[HN Gopher] Always go to the funeral (2005)
___________________________________________________________________
Always go to the funeral (2005)
Author : NaOH
Score : 470 points
Date : 2024-12-16 22:04 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
| strict9 wrote:
| I agree with this completely.
|
| A small but important suggested addition: if it's someone who's
| funeral you would go to, tell that person _now_ what they mean to
| you. Then they can hear it while they are still alive.
|
| It is not a given that you will have enough time to tell them
| later.
| dylan604 wrote:
| sometimes, not going to the funeral is the message to be said
| and saying it to them "now" is considered rude. clearly, the
| message of not attending is being said to others not to the
| person, but you get the gist
| elzbardico wrote:
| The person died, what message can you want to send to a dead
| person. He/She is dead. He can't hear it. But you can forgive
| and believe me, feel better about whatever happened that made
| you want to send a message that would never be received.
| dylan604 wrote:
| > what message can you want to send to a dead person
|
| you ask me that after I said "clearly, the message of not
| attending is being said to others not to the person, but
| you get the gist"
|
| so clearly, you didn't get the gist. not attending says
| something to the other friends/family that did attend. the
| knee jerk reaction is "what an asshole to not attend"
| typically followed by "I wonder what happened that would
| make them not attend". then the gossiping begins and the
| person sending the message smiles a wry smile
| elzbardico wrote:
| Yeah, I got that. It is just that I think it is now
| pointless. Like, he/she is dead.
| dylan604 wrote:
| why do you keep referring to the dead person like that's
| the point of the not going? you're sending a message to
| those that do go by not going. the subject of the message
| is the deceased not the recipient.
| elzbardico wrote:
| Ah. I thought you had a beef with the dead.
|
| Ok. I can respect that.
|
| It is just that as I was thinking the dead was the
| target, it would be better to make sure you get whatever
| retribution while he is alive.
| lordnacho wrote:
| Big life events are always worth a visit if you get invited, and
| you always learn something from the mix of people who attend.
| Whether it's a funeral, wedding, baptism, and so on.
|
| Does this person have friends from childhood? Do his friends come
| from the same place, or all sorts of places? Do they know each
| other, or does he have a lot of singletons there?
|
| Who considers themselves close family? Second cousins? Or did
| their cousins not even come?
|
| How well represented are various social classes?
|
| I always find these things super interesting when I go to one of
| these.
| consf wrote:
| Funerals, especially, tell stories without words
| santoshalper wrote:
| Do the right thing even when you really don't want to is a
| valuable lesson, but I'm not sure I believe that the right thing
| to do is attend funerals for people who you were not actually
| close to. It feels extremely insincere.
| massysett wrote:
| It's not just whether you were close to the deceased; it's do
| you know the survivors. I've attended funerals where I never
| met the deceased but knew a survivor.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Yeah. Went with my cousin-in-law to his grandmother's
| funeral. I had maybe met her twice. It wasn't for her. Meant
| a lot to him, though.
| sellmesoap wrote:
| I've gone to the funeral of a community leader who I only met a
| couple of times, but the stories of their life and seeing how
| they had touched the people around them was inspiring and I
| hold those stories dearly and feel the loss of the community.
| Hardly insincere.
| bloodyplonker22 wrote:
| I've attended the funerals of my enemies just to pay my
| respects for the rivalry that we had.
| tivert wrote:
| > I've attended the funerals of my enemies just to pay my
| respects for the rivalry that we had.
|
| What? You have _enemies_? Like the Joker and Batman or Lex
| Luthor and Superman?
|
| Honestly, to me, that word describes a kind of relation that
| mainly exists in comic books and between nation states.
| schmookeeg wrote:
| I have a few folks who I felt wronged me significantly in
| my life's travels, and they take a bit of rent-free space
| in my head every once in awhile.
|
| I don't actively search for their obits or anything, but if
| I learned about a funeral, I'd make the time to visit,
| stand quietly, and reflect.
|
| Probably not the healthiest thing, but not my unhealthiest
| quality either. At the moment it is only theoretical. But I
| can think of 3 or 4 I'm now likely to google up and see
| what they're up to and assess who is closer to the pine
| box. :)
| tivert wrote:
| > I have a few folks who I felt wronged me significantly
| in my life's travels, and they take a bit of rent-free
| space in my head every once in awhile.
|
| Do you have grudge against those people, such that put
| effort into trying to undermine or defeat them? I feel
| the word "enemy" has connotations of a kind of direct,
| sustained opposition that just seems like it'd be really
| unusual (and unhealthy) in real life.
| einpoklum wrote:
| A valid point and a good approach. But it's quite a bad pun when
| used as a title here on HN - and with the capitalization, too.
| lupire wrote:
| What pun/title?
| einpoklum wrote:
| "Always Go", like the programming language. But - I see the
| editors changed the capitalization, so it's good that you
| didn't notice.
| mooreds wrote:
| Wholeheartedly agree with both the nominal and underlying advice
| here.
|
| Doing the right thing all the time is painful, tedious and can
| cost you. But doing the wrong thing will cost you too. Both
| compound.
|
| The literal advice about going to the funeral is about showing up
| for people who meant something to you. There are only a few
| special times in your life when you get to see a large chunk of
| other people's important people:
|
| * graduations
|
| * coming of age ceremonies
|
| * weddings
|
| * funerals
|
| Being there gives you a special chance to know the person better.
| Just do it.
| aziaziazi wrote:
| I'd love too but a crowd -even mostly loved ones- is for some
| the hardest way to engage with others. Last weddings I tried to
| attempt were disasters. Funerals are obviously easier as
| no/weirdly-interacting is accepted so at least there's less
| self esteem to loose. I feel the more confortable in one or one
| to one, three is already to much possible micro-ostracisms to
| deal with.
|
| To end with a lighter note loosely related, a funny citation of
| the marshal Foch:
|
| > "An assembly must have an odd number of members in order to
| make a decision, but three is already too many."
| antonchekhov wrote:
| "other people's important people" is a very astute phrase - one
| has to see the value in that concept in order to understand the
| deceased's survivors that you think you already know. I've been
| to a few events where some folks were flabbergasted to discover
| different fresh aspects of the deceased - "what the...? He/she
| was tight with _that_ crowd?! "
| SoftTalker wrote:
| I wonder how many people have lived a secret side of their
| life and finally get outed at their funeral, to the shock of
| the people who only knew one side.
| coldpie wrote:
| > Just do it.
|
| I've tried, man. I'm deeply uncomfortable in social situations,
| and events with lots of wacky, nonsense traditions and rules
| that I don't understand makes things exponentially worse. Going
| to events like weddings and graduations makes me utterly
| miserable. I feel like shit for days before & afterwards, and I
| always regret going for months & years afterwards. I guess
| there's a chance someone there is glad I'm off being miserable
| in a corner, but I doubt it. So I've mostly stopped going to
| these things.
| smitty1e wrote:
| Ecclesiastes 7:4 "The heart of the wise is in the house of
| mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth."
|
| https://bible.com/bible/1/ecc.7.4.KJV
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| My dad is an atheist but he believes in that. He hates seeing
| other people happy
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| The House of Mirth would be a great name for a bar, or a
| theater. Or anything, really.
|
| Come to think of it, so would The Heart of Fools.
| antonchekhov wrote:
| Coincidentally there is literally the novel "The House of
| Mirth" by Edith Wharton - published in 1905, it's an
| excellent late-Victorian/Gilded-Age period novel about the
| slow downfall of Lily Bart, a woman who was in New York's
| high society, then through a series of unfortunate events and
| social reproaches, descended into lonely poverty. It was
| quite influential at the time, portraying the materialism and
| shallowness of the moneyed crowd.
| aantix wrote:
| There's been a lot more reflective, humanity stories on HN.
|
| Or maybe I'm just noticing more.
|
| I've been on HN since 2007.
|
| There was that story a few weeks ago with the aging parents and
| their daughter that took a picture of them waving goodbye, each
| year she visited.
|
| I like these stories. It gives me pause and to wonder what it's
| all been for.
|
| Probably for my kids. My second oldest (9) loves creating levels
| in Geometry Dash. He'll probably be an engineer.
|
| He asks great questions. He can teach himself new tricks from
| YouTube videos. He asks for critical feedback on his levels.
| That's a good start.
|
| I'm just rambling.
| khoo wrote:
| I feel like the major life events always put our life span into
| a perspective that otherwise might be missed or overlooked. It
| makes life feel shorter than it is.
|
| Btw, which post are you referring to? I am curious to read it
| as well.
| speg wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42113113
| fuzzy_biscuit wrote:
| I like seeing these on HN. Occasionally the hyper focus on tech
| makes me feel inhuman. Stories like these remind me not to
| forget how much else there is beyond my narrow world as a web
| dev.
|
| You kid sounds amazing. Be proud and ramble on.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| We're aging. This is becoming more appealing.
| anal_reactor wrote:
| There are three groups of people on HN:
|
| - kids who just graduated and realize that they've been told
| lies and need some life advice
|
| - midlife crisis
|
| - retirees who can see the death slowly approaching and
| reevaluate their lives in panic
| jjw1414 wrote:
| Which group are you in?
