[HN Gopher] Software developer arrested in connection with murde...
___________________________________________________________________
Software developer arrested in connection with murder of healthcare
executive
Author : 1vuio0pswjnm7
Score : 91 points
Date : 2024-12-09 21:17 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| hilux wrote:
| One of us, one of us!
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Alternatively: [...] You may look like we
| do, talk like we do But you know how it is
| [Chorus] You're not one of us, not one of us No,
| you're not one of us Not one of us, not one of us
| No, you're not one of us
|
| "Not one of us" by Peter Gabriel
|
| https://genius.com/Peter-gabriel-not-one-of-us-lyrics
| Joeboy wrote:
| You were, I felt, robbing me of my rightful chances
| My picture clear, everything seemed so easy And
| so I dealt you the blow, one of us had to go Now it's
| different, I want you to know
|
| "One of Us" by Abba
| tzs wrote:
| Gabba gabba, we accept you, we accept you, one of us
| Gabba gabba, we accept you, we accept you, one of us
|
| From "Pinhead" by the Ramones, inspired by the 1932 film
| "Freaks".
| lawlessone wrote:
| >Police revealed that finding the 26-year-old was a complete
| surprise, and that they did not have his name on a list of
| suspects prior to today
|
| So when they said they knew who he was yesterday it was a lie.
| BryantD wrote:
| Eric Adams doesn't have a strong reality filter, and it's
| usually good to cross-check things he says, especially if he's
| the only person saying them. I don't think he consciously makes
| things up, he just tends to gravitate towards saying things
| that sound good in the moment.
|
| Or, if we're being really charitable, they were chasing the
| wrong guy.
| byteknight wrote:
| All you did was make the phrase "makes things up" more
| palatable. It still means the same thing. He lies.
| BryantD wrote:
| I like understanding why people are making things up.
|
| Edit: sorry, I was a bit snarky there and I shouldn't have
| been. I was in fact splitting a hair there; it's a useful
| one for me but it's far from obligatory.
| lazyeye wrote:
| What lies has Eric Adams said?
| ceejayoz wrote:
| He's currently indicted for criminal fraud.
| https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/09/25/nyregion/eric-
| adams-...
| astrange wrote:
| He lies constantly. Like, he lives in New Jersey and
| pretends to live in NYC. He pretends to be a vegan.
|
| Also continually uses strange phrases in speeches that he
| made up, like "all your haters will be waiters when you
| sit down at the table of success", or saying "New York
| City is the Dublin/Istanbul/Port au Prince of America"
| whenever he's talking to an a cultural group.
| tacticalturtle wrote:
| It was specifically Eric Adams who sort of implied that - but
| it was a bit of a cagey response, and NYPD later stated that
| day they had no ID:
|
| https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5028239-mayor-adams-sa...
|
| Given Adam's past year, there was never a reason to take what
| he says at face value.
| gowld wrote:
| I don't think that's a fair characterization.
|
| > When asked by a reporter if police had the suspect's name,
| Adams said, "We don't want to release that now. If you do,
| you're basically giving a tip to the person we are fine with
| seeking, and we do not want to give him an upper hand at all.
| Let him continue to believe he can hide behind a mask."
|
| Grammatical flub aside ("the person we are fine with
| seeking"), he is just saying that he doesn't want to say
| anything about the info being requested. The police release
| information that they have decided is in their interest to
| release. Everything else is classified confidential by
| default.
| d0mine wrote:
| "Let him continue to believe he can hide behind a mask"
| implies that he can't hide and they know his name. A lie in
| other words.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| That's a common tactic to try and get a suspect to turn
| themselves in.
|
| Sometimes it works. (Most suspects turn themselves in for
| crimes they've committed. It's actually the exception when
| police need to go out to arrest a criminal suspect.)
| gowld wrote:
| That's when the suspect's identity is known, and the suspect
| would rather face a bail hearing then try to keep hiding.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| Sure, for nonviolent criminal offenses. It helps that
| accepting responsibility for one's actions (as demonstrated
| by turning oneself in) generally results in significantly
| reduced sentencing.
|
| For violent offenses, and especially for high-profile
| murder cases, they don't give the suspect the option of
| turning themselves in.
| asdefghyk wrote:
| RE "....when they said they knew who he was yesterday it was a
| lie....."
