[HN Gopher] A 10-Year Battery for AirTag
___________________________________________________________________
A 10-Year Battery for AirTag
Author : dmd
Score : 263 points
Date : 2024-12-18 18:17 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.elevationlab.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.elevationlab.com)
| janandonly wrote:
| That is not how batteries work. Batteries drain even under
| minimal usage.
|
| My bet is that in 2/3 years this device will stop working
| already.
|
| Just change the batteries if you AirTag once a year. Especially
| if you are using an AirTag to keep watch over 10.000 dollar
| equipment.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Lithium batteries (like the 1.5V energizer suggested) have
| extremely low self discharge. The reason why lithium batteries
| are used for long life is because you can actually reliably
| count on them to not self discharge after 20 years. As long as
| the mAh is 10x the coin cells they use, I'd totally believe the
| 10 year statement.
| alnwlsn wrote:
| Here [0] is the datasheet for the batteries used. 25 year shelf
| life is spec'd.
|
| I have personally run these cells buried underground, and
| gotten 4.5 years out of 4 of them, though my application is
| just for fun and likely not as power conservative as an AirTag.
|
| [0] https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/l91.pdf
| michaelmior wrote:
| Okay, now I'm really curious what application you have for a
| device buried underground.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| Ooh what's the application underground?
| alnwlsn wrote:
| So I attend this local annual event that has a time
| capsule. Each year, we bury one and dig up the one from 5
| years ago. This has gone on for several decades, and people
| are always thinking of interesting things to put in there.
|
| I made a little electronics project that is somewhere
| between "what happens inside a time capsule while it's
| buried?" and "what if you could wind a watch once and have
| it still be ticking in 5 years?"
|
| I nearly forgot that I made a project page for it:
| https://hackaday.io/project/160740-low-power-environment-
| mon...
|
| I dug up the first one last year and it had made it to 4.5
| years, and I'm actually due to dig up the second one next
| week.
| m463 wrote:
| Lots of smoke alarms now have 10 year batteries.
| jerlam wrote:
| Now mandated in California.
|
| No more waking up in the middle of the night and crawling up
| a ladder to find out which of your smoke alarms decided it
| was too cold and decided to sing its low battery chirp.
| michaelmior wrote:
| Also in New York. Personally I'm all for this even though I
| think it does make detectors a bit more expensive. Not only
| because it avoids the need to change batteries, but because
| it's more likely that smoke detectors actually get replaced
| at their end of life.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Does that fix it or make it worse? If you have 10 smoke
| detectors and they end up randomly staggered so this
| happens once a year, and you can't replace the batteries
| anymore... that seems worse than the old system which
| completely eliminated this issue if you just replaced them
| all every year or two on a schedule.
| jo909 wrote:
| Remember that you are supposed to replace the entire
| thing because the other components like the sensor or
| simply capacitors also age. It is a very cheap safety
| device and simply not worth taking any risks by
| stretching it to say 15 years instead. The proper way
| would be to replace them while they were all still fine
| by making a note in the calendar.
|
| There are two cases:
|
| Your products are faulty and at least one has not made
| their intended 10 year lifespan. I'd change them all for
| better ones.
|
| Or
|
| They have reached their lifespan and you only noticed
| because the first one failed. I'd replace them all.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Fair point, although with a 400+ year half life in the
| americium source in the detector, I am skeptical that a
| new smoke detector would be any more reliable than a very
| old one.
|
| I would think testing them regularly - especially with
| simulated smoke as done in professional situations, or in
| my case via bad cooking, is probably more effective than
| regular replacement on a schedule to ensure they are
| always working. In most cases I've rented where I live,
| and had hardwired smoke detectors that I could not
| legally replace myself, yet almost certainly had not been
| replaced for many decades- but I know they work well.
|
| If dealing with something that follows a Poisson failure
| probability distribution with a fixed percentage
| probability of failure per year (as is the case with most
| electrical components), regular replacement only makes
| the system more reliable if you are unable to test it,
| otherwise it makes no difference.
|
| With a few rare exceptions, is largely a myth that
| replacing machines or technology at regular intervals
| increases reliability- people incorrectly assume this to
| be true, based on observing that most failures happen to
| things that are old, but this is merely because they
| spend more time being old, not because the rate of
| failure per time increases with age (it almost never
| does). Testing and redundancy are more effective and
| cheaper.
|
| Now, everything I am saying would be wrong if smoke
| detectors indeed have components besides the alpha source
| whose failure rates are known to increase with age, and
| actually age out within a decade or so. Like you
| mentioned, this can be the case with electrolytic
| capacitors as well as non solid state relays. However, I
| wouldn't be surprised if the lifespan of capacitors at
| the low temp and low voltages in a smoke detector wasn't
| 50+ years.
| taylodl wrote:
| This solution makes the AirTag bigger. Might be okay for a photo
| bag, it's quite cumbersome for car keys and dogs. Besides, your
| phone will warn you when the battery is getting low. I always
| keep a couple of 2032 batteries on hand and soon as I get the low
| battery warning I just pop a new one in.
| moojacob wrote:
| They talked about this in the article. It is for bigger items
| like RVs and camera bags that you also don't interact a lot on
| a daily basis.
| grouchomarx wrote:
| >Might be okay for a photo bag
|
| Yes that's what its for
| jerlam wrote:
| Not a bad price, but it does require an existing Airtag.
|
| Ten years is a very long time in tech. I wouldn't be confident
| that the Airtag protocol will be functioning in 2035, and there
| are already rumors of a new Airtag and possibly a newer protocol
| coming up.
| spiderfarmer wrote:
| If Apple kills existing Airtags any time soon they effectively
| kill the product line. So they won't.
| minton wrote:
| This might underestimate Apple consumerism (I include myself
| in that).
| tpetry wrote:
| Its really easy for them, and this also in line how they
| would operate:
|
| Add a new Airtag v2 protocol to the next iPhone and sell new
| Airtags only using that protocol. Why should you buy them?
| They could have different improvements you would like.
|
| Start deprecating Airtag v1 in 3-4 years - and only sell new
| ones. There are now 3-4 iPhone generations that can handle
| the new version.
|
| The next iPhone in 6-7 years doesn't support Airtags v1
| anymore as it is obsolete now for many years.
|
| Voila, they killed Airtags v1 in less than 10 years without
| killing the entire product line by switching to a new
| version. Is that unrealistic? No, thats their normal way how
| they deprecate stuff. It still works but only with old
| hardware or by not getting new updates anymore (iOS, macOS).
| BudaDude wrote:
| I would agree with you if this was a main line product
| (iPad, Macs, iPhone). You could argue the Apple Watch is a
| main line product as well.
|
| But this is an accessory line. Apple is pretty good at
| keeping accessories working for as long as possible.
| AirPods v1 still work. A Magic Mouse bought 10 years ago
| still works as long as the battery isn't dead.
| withinboredom wrote:
| actually ... it doesn't. Well, you can't use them with a
| phone anymore because they did exactly as described. The
| new mice work fine though.
| samatman wrote:
| This is not at all in line with how Apple operates, it's
| diametrically opposed to it in fact.
|
| I suppose you could contradict me by providing a list of
| the products Apple has deprecated this way.
|
| Can you?
| hatsix wrote:
| It's exactly how Apple operates. The last Apple device
| with Firewire was produced in 2012, though it was sold
| for several more years. MacOS 13 (2022) dropped the
| Firewire CoreAudio driver (as well as other, more niche
| support for Firewire). So... exactly 10 years.
|
| If you're going to put me in a bucket, I'd be in the
| "Apple Hater" bucket, but I honestly think that the way
| that they do this is fine. It would have been better if
| they had jumped on the USB bandwagon earlier, they
| certainly love to build their own solutions that are
| incompatible with where the rest of the industry (see
| also, their proprietary wireless audio, their proprietary
| bluetooth codec, their proprietary thunderbolt
| extensions, their proprietary magsafe power connectors,
| their proprietary Lightning cable/connector, their
| forking of webkit off of khtml, their changes to webkit
| that are part of Safari but haven't been pushed upstream
| to webkit)
|
| Anyways, this is exactly their MO and it's not bad. Apple
| doesn't need you to contradict everything people say
| about Apple.