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| Personally I intend to have as many midlife crises as I can
| afford
| lambdaphagy wrote:
| Sound advice. Conversely: always have a funeral.
|
| I know several people who expressed a wish not to have a funeral.
| Sometimes this wish stems from a desire not to be an
| inconvenience, or a sense of guilt or shame that one's life was
| not well-lived. Sometimes, simply the view that funerals don't
| matter, so why bother.
|
| In every case, I think this desire is mistaken. The need to mourn
| the dead is an instinct older than our species itself, and in
| dismissing it we wound the people closest to us.
|
| If you're the sort of person to whom the idea of skipping your
| own funeral sounds tempting, I kindly ask you for the sake of
| your loved ones that you reconsider.
| lupire wrote:
| I don't think a significant number of people have ever written
| a will that actively prevented a funeral. A funeral doesn't
| require the deceased. It's fine to skip it.
| lambdaphagy wrote:
| Maybe a more charitable reading is: "make every good faith
| effort to cooperate with your family's attempts to mourn your
| death"
| jfengel wrote:
| A memorial service is a very good thing to do, for those left
| behind.
|
| The body does not need to be present for a memorial, as it is
| for a funeral. That makes it a somewhat easier event to
| arrange.
| blahedo wrote:
| Yes, agreed. My dad said he didn't want a wake or funeral---I
| think he didn't want to put anyone out---but we overruled him,
| because the services weren't _for him_. Once he thought about
| that, he agreed (and gave some input on their planning, which
| was interesting). In the end it brought together a lot of
| people who hadn 't seen each other in a very long time, which I
| appreciated, and I got to hear some stories I'd never heard
| before, which I also appreciated, and it made the whole process
| just feel a lot easier to deal with.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| I (politely) disagree. My father did not wish a funeral, and,
| per his wishes, we did not hold one for him.
|
| And honestly, standing at his gravesite paying my respects, I
| do _not_ have the painful memories that I had with my mother 's
| funeral, trying to organize, trying to handle everyone and
| everything, and not being able to grieve in the way that I
| wanted until long after. Instead, I am able to simply talk to
| him, and not have such a frustrating coda.
|
| They say that funerals are for the living. Sure. But going to
| funerals of loved ones has never made me feel better in the
| long run compared to more private goodbyes, and I am not the
| only one to feel this way.
| cheema33 wrote:
| I am in this camp. I have been to the funerals of loved ones
| and once helped arrange one for a close family member. It was
| a very stressful affair.
|
| But I also recognize that other people got more out of it
| than did I. They cried and hugged and shared memories. That
| experience I am assuming was very valuable to them. But not
| to me. I was stressed the entire time. The lesson I learned
| was that funerals are valuable to some while not others.
| o11c wrote:
| > By the time I was 16, I had been to five or six funerals.
|
| Is it just me or does this actually seem kind of _low_?
|
| They say your social cluster is 150 people, so you should be
| going to about 2 funerals _every_ year (this ignores age-
| clustering, but that 's counterbalanced by the fact that you
| often go to funerals slightly outside your cluster and the fact
| that the cluster changes over time).
| dennis_jeeves2 wrote:
| >Is it just me or does this actually seem kind of low?
|
| Yes, it's low.
| lupire wrote:
| Some of us had our family dispatched in bulk, but thanks.
| zamadatix wrote:
| E.g. the article is about their 5th grade math teacher.
| jfengel wrote:
| I don't know if I'd go to the funerals of all 150 people in my
| set. Most of them are acquaintances rather than friends or
| family.
|
| I go to much fewer than 2 funerals per year. But now that I'm
| 55 it will likely start picking up.
| tivert wrote:
| >> By the time I was 16, I had been to five or six funerals.
|
| > Is it just me or does this actually seem kind of low?
|
| Not for someone who's young and mostly disconnected from their
| grandparents' generation. In my case, my family lived far away
| from pretty much all my relatives, which meant I'm not very
| close to any of them and going to a funeral meant lots of
| short-notice plane tickets.
|
| I think I've only gone to two funerals _in my life_ : one
| grandparent who died geographically close to use when I was a
| kid, and the father (who I never met) of a friend of mine.
|
| I think it would have been better if it had been different, and
| I had gone to more funerals, because now my lack of exposure
| adds a whole extra layer of awkwardness onto dealing with
| death.
| jerlam wrote:
| Even if I was close to my grandparents' generation, I only
| have four of them and that number doesn't increase over time.
| I don't think I know 16 * 2 = 32 people of my grandparents'
| generation, especially not now, way past my teenage years.
| tivert wrote:
| > Even if I was close to my grandparents' generation, I
| only have four of them and that number doesn't increase
| over time.
|
| The scenario I was thinking of to get to more than "five or
| six" funerals by age 16, was to have "always go to the
| funeral" parents who took you to the funerals of
| grandparents and great aunts/uncles living nearby.
| seryoiupfurds wrote:
| Really? I'm in my 30s and I've been to fewer than that.
|
| > They say your social cluster is 150 people
|
| Maybe yours is.
| blahedo wrote:
| My sister and I were talking about this recently (at a funeral
| in our family). We're in our 40s, and people older than us had
| largely been to a dozen funerals or more by their teenage
| years, while people younger than us often went to their first
| in their 20s or later (or perhaps when their own parents or
| grandparents died and to no others). We have not-entirely-
| negative memories of growing up going to funerals, because
| that's where we saw and caught up with extended family, so
| funerals are... well, not exactly easy, but they're not
| traumatic in their own right. For some of our slightly younger
| friends, though, even attending the wake and funeral in _our_
| family, _they_ were having a harder time than we were. And
| almost none of our cousins brought their kids. For the author,
| six by 16 probably was a lot more than any of her friends, yes.
|
| It's an interesting shift. A loss, I think.
| smeej wrote:
| I was forbidden from going to my great-grandmother's funeral
| with my parents even though I was 11 and an extremely well-
| disciplined child. "We want you to remember her as she lived,
| not as she died" was the reason given at the time, but
| leaving me out of the event where people were remembering her
| as she lived didn't make sense to me.
|
| When my grandfather died when I was 15, not only wasn't I
| allowed to go, but I had to stay home and watch my siblings
| as my parents traveled a thousand miles away for a week. We
| more than had the money for plane tickets. They just didn't
| want to bring us (youngest was 10, and also not troublesome).
|
| For my other older relatives, they've all insisted on not
| having services, and I can't help but feel it's both an
| effect and a cause of the fact that my extended family is
| very disconnected and fragmentary.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| Okay, same here. It's not like I'm cutting people off
| because I'm a millennial.
|
| My parents are / were just very distant from their
| families, didn't make much effort to tie their children
| into their adult social networks, etc.
|
| I went to the only funeral I was ever invited to lol.
| D13Fd wrote:
| Honestly that seemed really high to me. I went to my first
| funeral at 41. I did go to a couple of viewings/wakes before
| that. I'm not religious, and I guess I just don't know enough
| people who would invite me to a funeral.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| I'm almost 60 and have only been to a handful of funerals.
| One or two as a kid for my grandparents who I don't even
| really remember, one in high school for a friend, and a few
| other relatives and friends on my wife's side of the family.
| michaelt wrote:
| Generally the number of your friends who have funerals is
| heavily biased towards the end of your life.
|
| America's average lifespan is 77. When you're 16, your parents
| are perhaps 46, and _their_ parents are maybe 76.
|
| And a lot of people live for 10+ years after retirement, so
| your teachers might all be alive too.
|
| If you've got a big extended family, or you're part of an
| organisation like a church where 16 year olds come are getting
| to know 70+ year olds, you might have gone to more than 6
| funerals.
|
| But generally? At 16 your parents, their friends, your aunts
| and uncles, your 16 year old friends, their parents? Good
| chance they're all still alive. Your grandparents - maybe,
| maybe not.
| bluGill wrote:
| Your grandparents also have siblings, and your parents would
| drag you to those funerals. You should also have people of
| many different ages in your social group and some of them
| will die of old age (and once in a while someone young).
| sanderjd wrote:
| > _You should also have people of many different ages in
| your social group_
|
| "Should" seems right, but in practice, _do_ young people
| have this? How? (Thinking of the US here.)
|
| When I was a kid, this came through church. But church
| attendance among the young has fallen off a cliff, with (to
| my knowledge) no replacement.
| wat10000 wrote:
| I'm in my 40s and I've been to four, for each of my
| grandparents. That age clustering thing seems very important to
| me. For most of my life, my grandparents were the only people I
| knew well who were around that age.
|
| Even now, there aren't anywhere near 150 people whose funeral
| I'd attend.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Depends on your relative age and family size. For me, my 40s
| are for funerals like my late 20s were for weddings.
|
| Nowadays many families have just one or two kids and everyone
| is spread over all of country and world.
| dspillett wrote:
| Sounds within the right range to me. By that time I think I'd
| have been to five that I remember (a great-grandparent, a
| grandparent, an uncle, a great aunt, a school friend who was
| skittled on his morning paper-round). There may have been
| others that I was too young at the time to remember now.
|
| For me, funerals and similar services are more for family and
| close (or at least close-ish) friends. My social cluster might
| number 150, but there are many in it for whom I'll pass on my
| regards & regrets from afar rather than attending a funeral or
| wake.
|
| Are you attending 2 funerals _every_ year, even averaged over a
| couple of decades to allow for clustering? I can think of one
| year when there were three, but that nowhere near makes up for
| the years when there were none or just one.
| o11c wrote:
| I'm not sure I'm quite hitting 2, but it's pretty close. I
| just sat down and made a list purely from memory, and got 1
| per year since I started persisting memories. And I _have_ to
| be forgetting some.
|
| In fact, the actual number includes a significant _decrease_
| due to excluding "funerals I would've gone to if I didn't
| have a more important funeral to go to" and "people who moved
| away before they died". Thankfully in recent years remote
| recording is usually a thing in some form (live or not, video
| or just audio; the quality depends significantly on the
| funeral home).
| sanderjd wrote:
| I was going to write this at the top level because I hadn't
| seen anyone make this point yet:
|
| The thing that made me sad about this article is that it made
| me realize how lacking I am in community. My eldest child is
| six, and I can't think of more than a couple people who are
| likely to pass from natural causes by the time she is sixteen,
| who we are close enough with to definitely know about their
| funeral. And I have no idea how we would find out about the
| funerals of people we aren't so close to. It's not like there
| is a local paper with obituaries that we read...
|
| Of course the elephant in the room is that when I was a kid,
| the coordinating organization for this was my family's church.
| Without having that community fixture, I find myself unsure how
| this sort of thing actually works.
| unholyguy001 wrote:
| You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is to
| go to the funeral
|
| You should do it for yourself, out of respect for the person who
| died and respect for the loved ones remaining. Not out of
| societal obligation
|
| The corollary to that is there are plenty of times where the
| right thing is to not go to the funeral. If you lack those
| things.
|
| There have been times I don't go the funeral. Because the dead
| person was a horrible person. When people asked, I said exactly
| that and many times the response I got was "man I wish I had not
| gone"
| the_snooze wrote:
| >You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is
| to go to the funeral
|
| More broadly, your actions are a reflection of your values. If
| there's a mismatch, then one of two things must be true: you
| fell short of your ideals and you should strive to do better in
| the future, or your stated values really aren't your values.
| D13Fd wrote:
| > There have been times I don't go the funeral. Because the
| dead person was a horrible person.
