[HN Gopher] Itch.io Taken Down by Funko
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Itch.io Taken Down by Funko
        
       Author : spiralganglion
       Score  : 996 points
       Date   : 2024-12-09 07:19 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bsky.app)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bsky.app)
        
       | ailurooo wrote:
       | ugh this kind of stuff just makes me wish DNS was less
       | centralized, even though it's already incredibly uncentralized..
       | of course it's just all registrars just being a weak point.. as
       | always
        
         | TZubiri wrote:
         | It is as decentralized as you can get. Dns is the entire
         | foundation of decentralization, any more and you get into
         | schizo hyperprivacy protocols.
        
           | viraptor wrote:
           | It's federated, not decentralized. For decentralized you need
           | something like https://ens.domains/
        
             | TZubiri wrote:
             | Are there any well established definitions for these terms
             | as separate?
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | Yes? Basically half of them? Some people put federation
               | in decentralised group, some say only distributed is
               | decentralised.
               | 
               | In short: centralised = 1 owner/operator, federated =
               | many semi-autonomous operators to choose from,
               | decentralised/distributed = everyone's an operator on the
               | same level.
               | 
               | With DNS you still have groups of operators who can tell
               | you what to do and they have the main agencies on top of
               | that. I subscribe to the "it's not _really_ decentralised
               | " view.
        
               | TZubiri wrote:
               | Source: It came to me in a dream.
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | Alternatively, do a quick search for "decentralised vs
               | federated" yourself. People here don't owe you basic
               | explanations.
        
           | jstanley wrote:
           | So, it's not as decentralised as you can get, you just
           | personally don't like decentralisation?
        
             | TZubiri wrote:
             | *Without descending into a madness that decentralizes your
             | very thought process and identity
        
           | remram wrote:
           | The network is decentralized, but each domain still has a
           | single registrar, making the service you (domain owner)
           | receive very centralized. If that one registrar misbehaves or
           | is unresponsive, you're out of luck.
        
             | TZubiri wrote:
             | You can switch registrars if you want.
        
       | bpye wrote:
       | The registrar in question is iwantmyname, so I guess you can add
       | them to your "do not use" list.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | I feel like it's better to have a "do use" list for something
         | as important as a domain name registrar.
         | 
         | - Namecheap
         | 
         | - Cloudflare
         | 
         | - Route 53 (if on AWS)
         | 
         | Any others?
        
           | bpye wrote:
           | Porkbun seem popular, I do use them for a couple domains. I
           | haven't heard of anything egregious.
        
             | spiffotron wrote:
             | I use porkbun for all my domains, I've never had any issues
             | and they don't seem to gouge you on price for the smallest
             | things.
        
           | tucnak wrote:
           | Gandi?
        
             | jarofgreen wrote:
             | They were sold to another company a year or two ago and now
             | some people are a bit wary
        
               | NetOpWibby wrote:
               | I've noticed that Gandi has become SUPER expensive as
               | opposed to Hover lately as well. I'm just letting domains
               | expire instead.
        
               | input_sh wrote:
               | One of my domains on Gandi was up for renewal. I've
               | noticed they charged ~$140, while Namecheap charged ~$35.
               | Easiest transfer decision I've ever made.
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | wow that's 4 times as expensive!!
               | 
               | seems like gandi didn't just multiply the prices but
               | raised them exponentially.
               | 
               | beware of namecheap though. see
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42364240
        
               | input_sh wrote:
               | I've read my fair share of Namecheap criticisms over the
               | years and remain unconvinced.
               | 
               | I point my nameservers somewhere else and then forget
               | about Namecheap for a year.
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | i just moved all my domains off gandi because they
               | doubled or tripled the renewal prices.
               | 
               | i am guessing they are milking their existing customers
               | who don't notice or don't have the knowhow or resources
               | to move their domains, and once those wise up to that
               | they will lose a lot of them
               | 
               | apart from prices their operation didn't seem to change
               | after the sale. although i only have a few domains so i
               | probably didn't interact with them enough to notice
               | anything else
        
               | InsideOutSanta wrote:
               | Damn, that's good info. I have all my domains on Gandi
               | and noticed the pricing changes, but I just stupidly
               | assumed that it was something the registry operators were
               | causing. Sucks to have to leave Gandi, their UX is great,
               | no stupid upselling, very clear website.
        
               | buro9 wrote:
               | I've been doing this too, every time a renew comes around
               | I shift it to Namecheap.
        
             | trissi1996 wrote:
             | They hiked prices massively so I wanted to transfer away,
             | it was a massive shitshow.
             | 
             | Auth-codes given on the website were expired and they took
             | 2 weeks to give me the correct ones near the end of the
             | registry period.
             | 
             | Support was extremely unresponsive. As this this was a side
             | project I couldn't spent time on every day my domain went
             | into quarantine for a short time. They answered 2 days
             | before the end of the rental period, when requesting the
             | auth codes ~2.5 weeks before.
             | 
             | Will never use them again after this experience.
             | 
             | Porkbun is my new home for most stuff and domains.lt for
             | .lt which porkbun doesn't offer yet sadly.
        
               | tucnak wrote:
               | Wow, I never knew that to be the case! How would I find a
               | registrar that supports .at LTD? Cloudflare, AWS, Google
               | --neither supports it.
        
               | trissi1996 wrote:
               | From looking through https://www.nic.at/en/my-at-
               | domain/at-partnerfinder the only one that I knew and did
               | not hear shit about seems to be OVH.
               | 
               | Others might be good, but no idea who exactly, many small
               | unknown companies in the list that could be either great
               | or shitty.
        
               | tucnak wrote:
               | Thanks for Porkbun suggestion, I'll keep that in mind; it
               | doesn't support .at but I'm now tempted to move my other
               | domains there. Gandi used to be good, it's a shame what
               | it's become.
        
               | nouryqt wrote:
               | I'm using dynadot for my .at domains
        
             | eps wrote:
             | Bought by a private equity company.
             | 
             | Went back on their contract obligations already, hiked
             | prices, etc. Will be milked to death.
             | 
             | Best to consider them dead.
        
             | supermatt wrote:
             | god no - gandi absolutely suck now for both service and
             | price. I moved all my domains to netim.
        
           | midasz wrote:
           | I'm with Namecheap and they're decent but one big minus is
           | how inaccessible their API is, would put them on the bottom
           | of the "do use" list.
        
           | KingOfCoders wrote:
           | Namecheap has horrendous billing UI with their products, also
           | not PDF so makes it hard for freelancers when you have many
           | domains and your accounts want an PDF. Easiest is a registrar
           | that mails you invoices in PDF.
        
             | teitoklien wrote:
             | their billing works just fine, i pay with it all the time.
             | 
             | They support credit/debit cards, bitcoin, and Paypal. I
             | went with Namecheap especially because of their seamless
             | payment method, Used to struggle at times paying for my
             | domains with Gandi, etc.
             | 
             | Namecheap payment system works just fine.
        
               | KingOfCoders wrote:
               | Me: "Namecheap has horrendous billing UI"
               | 
               | You: "their billing works just fine" [then talking about
               | payments, when I wasn't talking about payments but
               | billing, "The process of sending an invoice (a bill) to
               | customers for goods or services" -Wikipedia]
               | 
               | They have their billing for domains and products spread
               | over several pages, there is not one place in the UI
               | where they have all payments/billing combined, they don't
               | have PDFs as I've stated and they don't sent invoices by
               | email. Their billing UI is horrendous.
        
           | TZubiri wrote:
           | What's wrong with aws lmao
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | Nothing. He said that they are one you _should_ use.
        
           | koito17 wrote:
           | Personally use Porkbun since Namecheap's API is poorly-
           | documented and they attempted a KYC audit for purchasing a
           | $100 domain.
           | 
           | I am fine with the identity verification, but their ticketing
           | system seems to have sent all of my e-mail to their spam box,
           | because they would never respond. I attempted opening tickets
           | explaining the e-mail situation, but they wouldn't listen. In
           | the end, I gave up and let them deactivate the account.
           | 
           | Moved to Porkbun, purchased the exact same domain (no KYC
           | required!), and have been a happy user of their API for about
           | two years now. They also have much more lax requirements for
           | API usage compared to Namecheap. Porkbun also supports
           | WebAuthn and logging in with a security key. It's overall a
           | much nicer service than Namecheap.
        
             | antihero wrote:
             | Do porkbun have a terraform provider?
             | 
             | E: https://registry.terraform.io/providers/cullenmcdermott/
             | pork...
             | 
             | Not sure if it works though
        
             | yorer wrote:
             | That kyc thingy is icann requirement, its how domain
             | registration works. Icann require every accredited
             | registrar to verify registrant details so registrar would
             | randomly ask for id, passport etc. That include porkbun,
             | they're bound to their contract with icann as an accredited
             | registrar too. They probably won't ask today but maybe
             | tomorrow, or next week, or next month, or next year, or
             | never.
        
               | eps wrote:
               | Other registrars just send an annual email asking to
               | verify your contact details. Done. Icaan satisified. No
               | need to actually harass your clients.
        
               | yorer wrote:
               | They already got your details from your card details and
               | decide its enough. Something like vpn, using niche
               | browser, details on card not tally with registration
               | details etc etc would throw off their threat mitigation
               | system. Also different business operated differently,
               | their payment gateway behave differently etc etc. Too
               | many random factor to avoid xxx specific registrar
               | because they ask for kyc when the kyc itself is a
               | requirement.
        
               | egorfine wrote:
               | > That kyc thingy is icann requirement
               | 
               | Is it really? Or just contact info is enough?
        
               | rdl wrote:
               | The requirement in the contract is nowhere near that
               | specific. Contact info validation is sufficient for
               | almost all registrars. It's possible a given registry has
               | higher standards, or maybe one registrar got some order
               | to be more thorough, but great reason to avoid given this
               | is a commodity and there are actually good alternatives.
               | (I broadly like Tucows and Cloudflare)
               | 
               | Namecheap is on my NO NO NO list, along with GoDaddy (and
               | a bunch of others). Google Domains was also on this OH
               | GOD NO list, but thankfully Google did the Google thing
               | and killed the product.
        
               | egorfine wrote:
               | Most of my domains are on Namecheap since the times when
               | wikipedia's domains were there. Hopefully, my low-key
               | personal domains are of no interest to anyone...
        
               | aviraldg wrote:
               | What's the problem with Namecheap (I have my domains
               | there right now)?
        
             | adhamsalama wrote:
             | I bought a domain on Namecheap instead of Porkbun for the
             | exact same reason!
        
           | poincaredisk wrote:
           | OVH is pretty good
        
             | nicoloren wrote:
             | Yes, never add a problem here (in France).
        
           | teitoklien wrote:
           | Route 53 is outrageously expensive for domains, one should
           | only use it, if they need AWS's DNS product.
        
             | pfoof wrote:
             | You can use any registrar with R53, so it's more like: if
             | you really need to have domain registration written in
             | Terraform and the other registrar doesn't provide it
        
             | nucleardog wrote:
             | For .com as of Aug 2024, Verisign says they charge $10.26
             | wholesale, and ICAANN charges $0.18/domain for a total of
             | $10.46/yr wholesale.
             | 
             | Route53's .com is $14/yr. So the three year price is $42.
             | 
             | Three year prices from a few registrars (there's so many
             | pricing games the "per year" price is nonsense in most
             | cases):                   Cloudflare: $31.32 (-0.06)
             | GoDaddy: $46.93 (+15.55)         Namecheap: $41.24 (+9.86)
             | Namesilo: $51.87 (+20.49)         Porkbun: $29.61 (-1.77)
             | Route53: $42 (+10.46)         Spaceship: $28.98 (-2.40)
             | 
             | All diffs given against the $31.38/3yr wholesale price from
             | Verisign+ICAAN.
             | 
             | Not sure how that qualifies as "outrageously expensive".
             | 
             | You can make your own trade-offs, but for something that's
             | literally the foundation of my online identity, business,
             | etc I'm willing to pay $3.50/yr over wholesale for a
             | company with a reputation, support, and generally aligned
             | incentives.
             | 
             | You may choose to instead tie your online identity and
             | business to someone charging less than cost to save half
             | the price of a big mac a year. But I will find it hard to
             | dig up much sympathy when we all find out _how_ they're
             | planning to make money doing that.
        
           | TurtleStacker wrote:
           | INWX
        
             | cybrox wrote:
             | Been with INWX for >10y, never had an issue.
        
             | sebmellen wrote:
             | INWX is really great and they also support just about every
             | TLD.
        
             | zeeZ wrote:
             | I'm very happy with INWX, but their API is a bit lacking
             | when it comes to limiting the potential blast radius.
             | 
             | It's either full access to everything or, thanks to their
             | support for creating a special account on request, only
             | full access to DNS management.
        
           | weinzierl wrote:
           | easyDNS (not to be confused with DNSEasy or DNS Made Easy).
           | Very happy customer for many years and there are not many
           | companies I can say that about.
           | 
           | If you are in Germany donaindiscount24.com is good option
           | too.
        
             | clan wrote:
             | Beware! The OP was originally at a good provider which got
             | bought out by Team Internet. See:
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42364033
             | 
             | If you take a look at:
             | 
             | https://www.domaindiscount24.com/en/about-us
             | 
             | You will see that Team Internet owns them as well. So I
             | would personally bve on the fence if I would consider them
             | good or not.
        
           | seanthemon wrote:
           | I've been using namecheap for over a decade and have had zero
           | issues with them.
        
           | kallistisoft wrote:
           | I've been using IONOS (formerly 1und1) for the last 20 years
           | for all of my DNS and hosting needs and couldn't be happier.
           | Their uptime, non-obtrusive policies, and customer support
           | have all been top notch _. Can 't recommend enough.
           | 
           | _ As an example; I had a dedicated server that I was leasing
           | that I wanted to upgrade, the sales tech noticed that the
           | plan I was currently on had been retired/replaced and
           | credited my account with difference of what I had payed vs
           | the new payment tier which amounted to six months of billing
           | on the upgraded server. You can't really put a price on that
           | kind of honesty!
        
