[HN Gopher] Solaar is a Linux manager for many Logitech keyboard...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Solaar is a Linux manager for many Logitech keyboards, mice, and
       other devices
        
       Author : teekert
       Score  : 612 points
       Date   : 2024-12-18 19:57 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | s2l wrote:
       | This has been part of standard ubuntu repos for sometime. (apt
       | install solaar)
        
       | loufe wrote:
       | I've had an MX Master mouse (the "2" for maybe 8-9 years then the
       | "3" for 2-3 years now) and love it. Great performance, great
       | battery life, fantastic design and feel. On Windows I definitely
       | do not love the 150Mb program to manage it (surely sending a
       | torrent of unnecessary telemetry data back to Logitech.
       | 
       | I found Solaar a couple months ago after getting repeatedly
       | frustrated with bluetooth connection issues. It really is exactly
       | what it needs to be. Better interface than Logitech's, simple,
       | lightweight. Devs have my thanks; what a great show of the
       | goodness of open source software.
        
         | hnuser123456 wrote:
         | Logitech's might be a large download, but their Windows
         | software still seems far more optimized than Corsair's. After a
         | few days of uptime, Corsair's processes would have nearly an
         | hour of CPU time. Logitech's would have a couple minutes at
         | most. I replaced all my Corsair equipment with Logitech or
         | others after seeing that.
        
           | myself248 wrote:
           | Why does a mouse need an app, again?
        
             | dmonitor wrote:
             | reprogrammable buttons, adjustable dpi, customizeable
             | lights, etc
        
               | Phlebsy wrote:
               | Personally, I can understand that for initial setup but
               | hate that the way they're implemented means that it has
               | to always be running, and it frequently has to be
               | restarted to recognize the mouse correctly and apply
               | those settings. Many keyboards have figured this out and
               | don't require anything to be running to keep their
               | settings across multiple devices so it feels like
               | logitech will never improve in this area for the sake of
               | keeping their bloat/spyware on your machine.
        
               | egypturnash wrote:
               | One big thing your keyboards probably aren't doing that
               | mouse drivers are: different settings for different apps.
        
               | m463 wrote:
               | some mice can have the config saved onboard, then don't
               | require a driver.
        
               | Brian_K_White wrote:
               | we need qmk for mice
        
               | bloopernova wrote:
               | The ploopy mouse has QMK. Layers on a mouse are very
               | useful!
               | 
               | https://ploopy.co/mouse/
        
               | Brian_K_White wrote:
               | nice
        
               | MoreMoore wrote:
               | This looks awesome. Now I just hope somebody will someday
               | a 20 button version.
        
               | eikenberry wrote:
               | All of those should be state changes in the mouse.. IE.
               | the software should run to make the settings then exit.
               | There should be no reason for it to keep running.
        
               | db48x wrote:
               | They are.
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | Logitech's best kept secret is they do make a lightweight
               | version of their software for exactly that, it edits the
               | settings saved on the mouse and does absolutely nothing
               | else. It's only available for Windows though.
               | 
               | https://support.logi.com/hc/en-
               | ca/articles/360059641133-Onbo...
        
               | pxc wrote:
               | Logitech's mice can't do basic things like output a key
               | chord upon a button press using only what's available
               | onboard, sadly. The onboard capabilities are more limited
               | than they have to be, probably to drive people to G-Hub.
        
               | bdavbdav wrote:
               | They also allow you to manage the pairing of the unifying
               | receiver from web which is neat.
        
               | adzm wrote:
               | Wow, this is amazing!
        
               | MindSpunk wrote:
               | You don't need to keep it open, it just puts itself in
               | the auto run list on install and you can disable it from
               | launching. The configuration is just state changes on the
               | mouse
        
               | RonaldDump wrote:
               | Their best feature - and the one thing that I have most
               | missed for years after moving to Linux - is automatically
               | changing the active mouse profile based on the _focused
               | application_.
               | 
               | It's so powerful. Any custom buttons for any program,
               | without ever having to think about it. On Linux, without
               | it, I'm stuck manually cycling through the 3 on-board
               | profiles.
        
               | brokenmachine wrote:
               | I use Autohotkey in Windows to achieve that, because I
               | got sick of Logitech fairly regularly misdetecting the
               | current application (when it does that, you have to focus
               | a different app and then try again).
               | 
               | I just get the mouse to always use the same onboard
               | profile and send the higher F-keys that aren't on the
               | keyboard (F13-F24), and ahk detects those and does
               | whatever crazy stuff I can think up. I even have long-
               | press/short-press for some buttons set up. Works great.
               | 
               | There must be a way to do something similar in Linux.
        
             | juancb wrote:
             | Because there's a computer in your mouse and you need
             | software on your host computer to talk to and peogram the
             | mouse's computer.
             | 
             | That of course would make it optional like with most
             | programmable keyboards but then there's the need to manage
             | pairing via their wireless dongles and then it quickly
             | becomes necessary.
             | 
             | Outside of it all being intentionally proprietary I don't
             | see why they couldn't take an approach similar to VIA in
             | managing their devices. There's also prior work for
             | flashing microcontrollers from the web browser, I'm
             | thinking of ESP32s specifically.
             | 
             | https://www.caniusevia.com/
        
               | brokenmachine wrote:
               | Logitech devices are probably based on old code from
               | older devices before WebUSB was a thing.
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | To be able to program all the configurable buttons, and
             | upload the macros and settings to the profiles present on
             | the mouse itself, so you can use all the features of your
             | mouse, tailored to you, _even if you don't have the
             | software_ on the target device you're using your mouse.
             | 
             | Yes, Logitech's high end mice store settings themselves.
             | The app is just a programming interface. It sometimes does
             | per program profile switch, too, IIRC.
        
               | lsaferite wrote:
               | And yet, my keyboard can do almost (no per-program
               | switching) all of the same FROM A WEB PAGE. WebHID should
               | be all that's needed for advanced input devices. If you
               | want some sort of per-program profile switching, sure,
               | release a dedicated app that handles sending a special
               | HID command sequence to trigger a profile switch.
        
               | xboxnolifes wrote:
               | And if Logitech had a webpage to configure settings, HN
               | would be up in arms about not being able to configure
               | while offline.
        
               | Fnoord wrote:
               | Wooting has their utility offline and online. I guess it
               | uses WebHID.
        
               | lsaferite wrote:
               | If the webpage was required to be connected back to
               | Logitech to function, yeah, deservedly so. If, like Via,
               | it can run fully offline then all you'd need is to save
               | the page for offline use and that would be acceptable.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | WebHID would be sci-fi material in 2010. If you can
               | reduce the power requirement for the hardware, there's no
               | obstacle to embed it in a mouse.
               | 
               | Keyboard is infinitely more flexible since you can wire
               | it without much obstruction.
        
               | yndoendo wrote:
               | All programmable mice store their settings on the device
               | itself, like Roccat and Razer. A true programmable mouse
               | doesn't need software running in the background. A
               | configuration application that needs to continue running
               | is now just a background service running in user mode and
               | not a true configuration application.
               | 
               | Roccat user because of the size of the mouse is bigger
               | than others and all the buttons can be reprogrammed,
               | along with the wheel. No background software needed and
               | all configuration changes are OS independent.
               | 
               | Not a Logitech user because the wheel could not be
               | programmed to control the sound volume. Last time I tried
               | their products. Even contacted their support to verify
               | the wheel, most useful for controlling audio, is fixed to
               | page scrolling only.
               | 
               | Razer mice are too small for my hands and I feel like an
               | Eagle clawing at a minnow. At least they allow for fully
               | reprogramming all the buttons and wheel, unlike Logitech.
               | And you don't need background software for the
               | programming with it being OS independent after
               | programming.
               | 
               | Only bad part is that Roccat is no longer Linux
               | supported. The original developer that reverse engineered
               | stop supporting the products. Roccat also is like most
               | business and blows off 1st party support for Linux.
               | Windows VM is needed just to program the mouse, which
               | only done once.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | > because the wheel could not be programmed to control
               | the sound volume.
               | 
               | If that's your biggest gripe with Logitech, then I can
               | say they're pretty successful. Personally, I'd not prefer
               | to reach to my mouse just for volume, but everyone is to
               | their own.
               | 
               | > A true programmable mouse doesn't need software running
               | in the background.
               | 
               | Logitech Mice doesn't need the application to run in the
               | background. I'm using my G700's profiles (which I set
               | once under Windows) under Linux without any tools for
               | (checks notes) 14 years at this point.
               | 
               | > Windows VM is needed just to program the mouse, which
               | only done once.
               | 
               | How this is different from Logitech devices? It's
               | _exactly_ the same with Logitech.
        
               | vladvasiliu wrote:
               | Logitech G mice dont need the app, but regular ones do.
               | My Mx master 3s and Mx ergo reset to the default
               | sensitivity and button functions if I leave them alone
               | for a while.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | That's interesting, thanks for the information. I don't
               | use any apps with my M705s (yes, I have a couple). The
               | user I was replying to was giving examples of mice which
               | are in the same class with Logitech G series, this is why
               | I directly quoted my experience with G700.
        
