[HN Gopher] RISC-V HiFive Premier P550 Development Boards with U...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       RISC-V HiFive Premier P550 Development Boards with Ubuntu Now
       Available
        
       Author : fork-bomber
       Score  : 166 points
       Date   : 2024-12-11 16:33 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sifive.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sifive.com)
        
       | cmrdporcupine wrote:
       | Can someone who is more familiar with this SoC confirm for me
       | that this P550 doesn't have the RISC-V "V" vector extensions? I'm
       | seeing a GBC suffix which I guess means bit manipulation,
       | compressed instructions, and whatever the G extension is which I
       | don't fully understand (IMAFD plz explain?)
        
         | insom wrote:
         | G includes MAFD extensions for non-embedded (I) applications.
         | That's multiplication and division, atomics, single and double-
         | precision floating point. It also includes the control/status
         | register and a instruction-fence instruction. I think it's
         | there to mean "the base plus the standard bits that people
         | generally want in a processor if they're writing C for it".
        
           | cmrdporcupine wrote:
           | Ah, ok, thanks for the clarification. When I last played with
           | RISC-V it was in (hobby) FPGA stuff and the cores I was
           | messing with did not specify G.
        
         | lauriewired wrote:
         | P550 cores don't have vector extensions. It's actually quite an
         | old design, from 2021. What you'd want is SiFive P670 cores,
         | which are RVA22 compliant with the vector 1.0 spec.
        
           | brucehoult wrote:
           | Three years from announcement of a core to SoCs on boards
           | being available is actually on the quick side.
           | 
           | Arm A53 (Pi 3, October 2012 - February 2016), A72 (Pi 4, Feb
           | 2015 - June 2019), and A76 (Pi 5, May 2018 - September 2023,
           | or January 2022 for Radxa Rock 5B) all took longer.
           | 
           | P670 was only announced in November 2022. If a board ships by
           | the end of 2025 it will be doing very well.
        
             | adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
             | why does it take so long? I totally understand for leading
             | edge products on new nodes why it would, but for chips on
             | mature processes, what's the bottleneck between design and
             | sale? I know the round trip time from the foundries is ~3
             | months. Is the rest validation? It feels like it would be
             | really valuable to be able to reduce the time to ~1 year
             | (even if that came at the cost of power, area or a moderate
             | amount of performance). Shortening the feedback loop here
             | would be super helpful for designers and programmers to be
             | able to experiment with new paradigms faster I would think.
        
               | brucehoult wrote:
               | Largely because in the Arm and RISC-V worlds company A
               | designs the CPU core, then at some point company B
               | decides to license the core to make an SoC and starts
               | designing it. Then company C manufactures the chip. Then
               | when the chip is available companies D, E, F design
               | boards for the chip to go on.
               | 
               | Traditionally in x86 Intel and AMD do all the first three
               | steps in one company, with the stages overlapped, and
               | feedback.
               | 
               | Also, Intel and AMD (and even more so Apple) don't
               | announce a new chip until it is very close to shipping.
               | They might have been working on it internally for five
               | years before that.
               | 
               | Arm and RISC-V companies have to make public
               | announcements when a core is nearing design completion,
               | to give a chance for companies such as Allwinner and
               | Rockchip and Broadcom and Mediatek and Sophgo and
               | Starfive to take a look at the specs and decide that it
               | might be interesting to build a chip using that core.
               | 
               | > I know the round trip time from the foundries is ~3
               | months.
               | 
               | That's only if the chip works first time. Many don't and
               | need several re-spins. I believe 3 or 4 is not uncommon.
               | And variable amounts of re-design and re-layout and re-
               | verify time between each of those ~3 months at the
               | foundry.
               | 
               | Given that, it would be a brave company that went
               | straight to mass-production without a round of test chips
               | first, so you've got 2x ~3 months, plus "bring up" time
               | in between, even in the best case.
        
