[HN Gopher] UK bans daytime TV ads for cereals, muffins and burgers
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       UK bans daytime TV ads for cereals, muffins and burgers
        
       Author : ivewonyoung
       Score  : 283 points
       Date   : 2024-12-08 19:51 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.france24.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.france24.com)
        
       | mentalgear wrote:
       | I hope other countries take action soon. It's deeply
       | irresponsible how we allow advertisements and Big Sugar/Fast Food
       | companies to exploit colorful cartoon characters and misleading
       | health claims to hook people--especially children--on excessive
       | sugar and fat consumption. This not only fosters unhealthy eating
       | habits but also conditions them to crave specific branded flavors
       | from an early age.
        
         | whycome wrote:
         | Are adults not allowed to like colourful cartoon characters?
         | Fruit flavours?
        
           | daseiner1 wrote:
           | Parent commenter didn't write anything to the contrary;
           | obviously the median child gets more excited by those two
           | things than the median adult.
           | 
           | I really loathe these sort of "gotcha" comments.
        
             | whycome wrote:
             | > Parent commenter didn't write anything to the contrary;
             | 
             | Did I imply that? Are "colorful cartoon characters" the
             | part that's "deeply irresponsible" or just the misleading
             | health claims? If you prevent the latter then you don't
             | have anything to attach the former to.
             | 
             | > I really loathe these sort of "gotcha" comments.
             | 
             | I don't get what part of my comment was the 'gotcha'
        
               | pixxel wrote:
               | > I don't get what part of my comment was the 'gotcha
               | 
               | Watching day-time cartoons will do that.
        
           | akira2501 wrote:
           | You're telling me this ad appeals to you in your demographic?
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJmM2CSn2ao
        
             | whycome wrote:
             | Isn't the issue there the claims of "fruit flavours" easily
             | misinterpreted as having actual fruit and including vitamin
             | c prominently when it's just fortified.
        
               | meesles wrote:
               | You've moved the goalpost! No, the issue is that fruit
               | flavors and cartoon characters are abused to appeal to
               | children. That is what the original comment said and
               | which you only half replied to! The video provided to you
               | was an example of such - cartoons and 'fruit flavors' to
               | hook kids on wanting sugary cereals for breakfast.
        
               | whycome wrote:
               | Moved goalpoast?
               | 
               | > No, the issue is that fruit flavors and cartoon
               | characters are abused to appeal to children. That is what
               | the original comment said
               | 
               | That's not what they said. They said:
               | 
               | > It's deeply irresponsible how we allow advertisements
               | and Big Sugar/Fast Food companies to exploit colorful
               | cartoon characters and misleading health claims to hook
               | people
               | 
               | I don't think the cartoon characters is the part of the
               | problem to address. And I think that aspect becomes
               | irrelevant when addressing the actual problem. (And
               | 'Fruit flavours' was my addition and question not theirs)
               | 
               | What part of my comment "only half replied"? I asked two
               | questions in relation to the comment. I mentioned
               | "colourful cartoon characters" and "fruit flavours"
               | because those are examples of things that "appeal to
               | kids" even though they have wider audiences. Canada (and
               | other countries?) want to ban flavours from e-cigarettes
               | because of the appeal to youth (and limiting it to just
               | mint, menthol and tobacco). Why should an adult be
               | limited to mint as a flavour for an age-controlled
               | product? Why shouldn't an advertiser be allowed to use
               | colorful cartoon characters?
               | 
               | Moved goalpost? Aren't we saying the same thing here? The
               | video, and similar breakfast cereals, are perfect
               | examples of the actual problem. It uses the combination
               | of cartoons and false health claims. The false health
               | claims are the parts that are problematic - that's the
               | part to eliminate. The informational part of that video
               | (and the box information design!) is meant to appeal to
               | (read: mislead) adults, not kids.
               | 
               | Allowing false health claims for unhealthy products is an
               | issue. Miseducating parents and adults about what's
               | healthy is an issue. Suppressing how terrible excess
               | sugar is for children and adults is an issue. Allowing
               | lines like "how about fruit flavours"? (in video) and
               | showing pictures of fruit is an issue. Allowing producers
               | to hide how unhealthy something is by saying it's
               | "healthy when part of a balanced breakfast" is an issue.
               | Even now, nutrition information or prominent labels for
               | cereals can include the values (eg protein) when one
               | consumes it with milk!
               | 
               | Change that and what does that video or other ads for
               | cereals become?
        
               | akira2501 wrote:
               | The purpose of the commercial is to create demand where
               | there otherwise would not have been. Do you think that
               | demand comes from the parents or the children? Which
               | parts of the commercial do you think are most important
               | for fomenting this demand?
        
       | hecticjeff wrote:
       | I don't think this goes far enough. Kids see adverts for this
       | stuff in so many other places, TV is just one small step. Take a
       | kid into a supermarket and there's junk food advertised
       | everywhere.
        
         | Dinux wrote:
         | It's a first step. The larger point here is awareness.
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | When you think about it none of the ads are for healthy food.
         | When did you ever see an advert for Broccoli on the television?
         | 
         | Probably best to ban all food advertising.
        
       | lijok wrote:
       | Baffling to me how advertising to those without a stable source
       | of above living-cost income is allowed in the first place. Let
       | alone advertising to children.
        
         | zabzonk wrote:
         | How do you select for "those without a stable source of above
         | living-cost income?
        
           | lijok wrote:
           | No idea. That's for the advertising firms to figure out.
        
           | chrisjj wrote:
           | Ration TVs, obviously :)
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | Sell your cereal to free school breakfast programs so those
           | kids are literally spoon fed your stuff by the government.
           | When they complain to their parents they want it at home,
           | make sure you can trade food stamps for your cereal.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | They still get stuff though. Daytime advertising for toys is
         | basically aimed at kids' birthday / christmas wishlists, pocket
         | money, etc. If you add it up, that's hundreds of whatever your
         | currency is per year across birthdays, gift giving holidays,
         | and family / extended family.
        
       | jsheard wrote:
       | Can we do gambling ads next? We banned tobacco ads and then
       | seemingly forgot the lesson that it's actually bad to let
       | advertisers shove addictive and self-destructive products in the
       | publics face, including to former addicts at risk of relapse.
        
         | optimalsolver wrote:
         | >Can we do gambling ads next?
         | 
         | As long as we ban ads for stock trading platforms (i.e.
         | gambling for the professional classes) at the same time.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | I don't disagree, but stock trading ads are in some ways
           | already more strictly regulated than gambling ads here.
           | Gambling ads are required to have a vague "please gamble
           | responsibly" statement, but ads for CFD trading platforms are
           | required to have a prominent warning stating the exact
           | percentage of their accounts which lose money (often >75%).
           | The gambling ads don't have to tell you the real odds of
           | coming out ahead.
           | 
           | e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM_zuudkSnY
        
           | stego-tech wrote:
           | I think a fair and reasonable advertisement policy is to ban
           | all advertisements during "children's programming hours", or
           | 0800 to 1600 when school is not in session. During "Prime
           | Time" hours of 0500-0800 and 1600-2300, adverts should be
           | limited to luxury goods (e.g., fashion), government PSAs, and
           | non-addictive goods or services (NO drugs, NO tobacco, NO
           | gambling, and NO stock trading, to name but a few). Between
           | 2300 and 0400, allow "free reign" on subscription channels
           | but still bar "vice" or addiction ads.
           | 
           | We've got a century of data showing laissez-faire approaches
           | to advertising results in maximum harm to a society, and
           | ample recent data from the internet age showing how dark
           | patterns in psychology are exploited by advertisers to drive
           | outcomes.
           | 
           | We have to do better, and the UK's step is at least an
           | attempt to stem the harm. I can't fault entities from at
           | least _trying_ to do better.
        
             | chgs wrote:
             | Daytime tv is all about brainwashing wealthy retired
             | people.
             | 
             | Still not as bad as those weird country which advertise
             | prescription medicine
        
             | alexchamberlain wrote:
             | I wonder what proportion of children are still watching
             | mainstream TV? My son (4) mainly watches Disney+ and
             | Netflix.
        
               | fn-mote wrote:
               | Choosing streaming services will be correlated to income.
               | Netflix (medium $) and Disney+ (high $$). The less
               | wealthy are watching YouTube with ads included.
        
             | lmm wrote:
             | Children are the people least able to destroy their own
             | lives through spending, so that feels pretty backwards. I
             | think it's generally accepted that people who grow up
             | around e.g. alcohol tend to have a healthier relationship
             | with it than people who are suddenly exposed to it as an
             | adult.
        
               | BehindBlueEyes wrote:
               | But they are among the most impressionable and it is
               | effective to target the parents via kids nagging them.
        
             | BehindBlueEyes wrote:
             | Add to your list to ban medical advertisement to the vice
             | and addiction bar.
             | 
             | Do you feel like your knee itches sometime? You may have
             | BSitis, ask your doctor if our product is right for you...
             | 
             | Replace all these with a generic, if you feel sick, go see
             | a doctor, that's what they are for if needed.
        
           | iamacyborg wrote:
           | Wait until you hear about how CFD trading is legal in large
           | parts of the world.
        
             | throwaway2037 wrote:
             | Is the payout on a CFD the same as a future or forward?
        
           | datavirtue wrote:
           | Irrelevant. Stocks are a share of a company. The have book
           | value and intrinsic value. Freedom to buy and sell is
           | essential.
           | 
           | Of course, crypto speculation is something different
           | altogether. Maybe you were thinking about all the poor
           | schleps buying Bitcoin for $100k?
           | 
           | Even then, your chances of winning are around 50/50 and no
           | one is forcing you to cash out.
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | There is an important difference. With stocks, the punter
           | wins on average. With gambling, the punter loses on average.
           | 
           | You can still lose all your money on stocks, with a
           | combination of bad choices and bad luck. But it is much
           | easier to lose it on the horses.
        
             | shric wrote:
             | The punter does not win on average with stocks due to fees
             | and spread.
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | IIRC average stock market returns have historically been
               | around 7% per year. Index funds charge around 1% per
               | year.
               | 
               | My stock ISAs have gone up pretty much every year (after
               | inflation and fees).
        