|
| The funeral is a ritual for the people who knew and loved the
| dead person. The question should really be about them, rather
| than the deceased who is dead and gone.
| plorkyeran wrote:
| And if those people are going to be talking about how great
| someone I despised was, it's best for all of us if I stay
| home.
| throwaway346434 wrote:
| Slightly disagree, only in that the people who supported
| the horrible person should hear the terrible acts done.
| Otherwise, yes. No comfort to those who comfort/enable
| abusers.
| soco wrote:
| I hear this argument again and again, that the dead was
| despised thus the funeral should not be attended. Really
| folks, if all people you know are to be despised, then
| maybe the problem is not with them? Sure, there always is
| the occasional asshole, but it's not always the one in the
| coffin, so indeed then there might be times when we should
| just stay home for the better of everybody.
| NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
| You aren't punishing the dead person by not going. Just
| punishing what friends and family he or she had, out of spite.
| Making enemies. I mean when you say "horrible person" you're
| not talking about Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot, you're just talking
| about someone you thought (rightly or wrongly) an asshole.
|
| Now you've made yourself the asshole to other people. Not a
| great life strategy.
| qup wrote:
| You made a lot of assumptions in your post just so you could
| wag your finger at the GP.
| NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
| I assumed that the deceased wasn't Pol Pot.
|
| Was there another assumption?
| lambdaphagy wrote:
| I recently had the occasion to visit the deathbed of a relative
| who died with much of his family deeply wounded by, and angry
| at, him. Had you known him, you might have called him a
| horrible person and not without some backing for that claim.
|
| But I went because I felt a duty to my relatives that isn't
| released just because they didn't hold up their end of the
| bargain: he had indirectly given me life, even if he had done
| much ill besides. And moreover I felt an obligation to the
| _office_ of the head of my family that transcended the
| particular man.
|
| It would be a grim world in which comfort for the grieving is a
| service the deceased must have earned in advance, and we the
| comforters decide whether they have really earned it.
| I-M-S wrote:
| By being too lenient towards those who have not deserved it,
| we are being unjust towards those who have.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is
| to go to the funeral. You should do it for yourself, out of
| respect for the person who died and respect for the loved ones
| remaining. Not out of societal obligation_
|
| In 2024 it would be quite better if we did more things out of
| societal obligation, instead of each individual placing
| themselves (and their whims) as the moral authority.
| anal_reactor wrote:
| I'm tired, boss
| coldtea wrote:
| You haven't tried...
| brabel wrote:
| A world where people only do what they want or feel like
| doing is indeed a pretty depressing world, I know because
| that's exactly the world I am living in. The world I grew up
| on was very different, and I absolutely miss it - Christmas
| parties, lots of birthday parties, church events, school
| events, local neighbourhood events... you name it, there were
| lots of things to do and go to and you were expected to. I
| think half of the time I didn't really want to, but it didn't
| cross my mind to say I didn't want to go, and I think that
| was much, much better - today I barely go anywhere, but I
| know people also won't come if I call them :( it's just such
| a sad world.
| athenot wrote:
| These things still exist, but they sometimes take time to
| discover and even longer to gain a sense of belonging. I
| like to call them "tribes" but really it's just a
| community. Sometimes the intersection of your { interests +
| location } may _not_ have a vibrant community which happens
| to contain members who readily welcome new people, and so
| it requires a bit more effort.
|
| Some examples of communities I've been a part of over the
| years:
|
| - Family
|
| - Church groups
|
| - Bar buddies (overlapping with the previous category :))
|
| - Biker community
|
| - Startup community
|
| - Technology groups
|
| - Queer communities
|
| - Neighbor groups
|
| It was a lot harder to get into groups when I used to be
| introverted, I distinctly remember how afraid I was. My
| startup was the thing that forced me way out of my comfort
| zone and led me to learn how to overcome my fears of
| joining groups full of unknown people. The "ah-ha" moment
| was when I realized many others had the same fears and
| insecurities as I did, and yet that's ok.
| watwut wrote:
| > Not out of societal obligation
|
| Societal obligation in this case is literally basic minor
| respect towards the remaining people. And frankly, the
| loneliness epidemic HN like to talk about is closely related to
| the ideology where the only thing that matters is yourself.
| kayo_20211030 wrote:
| Always go to the funeral!
|
| It's not for you, and it's not for other people. It's just a
| thing. It's not an analogy about doing the right thing. It's just
| going to the funeral. That's what you should do, for lots of
| reasons. When you do it, you'll know why; maybe later, but you'll
| know.
| etskinner wrote:
| It definitely is for you and for other people. I challenge you
| to describe what it's for if not those two things
| steveBK123 wrote:
| It's also a matter of regret minimization.
|
| 9+ times out of 10 when I'm on the fence about going to a major
| life event and go, I'm glad I did. Can't think of the last thing
| I regretted going to.
|
| I've certainly missed some like graduations I regret not making
| it to.
|
| Funerals are towards the top of the list of big life events and
| I've never regretted one.
| XorNot wrote:
| Conversely I went to one high school reunion I was feeling iffy
| about, had an okay time but was also completely happy just
| never going to anymore (and haven't).
|
| But there's definitely some other effects in play there:
| revisiting people from your past who you've lost touch with is
| a pretty fraught experience, at least for me because ultimately
| the relationship is at best frozen in time from whenever you
| last talked: high school is particularly bad IMO, because it
| tends to feel like just trying not to be who you were a decade
| ago as everyone remembers you, rather then getting to be who
| you are now.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| I've never been to a high school reunion, and I don't intend
| to go to any future ones.
|
| But I went to a high school friend's 40th, and caught up with
| the people who were my good friends - and still are - and it
| was worth every penny just to hear their voices face to face
| for a few days.
| steveBK123 wrote:
| Agreed, I think a reunion differs in that its an impersonal
| gathering compared to coming of age, weddings, funerals,
| etc.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Same with social events. All my life, I always get this last
| second resistance to going, yet I'm always glad I went.
|
| The reasons my brain comes up with for why I shouldn't go are
| just lies.
|
| Just go. And take what you can get while the opportunities are
| still coming.
| consf wrote:
| That last-second resistance is so real. It's like your brain
| becomes a master negotiator for staying home
| anal_reactor wrote:
| That's bad advice to always go to social events. I tried to
| follow it in order to expand my social circle, but I ended up
| staying in places that sucked, with people I didn't like. I
| try to dedicate some effort to tell whether I actually want
| to attend or not, and then follow through. I follow my gut,
| but never change my mind after making the decision.
| soco wrote:
| Of course if the only offer you get is places who suck and
| people you don't like, it's a bummer. Although I don't
| think the OP meant that - going for going's sake. In a
| hypothetical situation when the place would be just okay
| and the people too, some people's brains (mine too) tend to
| say "meh don't bother, nothing stellar gonna happen
| anyway". That is the impulse we ought to fight: don't save
| yourself for exceptional events, but be surprised by the
| small pleasures in regular ones. And still avoid the bad
| ones, that goes without saying.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| I don't think that's a counterpoint. That's just the
| reality of taking a chance in life. Just go.
|
| It's like saying it's bad advice to approach women because
| of some bad experiences you had. Meanwhile the next woman
| you meet might be your wife.
| consf wrote:
| The cost of showing up is usually small but the cost of not
| showing up can linger forever.
| pjmorris wrote:
| About 25 years ago, a friend offered 'Prioritize things that
| only happen once in life' as an idea for helping me decide
| whether to go to my friend's wedding or an important work
| event. The wedding was great, and the idea has been useful in
| many other situations, none more so that funerals.
| jaydeegee wrote:
| Funerals aren't for the one who passed they're for the ones left
| behind. Be there for the ones left behind and remember you are
| one of the ones left behind.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| Clever marketing by the funeral services industry.
|
| And no, I don't want my last act on Earth to be inconveniencing
| people.
| ksenzee wrote:
| > I don't want my last act on Earth to be inconveniencing
| people.
|
| There's no way around that. Death inconveniences the living.
| Your death will probably make a mess of some kind. Your dead
| body will have to be buried or cremated, or it will be an even
| bigger inconvenience. Your effects will have to be split up
| among the living in some way.
|
| And if you find funerals to be an inconvenience, don't go. But
| don't kid yourself into thinking that everyone will be happier
| if you insist on no funeral. Many of us want to gather with
| everyone else who cared about the person who died, and it feels
| strange and wrong to be denied the opportunity. Funerals are
| for the living anyway. Let the living make their own decisions
| about what events they want to hold and attend.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| >> There's no way around that.
|
| But that could be minimized. For example, by not taking
| precious square meters of Earth surface from the living.
|
| >> Your effects will have to be split up among the living in
| some way.
|
| That's not inconvenience :)
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| A funeral isn't the same thing as a burial.
| ksenzee wrote:
| > But that could be minimized. For example, by not taking
| precious square meters of Earth surface from the living.
|
| I understand and even agree with the sentiment here, but to
| me "I don't want to be buried" or "I don't want a funeral"
| is micromanaging. I've expressed a preference for as little
| inconvenience to the people I love and as little damage to
| the Earth as possible. My children or whoever else survives
| me can make whatever decisions work for them. I don't want
| my last act to be ordering them around. My dad, for
| example, had always planned to be buried, but when he was
| nearing death he suddenly said he wanted to be cremated,
| which was distressing to some of the family and was going
| to mean redoing a bunch of plans. When we asked him what
| was behind this sudden change of mind, it turned out he
| didn't actually care one way or the other, he'd just
| recently found out cremation was less expensive and he was
| trying to save us money. Turns out it's important to say
| what you really mean--"I love you and want to save you
| inconvenience and grief"--rather than "I don't want a
| funeral" or "I don't want to be buried" or whatever.
|
| > That's not inconvenience :)
|
| Heh. You must not have been executor of anyone's estate.
| It's pretty inconvenient. All I can hope for is to have
| enough money that it'll be worth it to whichever kid ends
| up doing it.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| As part of my plan of not inconveniencing anyone, I
| already doled out kids' inheritance in cash and real
| estate, and will donate the rest. I also rented 100-years
| storage at forever.com, so nobody has to deal with my old
| photos, memorabilia etc. Everything else is a matter of 2
| hours' work by a garbage disposal team. Executors can
| walk.
