[HN Gopher] Revisiting Stereotype Threat
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Revisiting Stereotype Threat
        
       Author : systemstops
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2024-12-19 18:08 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.speakandregret.michaelinzlicht.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.speakandregret.michaelinzlicht.com)
        
       | peterldowns wrote:
       | Unsurprising. Although this is the first time I can recall
       | reading a psychologist accept culpability for the field's bad
       | "science" over the last twenty years. Have any of the
       | "anthropology of science" researchers published an explanation of
       | that yet?
        
         | aprilthird2021 wrote:
         | Everyone says "unsurprising" after the replication fails. Idk,
         | this was a really popular theory that lots of people believed.
         | I doubt you were all so confident back in the heyday of this
         | social science phenomenon.
         | 
         | If tomorrow, they say "growth mindset" is also a non-replicable
         | phenomenon, will HN be full of smug people saying "I knew it
         | all along, lol!"
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | That's just a heterogeneous population with selection bias.
           | Everyone is always convinced because when they're disproven
           | they stay silent. These days prediction markets allow people
           | to convert beliefs to money so it becomes not very convincing
           | when everyone manages to be perfect at predicting things and
           | is always complaining they aren't making enough money while
           | simultaneously giving up the chance at doubling their bet on
           | a sure shot.
           | 
           | Combine that with people upgrading uncertainty to certainty
           | post-hoc when debunking comes out and you have these
           | entertaining things. Overall, I'm glad you called it out.
           | Once I wished I had a profile for people's past guesses to
           | see how actually good they are and now I have Manifold,
           | Kalshi, and Polymarket.
        
           | Hasu wrote:
           | I'm not a research psychologist, but my understanding is that
           | growth mindset is already non-replicating.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | Even if you did suspect something was wrong you were careful
           | because science said otherwise. Calling this wrong in public
           | would feel like saying a big rock falls faster than a small
           | rock - something else that seems obvious but science has
           | disproved. And so the only one loudly saying this was bunk
           | where the right wing crackpots (the reasonable people on the
           | right side were much quieter about it because they don't like
           | to argue with science even though it went against their bias)
           | - the right wing crackpots were on this only because the left
           | wing embraced it as a science that confirmed their bias.
           | Unfortunately in this cast the conspiracy was true and so the
           | crackpots won (even though they have no understanding of the
           | real reasons it is false and it doesn't seem to have been a
           | conspiracy).
           | 
           | Let this be a lesson: even if something seems like science
           | and it confirms you bias - that doesn't mean it is true. You
           | should look closer at things you embrace than things you
           | reject lest you embrace a lie.
        
             | mistermann wrote:
             | I'm a rather reasonable "on the right" person and arguing
             | about science is literally my hobby, there are few funner
             | things in the world imho.
        
           | jdietrich wrote:
           | It might have been surprising at the time, but it's certainly
           | unsurprising in light of the replication crisis. We now know
           | that most findings don't replicate. Anyone who continues to
           | be surprised by _the most likely outcome_ needs to update
           | their priors.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Most_Published_Research_Fi.
           | ..
        
             | neuronexmachina wrote:
             | From your link:
             | 
             | >Biostatisticians Jager and Leek criticized the model as
             | being based on justifiable but arbitrary assumptions rather
             | than empirical data, and did an investigation of their own
             | which calculated that the false positive rate in biomedical
             | studies was estimated to be around 14%, not over 50% as
             | Ioannidis asserted.
        
           | saurik wrote:
           | FWIW, to me it is "unsurprising" as I can't remember the last
           | time a major psych study actually did replicate, and it seems
           | frankly like the entire field is in shambles. Does that mean
           | that I _knew_ before that this study in specific was false?
           | No. But, that isn 't what anyone means when they say
           | "unsurprising"! If you get to the end of a movie and all of
           | the major characters end up alive, and someone else seemed
           | _shocked_ by that fact, you might still explain to them that
           | that 's "unsurprising", even if you yourself got to feel the
           | thrill of uncertainty -- or even were concerned for a bit --
           | while you were watching.
        