               | rfrey wrote:
               | Putting your money into an index fund is the exact
               | opposite of what is being advertised, e.g. trading
               | platforms optimized for day trading, complete with
               | blinkenlighten and "learn to trade" mini courses teaching
               | technical indicators and other voodoo nonsense.
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | There is a reason they spend loads of money on ads trying
               | to get you into day trading. ;0)
        
               | lmm wrote:
               | > Index funds charge around 1% per year.
               | 
               | You're getting ripped off, you should be paying a small
               | fraction of that.
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | Vanguard UK charge 0.06% to 0.6% per year on their index
               | funds: https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-
               | offer/all-product...
               | 
               | Plus a 0.15% account fee:
               | https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/fees-
               | explai...
               | 
               | Most others charge more.
        
               | quickthrowman wrote:
               | 1% is quite extreme, the S&P 500 fund I use (FXAIX)
               | charges .015% per year which is almost 70 times less
               | expensive than 1%.
        
               | shric wrote:
               | Indeed, I am mostly in ASX:IVV (another S&P 500 ETF) and
               | it charges 0.04% per year.
        
               | eviks wrote:
               | > Index funds
               | 
               | That's not what the ads for the stock trading platforms
               | want you to do
        
               | shric wrote:
               | I was very careful with my words. I said:
               | 
               | > The punter does not win on average with stocks due to
               | fees and spread.
               | 
               | Literally 100% of my investing is the stock market. I
               | have so much faith in the stock market that I rent
               | because I don't want to waste the opportunity cost on
               | equity in property.
               | 
               | A punter is informal slang for a person who gambles. I
               | buy and hold a diversified portfolio of index funds over
               | decades. I am very much not a punter.
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | It seems there is more than one definition of 'punter'. I
               | meant it as 'customer/client'. But other sources define
               | it as 'a person who gambles, places a bet, or makes a
               | risky investment'.
        
               | shric wrote:
               | I'm only familiar with the latter definition. My mistake
               | I guess.
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | >My mistake I guess.
               | 
               | Not really. There just seems to be more than one meaning,
               | and we were each aware of different ones. The meaning
               | might vary by country (I am in the UK).
        
               | shric wrote:
               | It was a mistake because I got downvoted by issuing a
               | correct statement (if punter is interpreted as a
               | gambler).
               | 
               | I am from the UK but moved to Australia about 35 years
               | ago
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | >It was a mistake because I got downvoted by issuing a
               | correct statement (if punter is interpreted as a
               | gambler).
               | 
               | I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
               | 
               | https://xkcd.com/386/
               | 
               | ;o)
        
         | jonplackett wrote:
         | The warnings for gambling ads are particularly infuriating.
         | 
         | Like what would anyone think of a smoking warning of "when the
         | fun stops, stop"
        
         | manojlds wrote:
         | It's interesting that one of the tax free investment/savings
         | choices in the UK is basically a lottery.
        
           | thom wrote:
           | You're not risking any capital though, if you mean Premium
           | Bonds.
        
             | anotheracc88 wrote:
             | Even better, pay that money into a pension and buy a
             | lottery ticket.
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | Pensions sort of already are a lottery. Can't collect if
               | you're dead. Live to 95 and they help a lot. Though
               | inflation will still getcha in the end.
        
               | anotheracc88 wrote:
               | Yes if you choose annuity but you can also buy those with
               | regular cash so it's as relevant here as price of tea.
               | 
               | Pensions are more tax efficient and offer a better option
               | of investments (companies) than what is effectively fiat
               | interest going into a lottery pool.
               | 
               | If you have cash in premium bonds you might die young
               | then pay inheritance tax.
               | 
               | Better give your kids cash earlier to live off or invest
               | to avoid this, and so they can over-stuff their pensions
               | ;). Not many people think that far ahead (60 year
               | horizon)
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | Some young adults in my life have grandparents who just
               | hit this point, and are trying to set up gifting money to
               | the grandkids in the form of brokerage accounts.
        
               | petesergeant wrote:
               | > Pensions sort of already are a lottery
               | 
               | Annuities maybe, but those aren't the only kind of
               | pensions
        
               | kgwgk wrote:
               | That seems the definition of pension. You may be thinking
               | of something else.                 pension            a
               | regular income paid by a government or a financial
               | organization to someone who no longer works, usually
               | because of their age or health
        
               | petesergeant wrote:
               | The first line of the Wikipedia article on pensions is
               | more accurate than wherever you've pulled that from:
               | 
               | > A pension (/'penS@n/; from Latin pensio 'payment') is a
               | fund into which amounts are paid regularly during an
               | individual's working career, and from which periodic
               | payments are made to support the person's retirement from
               | work.
               | 
               | A pension is a financial instrument. There's no need to
               | purchase an annuity, which means a pension organised
               | correctly can be passed on to your children or spouse,
               | and there's no lottery or gamble angle.
        
               | kgwgk wrote:
               | > wherever you've pulled that from
               | 
               | A dictionary: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary
               | /english/dictiona...
               | 
               | The wikipedia definition is strange. A pension is not a
               | fund. A pension fund is a fund! (There is also a
               | wikipedia page for that!)
               | 
               | Apart from that how is "regular income paid by to someone
               | who no longer works" different from "periodic payments
               | made to support the person's retirement from work"
               | anyway?
        
               | petesergeant wrote:
               | Because you missed the original distinction, which is
               | that an annuity -- a product purchased using your pension
               | savings where all the value is lost when you die -- is
               | not the same as other pensions, where for example you
               | have stocks and shares paying dividends, in a pension
               | wrapper, and those pass on to your estate when you die.
               | 
               | The word pension is overloaded. A SIPP is a pension, the
               | state pension is a pension, and people refer to their
               | annuity as pensions too.
               | 
               | > A pension is not a fund. A pension fund is a fund!
               | 
               | The word fund is being used in two different ways here. A
               | pension is a fund, but is not a Pension Fund.
        
               | kgwgk wrote:
               | The wikipedia page you mention says that "The common use
               | of the term pension is to describe the payments a person
               | receives upon retirement, usually under predetermined
               | legal or contractual terms."
               | 
               | I'm familiar with retirement accounts and pension plans
               | in a number of countries but not in the UK. I see that in
               | the UK "pension" is often used a short-hand for "pension
               | scheme" (it seems a relatively new development which I've
               | not seen reflected in dictionaries).
               | 
               | For what it's worth, the wikipedia page for
               | Personal_pension is redirected to
               | Personal_pension_scheme: "A personal pension scheme
               | (PPS), sometimes called a personal pension plan (PPP), is
               | ..."
        
               | throwaway2037 wrote:
               | By this reasoning, isn't buying equities also gambling?
               | Hint: It is not.
        
               | Nullabillity wrote:
               | Why not?
        
             | hgomersall wrote:
             | Indeed, premium bonds are just a slightly more
             | "entertaining" way of allocating interest. Just as
             | arbitrary as the MPC, but potentially a much higher rate
             | (probably not though).
        
           | derriz wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure all gambling winnings are tax free in the UK?
           | 
           | Thank the power of the horse racing/gaming/gambling lobby.
           | 
           | Many years ago when I lived there, I had an IG Index account
           | - who market themselves as a "financial spread betting"
           | service. At the time, you could buy/sell futures and options
           | with them but it was presented in a way that emphasized that
           | you were "spread betting" - but the mechanics were the exact
           | same and expiries all lined up with the obvious counterparts
           | in the liquid futures space.
           | 
           | So because you were NOT investing but gambling, "winnings"
           | were tax free.
           | 
           | I just googled and they're still going - presumably still
           | offering the same betting "service".
           | 
           | It's funny to see the efforts that scam and pure gambling
           | services go to to try and present themselves as staid and
           | serious "investment" business while IG Index offered access
           | to well-regulated financial markets but kept reminding you
           | that you were betting.
        
             | ahoka wrote:
             | No gambling taxes? Must be a money laundering heaven.
        
               | justincormack wrote:
               | there are taxes, but they are largely on the earnings of
               | the gaming companies
        
               | thanksgiving wrote:
               | It makes sense though if I think about it.
               | 
               | In theory, all the money wagered is money that has
               | already paid income tax at some point so why tax it
               | again?
        
               | throwaway2037 wrote:
               | Because gambling is so terrible for your society!
        
               | funnybeam wrote:
               | That's true of anything you pay money for
        
               | technion wrote:
               | As an Australian this is the first I've ever heard of
               | paying taxes on gambling winnings.
        
           | duiker101 wrote:
           | For those unaware, this comment is referring to premium bonds
           | in the UK[1]. It is a very interesting system, I agree! But
           | there are quite a few parts of the system that make it way
           | more fair than a lottery.
           | 
           | Most obviously, it doesn't cost to enter. So the most you can
           | "lose" is a missed interest income from putting the money in
           | another source.
           | 
           | After that, it's definitely the fact that the algorithm is
           | designed to both pay a certain percentage of people and
           | always have specific return. [1]
           | 
           | You are also limited to how much you can enter to 50k.
           | 
           | With all that in mind, at the end of the day it feels like
           | many small wins over time, with the super random chance of
           | occasionally having a big-ish payout.
           | 
           | It's definitely designed to feel like a lottery, but in
           | reality is way more akin to normal savings than a lottery.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.nsandi.com/products/premium-bonds
        
             | teruakohatu wrote:
             | In New Zealand this scheme was called "Bonus Bonds" and was
             | wound up on 26 February 2024. Interest was charged on
             | "wins" just like any other income. Apparently the average
             | return was a paltry 1.5%.
        
               | julianz wrote:
               | Everyone knew someone's uncle who swore blind that he
               | made heaps on the bonus bonds and had all his money
               | "invested" in there, but I received some around my 10th
               | birthday and they never struck a single prize. In 40
               | years.
        
           | penguin_booze wrote:
           | Tax man: Did you earn your daily bread by working your arse
           | off? Gimme some of that money.
           | 
           | Also tax man: Oh did you get that money by luck? Good for
           | you, man.
           | 
           | Also tax man: Did you get inherit money by having been born
           | into a wealthy family? Gimme some of that money.
           | 
           | Also tax man: Were you born into the royal family? Good for
           | you, man. Pardon me, I mean, your highness.
        
         | cynicalsecurity wrote:
         | The business is probably owned by some rich and influential
         | chap who eagerly shares with the right people in the
         | parliament.
        
         | ashconnor wrote:
         | Considering Labour's connection to gambling companies [0]
         | probably not.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/28/tory...
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | Indeed. It has been heavily covered in Private Eye, as well.
           | Labour is deeply in hock to the gambling industry. So much
           | for "gambling is the curse of the working class".
        
