[HN Gopher] Evolving my ergonomic setup (or, my laptop with extr...
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Evolving my ergonomic setup (or, my laptop with extra steps)
Author : Liriel
Score : 91 points
Date : 2024-12-11 08:56 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ntietz.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ntietz.com)
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| A Ploopy trackball - they're the best although I do kind of want
| a wireless one as well.
| ntietz wrote:
| The bearings are sooooo satisfying. I would also love to have a
| wireless one.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| I'm really tempted to get another one for use with my laptop,
| but I'm currently using a left-handed Elecom trackball that
| is wireless - it's fine, but not the sheer luxury of a
| Ploopy.
| ntietz wrote:
| ooh that's a good idea. I have wanted something wireless to
| make it more convenient to do supine computing, so that
| could be just the ticket.
|
| and cheers to another lefty mouse user!
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| I feel like an imposter as I'm right handed, but taught
| myself to use a mouse/trackball left handed for better
| ergonomics.
| Cumpiler69 wrote:
| Same reason for me I only buy laptops who's displays can open
| nearly 180 degrees (so no MacBooks): it allows for a wider choice
| of more ergonomic postures looking straight ahead instead of down
| on the desk.
| theshackleford wrote:
| Ironically for ergonomics, I need to look down. I significantly
| increased my daily pain by trying to follow standard ergonomic
| advice because I failed to take into account my unique needs.
| JackMorgan wrote:
| I like the newest design! The hook and loop for the power adapter
| in particular really is a great idea for something that needs to
| be removed so frequently.
| shahzaibmushtaq wrote:
| A real-life example of _necessity is the mother of invention as
| well as innovation_.
| maeln wrote:
| This does look very cool. But my advise for anyone suffering from
| pain to their arms, hands, backs, and any other body parts that
| usually hurt for people working on computer all day: Do modest,
| but regular mobility and strength exercises. While having an
| ergonomic (and cool looking at that) setup is important, it wont
| save you from muscle atrophy. A physical therapist might help you
| find the right kind of exercises for you. This is often not
| obvious, because the muscle you need to reinforce / train are
| often not actually the one hurting. And you need to do it
| regularly. But if you stick to it, the payoff is much better than
| any setup I ever had.
| thisissomething wrote:
| > This is often not obvious, because the muscle you need to
| reinforce / train are often not actually the one hurting.
|
| As someone who has done physical therapy for different issues,
| this is spot on. Lower back issues were actually due to weak
| hamstrings, and ankle issues due to weak calves.
|
| Doing daily mobility and strength exercises as part of my
| mourning routine improved my health as a whole. A couple months
| in, and all random aches, pains, and soreness that i'd feel
| upon waking up or during the day were simply gone. And it only
| takes me 30 minutes a day. It's a pretty awesome alternative to
| doom scrolling.
| theshackleford wrote:
| I wish it only took me 30 minutes a day.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| I'll bite. Why does it take longer for you?
| maeln wrote:
| Not the commenter, but AFAIK, people with some condition
| might have to put significantly more effort, at least at
| the beginning, to get equivalent result. The typical case
| would be for overweight/obese people. While mobility and
| strength always help, it won't counter balance all the
| strain that the extra weight put on your body. It will be
| more efficient to focus on getting lean first, and then
| focusing on strength/mobility. Although it is possible to
| do both (and maybe recommended ? But i am way out of my
| depth here).
| nemomarx wrote:
| a little regular exercise helps with weight loss, at
| least in anecdotal stuff. not that you can burn away a
| bad diet with exercise but the cardio and exertion help
| with the stress of dieting (lots of nice endorphins in a
| runners high!) and seem to aid metabolism a little.
|
| doing a half hour at the gym 5 nights a week was like
| half of my weight loss routine basically.
| theshackleford wrote:
| I just have a lot of things I have to do in my program,
| and I have to do them twice a day, every day. I thought
| it might be better not to do it every day, and asked
| that, but was told no by two separate physios and my care
| team and so twice a day every day it remains. I also do
| in person physio and pilates on top of this three days a
| week.
|
| It's obviously good for me (what kind of exercise isnt I
| suppose) but id probably feel better if I was getting out
| of it what I wanted, which i'm not and i've now been told
| I probably never will. But I cant stop because even
| though im not getting what I want, if I stop, in the long
| run, i'm probably even worse off. (Though, isnt everyone
| really.)
|
| Id far prefer to move over to something like a bodyweight
| fitness program on a three day a week rotation, but I
| just cant do it physically until I undergo further
| evaluation and likely surgery, and would not have the
| energy to fit it in on top of my current physio regieme
| even outside of that.
|
| I didnt mean "I wish it was only 30 minutes" in that I
| hate doing it, i'm just tired and it takes a lot of my
| time. I think at 30 minutes a day, it would just feel a
| whole lot easier to fit into my life, as opposed to
| building my life around it. I need a minimum now of about
| 1h30m before work, and after. Which means everything else
| in my life has to bend to accomodate that.
|
| I do miss sessions occasionally, but I try not too
| because i'm only cheating myself, nobody else. I have a
| spreadsheet I use to keep myself honest.