| throw_pm23 wrote:
| I predict your 100-years storage to last about 2 years.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| Wonna bet?
| throw_pm23 wrote:
| The counterparty risk is too large.
| foobarchu wrote:
| > That's not inconvenience
|
| It frequently is. In fact, it tends to be a more difficult
| form of grieving in my opinion because now they are forced
| to throw away things that were yours because they know
| nobody else wants them. Your bedding, your old spice
| cabinet, the magazines you never threw out. All of those
| are more for your heirs to deal with emotionally and
| physically.
| pessimizer wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_American_Way_of_Death
| throw4847285 wrote:
| OK, so go to the wake or the shiva or whatever. You don't have
| to buy into the funeral industrial complex to believe it's
| important to honor the dead.
|
| In fact, I think you have it exactly backwards. The industry
| popped up in order to exploit a deep human need. It did not
| create that need.
| throw_pm23 wrote:
| Why do you think it is an inconvenience for people to meet
| other people they know and/or like? You could see it as a last
| gift from you to bring them together.
| jmbwell wrote:
| You gotta go to people's funerals, otherwise they won't come to
| yours -- Yogi Berra
| gaoshan wrote:
| Larger message about doing the thing you really should do aside,
| ever since my parents dissuaded me from going to my grandfather's
| funeral (a man that I loved and respected but who's funeral came
| at an "inconvenient" time in my life) I have greatly regretted
| it. Not going burned itself into my mind and since that time I
| have never missed a funeral. Even for someone I only knew a
| little or hadn't seen in many years. If I had a connection with
| them, thought fondly of them, I make every effort to go. It just
| feels like the right thing to do.
| chairmansteve wrote:
| Yes. And always go to the wedding.
| felixnm wrote:
| The only regret I have in life (I'm in my mid-50s) is not
| attending the funeral of my friend's Mom. I didn't know her, so I
| figured I didn't have to go (I was in my early 20's, not that my
| age excuses anything). Another friend made me realize that I
| should've been there for my friend. After that, my friend moved
| away and things were never the same, no matter how hard I tried
| to keep in touch. Ever since, I always go to the wake/funeral.
| anonymousDan wrote:
| Yeah I'm the same, did it twice unfortunately.
| mgkimsal wrote:
| Similar here. Good friend of many years - his mother passed a
| few years back, then his dad earlier this year. In both cases
| it was relatively sudden, but the compounding factor is I live
| 800 miles away. In both cases, I debated whether to go up for
| the funeral, but one case scheduling was near impossible. In
| the other... I rationalized that... he'd just be too busy with
| other family issues, and that _was_ the case. I feel like I
| still should have gone, but we _did_ catch up in person a
| couple months later, and he 'd had time to process and reflect
| a bit more. Lots of drama was going on (and still is a bit) so
| being there in the moment might have been more about me trying
| to feel like I was doing something ("being there") instead of
| actually being of any real benefit for his family.
|
| I've only got a couple of other friends that close that I would
| consider attending their parents' funeral. One parent passed
| away during covid and there was no service. When that other
| parent passes, I think I will go, even though we've not seen
| each other in years. Several states away, again, but I will
| plan on going.
| ethagnawl wrote:
| > Ever since, I always go to the wake/funeral.
|
| I was going to add a top-level comment adding that there's a
| bit of nuance here between _the wake_ (calling hours, as the
| author puts it) and _the funeral_.
|
| I actually have a similar regret about not attending the
| _funeral_ for a friend's mother, although I did attend the
| wake. In retrospect, I absolutely should have gone to the
| funeral but, at least in the US, the expectations around who
| should attend _the funeral_ vary between
| religions/backgrounds/etc. and it can sometimes be hard to tell
| what the most appropriate move is. This is especially true if
| you're no longer/not very close to the family in question. Some
| families want _the funeral_ to be a more intimate, private
| affair and will sometimes even mention that it will be in the
| announcement.
|
| But, to your and the author's point, I think as a general rule,
| _going_ is the better bet.
| Etherlord87 wrote:
| Luke 9:60
|
| > Let the dead bury the dead
| bluGill wrote:
| We don't know for sure, but it is often said that the father
| wasn't dead in that story. That is the person in question was
| really saying "I don't want to tell my family what I'm doing,
| once they are gone I'll follow you". (timelines are not clear,
| but Jesus likely died a couple years latter so the opportunity
| to follow Jesus would have ended long before the parents died)
| searls wrote:
| As somebody whose dad died last night, this one hits hard.
| Sn0wCoder wrote:
| Sorry for your loss. Hope they lived a great life, and you can
| make it to the funeral.
| demarq wrote:
| That's terrible and I can't imagine how you feel, Sorry for
| your loss.
| elvis10ten wrote:
| Personal opinion: I find funerals to be a waste of time and
| money.
|
| Especially, coming from a culture where they are a big event.
| People spend enormous money on funerals --- money that they
| wouldn't help you with while you are alive and struggling.
|
| Maybe attending one in a less flamboyant culture will change my
| mind.
|
| But I wish more people in general don't wait for terminal events
| to do or say nice things.
| consf wrote:
| Showing up before the funeral is what makes showing up at the
| funeral matter more
| litenboll wrote:
| I shared your opinion until I attended my first funeral as an
| adult. They are very important for the grieving process, at
| least to me. That doesn't mean much money needs to be spent,
| I've only been to scaled down funerals where there's a short
| ceremony and a meal afterwards.
| throwaway346434 wrote:
| Eh. For children of less than stellar parents, a funeral is:
|
| - A bad person gets celebrated in a way that is not aligned
| to your understanding
|
| - A bunch of people who don't know about the less than
| stellar bits offering what feels like performative grief
|
| - Others who enabled the less than stellar bits angry their
| applecart has been upset, looking to lash out at a scapegoat.
|
| Obviously not everyone has this negative experience, but
| narcissism is in about 6.2-7.7% of the population; other
| "dark traits" are also around in a long tail. So it's not
| unreasonable to expect around 12-15%? of people risk a
| potential increase to trauma at an already complex time of
| their lives.
| wvlia5 wrote:
| Oh, 2 significant figures, you cherish your stats.
| bananatype wrote:
| It probably depends on one's culture. In the Philippines, it's
| customary for funeral visitors to give a small donation to the
| bereaved family members (typically, around 20-40 USD). And
| since funerals are considered a big social event, it's not
| uncommon to hear of fmilies who were able to recoup (or pay
| off) their funeral expenses through the donations alone.
| DHPersonal wrote:
| I feel much the same. I hope that when I die, the people around
| me will remember the many times that I have asked to have my
| body disposed of as quietly and cheaply as possible, and to not
| perform a funeral for me, and if they wish to use my death as
| an excuse to gather, to make the event as joyful as possible
| and as little about me as they can.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| The funeral industry is also very predatory. They know full
| well they have people in grief making decisions and they end up
| getting pressured into buying a casket that's just going to be
| buried in the ground in a few days, but they will be paying for
| for the next 10 years. That a family can come out of a funeral
| tens of thousands of dollars in debt is just absurd.
| mmooss wrote:
| Memorial rituals are universal to every human culture. It's a
| need in (almost) all of us.
|
| > ... I wish more people in general don't wait for terminal
| events to do or say nice things.
|
| I agree, but whatever you did earlier, that's not a reason to
| not do something now.
| begueradj wrote:
| Totally agree.
|
| In my culture (Berber), each time any of your relatives gets
| sick, you also must visit him/her and bring something with you
| for him/her (usually nice food/fruits and/or money).
| sneak wrote:
| Alternately; this anachronistic idea that not going to a
| religious ceremony is "the wrong thing" can be disregarded.
|
| I never attend funerals, and I rarely attend weddings. I skipped
| my father's funeral. It simply doesn't matter if you go or not.
| colanderman wrote:
| It matters a lot to those who are grieving.
|
| Consider that funerals may have developed over millennia as a
| component of the grieving process. There is nothing necessarily
| religious about them.
| throw_pm23 wrote:
| Reminded me of the famous quote by Twain: "When I was a boy of
| 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the
| old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at
| how much the old man had learned in seven years."
| consf wrote:
| Funny how we spend so much time optimizing the big things in life
| while it's often the small, inconvenient gestures that stick with
| people forever
| Neil44 wrote:
| Every time you go to a funeral you sit a bit closer to the front.
| ludwigvan wrote:
| A corollary of this is "Always visit when a baby is born."
|
| (In the first few months, if not at the hospital)
|
| I have noticed my love and respect for my friends who never
| visited after our newborn declined significantly, and it has
| never been the same. Does anyone have a similar experience?
| mettamage wrote:
| Thanks, this teaches me quite a bit. I will be more mindful of
| this
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| How much of this is due to them not visiting and how much is
| due to the change in dynamics though? Think it's conceivable
| them not wanting to see the baby early on or in the hospital
| might suggest a fairly critical divergence of interests
| xandrius wrote:
| Well, if you don't see someone for over a span of a year then
| probably you're not too close anymore?
|
| Then I'd assume that if 1 person had a really good reason not
| to be physically around for the first few months, you wouldn't
| think less of them if they make it up afterwards.
| sgt101 wrote:
| I had a friend who died young, I was young as well. I went to his
| funeral and there was an opportunity to speak about him and our
| memories of him. No one stood up to speak.
|
| It was awful. I wanted to stand up and say he was a good friend,
| and to say I would miss him, but I didn't.
|
| I've regretted that ever since - 30 years now, and I think about
| it frequently.
| wvlia5 wrote:
| But it's a somewhat odd custom no? Funerals. Probably no one
| stood up to talk because it felt awkward, as it is.
|
| It's not like you hurt your friends feelings for not speaking
| up.
| sgt101 wrote:
| It was my failure that hurt me, I think.
| wvlia5 wrote:
| I don't get why it is a failure.
| Tistron wrote:
| I see it as a strong example of what happens often. We
| have an impulse from what I will call our authenticity
| and we decline and suppress it because of some sort of
| fear. As I've learned to pay attention to this, I've
| found that it always leads to slight disconnection, and
| following instead tends to lead to more connection and
| aliveness.
|
| Every time we avoid the alive impulse is a failure of
| sorts, but usually we don't notice it like in this story
| above.
| wvlia5 wrote:
| Interesting. Do you think this other thing might be
| related?