             | MortyWaves wrote:
             | Their extremely weird and annoying adverts in the UK have
             | ensured I will never use any of their services.
        
               | sli wrote:
               | Back when I was using them, their ToS disallowed a whole
               | lot of perfectly benign content, like pictures of
               | celebrities. If you had a blog about movies and posted a
               | picture of an actor, your account would get deactivated
               | and your data simply deleted. I wouldn't ever trust them
               | for anything I care about.
        
             | supermatt wrote:
             | I read this as you having to contact them in order for them
             | to credit you for overcharging you for a retired product
             | when the replacement equivalent was priced lower.
             | 
             | Why didn't they proactively inform you that your service
             | was retired and there was an alternative available?
             | 
             | It sounds like this must have been going on for a while to
             | be worth 6 months of service in difference alone.
             | 
             | I left 1and1 close on 2 decades ago. If you consider this a
             | story of good service, then I would suggest you try some
             | other provider.
        
             | terminalbraid wrote:
             | IONOS requires you to make a phone call to talk to their
             | retention reps before you can cancel _anything_
        
             | antifa wrote:
             | 1and1 would call my house trying to sell me shit.
        
           | norman784 wrote:
           | Can you elaborate on Cloudflare?
           | 
           | I currently have some domains there (moved a few years ago
           | from Godaddy), so is there something I need to worry about?
        
             | framapotari wrote:
             | This is a "do use" list, so recommended services.
        
             | beAbU wrote:
             | Cloudflare is on the GP's "do use" list, not the "do not
             | use" list.
             | 
             | I think the HN consensus is that Cloudflare is a reasonably
             | safe bet.
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | Though keep in mind that domains registered through CF
               | must use CFs nameservers, you can't point them elsewhere
               | if you need to. They sell domains at cost so of course
               | they want to keep you in their ecosystem so you might pay
               | for something else.
        
               | beAbU wrote:
               | That's true. I have my domains on Namecheap and my DNS on
               | CF. I think it's just that little bit of extra safety to
               | spread the risk a little.
        
           | JimDabell wrote:
           | Namecheap is definitely on my "never use under any
           | circumstances" list for reasons I outlined in this comment:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18091287
           | 
           | The full thread is worth reading for more feedback on a range
           | of registrars, particularly Namecheap:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18086522
           | 
           | I _strongly_ encourage people to only recommend domain
           | registrars if they have verified that customer support won't
           | completely fuck you over when something goes wrong.
           | Recommending registrars when you've only experienced the
           | happy path is doing a disservice to the people you are trying
           | to help out.
        
             | forgotpwd16 wrote:
             | Namecheap gave me a quick response and help when requested
             | support regarding a DNSSEC issue. So not everyone has bad
             | customer experience when they needing it.
        
             | doublerabbit wrote:
             | I use namecheap too.
             | 
             | Apart from their UI being, huh, I've had no problems.
        
           | soulofmischief wrote:
           | Namecheap is terrible and cannot be trusted, you can google
           | tons of horror stories.
           | 
           | Without a doubt, Porkbun is one of the best. Their staff is
           | knowledgeable, helpful and efficient. Highly recommend them.
        
           | Luker88 wrote:
           | Any recommendations for people looking for a strictly
           | European registrar?
        
             | conradfr wrote:
             | Infomaniak
             | 
             | Netim
        
               | bondant wrote:
               | I'm also looking to move my domains out of gandi but stay
               | with a european registrar. Did someone try netim
               | customers' service? They say on their "about us" webpage
               | that the company is still owned by the founders, so I
               | would think the enshittification hasn't started yet. But
               | if some have experiences to share it would be nice.
        
               | conradfr wrote:
               | I went to Infomaniak when moving from Gandi because at
               | the time I found the text contrast too light on Netim
               | ahah, seems better now.
               | 
               | But they seemed quite proactive on Twitter around the
               | time people left Gandi en masse.
        
           | Ylpertnodi wrote:
           | I'd prefer a 'do not' list, because 'experience quoted'. Any
           | one of the names you mention could be bought/ new CEO etc
           | tomorrow and start the turdification (tm) slide.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | Hover is fine. Never had a domain shut down though.
           | 
           | I have one on dynadot because Hover doesn't support the TLD,
           | and the website sure is a lot more awkward.
        
             | freedomben wrote:
             | Another happy Hover user. Been using them many years. Not
             | the cheapest, but a reasonable markup and works well, and
             | hasn't shown signs of enshittification. Knock on wood.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | Well you're not going to get reliable service if you want
               | to know which one is cheapest. You want the professional
               | registrar large corporations use if anything.
        
           | spariev wrote:
           | I use pananames.com, they for sure won't do things like OP
           | described
        
           | kuon wrote:
           | I use infomaniak from switzerland. Mainly because I can
           | physically go to their office and discuss in person if there
           | is a problem.
        
             | cachedthing0 wrote:
             | I used infomaniak once, I'm sure you spended quite some
             | time at their office.
        
           | orphea wrote:
           | Namecheap is on my personal "never use; fuck them" list. I
           | moved my domains to Cloudflare, and I am happy since then.
           | 
           | Porkbun is great.
        
           | pfoof wrote:
           | I use Namecheap and sadly still Gandi for old domains.
           | 
           | The only issue I experience with Namecheap are included
           | redirects which have something like 90% uptime.
           | 
           | Route53 domains is seriously not needed for anything - just
           | add zone in AWS and point your registrar to new NS.
        
             | weberer wrote:
             | >Route53 domains is seriously not needed for anything
             | 
             | If you're already hosting on AWS, then you'd only have one
             | potentially hostile company to deal with instead of 2.
        
           | xoa wrote:
           | easyDNS still seems good for those who want a more old style
           | "full fat" registrar like gandi was? I know some folks I
           | respect who have long used it alongside Route 53. Though they
           | don't appear to support hardware tokens which is a major
           | black mark in my book in 2024.
           | 
           | As well as Gandi, DNSimple was another higher service one I
           | really liked that went crazy on pricing. Agreed the registrar
           | scene nowadays seems like a quite small "do use" list vs a
           | couple of "don't use" :(.
        
             | mech422 wrote:
             | I've been using easyDNS for 5(10?) years... Never had a
             | problem with them and highly recommend them. I do 'hobby
             | stuff' - nothing fancy, but it always just works. One time
             | I called to ask if they support wildcard sub-domains (www.
             | _.example.com or whatever._.example.com) and actually had a
             | real engineer pick up the phone :-) (btw - it did work,
             | very well actually :-) )
             | 
             | The backup mail spool is nice too...
             | 
             | all in all - not the cheapest - but worth the piece of mind
             | in my book :-D
        
           | bb010g wrote:
           | I've had great experiences with NameSilo.
        
             | smitelli wrote:
             | Another happy customer of NameSilo here. A handful of .com,
             | .net, and a .org domain registered with them, and I've
             | never been personally irritated by anything they've done.
        
           | gcr wrote:
           | Namesilo?
        
           | thequux wrote:
           | I've used Register4Less for over a decade and I've been
           | thrilled with them. They're slightly more expensive than the
           | cheapest options (by a buck or two), but this is more than
           | made up for by the fact that they're the only registrar I've
           | ever used who have proactively reached out about minor
           | issues. Every time I've needed to email them, I've gotten a
           | response from somebody who can fix the problem within
           | minutes.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | I've been using Hover since they advertised on 5by5 a decade
           | and a half ago, and never had a single issue. They never
           | bother me nor do I need to remember they exist. I only hear
           | from them when they need ICANN contact confirmation or to
           | remind me a domain is expiring.
        
           | itscrush wrote:
           | Namecheap's been out a while, I'd drop them from your list
           | too. Porkbun's in for now.
        
           | f33d5173 wrote:
           | The upper two have had several known issues with them. I
           | haven't heard anything about the latter one, but that doesn't
           | mean they're free of issues.
        
       | rf15 wrote:
       | Brand Shield and other AI slopware needs to be sued to death for
       | all the damage they cause, including their customer's reputation
       | and bottom line
        
         | kvdveer wrote:
         | Of course the problem is that legally speaking, they don't
         | cause any damage - service providers they target cause the
         | damage. BS have no true authority over these service providers,
         | just the threat of some legal claim. The service providers
         | comply voluntarily as they don't want to spend time checking if
         | the claim is valid.
        
           | PostOnce wrote:
           | I don't think this is the kind of advice a good lawyer would
           | give.
           | 
           | BrandShield, Funko, and iwantmyname all caused serious
           | financial harm through, at a minimum, tortious negligence.
           | 
           | I'm not a lawyer, but even a yokel like me knows there's more
           | to this legally than a shrug and "the software did it".
        
             | RichEO wrote:
             | It's clear that you're not a lawyer, because if you were
             | you'd know that there's no established duty of care between
             | BrandShield and web masters.
        
               | klez wrote:
               | Clearly I'm not a lawyer either, but isn't accusing
               | someone of doing something that is not true and that can
               | have legal ramification a suable behavior in the US?
        
               | pera wrote:
               | According to this no one has ever been prosecuted _just_
               | for sending false DMCA takedown notices:
               | 
               | https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/51541/has-anyone-
               | bee...
               | 
               | They do mention a case where the defendant acted in bad
               | faith and was found liable for damages though.
        
               | pdpi wrote:
               | It's a good thing it's not a DMCA takedown notice, then.
               | They reported itch.io for phishing.
        
               | pera wrote:
               | Sorry you are right, somehow I'd missed that part
        
               | pdpi wrote:
               | Sounds like a pretty straightforward case of tortious
               | interference, actually.
        
             | jcranmer wrote:
             | IANAL either, but my guess is that itch.io has precisely 0
             | plausible legal recourse here.
             | 
             | The strongest case would be something along the lines of
             | breach of contract via the domain registrar, but your
             | standard internet contract has a term in it that amounts to
             | "we get the right to fuck you", so I assume that applies
             | here, so no breach of contract actually exists. This also
             | kills every claim that's dependent on breach of contract,
             | so tortious interference is also dead.
             | 
             | Fraud will fail because itch.io itself isn't being
             | defrauded at the very least. Business disparagement, and
             | anything else along the lines of defamation, is going to
             | fail because you need something like actual malice--
             | specific knowledge of falsity--there, and that's
             | essentially impossible to prove, not without somebody
             | admitting that they knew all along everything was false.
             | 
             | Tortious interference is dead for several reasons. First,
             | you need an underlying tort, which, as detailed above,
             | probably doesn't exist. Next, you need specific knowledge
             | of the contract being broken. Finally, you need
             | intentionality here: it's not "I did something that caused
             | the contract to be broken", it's "I did something _to_
             | cause the contract to be broken. " Outside of somebody
             | jumping up and down shouting "I'm tortiously interfering
             | with your contracts," it's basically impossible to prove
             | tortious interference.
        
               | amyjess wrote:
               | > you need something like actual malice--specific
               | knowledge of falsity
               | 
               | IANAL, but as I understand it the definition of malice
               | also includes "reckless disregard for the truth". I'm
               | sure a good lawyer can argue that not having human
               | lawyers review, investigate, and confirm computer-
               | generated abuse reports before sending them to outsiders
               | constitutes a reckless disregard for the truth.
        
               | jcranmer wrote:
               | A lawyer might argue that, but it's not going to be a
               | compelling argument. Recklessness is generally a
               | conscious disregard of the consequences; as applied to
               | defamation-like claims, it's generally seen as "you
               | specifically voiced doubts about the truth". Failing to
               | vet automated abuse reports is going to be at best
               | negligence (and I'm dubious of even that, because given
               | the nonbinding nature of abuse reports, it's not clear
               | there is even a duty to candor in abuse reports that one
               | can be negligent of), absent internal complaints about
               | "the accuracy of these things is total shit".
        
               | gopher_space wrote:
               | Knowing that you'll absolutely generate false positives
               | and not providing a method of automatically fixing those
               | would be a deliberate action, not recklessness or
               | negligence. I wouldn't be surprised to find code that
               | pings staff based on account size.
               | 
               | It seems like providers could remove themselves from the
               | situation by just giving their clients a "fair use!"
               | response button?
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | Eh, dunno about that. They made what would appear to be a
           | false complaint; hard to really consider what was going on
           | here 'fraud and phishing'!
           | 
           | That the magic robot perhaps did it for them matters not at
           | all, in terms of whose fault it is, though a proliferation of
           | magic robots does make junk services like this more of a
           | problem, in that they can flood the internet with nonsense
           | more effectively.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Even if the suit is 100% justified (which it is in this case),
         | and you can show damages, the problem will usually be of
         | jurisdiction.
         | 
         | Funko Pop is an American Company.
         | 
         | BrandShield, the "Brand Protection Software" they used, is
         | based out of Israel.
         | 
         | iwantmyname, the registrar, is from New Zealand.
         | 
         | They got bought out by Team Internet, which is British.
         | 
         | And who knows where all of them are actually registered.
         | 
         | They are all going to point the finger at each other for the
         | problem. Who do you sue, and where?
        
