[HN Gopher] Mysterious New Jersey drone sightings prompt call fo...
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       Mysterious New Jersey drone sightings prompt call for 'state of
       emergency'
        
       Author : anigbrowl
       Score  : 39 points
       Date   : 2024-12-11 19:02 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | lisper wrote:
       | Martians!
        
       | ents wrote:
       | Why are they not being shot down at the very least?
        
         | soared wrote:
         | I don't think anyone has the tools to go to an area after a
         | spotting and capture/destroy them quick enough.
        
           | hoppyhoppy2 wrote:
           | Not to mention that it's illegal to shoot down aircraft
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | Shooting large, apparently car-sized, stuff down over populated
         | areas isn't a good idea.
         | 
         | As an aside, I presume at this point, the military and FBI are
         | stationing their SIGINT aircraft over the area and probably
         | have a good idea what's going on but aren't saying publicly.
         | These things are emitting electromagnetic energy in more ways
         | that one, eg. radios and electric motor RF signatures.
         | 
         | RIP the SkyCircles accounts on Twitter.
        
         | KK7NIL wrote:
         | The FAA looks down on people shooting at flying objects they
         | can barely recognize, as this guy learned the hard way:
         | https://www.yahoo.com/news/retiree-shot-walmart-delivery-dro...
        
         | dartos wrote:
         | Gravity
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | "Shot down" with what? Surface-to-air missiles? Duck hunters
         | with shotguns? Attack helicopters with miniguns?
         | 
         | Whatever you spray into the sky (to knock a drone out of it)
         | will also fall back to earth, plausibly generating civilian
         | casualties on the ground. (And if you use lasers - high power
         | laser beams have plenty of safety issues, too.)
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | If Ukraine is any indication you shoot them down with other
           | drones.
        
             | gowld wrote:
             | No one in Ukraine is in the habit of shooting down
             | commercial airliners and helicopters, though.
        
             | bell-cot wrote:
             | Ukraine's capabilities in that domain are plausibly far
             | more advanced that America's.
             | 
             | Also - costs, casualties, & collateral damage may be far
             | more acceptable in an active war zone, and against drones
             | which are busy killing people & destroying valuables
             | whenever they are not shot down.
        
           | antonvs wrote:
           | > Duck hunters with shotguns?
           | 
           | Duck Dynasty season 12 is going to be a doozy
        
         | OutOfHere wrote:
         | It's always wrong (in every possible way) to be the first one
         | to engage hostilities. To be morally in the clear, you should
         | always wait for the other side to engage first. If we didn't
         | follow this doctrine, we would've already had a nuclear
         | holocaust. Warmongers and civilization don't mix.
         | 
         | We don't know anything about their capabilities as individual
         | drones or as a cluster of drones. For all you know, when you
         | shoot one, the other ten take that as declaration of war.
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | Some of these photos are of passenger planes. I think most
         | agree that shooting down passenger planes is bad.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Why? Just follow them and see where they land / head to (they
         | can't fly forever) and ask some questions to the owners.
        
       | soared wrote:
       | Bit concerning that no government agencies have figured out
       | what's going on, but hardly seems like there is a reason for a
       | limited state of emergency given there is no known threat at all.
       | 
       | My guess is a US company is gathering data and hasn't admitted to
       | do so without some type of licensing/etc
        
         | potato3732842 wrote:
         | >My guess is a US company is gathering data and hasn't admitted
         | to do so without some type of licensing/etc
         | 
         | My guess is "Flowers By Irene" or more likely someone
         | contracted to do stuff on their behalf for optics/politics
         | reasons. Real companies that do drone stuff are pretty by the
         | book because they know the fed crosshairs are on them.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | That's the beauty of things like this. Most local
         | municipalities are just not equipped for this type of
         | situation. The feds are, but the locals have to become aware,
         | realize they can't do anything, and then request help. A mayor
         | calls the governor, the governor calls the feds. That's the
         | hierarchy, and that's pretty much what happened.
        
         | thephyber wrote:
         | There was an article 1-2 days ago saying that one was in the
         | area of a LifeFlight helicopter, preventing the safe operation
         | of that medical transport. There has been a threat articulated.
         | It may not be a true report and the response may not be
         | proportional/appropriate to the threat, but to say there is
         | zero threat is wrong.
         | 
         | Also, reportedly these are the size of SUVs. I don't believe
         | you need that much of an investment for "gathering data".
        