| samatman wrote:
| Apple sold the first widely-available computer with USB
| connections, the iMac G3.
|
| > _To replace the removed ports, the iMac has Universal
| Serial Bus (USB) ports, which were faster and cheaper
| than Apple Desktop Bus and serial ports but were very new
| --the standard was not finalized until after the iMac 's
| release--and unsupported by any third-party Mac
| peripheral._ -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G3#Design
|
| It would not be possible for them to jump on a bandwagon
| they started any earlier than they did.
|
| > _The last Apple device with Firewire was produced in
| 2012_
|
| Thunderbolt supports the Firewire protocol in the
| transport layer. So this means that people who need to
| support a Firewire device need a dongle now. Apple used
| to sell the adapter, apparently it's been discontinued,
| but they're still manufactured by third parties, and the
| originals available on the secondhand market. Which,
| given that Firewire is dead and buried, and no one is
| making new Firewire stuff, is also where you'd need to go
| to get something expecting Firewire to begin with.
|
| I do not see this as the problem you seem to.
| duskwuff wrote:
| > Apple sold the first widely-available computer with USB
| connections, the iMac G3.
|
| They were also, simultaneously, the first manufacturer to
| really go all-in on USB. Some PC manufacturers at the
| time were including one or two USB ports on their
| systems, but relied on legacy ports (PS/2, serial,
| parallel, etc) for most functionality. Their USB ports
| were mostly a show of "look, we have the new thing" -
| much in the same way that modern PC motherboards may have
| a single USB-C port on the back, actually.
| joshstrange wrote:
| I might be missing something but Apple was the first
| (major) company to ship USB 1.1 in 1998 on the iMac. It
| was a big deal IIRC also because they removed the floppy
| drive at the same time.
|
| But maybe you are talking about something else?
| smileybarry wrote:
| AirTags use the same Find My protocol that's been out for years
| before them, I doubt Apple will cut them off. They also get
| regular software updates, so the hardware should last that.
| roger_ wrote:
| > I wouldn't be confident that the Airtag protocol will be
| functioning in 2035
|
| I'd agree if it were any company other than Apple. And if Apple
| goes under by 2035 then AirTags will be the least of our
| concern.
| chadash wrote:
| > Ten years is a very long time in tech.
|
| Well, they certainly _might_ be functioning in ten years from
| now. Conservatively, you get 5 years of use out of this, which
| isn't bad for $15-20, depending on your use case.
| jonhohle wrote:
| I replace AirTag batteries every 6 months to be safe, so $15
| (plus batteries) isn't significantly more expensive over 5
| years.
| jakedata wrote:
| Brilliant, I just ordered a couple. But I bet that case muffles
| the sound when the AirTag decides to sing you the song of its
| people. This might be a boon to AirTag stalkers who are too lazy
| or unskilled to disable the sound and upgrade the battery life.
| kylebenzle wrote:
| > This might be a boon to AirTag stalkers who are too lazy or
| unskilled to disable the sound and upgrade the battery life.
|
| What a nonsensical fear to have.
| jakedata wrote:
| Why is that nonsensical? Airtags are very nice little bits of
| technology, a marvel really. But examples of abuse are not
| theoretical. Increasing the battery life by years and placing
| the airtag in a waterproof case are totally valid things a
| legitimate user might wish to do, but it also enhances their
| nefarious or unethical use potential. That is not nonsense.
| fragmede wrote:
| that's not the part that seems nonsensical. it's the idea
| that a stalker wouldn't just pull out the speaker.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Or for the comment's theoretical "too lazy or unskilled
| to disable the sound" stalker, wrap the airtag in a sock
| and stick it in a tupperware container.
|
| "Put the airtag in a box" is not really an exclusive
| invention here.
| Zababa wrote:
| Most criminals are dumb. Anything that makes their job
| easier can increase the crime rate/efficiency of their
| criminal activities. I'm pretty sure stalking with
| devices increased after the Airtag was released.
| hiatus wrote:
| Even android will notify you if you are walking around
| with an airtag in your pocket.
| 15155 wrote:
| I was hoping to see a betavoltaic battery here.
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| Really neat idea and at that price I'll probably get some for
| luggage and my backpacks, where I have AirTags that stay there
| the whole time.
|
| One thing I'm curious about battery leakage. Many of the
| batteries of my remotes and similar devices seem to leak after a
| while (including one I heard pop and got very warm). These are
| devices that do get frequent usage, so they aren't just sitting
| without any discharge (but also the drain for a remote would be
| very minimal).
|
| Would this device experience the same, given how little power the
| AirTag needs?
| ssl-3 wrote:
| This appears to be intended to be used with lithium primary
| cells.
|
| Lithium primary cells tend not to get all leaky with age like
| alkalines do. (They'll keep your remote working approximately
| forever, too.)
| sss111 wrote:
| Project Farm did a test for the best battery and lithium
| batteries smoked all the alkalines:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efDTP5SEdlo
| buescher wrote:
| IIRC the packaging pretty much says, should they leak,
| Energizer really wants to hear about it. For what that's
| worth.
| zeagle wrote:
| Does anyone know what camera bag that is on that website. Peak
| design? Looks perfect for my usual load out.
| m463 wrote:
| Looks like any number of generic camera bags.
|
| Camera bag design seems to have moved on from that, and a sling
| design seems to be more popular.
|
| The sling lets you swing the bag from your back under your arm
| to in front of you. There is a zipper towards the side that
| lets you securely access the camera and accessories.
|
| So pretty easily you can get your camera out, or later put it
| back without removing the backpack.
| zeagle wrote:
| That's fair. And thanks for the thoughtful reply! I was
| thinking more for travel / safe storage. I'm often flying on
| small planes and to throw it in my duffle.
|
| My solution is I have a PD 30L as with dslr, 200-400, macro,
| 24-74 lens two straps are nice to have purely due to weight
| vs sling. The side access is clutch.
| 542354234235 wrote:
| I'm pretty sure it is the DSLR Pro Pack by Incase.
|
| https://www.incase.com/products/dslr-pro-pack?srsltid=AfmBOo...
| neilv wrote:
| It's a good design, IME. Lowepro makes a variety of similar
| ones. (I had a one similar to the photo, fitting 2 bodies,
| wide L, long L, f/1.4 prime, strobes and triggers, and boxes
| of strobe batteries.)
|
| Lowepro also has day/overnight/carryon backpacks, so you can
| carry some DSLR gear, laptop, change of clothes, and
| toiletries, all in one bag.
|
| I still have one LowePro day backpack that I repurposed as
| engineer/startup briefcase. It fits a huge laptop and misc.
| stuff for working late hours, and has a DSLR door in the
| side, so you can slide one shoulder strap off off long enough
| swing it forward like a sling bag, for quick access to a good
| camera for serendipitous shots.
|
| Regarding real sling bags, I personally wouldn't use for
| lengthy carrying of heavy stuff, since it's asymmetric
| left/right. I even got rid of my grocery canvas tote bags,
| and use an old backpack for carrying home groceries.
| dcdc123 wrote:
| Cool idea for a product but you either have to be a serious
| airhead or just lazy to miss or ignore all the low battery
| notifications. Also, that case should have a spot to store the
| back plate.
|
| > Just discard the AirTag's back plate
| avree wrote:
| It's a cool hack, but a terrible idea for a product. There are
| more components than the battery that will fail over a 10 year
| period (both in hardware and in software) - which is why
| ignoring notifications, and assuming that this product solves
| your problem is a big issue.
| jrmg wrote:
| This seems incredibly pessimistic to me. Do you really not
| expect things to last for over ten years?