             | Der_Einzige wrote:
             | I'd vote lib dem in every election to get British
             | paternalism out of your politics, luckily my country voted
             | with guns to refuse to recognize the authority of your
             | tyrannical monarchy
             | 
             | The lib dems are the only party in the UN that cares about
             | personal freedom, and yall don't like them. Y'all also
             | didn't like labor when it was actually living up to its
             | name (Corbyn years). Get off your high horse you
             | authoritarian despots and let the poor have their gambling.
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | >luckily my country voted with guns to refuse to
               | recognize the authority of your tyrannical monarchy
               | 
               | And how is that going?
        
               | Der_Einzige wrote:
               | USD is making every other country look and feel poor with
               | how strong it is right now, vs... brexit, so it's going
               | great!
               | 
               | The UK is the sick man of Europe.
        
           | fakedang wrote:
           | Funny how you can buy British politicians for dirt cheap. In
           | India or the US, it would take at least $100k-200k to get a
           | single politician's attention at the bare minimum, while in
           | the UK you can influence party positions for 25k quid.
        
             | saagarjha wrote:
             | I don't have enough experience about India to comment on
             | that but in the US the amount of money it takes to
             | influence a politician is quite low.
        
               | fakedang wrote:
               | Don't you need to donate at least $100k to influence
               | senators or influence party positions in the US? Sure,
               | you could "buy" a politician for cheaper, but you're not
               | guaranteeing they will toe your line.
               | 
               | India is ridiculously expensive - bribes often amount to
               | 50 lakh rupees to 1 crore + rupees, which amounts to
               | roughly $50k-100k per politician. Not to mention bribery
               | at the lower rungs of the ladder where everyone from the
               | politician's toilet janitor all the way to the
               | politician's chief of staff will demand their pound of
               | flesh, usually in the tune of tens of lakhs of rupees
               | (~$10k).
        
               | thanksgiving wrote:
               | That's not a good thing. From what I understand, a lot of
               | "cheaper" bribes in India are for things that the
               | government employees must do as a part of their jobs so
               | like a bribe for these government employees to do their
               | job basically which still filters up to the highest
               | levels of government.
               | 
               | Why would you agree to stick your neck out for something
               | illegal on the cheap when you can wring the ordinary
               | people to do your job?
               | 
               | All this is based on second hand information so please
               | correct me where I am wrong. Also probably things are
               | different in different parts of the country?
        
               | SanjayMehta wrote:
               | This is exactly how it works.
        
               | fakedang wrote:
               | I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing - bribery is
               | bad, full stop. I wanted to draw a comparison between how
               | expensive it is in India vs the UK, which means that a
               | relatively smaller pool of individuals can actually
               | afford to bribe in India vs the UK, which makes projects
               | more concentrated in the hands of a few (which is still a
               | lot in a bit country like India).
               | 
               | On the other hand, I was a member of the Treasury group
               | and the Leaders group of the Tory party until recently,
               | with just a "paltry" donation of PS50k, which got me the
               | ear of a sitting PM and regular meetings with the
               | Chancellor. Good luck trying to get that kind of access
               | in India or the US with the PM.
               | 
               | The cheaper bribes were a tangent, but just to show that
               | doing business in India is actually more expensive than
               | in the UK (where there are no such bribes).
        
               | WillPostForFood wrote:
               | How much do you estimate it would take to get a
               | politician to flip their view on abortion, gun control,
               | illegal immigration, health care? Seems like if it were
               | "quite low" you'd see politicians flipping views all the
               | time as one side or the other channelled money to them.
               | 
               | What we actually see is a lot of stasis, refusal to
               | compromise, and politicians locked in with their party,
               | which suggests it is pretty hard to influence
               | politicians.
               | 
               | Where money is effective is using it to get politicians
               | who agree with your view elected.
        
               | devilbunny wrote:
               | Those are all hot-button issues that can make someone
               | lose their seat. Unless you have enough money that they
               | never have to work again, not going to happen. Almost
               | nobody outside of HN notices the DMCA, but it's there.
        
               | arp242 wrote:
               | "Buying a politician to vote in a certain way" is not
               | really how it works most of the time. It's more "buying
               | time with a politician so you can give the best possible
               | explanation for your case without any counter-argument".
               | Turns out, that is surprisingly effective, especially
               | when there isn't really an organised counter-movement
               | with similar funds to get politicians ears.
        
               | addicted wrote:
               | You don't buy politicians to change their views on the
               | circus items.
               | 
               | The only reason all those "issues" are issues is because
               | they're intended to distract the public from the actual
               | stuff politicians are being bought for. Transferring
               | wealth to their buyers.
               | 
               | 80% of the politicians on both sides of the spectrum have
               | the same beliefs about all those issues.
        
             | throwaway2037 wrote:
             | This is an interesting observation. Why do you think it is
             | so much lower in UK Vs US? My guess: There are much less
             | private donations in the national UK political system.
        
               | kd5bjo wrote:
               | US congressional districts being an order of magnitude
               | larger than UK constituencies probably has something to
               | do with it. Also, there are significantly more MPs than
               | representatives, so you have to swing more legislators to
               | your side in the UK vs the US to get your pet policies
               | adopted.
               | 
               | (Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_con
               | gressional_ap... , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitu
               | encies_of_the_Parliame... )
        
               | fakedang wrote:
               | But you can get a seat at the table for negotiations if
               | the Tories are in power and you're a part of the Leaders
               | group or the Treasury group of donors. All for PS50k.
               | 
               | Leaders group puts you in touch with the Tory party
               | leader (who is often the PM if the Tories are in power).
               | Treasury group invites you to meetings with the
               | Chancellor of the Exchequer.
        
             | willcipriano wrote:
             | US politians are routinely bought for numbers similar to
             | the UK ones.
             | 
             | They will often vote in a way that their constituents do
             | not want for ~10k in campaign contributions.
             | 
             | They didn't have to worry about the voters finding out
             | about it (this is changing with alternative media) beacuse
             | the same people bought ads on the major networks.
        
             | SanjayMehta wrote:
             | In India one doesn't just bribe a politician, one hires an
             | expensive lawyer who "handles" the case.
             | 
             | The real bribery starts at the bottom of the pyramid.
             | 
             | Say you want a water connection. The rate is set on the
             | size of the property, and each layer in the pyramid knows
             | exactly how many square feet were approved and what their
             | individual percentage will be.
             | 
             | And again, you can't just bribe the fellow directly: you
             | need to go through a trusted agent who acts as a cut-out
             | between the briber and the bribed. This started after the
             | Lok Ayukta started conducting raids. Who says our babus
             | aren't flexible and innovative?
        
             | Der_Einzige wrote:
             | SK presidents wife cost one Dior bag worth 2200$ USD. Not
             | even Gucci, Chanel, or Louis Vuitton!
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | It's interesting that the UK has banned gambling ads online,
         | but not on TV. Combined with the fact that they regulate
         | cryptocurrencies as gambling, that's why you get no UK crypto
         | ads online. For example, the PayPal UK front page doesn't even
         | mention that you can buy crypto there.
        
           | zakki wrote:
           | Do you have the link that regulate crypto as gambling in UK?
           | I tried Google it but no luck.
        
             | exe34 wrote:
             | wait if crypto is gambling, then they don't tax the
             | proceeds, right? but I'm pretty sure they tax it as capital
             | gains..... so it's gambling for advertising purposes but
             | capital investment for tax purposes...
             | 
             | I suppose the law is an ass.
        
             | frereubu wrote:
             | This isn't true. OP may be confusing things like this -
             | https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/licensees-and-
             | business... - as saying that crypto is regulated as
             | gambling, but it's not.
        
           | rgblambda wrote:
           | Maybe this is blurring the line between online and TV, but TV
           | streaming services definitely have gambling ads. A gambling
           | ad literally just came on the Channel 4 player in front of me
           | as I started typing this.
        
           | thenickdude wrote:
           | You can buy crypto on PayPal?? Our New Zealand version
           | doesn't mention it either.
        
             | LeoPanthera wrote:
             | Not in New Zealand. The USA, the UK, and Luxembourg only.
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | I'm not in the UK, but yeah it's nothing short of fucking
         | disgusting how plastered TV is with these incessant gambling
         | ads. "Gamble on slots on your phone while you're in the metro,
         | the hairdresser, the dentist!" they shout, at kids and adults
         | alike, 2 times every minute on every commercial break.
         | Disgusting.
        
         | dzonga wrote:
         | i was going to comment on this. gambling ads of all kinds, sky-
         | bet, sky vegas casino + whatever in their hydra form. in
         | depressed places like luton - you see how gambling has
         | destroyed the little that remained.
         | 
         | ban gambling companies from sponsoring sports teams, from being
         | associated with sports teams etc.
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | It is very noticeable that the gambling shops are clustered
           | around the poorest parts of every town.
           | 
           | I grew up near a gambling shop. You would see the punters
           | desparately trying to eek out every last puff on their roll-
           | up cigarettes, while the gambling shop owner would drive up
           | in his Rolls Royce.
        
         | b800h wrote:
         | Or massive vaping ads on the side of school buses.
        
         | surgical_fire wrote:
         | I wonder if a prohibition to have gambling ads on TV would
         | affect the Premier League teams that have gambling sponsorships
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | Let's just ban all ads!
        
           | thanksgiving wrote:
           | A good start would be a ban on ads based on who is viewing
           | the ad vs what the content surrounding the ad is...
           | 
           | So, Casper mattress wants to have an ad spot in a podcast or
           | a YouTube video in the video itself? That's ok.
           | 
           | YouTube wants to include an ad about a mattress in a video
           | about home renovation? Also ok.
           | 
           | Stack overflow wants to show an ad for GitHub? Is ok to me.
           | 
           | YouTube wants to show an ad about Casper mattress based on
           | whether someone has clicked on an ad about mattresses before?
           | Banned!
           | 
           | This alone would be a great start.
        
             | Nullabillity wrote:
             | Or... just get rid of them all.
        
             | gwbas1c wrote:
             | I was joking, but I think you make my point better.
        
         | benatkin wrote:
         | Sarcasm I hope...
        
       | Winblows11 wrote:
       | What about adverts on YouTube and TikTok and other online
       | platforms? I doubt kids/teenagers watch much TV at all these
       | days.
        
         | xxs wrote:
         | "This government is taking action now to end the targeting of
         | junk food ads at kids, across both TV and _online_. ",
         | 
         | it's a quote from the article, it's very likely they'd ban ads
         | targeted at children.
        
