[HN Gopher] God Plays Chess (2018)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       God Plays Chess (2018)
        
       Author : akkartik
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2024-12-09 18:55 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.chessbase.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.chessbase.com)
        
       | mock-possum wrote:
       | The whole article being ultimately an ad for chess endgame
       | position _DVDs_ of all things was quite a twist.
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | It's prosocial to mention that the market rate for endgame
         | tablebases is $0 [0][1][2]. (And also that this particular
         | vendor are ethically challenged weasels who steal very labor-
         | intensive GPL projects and try to pass them off as their own
         | [3]).
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endgame_tablebase#External_lin...
         | 
         | [1] https://syzygy-tables.info/
         | 
         | [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40949943 ( _"
         | Optimizing the Lichess Tablebase Server (lichess.org)"_)
         | 
         | [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27896386 ( _" Our
         | lawsuit against ChessBase (stockfishchess.org)_")
        
       | snikeris wrote:
       | I have trouble believing in God, but when I play chess, I
       | sometimes get the sense that it's not me and the opponent playing
       | against each other, but God playing against himself. I guess it's
       | something to do with the mystery of insights.
        
         | thom wrote:
         | Dunno if it's just the timezone difference, but whenever I
         | play, God's drunk.
        
           | why-el wrote:
           | not to be confused with "Drunk Magnus", a very strong player.
        
         | wavemode wrote:
         | Do you mean that in the sense of that old quote, "we are the
         | universe experiencing itself"?
        
           | snikeris wrote:
           | Yes, indeed. It's like you are witnessing the unfolding of
           | the universe with each move.
        
       | tromp wrote:
       | > "No, no," said God, "it was really tough. More than 10^35 legal
       | positions
       | 
       | God should know there are approximately 4.8*10^44 legal positions
       | [1].
       | 
       | > Secondly Ken was predicting that the game of chess was a draw,
       | i.e. that probably a majority of all legal positions, including
       | the starting position, would lead to a draw with perfect play.
       | 
       | Only the latter is what the game being drawn means. The majority
       | of legal positions is in fact overwhelmingly to one side's
       | advantage, as is clear from sampling a few dozen random legal
       | positions.
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/tromp/ChessPositionRanking
        
         | volemo wrote:
         | To be fair, 10^44 _is_ more than 10^35.
        
       | thom wrote:
       | ChessBase is a horrible program and you don't need it to get your
       | own tablebases. You can generate your own with:
       | 
       | https://github.com/syzygy1/tb
       | 
       | But everything up to 6 pieces is on BitTorrent these days. The 7
       | piece tablebase is 20TB or so, so it'll be a few years before you
       | can fit that one your phone. Pretty sure Lichess has an API for
       | that. Never tried to hook it up to Stockfish or Leela though.
        
       | janalsncm wrote:
       | Chessbase is one of those pieces of software that would be
       | completely eaten by a cheaper alternative if the market was
       | bigger. $400+ for a single download, selling mostly open source
       | data, and it looks like it was made in 1998.
       | 
       | The thing is, there is money in chess but not that much money.
       | There will never be a unicorn in chess software.
        
         | Scarblac wrote:
         | Scid exists of course, I've used it since forever and it works
         | fine. But you have to find your own games to fill it with
         | (probably from The Week In Chess) and it looks like Linux did
         | in 1998.
         | 
         | Most of my opening stuff is just in a bunch of Lichess studies
         | these days though.
        
         | dmurray wrote:
         | Open source may have eaten the other end of the market. Lichess
         | is good: not as feature rich as Chessbase and a less complete
         | database, last time I checked, but less buggy and faster for
         | some purposes.
         | 
         | It's hard to imagine a competitor at say $50 that did say 80%
         | of Chessbase's functionality would sell many copies. It needs
         | to be 150% of Chessbase and cost $200.
         | 
         | Scid (and forks) also exists in the open source world. It works
         | just fine but the UX is lacking; I've never met a serious
         | player who relied on it. It's the GIMP to Chessbase's
         | Photoshop. So the UI needs to be great or to be a clone of
         | Chessbase's.
         | 
         | There's also Chessbase mobile which was an amazing product when
         | it first came out. It has the three features people really want
         | from Chessbase: search for a position, search for a player's
         | games, run engine analysis. All in the cloud. For something
         | like $6.99. Sadly Chessbase seem to underprovision servers for
         | it, but it's a sign they can give away the product if they need
         | to get into a price war.
        
       | pmdulaney wrote:
       | Dice, no; chess, yes.
        
         | aphantastic wrote:
         | Backgammon, most likely.
        
       | soegaard wrote:
       | Love the Leko anecdote.
        
       | Scarblac wrote:
       | I didn't know that anecdote. The point that a perfect chess
       | engine would not necessarily be hard to play a draw against
       | (until you accidentally play a losing move) is one that many
       | people miss.
       | 
       | Although it could of course use some strong existing engine to
       | pick a move in drawn tablebase positions. I assume Stockfish
       | already does that.
        
       | veidelis wrote:
       | Really appreciate the Leko story about the endgames. He's the top
       | level commentator that I enjoy the most, but I don't always
       | understand what he says in his analysis. Leno's Banter Blitz was
       | also quite fun to watch -
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5-eGwi2NSmY
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-12-09 23:00 UTC)