|
| Was an obvious lie ...was my first reaction.
|
| If they did know the name - it could have been used to retrieve
| numerous photos - and other evidence. That said the accused
| person left several of their online profiles online . even a
| facebook profile !!!
| avalys wrote:
| > Police revealed that finding the 26-year-old was a complete
| surprise, and that they did not have his name on a list of
| suspects prior to today.
|
| "I'd rather be lucky than good!" Impressive that they do seem to
| have found the right guy, based on the documents in his
| possession, and this was apparently due solely to the one
| photograph of his face that the police found and released.
|
| I also note that this guy apparently had back surgery a few
| months ago.
| qzw wrote:
| I wonder if the McDonald's employee really recognized him from
| those couple of off-angle photos or if Mr. Mangione himself
| initiated the action in order to let someone "deserving"
| collect the reward. It seems to me that he wanted to be caught,
| and the amount of evidence that he was carrying on him is
| obviously meant to establish his identity beyond any doubt. The
| amount of meticulous planning he undertook for the actual
| shooting contrasts with the trail of evidence that he kept
| dropping along the way. He would've basically never been found
| if he had just worn a pair of sunglasses.
| xnx wrote:
| https://github.com/lnmangione
| lawlessone wrote:
| Lol this has an extra badge it didn't have when i seen it an
| hour ago.
| avalys wrote:
| You know, all you people who are cheering this guy on - have you
| ever worked for a company that had customers? Have you ever
| learned that some of those customers are unhappy? Have you ever
| decided that some of those unhappy customers were unreasonable,
| or even totally wrong, given all the facts?
|
| How would you feel if one of those unhappy customers showed up at
| your home and shot you dead?
|
| If your reaction is "Oh, but I'm not the CEO!" you're deluding
| yourself (at best).
| ausbah wrote:
| false equivalence. insurance companies are in the business of
| denying coverage that could improve treatment, quality of life,
| and sometimes even someone's life just to increase the bottom
| line. an dissatisfied saas cx isn't the same.
| avalys wrote:
| I guess "I work only on useless stuff that no one cares much
| about" is a valid response, sure.
| wpm wrote:
| I work on shit that doesn't deny people life saving
| coverage.
| anonymousab wrote:
| There is a wide variety of jobs between "try to maximize
| denials and ensure maximal suffering and customer death as
| often as possible" American medical insurance company CEO,
| and useless trash job worker.
|
| Many of those jobs even include rich CEOs of billion dollar
| insurance companies in industries that manage to actually
| fulfill a (comparatively) reasonable amount of customer
| claims.
| olddustytrail wrote:
| It's a hell of a lot better than "people care about what I
| do because I ruin their lives" now isn't it?
| aeonik wrote:
| Someone could just as easily saying tech workers are
| destroying the world.
|
| Something along the lines of how technology dehumanizes and
| displaces us.
|
| That person could then move to a shack in Montana and start
| mailing bombs to the engineers and tech workers.
| tartoran wrote:
| Well, tech workers aren't directly to blame but they're
| surely enabling bigger men to do their dirty deeds.
|
| Time to reflect how your work is affecting the world,
| folks. But even if you take action and quit now it's likely
| they'll find other guns to hire. If you want to make a
| difference you have to do a lot more than that.
| crawfordcomeaux wrote:
| And that person could be found to be making accurate
| assessments. What of it?
|
| We are ALL complicit in the systems behind all this when we
| are the ones building and maintaining them.
|
| Myself included.
|
| The first step to ethical responsibility is honestly
| acknowledging what I've been taught to do and have done
| without unlearning those things. Second step is to consent
| to unlearning that and learning a different way that
| addresses all the issues. Third step is actually doing the
| unlearning/learning.
| add-sub-mul-div wrote:
| It's true that AI will be a tool used to harm people in a
| broad set of use cases, but the tools are too far removed
| from their respective applications in people's minds.
| People directly deal with health insurance companies, not
| the software vendors that sell the tools with sanitized
| descriptions.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| It feels dishonest to imply that software engineers and
| tech workers, broadly, are comparable to major USA
| healthcare CEOs in their perceived devilhood status on
| average. Major social media and tech giant CEOs, sure, but
| even then I think they might still be a little lower on the
| list.