       | LinuxBender wrote:
       | Seems like an opportunity for a training exercise. Have the FAA
       | put a TFR in place and let the national guard interdict, ECW and
       | such. Take control, land it in the x-ray scanner, check for
       | explosives then take it apart and get telemetry data. The US
       | taught Ukraine how to do this with great success. No joy on ECW,
       | disassemble them in the sky.
       | 
       | If the drones were legit they would be broadcasting their ID as
       | would the controllers and they would be within visible range
       | unless they have the approved part 107 on file _or part 107
       | waiver_ and approval for long range drone usage.
       | 
       | If these are not really drones and it is just mass hysteria the
       | national guard would rule that out rather fast. As a bonus there
       | is no added cost to the tax payer. This is just swapping out one
       | training exercise with another.
        
       | mkmk wrote:
       | A practical question, beyond the questions of whose drones these
       | are: what are they looking for?
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | They're just looking for the Situation or Snooki out on the
         | Shore. Someone forgot to tell them what decade it is.
        
         | TheBlight wrote:
         | Presumably something with a heat signature since they're
         | operating at night.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | The most plausible explanation is that people who know nothing
         | are in hysterics over legally operated and licensed aircraft.
         | 
         | ATC has radar, military bases have radar. If there were
         | threats, they would see them and do something about them. Folks
         | are reporting to their state senators? and some whacky
         | congressmen have said some absurd things, but no one who is
         | actually responsible cares and folks are trying to spin it like
         | they're clueless.
         | 
         | This is the equivalent of calling the FBI because you're a
         | pepperpot and you saw someone you didn't recognize walking down
         | the street.
         | 
         | Drones near sensitive power infrastrucure... like those
         | transmission sites will all the equipment are all over the
         | place. And police stations? Give me a break.
         | 
         | There's probably some unlicensed or amateur operators doing
         | slightly inappropriate things, but silly people are trying to
         | frame it like some kind of attack.
         | 
         | Also some of them are certainly just ordinary airplanes.
        
       | apcragg wrote:
       | The photos I've seen posted look very obviously like commercial
       | airliners and helicopters with their navigation lights on. You
       | can even make out the American Airlines livery on the tail!
       | 
       | https://www.app.com/story/news/local/new-jersey/2024/12/11/d...
        
         | _djo_ wrote:
         | Same. This is a ridiculous mass hysteria driven by media
         | sensationalism and ignorant members of the public.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Just out of curiosity, I took a look at the map for Spring
           | Lake, NJ. There's an airport ~7 miles inland. There's a
           | national guard center just to the south. Just to the north,
           | there's Sylvan Lake that looks like the profile of a
           | jetliner.
           | 
           | What's this got to do with anything? Nothing, but it's no
           | less of an explanation than what these people have proposed.
        
           | fourteenfour wrote:
           | Lol, also rep. Jeff Van Drew claiming without evidence that
           | the drones are coming from an Iranian mothership off the
           | coast.
        
             | gowld wrote:
             | In his defense, he is a Cold War relic.
        
           | postalrat wrote:
           | Is that your gut feeling or do you know something the
           | government isn't willing to reveal?
        
             | antonvs wrote:
             | It's essentially a null hypothesis. There doesn't seem to
             | be any actual evidence of anything. It's all based on
             | social media posts. It shows all the signs of being a mass
             | panic.
             | 
             | The OP article put it like this:
             | 
             | > It is not known whether a group or individual might be
             | behind the phenomenon, or whether any credible issue even
             | exists - there has been speculation that the flurry of
             | activity might merely amount to confusion over sightings of
             | regular planes or be the product of social media
             | distortions.
             | 
             | If you think there's some real issue here, can you explain
             | _why_ you think that?
        
           | labster wrote:
           | The AA livery just means it's a false flag attack. Truly, we
           | haven't seen such an invasion in Grover's Mill, New Jersey
           | since 1938.
        
         | gowld wrote:
         | Which picture has the AA livery visible?
        
           | apcragg wrote:
           | 6 and 7. If you squint and lean on a bit of confirmation
           | bias, photo 9 looks like a commercial airliner with the
           | Alaska Airlines livery.
        