           | mistermann wrote:
           | Be careful to not mistake "theory doesn't replicate" with
           | "theory is not true [in whole or in part]".
        
             | trhway wrote:
             | Would you expect the theory of non replicative theories to
             | be replicative or not?
        
               | mistermann wrote:
               | Expectations may be part of the problem.
        
           | philwelch wrote:
           | Stereotype threat was a "popular theory" because it fit the
           | social and political presuppositions that were fashionable at
           | the time. It's almost always wise to be skeptical of
           | political fashions or new social science findings even on
           | their own; new social science findings that match political
           | fashions are doubly questionable.
        
           | zahlman wrote:
           | My understanding is that "growth mindset" represents a
           | personal philosophy, not a testable hypothesis, so it would
           | be irrelevant here.
           | 
           | It was entirely reasonable to be skeptical of stereotype
           | thread when the concept was new, _a priori_ , An
           | "unsurprising" result is not necessarily one that someone
           | confidently believed. If I flip a coin, I'm not "surprised"
           | when the result is heads, nor when the result is tails.
        
             | eslaught wrote:
             | I could be wrong but I believe the idea is that the growth
             | mindset has measurable consequences. I.e., if you believe
             | you can grow, you will learn/adapt more effectively to new
             | situations and ultimately achieve more. It's an empirically
             | verifiable claim that is either true or false, and comes
             | with a pretty straightforward intervention (i.e., teaching
             | people that they can grow) if true.
             | 
             | Of course people may also adopt it as a personal
             | philosophy, but that's separate.
        
       | zahlman wrote:
       | Link for the claim that the results don't reproduce, without
       | Facebook tracking: https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/qctkp
       | 
       | > When Black students at Stanford University were told that a
       | test was diagnostic of intellectual ability, they performed worse
       | than their white counterparts. However, when this stereotype
       | threat was ostensibly removed--by simply framing the test as a
       | measure of problem-solving rather than intelligence--the
       | performance gap Black and white students nearly vanished.
       | 
       | Just reading this description motivates me to reject the study
       | out of hand. It's not plausible that university-level students
       | responded meaningfully differently to being told "this is a test
       | of problem-solving skill" versus "this is a test of intelligence"
       | because _it is commonly understood that problem-solving skill is
       | a major component of intelligence_.
       | 
       | >it also became the darling of the political left who now had an
       | answer to prevailing views of group differences held by the
       | political right. This is partly because shortly before stereotype
       | threat took its turn in the spotlight, Charles Murray and Richard
       | Herrnstein published The Bell Curve... the octogenarian Murray is
       | still considered a pariah, shouted down and deplatformed from
       | talks he tries to deliver at respectable colleges to this day.
       | 
       | The characterization of Murray's views in the last several years
       | has been grossly uncharitable and seems entirely disconnected
       | from his actual arguments. It's strange that the book is 30 years
       | old, but has seemed politically relevant for much less time than
       | that.
        
         | aprilthird2021 wrote:
         | Eh, I mean the stereotype being "activated" is that Black
         | people are less intelligent / have lower IQs, not that they
         | lack problem-solving skills.
         | 
         | Even the replication attempt had two scenarios:
         | 
         | 1 where women were told the test was to establish performance
         | levels on the test between men and women
         | 
         | 1 where they were told the test was a test of problem-solving
         | skill (or primed to disregard negative stereotypes before the
         | test).
         | 
         | So even the replication has the incorrect framing you worried
         | about. I tend to believe the problem wasn't this, but the way
         | the field was lax about sampling, methodology, etc. After all,
         | there were many stereotype threat studies, not just this one,
         | boasting similar results. And they didn't all use that framing.
        
         | rat87 wrote:
         | The characterization of Murray's views seem extremely accurate
         | and the fact that his book is still brought up despite being
         | disproved as racist trash decades ago is ridiculous
        
           | gotoeleven wrote:
           | This is a bizarre canard that is always presented whenever
           | this book comes up. How does it help anyone to pretend group
           | differences don't exist? We tried to turbo charge this make
           | believe with DEI for the past ten years and its been a
           | disaster for everyone except people selling DEI books and
           | seminars.
        