|
| In my experience most electronic things - and especially
| things that are simple and solid with no wear and tear like
| an AirTag - easily last 10 years. I'd expect an AirTag to
| work for, at least, decades.
| dmd wrote:
| My amplifier and speakers date from the 70s.
| avree wrote:
| Do they run a proprietary Apple software, and have NFC
| and UWB inside them?
| Spivak wrote:
| When the software is fixed we're back to thinking of the
| object as a single piece of hardware. My Gamecube and
| Xbox 360 have been working for (nearly) 20 years now.
|
| Unless there's a known failure mode in these devices that
| gets worn down over time you should probably expect them
| to outlive you. The worst you'll probably get is
| corrosion from the AA batteries in the pack.
| zamadatix wrote:
| I've got a 10 year old Bluetooth headset that works fine with
| a 2024 iPhone so why would something even simpler so
| obviously not?
| pcdoodle wrote:
| This guy replaces his garage door opener every 2 years...
| mikestew wrote:
| Your smoke alarm has a ten year battery.
| jen729w wrote:
| But when you have 4 -- and I bet people have more -- it does
| get a bit boring having to switch them out. It's no longer an
| annual event, it's now quarterly.
|
| I mean, first-world problem. But if it could be less frequent,
| of course I'd take it.
| smileybarry wrote:
| I have about 8. They used to run low at the same-ish time
| frame, but over time they drift apart due to frequency of
| moving around. (e.g.: the AirTag in my luggage runs out
| months after the one in my wallet)
| LegitShady wrote:
| its not about missing the notifications, its about not needing
| to worry about it.
| 542354234235 wrote:
| But these don't exist in a vacuum. Replacing one battery a year
| is not a big deal. But I'm also replacing the 8-10 door sensor
| batteries yearly, 3 water leak sensors, etc. In a set it and
| forget it product that you may not use for weeks or months at a
| time, but also really need to work the one time you do need it,
| increasing the lifespan by an order of magnitude can have real
| value.
| saturn8601 wrote:
| Any chance that the AirTag could have a software memory leak that
| would normally be masked by cutting power once a year? Its
| possible right? The code must be written in something low level
| like C.
|
| Would be kinda funny if 10 years from now the author gets his
| stuff stolen again and then discovers said memory leak crashed
| the Airtag 9 years ago. As Elon Musk likes to say: "The most
| ironic outcome is the most likely" . (OP I hope your stuff does
| not get stolen again, its just a joke)
| smileybarry wrote:
| AirTags get updates regularly, so they'd probably get power-
| cycled sooner than that.
| kube-system wrote:
| They're not being updated any more frequently than they are
| already reporting their battery status, are they?
| unsnap_biceps wrote:
| I would presume the battery status is sent as part of the
| beacon, firmware is updated only when the phone is locked
| and charging in range of the tag.
| kube-system wrote:
| I believe that's correct. I get low battery notifications
| when I am out of range of mine, I think.
| buescher wrote:
| I would also imagine someone with a fleet of these would be
| pretty cheesed if Apple rolled out an update that drained some
| fair fraction of users' batteries, no matter how fast they
| fixed it.
| fiatpandas wrote:
| That's a very good point. The system design of the airtags
| assumed a much shorter battery life, which may have led to
| decisions that would introduce issues at 10x battery life.
| Thinking more like overflow issues. But could also be a
| complete non-issue. Hard to say.
| duskwuff wrote:
| Given the resources on the device (it's a Nordic nRF52832
| with 64 KB RAM), I'd expect any memory leaks or similar
| defects to show up well before a year.
| Karliss wrote:
| Reasonably designed embedded device like that should be using a
| watchdog timer which automatically restarts it if code gets
| stuck (it's a basic hardware level feature available in almost
| all microcontrollers), and any crash should also cause a
| reboot.
|
| Considering the nature of product there is no interactive
| interface, it doesn't perform any critical operation like motor
| or heater control which couldn't be easily interrupted and
| resumed a fraction of second later after the reboot. In case of
| memory leak or some kind of memory allocator error it would
| also be safe to reboot. User wouldn't even notice if this
| happened.
|
| So even if something goes wrong, chance of it being
| uncrecoverable seems low. It would need to be either some kind
| of persistent storage bug causing it to get stuck in a bootloop
| (in which case battery change wouldn't help either), or high
| level logic error preventing normal functioning while keeping
| the main loop running without crash or getting stuck (writing
| code in higher level programming language wouldn't prevent a
| logic error).
| randyrand wrote:
| double the battery & double the size would be the sweet spot for
| me.
|
| this is a bit big and heavy.
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| I'm OK with the One-Year-ish battery life and happy to change
| them yearly. I try to do them in batches (the fours usually die
| together within about a month).
|
| The irritating ones are in the bags/check-ins I stashed/stored
| snugly, and now I have to take them out to replace the battery.
| Of course, the bearable thing is that the battery lasts for about
| a month after the warning, so there is that.
|
| I think I'm complaining about something which is not a big deal.
|
| I'm not sure if this much bigger device is any benefit just to
| make it last 10-years and forget about it.
| MisterTea wrote:
| Well look at in in terms of batteries deposited per year in the
| landfill: 0.1 or 1.
| conductr wrote:
| GAAP requires you to accrue your batteries deposited in
| landfill, so back to 0.1 per year (/s if not obvious)
| ianferrel wrote:
| Two AA batteries is about 16 cm^3 of waste. 10 CR2032s is
| about 10 cm^3.
|
| "Number of batteries" is not the right thing to measure.
| Maybe volume isn't either, but it's got to be closer.
| duxup wrote:
| At 10 years I kinda wonder what the odds your AA batteries become
| problem occasionally (leaking, etc) long before the Airtag...
| although they are Lithium batteries.
| riffic wrote:
| are lithium batteries known to expand or catch fire in the AA
| form factor?
| kube-system wrote:
| I believe that is primarily an issue for damaged or
| rechargeable lithium batteries, so not really a concern here.
| homebrewer wrote:
| I think you misunderstood GP. Lithium AA batteries are very
| reliable and keep charge for at least ten years (the standard
| metric is losing approximately 1% per year), that's what he's
| saying.
|
| They won't burn because they contain metallic lithium (and
| not lithium salts like rechargeable cells) and _don 't_
| contain easily flammable organic solvents (yep, like
| rechargeable cells). There are videos on YouTube of people
| disassembling them with no problems (for example, to extract
| metallic lithium for chemistry experiments).
| riffic wrote:
| it's a sincere and earnest question - I didn't know. I
| appreciate the additional info.
| IshKebab wrote:
| I think leaking is relatively rare, but based on my experience
| of "10 year" smoke detector batteries they usually don't last
| anywhere near that.
|
| Also there's stupid legislation in the UK at least around
| making smoke detectors with replaceable batteries. Took me
| quite a while to find some.
| roger_ wrote:
| This solves one of my biggest issues with AirTags and I'd be
| tempted to buy one if AirTag 2s weren't right around the
| corner...
| SSchick wrote:
| Pretty much this, I hope they retain the form factor, I would
| very much buy 3-4 of these for my luggage, I previously duct-
| taped airtags inside of the case but they died within a year,
| this would help a lot.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Replacing batteries is a pretty big annoyance for me. But if I'm
| honest, the $19.99+Li Cell Cost is too steep for me. I'll just
| replace these every year.
| drdaeman wrote:
| Are AirTags actually useful for anti-theft purposes?
|
| I threw one in the trunk of my car (just in case - I ordered a
| 4-pack and I had a spare one), and every single time I drive
| somewhere it chirps loudly when I'm exiting my driveway, making
| its presence immediately obvious without any delays, and despite
| my phone being with me in the car.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| Samsung tracker doesn't have this silly problem.
| lcfcjs6 wrote:
| Samsung make trackers? Are you referring to tile?
| OutOfHere wrote:
| > Samsung make trackers?
|
| Yes.
|
| > Are you referring to tile?