           | chgs wrote:
           | I expect a lot of pushback from the new u.s administration
           | about any online regulations.
        
             | xxs wrote:
             | The regulation would apply to the UK. UK brands and goods
             | sold in the UK, by established/registered companies the UK.
             | Not possible to sell any retail goods of the sorts w/o a
             | registration in the UK, so stopping them advertising won't
             | be hard.
             | 
             | I don't think US administration would be able to do
             | anything, much like GDPR.
        
               | chgs wrote:
               | Tarrifs and other threats
        
               | spacebanana7 wrote:
               | What about Mr Beast video sponsored by McDonalds (for the
               | sake of specificity, a new McMuffin available in every
               | country on earth)?
               | 
               | > I don't think US administration would be able to do
               | anything, much like GDPR.
               | 
               | We live in a different world to the mid-late 2010s. For
               | better or worse, I'm fairly confident Musk and Zuckerberg
               | will have input on US trade policy on these issues.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | > For better or worse, I'm fairly confident Musk and
               | Zuckerberg will have input on US trade policy on these
               | issues.
               | 
               | Input, yes.
               | 
               | May even be able to get the US to threaten a trade war or
               | to leave NATO if they can't rake in the advertising
               | dollars.
               | 
               | But I think the former would be seen as Trump being Trump
               | and the latter as a bluff, and in both cases it would be
               | reason to more permanently disentangle the UK economy
               | from the US economy and defence relationship than to dry
               | away the crocodile tears of multibillonaires.
        
               | spacebanana7 wrote:
               | The US has more leverage over the UK then perhaps any
               | other country. Largely because of the shared political
               | culture.
               | 
               | They could throw hand grenades into British politics by
               | declassifying embarrassing events involving British
               | soldiers in Iraq, investigating tax issues with labour
               | party donors (many of whom conduct business in the US) or
               | recognising Northern Ireland as part of the Republic of
               | Ireland.
               | 
               | Attacking the British economy would be a political
               | mistake, because a well advised politician would use it
               | as a scapegoat for any economic problem in the UK.
               | Similar with defence - e.g the withdrawal of intelligence
               | cooperation could allow a terrorist attack to be blamed
               | on Trump rather than MI5/MI6 funding stress.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | Seems plausible, though I still think the US threatening
               | to do that, let alone actually doing that, is more likely
               | to cause a separation between the US and UK than to be
               | taken seriously (in the sense of getting the UK to change
               | course).
               | 
               | The UK did just go through having Boris Johnson as Prime
               | Minister, after all, who spent his time in office
               | demonstrating that being completely shameless is a viable
               | solution to almost all blackmail -- he only fell when
               | there were photos of him partying in the same period he
               | was on TV telling people they couldn't do that or visit
               | dying relatives because COVID lockdown, everything else
               | wrong was basically ignored.
        
               | xxs wrote:
               | McDonalds is likely to be responsible for the contents in
               | that regard I'd presume (esp since they do own the
               | trademark). This is what I meant by corporations
               | registered in the UK.
               | 
               | In a similar vein gambling content targeted at kids would
               | have a similar approach. Keep in mind the businesses
               | still need to be able to sell in the UK.
        
           | anotheracc88 wrote:
           | For Youtube often the content is an ad too. Will Google need
           | to stop serving huge swaths of content to the UK at certain
           | times? Hope so!
        
             | dartos wrote:
             | I got news for you.
             | 
             | Kids entertainment has almost always been ads.
             | 
             | Disney movies are marketing for toys. Same with TV shows
             | and cartoons.
        
             | xxs wrote:
             | >content to the UK at certain times? Hope so!
             | 
             | We have no idea how/where it'd end up (with). If I
             | understand anything about regulations (which is doubtful of
             | course), the advertisers, themselves, would be on the hook.
        
           | pkaye wrote:
           | According to this link Food and Beverage ads are already
           | prohibited on YouTube kids. I don't know if this is a US
           | specific policy but I presume its similar elsewhere.
           | 
           | https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6168681?hl=en#zipp.
           | ..
        
         | crowcroft wrote:
         | It baffles me that more countries haven't put legislation in
         | place to severely limit what ads can be served to under 18 year
         | olds (or at least under 16).
         | 
         | I worked in an ad agency a number of years ago, and Phillip
         | Morris approached us with a deliberate plan to launch big
         | budget ad campaigns on social media platforms specifically
         | because they could get in front of younger demos more easily
         | (traditional media having existing regulations in my country).
         | 
         | The original idea was to build a large database of prospects to
         | sell direct to even after regulation eventually cracks down on
         | them. Amazingly no regulation has come yet, and Meta has done
         | little to no self-regulation.
         | 
         | You can blame parents, but even then one under appreciated
         | problem with digital ads is the lack of shared experience. With
         | TV advertising, you know what your kid is seeing, everyone can
         | see a verify what ad ran at what time on what channel etc. If a
         | parent and a kid are scrolling social media their experience is
         | entirely different, and you can't go back and see what someone
         | else has seen.
        
           | EasyMark wrote:
           | Probably because being tracked across all platforms is a bad
           | idea in a democractic/liberal type of country, and not worth
           | the "think of the children" argument. At some point parents
           | have to take some responsibility.
        
             | crowcroft wrote:
             | First, I'm not sure being tracked across all platforms is
             | actually a requirement here. On device age verification and
             | device attestation and/or simply assuming anonymous users
             | are under 18 from an ad safety perspective would allow a
             | level of anonymity across platforms. It might also help
             | solve a large chunk of ad fraud.
             | 
             | Second, I think you really need strong evidence to say that
             | the upside you're asserting is truly worth sacrificing kids
             | safety.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | > At some point parents have to take some responsibility
             | 
             | By voting for the party that promises to enforce bans
             | against it?
             | 
             | There's more than one way to be responsible, and it's not
             | good to be a "helicopter parent" even if you have enough
             | free time to actually pair-browse the internet with your
             | kid, and even if you did that doesn't stop them seeing
             | inappropriate content or ads it just means there's a
             | witness who knows they saw inappropriate content or ads.
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | My kid recently got a second hand iPad tablet. On it, she
           | uses YouTube Kids. I made an account for her. Now, they ask
           | _me_ for consent, since she cannot legally give it. They
           | throw ads at her about toys, but this is illegal in my
           | country to target children with ads. Ads are supposed to
           | target parents, not kids. Now, if it were one ad at start,
           | I'd hate it, but they go further: in a 10-minute movie, the
           | thing quits like 3 times to show my kid an ad. She barely has
           | the attention span to watch the bloody vid! You know why they
           | do it? Not because it is legal; because they get away with
           | it. Law is irrelevant if it isn't uphold.
        
             | crowcroft wrote:
             | That's the other thing as well, we need to spend more time
             | upholding laws that already exist instead of getting
             | distracted with these weird news publisher content
             | regulations like Canada has.
        
               | troyvit wrote:
               | And Programmatic advertising makes this extremely
               | difficult. Once you add a giant, automated ad exchange to
               | advertising you've created opaque supply chains that help
               | make it trivial to obfuscate who actually makes money
               | from an ad. This article on ad fraud goes into more
               | detail: https://xenoss.io/blog/programmatic-ad-fraud-
               | detection
        
               | crowcroft wrote:
               | Agree on issues with programmatic. Compared to the number
               | of dollars, and in particular number of dollars being
               | spent on ads served to under 18s, programmatic is a
               | rounding error compared to Google, Meta, TikTok etc.
               | 
               | https://www.emarketer.com/uploads/pdf/US_Ad_Spending_2023
               | .pd...
        
               | troyvit wrote:
               | Whoah good point. Man for how small that market is they
               | sure spend a lot of time screwing it up. Given their
               | closed systems, do Google, Meta and TikTok have tighter
               | controls over ads served to kids that they just aren't
               | applying, or is it something else?
        
               | crowcroft wrote:
               | Over the years it's hard to grok just how small
               | 'traditional' media has become. Messing up programmatic
               | and letting a ton of scam tech vendors take most of the
               | money out of the system is a large part of that problem.
               | 
               | My experience is that the big vendors are better than
               | scummy programmatic platforms in terms of 'safety' but
               | even then not by much.
               | 
               | Even YouTube's 'for kids' product consistently has
               | scandals break out about it which says where the
               | company's priorities are.
        
             | dghlsakjg wrote:
             | You have the power to stop this: disable the app if you
             | believe the ads are harming your child, or opt to pay for
             | YT or another kids video service that doesn't serve ads.
             | 
             | One issue is that YT is possibly violating the law. A
             | separate issue is that parents are allowing children to
             | continue consuming harmful ad content on an app.
        
               | crowcroft wrote:
               | Not sure if YT for kids falls in this category exactly
               | but the social nature of a lot of these products means
               | that cutting your kid off also has negative effects in
               | their social circle when all their friends are on the
               | networks. That's why collective action is needed, not
               | just the action of individual parents.
        
               | Ntrails wrote:
               | If we all stand around and wait for the collective action
               | to start, it never will. imo start by making informed
               | choices and sharing your reasons when asked.
               | 
               | Shrugging at brainworms being inserted into your child
               | and shrugging with a "well that's just the world we live
               | in" is mind boggling to me. Heck, when i grew up there
               | were kids without TV at home. They survived pretty well,
               | despite a bit of social disconnect.
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | I don't know if apple will allow you to do it on an ipad,
             | but even very young kids can learn to use something like
             | newpipe or yt-dlp which can download videos and removes
             | youtube's ads. If nothing else you could download ad-free
             | videos and copy them to a device so there's a massive
             | library of safe media you've vetted and wont have to worry
             | about.
        
         | bko wrote:
         | If your child watches a lot of YouTube, or any at all really,
         | you should really invest in YouTube premium. It's incredible
         | how much people use YouTube but because there is a free option,
         | few bother to fork over $14 a month to remove ads, especially
         | when it vastly improves the experience for your children. In a
         | case like this I think the obvious solution is self-regulation.
        
       | Pet_Ant wrote:
       | Well I didn't understand how -besides the cereals maybe- are
       | unhealthy
       | 
       | > Breakfast cereals including ready-to-eat cereals, granola,
       | muesli, porridge oats and other oat-based cereals.
       | 
       | until I re-read and saw this:
       | 
       | > But the new restrictions will not apply to healthier options
       | such as natural porridge oats and unsweetened yoghurt.
       | 
       | So I think it's not clear in the first sentence but "ready-to-
       | eat" is meant to apply to all the items in the list and not just
       | the cereals.
        