         | andrewflnr wrote:
         | Not to necessarily defend the study here, but I don't think
         | that's a good reason to dismiss the study out of hand. Words
         | themselves, the actual sounds independent of their technical
         | meaning, still have very strong, deep-rooted associations that
         | are hard to fight even if you've been educated. The subtext and
         | day-to-day use of "intelligence" and "problem solving skill"
         | are different, and color the way you think of them even if you
         | know they're technically synonymous (which, do note, they're
         | not quite). That association operates at the same deep level at
         | which the supposed effect works.
        
         | kens wrote:
         | Many years ago, long before "The Bell Curve", I spent way, way
         | too much time reading Murray's book "Losing Ground" (1984) and
         | going to the library to read the papers he referenced and
         | reading the papers those papers referenced and then the papers
         | those papers referenced. My conclusion was that his book is
         | junk. My second conclusion was that citations are like a game
         | of telephone and every time someone cites something, it changes
         | slightly, so don't trust anything until you get to a primary
         | source, and maybe don't even trust that. (This second
         | conclusion applies in general, not just to Murray.) My third
         | conclusion was that arguing online is a waste of time and
         | approximately nobody cares about actual facts.
        
       | runamuck wrote:
       | Executive Summary of Article: "new data now reveal what many of
       | us suspected for at least ten years: stereotype threat does not
       | replicate, and it does not undermine academic performance in the
       | ways we thought."
       | 
       | The Stereotype Threat: "individuals who are part of a negatively
       | stereotyped group can, in certain situations, experience anxiety
       | about confirming those stereotypes, leading paradoxically to
       | underperformance, thus confirming the disparaging stereotype."
       | for example, if you remind a woman of the "Women are bad at math"
       | stereotype, they will perform worse on a math test than if they
       | are not reminded of that stereotype.
        
       | verteu wrote:
       | Also interesting: p28 (labeled p470) of
       | https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/251524591881022...
       | ("Many Labs 2: Investigating Variation in Replicability Across
       | Samples and Settings") shows the results of attempting to
       | replicate 28 published psych results across many different
       | samples.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, "Stereotype Threat" is not one of the effects they
       | attempted to replicate.
        
       | underlipton wrote:
       | Putting on my contrarian hat: the studies he mentions seem to be
       | concerned with whether testing conditions affect stereotype
       | threat effects. Logically, they can't prove or deny the
       | phenomenon's existence, only whether testing conditions result in
       | changes to test outcomes that could track with interventions to
       | reduce stereotype threat. Much of what we know about how
       | behavioral effects of identity comes with the understanding that
       | the latter is something people carry with them, regardless of
       | local or recent events. If there's a problem with stereotype
       | threat as a concept, it's that it's positioned as a superficial
       | effector that can be manipulated easily, rather than the surface
       | level manifestation of complex interactions between self-
       | identity, personal values, and cultural expectations. Based on
       | the author's disclosure about his PhD thesis, he seems to be
       | someone who capitalized on the former characterization, so of
       | course he throws the baby out with the bathwater when it no
       | longer works for those purposes. We might be looking at an ass-
       | covering write-up.
       | 
       | >Let's play "Find the Lebowski quotes game" again!
       | 
       | So, yeah, I find this a deeply unserious blog post.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | He must throw the baby out with the bathwater - so far there is
         | no evidence for anything here. The only alternative is to rerun
         | the study, doing it correctly this time and then do a correct
         | analysis. Until then you need to say "I don't know" when asked
         | about this as that is all science allows. Maybe the rest of the
         | baby they are throwing out will replicate and thus is correct -
         | but nobody knows that and so we cannot say anything with
         | confidence right now.
         | 
         | I'm assuming you are not aware of studies not mentioned here
         | that replicate - I'm not in this field and so I would not know
         | where to look. I'm guessing that you also are not in this field
         | and are looking for some way to allow your bias to become true
         | despite these issues - but of course I might be wrong.
        