           | Etherlord87 wrote:
           | You sue the registrar, because you have the contract with the
           | registrar.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | You also sue the others, because they interfered with your
             | contract with the registrar.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | The chain of culpability, in my view as an outsider, goes
           | iwantmyname > BrandShield > Funko Pop.
           | 
           | Funko Pop hired BrandShield, but from what I understand they
           | did so exactly because the latter does all the work without
           | you having to intervene. Kind of like you hiring a lawyer and
           | them using ChatGPT to present the case, full of errors and
           | non-existent sources. The lawyer might have been acting on
           | your behalf, but they didn't really do so according to your
           | intentions and their fuck up isn't your fault. On first view
           | I'd say BrandShield is _a_ culprit here, but can't be so sure
           | about Funko Pop yet.
           | 
           | On the other hand, iwantmyname is _absolutely_ at fault. They
           | took down a client's website without asking or recourse, then
           | sat on their asses. That's who you sue, because they're the
           | ones who ultimately had the power and made the decision that
           | affected itch.io. If iwantmyname wants to sue BrandShield and
           | /or Funk Pop or whatever else in turn, none of your concern.
           | The one's who hurt the business were iwantmyname by not doing
           | due diligence or contacting the client but just automatically
           | bending over.
           | 
           | Now if they should be sued in Britain or New Zealand, that's
           | for the lawyers to know.
           | 
           | In fact, all of this is for the lawyers to figure out. I'm
           | not one. I'm merely expressing what makes logical sense to
           | me, which could be incredibly wrong.
        
             | YetAnotherNick wrote:
             | If you hire the bad lawyer and loose the case, the lawyer
             | won't serve your penalty. If Funko authorizes anyone to
             | represent them, they are responsible.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | You don't necessarily have to sue them in their place of
           | registration if they're doing business elsewhere. "Defending
           | trademark rights" probably counts as that.
        
         | raxxorraxor wrote:
         | Yes, but also you need to bring your legislators to heel. It is
         | entirely their fault.
         | 
         | That you have grifters like brandshield is a symptom. Although
         | you should never employ their lawyers for anything either of
         | course. Make the taint stick to them.
        
       | KingOfCoders wrote:
       | "Phishing report to our registrar, iwantmyname, who ignored our
       | response and just disabled the domain"
       | 
       | One registrar off the list of registrars you wanna use.
        
         | jamil7 wrote:
         | They used to be really good, independent registrar from New
         | Zealand but I think got acquired sometime a few years ago and
         | went down hill.
        
           | BrandiATMuhkuh wrote:
           | Yes that's true. Just yesterday I bought a new domain through
           | them.
           | 
           | I'm surprised about their slowness. Again, 2 days ago I sent
           | a request via their web-form and less than 24h later it was
           | resolved.
           | 
           | Disclosure: I know the founder (Lenz).
        
             | MortyWaves wrote:
             | Is Lenz happy with how he operates his company?
        
               | willvarfar wrote:
               | The GP says they were acquired a few years ago.
               | 
               | So the question should be if Lenz is happy with how those
               | who brought his company are now running it?
               | 
               | Of course that is not the kind of question that a founder
               | should ever answer candidly on the internet :)
        
               | BrandiATMuhkuh wrote:
               | Correct. The company was sold many years ago. So I have
               | no idea if he is happy
        
               | jomar wrote:
               | As noted above, what used to be a cool little Wellington-
               | based company got bought by some offshore conglomerate.
               | Lenz himself left about five years ago.
        
           | conradfr wrote:
           | The same thing happened to Gandi.
        
             | officialchicken wrote:
             | Gandi went sour when the original French company was forced
             | to open a separate company for the US several years before
             | being sold. IIRC it was related EU privacy but they
             | publicly stated it was about credit card processing.
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | interesting, do you have a link to more details on why
               | the split company was needed and how it affected using
               | them?
        
               | KingOfCoders wrote:
               | Didn't know, could you explain how a French company is
               | forced to open a US company because of EU privacy laws?
        
             | Algent wrote:
             | It's crazy how downhill Gandi went in 2 years. Went from
             | decently priced French registar to basically asking for
             | 70EUR a year for a mailbox and lately asked me for over
             | 40EUR to renew a dot dev domain. I ended up transferring
             | all my domains due to this.
        
       | juped wrote:
       | Everyone involved in this is terrible except itch.io; it's a
       | shame litigation, the available method for redressing this, is
       | often avoided due to the high expense.
        
         | zo1 wrote:
         | As a naive and new adult entering the world, I would have
         | assumed that all you need to do is report this to your
         | police/government, and they'll start a case, preliminarily
         | determine that "Yeah, some sort of fraud happened" and then
         | proceed to start a court case against the accused party so that
         | a jury/judge can determine it's validity.
         | 
         | The fact that lawyers and the "lawyer system", in conjunction
         | with prosecutorial offices and the police, has made this
         | expensive and pretty impossible for 99% of people and companies
         | is a huge problem. It basically nullifies the whole point of
         | government as protector of people's rights and enforcer of
         | laws.
        
           | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
           | It's very unlikely that anything criminal has happened here,
           | so government is irrelevant. I'm not even sure we're seeing
           | any malevolence, just rank incompetence.
        
             | runevault wrote:
             | Not Criminal but invalid DMCA takedowns do open you up to
             | lawsuits. I'm curious if both sides (aka the registrar and
             | Funko) are liable or only Funko.
        
               | masklinn wrote:
               | > invalid DMCA takedowns do open you up to lawsuits
               | 
               | Invalid takedowns don't open you up to anything. The only
               | risk to takedowns is misrepresenting the purported owner
               | but that's not the case here and the risk would be from
               | Funko not Itch.
               | 
               | Much of the reason for DMCA abuse is that beyond the
               | notice being assumed legitimate there is basically no
               | risk to the complaining party until they dispute a
               | counter-notification.
               | 
               | Not that this is relevant in this case, as it was not a
               | DMCA takedown. A takedown notice would have been
               | addressed to Itch.
        
             | soulofmischief wrote:
             | Negligence at scale is malevolence.
        
             | zo1 wrote:
             | Maybe not "criminal", sure. But even us thinking "oh it's a
             | civil matter, not criminal one" is something conjured up by
             | the lawyers in conjunction with government. It's such a
             | convenient excuse, basically making it so that you as the
             | injured party need to prove something at your own expense -
             | expense that is directly funneled to the lawyer class.
             | 
             | At the very least what happened here is lying in a
             | commercial context. Arguably something that should be
             | illegal, and sometimes is illegal under the banner of
             | "fraud". Again, the definition of fraud is not obvious
             | (despite them arguing it is super explicit in the laws) and
             | we have to rely on the lawyer priesthood to determine what
             | the "sacred texts" say about it. Maybe even rolling some
             | conjured up lawyer-dice and seeing what the Oracle at the
             | Court says about it after they convene a little "ritual"
             | known as a court meeting or deposition.
        
               | will5421 wrote:
               | You don't have to go through a lawyer, ie represent
               | yourself, afaik.
        
               | jmholla wrote:
               | This is not a good strategy. You're almost guaranteed to
               | lose being pro se against corporate lawyers.
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | This stuff would be civil jurisdiction in most countries. The
           | Internet adds an extra layer of problems: the registrar,
           | complainant etc may be in different countries, making it
           | practically very hard to get anything done.
        
         | Sophira wrote:
         | It feels like Linode did a good job, too.
        
         | TiredOfLife wrote:
         | itch.io removed the fanpage (that didn't break any rules) that
         | caused the takedown.
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | Slight off topic but interesting that the post has similar
       | interaction stats (replies and reposts/quotes) between Twitter
       | and Bluesky except the likes which are 3x higher on the former
       | https://files.catbox.moe/82x7ue.jpeg
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | Interesting - most Bluesky accounts, especially those related
         | to gaming, are reporting higher engagement stats on Bluesky, at
         | least relatively if not absolutely.
        
           | blitzar wrote:
           | My crypto spam scam bot gets far higher engagement on
           | twitter.
        
             | MortyWaves wrote:
             | Thanks for making the internet shittier
        
             | Etheryte wrote:
             | Well of course, your bot is having a wonderful time
             | interacting with other bots. A whole bunch of resources
             | wasted while making everything worse for real humans.
        
               | tbatchelli wrote:
               | This is a fair description of our future. I'm stealing it
        
               | Etheryte wrote:
               | See also: the Dead Internet Theory [0].
               | 
               | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | Oh, they've made it to bluesky now as well, unfortunately.
             | 
             | (Though, if you use a moderation service which flags/hides
             | accounts with AI generated imagery, that's close to 100%
             | effective for catching crypto scam stuff. Apparently, your
             | average crypto scammer just can't resist a bit of AI-
             | generated banner.)
        
             | smitelli wrote:
             | Odd flex but OK.
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | Luckily with Bluesky you can link to a post and everyone can
         | see the replies.
        
           | Retr0id wrote:
           | For now! The bluesky URL contains "itch.io" (their handle),
           | and under atproto, DNS name resolution is actually an
           | integral part of handle resolution. It will start 404ing
           | if/when relevant caches expire.
           | 
           | This one uses the "DID", not the handle, and will not 404: ht
           | tps://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:oy37ivqnriw6nx3lrbcht2u3/po...
           | (cc dang)
           | 
           | Open issue regarding making bsky URLs less fragile while also
           | not looking ugly: https://github.com/bluesky-social/social-
           | app/issues/1221
        
             | peckemys wrote:
             | I think GP comment meant that when you link to a Twitter
             | thread, logged-out users will only see the single post
             | without any replies. On Bluesky, you can see the whole
             | thread.
        
               | Retr0id wrote:
               | Right, and I meant that in the near future you may see no
               | thread at all on bluesky, depending on when the relevant
               | caches expire.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | I don't think it's that surprising; Bluesky is quite big
         | amongst the audience who cares about this sort of thing, and
         | the author isn't a bluetick so will have visibility relatively
         | suppressed on Twitter.
        
         | huhtenberg wrote:
         | BlueSky seems to be far less like-oriented. They aren't just a
         | good metric of engagement there. People read and move on. If it
         | might be helpful to others, they will repost, and that's it.
         | 
         | Besides, with 26K followers on BlueSky vs 173K on Twitter, I'd
         | say the engagement on the former is significantly higher any
         | way.
        
         | gcr wrote:
         | I heard about this incident from a link shared from Bluesky
         | first, which is significant because most of my social circle
         | tends to use twitter
        
       | CobrastanJorji wrote:
       | Question to lawyers: is there a colorable lawsuit against Funko
       | and/or Brand Shield if itch.io can demonstrate quantifiable lost
       | revenue for those N days of being offline?
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | Given that this was apparently a false (and recklessly so,
         | though that's going to be the hard part) report of
         | fraud/phishing and not a DMCA takedown, yeah that sounds like
         | tortious interference.
        
       | slippy wrote:
       | How many other domains were knocked off by this AI reporting?
       | Seems to me that if you make claims that have business
       | repercussions, you need to be suable for fraud and face civil and
       | possible criminal complaints.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | Criminal seems like a stretch (at least for this sort of
         | damaging-a-business stuff), but making false claims can
         | absolutely have all sorts of civil consequences.
        
       | leafo wrote:
       | I'm the one running itch.io, so here's some more context for you:
       | 
       | From what I can tell, some person made a fan page for an existing
       | Funko Pop video game (Funko Fusion), with links to the official
       | site and screenshots of the game. The BrandShield software is
       | probably instructed to eradicate all "unauthorized" use of their
       | trademark, so they sent reports independently to our host and
       | registrar claiming there was "fraud and phishing" going on,
       | likely to cause escalation instead of doing the expected
       | DMCA/cease-and-desist. Because of this, I honestly think they're
       | the malicious actor in all of this. Their website, if you care:
       | https://www.brandshield.com/
       | 
       | About 5 or 6 days ago, I received these reports on our host
       | (Linode) and from our registrar (iwantmyname). I expressed my
       | disappointment in my responses to both of them but told them I
       | had removed the page and disabled the account. Linode confirmed
       | and closed the case. iwantmyname never responded. This evening, I
       | got a downtime alert, and while debugging, I noticed that the
       | domain status had been set to "serverHold" on iwantmyname's
       | domain panel. We have no other abuse reports from iwantmyname
       | other than this one. I'm assuming no one on their end "closed"
       | the ticket, so it went into an automatic system to disable the
       | domain after some number of days.
       | 
       | I've been trying to get in touch with them via their abuse and
       | support emails, but no response likely due to the time of day, so
       | I decided to "escalate" the issue myself on social media.
        
         | seanthemon wrote:
         | man, this shit is ridiculous.. now we can't even make fan
         | pages?
         | 
         | Will you be moving away from this registrar? It seems like it
         | could very easily be abused again.
        
           | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
           | After this, _everyone_ will be moving away from this
           | registrar...
        
             | PostOnce wrote:
             | Not only that, I'm moving a domain to a local registrar so
             | I can get legal redress here if I need to.
             | 
             | Not from iwantmyname, never heard of them, but of course
             | now that I have, I couldn't do business with them in light
             | of the situation.
        
             | npteljes wrote:
             | You'd think, or hope, but GoDaddy and other actors proved
             | over the years that this is not the case. I think that the
             | kind of site most impacted by an event like this are social
             | sites, where if people leave, they might take their
             | networks with them. But a normal b2c service provider just
             | needs to update their PR and prices and business will be
             | back to usual.
        
             | TiredOfLife wrote:
             | And itch.io who removed that page.
        
               | crtasm wrote:
               | >a fan page for an existing Funko Pop video game (Funko
               | Fusion), with links to the official site and screenshots
               | of the game.
               | 
               | I'd expect them to remove that, they're not a host for
               | fan pages.
        
               | SunlitCat wrote:
               | I never understood that urge of people to do "fan pages"
               | (or fan anything, without the permission of the original
               | creator) while at the same time blatantly ripping
               | content.
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | Fan anything has always been at the mercy of the trademark
           | owner.
        
             | seanthemon wrote:
             | there was a time where the internet wasn't a corpo
             | hellscape.
        
               | throw_m239339 wrote:
               | > there was a time where the internet wasn't a corpo
               | hellscape.
               | 
               | DMCA passed in 1998. it was short lived.
        
               | johnisgood wrote:
               | Not that short-lived in practice, because it may have
               | been passed but it was not enforced to oblivion like it
               | is now.
        
               | johnnyanmac wrote:
               | This kind of impersonation/defamation is one of the edge
               | cases where its good to have a DMCA process. You want to
               | quickly take down something like this and then deal with
               | the slow legal stuff over time.
        