         | aseipp wrote:
         | The only board that is cheap and available with the ratified
         | 1.0 vector extension I know of is the Kendryte K230, which you
         | can find on some boards for about $40 USD:
         | https://developer.canaan-creative.com/k230/dev/zh/00_hardwar...
         | 
         | Note that it's only on one 1.6GHz core, and still pretty anemic
         | otherwise (pi form factor, it's to be expected.) So something
         | "deskop grade" with all the nice extensions and other goodies
         | is probably still a ways off. Maybe next year; we'll have to
         | see -- but lots of useful extensions continue to be ratified
         | today, so it may still be a while before things "cool off."
        
           | mshockwave wrote:
           | SpacemiT K1 on BananaPi is another commonly seen RVV 1.0
           | capable chip. IIRC both Kendryte K230 and SpacemiT K1 are in-
           | order cores.
        
         | 6SixTy wrote:
         | it takes time (~2 years) for silicon designers to go from idea
         | to taping out silicon. The P550's cores are advertised as
         | having good area efficiency, so it could be both getting rid of
         | the vector extensions to optimize area and they just couldn't
         | incorporate them into the design.
         | 
         | I is the base integer instructions
         | 
         | M is integer multiplication
         | 
         | A is atomic
         | 
         | F is single precision float
         | 
         | D is double precision
         | 
         | G is shorthand for all of the above + 2 others that I honestly
         | have no idea what they do
        
           | mshockwave wrote:
           | > 2 others that I honestly have no idea what they do
           | 
           | CSR (i.e. status) register and instruction fence extensions.
           | Instruction fences are most useful in cases where you modify
           | text section during runtime (e.g. JIT or code hot reload)
           | such that you need to ensure the consistency of code across
           | different harts
        
           | jecel wrote:
           | > + 2 others that I honestly have no idea what they do
           | 
           | The original RV32I and RV64I required some control registers
           | for high frequency counters and instruction counters. You
           | also needed the instructions to access these registers. This
           | proved to be too complex for the simplest implementations, so
           | recently (five years ago?) this functionality has been moved
           | to their own extensions.
           | 
           | Including these extensions in G makes the current G have the
           | same functionality as the original G.
        
           | cmrdporcupine wrote:
           | Ok, wow I didn't even clue in that the IMAFD was other
           | extensions, and the G a "rollup" of them, because last time I
           | played with RISC-V it was just with cores that did IMF
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | $400 (16GB DDR5) and $500 (32GB DDR5) because that's not in the
       | blog post.
       | 
       | But I have some questions:
       | 
       | Why the weird form factor? Mini-DTX is supported by a lot of
       | cases but as a motherboard form factor it's incredibly niche
       | compared to Mini-ITX and especially Micro-ATX.
       | 
       | Edit: DTX supposed to be an open standard but it's already a
       | "dead" platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTX_(form_factor)
       | 
       | Why the eMMC? There is an M.2 E key but that's for wireless
       | connection only. Is it a platform limitation that M.2 SSDs can't
       | be used?
        
         | MobiusHorizons wrote:
         | > Why the eMMC? There is an M.2 E key but that's for wireless
         | connection only. Is it a platform limitation that M.2 SSDs
         | can't be used?
         | 
         | Presumably very limited pcie bandwidth. You should think of
         | this more like a raspberry pi than a pc motherboard.
         | 
         | E key slots typically provide 1 lane of pcie 2.0 (even on
         | systems with 3.0 available), while m.2 is 4 lanes and
         | frequently faster pcie 3.0
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | > You should think of this more like a raspberry pi than a pc
           | motherboard
           | 
           | Thanks that makes perfectly sense! I kind of want to buy one
           | now (too bad single 32GB boards can't be bought, minimum
           | order is 256)
        
           | MobiusHorizons wrote:
           | Just checked: looks like it does provide a full size pcie
           | slot. My guess is that the intended use case is for
           | developers testing compatibility. You could almost certainly
           | plug in an nvme drive through an adapter to that full size
           | slot (although booting from it would likely require a custom
           | uboot build) but if you use up the one slot for storage, you
           | can't plug in any other peripherals to test.
        