|
| And if you're not doing that, then your point doesn't seem
| to make sense in the context of the thread.
| aeonik wrote:
| "Someone" could make the comparison. (I personally don't,
| it's all too complicated for me)
|
| Trying to highlight different perspectives people can
| have, and to challenge readers to reflect on the use of
| violence.
|
| Pick any arbitrary group of people, and you can find
| another group that thinks they are destroying the world.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski
|
| All that being said, obviously there's no doubt that the
| healthcare system is pretty messed up.
| llamaimperative wrote:
| I'm not cheering this guy on but you're not paying attention if
| you think people's complaints about health insurance in general
| _and UHG in particular_ amount to "unhappy customers."
|
| The entire system is an ineffective accountability sink that is
| highly vulnerable to vertical mergers that capture _incredible_
| amounts of money from our society while providing _empirically
| subpar_ results -- results on a dimension that matter quite a
| lot to people (the health and wellbeing of their loved ones)
|
| Go do some Googling on the antitrust suits against the
| different combinations of UnitedHealthcare, Optum, and OptumRx.
| avalys wrote:
| The people that should be blamed are the politicians that
| created this mess in the first place, not the people
| administering the broken system that they can't change
| unilaterally.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| > they can't change unilaterally.
|
| well that shows why you're not aligned with those out there
| who are frustrated with Healthcare. We weaken universal
| healthcare almost the moment the administration shifts. It
| may as well be unilateral.
| hilux wrote:
| UnitedHealthcare is pretty well-established to be much
| worse than average within the industry. This is not new
| news.
| tartoran wrote:
| The people administering these broken systems who are being
| paid huge salaries are totally innocent, they had no other
| alternative, they wanted regular salaries and to do good to
| their customers but were forced into these jobs.
|
| /s
|
| #FORCED_CEO_LABOR_HAS_DIRE_CONSEQUENCES
| a12k wrote:
| People do blame the politicians, but they rightly also
| blame anyone who has a hand in and nexus to furthering the
| rotten system. CEOs, AI algorithms people who write
| algorithms to deny coverage, software developers who ship
| it to production, etc are all culpable to some degree. The
| bigger the nexus, the more the culpability.
|
| Night janitor? Probably not enough nexus to be blamed. The
| Tech Lead on the "Deny Healthcare for Corporate Profits"
| initiative? Probably as culpable as the CEO.
| mupuff1234 wrote:
| Execs of companies beyond a certain size are part of the
| political elite - in fact they probably have more political
| strength then the average politician.
| jjulius wrote:
| No, it's not that black-and-white. The politicians are to
| blame, as are the corporations and business interests who
| continue to take advantage of the system for financial
| gain, as opposed to working to fix it from within.
| acdha wrote:
| The system was created at their behest specifically not to
| reduce their profitability. If you didn't follow the debate
| 15 years ago, the ACA was the compromise adopted after the
| healthcare industry plowed money into advertisements,
| lobbying, and astroturf to kill the idea of a public
| option. The concept traces back to the Heritage
| Foundation's proposal offered after the healthcare industry
| killed the Clinton healthcare plan in 1993, but the
| Republicans immediately switched to opposing that as soon
| as it had any chance of passing because literal billions
| were on the line as soon as insurers couldn't drop the most
| expensive customers from their pools.
| avalys wrote:
| What role did the CEO who was killed play in that debate
| 15 years ago?
|
| Why are you still shifting blame from the politicians who
| created this system? They didn't have to listen to the
| healthcare industry. They are accountable to the public.
| They got voted into office and they put this system in
| place. Of course the healthcare CEOs are going to argue
| in their own interest - but they don't call the shots
| here! The politicians do.
| acdha wrote:
| A better question would be why you're trying so hard to
| exonerate some of the richest and most powerful people in
| the country. Trying to blame nebulous politicians without
| thinking about how they got elected or what they were
| asked to do legislatively, or how much public opinion is
| shaped by mass communications and the status quo, feels
| like a joke about a physicist trying to say another field
| shouldn't exist because their "assume a perfectly
| spherical cow" thought exercise wasn't too complicated.
| avalys wrote:
| The guy who was killed, with annual compensation of $10M,
| is one of the richest and most powerful people in the
| country? There are FAANG ICs making more than that.
