[HN Gopher] Chuck E. Cheese's animatronics band bows out
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       Chuck E. Cheese's animatronics band bows out
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 199 points
       Date   : 2024-12-03 11:18 UTC (6 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
        
       | tracerbulletx wrote:
       | Anybody vaguely interested in this story would probably enjoy
       | this documentary about the the direct ancestor of this band.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTmhS6hcY-A
        
         | sitkack wrote:
         | Let this be a warning in what your children get exposed to,
         | they could be making a documentary in their 30s or 40s. /s
         | 
         | These kids had an existential experience triggered by
         | animatronic band. It was sweet to see how honest they were.
        
           | Triphibian wrote:
           | I hope I live to see an earnestly made Skibidi Toilet
           | documentary.
        
         | uncertainrhymes wrote:
         | Also worth listening to this excellent podcast about the two
         | competing pizza-animatronic chains. The history is bizarre --
         | they were meant to make an 'arcade' feel less like a place for
         | delinquents, and give the parents a chance to drink and watch
         | the 'show'.
         | 
         | https://slate.com/podcasts/decoder-ring/2019/06/decoder-ring...
        
       | prettyStandard wrote:
       | I'm getting some real country bear jamboree vibes from that bear.
        
         | Jgrubb wrote:
         | ...which, my wife tells me, has also seen an overhaul lately.
        
           | crooked-v wrote:
           | Yeah, the updated version is basically a jukebox of modern
           | pop and Disney songs with some light 'country' gilding. But,
           | they did do a substantial refurb and upgrade of the
           | animatronics themselves, which are working better than they
           | have in a long time.
        
       | Isamu wrote:
       | Easily the worst pizza I've ever eaten anywhere, the poorest
       | quality control ever. But the kids had fun.
        
         | notyourwork wrote:
         | Not sure why there would be any surprise. They aren't in the
         | pizza business. They are in the waste children's time business.
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | Nate Bargatze has a pretty good bit on Chuck E Cheese:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHrcGFKgWGY
        
           | seism wrote:
           | As did John Oliver
           | https://youtu.be/3v6y2pY1pZ0?si=0SBXDOD025rM55dB
        
             | latentsea wrote:
             | Oh boy he did not disappoint!
        
         | dannyphantom wrote:
         | I was probably around ~5(ish) years old when I went to Chuck E.
         | Cheese for a birthday party; distinctly remember disliking the
         | pizza (and cheese, by extension) so much that I thought I
         | *hated* pizza altogether until I was ~16(ish) and started
         | working at a local pizza place in town called Valeos where we'd
         | get a free 16in to take home after every shift. I still use
         | their sauce recipe to this day it's literally so good!
         | 
         | At the time, I think a friends mom [jokingly] said the pizza
         | was 'cardboard' and I began crying as I genuinely believed it
         | was actual cardboard
        
           | irrational wrote:
           | Are you able or willing to share the sauce recipe?
        
             | dannyphantom wrote:
             | absolutely :)
             | 
             | [we were a thin-crust only type of place; we also used a
             | little handful of cornmeal as it was placed in the brick
             | oven to prevent the crust from sticking - it adds a little
             | extra flavor and texture to the pizza :)]
             | 
             | In a pot, placed on medium-heat on the stove top, add:
             | 
             | - 2tbsp EVOO
             | 
             | - two twigs of fresh oregano, crushed or finely chopped (to
             | express the oils in the plant)
             | 
             | - 1/4 white onion, minced very finely
             | 
             | - 1/4 yellow onion, minced very finely
             | 
             | - 2-3 squished cloves of roasted garlic (cut the top part
             | from a bulb of garlic, add some EVOO and bake @ 400 for
             | ~30(ish) minutes; be sure to do it in foil or the ceramic
             | baking dishes for roasting garlic!)
             | 
             | - 1tbsp of salt mixed with black pepper and crushed red
             | pepper flakes
             | 
             | Until onions are translucent and aromatic
             | 
             | Then add:
             | 
             | - 1 large can of Cento-brand peeled San Marzano tomatoes
             | 
             | Stir intermittently until sauce develops a deep red color
             | and you can use it right away or keep it in the fridge!
             | 
             | - As it cools, add in a handful (1/4 cup) of freshly
             | crumbled Parmesan cheese (you could see the cheese chunks
             | as we applied the sauce to the dough so they weren't large
             | pieces but little(ish) crumbles)
             | 
             | Hope you enjoy it!! :)
        