               | fuzzfactor wrote:
               | >reset to the default sensitivity and button functions if
               | I leave them alone for a while.
               | 
               | I need to try that. Mine is USB wired with no battery.
               | 
               | I've got one of the lesser G USB 6-button "gaming" RGBs
               | that was unused for well over a year. Never did try any
               | Logi Windows apps or do any gaming either. Used as a
               | mild-mannered office mouse instead :)
               | 
               | A while back I started using it again, this time on a
               | Linux PC and it still glowed with the default pattern
               | which I had never changed. Fine by me.
               | 
               | Then started dual booting Windows 11 and all was well
               | until I connected to the internet, the Logitech firmware
               | on the mouse got autoupdated, and lights out :(
               | 
               | Still glows during POST but LEDs go out unless Windows
               | kicks it back on in some way or another.
               | 
               | You want it to do what it once was doing without an app?
               | Your Windows 11 may already be updated far enough itself
               | to give RGB control now.
               | 
               | Otherwise you can use the Logitech app.
               | 
               | Which doesn't have a Linux version.
               | 
               | Looks like mine needs a background app of some kind now
               | if I want glowing again. Oh well.
               | 
               | Still looking forward to trying Solaar when I get back to
               | that particular desktop :)
        
               | hnuser123456 wrote:
               | Some of the mice have a toggleable on-board memory mode,
               | where you can configure profiles that are saved on the
               | mouse. You may be able to change the default lighting
               | pattern back.
        
               | seritools wrote:
               | for Logitech G there is the Onboard Memory Manager, a
               | portable tool to just set up the onboard profiles. Since
               | they released it I've not had to use their normal
               | software anymore: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-
               | ca/articles/360059641133-Onbo...
        
               | vladvasiliu wrote:
               | Sure, Logitech "G" series mice are supposed to be
               | "gaming", but for a very long time I used them
               | exclusively for office work.
               | 
               | My first one was a g9x, followed by a g700s. Those may
               | look a bit "gamery", but I later had a g703 which was as
               | sober as they come.
               | 
               | And, even though it's not as critical for office use, I
               | found it very pleasant to have next to no lag on a
               | wireless mouse. I now have a mx master 3s, which has "ok"
               | wireless performance and is surprisingly nimble for its
               | size and weight. I can't complain about it while I use
               | it, but I immediately feel the difference when I switch
               | to a Logitech G Lightspeed or a friend's Razer with
               | whatever their equivalent technology is called.
               | 
               | And since these aren't _that_ expensive (the MX is
               | actually the most expensive mouse I 've ever had), this
               | tends to reinforce my considering them as full
               | competitors to logi's "office" line.
        
               | fransje26 wrote:
               | > To be able to program all the configurable buttons, and
               | upload the macros and settings to the profiles present on
               | the mouse itself, so you can use all the features of your
               | mouse, tailored to you
               | 
               | Yep. Definitely sounds like something requiring a 150 Mb
               | program to manage the complexity..
        
               | miki123211 wrote:
               | Some high-end mice and keyboard combos also support
               | features like fast computer switching, clipboard sync
               | etc.
               | 
               | Imagine you have both a desktop and a laptop, with your
               | laptop screen positioned below the display connected to
               | the desktop. You can make your Logitech mouse act as if
               | they were one device; if you slide past the top edge of
               | your laptop screen, both the mouse and the keyboard
               | switch over to the desktop.
               | 
               | You can even press ctrl+c on one device, move your mouse
               | to the other and press ctrl+v (with the same keyboard of
               | course), and it's going to do the right thing. I think
               | even drag and drop across computers works, at least in
               | some circumstances.
        
               | MoreMoore wrote:
               | That's pretty cool. Now I just wish they'd release a
               | wireless G600 with this capability. Best thing I ever
               | bought was an MMO mouse. It's incredibly useful for a lot
               | of use cases outside of MMOs.
        
               | ho_schi wrote:
               | USB-HID cares about that and the rest shall be done by
               | generic APIs through the operating-system.
               | 
               | I avoid therefore any peripheral devices which need
               | additional software.
               | 
               |  _Ducky_ provides DIP-Switches and keyboard shortcuts.
               | Perfect :)
               | 
               | And I didn't bricked it with a firmware update, which I
               | did with the K850. Because Logitech suffered so many
               | security issues.
        
             | newsclues wrote:
             | Exactly, the OS should have the functionality and UI.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | To be fair, it doesn't. I have Logitech mice and I have
             | never once installed an app for them. They work great just
             | with normal USB HID drivers.
        
             | happymellon wrote:
             | To pair the mouse with the Universal Receiver/Bolt dongle
             | rather than Bluetooth, and then to expose the other APIs
             | such as battery levels.
        
             | dmd wrote:
             | So your mouse driver can have AI in it, apparently.
             | https://www.logitech.com/en-us/software/logi-ai-prompt-
             | build...
        
               | fwn wrote:
               | > So your mouse driver can have AI in it, apparently.
               | 
               | Just to highlight: The offline installer (supposedly for
               | business environments) does not include AI. It can be
               | installed directly on top of the regular application.
               | 
               | https://prosupport.logi.com/hc/en-
               | us/articles/10991109278871...
        
             | dghlsakjg wrote:
             | It doesn't _need_ the app. You can use their stuff without
             | it.
             | 
             | If you want to use some of their more advanced features,
             | you need to use the app.
             | 
             | For example, I have it setup so that if my macbook is on, I
             | can push my cursor to the far left of my windows screen and
             | my mouse will automatically switch to the macbook bringing
             | along anything in the clipboard.
        
           | sebazzz wrote:
           | Bruce Dawson has a blog post about Corsair. Apparently their
           | processes constantly leak handles.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | > surely sending a torrent of unnecessary telemetry data back
         | to Logitech
         | 
         | To give Logitech some credit, there's an off switch for
         | "diagnostic data" right there in the settings.
        
           | bigfishrunning wrote:
           | If they want more credit, they should make it an _on_ switch
        
             | ghjfrdghibt wrote:
             | I think it's implicit that a switch has to be on/off. Do
             | you mean opt-in rather than opt-out?
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | Not parent, but yes.
               | 
               | A switch that must be turned on (opt-in), rather than a
               | switch that must be turned off (opt-out).
        
               | bdavbdav wrote:
               | That would imply there's a third, indeterminate state
               | prior to opting one way or another (which is the ideal
               | situation - ask on install with a non defaulted option)
        
               | loloquwowndueo wrote:
               | No, prior to opting the state is off. This is what opt-in
               | means.
               | 
               | Asking on install just gives room to implement a dark
               | pattern and trick people into opting in undesiredly
               | anyway.
               | 
               | Or you can just use Solaar :) and don't feel bad about
               | it, you already gave Logitech money for the freaking
               | mouse.
        
               | II2II wrote:
               | A reasonable third, and default, state could be collect
               | diagnostic data locally. The user can choose to send the
               | diagnostic data if they have issues with the device.
               | After all, the term diagnostic data implies that it is
               | being used for troubleshooting.
        
               | teddyh wrote:
               | A master programmer passed a novice programmer one day.
               | The master noted the novice's preoccupation with a hand-
               | held computer game. "Excuse me", he said, "may I examine
               | it?"
               | 
               | The novice bolted to attention and handed the device to
               | the master. "I see that the device claims to have three
               | levels of play: Easy, Medium and Hard", said the master.
               | "Yet every such device has another level of play, where
               | the device seeks not to conquer the human, nor to be
               | conquered by the human."
               | 
               | "Pray, great master", implored the novice, "how does one
               | find this mysterious setting?"
               | 
               | The master dropped the device to the ground and crushed
               | it underfoot.
               | 
               | And suddenly the novice was enlightened.
               | 
               | -- _The Tao of Programming_ , Geoffrey James
        
               | moogly wrote:
               | I think, today, that state is the "Remind me later'
               | button state.
        
             | shiroiushi wrote:
             | For even more credit, they should leave all the extra
             | telemetry and other crap out of the download, so it's only
             | a megabyte or so, instead of 150MB, and let people opt-in
             | to downloading that junk.
        
               | RussianCow wrote:
               | You're assuming most of that space is taken up by
               | telemetry software. 100MB of that could easily just be
               | the UI toolkit!
        
               | c0balt wrote:
               | iirc they shipped an electron app the last time I used it
               | on Windows. The 150 MB are likely just 30% Chrome, 40%
               | graphics (their UI is fancy and has images of connected
               | components) and, 10% bundled js code.
        
               | ChoGGi wrote:
               | Last time I looked at Corsair they had a DLL for each
               | device, it added up.
        
               | bb88 wrote:
               | What's wrong with using the UI the OS provides?
        