|
| No.
| carlgreene wrote:
| Yes, but only if you remove the speaker which is well
| documented on YouTube
| kube-system wrote:
| Even if you do that they will still notify a thief with a
| notification on their iPhone.
| omgwtfbyobbq wrote:
| I think that's ok though, right?
|
| As long as you do a good job placing/hiding it, the thief
| can't easily find and remove/disable without the speaker.
| kube-system wrote:
| How big is your item and how hard is it to search? If you
| know a bag has an airtag in it, it won't take that long
| to find.
| wholinator2 wrote:
| True, a suitcase could be quickly dispatched but you
| could hide it very very well on something like a car.
| kube-system wrote:
| Maybe, but is any old car thief on the street going to
| hang on to a car they know has an airtag in it? They
| probably were going to joy ride it for the afternoon,
| maybe commit some other crime, wreck it, and dump it
| regardless.
|
| I have an airtag in my car, but I don't think I'm going
| to get much value out of it other than finding my car
| when I forget where I'm parked.
|
| If you want to catch a criminal in the act, you usually
| need to observe surreptitiously or they'll change
| behavior.
| RandallBrown wrote:
| > but is any old car thief on the street going to hang on
| to a car they know has an airtag in it?
|
| No, and that's mostly the point right? If they get in the
| car, get an alert they're being tracked, then dump the
| car, at least you find it faster.
| kube-system wrote:
| By the point it's stolen, it's probably already too
| little too late. Not only will it probably be going to
| some impound lot before I can get to it -- it'll probably
| be on track to be my insurance company's car at that
| point. Seeing it on a map might be fun for curiosity's
| sake at that point, I guess.
| nucleardog wrote:
| If you get a bit creative you can definitely hide it well
| enough that "removing the air tag" is no longer the weak
| point in the plan.
|
| I've got a Pelican 1510 that has a suitcase-style pop up
| handle and wheels on it. It's just screwed on there. I
| took the screws out, took it off, filed the sides of the
| air tag down slightly so I could fit it in a little
| cranny and then held it in place with some black tape so
| it's hard to see. Even if you use an iPhone to try and
| find it, it looks like it's hidden in the liner or
| something. But it takes tools and about 15 minutes to get
| it out _even if you know exactly where it is_ and how to
| get to it.
|
| For one of my backpacks it actually came with an "air tag
| pocket" which is just a spot on an inside seam where
| there's a small gap you can slide the air tag in and it's
| held securely. I know it's there and it still takes me a
| while to find the thing to take it out.
|
| For my other, I pretty much just get by on it having a
| bazillion little pockets and pouches and lot of random
| stuff in it. The air tag's nestled in there beside the
| flashlight that the TSA spent almost a half hour looking
| for after x-raying my bag repeatedly before finally
| telling me what they were looking for and me pulling it
| out for them.
|
| I'm relatively certain I'd recover my bag with the air
| tag still in it. Whether or not the _valuables_ are still
| there is a different story.
| kube-system wrote:
| I have a feeling that thieves aren't going to spend any
| time fooling around if it isn't obvious, they'll dump the
| valuables out of the bag, and discard the bag.
| nucleardog wrote:
| Yeah that's kind of what I was alluding to in the last
| line. Was mostly responding to the idea that "it won't
| take that long to find".
|
| With a bit of creativity they can be made pretty hard to
| find. At least hard enough that they're no longer the
| weak link at all.
|
| The next step would be trying to make it more integral to
| whatever thing you're trying to track. If you disassemble
| an air tag and hide it inside your laptop, no thief is
| gonna pull out some precision screwdrivers and start
| trying to figure out where the hell it is. They're just
| going to get rid of it.
|
| ... Which I've thought about, but that's a level I don't
| think is really necessary for my own situation.
| echoangle wrote:
| Only if a thief has an iPhone or manually installed the
| Android App.
| Grazester wrote:
| The latest version of Android shows this now. I had to
| install nothing on my phone for this(I get a full map
| showing the tracking behavior)
|
| From a year ago https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/newest-
| android-feature-aler...
| echoangle wrote:
| Ah I completely missed that, thanks! Very nice that this
| is supported everywhere now.
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| I wonder with customizations like in OP you could bypass
| this. For example, if the alert comes after 20 minutes of
| being near an air tag - if the power to the circuit was
| automatically cut for 1 minute every 15 minutes, would the
| alert still activate?
| kube-system wrote:
| I don't think it works like that, anyway. The alert is
| not generated by the airtag, it is generated by the
| phone. And the phone knows what is around it because it
| scans for beacons on a periodic basis.
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| Right - the phone itself is what is keeping track of the
| air tag, but if the phone doesn't detect the airtag for
| some period of time, I assume the anti-stalking timer
| resets. This is why if you walk past an airtag on the way
| to the store, and then walk by it again 20 minutes later,
| you won't get an anti-stalking alert.
| dmajor2 wrote:
| No, they have been rendered useless for that purpose through
| software updates because of the almost 100% overlap of the use
| cases of 1) stalking someone 2) and tracking a thief.
| ronsor wrote:
| Wait until they realize the almost 100% overlap between the
| camera's use cases of 1) spying on people and 2) recording
| nature
| post-it wrote:
| Nature cameras are relatively hard to conceal (from
| humans), whereas AirTags are very easy to conceal.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| They are also very bad for tracking compared to what you
| can get on Aliexpress/eBay/Amazon (which are the same
| tbh).
|
| For about the same price you can get a device with a SIM
| card and GPS/GLONASS and _zero_ ways to detect it.
| nucleardog wrote:
| I think you can still thread the needle. The cases are
| identical except for one situation--if the air tag is
| difficult to find or remove.
|
| If you can't find or remove the air tag, then the option you
| have left to not be tracked is to separate yourself from the
| tracked thing. In the case of someone being stalked, that's
| inconvenient (that doesn't do it justice, but not really
| important to my point). In the case of someone who stole
| something, that's actually the desired outcome.
|
| Imagine a situation where you get in a car and a few minutes
| later it says there's an air tag following you.
|
| If you're being stalked... you can drive straight to a
| mechanic who can take all the time they need to find it, take
| a taxi over to the police and report it, etc.
|
| If you just stole that car, now you know you're on the clock.
| Once someone's looking for you and that vehicle, there's a
| really good chance they're going to find it. You can take it
| to a mechanic, but a reputable mechanic might have some
| questions. You can try a less reputable mechanic, but they're
| gonna be pissed when the cops come knocking asking about the
| stolen car sitting over there and you might not be going back
| there any time soon. So if you can't find and remove the air
| tag relatively quickly, what options do you have left?
| Probably makes more sense to abandon the vehicle and try
| another one with a lower risk of winding up in jail.
|
| I _know_ where the air tag is in my suitcase and it would
| take me tools and ~15 minutes to remove. How long is someone
| going to spend at that versus just tossing it?
| to11mtm wrote:
| TBH your response makes me realize there's possibly a
| decent use case for bicycles with the right diameter
| tubing.
|
| > You can try a less reputable mechanic, but they're gonna
| be pissed when the cops come knocking asking about the
| stolen car sitting over there and you might not be going
| back there any time soon. So if you can't find and remove
| the air tag relatively quickly, what options do you have
| left? Probably makes more sense to abandon the vehicle and
| try another one with a lower risk of winding up in jail.
|
| Depends on the skill of the chop-shop or it's folks and
| where you are.
|
| A fun thought experience would be how much suspicion a
| flatbed tow truck with some form of faraday cage around the
| car, below a cover would get from LE.
|
| Agree with your general 'deterrent' concept, I think the
| main challenge a lot of folks run into is getting lazy with
| placement. Glove/console boxes, the 'pockets' on the back
| of front seats, are all stupid easy. Technically anything
| in the interior, probably can be 'found' with sufficient
| detection capability.
|
| No, you put that thing somewhere _weird_ and ideally a PITA
| to get at.
|
| This honestly gives me the idea of finding the right spot
| in my WRX front headlights to make it not visible; If the
| spot I'm thinking of will work, they'd literally have to
| pull off the front bumper to even get at it...