               | Kye wrote:
               | They have a DMCA process. As far as I know it only helps
               | in a case like this if they sue Funko or the brand
               | management service. Itch is a small indie operation
               | funded by actual commerce, so might not be able to afford
               | it.
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | Some companies have always been terrible about this. Fan
           | projects involving companies like Nintendo or Take Two
           | Interactive (GTA) are like lawyer bait. Disney has hired
           | lawyers to sue a daycare center that had (clearly unofficial)
           | character art painted on the walls. It's dystopic, but it's
           | the world we live in.
           | 
           | I didn't really expect Funko or 10:10 Games to be like that,
           | but then again I didn't expect anyone would like Funko enough
           | to make a fan page about their dolls.
           | 
           | Other companies allow fans to do pretty much whatever you
           | want with their IP as long as you don't turn it into (too
           | much of) a business. Sega has even hired a fan for their
           | remasters rather than DMCA his project into oblivion.
           | 
           | When companies do this, I interpret this as the company
           | giving a clear message: "don't be a fan of our work or we may
           | apply legal pressure".
        
             | CM30 wrote:
             | Just gonna point out that the Nintendo going after fanworks
             | bit is a tad blown out of proportion, especially online.
             | They're definitely known for being way too heavy handed
             | (especially compared to the likes of Sega), but they're not
             | exactly going after every fan project they see on the
             | internet. Large sites whose entire purpose is to host fan
             | games and mods for the Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, etc series
             | have been up for decades without any issues, and most mods
             | and homebrew projects for consoles older than the Wii U or
             | Switch are going fine.
             | 
             | Unless a project is going viral in the media, raking up in
             | a significant amount of money via a paywall or is directly
             | competing with a current game, the chances of it getting
             | shut down are incredibly low.
        
               | multimoon wrote:
               | Nintendo just finished killing both major switch
               | emulators.
        
               | mrguyorama wrote:
               | Nintendo also is responsible for keeping Dolphin off of
               | Steam. Dolphin wanted to get on steam for improved steam
               | deck integration and Valve reached out to Nintendo who
               | said, essentially : Lol fuck no we will ruin your life
               | 
               | The courts have told Nintendo numerous times that they
               | are in the wrong in this behavior and outlook. They have
               | no legal means to keep Dolphin off Steam and it is a
               | matter of judicial record that emulators are not an
               | infringement of your IP on their own. Nintendo doesn't
               | care and openly discusses their intent to make you suffer
               | through lawfare. A just system would smack them down with
               | a vexatious litigant label, but our system gives
               | businesses infinite benefit of the doubt.
        
               | gcr wrote:
               | Not true. Nintendo is notoriously litigious in the fan
               | games community.
        
             | willis936 wrote:
             | It's just so surprisingly tone deaf when things like this
             | are done by companies that exist purely within the goodwill
             | of their customers. Nothing that funko brings to the table
             | has inherent value. If they have any world outlook other
             | than to love their customers as much as they can, then they
             | will fail in a time measured in quarters.
        
               | jeroenhd wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure Funko used their service in good faith
               | and didn't know it's based on over-aggressive AI
               | bullshit. They're still on the hook for picking a bad
               | company to partner with, but I don't think they intended
               | to take down the entire domain.
        
               | Rotundo wrote:
               | I don't see a large message on the Funko site with a
               | profuse apology for taking down Itchio. This indicates to
               | me they fully endorse their action and are not willing to
               | make amends.
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | I noticed that iwantmyname has very little presence on social
         | media: no bluesky account and a twitter account that posts once
         | or twice a year. That wouldn't necessarily be a problem if they
         | responded to emergencies like this promptly, but they clearly
         | _don 't_ so it _is_.
         | 
         | I also wonder if their "automatically disable" policy takes
         | size/importance of site into account. Is this how they would
         | treat all their domain owners, regardless of significance?
        
           | clarionbell wrote:
           | The significant ones have lawyer writing them letters.
        
         | antihero wrote:
         | Can you transfer the domain out?
        
           | leafo wrote:
           | Unfortunately the domain has a hold placed on it by the
           | registrar, so I believe transferring is disabled. I also
           | wouldn't want to risk doing a transfer at an hour when their
           | staff aren't available to help with the current issue.
        
         | duggan wrote:
         | iwantmyname was bought out by a conglomerate, "Team
         | Internet[1]", a few years ago.
         | 
         | Prices went up, service went down. I'd recommend moving your
         | domains when you can (Porkbun have been good, though I haven't
         | had any incidents like this).
         | 
         | Best of luck!
         | 
         | 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Internet
        
           | spondyl wrote:
           | Oh damn, I didn't know this!
           | 
           | I've used their services for ages and even got to briefly
           | meet the founders once in Wellington who gave a talk on
           | Erlang.
           | 
           | Ah well, while it sucks that the good times may be over, I'm
           | glad the founders got their exit :)
        
             | kaoD wrote:
             | > I'm glad the founders got their exit
             | 
             | I'm not.
             | 
             | I mean, I am happy for them but this concept of growing a
             | business to an exit is not going well for society as a
             | whole (at least the exits that are in my areas of interest,
             | so I assume it extrapolates to all exits).
             | 
             | Every single business that gets bought out gets instantly
             | enshittified in one way or another, always to the detriment
             | of the customer. Depending on how entrenched it was it
             | takes a different amount of time for people to move on as
             | the new shareholders extract its economical value, but it
             | almost always destroys societal value in the process as the
             | company becomes a shadow of its former self (and hopefully
             | dies, leaving way for the cycle to start again).
             | 
             | I wish there was a way for founders to get rich without the
             | need for an exit, so the business could keep running... but
             | I guess ruthless enshittification is the only way to get
             | rich?
             | 
             | Apologies for the tangent, this is something that's been
             | bouncing in my mind for a while...
        
               | kiba wrote:
               | Sell it to the employees? It won't be lucrative to
               | selling it to someone with more cash than sense, but it
               | may be more likely to preserve the value. There's no
               | guarantee of course, and there's so little experience
               | societal wide in running an employee co-op.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | There are a few employee co-ops, but I don't know how
               | good they are. Over here in the UK we have the Co-op[0],
               | which is a national chain of small local shops. It's a
               | consumer co-operative rather than a workers' cooperative,
               | though. I don't know how well it works, or what its
               | challenges are, but it definitely exists.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.co-operative.coop
        
               | Angostura wrote:
               | Don't forget John Lewis/Waitrose and the excellent Richer
               | Sounds:
               | 
               | Richer Sounds boss in PS3.5m staff giveaway
               | https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48269171
        
               | bluehatbrit wrote:
               | The Co-op (referred to in [0]) is also a bank, funeral
               | directors, insurer, and solicitor! They're really quite
               | successful to be honest.
               | 
               | Nationwide is another example of a successful cooperative
               | as well (large UK bank, particularly in the mortgage
               | space). They're customer and employee owned I believe, my
               | wife and I got PS200 last year as a profit share for
               | being customers.
               | 
               | I'm a huge fan of the model, but it's difficult to get
               | going. I think they're also more expensive to run as
               | their operations tend to be a little more complex.
        
               | fallingknife wrote:
               | Every time that happens it just makes an opportunity for
               | someone else to start a new competitor
        
               | Nullabillity wrote:
               | It's absolutely tiresome having to keep up with that rat
               | race for _everything_. And if that principle actually
               | worked then enshittification wouldn 't be profitable to
               | engage in to begin with.
        
               | justsomehnguy wrote:
               | > I mean, I am happy for them but this concept of growing
               | a business to an exit is not going well for society as a
               | whole
               | 
               | The last thing I want is to be a 70 y/o still supporting
               | a registrar. Especially considering the margins.
        
               | dartos wrote:
               | You can be responsible with an exit and sell to someone
               | you'd believe will keep the company's mission.
        
               | justsomehnguy wrote:
               | And what if I can't find anyone? And what if they do 180
               | a week later?
               | 
               | And it's not like running a registrar is something what
               | can even have a mission other than earning money.
        
               | dartos wrote:
               | > And what if I can't find anyone?
               | 
               | I would honestly be surprised if that was the case, but
               | if you really tried, then you tried.
               | 
               | You pick who you'd hope would continue the mission OR you
               | try to sell to employees.
               | 
               | > And what if they do 180 a week later?
               | 
               | Then you picked wrong, but the risk of picking wrong is
               | not a good reason to not try to pick correctly.
        
               | fwip wrote:
               | You can retire or quit, like a normal person. I'm sure
               | you can find a new CEO.
        
               | popcalc wrote:
               | The Alands Island .AX TLD allows anyone to be their own
               | registrar for free. Only 20euro/year for domains.
        
               | babuskov wrote:
               | Agreed. Promising stuff like "Hey we built this because
               | everything else is bad" and then years later selling it
               | to a company that turns it bad is somehow even worse than
               | classic bait and switch.
        
               | travisgriggs wrote:
               | Bonus points for using "enshittified".
        
               | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
               | I know that I'm basically being trollbait (around here),
               | by saying this, but I personally believe that _the very
               | existence_ of an  "exit plan" is a problem.
               | 
               | A business is supposed to be an ongoing, perpetual
               | enterprise. Maybe it grows, maybe it stays the same, but
               | it isn't something that should (in my opinion) be
               | designed as a product, in itself, with a "sell by" date.
               | If it gets brought up, then that's [maybe] good, but it
               | shouldn't actually be in the business plan. It's just a
               | random lifecycle event. We can plan to be ready for it,
               | but it shouldn't be a corporate goal.
               | 
               | It's quite possible to do that. I worked for nearly 27
               | years, for a company that is over 100 years old. I think
               | the world's oldest company is over 1,400 years old, and
               | just got brought out, for the first time, about 10 years
               | ago.
        
             | duggan wrote:
             | Yeah I was a fan, had every domain with them that I could!
             | But once they were acquired their .org renewal prices just
             | did not make sense any more, and they were missing some
             | functionality that I thought was crucial and didn't seem
             | inclined to add it (can't remember what it was now, maybe
             | MFA).
             | 
             | Domains are like car insurance - there's no reward for
             | loyalty, so makes sense to shop around come renewal time.
        
           | raverbashing wrote:
           | Pro-tip: raise your prices before you need to sell your
           | service to cover expenses
        
             | johnnyanmac wrote:
             | https://domainincite.com/24614-centralnic-to-
             | pay-3-4-million...
             | 
             | I appreciated the indie feel as well, but I can't blame
             | someone for selling out to the tune of 7 figures when the
             | opportunity arises.
        
               | jen729w wrote:
               | I see you're being downvoted on Hacker News for what
               | appears to be an expression of support for founders
               | selling out for millions of dollars.
               | 
               | We have arrived at peak hypocrisy.
        
               | foobarchu wrote:
               | HN is just a news aggregator. Being a participant does
               | not mean one agrees with YCombinator's business
               | practices, nor does it imply any other requisite
               | opinions.
               | 
               | So I don't see the hypocrisy
        
           | thomasfromcdnjs wrote:
           | aw I've always loved iwantmyname, I haven't noticed any
           | issues other than the price increases.
           | 
           | Though it was the indie/personal feel they had as a
           | registrar, I might look for alternatives.
        
           | betteryet wrote:
           | Same thing with Gandi, which is a shame. Domain renewal price
           | silently went up 3x or so last year after getting acquired.
        
             | bambax wrote:
             | Yes it's despicable. I'm moving my domains from Gandi one
             | at a time and the cost is 4 times less!!
        
             | robin_reala wrote:
             | In the same way that "Don't be evil" has disappeared,
             | Gandi's "No bullshit!" is no longer a thing.
        
             | kmlx wrote:
             | does anyone here use cloudflare as a registrar?
             | 
             | i'm interested in any potential negatives.
        
               | thomasfortes wrote:
               | You're stuck with cloudflare nameservers1, so if you want
               | to change nameservers you need to transfer them to other
               | registrar, how much of a deal breaker this is is up to
               | you, to me is project dependent.
               | 
               | 1. Section 6.1 of https://www.cloudflare.com/domain-
               | registration-agreement/
        
               | red-iron-pine wrote:
               | > _6.1 Nameservers. Registrant agrees to use Cloudflare's
               | nameservers. REGISTRANT ACKNOWLEDGES AND AGREES THAT IT
               | MAY NOT CHANGE THE NAMESERVERS ON THE REGISTRAR SERVICES,
               | AND THAT IT MUST TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY REGISTRAR IF
               | IT WISHES TO CHANGE NAMESERVERS._
               | 
               | there are very few parts of that contract in all caps,
               | but that's one of them :/
        
               | technotarek wrote:
               | I've got about twenty domains listed with them. No
               | problems after 2-3 years, but I do wonder whether it's a
               | good idea to use the same vendor for DNS and domain
               | registration.
        
               | indigodaddy wrote:
               | Normally a registrar isn't going to have top tier DNS
               | infra so you may as well separate, yes. Exceptions might
               | be CF/Google/AWS/DO, but personally I don't like to use
               | the big guns as registrars in any case. I use Namesilo
               | and never had any issues but on the other hand have never
               | run into any of these sorts of issues either..
        
               | seanwilson wrote:
               | I've helped move a few domains from Gandi to Cloudflare.
               | The move was relatively straightforward (couldn't get the
               | Gandi records export to import into Cloudflare so had to
               | do it manually...), and the new domain and renewal prices
               | are lower.
               | 
               | To replace Gandi email (that Gandi went from free to
               | ramping up the pricing for when they were taken over),
               | Cloudflare offer email forwarding so you can receive
               | incoming mail from a custom domain to e.g. a gmail
               | account, and for sending mail you can pair this with a
               | custom SMTP service like https://www.smtp2go.com (1000
               | emails/month on the free tier).
               | 
               | Apart from that, DNS is something I barely touch for
               | years sometimes so I don't find much difference between
               | registrars beside their pricing and how much you can
               | trust them.
               | 
               | Being able to point your Cloudflare nameserver records
               | would be nice though, so worst case you'd need to move
               | everything if another registrar had some services you
               | were interested in? Would be curious to know more about
               | how common this scenario comes up and why.
        