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| > mourning routine
|
| What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
|
| /i
| thisissomething wrote:
| ahahahahh, good catch. small oopsie from a non-native
| speaker.
| ntietz wrote:
| This is great advice! It took me 2 years and many doctors
| before I wound up at a physical therapist who figured out my
| nerve issue in 10 minutes. It was _wild_ how they could move my
| shoulder and reproduce it. Now I'm working on strengthening
| stuff to make it better--and keeping the setup for a defense in
| depth against other issues
| toasterlovin wrote:
| Just jumping on this to say: I had chronic lower back and wrist
| pain for a long time. Had the whole ergonomic setup. Adjustable
| desk, Kinesis keyboard, vertical mice, etc. What fixed me was
| starting to squat. Took like 3 weeks of squatting and I haven't
| had back or wrist pain since (it's been 10+ years). Now I just
| use the standard (and very nonergonomic) Apple keyboard and
| mouse.
| jdreaver wrote:
| Huge +1 to this, but I would also add walking _at least_ 8000
| steps per day. I still had some minor, nagging pain until I
| started walking more. Turns out humans are not meant to sit
| all day!
|
| I can highly recommend a book called _Built to Move_ [0]. It
| tells you to do a lot of things that many people consider
| common sense, like walk every day, eat vegetables, sleep 8
| hours, etc. However, it also explains _why_ to do these
| things pretty concisely. The most impactful argument it made
| to me was you can't counteract sitting for 12 hours a day
| with any amount of exercise. You have to sit less and move
| around more.
|
| [0] https://thereadystate.com/built-to-move/
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Yup, can confirm. Had forearm pain for years (started in the
| wrists when I started using a laptop at school), did the whole
| round of ergonomic keyboards, joystick-mouse, etc. Eventually
| went to a personal trainer who had me try pushups, couldn't do
| them because of wrist pain. He then made me do deadlifts, which
| were tricky at first because my grip strength wasn't great, but
| after just a few sessions it improved markedly, and with it, my
| wrist/forearm pain. Long-term relief, too. I'm only now (seven,
| eight years later?) starting to feel it again.
| worthless-trash wrote:
| Are you lifting at the moment ?
| 243423443 wrote:
| I had a similar experience. Until I started exercising, I had
| very bad pain in my shoulders and neck from too much desk
| work. Every couple of weeks I would develop a "stiff neck". I
| also had pain in my wrists occasionally.
|
| Lifting weights for one hour twice a week has alleviated my
| problems completely. I feel healthier than ever!
| brokenmachine wrote:
| My theory is that because your muscles are a little bit
| tensed for a long period of time, there's not enough movement
| to move the blood and lactic acid around, and eventually it
| builds up and becomes painful.
|
| So even just doing a little bit of mobility exercises with
| light weights helps a lot.
| nicholasjarnold wrote:
| Full agree. My wife is a physical therapist (DPT, Northwestern)
| and the owner of a PT practice. I say this with some (very
| limited) authority, repeating things she has said to me:
|
| 1) Absolutely seek the advice of a good PT. It's not like going
| to a chiropractor where you'll get signed up for the "forever
| plan". You go, pay for a few visits or even just 1 and they
| will evaluate and give you things to do on your own. You're
| empowered directly to change your trajectory vs being reliant
| upon them week after week. In many states PTs have what is
| called "direct access" meaning they can see and treat you
| without any MD referrals being required. Also if you can afford
| it (HSA/FSA accounts are fine here), try to go to a "cash pay"
| PT that isn't burdened by death grip of our insurance system.
| You'll get better 1:1 attention and probably a much less
| overburdened PT.
|
| 2) Stand up and walk around at least a couple times an hour (I
| know, not practical for many of us) for 5 mins or so.
|
| 3) Sit on an exercise ball while at your desk and
| simultaneously think about your posture on a background thread.
| This will help you with core strength quite a bit over time.
| This is something most of us with desk jobs (and even most of
| us period) could use improvement on. She sees serious athletes
| who even have weak <random latin word> muscles hidden in spots
| they'd never think about.
|
| 4) Sometimes, like when it comes to pain in hands/wrists, you
| would want to seek out an occupational therapist (OT) instead
| of or in addition to a PT, who don't specialize in treating
| those types of dysfunctions.
|
| Good luck getting/staying well!
|
| disclaimer: This is not medical advice and I have zero formal
| training in any physical or medical science. Consult a
| professional. :)
| elric wrote:
| I imagine we'll be seeing more personalized setups as time
| progresses. Custom keyboards have been pretty feasible and
| affordable for a good while now, with things like QMK and even
| custom PCB designers. It can still be a bit fiddly, so it's
| mostly keyboard nutters such as myself who go down that rabbit
| hole.