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| There is something wrong with your configuration/setup, it is
| not supposed to start chirping unless it is out of range of
| your phone for at least 8 days, and not in one of the
| predefined geofence regions you can setup where it won't chirp.
|
| I have them on tons of my devices, including my kids personal
| items that go to school, etc. and they never chirp, and I can
| and have found items that were misplaced in public locations
| (but not actually stolen).
| drdaeman wrote:
| > There is something wrong with your configuration/setup
|
| Something is off for sure, but it's not like there are any
| user-configurable parts here. I literally just threw it in
| the trunk - and it's not like there's a right and a wrong way
| to do it. :-)
|
| I guess it's because I don't have a garage and my car is
| parked in a carport, about ~100 feet/~30 meters away from my
| apartment, so it "normally" doesn't sense my phone "nearby".
| Then, I suspect, when I walk down and sit in the car (which
| takes just a minute or two) there is not enough time for it
| to reconnect with the phone and realize the owner is around.
| Because an AirTag on my wallet doesn't do this. But that's
| just my guess - I'm too lazy to pull an SDR and listen to the
| radio traffic to confirm.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| You can configure the geofencing locations where it won't
| alarm in the 'Find My' app.
| pinkmuffinere wrote:
| >it is not supposed to start chirping unless it is out of
| range of your phone for at least 8 days, and not in one of
| the predefined geofence regions you can setup where it won't
| chirp.
|
| Does it even chirp then? This is news to me, I have an airtag
| in my car and have certainly left it for 2 weeks during
| vacations. I've never heard the airtag chirp unless I make it
| play a sound through "Find My"
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Your home is usually automatically geofenced, so if you
| left it there it shouldn't chirp. If you parked your car
| elsewhere, e.g. an airport lot it was probably chirping
| while you were gone, but you wouldn't hear it because you
| weren't there.
| indrora wrote:
| Yes, actually. It's not a panacea, but it's a foothold.
|
| Nearly all my hardside cases have an airtag stuffed in one of
| the "Surface Mount" kits from ElevationLab. it _looks_ like a
| pressure valve on the other side, and I might replace them with
| Security mounts if I 'm really worried. Having those was a
| FANTASTIC way to track my cases as I left them with a (trusted)
| friend to be shipped along some other Very High Value gear.
| Being able to see what was going on (and know when it had
| reached its destination) was invaluable. On the way back, I
| could see my luggage as it slugged its way through the airport
| luggage handling system. It's not real-time but good enough for
| rough location.
|
| A friend of mine was able to locate their stolen vehicle down
| to the block and then drone-find the vehicle from there, call
| the cops, and ended up busting an interstate chop shop in the
| process. The AirTag consistently got gasps of updates from
| passing vehicles and the neighbor's HomePod.
|
| All this because she had hidden an airtag in the gas cap.
|
| There are airlines that are encouraging people to put
| airtags/tiles/samsung trackers on their checked luggage because
| it helps them keep the airport handlers in check. A prime
| example of this is flying with guns (yes, you can fly with
| guns!) and how having an airtag made it EASIER to recover the
| firearm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHyb2amIkzo (This
| happened AGAIN, by the way:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBngUc3rmY0 -- Yes, airlines
| are TERRIBLE about handling these things!)
| mdawwg wrote:
| Cool idea. I actually just recently changed my air tag battery
| for the first time. The FindMy app notified me when the battery
| was at 30%.
|
| Personally I'm able to risk the battery dying since the tag is on
| an inexpensive item I lose frequently, but I understand the
| annoyance of replacing the battery often.
| johnklos wrote:
| I wonder if they really don't know that Apple already has a
| product named Time Capsule.
| chili6426 wrote:
| The product you're referring to is called "AirPort Time
| Capsule" and time capsule can't be copyrighted.
| mjlee wrote:
| https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-
| property/trademark/...
|
| It is a registered trademark. As I understand it, common
| words or phrases can be protected within the same area.
| Colours too - https://secureyourtrademark.com/blog/t-mobile-
| magenta/
| humanpotato wrote:
| What is the point of CNC machined screws? I have only seen that
| type of thing on specialized military applications and the like.
|
| I'm sure standard rolled screws would be just fine...
| alamortsubite wrote:
| _Not technical razzle-dazzle but the sheer aesthetic
| superiority of its elegant parabolic design make the GFX-100 a
| marketing breakthrough!_
| kube-system wrote:
| Well, it is ambiguous enough of a statement that it could be
| both. Maybe rolled threads and CNC lathe finish on the head...
| to make it look nice? Rolled threads are stronger anyway.
| Zooming in, it does look like there's turning marks on the head
| of the screws.
| jonhohle wrote:
| I had the exact same thought. The screws are recessed, so
| knurling is unimportant. I love the idea and will buy some for
| the cars but give me a stainless m5, hex cap head screw, I
| don't care about the process.
| to11mtm wrote:
| If I had to guess, they had easier access to a CNC or someone
| with CNC skills vs a shop that could get them rolled screws in
| the right size within their timeframe.
|
| The 'nice' thing about CNC screws is that it's cheaper to do
| short runs. (which, on the military side, can help on some
| 'security by obscurity' lengths for revers engineering).
|
| That said Rolled screws are almost always gonna be better
| unless the die is fucked.
| jmull wrote:
| I know this is useful (for something), but I'm stuck on the plot
| holes in the motivating story...
|
| Why didn't they replace the battery when the app complained?
|
| How long would a thief really keep the AirTag anyway?
|
| If the thief did keep the AirTag and you tracked them down, then
| what? A confrontation has a fairly high chance to have a worse
| result than losing some equipment. You could try to get the
| police to do it, but that's going to take more time, during which
| the thief is even more likely to ditch the AirTag.
|
| Anyway, you're really swimming upstream trying to think of
| aigtags as an antitheft device. They're really for something
| lost, not stolen. Generally, they are specifically designed to
| not work well in adversarial situations.
| Osyris wrote:
| I've been wanting exactly this for so long. I want to bury an
| AirTag in my luggage, backpack, etc. and never think about it
| again. In those scenarios, it doesn't _need_ to be tiny. I'd
| rather trade compactness for longevity.
|
| However, an AirTag attached to my keys _should_ be small and
| it's easily accessible so I don't mind swapping the battery as
| needed.
| whycome wrote:
| I fully expect Apple to release the airTag in different form
| factors. They can then also sell a whole bunch of new
| accessories. A 'pen' form factor with replaceable AAAA
| battery might be perfect for myself.
| encoderer wrote:
| There exists a small percentage of men who will go absolutely
| savage on somebody for stealing from them, and the existence of
| those people is probably a bigger crime deterrent than the
| police.
|
| So I say, shine on you crazy air tag tracking vigilante
| diamonds.
| crazydoggers wrote:
| This is called an evolutionary stable strategy. (my favorite
| type of Nash equilibrium)
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strate.
| ..
| encoderer wrote:
| Ah yes very insightful. My comment has net 50 karma at the
| moment -- more evidence this is a stable behavior with
| majority support.
| kstrauser wrote:
| I don't want someone to put razor wire on their catalytic
| converters so that it slices thieves' fingers off. I do,
| however, wish to leave the impression with thieves that
| perhaps _my_ catalytic converter is protected by insanity
| armor.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| When I lived in California I wrapped a bunch of chain
| around the cat on my truck. Wasn't actually that secure but
| thieves see a ton of chain and padlocks and go "ehhhh keep
| moving."
| kstrauser wrote:
| I believe that. A big part of security isn't making your
| property theftproof, but making it more work than your
| neighbor's.
| dmd wrote:
| You don't have to outrun the _bear_...
| tonymet wrote:
| order results from consequences. it's ok if you want to be
| timid, but don't shame others for helping restore order.