               | atkailash wrote:
               | You should check out something like DNSControl. Makes
               | switching or having multiple easy. I have mine going to a
               | bind zone file and cloudflare, and use the bind file for
               | Unbound
        
               | gregoryl wrote:
               | FYI, you are hellbanned (your comments are auto [dead],
               | very few people will see them). Email hn@ycombinator.com
               | to fix it :)
        
               | xnyanta wrote:
               | I am happily using them for all of my domains they
               | support. The problem with Cloudflare registrar is that
               | they flat out don't support many domains/tlds.
        
             | colejohnson66 wrote:
             | Check out Porkbun.
             | 
             | https://porkbun.com/
        
               | bovermyer wrote:
               | How is Porkbun compared to Namecheap?
        
               | no_wizard wrote:
               | Porkbun is best on the market at this point.
               | 
               | Namecheap I find is less easier to use and sometimes
               | higher cost over time. I also haven't had reliable domain
               | renewal service from them when I used them.
               | 
               | Granted this is all a few years back. I was at Cloudflare
               | until this year when I switched to Porkbun and I've been
               | very happy
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | Why'd you switch away from Cloudflare['s registrar]?
        
               | no_wizard wrote:
               | Nameserver lock in. While I use Cloudflare right now for
               | most things, I value the decoupling. Cheap way to make
               | sure that my services aren't in total control of my
               | domain.
        
               | pengaru wrote:
               | I tried porkbun after comments like yours when one of my
               | domains needed renewal, but had to transfer out after one
               | year when their payment gateway refused to work and was
               | very poorly handling the situation while my domain risked
               | expiration.
               | 
               | dynadot.com has been superior in my experience.
        
               | qingcharles wrote:
               | I use Spaceship now for everything, which is actually
               | Namecheap but cheaper.
        
               | username135 wrote:
               | I like namecheap. It serves its purpose.
        
             | funkdude wrote:
             | Gandi's prices rose, which sucks, but they were great when
             | I had a dispute with AFNIC over a blocked domain. They won
             | brownie points with that.
        
           | FunnyLookinHat wrote:
           | Came here to recommend Porkbun - I've had great experience
           | with them and so have all of the friends and family I've
           | recommended.
        
           | donohoe wrote:
           | +1 for Porkbun
        
             | internet101010 wrote:
             | After so many people in this thread recommended them I
             | decided to make the switch from hover. Their renewal rates
             | have gotten wild.
        
           | esskay wrote:
           | Another vote for porkbun here. By far one of the best
           | registrars out there right now.
        
         | RestartKernel wrote:
         | This issue aside, thanks for doing what you do. I was kind of
         | expecting Itch to get sold to some holdings or casino company
         | at some point, as good things tend to go, but I've been happily
         | surprised to see it mature independently throughout the years.
        
           | Tepix wrote:
           | I agree itch.io is awesome!
           | 
           | Edit: And i'm happy to see that it's working again as of
           | 2024-12-09 12:27 UTC+1
        
             | raxxorraxor wrote:
             | And compared to that brandshield users should be branded by
             | their business practices. Also the hoster as well.
             | 
             | Seems to be a difficult time for hosters and also again a
             | demonstration that copyright law is deeply flawed, even if
             | using stolen assets is a rising problem.
        
               | saghm wrote:
               | I don't disagree that copyright law is deeply flawed, but
               | even with the current law, it seems like this situation
               | could easily have been avoided. The issue is one
               | malicious private company (Brandshield) taking advantage
               | of the negligence of another private company (the
               | registrar) by claiming that a site was being used for
               | "fraud and phishing". If anything, the parent comment
               | from the person running the site makes me think that the
               | situation would have been _less_ messed up if Brandshield
               | had correctly asked for the offending copyrighted content
               | to be taken down rather than falsely alleging something
               | more severe. I understand that Brandshield probably has
               | been incentivized to act this way due to copyright law,
               | but I'd argue that even reasonable laws will sometimes
               | cause bad actors to try to take advantage of things, and
               | the easiest way to fight back against this isn't to try
               | to change laws to avoid this but for non-malicious
               | entities like the registrar not to allow their customers
               | to get exploited by this sort of behavior.
               | 
               | Unfortunately, domain registration is an industry with so
               | many of its own problems that I'm not sure "vote with
               | your wallet" would be an effective strategy for changing
               | things here. I honestly wonder if domain registration
               | might be the more fruitful target for legislation
               | protecting customers if the goal is specifically to avoid
               | situations like this one, but even as someone who's
               | usually unabashedly in favor of consumer protection
               | regulations, I can't say I have a high degree of
               | confidence that any changes here would be done
               | effectively.
        
               | raxxorraxor wrote:
               | A bad law is bad if it leads to injustice even beyond its
               | original scope. We have seen numerous problems with DMCA
               | abuse and copyright strikes in other forms. We have
               | patent trolling and this abuse artificially feds a whole
               | industry of dubious lawyers. I think this is not even a
               | small problem and all these factors combined does make it
               | a bad law, even if it would still protect innovation like
               | it once was to meant to do, which is questionable as
               | well.
               | 
               | Of course services like the registrar need protection
               | here too. And certain false copyright claims probably
               | need consequences as well. The legal industry servers no
               | function here.
               | 
               | Also, it would be legally trivial to make the user
               | accountable for the offense, not the whole of itch.io.
               | Sure, there would be problems here as well, but there is
               | not large barrier to not have a parasitic legal industry
               | and have those responsible that actually commit the
               | offense.
               | 
               | The problem of enforcement cannot be put on the back of
               | the platform itself.
        
               | salawat wrote:
               | The platform will always be preferentially targeted
               | because the larger you are the more you have to lose, the
               | more likely it is you actualy have assets to go after if
               | you don't deal with the alleged noncompliance.
               | 
               | How have y'all not realized that's how all this works?
               | 
               | It's why DNS is an anti-feature. As long as registrar's
               | exist, it'll be an active lever utilized for basic
               | deplatforming. Until everyone can host their own stuff,
               | and networking is de-hub-and-spoked, this type of
               | behavior will continue.
        
               | registeredcorn wrote:
               | >the easiest way to fight back against this isn't to try
               | to change laws to avoid this but for non-malicious
               | entities like the registrar not to allow their customers
               | to get exploited by this sort of behavior.
               | 
               | Easiest? Perhaps. _Nothing_ around law is particularly
               | easy (except breaking it, of course!) :) So, not altering
               | existing laws, or not making new ones, would absolutely
               | be the easiest method to that desired outcome. Many
               | things would be easier to do if they were simply done how
               | they were described, in a manner in which they were
               | excepted, under the terms which they were agreed to.
               | However, can we expect that a _lack_ of laws
               | /codes/statutes could ever result in _effective or
               | consistent_ behavior? Sadly, no. At least, not based upon
               | historical experience. Perhaps the disposition of man
               | will change one day - who knows what the future holds,
               | but God!
               | 
               | Negligence is a thing that is bred in indifference and
               | grown through a lack of consequence. Law and reform is
               | the sole remedy.
               | 
               | Consider this: It would be far, far safer _and_ more
               | profitable for owners, employees, and customers of
               | restaurants if the restaurant kept their cooking areas
               | clean and tidy. Yet, even with unannounced and routine
               | health inspections, various licensing requirements,
               | annual training  & education certifications, and massive
               | fines...in spite of all of that, absurdly high numbers
               | owners can't meet the _bare minimum_. People still
               | somehow die from unsanitary food every year!
               | 
               | The best we can do then to combat the disposition of
               | disconnected employees, and the blase, checked-out
               | business owners is to crush their skull. It is a judicial
               | vengeance, a constant protector for all the people who
               | had been abused unfairly; the ones who were discounted as
               | "unimportant nobodies". Law is what gives the common man
               | a temporary illusion of equal treatment. And when that
               | illusion is chipped and broken from time-to-time, well,
               | at least we can put another head up on the spike outside
               | our walls.
               | 
               | It's certainly not quick, or easy, or even
               | preventative(!), but it is the kind of response that is
               | owed to the victims of incompetence and indolence.
        
         | mort96 wrote:
         | That's extremely disappointing from iwantmyname. While I
         | haven't used it, it was always on my mind as a potential
         | registrar when buying a domain. I think I'll have to
         | reconsider.
        
         | CaptainFever wrote:
         | I really wish BrandShield didn't use AI as a marketing term. It
         | just looks like it's doing a generic ctrl-F on webpages?
         | 
         | Then things like this happen, and people think "ooh AI is bad,
         | the bubble must burst" when this has nothing to do with that in
         | the first place, and the real issue was that they sent a
         | "fraud/phishing report" rather than a "trademark infringement"
         | report.
         | 
         | Then I also wish that people who knew better, that this really
         | has nothing to do with AI (like, this is obviously not
         | autonomously making decisions any more than a regular program
         | is), to stop blindly parroting and blaming it as a way to get
         | more clicks, support and rage.
        
           | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
           | I fear that ship has already sailed. I think the grifters and
           | scammers have already abused the term enough that even decent
           | uses of it are now tainted. I _know_ that the two aren 't
           | strictly the same, but I would suggest using "Machine
           | Learning" instead, which I think has more respectable
           | connotations.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | AS IS TRADITION.
             | 
             | (After the previous AI bubble, no-one mentioned the dread
             | term for about 20 years, instead using the safely ultra-
             | broad umbrella term.)
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | I mean, whether this has anything to do with AI or not (I'd
           | buy that they're using LLMs to write abuse letters or
           | similar) it fits very nicely into the general pattern of AI
           | breaking the internet through an endless deluge of worthless
           | misleading spam. So, perhaps call it honorary AI?
        
           | CaptainFever wrote:
           | It's possible they were using LLMs (or even just traditional
           | ML algorithms) to choose if a certain webpage was
           | fraud/phishing instead of mere trademark infringement,
           | though. In this case it makes sense that one would be angry
           | that a sapient being didn't first check if the report was
           | accurate before sending it off.
        
             | acka wrote:
             | More than the hypothetical risk of Earth being consumed by
             | a paperclip-making machine, I believe the real and present
             | danger in the use of ML and AI technology lies in humans
             | making irresponsible decisions about where and how to apply
             | these technologies.
             | 
             | For example, in my country, we are still dealing with the
             | fallout from a decision made over a decade ago by the Tax
             | Department. They used a poorly designed ML algorithm to
             | screen applicants claiming social benefits for fraudulent
             | activity. This led to several public inquiries and even
             | contributed to the collapse of a government coalition. Tens
             | of thousands of people are still suffering from being
             | wrongly labeled as fraudulent, facing hefty fines and being
             | forced to repay so-called fraudulent benefits.
        
               | CaptainFever wrote:
               | Perhaps in certain cases requiring someone to sign off,
               | and take the blame if anything happens, would help
               | alleviate this problem. Much like how engineers need to
               | sign off on construction plans.
               | 
               | (Layman here, obviously.)
        
               | wholinator2 wrote:
               | Hello, I'm legitimately trying to be helpful. I would
               | look at the comma rules for English again. I used to just
               | pepper them around sentences all willy-nilly until my
               | mother beat it out of me (not literally). Incorrect comma
               | usage made your comment _very_ hard to read. I believe
               | you mean
               | 
               | Perhaps in certain cases,                  Requiring
               | someone to sign off and take the blame if anything
               | happens would help alleviate this problem.
               | 
               | Instead of
               | 
               | Perhaps in certain cases requiring someone to sign off
               | And take the blame if anything happens
               | 
               | Would alleviate this problem
        
               | jcranmer wrote:
               | The comment you are replying to is using commas
               | correctly: it's partitioning off a clause of the sentence
               | as a side phrase that can be removed, and the resulting
               | sentence is a fully grammatically-correct sentence. If
               | you really hate commas, you can replace the commas here
               | with parentheses, but honestly, I prefer the commas here.
        
               | BalinKing wrote:
               | I agree with the parent that in formal written English,
               | the comma would be incorrect--cf. the "In compound
               | predicates" section in [0]. But I disagree that the
               | sentence is hard to parse as a result, and I doubt many
               | would think twice about it given that we're on an
               | informal internet message board.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.grammarly.com/blog/punctuation-
               | capitalization/co...
        
               | jerf wrote:
               | If the legal system is not itself either fundamentally
               | corrupted or completely razzle-dazzled by the AI hype...
               | and I mean those as serious clauses that are at least
               | somewhat in question... then there are going to be some
               | very disappointed people losing a lot of money or even
               | going to jail when they find out that as far as the legal
               | system is concerned, there already _is_ legally speaking
               | some person or entity composed of persons (a corporation)
               | responsible for these actions, and it is _already_ not
               | actually legally possible to act like a bull in a china
               | shop and then cover it over by just pointing to your
               | internal AI and disclaiming all responsibility.
               | 
               | The legal system already acts that way when the issue is
               | in its own wheelhouse: https://www.reuters.com/legal/new-
               | york-lawyers-sanctioned-us... The lawyers did not escape
               | by just chuckling in amusement, throwing up their hands,
               | and saying "AIs! Amimrite?"
               | 
               | The system is slow and the legal tests haven't happened
               | yet but personally I see no reason to believe that the
               | legal system isn't going to decide that "the AI" never
               | does anything and that "the AI did it!" will provide
               | absolutely zero cover for any action or liability. If
               | anything it'll be negative as hooking an AI directly up
               | to some action and then providing no human oversight will
               | come to be _ipso facto_ negligence.
               | 
               | I actually consider this one of the more subtle reasons
               | this AI bubble is substantially overblown. The idea of
               | this bubble is that AI will just replace humans
               | wholesale, huzzah, cost savings galore! But if companies
               | program things like, say, customer support with AIs, and
               | can then just deploy their wildest fantasies straight
               | into AIs with no concern about humans being in the loop
               | and turning whistleblower or anything, like, making it
               | literally impossible to contact humans, making it
               | literally impossible to get solutions, and so forth, and
               | if customers push these AIs to give false or dangerous
               | solutions, or agree to certain bargains or whathaveyou,
               | and the end result is you trade lots of expensive support
               | calls for a company-ending class-action lawsuit, the
               | utility of buying the AI services to replace your support
               | staff sharply goes down. Not necessarily to zero. Doesn't
               | have to go to zero. It just makes the idea that you're
               | going to replace your support staff with a couple dozen
               | graphics cards a much more incremental advantage rather
               | than a multiplicative advantage, but the bubble is priced
               | like it's hugely multiplicative.
        