               | baby_souffle wrote:
               | Not cross platform, difficult to theme or style to
               | Logitech brand guidelines?
        
               | bb88 wrote:
               | Do the users care about that? Or just the management? And
               | mouse drivers aren't typically cross platform anyway,
               | right?
        
               | phatskat wrote:
               | Users: maybe, but probably not many of them.
               | 
               | Management absolutely cares, they have a whole design
               | guidebook why wouldn't they follow it??
               | 
               | And the drivers likely aren't cross-platform in the sense
               | of "the windows DLL is just dead code on a Mac", but the
               | UI of the software can be the same across platforms. The
               | executable is likely a tiny bit of platform-specific
               | launcher code and then cross-platform electron fun.
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | Because why wouldn't we embed the whole Chromium runtime
               | to show the user a couple of checkboxes?
        
               | phatskat wrote:
               | "It's cross-platform!" - someone good at selling to the
               | Logitech suits
        
               | pjerem wrote:
               | > they have a whole design guidebook why wouldn't they
               | follow it??
               | 
               | So the same question applies: yes they have a whole
               | design guidebook but why ? Does the users care ? My
               | opinion would be that most don't and that those who care
               | are horrified by all those apps with all their own
               | guidelines.
               | 
               | Computers used to be (and I'll be giving credits to old
               | windows for that) << once you learned the
               | system/ergonomics you only have to adapt to each
               | program's feature set >> and is now << relearn everything
               | on my app and btw it's not compatible with other apps
               | except our partners >>.
               | 
               | I mean as an example, we pretty much had a working
               | standard in how to discover features of a program (the
               | menu bar) and how to give back data to the user (saving
               | and opening files). Just knowing those patterns made you
               | apt to discover most of programs features.
               | 
               | I'm not saying it was perfect or intuitive, but it was
               | not hard and OSes could have improved that.
               | 
               | But we collectively ditched that for, it seems, easier
               | deployment on the web (which is not something Logitech is
               | concerned by, btw) and since there is no UI framework,
               | why not hire UI designers to write UI guidelines ? It'll
               | make marketing guys happy anyway.
               | 
               | I'm sorry I recognize that I'm a little salty on this
               | topic but I do feel like the industry stole something
               | important to the users, or at least if I'm honest, to me,
               | which is the basic knowledge of how to use a computer.
        
               | phatskat wrote:
               | Oh I want to be clear that I'm not defending the use of
               | the design guide in this context - I think style guides
               | are fine for certain things, but not necessarily desktop
               | apps like these. I get that it's Electron, and so in
               | theory the same components could be shared to their web
               | experience and to other installers etc but I don't know
               | if they do that.
               | 
               | I was one of those people who thought XP/ME went too far
               | (im a System 7 Stan tbh, but 98 was solid enough). And
               | then when Office got the ribbon I was so unhappy lol. I
               | don't like a lot of how MS has embraced trendy UI,
               | outside of windows phone which I actually really liked
               | (and that made sense, it was a system that didn't have
               | much to go on, and they weren't living up to any
               | expectations outside of "be different than Apple and be
               | better than Google". I will def be salty here because MS
               | had a great opportunity with windows phone and just
               | blundered it. For every solid idea they have, it feels
               | like they fumble 10000 other actually decent products).
               | 
               | I personally _really_ appreciate that Apple has largely
               | not changed the fundamentals of their OS in regards to
               | the dock and menu bar - sure the dock is "new" as of OSX
               | but that's going on what, 20 years old now? At least? And
               | the menu bar has been with us since always. Using native
               | MS apps in 11 and not having a visible File menu drives
               | me bonkers.
               | 
               | > I'm sorry I recognize that I'm a little salty on this
               | topic but I do feel like the industry stole something
               | important to the users, or at least if I'm honest, to me,
               | which is the basic knowledge of how to use a computer.
               | 
               | I feel this. For the company I work for, we have an A11y
               | group that is comprised of representatives from different
               | departments (across engineering, product, marketing, and
               | design) that meets regularly. Our component designs focus
               | on accessibility, discoverability, and usability. If we
               | are going to say "well we want a blue button with a drop
               | shadow" instead of whatever the browser and OS do, fine,
               | I'm going to make sure it's still USABLE and accessible
               | dammit. /rant
        
               | happymellon wrote:
               | That would be great if it were cross platform.
               | 
               | I use Solaar because there wasn't a Linux application.
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | To be honest I would be more inclined to install their
               | driver if it did not include ugly Logitech branding and
               | respected a bit more the OS it runs on. I don't care
               | about cross platform UI in an application for mouse
               | settings, it's simply not my problem. It has 1 window,
               | FFS. How hard is it to use native toolkits?
        
               | RussianCow wrote:
               | To be fair, most people just absolutely don't care about
               | this stuff as long as it does its job, so it makes sense
               | for them to use a cross-platform toolkit here.
               | 
               | You have to remember that, besides the extra engineering
               | effort, having a separate, native UI for each platform
               | also increases the support burden for dealing with people
               | having issues with the program. Companies the size of
               | Logitech bend over backwards to reduce their support
               | costs, so it shouldn't be surprising that they opted for
               | the path of least resistance here.
        
           | AyyEye wrote:
           | An off switch that will get ignored for some data, re-enabled
           | on some future update anyway, and forgotten about next time
           | you reinstall.
        
         | orev wrote:
         | This says it's for Linux, and a search doesn't find a Windows
         | version. Are you using this on Windows?
        
           | loufe wrote:
           | I suppose that could have been clearer. I use Windows on my
           | desktop and Linux on my laptop.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | I never had Bluetooth connection issues with my Logitech
         | hardware, but I wanted mine to work without an OS (i.e. with a
         | Bolt receiver).
         | 
         | Solaar handled the pairing in 30 seconds flat, and I can't be
         | happier. The only thing is, since Bolt doesn't look like proper
         | BT to the OS, battery levels can only be monitored from Solaar
         | itself.
        
           | throwaway314155 wrote:
           | What's a Bolt receiver?
        
             | resoluteteeth wrote:
             | Bolt is logitech's newer wireless protocol (with devices
             | using a dongle rather than bluetooth) that's supposed to be
             | more secure than the older one.
        
               | seaal wrote:
               | I think the real highlight of the Bolt receiver is being
               | able to pair up to 6 devices with just a single receiver.
        
               | selcuka wrote:
               | The old unifying receiver was also able to pair up to 6
               | devices.
        
               | teekert wrote:
               | I think the real highlight is that it is not backwards
               | compatible. So I now have an MX Keys and an MX Master 3s,
               | both on their own dongle.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | IIUIC, Unifying receiver used a completely different
               | protocol, but Bolt protocol is just supercharged
               | Bluetooth with some low latency and encryption sauces on
               | top.
        
               | wodenokoto wrote:
               | Doesn't bluetooth handle many, many more devices?
        
               | kristjank wrote:
               | It also introduces a ton of lag, especially when more
               | than a single device and some distance is involved (Mouse
               | + Keyboard + Headphones makes my headphones cut out
               | sometimes)
        
               | liotier wrote:
               | Bluetooth MIDI keyboard + Bluetooth headset = audio
               | glitches. Disappointing.
        
               | Ghoelian wrote:
               | Sounds nice, except so far I have only one Logitech
               | device that works with the bolt receiver, which is the MX
               | Master 3s.
               | 
               | I also have an MX vertical which uses the unifying
               | receiver. Then I also have a pro x superlight, which has
               | yet another receiver. I believe they call that one
               | lightspeed or something.
               | 
               | So now I have 3 separate adapters for 3 devices, all of
               | which theoretically support pairing multiple devices (I
               | think the lightspeed only does 3 though).
        
             | nine_k wrote:
             | A type of USB wireless receiver:
             | https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/logi-bolt-
             | usb-r...
        
             | akira2501 wrote:
             | Bluetooth Low Energy with some Logitech sauce added into
             | it. Apparently encrypted and marketed for use in contexts
             | where FIPS level security would be required.
        
               | shim__ wrote:
               | It's bluetooth 5 with more tx power as far as I
               | understand
        
               | Ghoelian wrote:
               | According to their website(1), the bolt is BLE, and the
               | unifying receiver used a proprietary 2.4GHz radio signal.
               | 
               | (1) https://support.logi.com/hc/en-
               | us/articles/1500012483162-Wha...
        
         | adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
         | My one gripe with Logitech mice is that none of their "office"
         | mice support high refresh rate polling.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | Also they've been very slow to adopt optical switches
           | compared to other brands, a handful of their high end gaming
           | mice have them, but the vast majority of their range still
           | uses the same old mechanical switches that tend to start
           | erroneously double clicking after a while.
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | If your mouse starts double clicking, play a game of Quake
             | 3 for an hour, or just click a bit more aggressively for
             | the next hour. It clears the problem, per my experience.
             | 
             | What I understood is, the switches on these mice (I have
             | G700) are practically abuse-proof. However, they don't like
             | to be used lightly and start to glitch possibly from fine
             | dust. Using the switches more aggressively cleans them up.
             | 
             | My first generation G700 still works great.
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | That sounds like a job for contact cleaner, assuming it's
               | possible to non-destructively get a tube next to the
               | switches.
               | 
               | I'm about to open my second bottle. My first bottle is
               | from the 1990's.
        