             | phire wrote:
             | It's a 16x slot, but it only provides 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0
             | 
             | Appears to be a SoC limitation, which only has a single 4x
             | PCIe 3.0 interface, and doesn't appear to support
             | bifurcation (splitting into two 2x slots, or four 4x
             | slots). You could probably throw a PCIe switch on it, but
             | PCIe switches are expensive.
             | 
             | The SoC wasn't designed for this product, it was designed
             | by 3rd party company for computer
             | vision/robotics/manufacturing use cases.
        
           | fer wrote:
           | > You should think of this more like a raspberry pi than a pc
           | motherboard.
           | 
           | For the price tag I think it should be more like a
           | motherboard. Especially when Raspberry Pi 5 has official m.2
           | hats.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | You can connect M.2 NVMe, it just doesn't have a dedicated
             | slot. If you're looking for a cheap device to plug a bunch
             | of different PCIe devices into a RISC-V development board
             | is probably not your ideal pick, look at a normal computer.
        
             | MobiusHorizons wrote:
             | This is effectively an industrial dev board not a product
             | for normal users. They are usually expensive because of low
             | volume
        
           | connicpu wrote:
           | Sometimes not even that. On my motherboard the E key slot is
           | just USB.
           | 
           | EDIT: Originally said USB3, but it's actually USB 2.0.
        
             | MobiusHorizons wrote:
             | I believe the slot usually passes 4 wire usb2 as well as 1
             | lane if pcie. I had no idea usb3 was an option. How does
             | that affect compatibility?
        
               | connicpu wrote:
               | Ah my mistake, it is in fact USB 2.0. There does exist an
               | M.2 key which can provide USB 3, but that's Key B not E.
        
         | Palomides wrote:
         | if you look on the product brief, the M.2 E key is only hooked
         | up via SDIO, not PCIe
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Unless something is particularly unique with this HiFive
         | revision you can use PCIe SSDs it just looks like this one is
         | relatively lane starved and you'll need to eat the PCIe slot to
         | do so (it's a x16 slot physically but only x4 in terms of
         | actual wired lanes). The E-keyed slot is listed as SDIO, but
         | even if it had PCIe wired up it'd be a max of x2 lanes.
        
         | 6SixTy wrote:
         | Honestly, this type of board is something that you aren't
         | really going to just install in a case and forget about it. You
         | are most likely going to have this on a test bench so you can
         | swap out all kinds of different hardware for validation.
         | 
         | Buttons on the bottom for power/reset, 2 different JTAG ports,
         | DIP switches for settings, and remote board management aren't
         | things that are normally found on consumer boards. Mini DTX
         | probably allows them to have a marginally smaller width
         | compared to Micro-ATX while still allowing space for all of
         | that debug functionality with a 2 slot graphics card installed.
         | eMMC is also kind of important for a SOM as well.
        
         | JonChesterfield wrote:
         | mini-dtx is mini-itx with space for an extra slot - in practice
         | a lot of cases support that as a mini-itx board plus dual slot
         | gpu has the same footprint.
        
         | downvotetruth wrote:
         | > "As a result of increased production and economies of scale,
         | we're excited to announce we are able to lower the price to
         | just $399 for the 16GB version and $499 for the 32GB version"
         | 
         | ? Also, both now listed as No Stock Available
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | I benchmarked these against a few other RISC-V boards. They're
       | pretty fast, relative to RISC-V (although not relative to x86):
       | https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2024/11/19/benchmarking-risc-v-sp...
       | 
       | Note the benchmark is not very rigorous, but it reflects what we
       | want to do with these boards which is to build Fedora packages.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Why can't the packages be cross-compiled on a platform with
         | reasonable performance?
        
           | ahoka wrote:
           | Not everything can be easily cross compiled, unfortunately.
        