               | rjmunro wrote:
               | Please say something like "here in [insert country
               | name]", or "back home in [insert country name]" intead of
               | "in my country", otherwise we have no idea what you are
               | talking about.
        
               | acka wrote:
               | Unfortunately I can no longer edit my original comment.
               | It is about the so-called "Toeslagenaffaire" (childcare
               | benefits scandal)[1] in the Netherlands.
               | 
               | Also, here is a blog post[2] warning about the improper
               | use of algorithmic enforcement tools like the one that
               | was used in this scandal.
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefit
               | s_scand...
               | 
               | [2] https://eulawenforcement.com/?p=7941
        
               | stevoski wrote:
               | They're talking about Australia, and the robodebt scheme.
               | 
               | Read the Wikipedia article and you'll probably feel
               | outraged.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robodebt_scheme
        
               | shakna wrote:
               | Unfortunately it seems that the thinking is more
               | farspread, and this was the Netherlands [0].
               | 
               | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42365837
        
           | johnnyanmac wrote:
           | > and people think "ooh AI is bad, the bubble must burst"
           | when this has nothing to do with that in the first place
           | 
           | That haphazard branding and parroting is exactly why the
           | bubble needs to burst. Bubbles bursting take out the gritters
           | and rarely actually kills off all the innovation in the scene
           | (it kills a lot, though. I'm not trying to dismiss that).
        
             | kombookcha wrote:
             | Exactly this, if you give a hoot about actual useful
             | applications for AI, there is a great need to clear out all
             | the grifters and scammers attracted by the initial hype
             | cycle.
        
           | pdpi wrote:
           | I find that businesses that bill themselves as ${TOOL}-users
           | instead of ${PROBLEM}-solvers are, as a general rule,
           | problematic. I couldn't possibly care any less whether a
           | product is built on AI or a clever switch statement or a
           | bazillion little gnomes doing the work by hand. I care that
           | it solves a problem.
           | 
           | AI does need to die. Not so much because LLMs are bad, but
           | rather because, like "big data" and "blockchain" and many
           | other buzzwordy tools before it, it is a solution looking for
           | a problem.
        
             | 7thaccount wrote:
             | The AI hype is annoying in my field as well. AI can have
             | its uses, but we already figured out where to use it in my
             | field ages ago. That doesn't stop people from hyping
             | nothing though.
        
             | CobrastanJorji wrote:
             | Yes. If your business solves a real customer problem and
             | uses "blockchain" to do it, that's great, but you should
             | describe yourself as a tool to solve the problem. If you
             | mention blockchain on the homepage of your product at all,
             | it should be treated with suspicious. It's a sign that
             | you're speaking to investors and fools and not to savvy
             | customers.
             | 
             | One exception: personal projects. "This is an NES emulator
             | that is built in Rust, and it uses Rust because I wanted to
             | learn Rust" is a perfectly good description of a project
             | (but not a business).
        
               | pdpi wrote:
               | > This is an NES emulator that is built in Rust, and it
               | uses Rust because I wanted to learn Rust
               | 
               | Arguably, in this scenario, learning rust is the
               | "business need" and the NES emulator is the tool :)
               | 
               | But yeah, exactly. A blockchain is, technically, just a
               | content-addressable linked list. A Merkle tree is the
               | same, as a tree. Git's core data structure is a DAG
               | version of this. These things are _useful_. Yet nobody
               | calls Git  "blockchain technology", because what we all
               | care about is Git's value as a version control tool.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | When AI is being used as a cover for the bad/questionable
           | behavior the company was already doing then there is no
           | bubble to burst. The performance of the "AI" doesn't matter,
           | only that it throws up a smoke shield in front of the company
           | when people call to complain about the abuse.
        
         | rpastuszak wrote:
         | Is it possible/worth to hold them financially accountable for
         | this? (them being IWMN or BrandShield)
        
         | npteljes wrote:
         | Brandshield is bad for overreacting, and iwantmyname is very
         | bad for hosting such a crucial infrastructure, and having not
         | responded to a paying customer with a good track record. I
         | honestly don't think time of day matters, as long as the nature
         | of the service is that it's provided and used 24/7, support
         | staff should also be there 24/7.
        
         | hresvelgr wrote:
         | It's surprising that this happened at all. Isn't it in most
         | business's best interests to be aware of their most high-
         | profile customers? If this was an automatic process, it's
         | pretty disappointing that it even occurred. If I was running a
         | SaaS, I'd probably want to mark my important accounts so an
         | actual human has to investigate any raised alerts instead of
         | being dealt with by a cron.
        
           | cipheredStones wrote:
           | Something being in a business's best interests is very far
           | from a guarantee that it'll happen.
           | 
           | I've worked on a team in a household-name big tech company
           | where our mission was almost exactly "make sure we're not
           | blowing up our most important customers for no reason". It's
           | not nearly as easy as it sounds: defining who's important is
           | hard, and defining what should and shouldn't be allowed is
           | hard, and then implementing that all correctly and avoiding
           | drift over time is tricky too.
        
             | Scramblejams wrote:
             | Sounds like you could write a series of blog posts I'd like
             | to read!
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Domain names themselves are a loss leader for registrars.
           | They make money by upselling customers on hosting, email,
           | certificates, analytics etc. So if you are just paying a
           | couple dollars a year for a domain name and nothing else,
           | your profile doesn't really matter. You are in the lowest
           | tier of customers.
        
             | jeremyjh wrote:
             | It still matters who your customer is if your mistreatment
             | of them drags your own brand name through the mud in a
             | front page Hacker News story.
        
         | breakingcups wrote:
         | Filing false reports like this should count as fraud.
        
           | concerndc1tizen wrote:
           | I.e. as a crime rather than just a civic tort? I agree.
        
             | pdpi wrote:
             | As general rule, I find that sort of thing to be an over-
             | reaction, but submitting a complaint for phishing instead
             | of a plain old DMCA takedown does warrant it.
        
           | terminalbraid wrote:
           | I'm in the outraged crowd and there should be pretty serious
           | consequences, but it is important in the interest of justice
           | to differentiate between fraud, negligence, and gross
           | incompetence.
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | As long as you have some automated AI bot sent all the
             | reports. It's never fraud, you couldn't have known it would
             | do that.
        
               | babuskov wrote:
               | Looks like AI is becoming a perfect excuse to do whatever
               | you like.
               | 
               | It's like having a dangerous dog that usually doesn't
               | bite, but you really cannot know if it will change its
               | mind one day. Do you just let such dog walk the streets
               | without owner supervision?
        
               | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
               | > It's like having a dangerous dog that usually doesn't
               | bite, but you really cannot know if it will change its
               | mind one day.
               | 
               | In other words, a pit bull.
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | Which is why anyone deploying AI solutions should be held
               | accountable for whatever the AI does, as if they had done
               | it personally and intentionally.
               | 
               | It's irresponsible to deploy AI if you don't know what it
               | will do, especially when there are actual stakes.
               | 
               | Maybe we'll have less AI bullshit then.
        
             | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
             | Whilst I agree in principle that deliberate disruption of
             | other people's websites/serivces should be more harshly
             | punished, I don't think it's particularly practical.
             | There's so many ways that modern companies can obfuscate
             | the reasoning behind what they do, so I've come to the
             | conclusion that if they're causing harm to someone else,
             | then they should be punished/made to pay no matter their
             | excuse.
             | 
             | If companies hide behind negligence/incompetence, then we
             | need to make it costly for them to be
             | negligent/incompetent.
        
             | joquarky wrote:
             | Discerning intent is a waste of time and resources in cases
             | like this.
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | Isn't it already classed as perjury?
        
             | plorkyeran wrote:
             | No, the perjury aspect of a DMCA takedown (which isn't even
             | applicable here as that's not what they did) is if you
             | don't actually represent the person that you claim to be
             | filing a takedown on behalf of.
        
           | kevingadd wrote:
           | It does but there's no actual way to get legal recourse for
           | false DMCA notices or anything similar. The legal system is
           | stacked for the abusers to have their way and the victims to
           | have no recourse, regardless of how egregious the abuse is.
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | >Filing false reports like this should count as fraud.
           | 
           | It does, but they never mess with anyone with big enough
           | pockets to get sued for it.
        
         | jaromiru wrote:
         | Hey, perhaps you can mediate the impact by providing an
         | alternate way to access the site (IP, alternative domain) and
         | posting it somewhere people will see it (bsky, here, ...)?
         | Realistically , this may take days to resolve.
        
         | egorfine wrote:
         | > I had removed the page and disabled the account
         | 
         | Did this account violate your ToS or the actual law? While I
         | totally understand where are you coming from and I would
         | probably be forced to do the same, I still tend to believe that
         | closing a fan account is exactly the same thing that your
         | registrar did to you.
        
           | 0x073 wrote:
           | It's not optimal, but he must choose between every published
           | game there and one fanpage.
           | 
           | Besides that, there are so many websites with copyright
           | content that never changes the domains, is just the domain
           | registration bad or why they just disabled the domain?
        
             | egorfine wrote:
             | _It 's not optimal, but the registrar had to choose between
             | every registered domain there and one business._
             | 
             | But yes, no doubt, that system is broken and the registrar
             | should have known better.
        
               | 0x073 wrote:
               | I don't know the company size, but as a paying customer I
               | expect them better support and more time.
               | 
               | If they have a customer like steam would they just cut
               | off the domain? Probably not.
               | 
               | Other domain registrations would just ignored this and
               | nothing would happened.
        
               | egorfine wrote:
               | > I expect them better support
               | 
               | I expect total ignorance from a typical domain registrar.
               | 
               | > If they have a customer like steam would they just cut
               | off the domain? Probably not.
               | 
               | Take a look who is they registrar and then look their
               | prices up.
               | 
               | > Other domain registrations would just ignored this and
               | nothing would happened
               | 
               | Yeah, they would totally ignore their customer just like
               | that one did.
               | 
               | Unfortunately, providing proper support and protecting
               | own customers in digital realm is an unsustainable
               | business practice for most registrars.
        
               | Sebb767 wrote:
               | > Take a look who is they registrar and then look their
               | prices up.
               | 
               | So, in case anyone is interested, their registrar is
               | MarkMonitor Inc., with a pricing of "contact us". The
               | only pricing info I could find [0] said that it's 20$/yr
               | for a .com, but with a minimum spend of 10k$ (probably
               | reached by using their other services, such as the stated
               | purpose of monitoring of trademarks).
               | 
               | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18063232
        
               | egorfine wrote:
               | Last time I have heard about them it was $5k/y.
        
             | TiredOfLife wrote:
             | It's not optimal, but the domain registrar must choose
             | between every domain they have and one that is causing
             | trouble.
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | (FYI, if you didn't already notice this, you're probably far
         | too busy anyway, but still: https://bsky.app/profile/botherer.b
         | sky.social/post/3lcuitcck...)
        
         | TheEnbyperor wrote:
         | I run a domain registrar. "serverHold" is not a status that
         | iwantmyname could've set. If they had suspended the domain it'd
         | have "clientHold" set. Server Hold means the registry (i.e. .io
         | directly) has suspended the domain. Your best bet would be to
         | contact the Internet Computer Bureau Ltd who run .io at
         | admin@icb.co.uk, or the registry technical support provider
         | Identity Digital at techsupport@identity.digital.
        
           | kj4ips wrote:
           | I've heard a ton of stories about .io, IMO, they play fast
           | and loose in a space where that isn't okay, and they get away
           | with it mostly because they are a ccTLD.
           | 
           | The last time someone I knew had an issue, they had to get a
           | senator to make waves to get anything resolved.
        
             | 0x38B wrote:
             | I regret going with .io for my personal domain name. At the
             | time I thought it was cool, but they've since raised prices
             | and hearing things like this doesn't instill confidence...
        
               | qingcharles wrote:
               | And isn't .io on borrowed time, since the country will
               | soon no longer exist?
        
               | Suppafly wrote:
               | Do they get rid of TLDs once the country they are
               | assigned to goes away? I assumed they'd sell them to
               | someone or something.
        
               | unanimous wrote:
               | They might not have much of a choice but to shut down all
               | .io domains. This video explains a little:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yJ6AZsUlpc
        
               | foobarchu wrote:
               | Nobody really knows. There are only a few precedents,
               | i.e. the old Soviet Union .su tld being kept around, or
               | the 2 letter country code that I can't recall which was
               | reassigned to a new country after the old one went out of
               | existence.
               | 
               | There isn't really a precedent for a tld with as many
               | domains under it as .io, it's a very strong possibility
               | it will be kept around and given to a private entity or
               | even to GB.
        
               | sigio wrote:
               | That, and the Indian Ocean territory will cease to exist
               | in the (very) near future, so the .io domains might be
               | going the way of the dodo. I won't be registering any new
               | ones at least, and recommending everyone to stay away
               | from them.
        
