[HN Gopher] Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)
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       Lou's Pseudo 3D Page (2013)
        
       Author : whereistimbo
       Score  : 146 points
       Date   : 2024-12-18 04:45 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.extentofthejam.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.extentofthejam.com)
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | Popular in
       | 
       | 2016 (115 points, 12 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14017574
       | 
       | 2015 (148 points, 26 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8847063
        
       | a1o wrote:
       | I implemented this in Adventure Game Studio following that page
       | seven years ago.
        
       | blackfur wrote:
       | This page is such a gem. I stumbled upon it many years ago, when
       | making a classic pseudo-3D racing game for a hacked (and very
       | underpowered) graphing calculator. Never ended up finishing it
       | though. Turns out without debugging, floating point calculations
       | or any real knowledge of C you struggle.
        
       | komadori wrote:
       | As far as old-school 3D effects go, I like this tutorial on ray
       | casting: https://permadi.com/1996/05/ray-casting-tutorial-1/
       | 
       | It's great to see something similar on the effects used in
       | driving games, which I always imagined to be akin to raycasting's
       | vertical slices drawn horizontally.
        
       | Netcob wrote:
       | I love the ingenuity, I also love youtube documentaries on this
       | topic, but... as a child (in the 90s), I did not like these
       | pseudo 3D racing games at all!
       | 
       | Mode 7 on the SNES was usually fine. I don't know how accurately
       | it rendered a single flat surface in 3D, but it felt real enough
       | and responsive enough. Except for the very rare cases where they
       | simulated non-flat surfaces (Speed Racer, Super Off-Road), even
       | though that was technically much more impressive.
       | 
       | The effect just didn't work for me - it didn't feel like turning,
       | it just felt like what it was: The game displaying a "left turn"
       | animation and telling you that your car will now start drifting
       | to the right if you don't press left. And that felt more like
       | playing a Game&Watch toy.
        
         | InsideOutSanta wrote:
         | IMO it greatly depends on the game. Very advanced games that
         | used this technique, like OutRun in the arcade, really almost
         | feel like you're driving on a road with real turns. Lotus Turbo
         | Challenge on the Amiga also does a pretty good job giving you
         | the illusion that you're actually approaching turns, i.e. that
         | there is a turn ahead of you and it is coming towards you.
         | 
         | But most games that implemented this technique were much more
         | primitive, and just amounted to "bending" the road to indicate
         | turns, which never feels like there's actually a turn coming
         | towards you. It just feels like the road is suddenly changing
         | its shape. But that's not an inherent fault of the technique,
         | it's just a poor implementation.
         | 
         | I do agree that Mode7 games, which effectively display an
         | almost correctly rendered 3D plane, are generally a much better
         | experience.
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | Pit Stop II on the C64 felt like you had force feedback on a
           | digital joystick, no less!
        
         | frou_dh wrote:
         | I agree. Even at the time, many of the games that look like
         | this felt like you were being dragged around the track, and
         | just finessing it a bit with the controller input.
         | 
         | It's not a good feeling as a player when a game mostly plays
         | itself and gives you some token involvement.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | Lotus III on the Amiga did the mountain tracks almost af if
           | they had some height and so due to the bending effect from
           | the guard rails and being able to see the actual cliffs at
           | the sides. OTOH, curves were better than the average 16 bit
           | racer, as you could step a bit offroad from the curve, but
           | not so much. But it gave the game some believability.
           | 
           | Also, the patched Road Rash 1-2-3 ROMs for the Mega Drive run
           | much better with far more frames, and neither any
           | overclocking is required at all, nor any extra hardware. That
           | make them very good on simulating pseudo-3D races.
        
       | elevationapi wrote:
       | I remember Vroom killing the game on Atari ST :
       | https://youtu.be/Z-RELFjDu_8?si=giyiDpRqUPNSNEK9 Insane depth of
       | view with fluidity for the time
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | Excellent.
        
         | mysterydip wrote:
         | There's a new racing game that just came out for the ST that
         | achieved 50FPS: https://retroracing.itch.io/faster-atari-ste
        
         | TapamN wrote:
         | Also on the Sega Genesis/MegaDrive as F1 World Championship,
         | and a sequel, Kawasaki Superbike Challenge.
        
       | erickhill wrote:
       | Prepare to qualify...
        
       | MaximilianEmel wrote:
       | When does Pseudo 3D cross the threshold into Real 3D?
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | What makes these techniques "pseudo" 3D is that they can only
         | render one very specific type of scene (a road), and even then
         | only under various constraints (road must be in front of the
         | camera, road must continue to the horizon, etc). "Real 3D"
         | typically implies a more general scene renderer.
        
       | zackmorris wrote:
       | Kinda cool, I've never seen these techniques all in one place
       | before. Growing up, I thought that SNES mode 7 scaling was so
       | cool:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_7
       | 
       | The article mentions about halfway down the page that what made
       | the 80s road rendering technique possible was racing the beam.
       | Where say an Atari 2600 would toggle the color at certain pixel
       | counts as the TV's electron beam swept the screen, producing
       | graphics that seemed otherwise impossible from such underpowered
       | hardware:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_the_Beam
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJFnWZH5FXc
       | 
       | Some engines allowed for say 8 hardcoded sprites this way by
       | toggling colors at each sprite's position, with various rules
       | about overlapping, so sprites would flicker sometimes when they
       | were next to each other.
        
       | toolslive wrote:
       | The screenshots are a blast from the past. Outrun, Space
       | Harrier... Those were really good games back in the day (1980s)
        
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       (page generated 2024-12-18 23:01 UTC)