           | underlipton wrote:
           | Let me analogize. This is a blog post that claims that racism
           | isn't real. As proof, the author explains that none of the
           | studies that show a reduction in racism when you remind
           | people that Michael Jordan and Beyonce exist can be
           | replicated. Well, okay, sure. And the guy who earned a
           | doctorate with the thesis, "Does Playing Jackson 5 Make
           | People Less Racist?" might want to turn this into, "Racism
           | does not exist," as a way to distance himself from his own
           | terrible scholarship. (Also, did you find his Marvel
           | Cinematic Universe Easter Eggs?)
           | 
           | So, thus far, there is actually not enough evidence to throw
           | the, "Racism exists," baby out with the, "Do these
           | interventions affect racist belief?" bathwater. And since
           | we're second-guessing biases, it's super weird that you're
           | always in comment sections of (politically-charged) articles
           | concerning fields you're not in.
        
             | buttercraft wrote:
             | > This is a blog post that claims that racism isn't real.
             | 
             | No, it does not make that claim.
        
         | shermantanktop wrote:
         | I think that contrarian hat may include a no-true-scotsman
         | badge.
         | 
         | If stereotype threat is real, we should be able to have a
         | replicatable study result that confirms it, right? We're not
         | just limited to logical inference, I hope.
        
           | underlipton wrote:
           | If the studies are concerned with determining that stereotype
           | threat exists, sure.
        
       | whimsicalism wrote:
       | > Let's be honest: that last sentence was far too generous. Many
       | of us engaged in practices that, in hindsight, were borderline
       | dishonest. We abused experimenter degrees of freedom, engaged in
       | questionable research practices, p-hacked, massaged our data--you
       | pick the euphemism. In contrast, this new replication study
       | followed the most up-to-date best practices in psychological
       | science, eliminating room for flexibility in analysis or results
       | interpretation.
       | 
       | Exploiting researcher degrees of freedom remains unfortunately
       | extremely common. There needs to be some sort of statistical
       | vanguard in the ivory towers enforcing _real_ preregistration and
       | good analysis practices. Strict epistemic discipline is necessary
       | to do real science.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | The real problem is we have a lot of data. So it is easy to
         | shove it all into a computer and then see what comes out. This
         | is not a bad thing, but it isn't alone a result to publish it
         | is instead justification to do a real study on whatever thing
         | statistics turns up as a significant result to make sure it
         | really is when you properly isolate for that data.
        
           | parpfish wrote:
           | There's also the issue that in psych, everything is measured
           | through indirect proxies and most of the predictions will be
           | directional. That gives experimenters a LOT of wiggle room.
           | 
           | In physical science you can often directly measure a
           | phenomenon and have a theory that makes very specific
           | predictions
        
         | parpfish wrote:
         | early in my psych career, i was actively _encouraged_ to do
         | things that would be considered p-hacking or abusing degrees of
         | freedom. it was seen as a way to not let any data go to waste
         | and potentially  'show off' your cleverness/mathematical chops
         | in the methods section (anybody can just run an ANOVA like they
         | teach in the text book, but _look what I can do_ ).
        
       | trhway wrote:
       | It is interesting to see how those very sensitive to the Party
       | line and very skillful in political games people start to change
       | course - once they felt the political wind change with Trump and
       | Musk ascending.
       | 
       | That particular guy benefitted from peddling the darling theories
       | of the day (and naturally, given how Big Academia is, was part of
       | the oppression machine of anybody who dared to question those
       | darling theories) and now, once the opposite of those theories
       | became in political vogue, he rides the wave of dismantling them
       | rushing full speed ahead of the pack to declare his loyalty to
       | the new regime. Just like such people did in the old days of
       | USSR.
        
         | armoredkitten wrote:
         | This has been an ongoing situation since around 2010. The field
         | has been undergoing a huge shift in terms of re-evaluating
         | research practices and past findings. It genuinely has nothing
         | to do with national politics.
         | 
         | Also, the author is Canadian. So there's that, too.
        
           | trhway wrote:
           | >This has been an ongoing situation since around 2010.
           | 
           | Exactly. Yet the time to declare your change of heart is
           | somehow now :)
           | 
           | >Also, the author is Canadian. So there's that, too.
           | 
           | Search for his grants brings grants from US, he studied and
           | did PhD in US and still affiliated with NYU, and the major
           | and most valuable part of his network of academia connections
           | is US, his private foundation in USA, etc. If he isn't in-
           | line with the prevalent winds in US, he will be reduced to
           | nothing, just a professor in some Uni, not a renown
           | researcher with his own Wikipedia page, grants and
           | conferences in US, etc.
        