           | leafo wrote:
           | Interesting, this morning I got a response from a staff
           | member of the parent company that owns iwantmyname saying
           | they didn't get my response with regards to the abuse
           | notification they sent and that's why they took the domain
           | down.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | > Because of this, I honestly think they're the malicious actor
         | in all of this.
         | 
         | While I agree, the people who hired them are equally culpable.
         | You don't get to wash your hands of the mess just because
         | someone else is doing your dirty work.
        
         | Arch485 wrote:
         | I smell a class action lawsuit. That's a whole lot of lost
         | revenue and time for you and itch.io's creators.
         | 
         | Godspeed!
        
         | nstart wrote:
         | For what it's worth, I know Namecheap gets a meh rep, but we've
         | been on the receiving end of several phishing/copyright reports
         | and have responded across the spectrum in terms of time span.
         | We've responded immediately. We've responded with an hour or so
         | to go. In all cases, Namecheap has somehow responded quickly
         | and resolved the issue.
        
           | rexreed wrote:
           | I coincidentally just this past week ran into a major issue
           | with Namecheap on a fraudulent domain marketplace sale that
           | they did not resolve properly or in a timely manner. They
           | deserve their meh reputation. They were decent about a decade
           | ago. Come renewal my domains up for sale are moving to
           | Dynadot. Was considering porkbun but I sense they are heading
           | the namecheap way.
        
             | Sindisil wrote:
             | > but I sense they are heading the namecheap way
             | 
             | What makes you say that?
        
               | rexreed wrote:
               | Some of the comments and feedback I'm seeing in the
               | reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/PorkBun/. But then again
               | I don't have any firsthand experience with these issues,
               | so who knows. Are you having good experiences with
               | Porkbun?
        
         | safety1st wrote:
         | So it sounds like this was DMCA abuse by Funko, aided and
         | abetted by BrandShield, and it resulted in damages to you. Also
         | sounds like iwantmyname just went along with it, they are
         | probably conditioned to do so by the rules.
         | 
         | I would write up a complaint and send it to the incoming FTC
         | Commissioner. Yes, I'm serious. From the signals Trump is
         | sending if there is ever a time when Republicans may support
         | some form of DMCA reform, it's now. He's on record talking
         | about punishing Big Tech and supporting "Little Tech." You're
         | Little Tech. Send copies of your letter to Funko and
         | BrandShield. Also reach out or at least send a copy to Matt
         | Stoller, the guy who publishes a very popular newsletter about
         | monopoly, anti-trust and corporate abuse in America, he will be
         | interested. Go for the throat.
        
           | Mindwipe wrote:
           | Given the OP and admin in the comments explicitly say that
           | this wasn't a DMCA claim it would rather hurt any campaign to
           | lie and say it was.
        
             | tremon wrote:
             | But the DMCA is the only legal mechanism for demanding
             | swift action from a registrar/hosting party without the
             | involvement of a judge, at least FAFAIK. So if this wasn't
             | a DMCA takedown, then the registrar was acting completely
             | of their own volition and should be liable for all fallout.
        
               | qingcharles wrote:
               | No, sadly it's not. These are private companies.. if you
               | write to them and tell them to take a site down for
               | "reasons" and they think the "reasons" are good enough,
               | they'll do it.
        
         | vasco wrote:
         | Hope you have money to fight them. I stuck to my guns on a
         | wrongful one like this and while Digitalocean and Cloudflare
         | both had my backs (surprisingly before I even asked, both of
         | them got a lot of good will on that - they informed me they
         | already checked and it was spurious!). Google didn't have my
         | back though and immediately caved when they upgraded their sham
         | copyright infringement claim to money laundering and fraud
         | based on nothing - a fully static website with no backend
         | calls. Good luck! I still have the sites exactly as they were
         | just to spite them and will keep running them at a loss until
         | I'm dead. Copyright infringement my ass. This abuse has got to
         | stop sometime.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | > I still have the sites exactly as they were just to spite
           | them and will keep running them at a loss until I'm dead.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spite_house
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Curb_Your_Enthusiasm_e.
           | ..
        
           | joseda-hg wrote:
           | If they are fully static couldn't they probably be run at
           | close to 0 cost from you?
        
             | vasco wrote:
             | Yes I'm not the pope, it's a cheap server. Still doesn't
             | make any money.
        
               | SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
               | If it's a static site, you could move it to Cloudflare
               | Pages to reduce the cost to zero.
        
               | vasco wrote:
               | And make my story worse? I feel like to optimize for
               | spite I need to pay a little as well. You made me laugh
               | though - have a good day :)
        
               | registeredcorn wrote:
               | spite^fake-DMCA-claim
        
         | thn-gap wrote:
         | I wanted to take the time to thank you for the service you
         | provide. itch.io is unvaluable to the indie community, and I'm
         | perplexed when I see some devs complain about issues like this.
         | Thabks for all your work.
        
         | JosefAlbers wrote:
         | It's working again now.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | I've had the same thing happening; I run a simple forum, and
         | some years ago people were discussing a manga, posting images
         | of fan translated pages.
         | 
         | My hosting party (Hetzner) forwarded the emails and / or put it
         | in their own system, I removed the offending images / page,
         | replied to the email, and done, right? Wrong, the email said I
         | had to fill in a statement through some online form somewhere;
         | I did that too late and got more and more threatening emails
         | like "pack your shit we're evicting you in 24 hours". Nobody
         | seemed to actually read my replies / explanation, probably
         | because this is so routine for them.
         | 
         | And I get it, nobody can be arsed to read longwinded
         | explanations and the like for routine operations. I hope AI
         | assisted tooling will help the overworked support employees
         | with making decisions in favor of giving people the benefit of
         | the doubt and the help they need; for them it's routine, but
         | for me it was the first time I got anything like that.
        
         | andrewmcwatters wrote:
         | You really need to get off both .io and this no-name registrar.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure that the Funko Pop - Funko Fusion -
         | brandshield.com - BrandShield automated software - DMCA -
         | iwantmyname.com (Team Internet) - itch.io path means that it's
         | no one's fault and no one's to blame, and there's no one to
         | appeal to other than the media.
         | 
         | Wonderful how we've constructed our society like this.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | > it's no one's fault and no one's to blame
           | 
           | There's obviously somebody to blame. Somebody getting a
           | legitimate domain taken down for hours should have
           | consequences, if only to make mistakes more expensive for
           | trigger-happy automated "IP protection" services (the only
           | signal they'll probably understand).
           | 
           | The question is just if itch.io has the funding and energy to
           | actually pursue the matter legally, now that it's technically
           | resolved. I couldn't blame them for just changing registrars
           | instead.
        
         | tonygiorgio wrote:
         | Unfortunately "serverHold" goes above registrars. I learned
         | this the hard way. There's a variety of watchdogs that false
         | flag things all the time, and a handful of tld's that will
         | blindly obey these orders. I'm guessing io is one of these.
         | You'll have to escalate it with them, though I was never
         | successful. Good luck.
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | > The BrandShield software is probably instructed to eradicate
         | all "unauthorized" use of their trademark, so they sent reports
         | independently to our host and registrar claiming there was
         | "fraud and phishing" going on, likely to cause escalation
         | instead of doing the expected DMCA/cease-and-desist. Because of
         | this, I honestly think they're the malicious actor in all of
         | this.
         | 
         | I feel like there's also some missing layer of infrastructure
         | here.
         | 
         | itch.io, like a lot of sites (HN being another), is meant to
         | act as a host of user-generated content, over which the site
         | takes a _curatorial_ but not _editorial_ stance. (I.e. the site
         | has a Terms of Use; and has moderators that take things down  /
         | prevent things from being posted according to the Terms of Use;
         | but otherwise is not favoring content according to the
         | platform's own beliefs in the way that e.g. a newspaper would.
         | None of the UGC posted "represents the views" of the platform,
         | and there's no UGC that the platform would be particularly sad
         | to see taken down.)
         | 
         | I feel like, for such arms-length-hosted UGC platforms, there
         | should be a mechanism to indicate to these "brand protection"
         | services (and phishing/fraud-detection services, etc) that
         | takedown reports should be directed first-and-foremost at the
         | platform itself. A mechanism to assert "this site doesn't have
         | a vested interest in the content it hosts, and so is perfectly
         | willing to comply with takedown requests pointed at specific
         | content; so please don't try to take down the site itself."
         | 
         | There _are_ UGC-hosting websites that brand-protection services
         | already treat this way (e.g. YouTube, Facebook, etc) -- but
         | that 's just institutional "human common sense" knowledge held
         | about a few specific sites. I feel like this could be
         | generalized, with a rule these takedown systems can follow,
         | where if there's some indication (in a /.well-known/ entry, for
         | example) that the site is a UGC-host and accepts its own
         | platform-level abuse/takedown reports, then that should be
         | attempted first, before trying to get the site itself taken
         | down.
         | 
         | (Of course, such a rule necessarily cannot be a full short-
         | circuit for the regular host-level takedown logic such systems
         | follow; otherwise pirates, fraudsters, etc would just pretend
         | their one-off phishing domains are UGC platforms. But you could
         | have e.g. a default heuristic that if the takedown system
         | discovers a platform-automated-takedown-request channel, then
         | it'll try that channel and give it an hour to take effect
         | before moving onto the host-level strategy; and if it can be
         | detected from e.g. certificate transparency logs that the
         | current ownership of the host is sufficiently long-lived, then
         | additional leeway could be given, upgrading to a 24-72hr wait
         | before host-takedown triggers.)
        
           | robertduncan wrote:
           | There is a parallel to the public suffix list, which domains
           | like github.io are listed on:
           | https://publicsuffix.org/list/public_suffix_list.dat
        
         | codatory wrote:
         | Smells like tortious interference to me... and likely some form
         | of perjury. I'd probably stop talking to them now that service
         | is restored and get in touch with legal representation.
        
         | meaydinli wrote:
         | Behavior from "iwantmyname" doesn't sound like they deserve
         | your business anymore.
        
         | nonplus wrote:
         | I hope you come out of this in good shape. I try to get all my
         | (digital) TTRPGs and indie games through your platform.
        
         | Suppafly wrote:
         | I wish brandshield would pull this shit with someone that was
         | large enough to sue them for fraud or tortious interference.
        
         | Razengan wrote:
         | Lemme use this opportunity for having your attention to suggest
         | some form of collaboration or even a merger with the Godot game
         | engine:
         | 
         | * itch.io users could launch the Godot Web Editor to quickly
         | make prototypes or simple games right on itch
         | 
         | * Publish from the native Godot editor directly to itch.io
         | 
         | * Godot adopts itch.io as the official asset store for art
         | packs etc.
         | 
         | * Introduce social features for devs and artists to collaborate
         | with each other:
         | 
         | * A publisher could choose to add a "Fork" or similar button on
         | their itch.io game page that downloads and opens the project
         | source in Godot. * All "forks" published that way would include
         | a link to the original game's page, and so on.
         | 
         | I think Godot+itch could/should become the Github of Games :)
        
       | sureglymop wrote:
       | A similar thing has happened to me before. There is a company
       | with the same name as my surname with a trademark for it.
       | 
       | When I registered a domain with my surname in it, the registrar
       | had an automatic process in place that checked for this trademark
       | and took away access of the domain. So far so good. The problem
       | was that the registrar and its support then ghosted me and also
       | never refunded me for the money already paid to lease the domain
       | for a year. Overall it was a bad experienced with bad
       | communication that made me switch registrar (note: this was a
       | different registrar than mentioned here).
       | 
       | I think one of the problems is that as more and more individual
       | consumers buy domains, certain legal processes and automation are
       | not ready for that. A good registrar should anticipate that an
       | individual private consumer may not have the legal experience or
       | knowledge to deal with just being hit with something they were
       | never explicitly warned of.
        
         | moralestapia wrote:
         | Trademarks are country specific while domain names are not.
         | Would be interesting to know what happens if they took this to
         | trial (in which country though).
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | Of course domain registrations are also subject to national
           | law. .io in particular is (currently) under UK jurisdiction.
        
             | moralestapia wrote:
             | Hmm ... you're right, I could have worded that differently
             | to help people like you understand the point being made.
             | 
             | s/domain names are not/DNS is not/
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | I still don't get the point (presumably due to being in
               | the set of "people like me") - could you please
               | elaborate?
               | 
               | And I don't get what DNS has to do with any of this; this
               | is a registrar/legal dispute, not a nameserver/technical
               | one.
        
         | hobofan wrote:
         | > I think one of the problems is that as more and more
         | individual consumers buy domains
         | 
         | Huh, I was always under the assumption that the percentage of
         | domains bought by individual consumers is shrinking. As in, in
         | the early days of the internet until ~2010 where
         | commercialization was only slowly picking up (or only
         | concentrated to a few domains), the majority of domains were
         | personal websites and blogs.
        
           | ivanmontillam wrote:
           | > _Huh, I was always under the assumption that the percentage
           | of domains bought by individual consumers is shrinking._
           | 
           | Yes, but a segment of the domain market still buys their name
           | domains and defends them on the Internet.
           | 
           | I bought my fname+lname domain a few years ago, but I'm not
           | planning to surrender it to a random conglomerate.
           | 
           | > _As in, in the early days of the internet until ~2010 where
           | commercialization was only slowly picking up (or only
           | concentrated to a few domains), the majority of domains were
           | personal websites and blogs._
           | 
           | A deep part of me hopes this part of the market never dies,
           | for the good health of the Internet's sovereignity.
        
           | djsnoopy wrote:
           | The percentage share of personal domains doesn't tell you
           | everything. More and more consumers probably are buying
           | personal domains just by the nature of it getting cheaper and
           | easier to host and there being more people on the internet
           | year over year. Could be proven wrong though because I don't
           | know how to get the numbers.
        
         | will5421 wrote:
         | Which registrar was this? I'd like to avoid them.
        
           | Modified3019 wrote:
           | "iwantmyname", from leafo's post here:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42364033
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | I find it curious that this (purely factual and correct)
             | comment got downvoted/flagged into oblivion.
        