               | homebrewer wrote:
               | No, it's a job for a sewing needle or a toothpick.
               | Logitech switches can be temporarily fixed by
               | disassembling the switch and adjusting the contact plate
               | inside because it gets bent out of shape and stops
               | registering the clicks correctly. But it's easier (and
               | more reliable) to replace them with higher quality
               | alternatives while you're in there.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | The G700 in question registers clicks correctly for 14
               | years at this point. The problem in my case is very light
               | clicks and dust ingress to said switches. I have 10+ year
               | old M705 mice which doesn't have any switch problems.
        
               | homebrewer wrote:
               | Their switches are just crap. They use Omron switches
               | mostly due to their low cost, even on supposedly "high-
               | end" mice. People routinely replace them with better
               | alternatives (e.g. TTC Gold or Kailh, but there are lots
               | of them) and get years of heavy usage after that without
               | any problems. The switches can be obtained on aliexpress,
               | you do need a soldering iron though.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | I mean, if a mouse is working for 10+ years for 8 hours a
               | day (M705) or for 14 years for 2-3 hours a day (G700)
               | without any major problems, I wouldn't call that switches
               | _crap_.
               | 
               | But that's only me, of course.
        
               | ComputerGuru wrote:
               | It's not just a soldering iron needed. I replaced the
               | switches on my 17-year-old Logitech MX Revolution and on
               | a newer Performance MX and the old switches are
               | completely impossible to remove from the PCB without
               | snipping away at them and a lot of (careful) force.
               | However I can say that the result was worth it, no more
               | phantom double-clicks. Mouse itself was fine.
               | 
               | Maybe for some of the newer mice it's an easier ordeal,
               | though.
        
             | XajniN wrote:
             | The issue is actually the static electricity buildup in the
             | plastic somewhere. It doesn't happen if the air is humid
             | enough.
             | 
             | So, just turn off the mouse and blow in it a few times. It
             | will work normally for a few days after that.
             | 
             | I found this solution on approximately the 12th page of a
             | Google search ~9 years ago. Every other solution was wrong.
        
             | ploxiln wrote:
             | The left-click switch on my Logitech G305 started
             | glitching-out after a couple years, particularly noticeable
             | when trying to drag something, the drag would drop randomly
             | in the middle. Disappointing to only last a couple years.
             | 
             | I found replacement switches for $10 on amazon, pre-wired
             | with little plug, easy enough to install with just a micro-
             | screwdriver, no soldering. This problem is common enough
             | that there is a good selection of different switch
             | brands/types available. Fantastic. Not disappointed at all
             | anymore, honestly.
        
               | doubled112 wrote:
               | I also have a G305 where the left click button wore out.
               | 
               | I removed a switch from the Pi 400 desktop kit mouse I
               | had laying around and replaced it with that.
               | 
               | Upgraded the slider pads while I had everything apart.
               | These actually made more of a difference than I
               | anticipated.
               | 
               | Virtually brand new, although amuses me that left and
               | right click sound different now.
        
           | nextos wrote:
           | With the Linux kernel, USB power savings are also annoying on
           | Logitech devices. If you set everything on USB bus to
           | powersave, their mice and keyboards will go to sleep every
           | few seconds unless there's continuous activity.
           | 
           | I have experience with Dell and Apple keyboards on Linux, and
           | they don't suffer from this issue. The problem is not
           | terrible, but requires a special udev rule to exclude them
           | from powersaving, which is annoying.
        
         | nox101 wrote:
         | IIRC I installed the Logitech software in a VM, programmed the
         | the mouse, deleted the VM.
         | 
         | All I wanted to do is turn off the rainbow LEDs
         | 
         | Next time I get a new mouse I'll try Solaar.
        
           | beAbU wrote:
           | Sadly the MX family of mousen need the Logitech Software for
           | customisation. It's not saved on the mouse, so if Logi
           | Options is not running the mouse operates in default state,
           | with no custom button mappings, etc.
        
             | SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
             | I've used the logitech g305 for at least 6 years now, and
             | thankfully that one lets you write a profile to the chip on
             | the mouse.
        
             | gosub100 wrote:
             | it works fine for me on windows, only annoyance is google
             | maps, switching to street view, one wheel rotation unit
             | acts like 15, so switches back and forth uncommanded to
             | street mode and out
        
         | kreelman wrote:
         | Awesome. Thanks for the info here. I have a couple of useful
         | Logitech peripherals too. It should be quite useful.
        
         | 0points wrote:
         | May I suggest you use the bolt receiver instead of bluetooth,
         | and you will have a much more reliable connection.
        
           | jwr wrote:
           | That might be true for Windows, on Mac OS I get perfectly
           | reliable connections (years of usage with multiple mice) with
           | Bluetooth. And I don't have to use any stupid dongles.
        
           | ninkendo wrote:
           | Using Linux with an MX Master 3S, I see noticeable lag
           | sometimes when moving the mouse cursor around when using the
           | bolt receiver. Using regular Bluetooth gives me no issues.
        
       | schainks wrote:
       | Been using this for years, works exactly as advertised, no
       | issues. Thank you Solaar team for your work and dedication to
       | this useful project!
        
       | brocket wrote:
       | This saved my butt when I lost my mouse dongle and only had an
       | Ubuntu instance available at the time. I was able to pair my
       | mouse to the same dongle my keyboard used and have been using the
       | software ever since without issue. Thank you!
        
         | Joel_Mckay wrote:
         | The mouse buttons tend to go long before the keyboard, but
         | wireless HID devices tend to be a consumable for most people
         | that use their computer a lot.
         | 
         | We issue the wireless keyboards/mice kit as it is cheaper than
         | swapping a proprietary keyboard in your laptop, and less likely
         | to give users an RSI (really not funny if you are a Jr and have
         | to learn this the painful way.) =3
        
           | nemomarx wrote:
           | why not a corded one, if you'll always be using it with a
           | laptop?
        
             | Joel_Mckay wrote:
             | In general, for mobile these can get broken up rather
             | quickly, and increase probability of pulling a laptop off a
             | table.
             | 
             | For servers and desktop towers, a cabled solution is more
             | secure... and never runs out of batteries. YMMV =3
        
         | gessha wrote:
         | Yooo, I've been so frustrated with Logitech! I have an MX
         | Mechanical Mini keyboard and MX Ergo mouse. For some reason
         | they don't pair to the same dongle because the dongles are
         | different and not interchangeable. In addition, whatever dongle
         | is plugged into the right USB-A port of my laptop always lags
         | for some reason. Does Solaar solve those issues?
        
           | tecleandor wrote:
           | Solaar mostly changes configuration and helps pairing
           | devices, but it's not part of the drovers, so it might not
           | help you. Anyway I dump some info about dongles here just in
           | case, if you find your devices are compatible you might use
           | Solaar to reset the pairings.
           | 
           | IIRC, there are three types of dongles: the old basic ones,
           | that only work with one particular device, the not-that-old
           | "unifying" dongles (they have a red logo with a star or ray
           | of light), and the new ones that are called "bolt" (green
           | logo with a bolt in it).
           | 
           | I have mostly experience with the "unifying" receivers. Those
           | can pair to any "unifying" compatible device, and keep
           | connections with up to 6 devices. Bolt dongles work similarly
           | but with better encryption.
        
           | jerkstate wrote:
           | I've found that using a short usb extension cable with those
           | wireless dongles, rather than plugging them directly into the
           | computer, works loads better and fixed "lag" issues for me.
           | Maybe some kind of EMF interference?
        
             | tguvot wrote:
             | there is an interference from usb to 2.4ghz devices
        
             | WhyNotHugo wrote:
             | Also, try using a USB2 port instead of a USB3 one.
             | 
             | USB3's high speed produces EM inference with some
             | receivers.
        
             | Lord-Jobo wrote:
             | I can partially confirm: 2.4ghz, or at least the common USB
             | mouse implementation, is very susceptible to interference,
             | it's sent me down a few wild rabbit holes with my Basilisk
             | v3
        
             | ssl-3 wrote:
             | Same thing helps with USB Zigbee interfaces that use
             | 2.4GHz.
             | 
             | It seems most-useful to make sure it is only a USB 2 cable,
             | without the extra USB 3 data lines.
             | 
             | (USB 3 makes a ton of noise at ~2.4GHz. They could have
             | spread out emissions and dialed them down, but they stuck
             | them in the same trash band that microwave ovens [and mouse
             | dongles] use because... well, it's cheaper and easier that
             | way.]
        
           | smallerize wrote:
           | I had this happen when the dongle is a little loose in the
           | port. Solved lag with a couple of dongles by sliding a tiny
           | bit of paper in alongside it.
        
