[HN Gopher] The Theory and Technique of Electronic Music (2006)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Theory and Technique of Electronic Music (2006)
        
       Author : ofalkaed
       Score  : 285 points
       Date   : 2024-12-08 22:46 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (msp.ucsd.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (msp.ucsd.edu)
        
       | nonrandomstring wrote:
       | The second best book about Pure Data, so I've heard.
       | 
       | [ Yes Miller, that's fighting talk round here too :) ]
       | 
       | Seriously, this is a very very good place to start learning audio
       | DSP in general because you hit the ground running, making sounds
       | you can compose actual music with right away.
        
         | ofalkaed wrote:
         | What is the best book?
         | 
         | Don't think I would call this about PureData, it just uses
         | PureData for examples and the knowledge it provides is more
         | general.
        
           | nyankosensei wrote:
           | I don't know what the best book would be, but I found this
           | extract from Andy Farnell's book "Designing Sound" to be a
           | very helpful introduction to Pure Data:
           | 
           | http://aspress.co.uk/ds/pdf/pd_intro.pdf
           | 
           | Another useful book is "Loadbang - ProgrammingElectronic
           | Music in Pd" by Johannes Kreidler. The 2nd edition is
           | evidently out of print, but a free download is available
           | here:
           | 
           | https://www.wolke-verlag.de/musikbuecher/johannes-
           | kreidler-l...
        
           | nonrandomstring wrote:
           | Of course Millers is the best book, I'm just joshing.
           | 
           | He created the language.
           | 
           | And I'd argue it's more than just a "language", it's a
           | creative paradigm.
           | 
           | What's more TTEM is still available for free download from
           | World Scientific Press, whereas MIT allowed me only to make a
           | subset of mine free.
           | 
           | Another thing of note; Miller has carefully conserved the
           | development of Vanilla Pd such that every example in his book
           | (and mine) still work exactly as they did more than 10 years
           | ago. How many languages can boast that stability?
        
       | empath75 wrote:
       | This is a weird title for the book, because there's very little
       | musical content in the book at all. It's about sound synthesis
       | and signal processing. It's audio engineering, which is a nice
       | skill to have for music making, but it's not music theory.
        
         | jrajav wrote:
         | Experimenting with timbre and the nature of sound itself is
         | absolutely musical. That's a big reason why people love to
         | listen to many different kinds of electronic music in the first
         | place (or things like heavily distorted guitars).
         | 
         | Music is not just about combining 12TET pitches in different
         | ways. Everything about the experience of music is open game for
         | creative expression.
        
         | sbuttgereit wrote:
         | During my university studies, I took courses in electro-
         | accoustic music composition. Significant amounts of time dealt
         | with synthesis and signal processing because those were
         | critical elements in these kinds of compositions.
         | 
         | It's absolutely different than composition for traditional
         | instruments in this regard because the sounds you are using to
         | compose with are being created by the composer and much as are
         | the notes, rhythms, and structure of the composition.
         | 
         | So for me, the title makes perfect sense.
        
           | Rochus wrote:
           | The first sentence of the foreword brings to the point, what
           | the book is about:
           | 
           | " _The Theory and Technique of Electronic Music is a uniquely
           | complete source of information for the computer synthesis of
           | rich and interesting musical timbres._ "
           | 
           | Whereas tools like Max Mathews' (btw. the author of the
           | foreword) MUSIC programs and their successors clearly
           | separate music composition and instrument building (i.e.
           | sound synthesis), later tools like Max, PD or SuperCollider
           | are blurring this difference. Nevertheless the difference is
           | still maintained by all institutions where electronic music
           | is studied and performed (e.g. IRCAM).
        
             | RossBencina wrote:
             | On the matter of institutions: IRCAM is the paradigmatic
             | example of composer / technologist role demarcation, but I
             | would question whether this extreme position "is still
             | maintained by all institutions" -- it certainly was not at
             | my alma mater and I doubt at UCSD either. As you say, Max
             | (coincidentally a product of Miller Puckette and IRCAM) and
             | it's more recent ilk have empowered composers to
             | independently build their own instruments and this practice
             | has been ongoing within the academy for at least 35 years
             | now.
        