               | roryokane wrote:
               | How would you know whether Modified3019's comment is
               | factual and correct? sureglymop wrote "note: this was a
               | different registrar than mentioned here", and they
               | haven't written any other comments in the thread that
               | might identify the registrar.
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | > How would you know whether Modified3019's comment is
               | factual and correct?
               | 
               | By following the reference they provided, which is to a
               | post by the person running itch.io stating just that.
               | 
               | I don't know if the linked comment is actually correct,
               | but the link to a comment plus quoteof the relevant part
               | seems as factual as it gets.
        
               | Modified3019 wrote:
               | Now that it's morning, I realize that the comment I was
               | replying to wasn't asking about itch.io's registrar, but
               | was actually a reply to a post by sureglymop.
               | 
               | Basically I didn't notice the very slight indentation on
               | my phone. Whoops.
               | 
               | I don't know who sureglymop's registrar is. I'd encourage
               | them to name and shame, refusing to refund is
               | unacceptable.
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | Update: Turns out GP simply replied to the wrong thread,
               | so it was just a typical case of "downvoting takes less
               | effort than pointing out a mistake", I suppose.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | > When I registered a domain with my surname in it, the
         | registrar had an automatic process in place that checked for
         | this trademark and took away access of the domain. So far so
         | good.
         | 
         | I don't think this is good.
         | 
         | Trademarks are country-specific, not global like domains.
         | Further, within a country trademarks are only valid within the
         | scope of certain classes, which means:
         | 
         | * There will often be more than one trademark holder of even
         | non-surname trademarks.
         | 
         | * You can't trademark a surname to prevent its use generally,
         | you can only restrict its use in a narrow sphere.
         | 
         | I understand why domain registrars automatically overenforce
         | their country's trademark laws (they can't deal with the legal
         | complications that will result from them not doing so), but
         | it's very much _not_ good that someone like you can get to a
         | domain for your surname first and be told you can 't have it in
         | case the trademark holder (for which class???) might want it.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | > Trademarks are country-specific, not global like domains.
           | 
           | Domains are also subject to local law! For ccTLDs, it's
           | usually that of the country in question; for gTLD, to my
           | knowledge the US has effective jurisdiction (through ICANN)
           | over at least some of the popular gTLDs such as .com and
           | .net.
           | 
           | "Local law" in this case doesn't just include actual laws on
           | the books, but also the risk and cost of getting sued by
           | either a trademark holder or a non-trademark-infringing
           | domain owner.
           | 
           | This is exactly the type of issue that people usually don't
           | consider when picking a TLD, vanity or otherwise.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Hm. So Funko sells merchandise related to the Jurassic World
       | franchise.[1] But, according to Licensing International, Mattel
       | licenses the toy rights to that franchise from Universal Products
       | and Experiences, the merchandise arm of Universal Pictures. [2]
       | Also, Funko sells Disney Princess dolls.[3] Mattel announced a
       | multi-year licensing deal with Disney to license the doll rights
       | for Disney Princess dolls. "The courage and compassion found
       | throughout our Disney Princess and Frozen stories and characters
       | continue to inspire fans around the globe," said Stephanie Young,
       | President of Disney Consumer Products, Games and Publishing. "By
       | furthering our longstanding relationship with Mattel, we look
       | forward to expanding the worlds of Disney Princess and Frozen,
       | introducing an innovative new era of these beloved franchises
       | through captivating products and play opportunities."
       | 
       | Might be useful to send letters to Disney's and Mattel's legal
       | departments. Mattel paid a lot of money for that Disney license.
       | Disney is very protective of those licenses. Mattel lost the
       | Disney license to Hasbro for a few years due to overproduction of
       | low quality dolls. I'm surprised to see Funko selling low-quality
       | Disney dolls. They degrade a Disney brand.
       | 
       | [1] https://funko.com/pop-tyrannosaurus-rex-fossil/80225.html
       | 
       | [2] https://licensinginternational.org/news/mattel-and-
       | universal...
       | 
       | [3] https://funko.com/fandoms/animation-cartoons/disney-
       | princess...
       | 
       | [4] https://corporate.mattel.com/news/mattel-and-disney-
       | announce...
        
         | Freak_NL wrote:
         | Why on earth would you send letters? These are all huge
         | corporations with sizeable legal departments. They either know
         | or they should, and most importantly, are paid to handle this.
         | Moreover, you're not likely to be heard or understood by the
         | first line of customer care there, even if this was something
         | they weren't aware of (quite unlikely) but wished they were.
         | It's a waste of time, and something even the biggest altruist
         | would find hard to defend as a sensible effort.
         | 
         | Besides, Disney is perfectly capable of degrading their own
         | brand.
        
           | OrangeMusic wrote:
           | I think OP's plan wasn't to help Disney, but to hurt Funko?
           | 
           | But I agree this is most probably futile :)
        
         | therealcamino wrote:
         | I think Funko's products are classified as collectibles, not
         | dolls. I am sure they have licenses from Disney.
        
           | jerf wrote:
           | Funko still exists, ergo, they have licenses from Disney.
           | 
           | Disney chases down little daycare centers:
           | https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/daycare-center-murals/
           | 
           | They would not miss Funko.
        
         | dawnerd wrote:
         | Disney and Universal license and even sell Funko in their
         | parks. But what you did discover is why some are bobble heads.
        
       | timvdalen wrote:
       | I got a "cease and desist" type email from one of these (Tracer
       | AI) last week. Really annoying, but I guess spam is a prime LLM
       | use case...
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | Spam is, when it comes to it, basically the only proven LLM
         | usecase at this point. Everything else is all a bit 'jam
         | tomorrow', "doesn't really work now, but it'll be magic soon,
         | we promise!", but it has very much revolutionised the spam
         | industry.
        
       | nicoloren wrote:
       | I've experienced the same thing: a YouTube channel deleted
       | without any explanation (the email from Google mentioned spam,
       | even though I filmed all the videos myself), Facebook preventing
       | me from sharing posts from a website (without any explanation),
       | and of course, domain names that get deindexed from Google
       | without any reason (no message in Google Search Console).
       | 
       | I believe we've reached a point where any activity on the web can
       | vanish overnight due to an AI or an algorithm making decisions
       | based on obscure criteria.
        
         | subarctic wrote:
         | I mean at least those are walled garden platforms where this
         | sort of thing we've come to expect. An independent website as
         | big as itch.io going down because of a bogus complaint is a big
         | surprise
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | That's what I thought. Last week, two of my domains were
           | frozen by the TLD owner without notice, and they'd take them
           | offline altogether in 7 days if I didn't supply some
           | paperwork to my registrar
           | 
           | I've had these domains for ten years, now all of a sudden
           | this is super urgent and if I'm on holiday that'd be a real
           | shame I guess
           | 
           | So I contact the registrar and a link to the relevant
           | legislation was sufficient to send them a perfectly agreeably
           | censored version of my identity document (removing just
           | irrelevant information they can't use or verify anyway), but
           | apparently all they do is forward it to support@afnic.fr and
           | not actually mark the domain holder as verified. So AFNIC,
           | predictably, rejects it because GDPR doesn't exist in France
           | 
           | I saw no other choice but to send everything into AFNIC's
           | email inbox / support system, which famously never get leaked
           | and they assured me was "highly" secured when I asked to at
           | least remove it after verification
           | 
           | With just 7 days' notice and half of that going to the
           | distraction of a registrar, there's also no way to figure out
           | what's even going on or have any sort of conversation. They
           | hold all the cards and you jump when they say hop
           | 
           | I'm considering my options for any TLDs owned by AFNIC...
           | evidently .io isn't better, but how to know who is
        
       | leonard-somero wrote:
       | I am Leonard Somero, I run verysoftwares.itch.io. I have over 300
       | followers and a game with 20k+ plays that has been repeatedly
       | featured on the front page.
       | 
       | This certainly changed my morning routine! I am glad to hear that
       | the reason wasn't me deleting my Twitter from my page. My first
       | panic reaction was thinking it was me who's caused it, due to
       | some kind of ad revenue conflict.
       | 
       | Ever seen the movie Summer Wars? I felt like the protagonist for
       | a moment there, but glad it turns out it was just some 2020s AI
       | nonsense.
       | 
       | Either way, there's surely an engineer somewhere who's very busy
       | right now.
        
         | Shank wrote:
         | > Ever seen the movie Summer Wars? I felt like the protagonist
         | for a moment there, but glad it turns out it was just some
         | 2020s AI nonsense.
         | 
         | Love Machine _was a rouge AI_ in Summer Wars, though.
        
           | gessha wrote:
           | Rouge or rogue :D
        
       | disjunct wrote:
       | Funko as a brand exists entirely on derivative content, albeit
       | licensed. Seems like exactly the sort of brand that would trip
       | auto-DMCA software.
        
       | totetsu wrote:
       | Is it possible for itch.io to follow the advice of putting user
       | generated content onto a seperate domain from their main one?
        
         | gsck wrote:
         | The entire site is user generated content
        
       | HelloNurse wrote:
       | Congratulation for the return of the site!
        
       | cherryteastain wrote:
       | How are all these "DMCA Ignored" domain registrars? Do they
       | actually send all DMCA requests to /dev/null? Sounds like using
       | one of those would have "fixed" the problem here.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | I used to host my TV torrent tracker with one of these that
         | would ignore literally everything. Was expensive, but was
         | factored into the costs.
        
       | TophWells wrote:
       | It's back up now!
        
       | CM30 wrote:
       | It should be illegal for any company to rely on AI or automation
       | to handle legal risks, especially without any human driven
       | support to fall back on. The fact we're handling over things this
       | serious to unreliable and poorly configured systems feels like
       | absolute insanity to me.
       | 
       | Also, why is the domain registrar even being contacted here? I
       | thought the general idea was that you'd first contact the site
       | owner and wait for a response, and if there's no response in a
       | certain amount of time, then you might contact the registrar or
       | something. No one should be going over the heads of website
       | owners and creators for matters like this, especially not as
       | their first resort.
       | 
       | In a logical world, they'd contact Itch.io and Itch.io would take
       | down the page (which they did), and that would be it. No need to
       | involve the registrar at all in a case like this one.
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | I don't think it needs to be illegal - it should be enough to
         | just hold companies responsible for the consequences, just like
         | they are for using any other kind of technical system without
         | appropriate supervision.
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | Like I frequently1 advise2:
       | 
       | Don't look to large, well-known registrars. I would suggest that
       | you look for local registrars _in your area_. The TLD registry
       | for your country /area usually has a list of the authorized
       | registrars, so you can simply search that for entities with a
       | local address.
       | 
       | Disclaimer: I work at such a small registrar, but you are not in
       | our target market.
       | 
       | 1. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32095499>
       | 
       | 2. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32507784>
        
         | remram wrote:
         | How do you monitor for when they inevitably get acquired?
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | That's a very SV view on things; i.e. that small companies
           | inevitably get acquired. Most small companies _don't_
           | actually get acquired, and are not looking to be acquired.
           | 
           | The simple answer is: Choose a registrar without significant
           | external investors.
        
       | ivanjermakov wrote:
       | Since when it is registrar responsibility to take down domains
       | based on third-party reports? I would think to do it registrar
       | needs at least a warrant from officials, and not without a notice
       | of domain owner.
        
       | Jdfmiller wrote:
       | I sent a request to the registrar, and they emailed with this
       | response. They're claiming it wasn't their fault.
       | 
       | --------                 Your request has been updated. To add
       | additional comments, reply to this email.            9 Dec 2024,
       | 10:57 UTC            Hello and thank you for your message.
       | The domain name was already reinstated earlier today after the
       | registrant finally responded to our notice and took appropriate
       | action to resolve the issue
        
         | KerrAvon wrote:
         | The registrant is itch.io. Sounds like victim blaming.
        
       | Beijinger wrote:
       | There are some recommendations of registrars here in the chat.
       | Let me recommend two:
       | 
       | 1. internet.bs No Bullshit Domains. I am using them since 10
       | years, and I am very happy. Email is comparatively expensive, but
       | you can buy this separately from infomaniak.com for 18 EURO a
       | year.
       | 
       | 2. If you need country TLDs, this may be a good option: inwx.com
        
       | josefritzishere wrote:
       | It may ultimately be lost revenue and lawsuits that protect us
       | from the tidal wave of AI garbage.
        
       | 6bb32646d83d wrote:
       | One of my .xyz domain was taken down because one it somehow ended
       | up on a single spam list as Phishing (it was not hosting any
       | phishing, and all the code is actually open source).
       | 
       | I never was able to get it cleared. It's crazy the power that
       | those spam list can have and they care very little about false
       | positives
        
       | drusepth wrote:
       | We actually had almost the exact same thing happen to Notebook.ai
       | last month:
       | 
       | - automated notice of trademark infringement from some posted
       | user content, accusing us of "fraud and phishing" (filed by a
       | third party on behalf of Meta)
       | 
       | - that user content was immediately deleted upon receiving the
       | notice
       | 
       | - exactly a week later, our host (Heroku) banned our account with
       | a generic no-reason "Your account has been banned."
       | 
       | Total downtime of about 24 hours until it was resolved; luckily,
       | Heroku's support simply unbanned the account whenever I reached
       | out to ask why we were banned. Migrating to another host wouldn't
       | have taken much longer, but would have been a pain.
       | 
       | Goes to show layering a couple automated processes together can
       | have pretty devastating false-positives. I'm glad there was a
       | human in the loop at Heroku I could reach to get things sorted
       | out relatively quickly; also glad to see Itch.io is back up and
       | got it sorted out relatively quickly as well.
        
       | StuntPope wrote:
       | easyDNS here. Our ears were burning as multiple people have
       | mentioned us in this thread.
       | 
       | If you want to get with a registrar who is actually clueful about
       | takedowns, we can help you out.
        
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