         | bdavbdav wrote:
         | If you ever need to do this in future, Logitech have a web only
         | tool that uses web serial to pair the receiver.
        
       | prmoustache wrote:
       | Pardon my ignorance but why would you need an app to manage
       | keyboards and mice in the first place? Aren't they supported out
       | of the box by generic drivers?
        
         | dandellion wrote:
         | I used to have a Logitech mouse that allowed you to reconfigure
         | some buttons to use shortcuts and things like that. Plus it
         | lets you see if the battery is running low, which I don't think
         | the out of the box drivers do. But for basic mouse use you
         | don't need it.
        
         | Hemospectrum wrote:
         | Some of them have software controls for hardware behavior (like
         | optical sensor polling rate and scroll wheel clutch mode) that
         | no OS has built-in support for, because these features are not
         | part of the USB HID standard.
        
         | pknomad wrote:
         | Fair question.
         | 
         | In general, custom configuration on both mice (DPI, refresh
         | rate, etc) and keyboards (tactile response settings [See
         | https://wooting.io/], hot binds, etc).
         | 
         | It's a nice to have (almost to the point of necessity)
         | especially when you go to LANs and need a consistent way to
         | load your settings on a computer that's not yours.
        
         | Joel_Mckay wrote:
         | In most cases, most usb wireless hid-devices auto-bind on most
         | linux distros, but some models of mice/keyboards do require
         | wireless pairing after a battery change (they may or may not be
         | Bluetooth.)
         | 
         | It is an "install if needed" utility if your mouse seems dead
         | after a battery change or wireless power cycle. =)
        
         | rostigerpudel wrote:
         | Most Logitech devices have settings for particular parameters
         | that are not covered by generic drivers. E.g on my MX Master, I
         | can set what events the buttons (it has 6) will generate. My
         | K810 has borked function keys (they trigger special events
         | instead of just being good old F1). You can switch these back
         | to standard function using software. Edit: typos
        
         | rostigerpudel wrote:
         | Also, working Linux software to pair new devices with unifying
         | receivers is great to have.
        
         | dmm wrote:
         | You can attach multiple devices to a single dongle using this
         | app.
        
         | skyyler wrote:
         | They are supported out of the box by generic drivers!
         | 
         | But most Logitech devices have settings that can be changed.
         | This allows you to change them.
         | 
         | Using this software, I disabled tap to click on my K400 Plus's
         | trackpad. Super useful.
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | Essentially Solaar is open source interface to few _extra_
         | features (exposed as application custom hid use pages) of the
         | Logitech  "HID++" stack (aka Logitech "dongle", sometimes also
         | combined with bluetooth support on the actual device).
         | 
         | Consider this screenshot[1] of additional options on Logitech
         | trackball + ofc pairing control
         | 
         | [1] https://usercontent.irccloud-
         | cdn.com/file/2cZcZiNk/image.png
        
         | Brian_K_White wrote:
         | No, all features are not exposed by the generic drivers. And
         | the extra features aren't just "who cares" goofy things.
         | 
         | For instance, my mouse has a wheel which is also the middle
         | button. To press the middle mouse button, you click the wheel
         | as if it were a button.
         | 
         | It also has another little middle button right in line with the
         | wheel. That other button does not generate any scan codes or
         | hid events.
         | 
         | All that button does is toggle the detent on/off for the wheel.
         | It's effects are entirely within the mouse and does not talk to
         | the host. Does not generate any mouse events or xev events or
         | hid or scancodes etc.
         | 
         | The wheel detent toogle thing is, the wheel has some mass to
         | it, and if the detent is off ,then the wheel can be flicked and
         | it will spin freely for some time by inertia. This is great for
         | zipping up or down in a long document.
         | 
         | But it also means that in free-wheeling mode, the wheel is
         | always generating wheel movement events, since it's always
         | moving. If you so much as look at it funny it moves a little,
         | let alone actually intentionally handling and moving the mouse.
         | 
         | So mormally you want the detent mode on so that the wheel does
         | not spin freely.
         | 
         | Having the middle mouse button be the wheel is extremely
         | agrevating to me, because even in detent mode I can't press the
         | middle button without also scrolling the wheel at least a
         | little at the same time, except with annoying great care. It
         | reeeeely screws up cad work.
         | 
         | Luckily, the mouse allows you to swap those two functions
         | around. You can make it so that you click the wheel to toggle
         | the wheel between detent and freewheel, and use the button as
         | the middle mouse button.
         | 
         | Like I said, whichever button is acting as the detent-toggle,
         | that button does not generate HID events. So you can't do this
         | button remapping the normal way like you might swap left &
         | right buttons for instance.
         | 
         | The official Windows software talks to the mouse and
         | reconfigures something inside the mouse, via some special
         | protocol of it's own.
         | 
         | Solaar does the same thing.
         | 
         | That is just one tiny example that isn't "control the rgb
         | lights", there are others.
         | 
         | Actually even controlling the rgb lights is a real issue too.
         | 
         | I also have a keyboard that I wanted because it is mechanical
         | and low profile and TKL layout (ten-key-less, full keyboard and
         | edit/arrow blocks, but just no 10-key to the right of that.),
         | and wireless including bluetooth so I don't need a dongle with
         | my laptop normally, but still able to be used in bios/uefi
         | because it comes with a usb receiver as well as supporting
         | bluetooth.
         | 
         | That thing is pretty good in all those aspects, but it also has
         | ^%$%#%% rgb lights, and the firmware in the keyboard defaults
         | to a continuous disco show of changing colors. It's completely
         | ridiculous.
         | 
         | You need to use the software to shut the damned lights off, or
         | really not merely off but make them function just as normal
         | backlights.
         | 
         | I'm not a gamer and do not want rgb lights, but I do want
         | everything else about that keyboard, so a non-gamer needs an
         | rgb gamer keyboard light control.
         | 
         | It has to do it's thing on every power cycle too. The setting
         | isn't saved in the keyboard, the software has to perform the
         | action over and over, either everytime the pc boots or every
         | time the keyboard loses power or every time the keyboard goes
         | to sleep and wake, I don't remember exactly which. I don't use
         | that keyboard any more. And that api is not exposed through
         | normal HID. The special software has to talk via it's special
         | interface.
         | 
         | So that's another example.
        
           | nosrepa wrote:
           | G502
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | Those are goofy "who cares" things, though. Doesn't mean you
           | are wrong to want them, just they are very very niche use
           | cases which almost nobody else is going to want.
        
             | mardifoufs wrote:
             | Is that why those mice sell well? Because no one cares
             | about those features? Sure, they might be rarer but not as
             | rare that you think they are just looking at the Amazon top
             | selling charts.
        
             | Brian_K_White wrote:
             | Wanting a middle mouse button that can be clicked without
             | scrolling the wheel is not goofy.
             | 
             | It's the most basic function of a button that you can press
             | it, and it alone.
             | 
             | And I don't know how many more times I could have repeated
             | that I wanted the control over a goofy feature only to
             | disable it. The only way to make that into something
             | dismissable is by saying "you should either just enjoy the
             | 24/7 disco light show or use some other keyboard"
             | 
             | Both are ridiculous invalid inconsiderate & ignorant. No
             | one gets to tell anyone else that. It's perfectly
             | reasonable to want a mechanical keyboard, or tenkeyless
             | layout, or bios functionality, or bluetooth, and not rgb
             | multicolor flashing lights. And it's perfectly valid to
             | have landed on some particular model that is available that
             | hits almost all the tickboxes one cares about and just have
             | some particular thing that needs to be changed somehow.
             | 
             | And all this whole thread answering the parent question is
             | just explaining why the software exists and the fact that
             | the normal driver interface does not handle these aspects
             | of driving the hardware.
             | 
             | Why in the world would you even care? What in the world is
             | even the point of hearing that explaination of a simple
             | technical thing, and trying to say "that's why you need it?
             | so you don't need it then"? Like in what way does this
             | affect you even the slightest?
             | 
             | Where does that instinc come from? It sure is common
             | though.
        
       | CoastalCoder wrote:
       | Since we're on the topic of Logitech keyboards, does anyone know
       | of a _wired-only_ keyboard that has the same feel as the
       | "Logitech MX Keys S Wireless"?
       | 
       | I love this keyboard's feel, but I need to switch to wired-only
       | for $reasons.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | If you can find mechanical switches you like that is your best
         | option. Lacking that, nothing stops you from ripping out the
         | electronics and putting in the controller from a mechanical
         | keyboard. It would be a lot of work to trace the circuit board
         | and figure out where to jump in (and what to cut out), but any
         | mechanical keyboard controller should work (QMK seems to be the
         | most popular today)
        
           | Dennip wrote:
           | Razer and Cherry both have low profile switches, apparently
           | Kailh are also low profile.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | You seem to not have read/understood OP's problems. He
             | stated mechanical switches are not what he wants. Now if
             | you can suggest switches with a membrane feel that would be
             | helpful - I'm not aware of any but I don't know everything.
        