|
| I usually supress emotions in order to perform, solve
| problems. I ignore all frustration, sadness, boredom and
| just focus or executing the steps to solve the current
| problem. Convinced that good performance is what leads to
| good quality of life.
|
| It's like the kid who jumps and cries around the father
| saying "I want to play". The father ignores him and says
| "go away, don't bother me please, I'm working", thinking
| "what he really needs is a nice house, food and clothes,
| that's why I work".
|
| But this has lead me to a pervasive state of
| unsatisfaction, even though I now have many shiny things
| to enjoy.
| zmgsabst wrote:
| I think it's related, but not in the way you're implying:
|
| He seems to view it as a personal failing that he _didnt_
| ignore the awkwardness to "solve the problem" of no one
| memorializing his friend and thinks about that inability
| to perform in the moment often, because he wants to be
| someone who can "rise to the occasion" in such moments.
|
| You seem to have a different problem, eg a bad work-life
| balance or lack of meaningful duties to perform.
| ngr wrote:
| This idea is also explored in The Anatomy of Peace by The
| Arbinger Institute. Reading it was truly transformative
| for me. It makes a strong point that we experience self-
| betrayal whenever we choose to ignore our moral compass
| and how this can harm our relationships.
| pmarreck wrote:
| "Fear-repressed authenticity" is something to gnaw on.
| hoseja wrote:
| Like 80% of your authentic urges have to be repressed to,
| erm, live in a society. It's then hard to find a good
| point to stop doing that.
| pmarreck wrote:
| I have a 3.5 year old son and the thought HAS occurred to
| me- "if we never learned to 'behave' (i.e., conform to
| societal norms), would we all just continue to be little
| selfish dopamine monsters?" lol
|
| You might say the foundation of polite society itself
| rests heavily on the shoulders of millions of weary
| parents with varying amounts of care and effort expended
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| Authenticity is not a great guide for living. Psychopaths
| are authentic, but no one of sound mind would praise them
| for it. Our motives are not always pure and good, and our
| culture's feels-before-reals elevation of "authenticity"
| into a supreme virtue has been a source of much grief.
|
| Now, having the courage to act according to what you
| _know_ by prudence is the right and just thing to do is
| something else. Here, you are acting according to what is
| objectively good, and not only that, but what you know is
| objectively good. And yes, you could say that acting out
| of genuine courage does make a person feel more alive, as
| he isn 't shrinking out of fear and cowardice. He is
| acting against the comfort of mediocrity, and as we all
| know, a little danger and risk does get the blood moving.
| criddell wrote:
| In another thread, the_snooze wisely pointed out that
| "your actions are a reflection of your values"[1].
|
| If you want to be a person who is part of a community,
| who cares for the people around them, and doesn't look at
| everything as a transaction, then you maybe go to a
| funeral even if you can't measure some benefit for
| yourself.
|
| [1]:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42436832
| mgkimsal wrote:
| I get it. I didn't say anything at my grandfather's
| funeral, although I was _this_ close. I just... didn 't.
| Easier in that moment to stay seated for a few extra
| seconds, but it bothered me. Years later, at my
| grandmother's funeral, I spoke. Not long, but I said some
| of the things I'd wanted to say years earlier, though with
| the benefit of a bit more hindsight and perspective. But
| not speaking all those years earlier had bothered me. FWIW,
| it still does, but a little less than before.
| nogridbag wrote:
| I have a phobia of these type of scenarios. During my
| career I've never had a problem presenting or doing demos
| for large groups. I've presented to high ranking military
| officials, company zooms, etc. No problem.
|
| Ask me to give a speech on the spot at my father's birthday
| party? I cower in fear. Same when my mother passed away. I
| wanted to say so many things, but I couldn't get over the
| anxiety. You're not alone.
| bumby wrote:
| It's okay to give yourself some reprieve. People are often
| not in their right mind when grieving.
|
| It's that time of year when It's a Wonderful Life shows up
| on TV. Have you ever seen the scene in the boardroom just
| after Jimmy Stewart's character's father died and left him
| the Building & Loan business? If you look closely, he's
| wearing a black arm band. That used to be customary as a
| way to signaling to people "I'm grieving, so please forgive
| me if I'm not in my right mind. Take what I say and do with
| a grain of salt."
|
| When I die, I would not want my friends to feel worse by
| regretting something they did or didn't do. I'm willing to
| bet your friend loved you enough to feel the same way.
| vitiral wrote:
| Funerals are an "odd custom"? What an entirely odd thing to
| say, I cannot imagine what you mean. Why is meditating on the
| passing of a friend, remembering their life and being present
| with the grief of their family "odd"??
| balfirevic wrote:
| I initially interpreted it to mean that expecting people to
| give impromptu speeches at funerals was an odd custom (that
| certainly doesn't happen where I live), but now I'm not so
| sure.
| bluGill wrote:
| Speaking at a funeral like that is an odd custom.
|
| Note that custom for funerals comes from the local culture
| and customs of how previous funerals are run. So that it
| isn't to you is just a reflection on your culture, other
| people come from different cultures where such a thing is
| not normal and because it is not normal- for their culture
| - it harms their meditations which would be done in the way
| they have grown up doing.
|
| As such I'm not making a statement of right and wrong for
| your culture, only that in OPs culture it is wrong and so
| asking for someone to speak like that was in fact wrong on
| the part of whoever asked. Whoever asked may well have come
| from a different culture where this behavior is normal and
| so made a mistake by not recognizing that they were in a
| different culture!
| mulmen wrote:
| > Speaking at a funeral like that is an odd custom.
|
| According to you. I'd be surprised if such an opportunity
| wasn't presented.
|
| > As such I'm not making a statement of right and wrong
| for your culture,
|
| Except to call it odd.
|
| > only that in OPs culture it is wrong and so asking for
| someone to speak like that was in fact wrong on the part
| of whoever asked.
|
| You brought up culture.
|
| This was clearly a case of an open mic. Nobody was
| _asking_ anyone to do anything. It's an opportunity to do
| so if you wish.
| bluGill wrote:
| > According to you
|
| No, according to what happened in that instance. If this
| was normal in the culture of that family someone would
| have gone to the mic.
|
| Do not confuse my culture with the culture in question.
|
| > I'd be surprised if such an opportunity wasn't
| presented.
|
| Which is a reflection on your culture.
|
| > Except to call it odd
|
| Again, odd in terms of that one particular culture.
|
| > This was clearly a case of an open mic
|
| A case of open mic in a cultural situation where an open
| mic was not supposed to happen.
| jzb wrote:
| As they are observed in the U.S., I'd argue they _are_ an
| odd custom, because it's so free-form.
|
| I'm old enough that I've been to a number of funerals --
| ranging from distant, much older family members when I was
| a kid, to funerals for an aunt not quite out of her 30s, a
| cousin not yet 20, and some friends or for family of my
| spouse.
|
| A lot of the time the customs are _unclear_. The services
| vary a lot. There's a great deal of uncertainty around
| "what should I do?" Because we don't have a coherent
| funerary custom here. We have plenty of conflicting ideas
| and expectations around funerals.
|
| So, on top of grief, you have the fear of "doing it wrong"
| and compounding someone's else's grief when you attend the
| funeral of a friend or family member. People have hurt
| feelings because friends and family members don't live up
| to their assumptions about what someone else should (or
| shouldn't) do at a funeral.
|
| In some ways, it'd be comforting if it were more scripted
| and you knew _exactly_ what you were expected to do, say,
| and so forth.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| It is odd to only offer 5 seconds for people who are crying
| to organize their thoughts and speak
| dfxm12 wrote:
| According to a Jerry Seinfeld bit, the fear of public
| speaking is the #1 fear. #2? Death. At a funeral, most people
| would rather be in the casket than delivering the eulogy!
|
| He delivers it better than me:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ6giVKp9ec
| zanderwohl wrote:
| My grandfather died a few years ago. By all accounts, he was
| opinionated, mean, and yelled at people a lot -- until a stroke
| humbled him.
|
| When it was time to speak, nobody got up to say anything, until
| I did. I mentioned so many of us had negative feelings about
| him, and then recalled what good things he did for us. That ice
| broken, several of my cousins also stood up and spoke.
|
| My uncle, who had arranged the funeral, closed it off by saying
| to everyone in the audience that if you wanted your own funeral
| to have more good stories, it was a good idea to patch
| relationships while still alive.
|
| I think I would have regretted not standing up to speak. My
| grandfather did good and bad -- he invented the type of
| artificial voicebox given to people with throat cancer. He
| performed lifesaving surgeries on hundreds of people. He also
| yelled at his grandchildren during every dinner. He leered at
| my mother and aunts.
|
| And yet, I would have regretted not going to his funeral, and
| not speaking.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| I wanted to say that at my mom's funeral. "Her good parts
| deserved better than her bad parts". But I was crying a lot,
| and trying to act normal around extended family who hadn't
| seen me for several years and at least one gender ago, so I
| didn't want to say anything vaguely negative.
| WillAdams wrote:
| When my best friend from high school took his own life,
| necessitating that I travel to a county I hadn't been to in
| over a decade, when we gathered to remember him, I started
| things off by introducing myself as I would have liked to have
| thought he would have introduced me to everyone else present
| --- that seemed to afford a structure which bridged the gap
| between people I hadn't seen in decades (including his eldest
| niece whom I had not seen since she was a babe in arms) --- we
| went around the room with everyone declaring their connection
| and sharing some memories.
| chasd00 wrote:
| In my experience losing those close to me, you don't regret the
| things you said instead you really regret the things you didn't
| say. So don't beat yourself up too bad it happens to all of us.
| ct0 wrote:
| We must have gone to the same funeral and had the same friend.
| I regret not speaking up either to share a story I think about
| often which highlighted my friends better qualities. Maybe I'll
| make a post about him after thinking about it for a few more
| years.