| astrange wrote:
| The shooter is from one of the richest families in
| Maryland and is richer than the guy he shot. His cousin
| is a state congressman.
| Epa095 wrote:
| If you are willing to shift the blame from the CEOs, why
| stop by shifting it one level? Why not shift it all the
| way to the top, to the voters who voted in the
| politicians?
|
| The health insurance industry is a modern example of the
| banality of evil, and there is enough blame to go around.
| astrange wrote:
| The ACA caps health insurers' profits. When you say "the
| healthcare industry", you're confusing insurers and
| providers, who are not allied.
|
| /Doctors/ killed the public option because it would save
| money by lowering their salaries. American healthcare is
| expensive because of providers.
|
| (Another example is that we banned opening new hospitals
| unless nearby competing hospitals approve of it. This is
| called "certificate of need".)
| WD-42 wrote:
| The execs of these companies aren't just hapless
| administrators plodding along in a broken system of someone
| else's design. They very clearly to everything they can to
| extract as much value as they can from the situation.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| The idea that a business is _morally blameless_ to act in
| any way as long as it A. improves profit, and B. is within
| the law; and that everybody must limit themselves to voting
| with their patronage and are somehow wrong to e.g. voice
| criticism; is obviously, intuitively false.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| Who do you think gave the politicians money to vote for
| keeping the status quo?
| yunohn wrote:
| In what universe are the politicians and healthcare
| companies not in cahoots? Like the rest of our industries?
| asdefghyk wrote:
| RE ... that some of those customers are unhappy....
|
| Articales show they had lots of unhappy customers.... Also when
| employes get income of several million a year seems excessive.
| The CEOS income was around $50,000 a business DAY , probably
| more that lots people earn in a year. Its reported these
| customers died/ went bankrupt as a result of insurance company
| refusals . ( Ive always thought needs to be much stronger
| government laws around documentation so people aware of what is
| covered and what is not, could have reduced the number of
| unhappy customers )
| avalys wrote:
| The CEO who was killed was paid about $0.20 per patient last
| year.
|
| Do you think those patients would have been better off with
| that $0.20 still in their pocket, and a less qualified CEO
| running the company?
| viccis wrote:
| >How would you feel if one of those unhappy customers showed up
| at your home and shot you dead?
|
| If I were the face of a company using junk AI and other
| obstruction methods to achieve industry leading denial rates to
| potentially life saving healthcare, all to build up my
| company's coffers, I would feel pretty unsurprised.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| OK, but none of _my_ customers die because I said no to a liver
| transplant.
| avalys wrote:
| Do you dream of one day working on important problems and
| making hard decisions with no right answer?
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Yes. I _don 't_ dream of working on ways to deny needed
| medical coverage to pad my pockets.
|
| https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/health/liver-transplant-
| mom-e... has a nice illustrative example of how silly the
| system UnitedHealthcare and others set up can get.
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/05/nyregion/delay-deny-
| defen...
|
| > Earlier this year, a Senate committee investigated
| Medicare Advantage plans denying nursing care to patients
| who were recovering from falls and strokes. It concluded
| that three major companies -- UnitedHealthcare, Humana and
| CVS, which owns Aetna -- were intentionally denying claims
| for this expensive care to increase profits.
| UnitedHealthcare, the report noted, denied requests for
| such nursing stays three times more often than it did for
| other services. (Humana had an even higher figure, denying
| at a rate 16 times higher.)
|
| https://www.propublica.org/article/unitedhealth-
| healthcare-i...
|
| > As United reviewed McNaughton's treatment, he and his
| family were often in the dark about what was happening or
| their rights. Meanwhile, United employees misrepresented
| critical findings and ignored warnings from doctors about
| the risks of altering McNaughton's drug plan.
|
| > At one point, court records show, United inaccurately
| reported to Penn State and the family that McNaughton's
| doctor had agreed to lower the doses of his medication.
| Another time, a doctor paid by United concluded that
| denying payments for McNaughton's treatment could put his
| health at risk, but the company buried his report and did
| not consider its findings. The insurer did, however,
| consider a report submitted by a company doctor who rubber-
| stamped the recommendation of a United nurse to reject
| paying for the treatment.
| anonymousab wrote:
| There are right answers though. Certainly far more "right"
| than what they currently do.
|
| They can, in fact, have their billions of profits while not
| putting their customers in the grave. It's just slightly
| less profit than they currently get.
|
| Squeezing the blood from the stone here is entirely a
| choice.
| avalys wrote:
| How much profit do you think they make, exactly?
|
| How much do you think they should be entitled to make?
|
| If the answer is zero, why would anyone invest in a
| company that can't make money?
|
| If the answer is that healthcare should be run by the
| government, why are you blaming the CEO instead of
| politicians?