             | boredatoms wrote:
             | Its also just plain annoying to configure in many cases
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | There's a lot of cases where you want to build something and
           | run it afterwards, such as tests or intermediate tooling used
           | in later steps in the build.
           | 
           | In any case, I actually want to use RISC-V machines for my
           | development environment.
        
           | fweimer wrote:
           | The goal is to actually run RISC-V binaries on RISC-V
           | hardware, to see what works and what doesn't. You wouldn't
           | spot code generations bugs like this one if you merely cross-
           | compile and never run the binaries: https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?
           | p=gcc.git;a=commitdiff;h=c65046ff2e...
           | 
           | For quite some time to come, the main user of the Fedora
           | riscv64 port will be the Fedora riscv64 builders. With cross-
           | compilation, we wouldn't even have that limited use of the
           | binaries produced.
        
           | brucehoult wrote:
           | Many or most packages don't have good cross-build
           | infrastructure. That's important when you're a Fedora or
           | Ubuntu building 50k+ random packages, not just working on GCC
           | / LLVM / Linux Kernel all the time.
           | 
           | Doing "native" build in an emulator works for just about
           | everything, but with a 10x - 15x slowdown compared to native
           | or cross-build.
           | 
           | While price/performance of RISC-V is currently significantly
           | worse than x86, it's not 10x worse.
           | 
           | A $2500 Milk-V Pioneer (64 cores, 128 GB RAM) builds a RISC-V
           | Linux kernel five times faster than a $1500 x86 laptop (24
           | cores) using RISC-V docker/qemu.
           | 
           | A $75 VisionFive 2 or BPI-F3 takes 3 times longer than the
           | x86 with qemu but costs 20 times less.
           | 
           | If you're only building one thing at a time and already have
           | the fast x86 ... then, sure, use that. But if you want a
           | build farm then RISC-V native on either the Pioneer or the
           | VF2 is already much better.
           | 
           | These P550 machines are an incremental improvement again, in
           | price/performance.
           | 
           | For more numbers see:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42395796
        
         | deivid wrote:
         | Thanks for this, I was looking to upgrade my VF2 but I'm not
         | sure it's worth it at this stage, the VF2 is painfully slow,
         | and this board doesn't reach 2x perf
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | Turns out it's better if you use an NVMe adapter in the PCIe
           | slot, in which case it is more than 2x performance. See
           | updated chart.
        
         | drmpeg wrote:
         | I get similar results here. The Banana Pi BPI-F3 was a big
         | disappointment. I was expecting some improvement over the
         | VisionFive 2, but no dice. A big Linux build at -j8 on the
         | BPI-F3 takes essentially the same time as a -j4 build on the
         | VF2.
         | 
         | Apparently the small level 2 caches on the X60 are crippling.
         | 
         | The P550 actually feels "snappy".
        
           | brucehoult wrote:
           | I'm surprised how much faster the Jupiter is than the BPI-F3:
           | 28%.
           | 
           | That's a lot for the same SoC.
           | 
           | And, yes, ridiculously small caches on the BPI-F3 at 0.5 MB
           | for each 4 core cluster, vs 2 MB on the VisionFive 2 and 4 MB
           | on the P550.
           | 
           | The Pioneer still wins for cache and I think real-world speed
           | though, with 4 MB L3 cache per 4 core cluster, but also
           | access to the other 60 MB of L3 cache from the other clusters
           | on the (near) single-threaded parts of your builds (autoconf,
           | linking, that last stubborn .cpp, ...)
        