| octopoc wrote:
| You might want to call up his parents or siblings and tell
| them the story. I had a friend die young and whenever I
| remembered a story about him, I would make a note and call
| his dad next time the guy's birthday came around. Actually I
| forgot his birthday so I just did his birth month but it
| really seemed to encourage his dad.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Public speaking isn't for everyone. Especially at such a
| sensitive occasion.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Saying it won't matter, it's in your heart
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| You have nothing to regret. Eulogies are kind of a modern
| thing. It's one thing to have fond memories of someone, or to
| share them with others during a conversation at the wake or
| whatever, but a public speech that sums up a person is
| something like passing judgement on a person, and I would dread
| putting myself in that position as no one really has the
| authority to do that. (That's why Catholics do not
| traditionally eulogize at a funeral mass or a wake, as passing
| judgement on a _person_ , as opposed to, say, judging certain
| facets of their actions, is something reserved for God alone,
| as only God could know the heart of a person. A proper Catholic
| funeral mass is, in fact, entirely focused on making a
| sacrificial offering for the soul of the departed; there is no
| presumption made about the fate of the deceased.)
| p2detar wrote:
| As a kid, I went to so many funerals, I remember I started
| somewhat liking it.
|
| I grew up in Eastern Europe. My grandmother was a devoted
| christian with a lot of community work around church events. As a
| kid my parents would leave me often with her for the holidays.
| She took me with her to pretty much every funeral that was
| happening in the town, since she had to attend.
|
| It sounds crazy but these events were large social gatherings,
| people bringing food, chatting. Often other kids would be there
| as well. Someone had died, but it wasn't necessarily a sad event.
| It was people being there for the deceased one and their
| relatives. There was also something like the "crying group" -
| that would be old ladies crying for the deceased one as an act of
| support of the relatives rather than expressing genuine feelings.
| The coffin would sometimes be placed on a trailer towed by a
| tractor to the graveyard. The "crying group" would hop onto the
| trailer and they would cry around the coffin. They were really
| good. I realize how strange this may sound, but it was just the
| way it was back then.
|
| None of these funerals could prepare me for the loss of my 2
| grandmothers. Still, without meaning it in a disrespectful way,
| death is an important part of our life-experience, and even as a
| kid, I'm thankful to have had seen it that often and in a non-
| violent way.
| kulahan wrote:
| As I understand it, there are a number of cultures where
| funerals are somewhat celebrations, rather than sad moments. Of
| course, everyone is sad to lose a friend, but you can change
| your perspective a bit, you can make a big difference in how
| things feel
| wvlia5 wrote:
| I think I won't go to my parents funeral (when the time comes).
|
| I don't see the value of standing next to their corpses.
|
| I didn't go to my grandma funeral, I don't regret it. I regret
| not having had deeper relationship with her.
|
| Same with my parents. Will have many regrets, but I believe not
| saying goobye to their corpses won't be one.
| guappa wrote:
| They are dead but the other people who attend aren't
| liotier wrote:
| Solidarity with the living is the whole point of the funeral.
| slfnflctd wrote:
| Well, you could argue that's _most_ of the point.
|
| Remember, though, there are funerals where only one person
| attends. And publicly acknowledging one's loss - even if it
| only consists of going to a building with strangers and
| posting an obituary - can be one of the most important
| steps in processing grief for some people.
| peppyh wrote:
| It's certainly a large part of it. There was a recent
| Cantonese movie that featured this as one of the themes,
| it's well worth a watch.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dance_(2024_film)
| circlefavshape wrote:
| +1
|
| You're showing the other grieving people that you care
| about _them_
| Popeyes wrote:
| I went to a friends mothers funeral to support him and to pay
| my respects. However, his brother who had a fractious
| relationship with his siblings did not. I can't tell you how
| many relatives viewed his absence negatively.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| That's a shame, I'd like to think I would not judge someone
| for their decisions on something like that, having not
| walked any miles in their shoes.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Can you really not think of the situation beyond your personal
| immediate material experience?
| wvlia5 wrote:
| Think in what specifically, example?
|
| I don't see what else I should think of.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Socially, i.e. about other people?
| wvlia5 wrote:
| A yes, but it's odd to me that other people want me to be
| at a funeral with them.
|
| If we have a great relationship, I can lend you money,
| share my house, get you a date, do some errands for you,
| take you to a party, listen to your thoughts and give you
| feedback. All valuable things I can do for you regardless
| of my funeral attendance. But just standing at a funeral?
| I don't see how is that valuable. Maybe for the chat, but
| we can have the chat anywhere else, like staring at the
| stars in a park, a superior setting.
|
| And if we don't have a good relationship, well, then it
| doesn't matter what you want.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Do you have a social disorder of some kind? I feel that
| to most humans this is just immediately obvious and
| socially natural
| wvlia5 wrote:
| Maybe I do.
|
| Is it most? I don't know.
|
| And do most do it because their emotions and values give
| them this urge, or is it that they want to fit their
| social circle or comply with their cultural norms? I dont
| know
| mikedelfino wrote:
| Assuming that your parents die separately, you being there will
| make it easier for the other parent still alive. The same goes
| for their relatives and friends attending the funeral. There's
| some comfort in seeing that the person was loved.
| jll29 wrote:
| Fix your points of regret while this is still possible. If you
| do so, you will find that very likely, you will want to go once
| successful.
| wvlia5 wrote:
| I believe we got to a point where it's them who have the
| responsibility to do the fixing.
| bsuvc wrote:
| It's not about you.
| astura wrote:
| If being around corpses is your main objection, know that you
| don't have to have corpses in the room to have a memorial
| service.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Neither of my parents had a funeral. They both said they didn't
| want people coming in and looking at their dead body.
| Merad wrote:
| It's not about looking at the body (in my area at least,
| funerals usually don't even display the body), it's about
| grieving and mourning. Or supporting other people who are
| going through grief and mourning, even if you don't feel it
| very strongly yourself. My mom died of cancer about a month
| after lockdown started in 2020 so we couldn't have any kind
| of service, but we had a "celebration of life" a year later.
| I'm glad that we did.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Well, they both said they didn't want any of that, so we
| didn't do it.
| shever73 wrote:
| This is a very Irish thing. Funerals in Ireland are always well-
| attended and going to a funeral - even of someone you don't know
| - is important in the community (see this recent news article,
| for example[0]). I notice the author's surname is Sullivan.
|
| As my grandmother liked to repeat: "If you don't go to someone's
| funeral, they won't come to yours."
|
| [0] https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/crowd-shows-up-to-
| funera...)
| io84 wrote:
| I was raised like this and find it heart warming to see
| funerals filled with wider community.
|
| I did misjudge it once: I was living in a different country
| with two fellow Irish people and the relative of a good friend
| died. In Ireland it would have been expected that we attend the
| funeral, in this case we showed up and there were only six
| closest relatives there, and our presence just felt
| inappropriate. I now know your place at a funeral is about your
| place in a wider community. That often overlaps with being a
| connection-of-a-connection, but not always.
| nytesky wrote:
| We had a similar issue. We ended up at a funeral for our
| daughter's teacher (we brought the kids as she knew all of
| them), and somehow ended up in the family greeting line
| intended for close friends and family. It felt so intrusive
| and they were like "why are you here".
|
| The cherry on top was our youngest started getting restless
| during service and we had to leave early and we didn't sit in
| the back.
|
| I had only been to my parents funerals at this point, and
| never experienced a more formal religious service, but we
| were the worst in so many ways. I still regret it 10 years
| later.
| jll29 wrote:
| To ask "why are you here?" suggests these people were
| poorly raised or just plain rude.
|
| Attendees of a funeral make an effort to pay their respects
| to the deceased and to express their condolences to the
| family left behind.
| myko wrote:
| If I understand correctly I think they and ended up in
| the line of folks being given condolences as if they were
| close family.
|
| Sounds extremely awkward and like a plot Michael Scott
| would get himself wrapped into.
| wbl wrote:
| There are much gentler ways to point out the mishap and
| correct it but a funeral is not likely to have people on
| their best manners.
| nytesky wrote:
| I mean those weren't the exact words. They were very
| gracious, but it was clear we had goofed and intruded.
| jll29 wrote:
| I refuse to believe for a second that your attendance was
| considered inappropriate; the person being burried at least
| would have surely been happy for you to be there and think of
| him or her.
|
| Also, your intentions are to be commended regardless of what
| the relatives thought (it's not the relative's funeral, so
| they are not the yardstick).
| bluGill wrote:
| No, different culture. That are many different cultures and
| OP made the common mistake of not understanding until it
| was too late that he was intruding on a different culture.
| Even though OP was in the wrong I cannot fault him for the
| mistake, there often is no way to know if you are not very
| close to the family what the correct culture is.
| circlefavshape wrote:
| Also it's weird as an Irish person to see people saying "the
| time came to speak, and nobody did". I've never been to a
| funeral that didn't have a eulogy. Someone always prepares a
| speech and delivers it
| HWR_14 wrote:
| A formal eulogy is a different part from when they ask if
| anyone from the audience wants to get and share a few words
| about the departed.
| bluGill wrote:
| As I've said a couple different time, culture matters. There
| are many different cultures and they handle this differently.
| I've been to funerals where only the preacher talks, I've
| been to funerals where someone prepares a speech beforehand.
| I've been to funerals where opportunity is given for anyone
| to speak. This is just in my small area of life, as you go
| around the world cultures have many many different customs
| around death.
| MrDrDr wrote:
| I can agree with this. Growing up in the UK, with an Irish
| mother, I was taken to funerals as a child that I really did
| not want to attend. Like the author I now always go the
| funeral, and have found it strange this attitude is not more
| pervasive.
| hindsightbias wrote:
| More than once a bar stranger has said "I thought this was a
| wedding party" at my family Irish Wakes.
| ivanche wrote:
| Ah now I understand why it was a lot of fun at Finnegan's wake!
| wvlia5 wrote:
| Losing relationships to death feels strangely not bad to me.
|
| Losing relationships for other reasons that shouldn't happen,
| like fights, feels bad.
|
| It's like eating a cake. You eat and at some point there will be
| no more cake, and you can rest content. But if the cake falls to
| the floor while you are eating, it's sad.
| wvlia5 wrote:
| I remember my first death.
|
| My mum came and said: "your cousin died".
|
| I felt nothing, I different. I had a great relationship with
| him.
|
| Seeing my non-reaction, my mum said : "you can cry". So I
| thought: "oh, so I should cry now, that's the appropiate thing
| to do in these situations", then I started crying.
| throw4847285 wrote:
| Sure, there's nothing special about that. Many people are too
| young to understand the finality of death when they first
| encounter it. Death becomes harder the older you get. When my
| grandmother died this year I felt a much heavy series of
| emotions than just sadness. It's the finality of it that gets
| you.
| smeej wrote:
| This sounds like you're only thinking of people who die very
| old.
|
| When my 99yo grandmother died, it felt natural, like it was the
| time for such things. She'd eaten all her cake.
|
| When my 29yo sister died, it was completely different, even
| though her death was also natural and did not involve suffering
| (sudden cardiac death, because invariably someone will ask).
| Sure, she'd had some cake, but it seemed like most of it was
| ahead of her, and the cake didn't fall to the floor, it just
| sat there, uneaten and uneatable, which feels both sad and
| _wrong._
|
| At least if there had been a fight, there would be hope for
| reconciliation, or even if that weren't possible, we could
| still be glad to hear good news about each other's life.
| (Rarely does so much hatred endure forever that you can't ever
| be glad when good things happen to somebody.)
|
| Death is worse.
| pessimizer wrote:
| Be careful, or they'll lock you up. The appropriate reaction to
| death has been determined, and deviations are considered at
| best a form of mental illness, and at worst a form of
| terrorism.
|
| The appropriate reaction is the wailing and gnashing of teeth,
| an enormous amount of discussion, imitating as closely as
| possible the dress and decor of previous death gatherings that
| you have references to, varnishing, buttressing, and putting
| makeup on the corpse so that it looks alive, then looking at it
| longingly. If you don't do this you're a psychopath.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| The appropriate response is certainly not to make fun of
| people online, and yet here we stand.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| Some people are just more accepting and more living-in-the-
| moment types.
|
| As for me, I could always use more cake. I have high
| expectations!