               | Rochus wrote:
               | Maybe I'm a bit biased because I was there for a study
               | visit in the eighties. Of course it depends on the use
               | case; if the composition is fully electronic, the
               | composer can essentially be the same person as the
               | performer, conductor and producer, so there is no big
               | need for a score; live coding goes even further and "the
               | composition" appears during the performance; specific
               | tools have been implemented for these use-cases (e.g.
               | Standford has a long tradition for such tools).
        
               | spacechild1 wrote:
               | As someone who studied computer music in the mid 2010s I
               | can second that! All the composers in my generation who
               | use live electronics do it themselves.
               | 
               | The devide between composer and programmer has disappered
               | for the most part and I think the main reason is that
               | both hardware and software has become so affordable and
               | accessible. Back in the old days, you needed expensive
               | computers, synthesizers and tape machines and people who
               | could assist you with operating them. Today, anyone can
               | buy a laptop and learn Pd / Max / SuperCollider!
               | 
               | That being said, institutions like IRCAM still have their
               | place as they allow composers to work with technology
               | that is not easily accessible, e.g. large multi channel
               | systems or 360deg projections. They also do a lot of
               | research, too.
        
               | RossBencina wrote:
               | > Today, anyone can buy a laptop and learn Pd / Max /
               | SuperCollider!
               | 
               | And anyone can buy a laptop and contribute to the
               | development of Pd, SuperCollider, Chuck, et al.
               | 
               | Not sure how much overlap there is between those two
               | groups. Arguing against my earlier point: there still
               | seems to be a separation between music systems users and
               | music systems developers.
        
               | spacechild1 wrote:
               | > there still seems to be a separation between music
               | systems users and music systems developers.
               | 
               | That's true, but just like a pianist typically doesn't
               | need to build their own piano, computer musicians rarely
               | need to build their own DAWs or audio programming
               | languages. However, computer musicians do build their own
               | systems on top of Pd, SC, etc. and these can evolve into
               | libraries or whole applications. So the line between
               | computer musicians and audio application developers is
               | blurry.
               | 
               | That being said, I can tell for sure that only few
               | computer musicians end up contributing code to Pd, SC,
               | etc., simply because most of them have no experience in
               | other programming languages and are not really interested
               | in actual software development. Of course, there are
               | other important ways to contribute that are often
               | overlooked, like being active on forums, filing bug
               | reports, etc.
        
             | spacechild1 wrote:
             | > "The Theory and Technique of Electronic Music is a
             | uniquely complete source of information for the computer
             | synthesis of rich and interesting musical timbres."
             | 
             | It's really a great book, but it is far from "complete" as
             | it omits some very important synthesis techniques - most
             | notably granular synthesis and physical modeling! To be
             | fair, no single book would be able to cover the entire
             | spectrum of electronic sound synthesis. The second edition
             | of "The Computer Music Tutorial" by Curtis Roads
             | (https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262044912/the-computer-music-
             | tu...) comes close, but it is a massive book with over 1200
             | pages and took literally decades to write. (The second
             | edition has been published 27 years after the first
             | edition!)
             | 
             | What I find really cool about Miller's book is that all
             | examples are written in Pd so anyone can try them out and
             | experiment further.
        
         | gnulinux wrote:
         | Found the classically trained musician.
         | 
         | Any and all formal, mathematical, informal theory _about_ music
         | can be called music theory. Music theory is about modeling
         | music. Period. It does not matter if it 's about harmony,
         | rhythm, pitch, form, timbre, dynamics, or some other aspect of
         | music. Whether it helps with understanding music, composing
         | music, improvising music etc is a separate topic. Music theory
         | neither has to be about practical music making skills, nor it
         | has to be about music of a particular artistic tradition. It
         | just needs to present some model that can be a helpful tool in
         | some musical context. Maybe what you call "audio engineering"
         | is a specialized skill for some musical traditions, but for
         | musical traditions where the expressive content primarily comes
         | from timbre and synthesizers are common instruments, it _will_
         | be an essential music making skill.
        
           | Rochus wrote:
           | Nevertheless there is a huge difference between composing or
           | improvising a musical piece, and programming a filter or
           | oscillator.
           | 
           | Btw. "audio engineering" is what audio engineers are doing
           | (see e.g. https://aes2.org/), and yet another completely
           | different profession.
        