               | ericd wrote:
               | Ha awesome, stashing this for the next time I make dough.
               | Already have stacks of Cento SMs, since they sell them at
               | Costco and they work well with Marcella Hazan's pasta
               | sauce. Thanks for typing all that out!
        
               | 7thaccount wrote:
               | I was going to guess it wasn't that good until I saw "San
               | Marzano" tomatoes. In my opinion that's the single best
               | decision you can make for pizza sauce. No other tomato
               | comes close.
        
               | TheAmazingRace wrote:
               | Thanks for sharing this recipe!
        
               | shrubble wrote:
               | I have saved that recipe!
               | 
               | The Cento brand and the Nina brand (at least the ones I
               | have) which are often sold at Costco are the ones to get.
               | 
               | Note: you MUST avoid any tomatoes that are packed with
               | calcium chloride, as it greatly increases the time for
               | the tomatoes to fall apart and make good sauce.
        
             | dfxm12 wrote:
             | For a classic Napolitano sauce, open a 28 oz. can of your
             | favorite crushed tomatoes and then mix in 2T extra virgin
             | olive oil, 2 cloves garlic (minced), 1.5t kosher salt.
             | That's it, you're done.
        
           | parpfish wrote:
           | i used to think that the cardboard circle underneath a frozen
           | pizza turned into the crust when you cooked it.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | I was so excited to be invited to my first party there. The
         | pizza was a huge letdown, and Pizza Hut was the best thing I
         | experienced for many, many years, followed by Godfather's.
         | Chuck E. Cheese wasn't even on the list. But I sure had fun on
         | the video games and ski ball.
        
         | Fwirt wrote:
         | Oddly enough, Chuck E Cheese has been trying to "rebrand"
         | itself since COVID. During the pandemic they actually operated
         | as a shadow kitchen pizza chain and possibly as a result, the
         | quality of their pizza (at least at our local restaurant) has
         | substantially improved, to the point that I would rank it above
         | a couple other nationwide chains. The atmosphere is very
         | different from the dark, grody, funky 1980s rat pizza
         | restaurant, and is now a loud party atmosphere with TV screens
         | constantly blasting kiddie music videos. They've shifted their
         | age demographic from "family" to "kids", and their locations
         | have become much cleaner.
        
           | Dwedit wrote:
           | The name of the shadow kitchen is "Pasqually's Pizza &
           | Wings". If you read the "Our Story" page on their website, it
           | says that they "leverage the operational infrastructure of
           | Chuck E. Cheese kitchens across the country".
           | 
           | Pasqually is one of the animatronic characters, he is a chef.
        
             | WorldMaker wrote:
             | As a nerd of a kid who enjoyed "Lore", it amused me when
             | people complaining about Pasqually's Pizza at the time,
             | because I immediately recognized it as the name of the
             | Pizza restaurant inside Chuck E. Cheese, that's what it was
             | always called.
             | 
             | Pasqually is not just the chef (and the drummer), he's the
             | owner of the restaurant in the show. It was always his
             | restaurant, Chuck is just the front man of the band.
        