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Who do you think lobbies those politicians?
| avalys wrote:
| Are the politicians not accountable for the decisions
| they make?
|
| Who has a greater moral accountability to the public -
| politicians or corporate CEOs?
| patmcc wrote:
| A lot of this data is open: https://www.kff.org/private-
| insurance/state-indicator/averag...
|
| That shows the _gross margin_ of insurance companies
| (based on premiums vs paid claims). Note that it 's
| negative in some states, and also that's _gross margin_ -
| so _all_ the insurance companies ' costs need to be paid
| out of that.
|
| They are not making as much profit as you think they are.
| WD-42 wrote:
| Is optimizing denial of service to increase profits what
| you would consider an "important problem" with no right
| answer?
| avalys wrote:
| I think reducing healthcare costs in the US is an
| important problem with no right answers, and this
| sometimes involves denying care that people think they
| need.
| lawlessone wrote:
| >with no right answer?
|
| When the options are deny healthcare to someone that has
| paid you for healthcare and give them the healthcare, it's
| not morally grey.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| "No right answer" is a very common weasel phrase -
| technically correct sometimes, but clearly some answers are
| better than others.
| patmcc wrote:
| We don't have enough livers for every transplant case;
| someone needs to say no to some of them. If you think that's
| _necessarily_ an evil act, you need to think harder.
|
| The issue I see with all this is the anger isn't because this
| CEO denied claims that should have been accepted (that would
| be reasonable anger), it's that they denied claims _at all_.
| How do people expect insurance to work? An insurance company
| that never denies claims doesn 't stay in business.
|
| (And obviously, yes, I think the US healthcare system is
| lousy. But in the system you have now, you have insurance
| companies, and they need to operate in the real world.)
| ceejayoz wrote:
| > We don't have enough livers for every transplant case;
| someone needs to say no to some of them.
|
| That'll be the people (UNOS) managing the transplant list,
| which is sorted _already_ sorted by severity and chance of
| surviving the procedure.
|
| https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/health/liver-transplant-
| mom-e...
|
| > More than 100 doctors at three of the nation's top
| medical centers have weighed in on her case, which is
| complex and exceedingly rare. Their conclusion: The only
| way to save Erika's life is to give her a new liver.
|
| > After weeks of evaluation at the Cleveland Clinic in
| December and January, Erika finally got her big break.
|
| > On February 2, doctors there approved putting her on the
| wait list for a liver transplant.
|
| > But Erika hit an immediate wall. Her insurer,
| UnitedHealthcare, denied coverage for the transplant,
| saying it would not be a "promising treatment." She
| appealed and was rejected again.
| patmcc wrote:
| Did you even read the article you posted?
|
| 1. It's explicitly stated, including by the doctor
| involved, that this is a "groundbreaking" (read:
| experimental) procedure, having been performed exactly
| twice in the US _this century_.
|
| 2. The doctor even says "he can somewhat understand the
| insurance company's initial reluctance at coverage".
|
| 3. The insurance company denied it because "unproven
| health services is not a covered benefit" - this is
| expected, the insurance company can't just take a single
| doctor's word that "it'll totally work, I'm super good at
| this surgery".
|
| 4. The insurance company ended up approving her claim.
|
| And then, from a different article -
| https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/portland-mom-who-
| sur...
|
| 5. UNOS actually downgraded her score on their list
| (highlighting that, unfortunately, this was not a
| 'promising treatment').
|
| 6. She died during the liver transplant operation.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Did _you_ even read the article you posted?
|
| > Erika had waited more than a year for a liver due to
| insurance issues.
|
| Yes, if you delay long enough, chances of survival go way
| down.
|
| (There's a reason "delay" was one of the three words on
| the bullet casings, I suspect.)