             | buttercraft wrote:
             | FFS, This is in response to _new data_ from a Registered
             | Replication Report that is still in preprint.
        
               | trhway wrote:
               | Yes, man, for 20+ years you are peddling some politically
               | favored theory, supposedly doing experimental studies (by
               | 2013 already getting at least $3.75M dollars in grants -
               | https://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/09/apf-grant ), and you
               | have no idea that your theory is total BS until suddenly
               | somebody else failed to reproduce yours and/or similar
               | studies, and that is exactly when political climate is
               | changing 180. It isn't a science, it is an ideology
               | department serving whatever political regime is in power
               | at any given moment.
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | Stereotype threat is just one of a million ways to say that the
       | position of Black people in US society, and women's position in
       | world society, is their own fault without assigning them any
       | guilt. Yes, they're worse off than everyone, but it's actually
       | _no one 's fault._ Its a bunch of mindset. Have you heard of the
       | law of attraction? This is the law of repulsion.
       | 
       | The fact is, all you have to do is allow women to own property
       | and inherit money for a few generations, and you'll see
       | differences inherited from their status in society ironed away.
       | If women own the place, they dictate the decisions. With the
       | descendants of US slaves, all you have to do is make a single
       | proportional effort to make up for the difference in the
       | inheritance that they got from the dozen generations that worked
       | for free, and the inheritances that the people get who profited
       | from that. That's it, all excuses gone. The reality is that black
       | people could actually be inferior to whites, most of us are of
       | about 20% descent from people so low on the human scale that they
       | would rape a slave.
       | 
       | Academic America: Instead of fixing the problem, which is
       | expensive, make a living off of mystifying it, which is
       | lucrative.
        
         | systemstops wrote:
         | Inherited wealth was actually pretty rate in the history of
         | this country, and is not as common now as many people think.
         | Generational wealth until recently did not exist for most
         | people.
        
           | whimsicalism wrote:
           | Large portions of existing wealth are inherited, most
           | estimates putting it somewhere in the 30-60% range of all
           | private wealth in the US
           | 
           | e: not sure why this gets a downvote
           | https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-
           | policy/2019/02/06/people-l...
        
         | tashi wrote:
         | I don't think that's what people have been taking away from the
         | idea of stereotype threat at all. I think it's been much more
         | likely for people to think, "Oh, instead of unchangeable
         | genetic traits, the difference in outcomes might someday be
         | reduced through deliberate social change.
        
       | taeric wrote:
       | I'm curious what the impact for most people's mindsets will be
       | here? I'm imagining that it relates to what many people consider
       | "talent" with kids? I know that has been an odd trend in some
       | states trying to get rid of "gifted" programs and such. I have
       | largely remained hopeful that that was not nearly as prevalent as
       | online represents.
        
       | akoboldfrying wrote:
       | >this study (still a preprint) was preregistered (meaning all
       | methods and analyses were specified before the data were
       | collected)
       | 
       | This is the way forward -- preregistered studies. That, together
       | with a promise from the publisher to publish the result
       | _regardless of whether the effect is found to be significant._
       | 
       | When you think about it, the incentives for publishing in science
       | have been wrong all along. The future will be different: It will
       | be full of null results, of ideas people had that didn't pan out.
       | But we'll be able to trust those results.
        
       | ckemere wrote:
       | I also have a high degree of skepticism about most psychology
       | research. I find it frustrating that the author of this piece
       | raises the issue of the imbalance of gender in STEM jobs as a
       | reason to doubt this particular study. There is nothing about
       | this failure-to-replicate that should allow us to conclude that
       | innate differences in math ability underly that imbalance.
       | 
       | I'd love others to read the replication report and explain why I
       | might be wrong?
        