         | deskr wrote:
         | It's very strange they say porridge oats are banned, then go on
         | saying "natural porridge oats" are not.
         | 
         | In my mind porridge oats are natural and you don't have to say
         | that. If you have something else you need to say so.
        
           | dmart wrote:
           | I'm assuming they mean stuff like Quaker oatmeal packets
           | which are half sugar.
        
             | jay_kyburz wrote:
             | My kids love natural porridge, however there is a constant
             | battle about how much honey they are allowed to drown them
             | in. :)
        
               | chrisjj wrote:
               | I am amazed honey is not on this list of "junk" foods.
        
               | datavirtue wrote:
               | It's on mine. Refined sugar with water, pure and simple.
               | It doesn't get a pass.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | Are any other toppings on the list? If it's just
               | standalone foods I'm not surprised.
        
               | fy20 wrote:
               | The highly processed stuff found in supermarkets
               | definately should be. If you haven't ever tried real
               | honey, go find some and thank me later.
        
             | hombre_fatal wrote:
             | Unfortunately you're probably right. When "oats" may refer
             | to those sugar packs it kinda shows how bad our food habits
             | and norms have fallen.
        
           | beejiu wrote:
           | They are not banned. They are on "the list" (as the article
           | says) meaning they must be scored using the "NPM model". Only
           | scores exceeding 4 are "banned", which will include sweetened
           | oats.
        
             | deskr wrote:
             | >must be scored using the "NPM model". Only scores
             | exceeding 4 are "banned", which will include sweetened oats
             | 
             | Thanks. Do you have a link to "the list" and this NPM model
             | scoring system?
        
               | aembleton wrote:
               | https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7cdac7e5
               | 274...
        
         | KaiserPro wrote:
         | Its the cereal industry being bastards again.
         | 
         | Breakfast cereals contain a colossal amount of sugar, and are a
         | great way to keep your diabetes on its toes. They haven't been
         | healthy for years, moreover the toys they put in them have been
         | shit as well.
        
           | Cumpiler69 wrote:
           | _> moreover the toys they put in them have been shit as well_
           | 
           | That's what pisses me the fuck off. Even Kinder toys have
           | been shit for decades.
        
           | razakel wrote:
           | If they didn't fortify breakfast cereals then they'd be about
           | as nutritious as the box they came in.
        
         | beejiu wrote:
         | There's a lot of misinformation going around about how the
         | legislation works.
         | 
         | All porridge oats are "in scope" of the regulation, which means
         | they need to be scored using the "Nutrient Profile Model" score
         | before being advertised.
         | 
         | The result is that porridge oats are not banned, but golden
         | syrup instant porridge oats will be.
         | 
         | Here's the scoring model:
         | https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-nutrient-prof...
        
           | seabass-labrax wrote:
           | Do you think this is worth posting as a top-level comment?
           | There's already lots of speculation in this thread (confusion
           | even), and I appreciate you bringing an authoritative
           | reference to the discussion.
        
         | JBits wrote:
         | I'm a bit confused as I thought muesli was healthy.
        
           | kyriakos wrote:
           | It's healthy from the point of having fiber if you have no
           | fruit and vegetables in your diet but at the same time it's
           | 30% or more sugar.
        
       | dageshi wrote:
       | Good thing they made this move once daytime tv was basically
       | irrelevant to anyone under 40 or it might've had some impact.
        
         | gwerbret wrote:
         | Direct quote from the article which I'm sure you read: "This
         | government is taking action now to end the targeting of junk
         | food ads at kids, across both TV and online."
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | Because when kids go on the internet they always end up in
           | regulated age appropriate areas.
        
       | tomp wrote:
       | Wow, what's wrong with burgers?
       | 
       | I mean, certainly you can get bad meat, and maybe it's easier to
       | conceal in a burger than in a steak, but ... how about literally
       | _all other processed meat_ that is invariably processed more than
       | burgers? Salami, sausages, hot dogs, ...
       | 
       | I personally love burger, and consider it one of the finest
       | foods.
       | 
       | Fortunately, there's a very easy way to know the _quality_ of a
       | burger - if they ask you, how well you want it done, it 's high
       | quality! Shitty burger places like McDonalds and Burger King
       | don't want to risk selling you a medium-done burger... Funny
       | enough, UK is one of the better places for high-quality burger,
       | much better than e.g. Switzerland or Slovenia! My favourite in
       | London is (was? 2019) Honest Burger...
        
         | Karellen wrote:
         | > Also on the banned list are products _such as_ chickpea or
         | lentil-based crisps, seaweed-based snacks and Bombay mix as
         | well as energy drinks, hamburgers and chicken nuggets.
         | 
         | The foods mentioned in the article are not an exhaustive list
         | of all the foods for which the government has banned
         | advertising. It's possible they've also banned ads for salami,
         | sausages and hot dogs, but the article didn't mention it.
         | 
         | Probably because, compared to burgers, there aren't that many
         | ads for salami, sausages and hot-dogs during daytime TV, so
         | it's not seen as much of a problem, or as worth mentioning.
         | 
         | But because you mention it - how many daytime ads do you see
         | for high quality burgers, like Honest Burger, as compared to
         | ads for McDonalds and Burger King?
        
           | cma wrote:
           | McDonald's burgers are 100% beef. What's the problem? If the
           | bun and other parts of the burger are ultra processed,
           | whatever that means, well, that's the same for their chicken
           | sandwiches, right? If the problem is the salt or seasonings,
           | why not ban ads for salty burgers over a threshold or burgers
           | with the specific problematic seasonings?
        
             | nradov wrote:
             | Salt is not particularly a problem unless someone has a
             | genetic predisposition to hypertension or doesn't drink
             | enough water.
        
         | KaiserPro wrote:
         | There is nothing wrong with most foods as part of a mixed diet.
         | The problem is, a burger/box of chicken is ~PS2-4 and fucking
         | fast. A meal with vegetables either takes preparation, or is
         | >PS6
         | 
         | The issue here is that the UK is obese as fuck. Partly because
         | of education, partly because of price, party because of
         | supermarkets.
         | 
         | If we want to avoid spending billions upon billions tackling
         | diabetes and other related conditions, the UK needs to tackle
         | its diet. This is
        
         | Krutonium wrote:
         | In Canada, it's outright illegal to sell a burger medium done.
         | If you get caught, your restaurant _will_ be closed for a
         | couple weeks minimum, along with a hefty fine. It must be fully
         | cooked, or not served.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | seriously? No medium well, just straight up well done? So,
           | hockey pucks? Ahh, now it makes sense. It's a law endowed by
           | Canada's love of hockey
        
             | dboreham wrote:
             | It's perfectly possible to cook a burger such that it's not
             | dry but also not raw.
        
           | dboreham wrote:
           | Same in UK. Family members keep asking me when we travel
           | there "will my burger be done right". Uhhh..there's only one
           | kind of doneness for a burger in these parts.
        
           | akira2501 wrote:
           | It's ground beef. The rule is you must cook it to the proper
           | internal temperature. This is reasonable food safety. This
           | simply precludes medium as an option.
           | 
           | If they grind their own meat or use something like ground
           | chuck or ground round you can get it medium.
        
             | cma wrote:
             | Why is ground chuck safer than other ground beef?
        
               | evgen wrote:
               | Bacteria contaminates the exposed surface of foods. Pre-
               | ground meat has a _lot_ of surface area exposed so the
               | potential for contamination is high. If you get your meat
               | as a chunk of chuck roast or larger primal cut, follow
               | good food safety practices in how you maintain your
               | workspace, and then grind the chuck and turn it into
               | patties to be grilled the probability for serving a
               | contaminated product is low.
               | 
               | The problem is that this is more expensive and time
               | consuming so almost no one actually does this in a
               | commercial setting. If you tell me you do this when I
               | come over to your home cook-out I will possibly trust you
               | to serve me a burger with some pink in it, but if your
               | restaurant tries to sell a $6 burger that you let someone
               | order medium-rare bad things are going to eventually
               | happen...
        
               | BenjiWiebe wrote:
               | For added safety, you can even sear the outside of the
               | cut, then trim the seared part before grinding the rest.
        
               | canucker2016 wrote:
               | There are small burger restaurant chains in Canada that
               | grind their meat on the premises. Burger's Priest (they
               | used to tout this, but since the franchising push, this
               | link is the only mention about grinding their own meat -
               | https://www.recipeunlimited.com/en/franchising/burger-
               | priest...) and Holy Chuck Burgers -
               | https://holychuckburgers.com/.
               | 
               | Some meat sellers mechanically tenderize (blading) their
               | cuts of beef. This may cause E.coli on the surface of the
               | beef to enter the interior of the beef. Costco was linked
               | to E.coli cases in 2012 due to this practice. See
               | https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/06/has-
               | you...
        
           | tomp wrote:
           | That doesn't make sense. It's beef.
           | 
           | If you can serve a steak medium, then you can also grind the
           | steak, cook it medium and serve it.
        
             | cma wrote:
             | Then you get bacteria in the ground part, potentially,
             | whereas a steak will be cooked on all the exposed surfaces.
        
               | tomp wrote:
               | Um, it's beef. It can be eaten raw. Ever heard of
               | carpaccio?!?
               | 
               | Only two reasons to ever cook beef: (1) taste (2) quality
        
               | BenjiWiebe wrote:
               | The exterior of a cut can be seared and then trimmed off
               | to get a safe chunk of raw beef.
        
             | ilyin wrote:
             | A whole steak doesn't contain pathogens deep within, only
             | on the surface, which is why ground beef is different
             | situation entirely.
        
         | pshc wrote:
         | The burgers they show on TV are pure junk food, let's be real.
        
         | EasyMark wrote:
         | Hamburgers on whole wheat are a staple in my life. The war on
         | saturated fat and red meat is ridiculous
        
       | ApolloFortyNine wrote:
       | I could see supporting with this, but it does seem like an abuse
       | of the 'for the children' argument for this.
       | 
       | Children pretty much have to eat what you give them until they
       | get a job.
       | 
       | Also some chicken nuggets are bad, but some average a gram of
       | protein per 10 calories, which is a pretty good ratio, and
       | especially for frozen food. Can't help but think this is too
       | broad.
        