               | Dennip wrote:
               | I figured that if they have the same feel as the
               | membrane, them being mechanical is not relevant, as OP
               | never gave a veto on mechanical options. I looked up the
               | estimated travel and actuation pressures for those
               | offerings in comparison to the Logitech.
        
         | jdhawk wrote:
         | It has PerfectStroke keys, so maybe the K740?
        
           | CoastalCoder wrote:
           | Thanks for the tip. There might be two issues with that
           | particular model:
           | 
           | (1) It's out of production AFAICT, and (2) one thing I really
           | appreciate about the MX Keys is the indented key caps.
           | 
           | IIUC, if I'm willing to put together my own keyboard, I can
           | ensure it's wired-only and I can have the key caps that I
           | like.
           | 
           | The only remaining challenge at that point (I think) is
           | finding switches with a similar feel. This is the part that's
           | tripped me up in the past:
           | 
           | I've bought a few switch testers (e.g., [0]), but all of the
           | switches I tried were _way_ more clicky than I wanted. I
           | really like the travel-distance, gentle landing, and
           | relatively quiet action of the MX Keys.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZK6LKZL
        
           | CoastalCoder wrote:
           | Thanks for the tip about PerfectStroke keys, btw.
           | 
           | Based on [0], it sounds like what I'm looking for is
           | something like "fake PerfectStroke" keys.
           | 
           | [0] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Logitech_PerfectStroke
        
         | ZeWaka wrote:
         | Could you just disable the bluetooth chip? Depends on the
         | specific reason, I suppose.
        
           | CoastalCoder wrote:
           | Interesting idea.
           | 
           | If a keyboard has both wired-USB _and_ some wireless
           | technology, it 's conceivable that physically disabling the
           | wireless module(s) would be allowable.
           | 
           | I guess there are two possible hurdles: (1) getting
           | permission, and (2) finding a keyboard in which I can disable
           | the wireless module without causing too much havoc with the
           | rest of the electronics and/or with the firmware.
        
           | xuhu wrote:
           | AFAIK the keyboard in question only uses USB for charging. It
           | can't send keys over the wire.
           | 
           | That said, before getting the MX keys I bought a Dell 7440
           | keyboard on ebay for $20, fastened it on top of a 6mm clear
           | acrylic plate with M3 screws, along with a Teensy chip
           | running kbd firmware:
           | 
           | https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-USB-Laptop-
           | Keybo...
        
         | hommelix wrote:
         | I'm happy with a Cherry G84 compact wired keyboard (G84-4100).
         | Maybe it helps...
        
       | bnycum wrote:
       | Been using Solaar for a few years with a Logitech K400 keyboard
       | with the built-in touchpad. Running on a Raspberry Pi connected
       | to my TV. No issues and works very well. Have never even
       | connected to Logitech's software on a Mac or Windows.
        
       | mastazi wrote:
       | Thanks to Solaar I hot my F1-F12 keys back on a Logitech keyboard
       | that defaults to requiring Fn to use those (on Mac/Win you can
       | change this using an app by Logitech). It's been working well for
       | a long time. I suggest getting it from their own ppa because the
       | version in your Linux distro might be pretty old
        
         | nakedneuron wrote:
         | same here! big kudos to the devs!
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | Does anybody install the Logitech SW on their computer? Does it
       | phone home?
        
         | tecleandor wrote:
         | Yep. I installed it in my work Mac and it's terrible. It phones
         | home. It's huge. It tries to convince you to install other
         | stuff. Off it goes.
        
         | SlackingOff123 wrote:
         | I haven't found a way to reconfigure the side buttons on my
         | Logitech Lift Vertical without that bloated software
         | permanently running in the background on Windows. I'm honestly
         | afraid to check how much it phones home.
         | 
         | I wish Solaar got ported to Windows.
        
       | jklinger410 wrote:
       | Flathub version here:
       | https://flathub.org/apps/io.github.pwr_solaar.solaar
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Been using this for years on my Debian 12 install and it's been
       | very solid. Why it's on the homepage though is perplexing.
        
         | gertlex wrote:
         | Lightweight software that does one thing well always makes for
         | a great casual conversation topic here. You learn how
         | widespread knowledge of it it is or isn't. And, often adjacent
         | tools that might be of interest are mentioned. Admittedly not
         | "news".
        
       | qmr wrote:
       | Please port to Windows, I don't want 500mb of shitware to change
       | settings on my mouse.
        
         | shiroiushi wrote:
         | The source code is available, so if you think this project is
         | so important, you can do it yourself.
        
       | rez9x wrote:
       | I tried to get this to work a couple of times and gave up. I was
       | trying to rebind a mouse button (back) to a macro and just gave
       | up after a while. I ended up using the G Hub on a Mac and
       | applying settings to the onboard config. I like the idea of
       | Solaar, but the initial learning curve was more effort than I
       | wanted to put in to rebind a single key.
        
         | jwrallie wrote:
         | If the button already has a function (like back) assigned to
         | it, I think the input-remapper[0] software would work. That is
         | what I use with my deathadder.
         | 
         | [0] https://github.com/sezanzeb/input-remapper
        
       | shlomo_z wrote:
       | But does it have AI like Logitech's other products?
        
       | pxc wrote:
       | Is there anything like this on Windows? Logitech mice are mostly
       | nice, but one of their major flaws is that their macro capability
       | is not onboard but requires some kind of supplemental software
       | like this, so even just binding a single button to multiple
       | keystrokes as a chord is not possible without G-Hub.
       | 
       | Linux has stuff like Solaar and Piper/libratbagd, which is great.
       | For macOS, it looks like SteerMouse does quite nicely, even for
       | mice with many extra buttons. So does G-Hub have any alternatives
       | like this on Windows? It would make recommending Logitech mice to
       | Windows-bound friends and family so much easier.
       | 
       | (My favorite forever for these reasons was Roccat, _everything_
       | their mice can do they can do onboard. Configure your mouse once
       | and you can purge whatever software you 've used to do it if you
       | don't like it, without limitations. But hardware quality control
       | with them has long been iffy, and I think since their buyout by
       | Turtle Beach it will only get worse.)
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | Their major flaw is that they purposefully use shitty switches
         | that fail, sometimes within months. This is true even with
         | their absurdly overpriced gaming mice.
         | 
         | I have never had a mouse whose buttons failed until I bought a
         | logitech. Every person I know raves about them until you ask
         | them how many they've had to buy.
        
           | WhyNotHugo wrote:
           | Warranty will often get you a new one. I had a mouse fail
           | about 2.5 years in and they sent a new one.
           | 
           | OTOH, it speaks terribly of their quality; a mouse should
           | work fine for 10-20 years, like some mice from 20 years ago.
        
             | amlib wrote:
             | Even 20 years ago mices weren't always that reliable. I
             | used to have a Microsoft ball mouse from the late nineties
             | and I remember the micro switch giving up after about 4
             | years. Even the replacements (albeit much cheaper/more
             | generic brands) from the time didn't fare better, but at
             | least by that point they were all optical.
             | 
             | And I say "replacements" because they all didn't last very
             | long, until I got the memo and started buying decent stuff
             | from brands like... logitech. And then there is the
             | conundrum of going with something even more "premium" than
             | a logitech, there's very little guarantee it's really gonna
             | last. You may be paying twice as much for it but it still
             | ends up lasting about as long.
        
           | andix wrote:
           | I can't confirm that. I have a few Logitech devices and they
           | are still fine after years of heavy use (mx ergo, and master
           | series).
        
             | augusto-moura wrote:
             | Same, been using a MX Vertical daily for almost 5 years now
             | and, aside from flaking off the finish in some places, it
             | works perfectly fine. Battery life is pretty good as well,
             | I think I can avoid using a cable for months
        
           | bongodongobob wrote:
           | Nah, I deployed Logitech for ~300 users in a manufacturing
           | environment for years and they were just fine. You got
           | unlucky or are beating the shit out of them.
        
             | dicknuckle wrote:
             | Agree. It's rare to find a failed Logitech mouse.
        
               | sebazzz wrote:
               | It is actually quite common for some mice because
               | logitech uses the wrong switches for a 3.3v logic level
               | mouse.
        
               | BenjiWiebe wrote:
               | I have a drawer full of failed Logitech mice (about 10).
               | 
               | They're mostly M100(?) mice from the MK120 combos. They
               | basically all start doubleclicking eventually.
               | 
               | They're not all from my personal computer though,
               | probably from about 8 different PCs.
        
             | kergonath wrote:
             | I've had a MX1000 (which did not fail but had terrible
             | battery life), a G7 (which double-clicked on the right
             | button after 3 years), a G602 (which just stopped working
             | one day), a G502 (which stopped clicking at all), and a
             | G604 (same).
             | 
             | I won't claim to be a statistically representative sample,
             | but from my experience their high-end stuff is expected to
             | break after between 2 to 3 years. I kept going back to them
             | because the hardware is very nice when it works. I gave up
             | and bought a Razer Naga about 3 years ago. Hopefully it
             | fares better in the long run.
        