             | rwmj wrote:
             | The test is probably somewhat disk bound, so I/O
             | architecture matters. For example, we just retested the
             | HiFive Premier P550, but using an NVMe drive (in an adapter
             | in the PCIe slot) instead of the SATA SSD, and performance
             | improved markedly for the exact same hardware. (See updated
             | chart)
        
               | brucehoult wrote:
               | As long as you've got enough RAM for a file cache for the
               | active program binaries and header files, I've never
               | noticed any significant difference between SD card, eMMC,
               | USB3, or NVMe storage for software building on the SBCs I
               | have. It might be different on a Pioneer :-)
               | 
               | I just checked the Linux kernel tree I was testing with.
               | It's 7.2 GB, but 5.6 GB of that is `.git`, which isn't
               | used by the build. So only 1.6 GB of actual source. And
               | much of that isn't used by any given build. Not least the
               | 150 MB of `arch` that isn't in `arch/riscv` (which is 27
               | MB). Over 1 GB is in `drivers`.
               | 
               | riscv-gnu-toolchain has 2.1 GB that isn't in `.git`.
               | Binutils is 488 MB, gcc 1096 MB.
               | 
               | This is all small enough that on an 8 GB or 16 GB board
               | there is going to be essentially zero disk traffic. Even
               | if the disk cache doesn't start off hot, reading less
               | than 2 GB of stuff into disk cache over the course of a 1
               | hour build? It's like 0.5 MB/s, about 1% of what even an
               | SD card will do.
               | 
               | It just simply doesn't matter.
               | 
               | Edit: checking SD card speed on Linux kernel build
               | directory on VisionFive 2 with totally cold disk cache
               | just after a reboot.                   Debian GNU/Linux
               | comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent
               | permitted by applicable law.         Last login: Tue Dec
               | 10 07:39:01 2024 from 192.168.1.85
               | user@starfive:~$ time tar cf - linux/* | cat >/dev/null
               | real    2m37.013s         user    0m2.812s         sys
               | 0m27.398s         user@starfive:~$ du -hs linux
               | 7.3G    linux         user@starfive:~$ du -hs linux/.git
               | 5.6G    linux/.git         user@starfive:~$ time tar cf -
               | linux/* | cat >/dev/null                  real
               | 0m7.104s         user    0m1.120s         sys
               | 0m8.939s
               | 
               | Yeah, so 2m37s seconds to cache everything. vs 67m35s for
               | a kernel build. Maximum possible difference between hot
               | and cold disk cache 3.9% of the build time. PROVIDED only
               | that there is enough RAM that once something has been
               | read it won't be evicted to make room for something else.
               | But in reality it will be much less that that, and
               | possibly unmeasurable. I think most likely what will
               | actually show up is the 30s of CPU time.
               | 
               | I'm having trouble seeing how NVMe vs SATA can make any
               | difference, when SD card is already 25x faster than
               | needed.
               | 
               | I'm not familiar with the grub build at all. Is it really
               | big?
        
               | rwmj wrote:
               | The build directory is 790M (vs 16GB of RAM), but
               | nevertheless the choice of underlying storage made a
               | consistent difference in our tests. We ran them 3+ times
               | each so it should be mostly warm cache.
        
               | brucehoult wrote:
               | Weird. It really seems like something strange is going
               | on. Assuming you get close to 400 MB/s on the NVMe (which
               | is what people get on the 1 lane M.2 on VF2 etc) then it
               | should be just several seconds to read 790M.
        
         | snvzz wrote:
         | Compile time vs x86 doesn't look so bad, considering the x86
         | machine has 4x the cores and is zen4 microarchitecture.
         | 
         | This P550 seems like the first "fast" RISC-V CPU actually
         | available.
        