         | bobthepanda wrote:
         | more so in the past, there was a lot more food advertising
         | directed at kids, because the thought was that kids could annoy
         | their parents enough to drag the whole family to an
         | establishment. and some marketing tricks work a lot better on
         | children because of their social settings and general
         | impulsiveness (e.g. "All the cool kids have Lunchables")
        
           | chgs wrote:
           | The milky bar kid is strong and tough
           | 
           | The red car and the blue car had a race
           | 
           | Turn the milk chocolatey
           | 
           | Keep hunger locked up tip lunch
           | 
           | I have tried to avoid adverts for 20 years, but the adverts
           | of my childhood (not just ones aimed at kids - autoglass
           | repair and replace, safe style do buy one get one free, dfs
           | sale ends Sunday, ronseal quick drying wood stain does
           | exactly what it says on the tin)
           | 
           | The brainwashing is sickening.
        
             | WWLink wrote:
             | HEAD ON! APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD!!!!!
        
             | laurieg wrote:
             | I still remember phone numbers from radio ads I heard as a
             | kid. I don't have any phone number memorized apart from my
             | own
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | All red wants to do is stuff his face! Overeating bad,
             | according to that ad. Other than Milky Ways.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | > autoglass repair and replace, safe style do buy one get
             | one free, dfs sale ends Sunday, ronseal quick drying wood
             | stain does exactly what it says on the tin
             | 
             | A golem carved out of butter playing a trombone, an
             | animated blue telephone, a puppy stealing toilet paper,
             | Boddingtons.
             | 
             | Same vibes, different details.
        
         | anotheracc88 wrote:
         | This is not systems thinking though. It take a lot of will for
         | parents to fight kids desire for junk food from social pressure
         | alone. Should parents be perfect citizens that make 10000
         | correct micro decisions a month correctly every time? Or can
         | society help a bit by blocking some of the predators?
         | 
         | It is like "just say no". Thay'll do it for drug addicition.
         | Simple.
        
         | petesergeant wrote:
         | > Children pretty much have to eat what you give them until
         | they get a job.
         | 
         | I don't think this is true in practice; it feels sufficiently
         | obvious that children's tastes influence what they get fed that
         | I'm not going to bother to find a citation
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | > Children pretty much have to eat what you give them until
         | they get a job.
         | 
         | I don't believe you have children of your own; is this an
         | armchair opinion or your own lived experience?
         | 
         | Anyway while on paper this is true, in practice kids will ask
         | for this and may get it as a treat, or they may get it from
         | somewhere else. And as a one-off, that's fine, but they do get
         | influenced by ads to want more of it at any time. Same with
         | fast food chains, somehow the ones that aren't available where
         | I live got an almost mythical status with the teenager here. A
         | Taco Bell did open here but honestly it was mediocre and
         | overpriced.
        
           | xxs wrote:
           | Teens and so would be given money to buy food themselves,
           | e.g. before/after going to football training, swimming,
           | dancing etc.
           | 
           | Indeed, it's unrealistic to expect all kids would be served
           | food and observed while eating.
        
         | worble wrote:
         | >Children pretty much have to eat what you give them until they
         | get a job.
         | 
         | Damn, someone better ring up the cereal companies and tell them
         | to stop advertising, I bet they'll feel foolish realizing
         | they've wasted all that money!
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | > Children pretty much have to eat what you give them until
         | they get a job.
         | 
         | So.. then.. why are we advertising to them _at all_?
        
         | WD-42 wrote:
         | > Children pretty much have to eat what you give them until
         | they get a job.
         | 
         | If true why do cereal companies spend billions on advertising
         | directly to children? For the fun of it?
        
           | phyzix5761 wrote:
           | I think its so children are open to eating it after the
           | parents have bought it. If the food doesn't look appealing
           | the parent will have to work harder but its the parents
           | making the food choices not the child. Most of the time
           | children don't even go to the grocery store with their
           | parents.
        
             | WD-42 wrote:
             | Tell me you have never had kids without telling me you've
             | never had kids.
        
               | phyzix5761 wrote:
               | I have children
        
             | NicuCalcea wrote:
             | So parents buy unhealthy food for their children without
             | any prompting, and the kids need to have their minds opened
             | to it by advertising, otherwise they wouldn't it?
        
               | phyzix5761 wrote:
               | I'm sure the cartoons and colors help the kids get
               | motivated to eat the cereal
        
               | WD-42 wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure the massive amounts of sugar is all the
               | motivation they need.
        
               | phyzix5761 wrote:
               | How do they know it has sugar just by looking at the food
               | or the packaging?
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | the rainbow colored marshmallows tip them off.
        
           | someotherperson wrote:
           | Through my own experiences I feel that if the parents allow
           | them to have cereal as a starter, then the choice between
           | Frosted Flakes and Cinnamon Toast Crunch will be up to the
           | kid.
           | 
           | Personally I came from a family that never had cereal for
           | breakfast, so that advertising never affected me -- it's not
           | like I'd ever have it.
        
       | ojagodzinski wrote:
       | cool but nobody watches TV this days.
        
         | anticorporate wrote:
         | I mean, that's objectively disproved by the advertising
         | industry who is profiting from these ads.
         | 
         | Maybe you and I aren't, but lots of people are.
        
       | Eumenes wrote:
       | this is exactly the type of policy you'd expect from a governing
       | body that is completely out of touch with the working class. I
       | can imagine the cambridge, UCL, and oxford graduates patting
       | eachother on the back after the meeting, congratulating
       | themselves on solving childhood obesity.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | It's what you'd expect of a country that's rapidly diving into
         | Orwellian dystopia.
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | Do you actually live in the UK or is this based on Musk
           | tweets?
        
             | Argonaut998 wrote:
             | NTA but I went to London for new years two years ago and it
             | was worse than Musk's tweets.
             | 
             | "See it. Say it. Sort it"
             | 
             | Ugh
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | I live in the UK. It is far from perfect and the laws
               | restricting the right to peaceful protest (enacted by the
               | last government) had a very unwelcome authoritarian edge.
               | But I don't see it "rapidly diving into Orwellian
               | dystopia".
               | 
               | Also London, is very different to the rest of the UK, in
               | many ways.
               | 
               | >"See it. Say it. Sort it"
               | 
               | You know that the UK has a long history of terrorists
               | placing bombs on public transport?
        
               | pixxel wrote:
               | > I live in the UK
               | 
               | Do you live in all of the UK?
        
           | Woeps wrote:
           | Uhm... the country we're talking about is the UK. Not some US
           | state...
        
       | jsyang00 wrote:
       | Yes, it's the ads. After all, we know how economical and fast it
       | is for people to access healthy meals. I look forward to the
       | speedy eradication of all obesity problems
        
         | anotheracc88 wrote:
         | The perfect. Enemy of the good.
        
       | jackjeff wrote:
       | If only I ever watched ads on live TV I would have noticed...
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Can we have one or several months without ads of any kind?
       | 
       | Perhaps then we can appreciate a world without ads more.
       | 
       | It might also reduce the environmental burden of overconsumption.
        
         | petesergeant wrote:
         | Move to the UK and only watch the BBC, and yes
        
           | b800h wrote:
           | That's not ad-free. You have to put up with ads for a load of
           | BBC programmes which will almost inevitably contain a slew of
           | progressive messaging.
        
             | tonyedgecombe wrote:
             | The BBC is ad free in the UK.
        
               | Fnoord wrote:
               | Not whole UK, as they've been banning VPNs from iPlayer.
        
           | aembleton wrote:
           | Plenty of guests on shows promoting a new film or book. We
           | still have billboards advertising stuff.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | It is amazing when you visit a city that has banned billboards
         | especially when coming from one that does not.
         | 
         | It's the same (opposite) feeling you get when watching an ad
         | free streaming service and the switch to live TV or Prime.
         | Which is just like switching to a browser with out uBO.
         | 
         | If society went 30 days with a universal uBO experience, I
         | think all wars would end, cats & dogs sleeping together,
         | shields would become plow. You know, basically peace on earth.
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | Every once in a while I end up with a browser without
           | adblocker. It baffles me how anyone would want to use the WWW
           | like that. I cannot fathom, they're missing out, but at the
           | end: those people plus the ones paying for services (which is
           | sometimes me) are financing the platforms.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | Well, allegedly funding their platforms. Not all ads
             | convert.
        
         | alecco wrote:
         | IMHO the only way they'll pay attention if enough of us turn it
         | all off.
        
       | jasonlfunk wrote:
       | I just hope that the US can ban ads for pharmaceuticals.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | Never happen. There's a place called Canada though...
        
           | nxm wrote:
           | Same was said of tobacco... and I don't see any ads on TV for
           | tobacco.
        
         | bdzr wrote:
         | Why?
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | I hear crumpets are also frowned on - my favourite breakfast
       | food!
        
       | steviedotboston wrote:
       | what about sausage rolls and meal deals?
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | future headline: A UK man was found dead in his flat after his TV
       | broke. apparently he had starved to death after not being
       | reminded of the existence of food by the ads.
        
       | cryptozeus wrote:
       | Good that they are trying but " ...aired after the 9:00 pm"
       | running ads after 9 pm is even worst. If you need to consume
       | sugar you might as well do it in day time.
        
         | xxs wrote:
         | It's about kids, ads targeted at kids (according to the
         | article)
        
         | wrboyce wrote:
         | A lot of the regulations around what is and isn't allowed on TV
         | in the UK change at 2100, we call it the "watershed" which is
         | regulated by OfCom (the communications ombudsman).
         | 
         | https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/broadcast-st...
        
       | contingencies wrote:
       | The significant background that the UK just delivered a _House of
       | Lords_ enquiry in to the food system[0] which recommended a
       | "complete ban" on junk food advertising and that the government
       | ban junk food vendors from regulatory feedback. You can bet the
       | consumer packaged goods (CPG) AKA 'junk food industry' - the
       | likes of _Mondelez_ , etc. - are actively resisting these changes
       | with all manner of false reports, shoddy advertising doublespeak
       | and back-channel arrangements. Given this background, the ban is
       | relatively light touch. Expect further developments.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5901/ldselect/ldmfdo...
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | What about alcohol? Or other carb heavy or sugar heavy products?
       | Why these?
        
         | seabass-labrax wrote:
         | As referenced by beejiu elsewhere on this thread[1], it applies
         | to all foods products based on their nutritional content; there
         | are no exemptions. Alcohol, however, does appear not to be
         | covered by these new rules, but there are existing restrictions
         | about advertising alcohol - [2] is one document on the topic,
         | although I can't immediately tell if it's out of date.
         | 
         | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42360734
         | 
         | [2]:
         | https://www.asa.org.uk/static/uploaded/d3683dc1-189e-413c-86...
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | Advertising alcohol to children is, of course, already illegal.
        
