[HN Gopher] NYC wants you to stop taking traffic cam selfies, bu...
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       NYC wants you to stop taking traffic cam selfies, but here's how to
       do it anyway
        
       Author : gnabgib
       Score  : 157 points
       Date   : 2024-12-13 02:49 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pcmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pcmag.com)
        
       | readthenotes1 wrote:
       | This reminds me of an old sci-fi story, whose name I forgot,
       | which had a world building aside that the government had 1person
       | moviebooths stren throughout the cities where people could pay a
       | quarter to see a 1 minute snippet of the surveillance feeds of
       | every public place. The goal was to see yourself, or at least
       | someone you recognized.
        
         | Something1234 wrote:
         | That sounds incredibly interesting anymore details on where to
         | go see it?
        
       | dave78 wrote:
       | Isn't the most likely outcome here that the city will simply stop
       | allowing public access to the camera feeds?
       | 
       | This feels like it has the potential to be a "this is why we
       | can't have nice things" outcome even though I don't think the app
       | author is doing anything wrong.
        
         | euniceee3 wrote:
         | That is what happened to the local feed for the city I live in.
         | Their mapping data was trash. I went through fixed the GPS,
         | found the typical focalized center of frame, built a basic
         | frontend, and then they shut it all down.
         | 
         | I found the dude that ran it and emailed back and forth with
         | him for a few years. They made excuses about how it is an IT
         | issue.
        
           | 7speter wrote:
           | > They made excuses about how it is an IT issue.
           | 
           | An ego issue
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | Why does NYC even care? This tendency to govern in a
         | controlling way is not just weird but plain unethical. I hope
         | this goes viral and embarrasses them.
        
           | dave78 wrote:
           | Agree in spirit, though again if it does go viral and they
           | become embarrassed the most likely thing is they'd shut down
           | public access to the cameras - which would be a lousy outcome
           | for everyone.
           | 
           | My county has traffic cameras available online, though it's
           | only static images updated once a minute or so. It's not that
           | great but I still appreciate it, especially during winter
           | weather. Every now and then if the weather seems bad I check
           | the cameras to see what the roads look like before I head
           | out. It's not a big deal, but I'd be a little annoyed if they
           | took away public access because someone was trying to make
           | some sort of statement or game out of them.
        
           | Spooky23 wrote:
           | NYC government is peculiar, in that its size and scope is
           | like a US state, but it also subsumes the functions of US
           | cities and counties. The closest comparison in the US is
           | probably LA County.
           | 
           | Thinking about it in terms of technology -- during the
           | pandemic the schools bought a million iPads. They also run a
           | giant hospital system, the largest police and fire
           | departments in the country, etc.
           | 
           | The net result is administration of a vast, sprawling (both
           | horizontal and vertical) bureaucracy is complex, and the cogs
           | in the wheel of that bureaucracy are simultaneously in your
           | face and detached from reality. So you have a group of
           | attorneys who see a threat in people posing in front of a
           | camera.
        
         | highcountess wrote:
         | The response to that should be filing lawsuits to force the
         | government to make public resources like that publicly
         | accessible.
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | What's the point of making a thing avilable to the public
         | online if you're only going to pull it offline as soon as
         | regular people start using it? I'm sure there are corporations
         | and data brokers quietly collecting info on us using every
         | scrap of publicly avilable data including traffic cams, but the
         | moment regular folks start getting in on the fun and they post
         | a pic of themselves being surveilled on twitter suddenly it's
         | time to shut everything down?
         | 
         | If it's a problem as soon as the average American starts using
         | something, it's probably better if those resources stop being
         | made available period.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >but the moment regular folks start getting in on the fun and
           | they post a pic of themselves being surveilled on twitter
           | suddenly it's time to shut everything down?
           | 
           | There's a pretty big difference between using it for its
           | intended purpose (ie. monitoring traffic), and the alleged
           | behavior that the department of transportation was opposed
           | to.
           | 
           | >Office of Legal Affairs recently sent a cease-and-desist
           | letter to Morry Kolman, the artist behind the project,
           | charging that the TCP "encourages pedestrians to violate NYC
           | traffic rules and engage in dangerous behavior."
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | > There's a pretty big difference between using it for its
             | intended purpose (ie. monitoring traffic), and the alleged
             | behavior that the department of transportation was opposed
             | to.
             | 
             | What's the point of having it public then? The department
             | of transportation is already using that data for monitoring
             | traffic so there's zero need for anyone else to replicate
             | their work. The value in making that data public isn't so
             | that Joe Average can track traffic volume over time just
             | like the DoT is already doing. It's for transparency and so
             | that the public can find new and innovative uses for the
             | information our tax money is already being spent on
             | gathering.
             | 
             | There's no point if we're not allowed to use that data in
             | new ways and we don't need the kind of "transparency" that
             | only applies as long as the public isn't looking.
             | 
             | If a specific use is actually dangerous then that can be
             | dealt with on a case by case basis, and it's arguable that
             | they were right to send a cease and desist letter to this
             | website, but making the data itself unavailable over it
             | would be an overreaction
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | This seems to happen every time some stuffy SeriousAgency
               | or SeriousCompany opens something up to the public. The
               | public decides to use it in a way that they didn't think
               | of, and they respond by clutching their pearls, panicking
               | and shutting it down, instead of just going with it.
               | 
               | SeriousCompany: "Look how cool and in tune we are with
               | the public, here's this resource that you can all use.
               | High five! [...] Oh, wait, no, what you're doing is bad
               | for our image... No, stop, we didn't mean for you to
               | do... No, don't enjoy it that way... Wait, stop, we
               | didn't think of that at all! Oh, god no you're using it
               | to post Amogus Porn! SHUT IT DOWN!!!"
        