| patmcc wrote:
| Yah, that's a mistake (or lie) by the article; from your
| CNN article, she was initially put on the transplant list
| on Feb 2, and ended up approved by mid-May (it's after
| May 2, but before Mother's Day, on May 13).
|
| She was delayed by "insurance issues" by _at most_ 3
| months.
|
| She waited more than a year for a liver because she
| wasn't a good candidate for a liver transplant.
| avalys wrote:
| This is such a great representative example in this
| debate.
| anonymousab wrote:
| The countless needlessly dead "customers" aren't really happy
| or unhappy anymore. They're dead.
|
| Wanting to not be dead or miserable in exchange for a company
| fulfilling their obligations and maybe having billions in
| profit instead of billions in profit +1 is far from
| 'unreasonable'.
|
| This CEO was not some faceless cog with no agency. He was
| someone with real power and control that willingly made
| decisions that actively severely and often fatally harmed his
| customers.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| No one here is cheering this person on (as of this posting). Or
| at least those comments were removed in record time.
|
| >If your reaction is "Oh, but I'm not the CEO!" you're deluding
| yourself (at best).
|
| I don't have much of an IRL online presence, so it'd be a
| helluva a lot harder to plan a retaliation against me than a
| public figure.
|
| But yes, I live in downtown L.A. It would not be hard at all
| for me to piss the wrong person off, or simply be in the wrong
| place at the wrong time.
| hilux wrote:
| > Have you ever decided that some of those unhappy customers
| were unreasonable, or even totally wrong, given all the facts?
|
| Yes. Happens all the time.
|
| AND ... you seem to be implying that all companies are
| [ethically, morally, practically] the same.
|
| Without taking a position on the shooting, I will tell you
| this: all companies are not the same. And this particular
| company seems to be one of the worst, and that too in an arena
| that directly impacts people's literal lives.
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| I've never been CEO of a company that directly profited off of
| human misery.
| lawlessone wrote:
| >have you ever worked for a company that had customers?
|
| Yeah nothing I worked for bankrupted people because they used
| an out of network surgeon though.
|
| Me refusing to accept a return on some golf shoes without a
| receipt is not morally equivalent.
|
| I feel safe in that regard.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| If I was the CEO of a company and I made repeated conscious
| choices to deliberately deny people a life-saving service they
| paid for so I could get a slightly higher obscenely large
| bonus, I'd expect people to try and extract revenge.
|
| UHC deliberately denied coverage to millions of people, at
| least hundreds of whom died as a result. Right now experts are
| saying that 7 out of 10 juries wouldn't vote to convict Luigi,
| and based on conversations I've had with people across the
| political spectrum I'd say the only jury that would convict
| Luigi is one made up entirely of healthcare executives.
|
| I'm just surprised that this didn't happen sooner.
| naveen99 wrote:
| I am skeptical that unh is denying more than other insurers.
| Since half their business is physician practices, they
| actually make more money treating the patients. Also they
| have more physicians on staff making decisions than
| competition, and I would rather doctors are more involved in
| those decisions than mba's. in fact they are probably too
| effective, and the competition is running scared looking for
| antitrust protection.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/12/05/data/unitedhealthcar
| e...
|
| > The company dismissed about one in every three claims in
| 2023 -- the most of any major insurer. That's twice the
| industry average of 16 percent, according to data from
| ValuePenguin, a consumer research site owned by LendingTree
| that specializes in insurance. The group's analysis is
| based on in-network claims data from the Centers for
| Medicare & Medicaid Services.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| Check out the discovery on this barely-related lawsuit that
| revealed that they had specifically adopted a policy of
| denying covered treatment to addicts because they
| determined that that group was particularly unlikely to
| follow through with an appeal.
|
| https://www.welcometohellworld.com/this-is-the-most-
| ghoulish...
|
| The article is biased, as you should also be in the face of
| evil, but you can follow the links through and eventually
| get to the materials as presented in court if you're
| motivated.
| potsandpans wrote:
| What level of cognitive dissonance is required to refer to
| patients denied critical care as "unhappy customers"?
|
| To argue in good faith, I have to assume that you believe what
| you've written. How should one interpret it? Be explicit.
| avalys wrote:
| Do you think that a healthcare system should always give
| every patient the treatment they personally think they need?
|
| Do you think a healthcare system should always
| unquestioningly give every patient any treatment that any
| doctor says they need?