       | JSDevOps wrote:
       | This will make zero difference these days.
        
       | phyzix5761 wrote:
       | Help me understand. The UK government basically said that parents
       | are not responsible enough to make dietary decisions for their
       | children so the government needs to step in and do it for them?
       | 
       | Does that not seem like an overreach? Its not like 4 year olds
       | are driving to McDonald's by themselves and ordering burgers. The
       | parents are the ones being targeted here.
        
         | Argonaut998 wrote:
         | The UK is so far gone with government overreach at this point.
         | They don't seem to mind.
        
         | widdershins wrote:
         | I'm not sure what you're getting at. They banned certain
         | advertisments at a particular time of day. They didn't ban
         | parents from giving their children whatever thet want to give
         | them.
        
         | forinti wrote:
         | They're not prohibiting anyone from feeding these things to
         | their children. A lot of people will continue to do so.
         | 
         | The government would have to spend a lot of money on counter-
         | campaigns to keep the public well informed and it probably
         | wouldn't have the desired effect on children.
         | 
         | Finally, and this is a very important point for me, children
         | cannot enter into business deals/contracts; commercials are
         | business proposals; hence there should be no ads targeting
         | children.
        
         | majormajor wrote:
         | It's more "we don't want corporations selling unhealthy junk to
         | have direct access to influence super-impressional kids" -
         | cause guess what, in that case? You can be a perfectly
         | responsible parent dietary-decision-wise, but have your kids
         | whine and complain constantly because the kids _aren 't_
         | informed about the problems of it and just want the tasty shit
         | they saw all the ads for.
         | 
         | Would you allow salespeople into your home to pitch your kids
         | on stuff all day if they were in-person instead of on a screen?
         | 
         | Why not complain about the overreach of irresponsible companies
         | trying to convince kids who have no way of knowing better to
         | start damaging their long-term health?
        
           | phyzix5761 wrote:
           | As a parent I don't let my children watch things I disagree
           | with. They can probably count the number of food ads they've
           | seen in 1 hand because I don't let them watch TV. They can
           | watch shows and movies but they're either streamed or checked
           | out of the library.
           | 
           | But that's the way I choose to parent my child. If another
           | parent wants their children to watch TV and be exposed to
           | those ads then they should have every right. I'm not going to
           | make a moral decision for them and I don't think the
           | government should either.
        
             | frereubu wrote:
             | What about the (large, I would argue) slice of parents who
             | want to let their kids watch TV but don't want them
             | bombarded with ads for sugar-saturated foods?
             | 
             | (I mean, we're on HN, so the obvious answer is watching
             | things on a laptop / projector with Firefox + uBlock
             | Origin, but y'know - everyone else).
        
               | phyzix5761 wrote:
               | Those parents need to find solutions that don't involve
               | forcing their morality on others. Thats how we get
               | xenophobic and homophobic people voting to control
               | women's bodies because they think others should do
               | whatever they believe is moral and right.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | > Those parents need to find solutions that don't involve
               | forcing their morality on others
               | 
               | I believe forbidding these ads is morally good, but it's
               | not just morality. It's knowledge backed by studies:
               | 
               | - children are easily influenced
               | 
               | - burgers cause public health issues that harm the
               | individuals, and cost greatly to the society in
               | healthcare
               | 
               | It's not a stance like "I believe women should not abort
               | because God" (to take your example). It's a law aiming to
               | reduce costs and and improve public health.
               | 
               | This laws doesn't prevent parents from speaking about
               | burgers to their children, and doesn't prevent TV from
               | speaking about them neither. It's not a freedom of speech
               | issue.
               | 
               | There's an imbalance between the power of the big
               | corporations and the power of the individuals and this
               | law pushes the needle a bit towards the individuals. You
               | the individual freedom defender should be happy with this
               | :-)
        
               | phyzix5761 wrote:
               | Although I never made an argument regarding free speech
               | we can say that this does prevent free speech because it
               | prevents companies from speaking about their products
               | through advertisements. Remember that business owners are
               | people too. Often times they're citizens of the countries
               | in which they're doing business.
               | 
               | I think most people tend to forget that and view
               | companies as soulless abstract entities. In the US 99.9%
               | (99.8% in the UK) of businesses are small businesses run
               | by very few individuals who are just trying to make ends
               | meet. If you remove the ability to advertise these
               | products it doesn't hurt the big companies. They're
               | established and have recognizable brands. But small
               | businesses can't afford to lose their main way of finding
               | customers. Eventually, they go out of business. This only
               | helps the large corporations become even larger.
               | 
               | > There's an imbalance between the power of the big
               | corporations and the power of the individuals...
               | 
               | Where is the imbalance of power in the scenario of
               | burgers being advertised? All advertisement is designed
               | to persuade the viewer to purchase the product or
               | service. Marketing is a normal part of running a
               | business. Children may be influenced by the commercials
               | but so are adults. Should we ban all advertising now?
               | 
               | > - burgers cause public health issues that harm the
               | individuals, and cost greatly to the society in
               | healthcare
               | 
               | While burgers may not be the healthiest food, if you're a
               | low income individual who can't access more expensive,
               | healthier foods, burgers are nutrient and calorically
               | rich and they're cheap.
               | 
               | A burger to someone living below the poverty line without
               | access to food is a life saver. Its all about context and
               | perspective.
        
               | pacoWebConsult wrote:
               | Case in point for why socialized medicine leads to
               | government overreach in many other facets of our lives.
               | 
               | Milton Friedman had a great point during this talk [1],
               | same argument from 50 years ago.
               | 
               | 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWIrbS0dXRM
        
             | themk wrote:
             | I'm the same. My children are practically never exposed to
             | these ads. But, all their peers are.
             | 
             | My kids have never had any fast food, and have never seen
             | an ad, but they talk about KFC and McDonald's constantly.
             | It all comes from their friends at school.
        
         | jraph wrote:
         | Children are totally targeted. They will ask their parents and
         | put pressure to buy them stuff. Maybe even the parents who
         | don't cave in can be relieved of this.
         | 
         | In the longer term, stuff that enters your brain as a child
         | shapes you and lasts long. See how well how many people in
         | their 30s remember ads of their childhood.
         | 
         | Why would someone defend such ads anyway? I don't believe they
         | achieve anything good for anyone except the advertiser.
        
           | phyzix5761 wrote:
           | Its because I don't want the government, people who I've
           | never met in person and honestly are not the most moral of
           | individuals, making moral decisions for my children on my
           | behalf.
           | 
           | Even if the majority of citizens agreed that forcing their
           | morality on the minority is the right thing to do I still
           | disagree because individual freedom is more important than
           | majority opinion.
        
             | MiguelX413 wrote:
             | What's the point of laws if not forcing morality?
        
               | phyzix5761 wrote:
               | Protecting individual rights and freedoms
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | Not at the cost of harming people, usually. Its role is
               | also to protect individuals themselves.
               | 
               | Infinite individual freedom doesn't exist, it stops where
               | others' individual freedom starts.
        
               | phyzix5761 wrote:
               | Absolutely. Individuals should have rights and freedoms
               | as long as they don't harm another's.
        
               | alex_lav wrote:
               | > Not at the cost of harming people,
               | 
               | What defines harm? Or more specifically, who?
        
             | dijksterhuis wrote:
             | > I still disagree because individual freedom is more
             | important than majority opinion.
             | 
             | this read suspiciously like a stereotypical US opinion
             | regarding individual rights vs rights of the majority.
             | 
             | so i went and looked through your comment history and i now
             | i suspect even more strongly that you are US based.
             | 
             | > Its because I don't want the government, people who I've
             | never met in person and honestly are not the most moral of
             | individuals, making moral decisions for my children on my
             | behalf.
             | 
             | it's not your government doing this. you can relax.
             | 
             | also, we in the UK value the balance between individual
             | rights and collective societal rights more strongly than
             | you do. it's our thing. if you don't like it, it doesnt
             | matter, you don't live here.
        
               | phyzix5761 wrote:
               | Just because someone doesn't live in a particular region
               | doesn't mean they can't have opinions on broader
               | implications of these reforms.
        
               | dijksterhuis wrote:
               | sure, except there are no broader implications for you
               | right now.
               | 
               | worry about that when it comes around pal. you're just
               | wasting energy right now spreading FUD.
               | 
               | what im basically saying here is, yes, you're entitled to
               | have an opinion.
               | 
               | but i'm also entitled to have an opinion that your
               | opinion is meaningless and irrelevant to the subject at
               | hand.
               | 
               | which is what i am expressing.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | > this read suspiciously like a stereotypical US opinion
               | regarding individual rights vs rights of the majority.
               | 
               | Good. Majorities shouldn't be able to steamroller
               | minorities.
        
               | devinrf wrote:
               | > "we in the UK value the balance between individual
               | rights and collective societal rights more strongly than
               | you do"
               | 
               | isn't this also the place where you can go to jail for
               | what you say online? orwell's probably rolling in his
               | grave somewhere in London
        
             | jraph wrote:
             | > Its because I don't want the government, people who I've
             | never met in person and honestly are not the most moral of
             | individuals, making moral decisions for my children on my
             | behalf.
             | 
             | But without the law, they are doing the moral decision of
             | allowing the hurtful ads. There's no neutral state. The
             | government has to pick a side anyway. So let's pick the
             | side favorable to the citizens?
             | 
             | > individual freedom is more important than majority
             | opinion
             | 
             | Isn't this a contradiction? If the majority wants
             | something, you are hurting the individual freedom of the
             | greatest number of people.
        
               | phyzix5761 wrote:
               | > But without the law, they are doing the moral decision
               | of allowing the hurtful ads. There's no neutral state.
               | The government has to pick a side anyway. So let's pick
               | the side favorable to the citizens?
               | 
               | The idea of the government 'picking a side' is
               | problematic because it assumes a one-size-fits-all
               | solution that may not align with everyone's values.
               | Allowing ads isn't endorsing them; it's respecting
               | freedom of speech and trusting individuals to make their
               | own choices. Once the government starts deciding which
               | speech is acceptable, it opens the door for abuse and
               | subjective enforcement, which can harm citizens more than
               | it helps.
               | 
               | The free market should decide whether they want to be
               | exposed to ads or not by voting with their dollars. If an
               | ad campaign doesn't produce the results a company wants
               | they pull the ads and try something else.
               | 
               | > Isn't this a contradiction? If the majority wants
               | something, you are hurting the individual freedom of the
               | greatest number of people.
               | 
               | Individual freedom means the freedom to do, say, or think
               | whatever you please as long as you don't harm another or
               | their property. The will of the majority to force the
               | minority to behave a certain way is not freedom. The
               | majority is free to act however they want as long as it
               | doesn't harm others but they shouldn't be allowed to
               | force others to behave a certain way.
               | 
               | Majority opinion can lead to tyranny if it infringes on
               | the rights of individuals. History offers countless
               | examples of majorities oppressing minorities. The role of
               | a just society is to protect each person's right to life,
               | liberty, and property, even when the majority disagrees.
               | 
               | The focus should be on safeguarding universal rights
               | rather than catering to the fluctuating preferences of a
               | majority.
        