             | belshikun wrote:
             | <deleted>
        
               | xoac wrote:
               | Bad analogy since timbre has been part of the
               | compositional process for decades now.
        
               | Rochus wrote:
               | It's actually a good analogy. It doesn't mention "timbre"
               | and doesn't claim that timpre is not part of the
               | compositional process. A classical composer can indeed
               | specify timbre to a certain degree, and modern composers
               | created new kinds of scores which offered more
               | specification means for many features related to
               | "timbre", but there is still a difference between
               | composing music, playing music or building instruments in
               | formal musical education.
        
               | gnulinux wrote:
               | No you're simply wrong. This is how a "classical Western"
               | musician thinks of music, but this is not necessarily
               | what music is. Timbre is the main expressive content in
               | many cultures.
               | 
               | Check my comment here:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gnulinux#42368137
        
               | Rochus wrote:
               | Maybe there is a difference how formally trained
               | musicians and computer scientists see it. But actually I
               | don't see a contradition of your statement to what I've
               | written.
               | 
               | And don't forget that also Miller Puckette comes from the
               | Western musical tradition and developed important works
               | at IRCAM.
        
               | gnulinux wrote:
               | The difference is in the model. The same way you can
               | model mechanics with Newtonian mechanics, or statistical
               | mechanics, or quantum mechanics and each of them can be
               | useful in different scenarios, and irrelevant in others.
               | 
               | If you're making Western classical music in classicist,
               | romanticist or modernist style, the model of music you
               | have will carry a lot of information about harmony and
               | the application of harmonic techniques throughout the
               | piece. Given a core musical idea you can then apply
               | peripheral techniques (such as orchestration) to build a
               | full piece. E.g. when people study counterpoint, the
               | model of music originates from vertical harmony of notes
               | and when they can be used with respect to each other. The
               | assumption is that orchestration is something that'll be
               | separately developed "skinning" the composition. E.g. a
               | common technique in this tradition is composing a piece
               | for piano four hands and then orchestrating it (e.g.
               | Holst's "The Planets" symphony was composed this way).
               | 
               | However, this stops being a useful model once you step
               | into other musical traditions. In some cultures harmony
               | would be like how Western music treats orchestration,
               | peripheral to composition (like how extreme speed is
               | irrelevant to Newtonian mechanics because it was never
               | designed for near lightspeed motion). So you'd first
               | design timbres, and have an idea about how timbres
               | interact, timbres change, transform to each. You may have
               | a theory of counterpoint of timbres. Once you have this,
               | you can apply any standard "harmony skin" on the
               | composition and you have a piece. This is not even
               | restricted to non-Western music. If you look at the
               | postmodernism in Western music you'll find instances of
               | it. Easy example: a lot of people say that Philip Glass
               | "makes the same music" again and again, what is being
               | missed is the point he's trying to convey is that even if
               | you pick the exact same 4 chords you can still create
               | variation in music via other means. It just won't be
               | different from the traditional harmony-centric Western
               | musical model.
               | 
               | By the way, I studied CS and my full-time job is a
               | Software Engineer. So I doubt our disagreement comes from
               | my background in computer science.
        
               | Rochus wrote:
               | You seem to be hell-bent on a disagreement. Let's invest
               | our time better, for example, making music. Do you have
               | any musical works that can be listened to?
        
               | archagon wrote:
               | Which musical traditions use harmony as a "skin" in the
               | sense of designing a timbral skeleton before anything
               | else?
        
               | netdevphoenix wrote:
               | Isn't spectralism a thing in the modern classical world
               | since the 20th century?
        
               | sourcepluck wrote:
               | > So you'd first design timbres, and have an idea about
               | how timbres interact, timbres change, transform to each.
               | You may have a theory of counterpoint of timbres. Once
               | you have this, you can apply any standard "harmony skin"
               | on the composition and you have a piece
               | 
               | I asked the same question above, because I'm not sure if
               | you're alluding to the same thing here or something
               | different. May I have some examples of traditions which
               | do this, with something to go listen to?
        