| criddell wrote:
| Is fear of punishment the main reason you aren't out there
| stealing the things you want and killing those who get in
| your way?
| mihaic wrote:
| For many people, especially from some terrible cultures
| I've personally met, the odds of being punished are really
| the only deterrent.
| tonymet wrote:
| I'm a decent person, so no. But most crime is committed by
| a minority of scumbags who require consequences.
| wyager wrote:
| The question isn't enlightening, because the modal HN
| commenter isn't anything like the modal criminal
| tonymet wrote:
| i like your use of modal. if more people understood that
| criminality follows power law distribution, we would have
| better policy.
| knowitnone wrote:
| Yes
| dylan604 wrote:
| interesting. the concept of that's not yours and is
| actually someone else's isn't the most compelling reason?
| very interesting
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| That concept encompasses a ton of gray area. For example,
| did the ancestors of the person you are stealing from
| enslave your ancestors? Or more simply, are you or your
| children going to go hungry?
|
| At the limit, the rule is always might makes right. Until
| then, the question is how much are you willing to give up
| to re-order the status quo? (A reordering that may or may
| not end up in your favor)
| dylan604 wrote:
| I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. You're
| saying a double negative makes a right? Vengeance is mine
| sayeth you?
| jmull wrote:
| More plot holes! You think there are people looking to
| confront thieves in-person but are dissuaded by internet
| "shame"? Does no one have a sense of coherent narrative?
|
| Of course, I can see you just wrote that as an indirect way
| to call me chicken (a bit timid yourself, no?), but can't you
| work out a better narrative considering the context?
| tonymet wrote:
| I don't know you but I can only speak to your position. In
| the DAP Model established by Team America, it is a P
| position. The Ps are in no position to criticize the Ds
| jmull wrote:
| Assuming you're an adult, aren't you a little embarrassed
| to be calling people pussies on the internet? I mean,
| come on. You can _surely_ be better than that.
| unsnap_biceps wrote:
| It only complains once that the battery is low and never again,
| I've run into a dead battery when searching for an AirTag
| multiple times.
| jakespencer wrote:
| This has not been my experience. I've had multiple AirTags
| notify me multiple times over a period of months that I
| needed to change the batteries.
| unsnap_biceps wrote:
| So last week my keys AirTag was dead, and I checked my
| notifications and I only received one notification in
| October that it had a low battery, but to be fair, I don't
| know exactly when it died between October and last week.
|
| Maybe my batteries die completely before the second
| notification triggers.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| How do you check historic notifications?
| dylan604 wrote:
| Maybe they need an option for people like you called
| "smoke detector mode" where it starts to annoyingly beep
| once a minute.
| climb_stealth wrote:
| Dear god please no. The kind of people who don't notice
| empty batteries also don't notice the annoying beeps. But
| I do.
|
| Apartment living can be hell when there are neighbours
| who don't replace their smoke detector batteries. I can't
| fathom how people can sleep through this loud annoying
| chirp every thirty seconds. I certainly find it hard and
| my apartment is far enough away that it's hard to
| determine where exactly the chirp is coming from.
|
| The thought of smoke-detector like beeping of airtags all
| over the place gives me the worst kind of creeps. Please
| don't give them ideas! Please!
| dylan604 wrote:
| That's easy to fix. Just carry a pocket full of 2032s,
| and offer to swap out the beeping tags near you. For a
| small nominal fee, of course. Or just for free for the
| sake of humanity or just your own sanity.
| cute_boi wrote:
| i wish police do honey trap more often like put expensive
| equipment. That will definitely reduce lot of crimes.
| roland35 wrote:
| Didn't that work well with car theft? I believe reading
| something like that
| colechristensen wrote:
| https://mndaily.com/190563/uncategorized/minneapolis-
| police-...
|
| It's a thing in Minneapolis, though the Kia Boys thing was
| still very real here, I don't know how much they've kept it
| up.
| joshuahaglund wrote:
| I've retrieved stolen bikes, one because of an airtag. Showed
| up with a couple friends standing by but not trying to be
| intimidating. It's mostly about staying calm and telling the
| person this is mine, I'm taking it. They always say "no it's my
| friend's, you're gonna piss him off" or "I just bought this" or
| something. Maybe you offer some fraction of a "reward" to
| smooth it along and cut your losses. Don't try to start a fight
| and it generally goes OK. Also, try not to accuse them of
| stealing, they'll just get defensive. "It's someone else who is
| screwing us both, but this is mine sorry."
| wyager wrote:
| "Altruistic punishment in humans" -
| https://www.nature.com/articles/415137a
|
| It's good for society, and (in the evolutionary equilibrium)
| results in massively reduced defection, if people are willing
| to take on high risk to aggressively punish defectors.
| elzbardico wrote:
| A lot of those thiefs are not hardened criminals, because the
| payoff for this kind of crime is usually a small fraction of
| the actual value of the things stolen. Most of time it is the
| average wimpy addict and the reason he resort to this kind of
| criminal activity is preciselly because he is not ready for the
| violent potential of more profitable criminal activities.
|
| If you relativelly fit, and have some experience with actual
| fights or training in martial arts, it is not that stupid to
| try to recover your stuff.
|
| If you don't feel confortable with the prospect of any kind of
| violent confrontation or don't have the street smarts to
| evaluate the risk potential of saidconfrontation, you'd still
| have the hope that the police would do something anyway if you
| have the location of your goods.
|
| Really, at some time we need to stop glorifying cowardice and
| reclaim a little bit of dignity.
| jmull wrote:
| > Really, at some time we need to stop glorifying cowardice
| and reclaim a little bit of dignity.
|
| I really struck a nerve here. Don't worry, no one's
| questioning your manhood.
|
| I'm a little surprised people here are counseling unthinking
| violence over analytical decision making. People are free to
| choose whatever strategy they want, but, obviously, one is
| going to work better than the other.
|
| A brave person makes the right choice, even when it's scary.
| A coward makes the wrong choice out of fear. Do you really
| want to claim stupid violence is right and analytical
| decision making is wrong?
|
| I think your mental model needs some updates.
| mardifoufs wrote:
| What does dignity and cowardice have to do with manhood?
| That's a weird projection of toxic masculinity. Not wanting
| to get your stuff stolen helplessly isn't about manhood at
| all, it's more about dignity, which is a basic human right.
| unclad5968 wrote:
| "if you don't let people steal your stuff you're not a real
| man!"
|
| That was awfully presumptuous and condescending. I think
| the people advocating we let thieves take our things are
| the ones who need some updates.
|
| Ad hominem attacks aside, you're presenting a false
| dichotomy. There is nothing mutually exclusive about
| analysis and violence.
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| Really, at some time we need to stop glorifying cowardice and
| reclaim a little bit of dignity.
|
| As a society, yes, but do you want to be the one to sacrifice
| your life or livelihood, for the slim chance of having an
| impact on society? A lot of those thiefs are
| not hardened criminals
|
| Right, but I wonder how long a stolen bike is in the original
| thief's possession, before it's sold to a fence? And perhaps
| the fence is in better shape or has buddies for protection
| against retheft?
| citizenpaul wrote:
| >stop glorifying cowardice
|
| I mostly agree. I don't think its cowardice most of the time
| though. Its that laws now favor criminals if you attempt to
| do anything yourself. Its become public policy that "rich"
| people buying things can simply absorb the loss and the
| police don't even have to do anything because no one bothers
| to report it. The police win because crime stats go down,
| thiefs win because they get the goods, the victim absorbs all
| the cost and if they try to do anything the victim goes to
| jail for whatever charges that made the police have to get up
| and work.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _You could try to get the police to do it, but that 's going to
| take more time, during which the thief is even more likely to
| ditch the AirTag._
|
| During the most recent American election I saw at least three
| news stories on television about campaign sign thieves being
| tracked down through the use of AirTags put in one of the
| signs. To my surprise, in each case the police were right
| there, and in two of the cases, the signs were still loaded in
| the thieves' cars. So it does seem to work.