         | kayo_20211030 wrote:
         | > "this is why we can't have nice things"
         | 
         | Of course, it'll be used, but that's just a bad, bad argument
         | at any level.
        
       | rKarpinski wrote:
       | The referenced project is open source
       | https://github.com/wttdotm/traffic_cam_photobooth
       | 
       | TIL NYC traffic cams have a live feed on the web
       | 
       | "NYC DOT traffic cameras only provide live feeds and do not
       | record any footage. There are 919 cameras available via the
       | NYCTMC.org website."[1]
       | 
       | random traffic camera
       | https://webcams.nyctmc.org/api/cameras/a8f2d065-c266-4378-ac...
       | 
       | [1] https://webcams.nyctmc.org/about
        
         | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
         | What is their use if they don't record anything? Just to
         | measure current traffic levels? I assumed they were all used as
         | ALPRs. I've seen some cameras sprouting up in my small town and
         | it worries me.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | Yes, and they predate the internet.
           | 
           | They are essentially a public live traffic report so that the
           | news agencies are not running helicopters amok to get the
           | same footage; and many of the cameras are in tight locations
           | where it would be hard to fly helicopters or drones without
           | irritating neighbors or being a danger to public safety.
        
           | ldoughty wrote:
           | Just because NYCTMC doesn't record doesn't mean NYC Police,
           | or any other group doesn't... Could have been intentionally
           | coordinated or not at the beginning, but it almost certainly
           | is recorded by several players now
        
             | CPLX wrote:
             | Google NYPD Viper Unit
        
               | someothherguyy wrote:
               | Video Interactive Patrol Enhancement Response
               | 
               | It sounds like they install their own cameras though.
        
             | someothherguyy wrote:
             | You should be able to get that information:
             | 
             | https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/about-
             | nypd/policy/post-a...
             | 
             | Although:
             | 
             | https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-
             | opinion/nypd...
        
           | ssl-3 wrote:
           | The small(ish) town I grew up in started using cameras a
           | dozen or more years ago.
           | 
           | They get used with computer vision to control and coordinate
           | traffic lights (sometimes with the help of inductive loops in
           | the pavement, and sometimes without).
           | 
           | In this _particular_ case: They don 't record anything, and
           | their ISM 900MHz backhauls don't have enough bandwidth for
           | centralized video anyway.
           | 
           | (Sources: Background in RF, and I used to hang out with the
           | city employee who took care of this system along with most
           | other things relating to traffic lights there.)
        
       | crtasm wrote:
       | The image with the camera in the mirror shows not every camera
       | requires standing in traffic.
       | 
       | The C&D letter:
       | https://trafficcamphotobooth.com/assets/CeaseAndDesist.pdf
        
         | hackernewds wrote:
         | breaking the law continues to be a good form of monetization
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | Terms & Conditions of a website, even a government website,
           | aren't law.
        
       | gosub100 wrote:
       | Tangential, but I'm a subscriber to a YouTube channel called VRF
       | - virtual railfan - that shows essentially "traffic cams" of
       | trains throughout North America. People do take selfies for the
       | cam but always from a safe location.
       | 
       | Over the years, the cams have caught some extraordinary events:
       | maintenance equipment starting fires, trains on fire, numerous
       | derailments, and, I'm not kidding, probably about 100 occurrences
       | of people driving onto the tracks and getting stuck. A
       | disproportionate number of them occurred at Ashland, VA. Which
       | makes me think it's a bug in the traffic design.
        
       | qudat wrote:
       | That site is ad cancer, can't see the content at all
        
         | varenc wrote:
         | My iOS ad blocker seems to block it all since I see none
        
         | qwe----3 wrote:
         | The page crashed on my phone
        
       | airstrike wrote:
       | I find it odd that we've conflated political statements with art.
       | 
       | I'm not saying art cannot or should not be political, but rather
       | that not all forms of political statements represent art _just
       | because_ they are political. For some reason many people think
       | they do to such an extent that my position would be borderline
       | blasphemous in art circles.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | I mean this is kind of trivially true so I'm not really sure
         | who you're arguing against-- "I think we should have lower
         | taxes" is a political statement that isn't art. But for the
         | most part if you believe what you're doing it art, it's art--
         | this is for sure a performance piece.
         | 
         | I know a few local galleries that would trip over themselves to
         | do an exhibition with this photo set.
        
           | airstrike wrote:
           | _> I 'm not really sure who you're arguing against_
           | 
           | I'm arguing against calling these photos art.
           | 
           |  _> But for the most part if you believe what you 're doing
           | it art, it's art-- this is for sure a performance piece._
           | 
           | I understand this is the prevalent view in the 21st century.
           | I'm not convinced it is true. And similarly just because I
           | rent a place, put up a sign saying "Art Gallery" and put some
           | things up for display, that doesn't mean those things are
           | works of art. The emperor has no clothes and all that.
        
       | crabmusket wrote:
       | Side note, but I find this image caption very amusing
       | 
       | > Kolman shows the traffic cams his cease-and-desist in Brooklyn
       | and Times Square.
       | 
       | The use of "shows" feels to me like it anthropomorphises the
       | cameras, as if he's sharing the joke with his traffic cam pals.
        
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