               | netdevphoenix wrote:
               | How are you so knowledgeable about music theory and
               | classical music given that you didn't study music? Just
               | curious
        
               | gnulinux wrote:
               | This is exactly what I'm talking about. In Western music
               | timbre is akin to fonts. You have a composition for
               | piano, you play it, record it in MIDI, and reskin it with
               | some other timbre in studio. This is an extremely Western
               | way of looking at music. There are countless cultures
               | where timbre is the "main" part of the music where the
               | harmony and/or rhythm would be like fonts/reskins and
               | timbre is the main juice composers and improvisers try to
               | squeeze out. This type of distorted view on music is
               | rooted in 18th/19th century beliefs of non-Western art
               | being "primitive" art even though every single culture
               | that's known to humanity have a unique musical tradition.
               | This is an extremely anti-humanistic look at music.
        
           | HelloNurse wrote:
           | The traditional concept of _notes_ (and accessory ones like
           | scales and traditional notation) marks the boundary between
           | "traditional" music theory, that treats notes as the final
           | result (when you have notes written down, it's only a matter
           | of concretely playing them with a given instrument) and
           | theory of electronic synthesis, which treats notes as an
           | input, both optional and taken for granted, and audio signals
           | as the product.
        
             | Rochus wrote:
             | Also notation systems were further developed. Many famous
             | composers came up with their own scores for their
             | electronic or electro-acoustic compositions (see e.g.
             | Xenakis or Stockhausen).
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | Traditional music didn't even have the concept of notes in
             | the way modern music does. Of course as modern music was
             | developing for hundreds of years, perhaps thousands, and as
             | they did that they started taking common themes in
             | traditional music and calling them notes, but real
             | traditional musicians can't think of notes in the same was
             | as modern music does.
        
           | bowsamic wrote:
           | Huh? There's a huge amount of theory and writing about
           | electronic music that isn't just technical. See Mark Fell's
           | PhD thesis, for example.
           | 
           | Your comment seems to suggest the other person is ignorant
           | but really it just shows your ignorance of theory and writing
           | about experimental and electronic music. Not all music theory
           | is western classical.
           | 
           | I mean, how do you even consider Stockhausen and Xenakis from
           | your perspective?
        
             | gnulinux wrote:
             | You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Music theory from
             | other cultures are of course music theory as well. Each
             | composer can (and almost always _will_ ) have their own
             | idiosyncratic music theory as well. There is nothing
             | contradictory here.
             | 
             | Also I'm a composer with extensive knowledge of how to
             | make, orchestra, and mix acoustic or electronic music. This
             | thread has an extreme Western bias, just because something
             | is studied in a particular way from Western music theory
             | perspective, it doesn't mean it has to be that way.
             | 
             | Check my comment here:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gnulinux#42368137
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | That comment just seems like an overly disparaging and
               | ignorant take on this so called "western music", which
               | you claim is somehow anti human. Why would I care what
               | you think about electronic music when you think western
               | music is anti human?
        
               | gnulinux wrote:
               | I didn't say Western music is anti-human. Treating it as
               | the only possible form of music is.
        
           | sourcepluck wrote:
           | > musical traditions where the expressive content primarily
           | comes from timbre and synthesizers are common instruments
           | 
           | What traditions are you alluding to?
        
           | spacechild1 wrote:
           | I think there is just a certain a kind of ambiguity with the
           | word "Theory". Miller is really focused on the theory of
           | sound synthesis and does not really deal with composition or
           | aesthetic theory. People who are more interested in the
           | latter might enjoy "Composing Electronic Music: A New
           | Aesthetic " by Curtis Roads (https://global.oup.com/us/compan
           | ion.websites/9780195373240/b...).
        
           | empath75 wrote:
           | I think in order to have a book about music theory, there
           | should be some explanation as to how to make music for some
           | particular expressive purpose and not just the technical
           | details of how to make sounds. A guide to constructing a
           | piano is not music theory. I don't care if it's classical
           | music or techno or gamelan, or if the theory is formal or
           | traditional, if there's not some discussion of how and why to
           | express musical ideas, it's a technical manual and has very
           | little to do with music.
        