             | gowld wrote:
             | Ah. Knowing what AA tails look like makes it look likely
             | that the blurry triangle has blue and red in the right
             | places.
             | 
             | Without context, it does appear to be a quadcopter-ish
             | shape, but since the caption says the object was at high
             | altitude, it fits a regular airplane well.
             | 
             | People live on site watching the object move should
             | certainly know better. (Perhaps they do know, and are
             | intentionally trolling.)
        
         | nimbius wrote:
         | this would be relatively easy to solve with historical ADS-B
         | data correlated to the time and date of the spottings.
         | 
         | https://adsb.lol/
        
           | apcragg wrote:
           | AAL578 flew by Tom's River (Bay Shore area, where the photos
           | were taken) around 20:43 on December 8th which is right when
           | the photos were taking, on a heading that would result in an
           | observing on the ground looking at the port side of the
           | aircraft, just as seen in the picture.
        
         | daemonologist wrote:
         | Yeah that's very clearly a helicopter in most of the photos,
         | and the rest could easily be an airliner. At most it might be
         | some knucklehead with an old RC helicopter in violation of FAA
         | regs (flying at night, no remote ID).
         | 
         | If you were some foreign adversary why would you put navigation
         | lights on your secret reconnaissance drone?
        
         | jklinger410 wrote:
         | There is more evidence here than just pictures from this one
         | article.
         | 
         | The pentagon, for example, just declared that they do not know
         | what they are[1]. Among many other credible sources.
         | 
         | [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1hc1l58/pentagon_no_e
         | ...
        
           | antonvs wrote:
           | > There is more evidence here than just pictures from this
           | one article.
           | 
           | What "more evidence"?
           | 
           | All the Pentagon is saying is that there's _no_ evidence
           | that's a foreign entity is behind it. Not "more" evidence.
        
         | gradus_ad wrote:
         | I live in NJ. I've seen these drones. They are not commercial
         | airliners or helicopters. They are loud, fly low and slow, and
         | make abrupt turns unlike any planes I've seen. Their lights are
         | also very different from other aircraft.
         | 
         | I can see how it's tempting to chalk this up to hysteria, but
         | they are absolutely large drones of some kind.
        
         | downWidOutaFite wrote:
         | You are absolutely wrong. Why is this the top comment?
        
         | plipt wrote:
         | I find the discussions on Metabunk.org helpful with news
         | stories like this.
         | 
         | For example here is a clip that a Fox News host recorded.
         | Presented as a drone, but is it not clearly just an airplane
         | filmed flying directly overhead?
         | 
         | https://www.metabunk.org/threads/drones-over-new-jersey.1377...
        
       | dantillberg wrote:
       | There was a similar phenomenon a few years back in Colorado:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Colorado_drone....
        
       | pygar wrote:
       | So is Iran just going to be the default bogeyman until they drum
       | up enough negative sentiment for a war?
       | 
       | Iran doesn't really have any military projection. It can't even
       | move equipment and people into countries it's close to (Syria,
       | Iraq), let alone the US. Why would they take the risk of doing
       | this? It's obviously bullshit.
        
         | potato3732842 wrote:
         | >Iran doesn't really have any military projection.
         | 
         | I'll take "things people said about Afghanistan in 1999" for
         | 400!
         | 
         | Just to be clear, I fully agree with your sentiment. Probably
         | not Iran or any other foreign power.
        
       | NotYourLawyer wrote:
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_Mooninite_panic
        
         | ChrisArchitect wrote:
         | a recent thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42225609
        
       | OutOfHere wrote:
       | In the worst case, if these were to be Chinese military drones,
       | they could now be testing our responses, and we could be in for a
       | really bad time when war does happen. Of course I hope that this
       | is not the case.
        
       | gowld wrote:
       | What kind of equipment (available to civilians) can capture
       | accurate and useful data about of UFO size, distance, and
       | trajectory/heading?
        
       | downWidOutaFite wrote:
       | Israel has been mounting guns and speakers on long-distance
       | quadcopters and shooting at Gazans. Only a short time until the
       | tech becomes widespread. Israel seems to be a proving ground for
       | mass control tech like this. I'm having a hard time seeing how
       | society is not going to devolve into tech fascism.
        
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       (page generated 2024-12-11 23:00 UTC)