           | brucehoult wrote:
           | Cross-builds for GNU toolchain, LLVM, Linux Kernel are going
           | to be much faster on a low end (similar price) x86.
           | 
           | But most packages don't have as solid (or any) cross-build
           | infrastructure as those projects.
           | 
           | I did some benchmarks on RISC-V Linux kernel builds (commit
           | 7503345ac5f5, defconfig) this week. Native on SBCs, cross-
           | build on a couple of x86, docker (qemu-user) on x86.
           | 
           | - 1m45s i9-13900HX cross-compile
           | 
           | - 4m29s Milk-V Pioneer (youtube video from 9 months ago ..
           | close enough)
           | 
           | - 10m10s Ryzen 5 4500U (6 cores, Zen2) laptop cross-compile
           | 
           | - 22m48s RISC-V docker on 24 core i9-13900HX laptop
           | 
           | - 67m35s VisionFive 2 (4x U74)
           | 
           | - 88m4s Lichee Pi 4A (4x C910)
           | 
           | I need a figure for SpacemiT in BPI-F3 / Jupiter / LPi3A /
           | DC-Roma II / MuseBook. I think it'll be more or less the same
           | as the VF2.
           | 
           | My guess is the Milk-V Megrez (EIC7700X @1.8 GHz) might come
           | in around 25 minutes, and this HiFive Premier (same Soc @1.4
           | GHz) 30 minutes.
           | 
           | So the P550 machines will probably be a little slower than
           | qemu on the i9. Not a lot. But even the VF2 and LPi4A are
           | going to be much faster than qemu on that 6 core Zen2 -- I
           | haven't measured it, but I'm guessing around 130m.
           | 
           | So if you already have that high core count x86, maybe you
           | don't need a P550 machine.
           | 
           | On the other hand it's good to verify on real hardware.
           | 
           | On the gripping hand, with a 16 GB Megrez costing $199 and my
           | i9 costing $1600, if you want a build farm with 5 or 10 or
           | 100 machines then the P550 is looking pretty good.
           | 
           | VF2 (or Mars) is still looking pretty good for
           | price/performance. The problem there is that being limited to
           | 8 GB RAM isn't good. That's not enough for example to do
           | riscv-gnu-toolchain without swapping. That build is fine on
           | my 16 GB LPi4A, but not my VF2.
           | 
           | 16 GB or 32 GB on the P550 boards is much more robust.
        
       | hoistbypetard wrote:
       | "Now Available" must mean something different to SiFive than it
       | does to me. When I click the links in the press release that
       | purport to let me acquire one, they all say "No Stock Available,"
       | which means the opposite of "Now Available" to me.
       | 
       | They weren't loading at all earlier, though, so saying that I
       | can't get one but showing me the price I can't get it at is some
       | kind of improvement, I guess.
        
         | adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
         | presumably that means that they had stock and then sold through
         | all of it basically instantly.
        
         | brucehoult wrote:
         | 32 GB is out of stock.
         | 
         | 16 GB (which is enough for a quad core, IMO) is $399 with "375
         | in stock, ships tomorrow"
         | 
         | https://www.arrow.com/en/products/hf106/sifive-inc
         | 
         | I ordered a Milk-V Megrez (same ship but 1.8 GHz vs 1.4 GHz
         | here) for $100 less a week ago. The price difference was much
         | bigger then!
        
           | hoistbypetard wrote:
           | Nice. When I looked, the page took forever to load and said
           | 16GB was out of stock as well. I'm tempted by the 16GB board.
        
             | brucehoult wrote:
             | Right now, the 16 GB page is saying "368 parts: Ships
             | tomorrow". SO that's 7 sold since my previous message.
             | 
             | Unless they sold all 375 from yesterday and have restocked
             | since your message. Which strikes me as unlikely.
        
         | ericpruitt wrote:
         | SiFive sent out an email on about the 32GB boards:
         | 
         | > The Grinch struck a little early this year. While the 16GB
         | HIFive Premier P550 boards are in stock at Arrow.com and
         | available now we were so excited to tell you the news we pushed
         | the send button too soon. If you tried to order a 32GB board
         | after yesterday's announcement our distributor is not quite
         | ready. Our sincerest apologies to any of you who experienced
         | difficulties and for multiple emails. We expect this problem to
         | be solved in the next few days and we will send an update as
         | soon as the 32GB boards are available. Thank you for your
         | patience.
        
       | sedatk wrote:
       | Don't capitalize every word in a title. I thought "Ubuntu Now"
       | was a technology that I didn't know about.
        