         | ckemere wrote:
         | I mean come on - if there is a pervasive cultural insinuation
         | of gender differences in ability that leads to women
         | experiencing more test anxiety (I'm not saying there is, but
         | conditioning on that hypothesis) why would we expect a 20
         | minute PowerPoint to counteract 20 years of people's life
         | experience!?!?
        
         | anthuswilliams wrote:
         | The author doesn't claim that the imbalance is a reason to
         | doubt the study. His claim is that the imbalance is a reason to
         | doubt the claim that an underlying shift in cultural norms
         | explains why the results might have been valid in 2005 but
         | failed to replicate in 2024.
         | 
         | The author rightly observes that despite the undeniable shift,
         | women are still significantly underrepresented in STEM and
         | therefore that cannot explain the lack of replication. There
         | are still many other reasons besides innate differences that
         | might explain it.
        
       | armoredkitten wrote:
       | As someone who went through grad studies in the field, and who
       | has met Dr. Inzlicht in person before, I have to say I deeply
       | appreciate his perspective. He has consistently been humble when
       | facing the issues in the field, in ways that call even his own
       | previous research (following the typical practices of the day)
       | into question. The field as a whole has been undergoing a
       | reckoning, but Mickey has been one of the people who has
       | encouraged his fellow researchers not just to wag their fingers
       | at others, but also to look inward and reflect on their own
       | research practices. He has done so by showing humility and
       | acknowledging where his research has fallen short, and that
       | indicates to me a great deal of integrity.
       | 
       | It is sad to see stereotype threat being one of those findings
       | that seems less and less credible. I once worked as a research
       | assistant on a project related to stereotype threat, and I recall
       | the study going through several iterations because it all needed
       | to be _just so_ -- we were testing stereotypes related to women
       | and math, but the effect was expected to be strongest for women
       | who were actually good at math, so it had to be a test that would
       | be difficult enough to challenge them, but not so challenging
       | that we would end up with a floor effect where no one succeeds.
       | In hindsight, it 's so easy to see the rationale of "oh, well we
       | didn't find an effect because the test wasn't hard enough, so
       | let's throw it out and try again" being a tool for p-hacking,
       | file drawer effects, etc. But at the time...it seemed completely
       | normal. Because it was.
       | 
       | I'm no longer in the field, but it is genuinely heartening that
       | the field is heading toward more rigour, more attempts to correct
       | the statistical and methodological mistakes, rather than digging
       | in one's heels and prioritizing theory over evidence. But it's a
       | long road, especially when trying to go back and validate past
       | findings in the literature.
        
         | simpaticoder wrote:
         | _> It is sad to see stereotype threat being one of those
         | findings that seems less and less credible._
         | 
         | While I'm sure it is an honest statement, this sentiment is
         | itself concerning. Science is ideally done at a remove - you
         | cannot let yourself _want_ any particular outcome. Desire for
         | an outcome is the beginning of the path to academic dishonesty.
         | The self-restraint required to accept an unwanted answer is
         | perhaps THE most important selection criteria for minting new
         | academics, apart from basic competency. (Acadmeia also has a
         | special, and difficult, responsibility to resist broader
         | cultural trends that seep into a field demanding certain
         | outcomes.)
        
           | parpfish wrote:
           | I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a
           | particular outcome. It wasn't wrong that people were excited
           | about the prospect of a room temp superconductor a few months
           | back because people knew that if it were true good things
           | were possible. Insisting that you can't be excited by one
           | potential outcome from a study means that you'll only study
           | things that don't have the potential to help
        
             | simpaticoder wrote:
             | There is a useful distinction between "wanting" and
             | "attachment", but one usually turns into the other. Your
             | mention of room temp superconductors is ironic since they
             | have all been precisely attachment-driven frauds that start
             | with wanting.
        