|
| _Anyway, you 're really swimming upstream trying to think of
| aigtags as an antitheft device._
|
| They aren't anti-theft devices as in padlocks. But the more
| often that thieves start wondering if the thing they're taking
| might have an AirTag in it, they might start reconsidering some
| of the petty thefts.
|
| It's like a surveillance camera. A camera, itself, can't stop a
| crime. But the possibility that someone's watching can act as a
| mild deterrent.
| runjake wrote:
| > They're really for something lost, not stolen. Generally,
| they are specifically designed to not work well in adversarial
| situations.
|
| They're designed to tell you where it is, which is useful for
| lost or stolen items.
|
| What you do with that information is a whole other topic
| outside this scope.
|
| I've recovered or helped recover several stolen items located
| with an AirTag and I'll keep on buying them as long as they're
| good for both. So far in the cases I've been involved, the
| thief wasn't aware of the AirTag.
| buescher wrote:
| The third time someone calls to complain that the alkaline
| batteries they put in this leaked, they'll wish they used a
| soldered-in 3V lithium primary cell. Even though that goes
| against a certain ethos.
| tivert wrote:
| > The third time someone calls to complain that the alkaline
| batteries they put in this leaked, they'll wish they used a
| soldered-in 3V lithium primary cell. Even though that goes
| against a certain ethos.
|
| Those aren't alkaline batteries. Energizer makes AA/AAA-size
| lithium primary batteries, which is what they are using. They
| wont leak and have a 25 year shelf life.
|
| https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/l91.pdf
|
| And I don't think _they 'd_ get complaints about alkaline
| batteries leaking. I think pretty much anyone (even those who
| don't understand batteries), would tend to blame the batteries
| themselves, not the device they're in.
| buescher wrote:
| I saw that they recommended Energizer lithiums. So would I.
| Recommendations won't change that behavior, which I am very
| familiar with. It's ok that you aren't if you're willing to
| learn something today.
| wyager wrote:
| He means that idiot customers will use the wrong batteries
| and get mad, and they absolutely will. The modal customer
| doesn't understand anything about battery chemistry and will
| unconditionally buy the cheapest battery at the store.
| buescher wrote:
| No amount of intelligence or understanding of battery
| chemistry will make batteries any less dismal and
| disappointing to the consumer.
|
| Ironically, the very cheapest carbon-zinc batteries
| probably would be kind of OK in this application.
| to11mtm wrote:
| _cries in 'I worked at a computer shop that started selling
| carbon-zinc batteries around 2002-2003'_
| Grazester wrote:
| Who leaves 10K worth of anything in their car? I get antsy
| leaving my $200 laptop hidden under my seat! This person is
| crazy.
|
| There is also no guarantee they person who stole the bag wouldn't
| dump the bag(with the hidden AirTag) and just keep the gear or
| that the police would help recover it even if you gave them the
| location(many times the don't).
| xattt wrote:
| Usually, cars are worth more than 10K and they are often left
| out in the street!
| Grazester wrote:
| Yeah but someone can't pick up my car and walk away with it
| on their back, can they now, genius?
| withinboredom wrote:
| hulk has entered the chat
| nine_k wrote:
| Cars are impractical to carry by hand, while a lot of
| expensive computer / photo / audio gear can easily be carried
| in a tote bag.
| qazxcvbnmlp wrote:
| The amount of things you leave in your car varies strong by
| local. In many parts of the country you can leave the car
| unlocked w/ laptop inside no problem.
| npretto wrote:
| Surely going to lunch with 10k of equipment is safer,
| especially when you'll need to go to the toilet.
| Vegenoid wrote:
| I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but generally
| car break-ins are much more frequent than muggings. And
| bringing a bag of expensive equipment into the bathroom is
| almost certainly less risky than leaving it somewhere,
| whether in your car or elsewhere.
| Grazester wrote:
| It's a backpack. You hang it on the hook on the stall door
| where you hang your jacket
|
| I think there is less of a likelihood someone is going to
| jump you for your backpack when you are at a restaurant for
| lunch than there is for them breaking into a car parked only
| a dimly lit street for said backpack.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Except that American public toilets have gaps so large
| between the door and the frame that a thief can pretty much
| just grab the backpack without opening the door =)
| Grazester wrote:
| I live in big City America. This is what I did. Hang my
| backpack on the stall hook as stated or shit with it on
| my lap. I carried a laptop, DSLR and lens with me for all
| my college life. I couldn't afford to replace anything if
| lost during said times as an international student whose
| credits cost more than 3 times that of a non-
| international student.
| scottyah wrote:
| Paragliders, though with the small community their resale value
| is pretty low so I'm not sure it's "$10k worth", even if that's
| what it cost.
| grujicd wrote:
| It's not very risky to leave expensive items in the car, but in
| the trunk, not on the backseat! Also, never put these expensive
| items or really any kind of bag in the trunk after you park.
| Always do it before the ride. Or at least make very sure that
| no one is watching you.
|
| This is a basic safety drill. And it doesn't apply to expensive
| things only. You don't want your window broken for a sport bag
| with a sweaty t-shirt used in a gym like it happened to my
| friend. Any kind of bag left visible in a car is a risk.
| wyager wrote:
| > in the trunk, not on the backseat! Also, never put these
| expensive items or really any kind of bag in the trunk after
| you park... You don't want your window broken for a sport bag
|
| A frustrating thing is that it's completely optional to live
| in a society where this is a problem. We know how to stop
| this from happening. There are places where you just don't
| have to live in fear of some low-life breaking your window,
| and we have the technical ability to replicate those
| conditions in any moderately-wealthy country, if we aren't
| prevented from doing so.
| canucker2016 wrote:
| ...except when you're still in the car, while driving in San
| Francisco.
|
| Photographer had their camera bag stolen from their car while
| waiting to get on to an on-ramp in San Fran. see
| https://www.ktvu.com/news/real-estate-photographer-robbed-
| of...
| fortran77 wrote:
| "How dare that woman wear that sexy dress! She was just asking
| to be raped!"
|
| You are a terrible person.
| wyager wrote:
| > Who leaves 10K worth of anything in their car?
|
| People who live in a high-trust society and not a shithole? I
| leave $10k of stuff in my car all the time, and it would be
| super inconvenient if I couldn't.
| Grazester wrote:
| No matter how trusting I am of society this is something I
| cannot and will not do. It takes one person to commit this
| crime.
|
| It doesn't even have to be a "shit hole", then what? I am out
| of 10k? I only have myself to blame then really because I
| trusted "society".
|
| The world isn't perfect and I am not half naive enough to
| think it is and put my trust in it for anything worth this
| much.
| chili6426 wrote:
| I have a AirTag in my car so I can find it when I park in an
| unfamiliar city or an airport parking lot. I'm imagining a
| rechargeable version I could plug into the cigarette lighter and
| it would theoretically last as long as my car does.
| unsnap_biceps wrote:
| I plan on getting one of these TimeCapsules (what a silly name)
| and modify it to be rechargeable.
| kstrauser wrote:
| When I get out of my car, my iPhone remembers that this was the
| last place it was connected to the car's Bluetooth. I don't
| have an special devices or tracker apps or anything else, just
| "Find My" automatically pinning my car's location on the map.
| That's such a neat and helpful feature!
| tonymet wrote:
| this is a great idea and I'd love to see v2 with a 20 year flat-
| pack cell with usb-c charging. It would be 40% smaller and you
| could call it "lifetime charge"
| amluto wrote:
| ISTM that this use case would be better served by building a nice
| piece of openhaystack hardware.
| goryramsy wrote:
| I do wish openhaystack would be updated for MacOS 15, currently
| using a fork from a PR because of changes in MacOS 15's mail
| app.
| rdtsc wrote:
| > My camera bag with $10k of gear was stolen from my car. When I
| saw the broken glass and empty backseat, I immediately pulled up
| FindMy to track the thief ...