         | mcnamaratw wrote:
         | The book is from basically the "experimental music" school of
         | electronic music. The idea was/is that music will be completely
         | transmuted by electronics and computers, leaving traditional
         | music behind. Here "traditional music" means almost everything
         | people actually listen to, from orchestras to GarageBand
         | electronica to pop.
         | 
         | The claim may be a bit aspirational right now, but in theory
         | "electronic music" subsumes all music. Or enlarges music so
         | much that traditional musical ideas are special cases, not
         | necessarily relevant.
         | 
         | I'm trying to pitch this properly as a very cool concept. But I
         | no longer believe it will happen in my lifetime.
        
         | kat_rebelo wrote:
         | this assumes the position that the pre-eminence of the even-
         | tempered music based on european art music traditions and the
         | associated staff notation. this is extremely limiting when
         | considering the breadth of music that exists in the real world.
         | 
         | this is a theory of music, and while most pedagogy will
         | reinforce the special position of this system, it is not THE
         | theory of music. there are alternative systems of notation.
         | there are harmonic systems that incorporate tones that do not
         | exist in even tempered western scales. there are drumming
         | traditions that are taught and passed down by idiomatic
         | onomatopoeia.
         | 
         | this is especially apparent in electronic music where things
         | like step sequencers obviate the need to know any western music
         | notation to get an instrument to produce sound.
         | 
         | the western classical tradition is a pedagogically imposed
         | straight jacket. its important to keep a more open mind about
         | what music actually is.
        
       | piltdownman wrote:
       | Finally, I get to reference one of the few kickstarters that were
       | worth it.
       | 
       | "Since it's first edition in 1972, Electronic Music: Systems,
       | Techniques and Controls has been acknowledged as the definitive
       | text on modular synthesis"
       | 
       | For those who missed either of the kickstarter runs, there's a
       | reprint due via Schneider's Berlin.
       | 
       | https://schneidersladen.de/en/allen-strange-electronic-music...
        
       | chaosprint wrote:
       | One of the classics and must-reads in music technology.
       | 
       | I read it over and over again when I was building:
       | https://glicol.org/
       | 
       | One of the motivations for building Glicol is to quickly let more
       | people understand sound synthesis and music programming in the
       | browser.
       | 
       | also recommand:
       | 
       | Designing Audio Effect Plugins in C++ by Will Pirkle
       | 
       | Audio Effects Theory, Implementation and Application By Joshua
       | Reiss, Andrew McPherson
       | 
       | And all the books by JULIUS O. SMITH III
       | https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/Book_Series_Overview...
        
         | pomian wrote:
         | Your "on phone" or desktop synthesizer is amazing. Thanks for
         | that. I shared with my more musical synth type friends. Your
         | program reminds us, of how amazing music can be, with such a
         | simple backbone. (Just as in the case of a harmonica or
         | whistle, where a few notes, can invoke a range of emotions.) So
         | easy to see the results of ones own experimentation.
        
         | Rochus wrote:
         | Thanks for pointing to Glicol; this is amazing; looks like some
         | kind of marriage of Chuck and Faust; or to which other language
         | would you compare it? Just looked around a bit on the sites,
         | but didn't see a language specification. Can you provide a
         | hint, please.
         | 
         | Is this some kind of master or PhD work, or just a hobby
         | project?
        
           | chaosprint wrote:
           | it's one of my phd works. there was a conference paper but it
           | seems that the database of the whole conf was gone...
           | 
           | still you can find some philosophy here:
           | 
           | https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol
           | 
           | the glicol-cli is also a relatively special work:
           | 
           | https://github.com/glicol/glicol-cli
        
             | Rochus wrote:
             | Is there a link or copy of the conference paper or the PhD
             | thesis?
        
               | chaosprint wrote:
               | here:
               | 
               | https://webaudioconf.com/posts/2021_8/
               | 
               | the video is still there
        
               | Rochus wrote:
               | Thanks. I was able to download the paper from
               | https://webaudioconf.com/_data/papers/pdf/2021/2021_8.pdf
               | (the original link didn't work). Is the PhD thesis also
               | available somewhere?
               | 
               | What are your experiences with Rust? Was it worth it, or
               | would you rather consider another language for similar
               | projects?
        