|
| Custom trackpads/mice/trackballs haven't gained as much traction,
| they're not quite as simple as keyboards, and maybe fewer people
| realise they could benefit from one. I think I might like an
| upright ergonomic mouse that's shaped to my hand, but then I'm so
| glued to my keyboard that it hardly seems worth the effort.
|
| As a child I always wanted a chair with a split keyboard built
| into the armrests. Probalby inspired by Palpatine's fancy chair.
| Maybe I'll make that investment one day ...
| akerl_ wrote:
| I remember the chair mount being a post on the keyboard.io
| community forum. Somebody built that setup with the Model 01.
|
| Looked amazing; IIRC the tricky part was how to wire it back to
| the computer when the chair was on wheels.
| gigaflop wrote:
| >> I think I might like an upright ergonomic mouse that's
| shaped to my hand
|
| I use a Logitech MX Vertical mouse for work, and actually love
| it for pretty much all non-gaming/pixel-perfect tasks. It feels
| like it naturally fits my hand in terms of shape and size,
| which adds up over 40h weeks.
| worldsayshi wrote:
| How far are we with brain control interfaces though? I've seen
| some people playing games with off-the-shelf-ish non invasive
| eeg devices. Although there seemed to be some delay and
| crudeness to it.
|
| If the signal to noise level is acceptable it has to be doable
| to improve it until you can type with it right?
| coreyh14444 wrote:
| Bonus Framework Laptop spotting :)
| gibbitz wrote:
| I love that the desk in the shots is a coffee bar. Thinking of
| how customized my coffee setups are it is a clear analogy for
| ergonomics. Adapting an activity to one's biology.
| ntietz wrote:
| I'm a sucker for aesthetics, and that is my most aesthetic spot
| for photo shoots
| vladak wrote:
| This feels familiar. I lug my Lenovo laptop, the Logitech
| ergonomic mouse, aluminium laptop stand and external Keychron
| keyboard (thinking about buying the Q10 with Alice layout),
| mostly to have convenient setup on the go, not primarily for
| ergonomics. Carrying all this stuff plus the extra other things
| in the daily backpack is certainly not ergonomic, however I think
| about it as training for some long hikes.
|
| I also use the LG DualUp display at home, like it very much.
| Similarly, my home setup has the rain design mStand next to it.
|
| Now, if the espresso machine could be also carried with the
| computer setup..
| ntietz wrote:
| The LG DualUp is such a gem!
|
| You may be interested in one of my current projects, I'll post
| details when it's done, but I stripped down a Crossland CC1 and
| am rebuilding it in an enclosure I can travel with.
|
| I think we'd get along.
| akho wrote:
| Their arms and neck hurt from computer use, so they develop
| elaborate setups to be able to use computers more.
|
| I just hope the ingenuity will run out before their body reaches
| an unrecoverable state.
| dammaj wrote:
| Well, I don't the intention is to spend more time using the
| computer. When your work consists of using the computer, it is
| "rational" to do whatever is possible to minimize the
| undesirable effects and any harm. Now, if you are suggesting
| that OP should change his work (or his hobby) then your I don't
| think your comment is helpful. Regards.
| ntietz wrote:
| The OP is a woman who uses she/her pronouns.
| dammaj wrote:
| Well, sorry if that was offensive, I should have used
| "they" in case of doubt.
| ntietz wrote:
| It's a "yes and" approach. I've been pursuing physical therapy
| and medical treatment the whole time as well.
| akho wrote:
| Glad to hear that, and hope you can work it out.
| margalabargala wrote:
| This is a bit unfair.
|
| Their arms and neck hurt from using computers (specifically
| laptops) in their factory configuration.
|
| They have reconfigured the physical layout to no longer cause
| pain when used.
| tokai wrote:
| Balls ever worked for me. Makes my hands cramped. Bar or
| rollermouse (rollermice?) has worked wonders for me though. Keeps
| the elbows tucked in, and makes both hands able to share the work
| load.
|
| That being said with that amount of effort in making an ergonomic
| workstation, perhaps the first move should have been a dock and a
| proper screen than can be positioned correctly.
| progforlyfe wrote:
| that's really fuckin cool!
| resource_waste wrote:
| I don't think the solution is to move your body less.
|
| Having multiple desks and desk heights and possibly multiple
| keyboards is probably what is needed. Not to mention stretching
| and strengthening.
|
| I'd recommend OP go to physical therapy.
| Tarrosion wrote:
| OP, you have a comment there about mouse support in the
| Keyboardio. I've been using a Keyboardio since 2019 and haven't
| much tried the mouse support -- any advice? How did you set it
| up?
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