[HN Gopher] Formally Modeling Dreidel, the Sequel
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Formally Modeling Dreidel, the Sequel
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 61 points
       Date   : 2024-12-18 17:05 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (buttondown.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (buttondown.com)
        
       | oatsandsugar wrote:
       | > Dreidel is a bad game.
       | 
       | Mathematically proven now. A gut feel I've had since childhood.
       | 
       | But then again, spinning the thing is sufficiently fun, who needs
       | the antes.
        
         | bkandel wrote:
         | I actually had the exact opposite conclusion from the analysis:
         | Dreidel is a great kids' game of chance, because it's easy to
         | come back from a few bad rolls and it's almost impossible to
         | lose.
        
           | egypturnash wrote:
           | It also seems to be a great game for randomly redistributing
           | chocolate coins among children while giving them something to
           | do that's not "run around screaming" for a while. The game
           | went on all day long? _Great_ , that kept them _out of your
           | hair_ and amused them.
        
       | peacedb wrote:
       | I used to think this too, but I changed my mind when a few years
       | ago my sister wanted to play and I told her why it was a bad game
       | because it's just based on luck, but I played anyway. She ended
       | up getting something like 20 gimmels in a row and I got like 20
       | peys in a row, even after switching dreidels multiple times, and
       | even switching where I was sitting, it was honestly one of the
       | strangest moments of my life, it was as if god was completely
       | rigging it against me. I think the lesson was that dreidel isn't
       | about luck, it's about mazal.
        
         | hnuser123456 wrote:
         | Yep, my s.o. wanted to play skip-bo, which is also a game so
         | simple that it's just luck of the draw, and I lost 7 games
         | straight after lamenting the randomness of it before we even
         | started, which isn't as impressive of a streak as 20 but still,
         | I understand that feeling.
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | > also a game so simple that it's just luck of the draw
           | 
           | See also: Candyland.
        
         | WorkerBee28474 wrote:
         | 4.0^(20+20) = 1.2e24
         | 
         | Assuming that, over history, a billion Jews have lived and spun
         | a dreidel a trillion times, it's safe to reject the null
         | hypothesis of this being random and accept the alternate
         | hypothesis that G-d exists and He wanted you to lose.
        
       | linenmerchant wrote:
       | Mathematically proving why a Jewish game is bad, is the most
       | Jewish game there is!
        
         | robertlagrant wrote:
         | Counterpoint: a game that's mostly about passing time and good
         | conversation is the most Jewish game there is.
        
         | khazhoux wrote:
         | Two gentiles bump into each other on the street.
         | 
         | The first says: How was the party last night?
         | 
         | The other replies: Great!
         | 
         | Lol
        
       | halflife wrote:
       | Odd, as an Israeli Jew I've never heard of this game.
       | 
       | Fun fact for our fellow gentiles, the letter on the dreidel are
       | different in Israel vs the rest of the world. In the US for
       | example:
       | 
       | n - ns - miracle
       | 
       | g - gdvl - great
       | 
       | h - hyh - was
       | 
       | sh - shm - there
       | 
       | In Israel the final letter is replaced with:
       | 
       | p - ph - here
       | 
       | Meaning that the miracle has happened in Israel.
        
       | binarymax wrote:
       | Not as boring when the chocolate coins become shots of schnapps.
       | 
       | Thanks for the sequel! Looking forward to next year's article
       | when you get around to writing PRISM as a compiler target.
        
       | senkora wrote:
       | Is dreidel typically played to completion?
       | 
       | I always kinda assumed that play would stop at a point where the
       | chocolate coins were unevenly distributed but all players were
       | still in the game, because it seems unsatisfying to give
       | chocolate to a child and then take it all away.
       | 
       | Or perhaps players would eat chocolates as they played, which
       | serves the dual purpose of making sure that everyone enjoys some
       | chocolate and hastening the end of the game, with the victor
       | earning all the leftover chocolate as a prize for later.
        
         | binarymax wrote:
         | Maybe the creators purposefully designed the game to take
         | forever and keep the kids occupied, so the parents could spend
         | time debating Talmud without interruption.
        
       | gryphonclaw wrote:
       | Yeah, the game kind of drags if you do just 1 piece in the pot
       | per player when empty. Usually when I play it with my family we
       | do at least 2 pieces, and also work out extra gimmicks like loans
       | with interest to players down on their luck (very Jewish I know).
       | Still not the most thrilling of games, but fun to play every
       | year.
        
         | llimos wrote:
         | _with interest?!_ Oy vey, not very Jewish at all!
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | > If you don't have a dreidel, you can instead use a four-sided
       | die, but for the authentic experience you should wait eight
       | seconds before looking at your roll.
       | 
       | This made me literally laugh out loud. There is no better way to
       | describe waiting for the dreidel.
        
       | Terr_ wrote:
       | I'd like to see this kind of analysis applied towards a practical
       | question resembling:
       | 
       | "If I let kids=4 play each starting with chocolates=10 for
       | minutes=30 before terminating the game, what kinds of outcomes
       | should I expect and will any of them involve a loser throwing a
       | tantrum?"
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | I've been playing dreidel for 40+ years. I've never played a game
       | to completion. But that's not really the point of the game. The
       | point is it's a way to distribute chocolate while teaching a
       | little bit about probability and game theory.
       | 
       | We usually boxed it to about 10 minutes max. So everyone mostly
       | got the same amount of chocolate, and some people did a little
       | better than others. And then you went to mom and dad for a
       | "bailout" because it wasn't fair that your little brother got
       | more than you.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-12-18 23:00 UTC)