             | bdzr wrote:
             | Don't forget that this emboldens the government to define
             | what is and isn't healthy. Something that's worked out
             | super well in the US.
        
             | alex_lav wrote:
             | Shame I had to scroll this far to get to this comment. I
             | have absolutely no idea why, in 2024, people still think we
             | should let the government decide what is good/what we can
             | see/what others can say.
        
         | mirsadm wrote:
         | Do you have children? They're targeted with ads _everywhere_.
         | You can be a responsible parent but these things cause
         | unnecessary stress. Quite frankly if the government wants to
         | ban all advertising I would be thrilled.
        
           | phyzix5761 wrote:
           | I do have children and I don't let them be exposed to things
           | I disagree with. But thats my moral decision. Why should my
           | morality be forced on others? Making the decision to not
           | expose your children to certain ads is a moral decision. Let
           | the parents choose if its important for them. They can choose
           | exactly what kind of content their children watch with
           | streaming and DVDs. Long gone are the days where kids just
           | sat in front a television and had to watch live cable TV
           | where the parents didn't know what was coming up next.
        
             | duckmysick wrote:
             | You, as an individual, can still play the adverts to your
             | children. The regulation is targeting the advertisers.
        
         | dcre wrote:
         | They should keep reaching and ban the rest of the ads.
        
         | snovymgodym wrote:
         | That's a great way to frame the whole thing if you're a
         | corporation trying to sell junk food I guess.
         | 
         | In reality, this law is only about advertising, specifically
         | about making it slightly harder to target children with
         | advertising for junk food in a country that already has a
         | serious problem with obesity.
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | >The UK government basically said that parents are not
         | responsible enough to make dietary decisions for their children
         | so the government needs to step in and do it for them?
         | 
         | Stand outside any school gate in the UK and you will see that
         | the majority of parents "aren't responsible enough to make
         | dietary decisions for their children".
         | 
         | I'm fairly relaxed about it simply because this is a response
         | to the behaviour of these corporations.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | ... No, that's not what it says at all.
         | 
         | The level of reading comprehension on this website really is
         | astonishingly low. It's about restrictions on advertising, not
         | bans on products.
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | What a useless, idle government. This is just pretending to work.
       | Next, they'll raise the price of alcohol 10%, and make the
       | penalties for "knife crime" 10% longer. Western governments have
       | ceased to function for anything other than graft.
       | 
       | There's a good paper (more than one, actually) on this that I
       | wish I could recall offhand; but outside of graft, Western
       | governments can only manage to _govern_ (and not particularly
       | well) during sudden emergencies, like natural disasters. Other
       | than that, they 're running worthless lifestyle campaigns to
       | justify their continued existence to a faddish public, like this.
       | 
       | The reduction of sales for cereals, muffins, and burgers will be
       | non-existent. British children will remain fat. We will remain in
       | thrall to a useless politics of trendy middle-class aesthetics,
       | cheered on by celebrities.
        
       | narrator wrote:
       | Is there a name for an ideology that says all social and economic
       | problems can be solved through mass psychology? You could call it
       | psychohistory perhaps, but there's got to be a newer term. Seems
       | like it's the dominant ideology of a variety of technocrats.
       | 
       | Yes there are psychological aspects to governance but more and
       | more it's becoming the only solution to all problems. Obesity is
       | skyrocketing? It's the psychology. People don't like unlimited
       | immigration? Get out the mass psychology. People perceive that
       | inflation is out of control. Get out the mass psychology. Market
       | is down. Employ mass psychology. People don't give a crap about a
       | war that they have no stake in. Mass psychology. I guess
       | propaganda works and it's very cheap, lol.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | I think it's traditionally called advertising.
        
         | nonrandomstring wrote:
         | Public Relations - Edward Bernays [0]
         | 
         | Propaganda - Edward Bernays in 1928 [1]
         | 
         | Public opinion - Walter Lippmann 1947 [2]
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Relations_(book)
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_(book)
         | 
         | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Opinion_(book)
        
         | ausbah wrote:
         | something involving ppl following whatever the political or
         | media firestorm of the moment is, and most ppl more likely to
         | just follow whatever the party line is?
        
         | ajb wrote:
         | The recent fashionable term is "nudge theory"
        
           | switch007 wrote:
           | See also
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_Insights_Team as
           | an implementation
        
         | pandoro wrote:
         | On this subject I highly recommend the documentary "the Century
         | of the Self" (produced by Adam Curtis for the BBC). It explores
         | how Sigmund Freud's theories about the unconscious mind were
         | used by his nephew Edward Bernays to create modern public
         | relations and consumer culture. The documentary shows how
         | corporations and governments learned to manipulate mass desires
         | using psychological techniques, transforming democracy from
         | meeting people's needs to managing their wants through
         | consumption and marketing.
         | 
         | The entire doc is on Youtube: https://youtu.be/GFwDc17WZ-A
        
         | mym1990 wrote:
         | Psychohistory is already a study of the past and why it
         | happened the way it did, so maybe it could help answer your
         | question, but it isn't the ideology you're seeking.
         | 
         | There is a reason that advertising and media influence is
         | _everywhere_ , it is a cheap and has a decent return on
         | investment, whether that is actual revenue or just a shift in
         | people's perspective.
        
         | Angostura wrote:
         | You may be thinking of Nudge Theory
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | ... I mean, in this case, it's a problem being _caused_ by mass
         | psychology (that's what advertising is).
        
       | quotemstr wrote:
       | What's TV? Some kind of primitive multicast YouTube?
       | 
       | Anything TV related is irrelevant nowadays
        
       | democritas wrote:
       | wish we wouldn't keep demonizing fat though, if you decrease one
       | form of energy intake (sugar) you have to increase another form
       | of energy intake, no problem with this being fat, as long as it's
       | naturally occurring in the environment and thus among our
       | adaptations.
        
         | aembleton wrote:
         | > if you decrease one form of energy intake (sugar) you have to
         | increase another form of energy intake
         | 
         | We have an obesity problem in the UK. We need to reduce overall
         | calorific intake.
        
       | jamesu wrote:
       | One thing I noticed is during UK Daytime TV is there are a
       | comical amount of funeral and life insurance ads, it's incredibly
       | depressing.
        
         | eterm wrote:
         | That's the demographics of who watches daytime TV.
         | 
         | Also note that advertising of prescription pharmaceuticals is
         | already banned, which would likely be another large advertiser
         | were that not the case.
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | Plus adverts for stair lifts and laxatives showing the
         | healthiest looking old people you have ever seen.
        
       | ch0wn wrote:
       | A good move but it's still mad to me that we're banning junk food
       | ads while fossil fuel ads are still allowed which are creating
       | damage many orders of magnitudes greater than a muffin ever
       | could.
        
         | aembleton wrote:
         | Fossil fuels are being tackled by phasing out new ICE car sales
         | by 2035. 22% of new cars this year have to be zero emissions
         | (EVs).
        
         | dnissley wrote:
         | What is a fossil fuel ad? I don't think I've ever seen an ad
         | for e.g. a gas station. Car ads maybe?
        
       | emrah wrote:
       | So UK doesn't have freedom of speech any more? If the products
       | are bad for people/kids/etc, why not ban the products instead of
       | just the ads?
        
         | Retric wrote:
         | UK never had freedom of speech the way we think of it in the
         | US.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingd...
         | I highlighted the explicit loophole here:
         | 
         | "Article 10 - Freedom of expression
         | 
         | Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right
         | shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and
         | impart information and ideas without interference by public
         | authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not
         | prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting,
         | television or cinema enterprises.
         | 
         | The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties
         | and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities,
         | conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law
         | and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of
         | national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for
         | the prevention of disorder or crime, _for the protection of
         | health or morals,_ for the protection of the reputation or
         | rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information
         | received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and
         | impartiality of the judiciary."
        
         | rfrey wrote:
         | Is it legal in the US to directly market cigarettes to
         | children? Why not?
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | An interesting wrinkle in the cigarettes example is it's
           | illegal sell them to kids.
           | 
           | So advertising to kids is actively trying to conduct an
           | illegal transaction.
        
             | NicuCalcea wrote:
             | As far as I know, the US bans all tobacco advertising on
             | TV. And obviously adults can still smoke.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Radio and TV has long had more limited free speech
               | protections because it's a shared and thus finite
               | resource. Thus the fines for curse words, nudity, etc.
               | 
               | Banning in magazines targeting kids is a separate
               | question.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | All these laws make me want to step outside and take a
               | long, smooth drag on a Marlboro Light.
        
       | Funes- wrote:
       | What about no ads, at all? Have you ever thought of that? Just
       | stop and consider the ramifications of such a ban. Most junk on
       | TV and the Internet would not exist once people were forced to
       | pay directly for consuming (eugh) it. YouTube would go back to
       | what it was almost twenty years ago, for one. Imagine a Google
       | with no ad-ridden, SEO-tweaked, LLM-generated sites in the
       | results, not a single mainstream media outlet to be seen... one
       | can only dream. Now, for junk food (the actual subject of this
       | thread), I wager its sales would be severely diminished, or
       | heavily diversified between other, less successful brands, at
       | least.
        
       | tim333 wrote:
       | Glad they got that through - the argument's been going on for
       | ages. Here's a 2006 "Total ban for junk food ads around kids'
       | shows" article
       | https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/nov/17/health.food
       | 
       | But I don't think they did sugary breakfast cereals because
       | Kelloggs et al made a fuss.
        
       | robertlagrant wrote:
       | Given so many kids watch the state-funded CBeebies, which doesn't
       | need ads, or YouTube or Netflix, which presumably this won't
       | cover, this is probably just another chance for TV companies to
       | stop broadcasting kids' content at all.
        
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