|
| Aha, but that's not what AirTags are for, according to Apple at
| least.
|
| On https://www.apple.com/airtag Not a single mention of "theft"
| or "stolen".
|
| It will even politely inform the thief you have a tracker in your
| stuff:
|
| > AirTag is designed to discourage unwanted tracking. If someone
| else's AirTag finds its way into your stuff, the network will
| notice it's traveling with you and send your iPhone an alert
|
| I wouldn't be surprised if Apple will come down on them with
| their legal team for promoting usage of the AirTag that's not
| according to their intended use.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Just as a thought experiment, what do you think would happen if
| Apple specifically advertised them as theft prevention tools?
| lxgr wrote:
| Presumably people would start complaining that they're really
| bad at that, since they loudly make themselves known to any
| thief.
| rdtsc wrote:
| > what do you think would happen if Apple specifically
| advertised them as theft prevention tools?
|
| I don't know, I am not Apple, and I don't even have AirTags.
| What do you think would happen, it seems you already have an
| idea?
| bufferoverflow wrote:
| I don't see how this huge tracker would help with the stolen
| camera gear. At least an airtag is small enough, you can probably
| glue it to the bottom of the camera, paint it black.
| bee_rider wrote:
| It is huge compared to an AirTag, but as somebody who doesn't
| know much about cameras, if I stole a photographer's stuff and
| something like that was in there, I'd probably not think too
| much about it. It is a black rectangle. Professionals have
| countless black rectangles that I don't understand.
|
| If they wanted to be really clever, they could easily find
| space to disguise it as a usb hard drive or something (I mean
| they could literally stick a USB hard drive in the thing, they
| are so tiny nowadays).
| sllabres wrote:
| I have once used a airtag to track a parcel. This is now 3 years
| ago and despite several low batt warnings since about a year ago
| its still running. So even wit the tiny cell battery the runtime
| can be quite long.
| esaym wrote:
| > we recommend Energizer Ultimate Lithium
|
| The advantage of "lithium" is high rate discharge, not longevity
| right?
| Diti wrote:
| Yep. That recommendation is weird. They should recommend NiMH
| batteries like the Eneloop series from Panasonic.
| cr3ative wrote:
| I think in this case it's shelf life. Very little discharge for
| a very long time.
| esaym wrote:
| Doing some math, looks like a CR2032 is roughly 200mah while
| AA is 2000mah. So if CR2032 lasts one year, then the AA will
| be 10 years, two AA would be 20 years. I guess in that case
| lithium would be the way to go.
|
| I just know for your typical wall clock that takes a single
| AA, whether it is lithium or alkaline, both won't make it
| much further than a year.
| lxgr wrote:
| Nice! Definitely somewhat of a niche use case, but I don't doubt
| that it exists.
|
| I do wonder though: Do AA batteries actually have a shelf life of
| 10 years even without supplying any current?
| jackvalentine wrote:
| Yes - some quality batteries claim 25 years shelf life.
| Slartie wrote:
| The Lithium ones that they suggest to use do have a decade or
| more of shelf life, and they also don't leak!
|
| I've got an old pinball machine. Those use AA batteries to
| store highscores and settings in a battery-powered RAM chip.
| Typically the batteries must be replaced once a year or at
| least every two years, largely because of self-drain, and it's
| a common occurrence of them leaking, which can quickly destroy
| the 30 year old circuit board they're on. That's why most
| pinball collectors suggest to use Lithium AA batteries: you get
| 5-10 year lifetime, no danger of leakage.
| daniel_iversen wrote:
| I wonder if the signal strength is worse or not now that the
| AirTag is enclosed in another case? I have my AirTag in the car
| hidden, which already seems to reduce the strength.
| TuringNYC wrote:
| Nice solution, but the bigger problem is how AirTags can
| basically be turned off, which makes it poor for many use cases.
|
| Of course, I get it from Apple's perspective, they dont want
| AirTags to be used to tail others. However, that precludes it
| from being used for theft tracking.
|
| For example, I use an AirTag on my bicycle. If someone steals the
| bicycle, they are literally informed "an air tag is following
| you" https://support.apple.com/en-us/119874
|
| There are a lot of things I'd love to put long-term AirTags on
| (luggage, snow-blower, childrens' backpacks) but if theft isnt
| really deterred, then the case for a bulkier AirTag is quite
| reduced.
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| Theft-tracking is sort of an "off-label" use for AirTags, from
| Apple's perspective.
|
| They'd rather make AirTags less generally useful than make them
| both more generally useful + open to stalking occurrences and
| lawsuits.
| TuringNYC wrote:
| Agreed on the trade-off. And there are some absolutely 1000%
| winning use cases (lost cats, lost dogs, lost luggage).
| However, lets look at the constraints and outcomes:
|
| - Me or other people need to be around (since airtags jump
| off others' devices)
|
| This removes use cases like tracking lost marine goods,
| tracking lost drones, etc.
|
| - Item being tracked has to be big enough to be worth the
| extra size/weight of the long life battery wrapper
|
| This removes most common use cases like wallets, remotes,
| etc.
|
| - Item being tracked has to be something you actually lose
| w/o wrongdoing. Makes sense for backpacks, purses, parked
| cars.
|
| But, most capital equipment wouldnt be "lost" it would be
| stolen, so that is out.
|
| https://ios.gadgethacks.com/how-to/20-surprisingly-
| practical...
| dervjd wrote:
| Any tracker can be turned off if a thief manages to find it -
| but yeah a notification letting them know they need to look
| isn't great.
|
| I use an AirTag on my e-bike - there's quite a few hidden
| mounts out there that look like normal rear reflectors or slot
| in between a water bottle cage and the bike frame. It's also
| trivially easy to pop the AirTag open and remove the speaker so
| it can't beep.
|
| I bought my AirTags before there were any compatible third
| party options, but the non-Apple AirTags don't have the UWB
| chip inside and don't support the precision finding feature
| which would also make them more difficult to find.
| running101 wrote:
| Maybe just set a reminder in your phone annually to replace all
| AirTag batteries
| jaykoronivo wrote:
| what a joke.
| jaykoronivo wrote:
| AirLuggages!
| amelius wrote:
| Why can't the AirTag simply report its battery status and warn
| the user e.g. through a nearby iPhone?
|
| This is another case of bad UX by a company praised for its great
| "product design skills".
| devmor wrote:
| It does do that already. The author likely ignored the
| notifications repeatedly until it died.
| lp251 wrote:
| it does
| joefitzgerald wrote:
| > Why can't the AirTag simply report its battery status and
| warn the user e.g. through a nearby iPhone?
|
| This is precisely how an AirTag works. It reports its battery
| status[1] via a notification to the user on an iPhone.
|
| [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102600
| jcrawfordor wrote:
| The size and cost of this unit and the AirTag to put in it get
| close, but not quite to, the size and cost of a cellular asset
| tracker. Roughly $30 more to get into a reputable brand asset
| tracker.
|
| The promised ten-year life is better than the e.g. 4-year life
| you can get out of a GPS/LTE NB-IOT with lithium primary cell and
| deep sleep, and with fewer compromises around tesponsiveness to
| commands (primary-battery asset trackers are usually waking up
| like once every 6 hours). Still, standalone asset trackers have a
| number of features that make them more suitable for theft
| scenarios than airtags, not least of which is the absence of the
| anti-stalking feature of airtags which means they're never really
| a concealable option.
|
| The major difference left is consumer-friendliness... Most asset
| trackers are provided by vendors with pretty hefty ongoing fees,
| and more oriented towards commercial customers like fleet
| operators and construction. Big difference in ease of purchase
| and use. It does make you wonder about the market for a really
| consumer-friendly solution, though.
| nycdatasci wrote:
| Get all perils insurance and make sure your typical use is
| covered. Often, commercial use will not be covered so it's
| important to double-check!
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