       | jrmg wrote:
       | I have seen stereotype threat mentioned in educational contexts -
       | justifying the idea that, for example, it's important not to make
       | (deliberately or inadvertently) things like coding or engineering
       | seem stereotypically masculine. Usually the recommendations are
       | to ensure that if pictures of participants in classes or
       | extracurricular programs are shown in advertising, diverse groups
       | of people are pictured - or that if connections to popular
       | culture are made in educational materials they're diverse - for
       | example, don't make all your example coding projects about Star
       | Wars or football.
       | 
       | Anecdotally, I've seen with my own eyes, for example, girls
       | getting really into coding only after seeing it demonstrated by
       | enthusiastic women that they can see as role models in ways they
       | would not see men.
       | 
       | I guess this is a far broader thing than stereotype threat - but
       | I'm sure this larger thing is real. I fear that people who
       | themselves have stereotypes in mind about who 'should' be into
       | certain topics will use the demise or deemphasis of stereotype
       | threat to justify not making attempts to attract or be friendly
       | to kids who really could flourish in non-stereotypical fields -
       | to their and society's detriment.
        
       | disconap wrote:
       | I participated as a subject in a research study at Stanford
       | involving race and stereotype threat in the early 2000s. The
       | details are hazy, but the final readout was the distance I put my
       | chair to a group of chairs that students of a particular racial
       | group were supposed to sit. Evidently I put them in a position
       | that was contrary to the effect the researcher was seeking. She
       | intensely asked me a ton of questions about my background and
       | eventually tossed my data point for having lived in a racially
       | diverse area growing up. This wasn't a pre-inclusion criteria,
       | but a possible act of scientific fraud. Huge bummer since there
       | are honest people in every profession, and I imagine a lot of
       | them didn't succeed the way that the fraudsters thrived.
        
         | ndileas wrote:
         | I've had a similar experience in a long running survey. When I
         | gave the "wrong" answers, the interviewer asked a bunch of
         | questions and eventually told me to skip certain questions.
        
           | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
           | I had an experience like that where an education researcher
           | was attempting to prove that a certain style of teaching was
           | more effective. It involved a test measuring how much
           | students remembered from a conventionally-taught course taken
           | the year before; the researchers hoped to show that these
           | scores were low, and therefore that conventional teaching
           | methods were ineffective. I and another classmate aced the
           | test so the researcher accused us of cheating, even though
           | there was no incentive to cheat (the test wasn't used for any
           | grade, so if anything, the incentive was to save time by
           | leaving answers blank). We denied cheating, explained that
           | the course instruction had been very memorable, and proved it
           | by correctly answering followup questions on the spot.
           | Ultimately our high-scoring test results were discarded as
           | outliers and the hypothesis was successfully validated.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | This is partly the "psychology is the study of college
       | undergrads" problem. The original study was on Stanford students,
       | all of whom have already passed through a very selective filter.
       | That's not a group to extrapolate to the general population. Too
       | many psych studies are done on this convenient population.
       | 
       | It's great seeing the original author admit the problem.
        
         | istjohn wrote:
         | No it's not. This is a completely different thing.
        
       | parpfish wrote:
       | one of my stances has been that psychology comes up with wacky
       | unreplicable findings because there's no central organizing
       | theories for how 'the mind' works and everything is just very
       | black-box.
       | 
       | there are so many studies showing "X manipulation affects Y
       | outcome", but there's not even a hint of an attempt to explain
       | the mechanisms in a meaningful way (cognitive experiments are
       | usually better, but often still guilty of this).
        
       | gotoeleven wrote:
       | When I first heard about this stuff 20 years ago, it was being
       | presented as "The differences between groups A and B go away when
       | stereotype threat is removed" which is not what the original
       | paper says. The original paper claims that whatever difference
       | there is between groups A and B, it will be larger when measured
       | under the condition of stereotype threat which I guess is
       | plausible but much less interesting.
       | 
       | Part of the context of that time was that _The Bell Curve_ had
       | been published fairly recently and there was great desire to
       | disprove it and anyone doing that could count on lots of
       | attention and speaking fees. So the grift was to present
       | stereotype threat as this grand solution that could resolve all
       | racial differences.
        
       | foxbarrington wrote:
       | I was a psych major in undergrad, and did an experiment as a riff
       | on stereotype threat and got a small effect. I had the
       | participants solve brain teaser puzzles and the only difference
       | was introducing them as coming from 11th grade or graduate level
       | math. Undergrads did worse when they thought it was graduate
       | level.
        
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