|
| Do you think it is possible for doctors to be wrong?
|
| Do you think a healthcare system should be designed to try to
| avoid unnecessary spending?
|
| Do you think that, in such a system, a patient might be
| denied a treatment that they think they need, or even a
| treatment a doctor says they need, and this might still be
| the right conclusion?
|
| Do you think that patient might be unhappy about the system
| as a result?
| unsui wrote:
| Do you think that having a default of "Delay, Deny, Defend"
| is a good-faith approach to healthcare?
|
| Cuz sure seems like you're on the side of DDD by default.
| jjulius wrote:
| >... some of those customers are unhappy...
|
| That's a _tremendously_ generous way of saying, "Many of their
| customers are dead because the company opted for profit over
| treatment".
| avalys wrote:
| UHCs profit margins are 6%. What do you think is a reasonable
| profit margin for a for-profit insurance company?
|
| How many people are dead because you didn't personally
| volunteer all of your disposable income to pay for their
| medical care?
|
| Why are you more entitled to your earnings than UHC?
| syndicatedjelly wrote:
| What is the point of this hypothetical?
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| The company that did the worst thing I ever worked for did...
| drum roll... cold calls to random people trying to sell them
| beds, mattresses, pillows and blankets.
|
| So I do feel morally in the clear to cheer over the death of
| someone whose bonus hinged on him increasing the suffering and
| reducing the life span of completely random, innocent people,
| that, as a group, only had in common ,,not being rich".
| quickthrowman wrote:
| None of my customers or their loved one's have ever died as a
| result of my decisions.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| >unhappy customers
|
| This is hideous.
| patmcc wrote:
| Maybe a bunch of these folks should get together and start a
| non-profit health insurance company.
|
| After all, given there's so much profit to be had in it, surely
| they could operate at break-even, not pay crazy executive
| salaries, approve every claim, and be beloved by all.
| lazyeye wrote:
| Programming language inventor or serial killer?
|
| https://vole.wtf/coder-serial-killer-quiz/
| BadHumans wrote:
| The funniest thing about the whole thing to me is that we have
| had privacy taken away or even voluntarily given it up to the
| police state in the name of security and then this guy randomly
| walks up and offs a member of the 1% and the only reason he got
| caught was because the feds got lucky.
| zingababba wrote:
| No, because he was sloppy and lowered his mask...
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| It still came down to an old guy recognizing him in a
| McDonalds.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Which seems likely to have been due to said maskless photo.
| BadHumans wrote:
| He has a written manifesto in his pocket and was out
| eating McDonalds. It's not like he trying hard to hide
| crawfordcomeaux wrote:
| With programmers, hackers, computer scientists, systems
| designers/engineers carrying some of the most privileged
| skillsets needed for designing and implementing replacements to
| systems of oppression (and disruptions to said systems), I've
| been wondering where the ones working to do this can be found.
|
| I learned in Computer Ethics 101 about how the history of the
| development of radiological machines led to the realization that
| the ethical path to creating systems for our lives involves
| stopping using them when they accidentally/repeatedly harm.
|
| I'm looking for different paths than murder to accomplish this.
| Anyone else want to get together around these ideas to start
| designing?
| jckahn wrote:
| This is the main reason I built https://chitchatter.im/. I hope
| to see it be used as a tool to safely organize around building
| a better world.
| breadwinner wrote:
| He was carrying all of the evidence with him, including the fake
| ID he used at the hostel, the gun & suppressor, mask, and even a
| handwritten manifesto that points to his motivation. It seems he
| wanted to be found.
| qzw wrote:
| Exactly my thoughts as well. Every piece of evidence law
| enforcement has was basically intentionally provided by him. If
| he just stuffed his trash in one of his 7 pockets, or wore a
| pair of sunglasses, or didn't actually stare straight at the
| camera in the taxi like he was getting his school picture
| taken? I mean pretty much the only thing he failed to do was
| leave his business card at the crime scene.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| [dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42369465
| readyplayernull wrote:
| > Mr Mangione previously worked as a programming intern for
| Fixarixis, a video game developer.
|
| What? Do they mean Firaxis? Devs of some Civilization and X-Com
| versions?