               | chaosprint wrote:
               | Rust is in my opinion probably the best language so far
               | for audio/music infrastructure. So for me personally, I
               | would not consider another language for this type of
               | work. But I am definitely not saying that Rust is
               | suitable for any job.
        
               | Rochus wrote:
               | Interesting, thanks.
        
         | unsatchmo wrote:
         | Glicol looking super cool! Reminds me of ChucK
         | https://chuck.cs.princeton.edu
        
         | RossBencina wrote:
         | A few additional/alternative reading recommendations:
         | 
         | Proceedings of the International Conference on Digital Audio
         | Effects (DAFx). All open access at https://dafx.de/
         | 
         | Jon Dattorro's Effect Design papers:
         | 
         | https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~dattorro/EffectDesignPart1.pdf
         | 
         | https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~dattorro/EffectDesignPart2.pdf
         | 
         | https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~dattorro/EffectDesignPart3.pdf
         | 
         | Vadim Zavalishin - The Art Of VA Filter Design
         | https://www.native-instruments.com/fileadmin/ni_media/downlo...
         | 
         | Proceedings of the International Computer Music Conference
         | (open access) https://quod.lib.umich.edu/i/icmc/
         | 
         | Andy Farnell, "Designing Sound"
         | 
         | A standard introductory DSP textbook such as Ifeachor and
         | Jervis, Orfanidis, Oppenheim and Schafer.
         | 
         | "The Computer Music Tutorial" and "Microsound" by Curtis Roads
         | 
         | Audio Anecdotes book series
         | 
         | "Music, Cognition and Computerised Sound", edited by Perry Cook
         | 
         | what am I missing?
        
           | nonrandomstring wrote:
           | Boulanger and Lazzarini "The Audio Programming Book" - great
           | if you want to start working straight away in C
           | 
           | Boulanger - "The Csound Book" (another classic language I
           | still use today)
           | 
           | Greenbaum and Barzel - "Audio Anecdotes". A fascinating
           | series of 3 volumes with all sorts of wisdom on FX design,
           | studio systems and composition
           | 
           | Wilson, Cottle and Collins - "The Supercollider Book". In the
           | style of The Csound Book, but with SC.
           | 
           | Loy - "Musicmathics". A rare and much under-rated two volume
           | set on the equations behind audio DSP
           | 
           | Bilbao - "Numerical Sound Synthesis". A hard but rewarding
           | journey to understanding audio physics as linear diff systems
           | and implementing them efficiently in C, Goes well with Perry
           | Cook's stuff.
           | 
           | Benson - "Music a mathematical offering" Very unusual book
           | that analyses many subjects in music physics. Equations but
           | no code.
           | 
           | Miranda "Computer Sound Design". More about music synthesis
           | than "sound design" imho, but has some interesting fringe
           | methods like cellular autonoma and genetic algorithms.
        
             | ofalkaed wrote:
             | >Boulanger - "The Csound Book"
             | 
             | Probably the gold standard for such books, wish all the
             | audio DSLs had a book of such quality. Between it and The
             | Computer Music Tutorial Csound is ahead of the rest when it
             | comes to books.
             | 
             | Edit: Was thinking The Computer Music Tutorial was filled
             | with Csound examples but on second thought I don't think it
             | actually is. Been awhile since I last browsed it.
        
               | shadowerm wrote:
               | No, The Computer Music Tutorial doesn't have any code as
               | far as I remember. I know there is a second edition but
               | not sure what is new in there.
               | 
               | The Csound book is so great though. It would be nice if
               | the orc/sco on the CD that came with it were available. I
               | have the book still but the CD is long gone and so is
               | owning a CD rom drive.
               | 
               | I just came back to csound recently and I think it has
               | taken me about 25 years to actually like the sco. If one
               | is use to a piano roll/DAW, the sco seems utterly
               | ridiculous.
               | 
               | The csound manual now though actually has good working
               | examples too. If I remember, that was not the case when
               | the csound book came out and part of what made it so
               | great too.
        
               | ofalkaed wrote:
               | >I have the book still but the CD is long gone and so is
               | owning a CD rom drive.
               | 
               | https://github.com/SamKomesarook/The-Csound-Book
        
               | shadowerm wrote:
               | Awesome. The book is such a bargain used then on Amazon
               | with this.
        
