[HN Gopher] Ultra-low-power localization tag uses cellular signa...
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       Ultra-low-power localization tag uses cellular signals [pdf]
        
       Author : nakulgarg22
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2024-12-12 19:25 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cs.umd.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cs.umd.edu)
        
       | anonu wrote:
       | I had 2 questions: 1. what about data transmissions 2. what about
       | using this on containers in the open seas?
       | 
       | The first questions is at least partly answered in the document,
       | copied below. However, you still need a collection infrastructure
       | to make this useful.
       | 
       | > Communicating locations: Localization trackers often need a
       | communication module to periodically update location to a server
       | or nearby hub. Standalone GPS trackers (e.g., [35] and [95])
       | often use cellular or satellite communications to do so. LiTEfoot
       | can incorporate an NB-IoT module for relaying location data.
       | Using a low-power NB-IoT transmitter [96], which consumes 76 mW
       | to transmit a 140 kb packet in eDRX mode, the system can
       | intermittently send updates hourly, daily, or monthly depending
       | on the application. This enables LiTEfoot to operate for
       | approximately 10 years on a coin cell. The same antenna frontend
       | can be shared between LiTEfoot and the communication unit,
       | maintaining a compact form factor while providing flexible
       | communication capabilities.
        
         | davidhyde wrote:
         | There are many cheap ultra low power microcontrollers that can
         | keep a time clock going and a small amount (say 32KB) of ram.
         | 30 years on a coin cell. Pair that with a Bluetooth low energy
         | transceiver to automatically transfer the data when the home
         | base is in range (or any number of base stations). Like at a
         | port in your example.
        
       | micw wrote:
       | Cool. I want this for my cats, my kids, my keys and everything
       | else.
       | 
       | But I wonder: if millions of this are deployed, would this weaken
       | cellular signals (by drawing power from it)?
        
         | timerol wrote:
         | Do you currently have tracker tags on those things? If not, why
         | not? Multi-year lifetimes are already available with Tile (3
         | years), AirTag (>1 year), and Samsung's SmartTag 2 (700 days),
         | using BLE detection instead of 4G detection.
         | 
         | Millions of these would not degrade signal. A random bit of
         | metal (like a quarter, as shown for scale) in between you an a
         | 4G tower should have the same effect as one of these devices.
         | They are detecting existing 4G signal, not using it for energy
         | harvesting.
        
           | micw wrote:
           | Thanks. I miss-read it and thought it's energy harvesting
           | from celular.
           | 
           | I already have some trackers on important stuff (like keys
           | and school bag of kids if they loose it in the bus). But for
           | other use cases it's either too large (cats) or makes no
           | sense to have too many because then I'd have to replace a
           | battery every few weeks ("everything else").
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | > replace a battery every few weeks
             | 
             | make it easy on yourself and change them all on the same
             | day like a clock reset day like the recommendation for your
             | smoke detectors. bite the bullet and change change some
             | early to get them on the same schedule. it's worth it for
             | sanity
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | > Do you currently have tracker tags on those things?
           | 
           | Yes. I have AirTags on my fur babbies, but if I were to need
           | to use them I'd be hoping they came within range of a device
           | to pick them up. Then, in FindMy app, I could see where the
           | had been, but not where they are now to go get them. I would
           | hope a system like this could give me a much more current
           | location. Hopefully, I'll never need any of this.
        
       | fellerts wrote:
       | How are they able to achieve sub-100 meter accuracy? I might be
       | missing something, but In my experience, collecting the cellular
       | parameters is the easy part. The challenge is knowing where the
       | cells actually are. You can ask Google's geolocation API, but
       | that typically returns a fix with ~1000 meter accuracy if it
       | returns a fix at all. These databases are curated based on
       | GPS+cellular information from millions of phones. There is no
       | global source of truth.
       | 
       | If only base stations included location information in their
       | transmissions...
        
         | timerol wrote:
         | FTA: Our localization approach combines open-source databases
         | (OpenCellID [47], Mozilla Location Services [66], and
         | CellMapper [12]) for PCI-to-coordinate mapping of cell towers
         | with a trilateration technique based on relative signal
         | strengths.
        
           | ssl-3 wrote:
           | Interesting.
           | 
           | CellMapper, at least, is not even a little bit open source.
           | It doesn't even have an API.
           | 
           | This leads me to wonder what other details that FA provides
           | which might have been fabricated from thin air.
        
             | gbru-ty wrote:
             | If someone is focusing on extracting data for a small area,
             | they can manually browse the CellMapper data. An API isn't
             | required for that--it's a matter of accessing and analyzing
             | what's already available through the platform.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | That doesn't really answer the question. Those services
           | basically work the same way as Google's geolocation API, but
           | they're somehow able to magically get better accuracy.
        
       | timerol wrote:
       | The coolest hack in here is definitely the way that the 4G base
       | station can be (mostly uniquely) identified after the RF signal
       | for a packet is run through an envelope detector through a low-
       | pass filter, as opposed to the normal (and higher-power) method
       | of using a high-frequency oscillator and a demodulation chain.
        
       | phoronixrly wrote:
       | Relevant Don't Get Distracted (2017)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42388354
        
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