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| "By the time I was 16, I had been to five or six funerals"
|
| May be an Irish specific thing but I probably had been to 16 by
| the time I was five or six.
| bananatype wrote:
| I'd say it's also likely an Asian thing.
|
| In my country (the Philippines), it's not uncommon for people
| to bring their children with them to funerals. I've been to the
| wakes of almost every elderly family member. It was also a good
| opportunity, however morbid the circumstances, to connect with
| the rest of the extended family, even those people who I didn't
| realize---until then---were my relatives after all.
| Aachen wrote:
| I'm 30 and haven't been to 5 funerals. Not that many people
| that I know died, or at least not that I know of (maybe a
| primary school teacher did in the meantime but I'm not living
| in the same area anymore). Might going to so many be a village
| culture thing, where everyone knows everyone and so you know of
| a lot more deaths?
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| I think I'm the most sheltered person I've ever known. 1
| funeral, mid-30s. I'm expecting 1 more regular one when my dad
| dies, then a horrible one when my brother dies, and then my
| cohort will be called.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| I pretty much always go. The only time I missed a funeral was
| during the pandemic for one of my teachers, and my wife was due
| at any moment. His funeral was well attended.
|
| For one particular funeral, it was for a childhood friend who I
| had lost touch with. One of the photos, in the rotation, was from
| a bus trip where I said, "hey, give me your camera." It was
| touching. His brother showed up at my mother's funeral a few
| years later.
| block_dagger wrote:
| I declined to attend one of my grandfathers' funerals. I did not
| consider him a good man and did not feel love for him while he
| was alive. I have never regretted it.
| qup wrote:
| It's not about attending in spite of disdain or contempt. I
| think you would be advised to skip that one.
| rralian wrote:
| > In my humdrum life, the daily battle hasn't been good versus
| evil. It's hardly so epic. Most days, my real battle is doing
| good versus doing nothing.
|
| Wow. This part really resonated with me. I will try to keep this
| in mind.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| A slight modification for my own philosophy: I always go to the
| wake/memorial.
|
| The funeral (burial/internment) is usually for close family only.
| I will go, if it is appropriate, but usually, not. Sometimes, the
| funeral mass is more open than the actual burial.
|
| I had a friend propose that we hire a woman and a child to stand
| a hundred yards away from the burial of a [male] friend, and
| leave before anyone can approach them, to add some mystery to the
| event.
| cobbaut wrote:
| Please visit people when they are still alive.
|
| My aunt was alone for the last three years of her live, up to 94
| years old. She had almost no visitors, and was not able to go out
| by herself. I went there about every week, and was always the
| only visitor.
|
| Then came the funeral, with well over 400 people there, and
| around 200 people at the coffee table after the funeral. And I
| was like: Where the hell were you guys the past three years? She
| was alone (after her husband died) and most of you never visited
| her since (and no they were not living far away or unable to
| visit).
|
| Go to the funeral yes, but don't wait until.
| seanhunter wrote:
| ^ this. Also, don't allow yourself to be put off by the idea
| that you don't know what to say or whatever. Just go. If you
| think it's hard for you it's doubly hard for the person who is
| dying and noone is visiting them because they don't know what
| to say.
|
| My cousin was in hospital dying of cancer. I spoke to my mum
| and she said she wasn't sure what to say etc, so she ended up
| not going. I went. I said to him "hey this situation really
| sucks". We had a great conversation. He died. I'm really glad I
| went.
|
| Fast forward a few years and my uncle (his dad) was in hospital
| dying of cancer. I spoke to my mum and she said she wasn't sure
| what to say etc. I said "you remember what happened last time.
| Just go." She went[1]. It was a good way to bring finality and
| say goodbye to her brother and she was really glad she went.
|
| [1] I also went separately but that's slightly beside the point
| smugma wrote:
| So much humanity in this. Thank you for sharing and for
| advocating.
| ljf wrote:
| I so heartily agree - when my brother was dying I was at a
| loss to know what to say - we didn't share a lot of history
| as he 'joined' the family later in life - but just chatting
| rubbish helped him hugely.
|
| Later a friend was dying and when she could no longer talk,
| I'd head out for a walk and just describe what I could see,
| what my plans were, and great things I remembered from our
| past - I wasn't able to visit, but her parents said she
| really enjoyed the voice notes she got - almost as much as
| the visitors.
|
| But if you can see people, just do it. Not long ago my mum
| decided to try and visit a whole heap of friends across
| England, just as she realised after my dad died, that she
| never knew the last time she'd see these people - and wanted
| it to be occasions they both enjoyed, before too much time
| had passed. I loved the idea.
| hinkley wrote:
| This is something the Lutherans seem to have figured out, and
| shows up in the culture of Lutheran heavy areas like northern
| midwestern towns: you don't even have to talk, and you
| definitely don't have to talk about the death, or invite the
| believed to do so.
|
| Just show up. Help out if you can (bring food).
|
| If they want to talk they'll talk. If they don't they still
| had the option.
|
| I watched Lars and the Real Girl with some people who grew up
| on the west coast. There's a scene after a funeral where
| these two little old ladies come over, bring food, and just
| knit and occupy space, so he's not alone. I said that's the
| most midwestern thing I've ever seen in a Hollywood movie.
| And it still pretty much is.
| mmooss wrote:
| You don't need to say anything. _Be present_ : listen; be
| curious and caring and compassionate and infinitely patient.
| Watch TV together; listen to music.
| bumby wrote:
| This is one of my biggest takeaways from reading Frank
| Ostaseski's book "The Five Invitations". He runs a hospice
| center and has lots of experience helping the dying and
| those around them. He talks about how being present is
| often what is most needed.
|
| He also has a great talk with Sam Harris that's worth a
| listen.
| ToucanLoucan wrote:
| One of my best memories of college: I was going to a tech
| school that was just down the street from the nursing home my
| grandpa was at. Most family were busy so my mom pressured me to
| go spend time with him. Initially I thought it would suck but
| after a few times, both the nursing staff and a few patients
| near my grandpa knew me, it was like getting a minor, second
| home right next to school. I would go to my classes, get my
| homework, then drive a few minutes down the road and spend
| hours there doing the homework, playing games, what have you.
|
| I got so much time with him just before he passed. It was truly
| a blessing, even though he was already a huge part of my
| childhood, to get one last hurrah before I entered adulthood
| and he... well, took the next step.
|
| I'm not a religious person, I don't honestly think there's an
| afterlife, and on this point my parents disagree. Maybe they
| would've made more time to visit him if they weren't sure he
| was going to a better place and they'd see him again.
| anshulbhide wrote:
| Yes. I just found out that my favourite teacher from school
| passed away today.
|
| I've been meaning to visit her for the past five years, but
| never got around to it - and now never will.
| miroljub wrote:
| People didn't go to visit her while being alive because they
| genuinely didn't care about her, or didn't care enough to
| bother to visit.
|
| They showed up in a funeral not because of her, but because
| they were afraid of what others would say about them if they
| didn't show up.
|
| This is the sad reality of human behaviour in this day and age.
| freedomben wrote:
| Indeed, anecdotally I think there's an epidemic of uncaring
| going on in the world right now. I think the hyper-
| connectivity of always-on internet-based and smartphone-based
| stuff just overwhelms our capacity to care, but that's purely
| a theory.
| mulmen wrote:
| > I think there's an epidemic of uncaring going on in the
| world right now.
|
| That's like, your opinion man. _You_ are in control of
| that. Such a negative view is a _choice_. You can focus on
| something positive instead.
|
| Our connected world allows families to stay in touch with
| almost zero friction. I get multiple updates weekly on my
| nieces and nephews even though they live hundreds of miles
| away.
|
| I have hundreds of photos and videos at my fingertips.
|
| I only get two or three in person visits a year.
| Connectivity is our only way to maintain... connection.
| jacobgkau wrote:
| > I think the hyper-connectivity of always-on internet-
| based and smartphone-based stuff just overwhelms our
| capacity to care, but that's purely a theory.
|
| GP stated explicitly they have a _theory_ about something
| that is _causing_ people to behave differently. You can
| call that an opinion if you 'd like. You can not believe
| the theory and instead blame that person's "choice,"
| which is also "your opinion man." Your anecdote isn't
| very relevant to the theory in a thread full of people
| talking to the contrary.
| mulmen wrote:
| > GP stated explicitly they have a theory about something
| that is causing people to behave differently.
|
| Yes and I disagree that connectivity is inherently
| negative or even overwhelming.
|
| > You can call that an opinion if you'd like.
|
| This "theory" is totally unsubstantiated so is no more
| than an opinion.
|
| > You can not believe the theory and instead blame that
| person's "choice," which is also "your opinion man."
|
| Yes. That's exactly what I did.
|
| > Your anecdote isn't very relevant to the theory in a
| thread full of people talking to the contrary.