           | spacechild1 wrote:
           | > "The Computer Music Tutorial" and "Microsound" by Curtis
           | Roads
           | 
           | It's worth noting that the second edition has been just
           | released last year - 27 years after the first edition! It's a
           | _massive_ book: https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262044912/the-
           | computer-music-tu...
        
             | ofalkaed wrote:
             | Do you think it is worth upgrading from the first edition?
             | Does it update much of the old information? The new
             | chapters alone are not really enough to sell me on buying,
             | at least not until my first edition falls apart.
        
               | spacechild1 wrote:
               | > Does it update much of the old information?
               | 
               | There is lots of information and even whole chapters that
               | couldn't have been possibly written in 1996, but I
               | haven't read the first edition so I can't really compare
               | in detail.
        
           | wormius wrote:
           | FM Theory and Applications By Dr John Chowning and David
           | Bristow https://www.burnkit2600.com/manuals/fm_theory_and_app
           | licatio...
           | 
           | Mostly focused on FM as applied by the DX7 IIRC. But really
           | good overview of how FM works since it's the guy who invented
           | it.
        
         | changexd wrote:
         | glicol is super super cool, thanks for sharing!
        
       | _spduchamp wrote:
       | There are so many resources around timbrel construction and
       | manipulation, but never enough about the rhythmic domain. This
       | book being another example.
       | 
       | I've read Godfried Toussaint's book, and looking for more
       | recommendations in this area.
       | 
       | I've been tinkering with a cybernetic folk drumming project, and
       | trying to create rhythms using oscillators, with beats triggered
       | at zero-crossings, so I can build and manipulated patterns in
       | real-time. (demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVlgPoTpL94)
       | Results have been interesting, but perhaps not "good" in
       | Toussaint's sense. I'm hoping to find a model that works better.
       | Advice and pointers appreciated.
        
         | qmmmur wrote:
         | Sounds like you might be interested in Mark Fell?
        
           | _spduchamp wrote:
           | Yup.
        
         | chaosprint wrote:
         | McLean, Alex, Giovanni Fanfani, and Ellen Harlizius-Kluck.
         | "Cyclic patterns of movement across weaving, epiploke and live
         | coding." Dancecult: Journal of Electronic Dance Music Culture
         | 10.1 (2018).
         | 
         | McLean, Alex. "Algorithmic Pattern." NIME. 2020.
        
         | ofalkaed wrote:
         | Creating Rhythms by Hollos and Hollos. I am not much of a fan
         | of it but my expectations were high, the person who recommended
         | it to me made it out to be exactly what I was looking for and
         | it was not at all what I was looking for. It primarily focuses
         | on things of Euclidean Rhythms ilk, simple to execute but can
         | be quite effective. Despite not being what I was after I think
         | I got my $10 worth.
        
           | _spduchamp wrote:
           | I too bought this book and was somewhat disappointed. Some of
           | the algorithms seems too contrived and specific. (All the
           | code is here:
           | https://abrazol.com/books/rhythm1/software.html)
           | 
           | I guess my wish would be a companion to Geometry of Musical
           | Rhythm with lots implementations of code to demonstrate
           | concepts. Euclidean Rhythm implementations seem to be
           | everywhere, but there is SO MUCH MORE to cover.
           | 
           | Still, I'm kind of stuck on this idea that there may be a way
           | to map the discrete mathematics of this rhythm stuff into a
           | continuous mathematics for more natural and fluid rhythmic
           | expression. It's just a theory and a few experiments so far.
        
         | tpm wrote:
         | One thing that could be great for experiments is Eurorack
         | modules. There are I feel about thousand modules for drum
         | patterns - Euclidean (like https://modulargrid.net/e/vpme-de-
         | euclidean-circles-v2- ), but also plenty others, starting from
         | Mutable Instrument Grids (https://modulargrid.net/e/mutable-
         | instruments-grids). I think it's a much faster way to hands-on
         | experiment than writing code. Also with Eurorack the only
         | interface between modules is analog voltage which means clock,
         | triggers, pulses, low frequency and audio frequency can be
         | freely mixed (a common way to abuse this is to generate lower
         | frequency audio using clock dividers, /2 from 800Hz audio gives
         | you 400Hz square wave etc).
         | 
         | Ah and most of that can be also explored without a physical
         | rack using VCVRack.
        