         | worik wrote:
         | > Don't capitalize every word in a title
         | 
         | It is what they taught me to do at school. So I do it still
        
           | knorker wrote:
           | I'm with parent commenter: please don't.
        
             | ongy wrote:
             | I'm with the middle commenter
             | 
             | Use proper title case in titles.
        
       | stonogo wrote:
       | Can it run a vanilla kernel or is it nailed forever to Sifive's
       | Dev team?
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | It can't run an upstream kernel _yet_ , although it's very
         | likely that we'll get there. SiFive have in the past been very
         | good about getting changes upstream.
        
       | minroot wrote:
       | Why is Ubuntu always the choice, why not fedora or opensuse?
        
         | Octoth0rpe wrote:
         | In some sense, this question answers itself: the most important
         | distro to support is the most popular distro in the space.
        
         | ZiiS wrote:
         | Because Canonical invested in it and they didn't.
        
         | taffronaut wrote:
         | Ubuntu has historically had a business model that is more open
         | to supporting out-of-tree kernel patches
        
         | infamouscow wrote:
         | I can think of two reasons:
         | 
         | 1. Ubuntu invested very heavily into making Linux friendly to a
         | whole generation of makers when nobody else was. Ubuntu is most
         | familiar to them. Canonical will benefit from that investment
         | for the foreseeable future.
         | 
         | 2. Ubuntu benefits from Debian's debootstrap which makes
         | porting to a new architecture substantially easier.
        
         | someone10492 wrote:
         | Because Debian has been one of the first distributions
         | supporting RISC-V and ubuntu is simply using packages from it.
        
       | yuumei wrote:
       | The last SiFive board I had died after about a year of use and is
       | no longer supported so buyer beware
        
       | AshleysBrain wrote:
       | Does anyone know if any browsers have Ubuntu RISC-V ports?
       | Chromium or Firefox perhaps? Might be interesting to give it a
       | spin.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | Firefox has been able to run on RISC-V for as long as I can
         | remember. I'm pretty sure I remember SiFive doing a demo back
         | in 2018 at FOSDEM which included the browser. However generally
         | GUI environments are still quite slow, so it won't be very
         | usable.
         | 
         | Edit: This one I think:
         | https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/riscv/ but I can
         | only see them running Quake, not Firefox.
        
         | drmpeg wrote:
         | The latest Ubuntu image for the P550 has Firefox installed.
         | 
         | https://github.com/sifive/hifive-premier-p550-ubuntu/blob/ma...
        
       | boredatoms wrote:
       | I hope they can put out an RVA23 level board soon
        
       | knorker wrote:
       | RV64GBC, so still no vector instructions?
       | 
       | Does anyone know if there's a den board / soc that does the V set
       | yet?
        
         | OrvalWintermute wrote:
         | You can get vectorized instructions from Microchip at a much
         | higher price point in a few months on RISCV with the
         | forthcoming $1500ish Devboard - it has some nice specs, 10GigE
         | 
         | https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microprocessors/64-...
         | 
         | This is similar to the High Performance Space Computer which
         | will be coming out in Rad Hardened & Rad Tolerant versions, I
         | think these devboards will be 40k-60k
         | 
         | https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microprocessors/64-...
         | 
         | There is also a lower end 4 core unit too, list price for the
         | devkit is $150, currently shipping.
         | 
         | https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microprocessors/64-...
        
           | camel-cdr wrote:
           | Where did you get the $1500?
           | 
           | That's an insane price for something which will perform
           | similarly to the BPI-F3. It has double the DLEN, but it also
           | only runs at 1GHz, while the BPI-F3 is available at 1.6GHz
           | and 1.8GHz for way cheaper.
           | 
           | > There is also a lower end 4 core unit too, list price for
           | the devkit is $150, currently shipping.
           | 
           | This is an entirely different processor, the now very old
           | SiFive U54 at 0.6GHz.
        
             | OrvalWintermute wrote:
             | Apologies, I was incorrect. The price is $2895 listed,
             | which is still a great deal.
        