           | burnt_toast wrote:
           | Semi-agree. I've had 2 mx525s fail within ~6 months of
           | purchase but I've also had a mx anywhere 2s that I bought
           | used and got 3 years of usage out of it before I had to
           | replace the switches.
           | 
           | I wouldn't buy a cheap mouse from them again.
        
             | homebrewer wrote:
             | Three years is below what should be considered acceptable,
             | let alone impressive. I got a bit over ten years of really
             | heavy use out of a dirt-cheap Genius mouse ($3-4) before it
             | had to be replaced, and not because of the switches but
             | because of the physical wear of the case.
        
             | okasaki wrote:
             | I've used a G203 ($20) daily for 4 years and it works like
             | new.
        
           | Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote:
           | Like the others I can't say I have had a mouse button crap
           | out on me. My problem is with the mouse wheels but I'm not
           | sure if that is the manufacturer's problem or poor
           | cleanliness on my part.
        
           | jbd0 wrote:
           | I bought some switches from aliexpress for my Logitech G203
           | and replace them when they fail. I've had it for 5 years now.
        
           | burkaman wrote:
           | If you don't want to worry about this you can get an Asus
           | mouse that is designed to be repairable:
           | https://rog.asus.com/articles/gaming-keyboards-gaming-
           | mice/g...
        
       | leshenka wrote:
       | Is there a same thing for macs? The native logitech solution
       | requires me to install a .pkg and I'm not really a fan of it to
       | say the least. I'd rather install something from homebrew.
        
         | indymike wrote:
         | Logitech used to have a Chrome plug-in that could manage their
         | unifying devices.
        
         | akerr wrote:
         | I use BetterMouse:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42457393
        
       | mattfrommars wrote:
       | For Linux pros here, can anyone explain how is this, in my
       | understanding, driver implementation for Linux to be completely
       | written in Python?
       | 
       | My understanding is most for driver code is written in C or C++.
       | The 'new' way of developing - the kernel development is in Rust.
       | 
       | How can this work that is written in pure Python?
        
         | wyager wrote:
         | Probably they used LibUSB bindings or something
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | > Solaar is not a device driver and responds only to special
         | messages from devices that are otherwise ignored by the Linux
         | input system.
         | 
         | The normal Linux drivers implement what's needed to receive the
         | HID message. This just handles some vendor specific messages on
         | top of that. A bit like how a program can send a custom vendor
         | specific TCP message on top of the existing OS network drivers
         | without having to itself be a kernel level network driver.
        
         | indymike wrote:
         | From the second sentence of the readme:
         | 
         |  _Solaar is not a device driver and responds only to special
         | messages from devices that are otherwise ignored by the Linux
         | input system_
         | 
         | Sounds like this isn't working at the kernel level.
        
         | dicknuckle wrote:
         | It's a manager for the device's extra features, and pairing of
         | dongles since that's not handled by the OS. It replaces a few
         | of the typical Logitech applications that normally do this.
        
         | gosub100 wrote:
         | for a more general answer, if you rewind the clock back to the
         | 80s and early 90s: a hardware device required setting a COM
         | port or IRQ, which was often done by physically setting jumpers
         | on the device, and the user was responsible for making sure
         | that, e.g. IRQ21 wasn't already being used by the BIOS or
         | another device on the system. Then, you'd install a device
         | driver that knew the specific memory addresses to read/write to
         | in order to communicate with the controller on the device,
         | based on the proprietary way the company decided to do it.
         | 
         | fast forward to today, and the hardware industry has made great
         | advancements in standardizing how devices operate. memory-
         | mapped I/O allows the OS to treat many device drivers the same,
         | they just need to handle manipulation of the memory after it's
         | read/written. for USB, the industry standardized on _device
         | classes_ , so something either acts like a communication device
         | (serial port, JTAG reader), an audio device, a video capture
         | device, or in this case, an HID (human interface device). So
         | based on the general characteristics of how the thing operates,
         | the kernel can do 80% or more of the driver development for
         | you. especially because of the linux credo that  "everything is
         | a file"
         | 
         | you plug in a usb dongle and you get (hypothetically) a few
         | files called /sys/class/hid/<serialnum>/{control, data}. so you
         | could, say, change the RF channel of the dongle by writing a
         | very specific value to the "control" file, which will get
         | sucked in by the kernel and sent to the device. Or you could
         | get raw kb/mouse data by catting the .../data file. this would
         | in theory, allow you to write a device driver in python by
         | connecting the .../data file to a read handler, processing the
         | input (the hard part, which requires reverse engineering), and
         | emitting the corresponding output, such as the OS command to
         | move the mouse or generate a keyboard event.
         | 
         | I made some generalizations here, but this is the main idea.
        
       | kdmtctl wrote:
       | I'd love to see this ported to Mac.
       | 
       | Just discovered the bloody AI prompt builder enabled by default
       | in my mouse driver today. After patiently declining input
       | recording permission for months.
       | 
       | Managed to get rid of the most of bloatware using their corporate
       | "Offline" version which supposedly doesn't phone home and doesn't
       | ask for extra permissions. YMMV.
       | 
       | https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/11570501236119-Lo...
        
         | thombles wrote:
         | > AI prompt builder enabled by default in my mouse driver
         | 
         | That's so wild I had to go and look up what that could possibly
         | mean. What a world we live in. https://www.logitech.com/en-
         | us/software/logi-ai-prompt-build...
        
           | kdmtctl wrote:
           | I didn't even check what it could be. I just got the rainbow
           | cursor suddenly on boot, and the process name was enough to
           | instantly uninstall the driver and search for a replacement.
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | What is a rainbow cursor?
             | 
             | Do you mean the mac beach ball, or is it a misguided
             | feature of the mouse?
        
               | kdmtctl wrote:
               | Beach ball, yes. I've started to call it rainbow cursor
               | 30 years ago on air gapped Macs, and still reluctant to
               | absorb any other names.
        
           | gosub100 wrote:
           | I worked at a fucking _air conditioner_ manufacturer, and
           | sure as shit they had an AI developer. people are huffing
           | some strong shit.
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | At least it's not actual spyware.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29056847
         | 
         | Wacom's drivers collect and send both application _and window
         | title names_ to them. It still does, even after all the
         | outrage.
        
           | drdaeman wrote:
           | How on Earth they're not sued into oblivion?
        
             | terminalbraid wrote:
             | But you agreed to it in the ToS when you installed it. You
             | can disable this however (before it was discovered you
             | could not).
        
           | guiambros wrote:
           | Yet.
        
         | akerr wrote:
         | I use BetterMouse with my MX Anywhere 3S and it does everything
         | I need it to. It's a few dollars but it has a trial and is
         | available via Homebrew.
         | 
         | https://better-mouse.com
        
         | OptionOfT wrote:
         | Logitech implements the forward and backwards buttons on macOS
         | in a REALLY weird way. It simulates swipe events. And you
         | cannot set them to the default Mouse Forward and Mouse Backward
         | (M4/M5). https://superuser.com/a/1216049
         | 
         | On Windows that is what I do to make sure behavior is
         | consistent across applications.
        
           | kristofferR wrote:
           | Oh awesome, so that's why Logitech mice work so much better
           | than other mice in macOS. Cool project:
           | 
           | https://sensible-side-buttons.archagon.net/
        
         | pparanoidd wrote:
         | "Mac Mouse Fix" or "Better Mouse" does everything I need on my
         | MX Master 3S
        
         | gbil wrote:
         | Solaar works on Mac with some tries, at least for me the best
         | approach was to get the repo and run the binary directly
         | instead of trying to install it
        
         | dkmar wrote:
         | Just switched from logi options to Steer Mouse myself.
         | 
         | You can map the buttons and add chords. The only thing it might
         | lack is being able to use mouse movement as a trigger (eg hold
         | the back button and move left to change spaces). Still looking
         | for it
         | 
         | https://plentycom.jp/en/steermouse/
        
           | kergonath wrote:
           | SteerMouse is fantastic. I've been using it for about 20
           | years now.
        
             | kstrauser wrote:
             | I switched about a year ago. After about two days of trying
             | it, I was throwing money at them. It's sooooo much better
             | than Logitech's enormous blob, and actually
             | looks/acts/feels like a Mac app. It was totally worth the
             | small price.
        
       | rational_indian wrote:
       | What is the average lifespan of a logitech gaming mouse? I bought
       | 3 over the years and the average life span has been around 2
       | years.
        