|
| I don't find the volume of an argument compelling.
| freedomben wrote:
| Of course there are positives for being hyper connected.
| That doesn't mean there aren't going to be any negatives.
| Furthermore, choosing to ignore them won't make them
| magically go away.
|
| There are big positives about having an abundance of
| food, but along with that we get type 2 diabetes and
| plenty of other health problems. Trying to understand the
| cause of these health problems does not mean one wishes
| to return to an era of widespread starvation and
| malnutrition. I suppose you have the same criticism for
| the doctors who began theorizing that an excess of
| carbs/sugar was causing problems? After all, plenty of
| people enjoy sugary desserts and lots of families get
| quality time together eating them around the dinner
| table. I don't see why those doctors had to choose to
| have such a negative view. Ignoring the problem would
| have been better, no?
| mulmen wrote:
| > Of course there are positives for being hyper
| connected. That doesn't mean there aren't going to be any
| negatives. Furthermore, choosing to ignore them won't
| make them magically go away.
|
| I agree with you that always on communication can be
| overwhelming. When that communication is negative it
| affects our emotions negatively. So why continue to add
| negativity? That's the choice.
| JamesBarney wrote:
| I really don't think that's true. It's combination of a
| couple of things.
|
| 1. Life is busy, it's hard to find time, and easy to put off
| 2. They are anxious about what to say, and it really sucks
| going to places where people die. 3. There are a lot of
| people who show up to funerals because they are trying to
| support the friends and family of the deceased and don't
| really have any relationship with the deceased. My friends
| parents for instance. I don't really feel an obligation to
| visit my friends parent's I barely know, but would want to
| show up to the funeral to support my friends.
| mmooss wrote:
| What is that based on? You don't know these people, many
| individuals with their own stories and needs and troubles and
| drives.
| matthewowen wrote:
| Reading the whole thing, I think the author would agree.
|
| "Go to the funeral" isn't just about the funeral. It's a
| specific example of "if you have a chance to show up for
| someone, show up for them: even if (maybe _especially_ if) it's
| awkward or inconvenient".
| cobbaut wrote:
| > Reading the whole thing, I think the author would agree
|
| Yes, I think so too.
| jasode wrote:
| _> Please visit people when they are still alive. [...] Go to
| the funeral yes, but don't wait until._
|
| Thank you for bringing this up. To add to that ... sometimes,
| circumstances (i.e. long distances) dictate that only 1 of
| those trips can be made and they may have to choose.
|
| I had a family member with a terminal illness and a friend of
| the family from out of state decided to visit 2 months before
| the end to say goodbyes. They were elderly and on a fixed
| income so they could only budget the money for 1 trip. As a
| result, they had to skip the funeral. From my standpoint, they
| made the correct choice of prioritizing the conversation with a
| living person instead of attending a funeral.
| dachris wrote:
| As a corollary, if a person you're responsible for "goes dark"
| socially (due to dementia, unable to go out anymore, moved to
| nursing home etc), do let their friendly social circle know
| (friends, neighbors) that the person would still be happy about
| visitors.
|
| I've seen this with a relative with dementia - many people just
| weren't aware that she had no contact with them anymore due to
| this.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Also don't leave for later things you can do today.
|
| I lost family members the day after having phone calls, or
| planning stuff to do together the upcoming weekend.
|
| Leaving something to do later instead of now, that later might
| be too late.
| hk1337 wrote:
| > Where the hell were you guys the past three years?
|
| Maybe they were there when you weren't there and they're asking
| the same question about you? Maybe your aunt never really
| thought to bring up that so-and-so had come to visit while you
| were there, so then as far as you know, nobody came to visit?
| Maybe they called, sure it's not the same as visiting but it's
| something.
|
| It's true though, as humans we tend to not think about things
| and other people until they are gone. Don't be angry and upset,
| if anything, pity them for not having the time that you had.
| aeronaut80 wrote:
| Maybe the aunt was in a care facility where a record of
| visitors is kept, and so they know for sure how many visitors
| there were. Anyway regardless of the specifics of this
| situation, there are many others where far more people turn
| up for the funeral than did for the person in their later
| years.
| cobbaut wrote:
| > Maybe they were there when you weren't there and they're
| asking the same question about you?
|
| No.
|
| She complained about not seeing anyone. She had a clear mind
| and we talked a lot about her friends and family.
| beambot wrote:
| 1000x this. I was fortunate & got to spend the terminal 3mo of
| my father's life staying with him. He didn't want a funeral at
| all. His perspective, "If you can't visit me while I'm still
| alive & have time, then don't bother." Seeing his friends &
| family visit was touching.
| colanderman wrote:
| I'm surprised in all this discussion not to see the distinction
| between a wake and a funeral.
|
| The advice I've heard is, go to a wake to support those who are
| grieving, go to a funeral to grieve yourself.
|
| (For this reason, the wake is held at more "convenient" hours.)
|
| Do others make this distinction? Is the practice of holding a
| separate wake a regional/cultural thing?
| mattl wrote:
| I think the wake is more of a Catholic thing perhaps?
| colanderman wrote:
| Maybe (I was raised Catholic), but I also attended a wake of
| a teacher of mine who was Jewish (culturally if not
| religiously). Thinking more now, where I'm from (northeast
| US), "wake" and "calling hours" are synonymous, whereas they
| might not be in other parts of the world. So I may be
| perpetuating some confusion of terms.
| mattl wrote:
| I think in parts of the US that's certainly true. Northeast
| US is predominantly Catholic too.
| seanhunter wrote:
| I think the naming varies. In the UK for example, the funeral
| typically indicates a religious thing and the wake is the
| reception thing you go from the funeral _to_ .It 's usually in
| a pub. There's usually bad food. You have a drink. You have a
| good conversation with all the people you haven't seen for
| ages. You remember your friend/family member/colleague whatever
| who is dead.
| colanderman wrote:
| Oh interesting! My background is northeast US; the wake
| (a.k.a. calling hours) _precedes_ the funeral, typically the
| evening prior. There 's no food, it's not religious (held at
| the funeral home), and well-wishers stop by for the reasons
| you mentioned. There's a sign-up sheet for those who will be
| attending the funeral.
|
| There is _also_ a reception at a restaurant immediately after
| the funeral; this is almost strictly for close friends and
| family though.
| nlavezzo wrote:
| HN has never made me cry before, but here I am crying. This is
| really a wonderful article and discussion. Makes me appreciate
| this community even more.
| fraserphysics wrote:
| I agree with the article, and I find many of the comments here
| insightful. Relationships with some of my old school adversaries
| were healed when they attended my son's funeral.
|
| The movie Charade is sort of about the bad effects of a poorly
| attended funeral. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8FA5zBHiFA
| crabbone wrote:
| Idk. Nobody ever invited me and I don't know anyone closely
| enough for even knowing if anyone in their family died. I'll be
| fifty soon, and, I have an impression that the only funeral I'll
| ever attend will be my own, if there even will be a funeral :|
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| That was a beautiful piece. Well written, concise.
|
| My grandmother was the only relative of that generation that
| lived in the same city when I was young -- the only funeral I
| went to.
|
| But as an adult, having my mother recently die, it was my turn to
| more or less head up the funeral. I too was touched by, in this
| case, relatives of my wife that showed up. They didn't know my
| mom from Adam but came anyway.
| a3w wrote:
| I will not attend any more funerals, unless I get the church to
| stay out of it. The priests at the last events I attended to did
| not know the diseased. Even the wedding speeches I heard took
| place with nothing concrete on the people in questions. As for
| mostly church funerals in my significant others or my family: -
| Boring while overwhelming, - a farce since everyone planning it
| is either fighting or not caring enough to start a fight, - and
| not at all about dealing with death in a good way (grief,
| laughter, moving on. Something cultural should happen, but no one
| at the events ever found it. Only jealousy and nepotism were
| present if you heard any discussion about real values of having
| those funerals. And those came up behind closed doors.)
| ilamont wrote:
| The best arrangement I've witnessed (for family friends from my
| hometown) was a private funeral for the close family members,
| followed 6 weeks later by a memorial service in a nice rented
| space with a slideshow going, drinks, and a general air of a big
| reunion.
|
| The large amount of time between the two events was better for
| the family, who didn't feel the same sting of fresh grief. There
| was no awkwardness, either. Everyone could remember the deceased
| in a way that she would have appreciated - old memories,
| laughter, and positivity.
| keybored wrote:
| > "Always go to the funeral" means that I have to do the right
| thing when I really, really don't feel like it. I have to remind
| myself of it when I could make some small gesture, but I don't
| really have to and I definitely don't want to. I'm talking about
| those things that represent only inconvenience to me, but the
| world to the other guy. You know, the painfully under-attended
| birthday party. The hospital visit during happy hour. The Shiva
| call for one of my ex's uncles. In my humdrum life, the daily
| battle hasn't been good versus evil. It's hardly so epic. Most
| days, my real battle is doing good versus doing nothing.
|
| This hinges on your level of self-importance.
| encoderer wrote:
| For many of us here a corollary is:
|
| Always get on the plane. Make the trip. Weddings. Baptisms.
| Graduations. Funerals. All of it. Even if going home is hard.
| kulahan wrote:
| People don't think about death enough. Be ready to go at any
| moment. Are you at work? Take a moment, and pretend your partner,
| mom, dad, or child's last time speaking to you _forever_ was the
| last time you chatted.
|
| What comes to mind? Do you wish you had said/done something? Take
| action before it's too late.
| beardedwizard wrote:
| I seriously regret not seeing my aunt when she was dying, though
| I went to the funeral.
|
| A memory ill never forget though is the time I went to a funeral
| for a childhood friends sister - it was extremely sad as you
| would expect, but her brother (my childhood friend) saw a big
| group of us there and he said "I cant believe it, everyone came
| out" and I could see he was really happy.
|
| When the article said "do it for the family" it really hit me,
| and in hindsight its obvious - we were there for them, not the
| deceased, and it meant A LOT to them to see us there.
| abhayhegde wrote:
| In my opinion, matters of respect and kindness are given more
| than due consideration at death and perhaps only then for most
| people. Sure, go to the funeral and pay your respect, show how
| much they meant to you, but perhaps, do it much before. Do it way
| before death is even a thing.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2024-12-17 23:01 UTC)