| sneed_chucker wrote:
| Yeah, there are screenshots of his LinkedIn floating around
| that show he apparently did Bugfixes on CIV 6. (The profile has
| since been scrubbed of course)
| yobananaboy wrote:
| It's not scrubbed, still here:
| https://www.linkedin.com/in/luigi-mangione/
| readyplayernull wrote:
| Interesting. The relation with Civ gives a kind of grand
| scheme. Let's see what his dead man account brings up:
|
| https://youtube.com/@PepMangione
| Miner49er wrote:
| Might be fake, but looks like he may have had a dead man's switch
| upload a YouTube video: https://youtu.be/bdhs9g3Wwg0
| breadwinner wrote:
| It ends with "All is scheduled, be patient". Presumably it
| means more videos are coming, explaining his motivation.
| chaospossblity wrote:
| look at his youtube profile pic
| Bjorkbat wrote:
| I'm weirdly not too surprised due to this belief I have that
| software developers would make effective criminals. A lot of this
| boils down to a belief I have that not getting caught in the
| first place is easy. Murders have something like a 50% solve rate
| and you can decrease your chances of getting caught with a little
| knowledge on how to evade common forensic techniques along with
| some planning. Those who get caught doing one crime or another
| either were dumb to begin or eventually got lazy and made a dumb
| mistake in hindsight.
|
| Besides that though, the ethos that we have lends itself well to
| acquiring advanced knowledge in more-or-less all domains, crime
| and forensics included.
| tzs wrote:
| Careful. That solve rate is overall. When planning your life in
| crime you probably want to use the solve rate for the
| particular type of people you plan to murder.
|
| The solve rate for murders of white people is generally in the
| 80+% range, which is probably what you'd want to use if going
| after CEOs.
| astrange wrote:
| More importantly, engineers are for some reason especially
| likely to be terrorists.
|
| https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/29836/1/Why_are_there_so_many_Engi...
|
| I think it's related to old physicist brain where you decide
| you know everything about everyone else's field.
|
| https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-03-21
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| "due to this belief I have that software developers would make
| effective criminals. A lot of this boils down to a belief I
| have that not getting caught in the first place is easy."
|
| Ummm.... You understand that the software developer was just
| caught by a McDonald's cashier?
| imglorp wrote:
| His Goodreads comment on Ted Kacyzinski's book (better known for
| other work). https://i.redd.it/j9n3oplojv5e1.jpeg
| JSDevOps wrote:
| Let me get this straight:
|
| The suspected killer is Luigi Mangione--an Ivy League-educated
| computer science graduate, voracious reader, and active GitHub
| contributor. He has an IQ over 130 but makes a baffling series of
| decisions.
|
| First, he takes off his mask at a Starbucks to flirt with an
| employee. Then, an hour later, he calmly murders the CEO of a
| major healthcare company and rides away on a bike.
|
| A week later, he shows up at a McDonald's carrying the murder
| weapon, the fake ID he used to check into a hotel, and a written
| manifesto railing against the American healthcare system. While
| sitting there, the cashier somehow identifies him.
|
| Instead of leaving, he sits at a table working on his laptop,
| with the ghost gun and suppressor he built himself, waiting until
| the police arrive and arrest him.
|
| Got it.
| Miner49er wrote:
| He actually flirted with an employee at the hostel he stayed
| at, probably days before the murder. But yeah, the rest seems
| about right.
| roncesvalles wrote:
| Since when did making small talk become "flirting"?
| delecti wrote:
| As I've heard it, it was characterized as flirting by the
| employee.
| blast wrote:
| Some criminals want to get caught.
| bawolff wrote:
| Sometimes people do crime to be famous, this pattern would fit
| that.
| astrange wrote:
| Yes, he's not acting rationally because he's having a mental
| health crisis.
|
| If you look at his Twitter account, he disappeared a few months
| ago and all the replies were friends asking where he went.
|
| (Also, he's a tpot poster, which is a kind of tech bro that
| likes tweeting about how great it is to do psychedelic drugs.
| This is bad for your mental health!)
| cariaso wrote:
| Nit
|
| https://github.com/lnmangione
|
| ...."Active" GitHub?
| wslh wrote:
| Unabomber was more complex to track [1]. I don't want to argue
| that he had a higher IQ since someone with a normal IQ could
| make it perfectly fine.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski
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