       | leeoniya wrote:
       | im currently struggling to pair MX mice (anywhere S2 and S3) and
       | keyboard via bluetooth in endeavourOS.
       | 
       | works okay with intel ax-210 chipaet/driver on one machine but on
       | another machine i can only get both to pair to a bluetooth 4 (le)
       | dongle but not bluetooth 5+ chipset (realtek or intel 9560). not
       | sure if bluez bug or btusb driver or smth :(
       | 
       | any tips?
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | Huh. I bought a Rii brand keyboard/trackpad combo for my couch
       | because logitech and all other brands I'd heard of only have
       | humorously bad form factors or are out of business (like
       | gyration).
       | 
       | Bullet dodged.
        
       | LarsDu88 wrote:
       | I'm using this right now! It's awesome!
        
         | LarsDu88 wrote:
         | Did not realize it was written in python of all things!
         | Inspiring me to right now to write more FOSS software!
        
       | buserror wrote:
       | I use for pairing etc and it's great, but the rule editor is just
       | completely bonkers. I tried several times to add a gesture move
       | for the 'gesture' button on my 3S, and eventually gave up!
       | 
       | Seems you need to know the exact keycodes, or names, or whatever
       | key you want to use. Like XF86_MonBrightnessUp. Want to add a
       | combo? not sure how to do that either.
        
       | jdndjfhdbr wrote:
       | I don't get the use case for this, all Logitech keyboard and mice
       | are supported with the default USB/Bluetooth HID drivers shipped
       | by any OS in the last 20 years
        
         | dmm wrote:
         | You're right. It's not a driver. It's a configuration tool. I
         | use it to associate devices with the little dongles.
        
       | aorth wrote:
       | Thanks! This is timely. I just spent an hour of my working
       | morning fiddling with my Ergo K860 keyboard after changing it
       | from Bluetooth to Unifying receiver. Having to find the secret
       | reset key sequence, swapping ports, restarting everything, argh!
        
       | teekert wrote:
       | I only buy Logitech because Solaar exist. It would be nice if
       | they'd get some kickback. I just feel like it needs an AI prompt
       | builder and then it's finished.
        
         | superb_dev wrote:
         | Was the AI prompt builder sarcastic or a serious suggestion? I
         | can't figure out how any AI fits into my mouse configuration
         | utility
        
           | teekert wrote:
           | Sorry, it's absolutely sarcastic. I thought I wasn't able to
           | couple my MX Keys to the Bolt dongle and the MX Master 3S to
           | the "Unifying" dongle because I needed Windows (but no, it's
           | by design!). So I grab my wife's laptop, install that
           | Logitech garbage and it greets me with an AI prompt builder.
           | I was like that Picard Gif, squared. Unbelievable.
        
             | superb_dev wrote:
             | It seemed so ridiculous that I thought it must be sarcastic
             | but you never know with how rabid AI people are. Absolutely
             | insane that they included that in the official software!
        
               | teekert wrote:
               | Yeah, I mean what is the thought process here?
               | 
               | - Lets build a plug-in that can put an AI prompt builder
               | under a mouse button!
               | 
               | - But nobody would download and use it!
               | 
               | - You're right, lets force-feed it through our main app!
        
       | bbutkovic wrote:
       | I have been using this for my ancient MX Master 2s for quite some
       | time now.
       | 
       | I use it mostly to adjust the point where the scrollwheel no
       | longer ratchets and just freewheels (Logitech put an electrically
       | actuated lever that controls the ratchet into their mice), Solaar
       | has an option to tune it, it works amazingly.
       | 
       | Not to mention how you can bind keyboard shortcuts to specific
       | "gestures" using the palm button.
       | 
       | Solaar is awesome, thank you, Solaar devs!
        
       | ensocode wrote:
       | That looks great, thanks. Just for info: if needed only for
       | pairing dongles there is an even more lightweight approach
       | https://lekensteyn.nl/logitech-unifying.html
        
       | BiteCode_dev wrote:
       | Good software, simple, does what it says.
       | 
       | I rarely need it; now BT mice work quite well, but sometimes, to
       | avoid pairing one mouse with a new device (and losing the
       | previous one), I will use it.
        
       | mathfailure wrote:
       | How does its functionality differ from the logiops package?
        
       | steakscience wrote:
       | It's so good in fact that I wish it existed for macOS so I
       | wouldn't need to use the official Logitech crap
        
         | terminalbraid wrote:
         | The Logitch Options+ is super hot garbage I tried _once_. The
         | regular  "Options" I don't find to be as obtrusive. But I would
         | use this in a heartbeat if it existed.
        
         | Rebelgecko wrote:
         | If you look on their GitHub there's a WIP Mac version you can
         | try
        
       | adamtaylor_13 wrote:
       | I love my Logitech G602/502 series but after they killed the line
       | it's time for my money to go to a company that values me.
       | 
       | The problem is, I LOVE my 8-programmable buttons and there isn't
       | another mouse I've been able to find that approaches the number
       | of buttons and ergonomics of the G602.
       | 
       | The price I'm willing to pay for the right mouse is absurdly
       | high, but it isn't $200 for a mouse that dies within a year due
       | to shitty switches.
        
       | Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote:
       | What does this offer me over piper and libratbag? I only need
       | something to configure the extra 2 buttons on my mouse. If it has
       | its own profiles or a command line interface then I would see
       | some value in using it myself.
        
       | mzajc wrote:
       | I like this a lot, and the rule editor is able to create some
       | very powerful workflows.
       | 
       | My mouse has two side buttons, and I bind one of them plus
       | scrollwheel to virtual desktop switching. Unfortunately this
       | takes complete control of your scrollwheel, so you need to
       | experiment with the rules a little in order to avoid performance
       | issues.
       | 
       | Honorable mention: https://github.com/PixlOne/logiops/, although
       | its rules are much less powerful.
        
       | deadbunny wrote:
       | Piper[1] has always worked for me. Granted I only use wired mice.
       | 
       | 1. https://github.com/libratbag/piper
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | I like Solaar more than the actual Logitech shit actually cuz 1.
       | you can see actual battery % and 2. you can set actual dpi
       | numbers instead of a f*king slider like the actual logitech app,
       | like the software department for logitech should get fired just
       | for that.
        
       | rafaelmn wrote:
       | One thing I'm kind of surprised by is that the custom mouse space
       | is so empty, compared to custom keyboard scene.
       | 
       | I would like to have some custom micro controller/ZMK based mouse
       | that I can pair with say my wireless split keyboard. Logitech has
       | OK hardware but they don't have basic functionality like sync
       | switching between devices - this would easily be handled by OSS
       | firmware.
        
         | mmazzanti wrote:
         | I've wanted the same for a while. I think there are two main
         | restrictions:
         | 
         | - Mouse bodies are harder to make, since they generally have
         | more complex curves compared to a flat keyboard. 3d printing
         | helps a lot, but you don't get the same durability or quality
         | as injection molding
         | 
         | - Mouse sensors are strangely hard to find. The "good" sensors
         | on a lot of the high-end mice are difficult to find as
         | individual components. From a quick look at what custom mice
         | exist, they'll often cannibalize an existing mouse for
         | components rather than order things from say DigiKey, like you
         | can for keyboard components
        
       | bjoli wrote:
       | Does anyone know of a good program to help tweak the mx ergo on
       | linux? I have some xinput tweaks, but I feel I am leaving much on
       | the table - probably by not really understanding xinput. It is
       | also soooo much more comfortable to use the trackball on my mac
       | where I have the Logitech software installed.
        
       | jlarocco wrote:
       | It's a shame vendor specific software like this is necessary.
       | 
       | I wonder why setting DPI and stuff like that were never added to
       | the standards so the baseline drivers can use them?
        
       | FrameworkFred wrote:
       | I use solaar with a mx master 3s and it's great (thumbscrolling
       | works as it should) except the mouse battery level indicator is
       | uncalibrated...20% at the highest, then it's quickly at 5% where
       | it stays for-e-ver.
       | 
       | I gas-up my car when my tank is below 1/4, so it's a little
       | disconcerting to have a red battery indicator with an exclamation
       | point on it...not enough to actually want to use it with the
       | cable plugged in, but still...
        
       | ComputerGuru wrote:
       | Out-of-the-box Linux distributions give me a desktop notification
       | when my 17-year-old MX mouse (connected via unifying dongle) is
       | low on battery. Does anyone know how to get this on Windows?
       | Nothing worse than the battery dying mid-use.
        
       | porkloin wrote:
       | Slowly but surely, desktop Linux is developing an ecosystem of
       | quality of life applications like this that make using common
       | peripherals and stuff on Linux not feel so bad.
       | 
       | Some of my other current favorites are:
       | 
       | - CoolerControl (https://gitlab.com/coolercontrol/coolercontrol)
       | - fan control/curve designer/temp sensor overview tool. Seriously
       | awesome tool!
       | 
       | - LACT (https://github.com/ilya-zlobintsev/LACT) - AMD GPU tool
       | for overclocking, etc. Anything you would do with the radeon app
       | on windows
       | 
       | - BoatSwain (https://flathub.org/apps/com.feaneron.Boatswain) -
       | Elgato StreamDeck tool
        
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