           | knorker wrote:
           | The latter seems to only be RV64GC, meaning no vector
           | instructions, right?
           | 
           | Your first link though, based on PIC64HX, seems to be what
           | I'm waiting for. I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks!
        
             | OrvalWintermute wrote:
             | The HX has vector instructions, the GX doesn't.
        
       | ThinkBeat wrote:
       | I get that RISC-V is exciting as an open-source phenomena, but
       | that is a pretty expensive piece of kit.
       | 
       | Is this in par with or faster than comparable ARM, ADM or Intel
       | processors at the same price level?
       | 
       | Or more performance per watt?
       | 
       | Or an instructino set that makes a lot of operation super fast?
       | 
       | What is the upside?
        
         | eightysixfour wrote:
         | Open source, open ISA, embedded systems. That's it.
         | 
         | We are still years away from boards where they are interesting
         | to people who are only interested in laptop or higher
         | performance classes.
        
         | brucehoult wrote:
         | SiFive's boards are always more expensive than 3rd party boards
         | using the same CPU cores. They are aimed primarily at SiFive IP
         | customers who are designing their own chips, to develop
         | software on before their chips are ready.
         | 
         | > Is this in par with or faster than comparable ARM, ADM or
         | Intel processors at the same price level?
         | 
         | rwjm's package build benchmark shows it as 25% faster than a
         | comparable uarch Raspberry Pi 4.
         | 
         | It's been some time since Intel or AMD had similar products: I
         | guess something around Pentium III, Pentium M, or early Core 2.
         | 
         | Prices are a function of production volume (and features /
         | quality, but mostly volume).
         | 
         | The Pi 4 is if course a mass-market product and is cheaper.
         | Arm's own "Juno" A72 dev board is $10,000, which is 20x more
         | than this SiFive board.
         | 
         | https://www.elementsearch.com/arm-v2m-juno-0317d-evaluation-...
         | 
         | > What is the upside?
         | 
         | It (and Sipeed, Pine64, Milk-V boards with the same SoC) is the
         | fastest RISC-V hardware, per core, currently available.
         | 
         | The $2500 Milk-V Pioneer is overall faster due to having 64
         | cores (and 128 GB RAM, 32 PCIe lanes), but is slightly slower
         | per core.
         | 
         | You buy these early dev boards because you want or need RISC-V
         | for some reason, not because you want the cheapest fastest
         | hardware of any kind.
        
         | jjrh wrote:
         | Not an unreasonable price for a dev board.
         | 
         | The key part is 'dev' - it's for people doing development on
         | the platform.
        
       | MisterTea wrote:
       | Huh. Its only 17:45 EST and Arrow is already sold out.
        
         | haunter wrote:
         | 16GB is available
         | https://www.arrow.com/en/products/hf106/sifive-inc (375 in
         | stock)
        
       | brucehoult wrote:
       | Note that the link in the announcement takes you to the 32 GB,
       | which is (instantly?) out of stock.
       | 
       | 16 GB (which is enough for a quad core, IMO) is $399 with "375 in
       | stock, ships tomorrow"
       | 
       | https://www.arrow.com/en/products/hf106/sifive-inc
       | 
       | I ordered a Milk-V Megrez (same SoC but 1.8 GHz vs 1.4 GHz here)
       | for $100 less a week ago. The price difference was much bigger
       | then!
        
         | brucehoult wrote:
         | Oops! $200 less ... $199 for the 16 GB. And supposedly faster.
         | Also the Megrez can be powered from a standard 12V barrel
         | connector if you don't want to put it in a case / use an ATX
         | power supply.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | So the cool stuff "currently not supported in software", as usual
       | in Linux workloads.
       | 
       | If I am paying for this with Ubuntu pre-installed, the very least
       | is to fully support the hardware they are trying to sell.
        
       | WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
       | Linux not even mentioned once, it is Ubuntu(r)(c)
       | 
       | Who is their target audience? definitely not me
        
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