       | vunderba wrote:
       | If anyone's interested in a more hands-on approach towards
       | learning how to build patches from basic oscillators, etc., I can
       | highly recommend Syntorial.
       | 
       | https://www.syntorial.com
        
         | brudgers wrote:
         | I recommend a Behringer 2600. The Arp 2600 was designed to
         | facilitate learning synthesis.
         | 
         | And hardware is a useful abstraction.
        
           | chaosprint wrote:
           | I would choose Korg instead. Support originality.
        
             | brudgers wrote:
             | Korg is not Arp. It paid a license fee for fifty year old
             | brand named after a dead man.
             | 
             | If the Korg is right for you, that's cool with me. My B2600
             | sits on my desk. I don't need a rolling case and I already
             | have monitors for when I am not using headphones.
             | 
             | In my opinion, Behringer designed a new more capable
             | instrument and Korg made the 2600 Mini a less capable one
             | by intent (missing everything that was on Arp's keyboards)
             | to avoid cannibalizing sales of the premium full size
             | version.
             | 
             | And, the Korg has a copy of the Moog ladder filter. [1]
             | Lots of guitars are shaped like Stratocasters and
             | Telecasters. Synthesizers.com sells knockoffs of Moog
             | modules. Your DAW probably has a Rhodes VST or two.
             | 
             | [1] When Alan R Perlman built the first 2600's for Tonus
             | (before changing the name of his company to "Arp"), he
             | copied Bob Moog's ladder filter. Moog sued for patent
             | infringement. Perlman had to change the filter and that's
             | what most original 2600's have.
        
       | aanet wrote:
       | What a fantastic thread! Thanks for all the comments + resources.
       | <3 <3
        
       | aanet wrote:
       | Apart from the Books quoted below (thanks!!) - are there video
       | resources / tutorials / online courses that knowledgeable folks
       | would recommend?
       | 
       | Particularly on thery + praxis of state of the art?
       | 
       | Many Thanks!!
        
         | RossBencina wrote:
         | Re Theory and Praxis, Thor Magnusson's recent books come to
         | mind:
         | 
         | https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/sonic-writing-9781501313868/
         | 
         | https://livecodingbook.toplap.org/
        
           | aanet wrote:
           | Thank you THANK YOU!! This is fantastic, esp. the Live
           | Coding. I was looking for something like this. Immediately
           | downloaded it. Gonna check Thor Magnusson book as well.
           | 
           | <3
        
       | smoyer wrote:
       | I have this book and used the ideas from it to create a synth
       | using 12 GI AY-3-8910 chips for a total of 36 voices. Might have
       | been 25-30 years ago.
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Instrument_AY-3-8910
        
       | aa-jv wrote:
       | This was a classic, must-read book back in the day .. but these
       | days, I think that Loopops Incomplete Guide of Electronic Music
       | Ideas, Tips and Tricks is a better investment of ones time. Its
       | just more broadly applicable and far more dense in terms of
       | tooling and methodology.
       | 
       | https://www.docdroid.net/3K4UL8i/loopop-toc-pdf
       | 
       | In general, screeds documenting the theory and technique of
       | electronic music would be better served if their authors didn't
       | orient the works around a particular tool or method - such as
       | Puredata, in this case. Even those PD is indeed an extremely
       | powerful tool, its not really all-encompassing when it comes to
       | making Electronic Music - its a digital tool, and electronic
       | music covers the gamut from analog to digital and beyond...
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | > _Finally, a realizable filter, whose frequency response is
       | always a continuous function of frequency, must have a frequency
       | band over which the gain drops from the passband gain to the
       | stopband gain; this is called the transition band. The thinner
       | this band can be made, the more nearly ideal the filter._
       | 
       | Perhaps ideal from some mathematical view, but musically, a brick
       | wall filter could sound like shit where a lower order filter
       | would be fine, because in that situation, you need a more nuanced
       | blend of the range of frequencies than taking everything at 100%
       | amplitude below the wall, and 0% above.
        
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