           | sylens wrote:
           | Yeah I went to one last year for a friend's kid's birthday -
           | the giant playground maze and ball pit is gone, the
           | animatronic stage is gone, it's a big dance floor and more
           | arcade games and even a tiny carousel for toddlers
        
             | resource_waste wrote:
             | Same story.
             | 
             | I enjoyed their multi-flavored pop thing as an adult. I got
             | Caffeine free + some flavored cola thing. I know many
             | places have it, but it was nice.
             | 
             | Pizza was good/fine.
             | 
             | The unlimited gaming thing was nice too.
             | 
             | 15 years ago I'd be like: Gross Chuck-e-cheese.
             | 
             | Today Id be like: Eh... its fine... maybe I'll meet some
             | parent there.
        
             | px43 wrote:
             | I went again recently (less than a year ago) for the first
             | time since the 90s and the animatronics stage was still
             | fully functional. Apparently very few locations are left
             | with working stages, and I was impressed that my local
             | stage had continued operating. They also serve alcohol now
             | or something.
             | 
             | It felt a bit more open, one giant room, but I might just
             | be remembering more walls because I'm taller now than I was
             | when I was 10. Definitely no ball pit though.
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | Have you been in the last few years? We thought the same, but
         | they've gotten a lot better since COVID. Still overpriced, but
         | at least edible (at least if you get the stuffed crust).
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | The funny thing is I remember the pizza being pretty lousy when
         | I was a kid, but when one of my kids had a friend's birthday
         | party there I tried a slice and it was surprisingly decent. The
         | crust was done right, and while the toppings were probably
         | cheap they did at least add some Italian seasoning to it to
         | punch it up.
         | 
         | It was better than a couple of the local pizza chains that have
         | catered some of the other birthday parties we have attended.
        
       | nvahalik wrote:
       | TIL that Nolan Bushnell, of Atari, started Chuck E. Cheese!
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | Chuck E. Cheese's, Silicon Valley Startup (2013) 122 points by
         | duck on Jan 22, 2017 - 14 comments
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13453427
         | 
         | https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/chuck...
         | 
         | http://web.archive.org/web/20170125082102/https://www.theatl...
         | 
         | There's a lot of neat stuff back in
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?q=Chuck+E
        
         | lordfrito wrote:
         | It might have been Nolan's idea, but the first Chuck E. Cheese
         | was actually created, operated, and owned by Atari. Nolan
         | wanted Atari to have a place to operate and profit from the
         | arcade machines they built. But the engineering work, marketing
         | etc. was all done by Atari employees.
         | 
         | When Warner Communications bought Atari from Nolan, they really
         | didn't want the restaurant. So Nolan bought it from them, took
         | it private, and expanded it.
        
         | otterley wrote:
         | And creator of the Pet Rock!
        
       | pjot wrote:
       | For weeks after my grandmother brought me to a Chuck E. Cheese
       | for the first (only) time, I had recurring nightmares fueled by
       | this band.
        
         | 9x39 wrote:
         | No kidding. I peeked behind a literal curtain to see the 'band'
         | cold, dead, and in various states of disrepair on a dark stage
         | at a Chuck E Cheese when I was maybe 8 y/o. I still remember
         | being horrified by the mechanical eyes of a particular
         | animatron without any of the 'fur' on the face.
         | 
         | Never wanted to go back for my birthday, let's say.
        
       | bisby wrote:
       | https://www.sj-r.com/story/news/local/2024/05/28/illinois-ch...
       | 
       | Apparently 5 stores nationwide are being allowed to keep the
       | animatronics.
        
         | cgriswald wrote:
         | For the curious, they are: Los Angeles, CA; Nanuet, NY;
         | Springfield, IL; Pineville, NC; and Hicksville, NY.
        
       | debugnik wrote:
       | I would have expected animatronics to become more popular after
       | Five Nights at Freddy's, not less. But I've never seen a store
       | with animatronics in my country, so I don't really know how kids
       | feel about them.
        
         | Uehreka wrote:
         | Idk, parents took kids to Chuck E. Cheese for the (at the time
         | seemingly) wholesome appeal. Having an extremely popular and
         | visible IP point out how creepy animatronic animals are is not
         | gonna make parents want to take their kids to Chuck E. Cheese
         | more. Nobody wants to take their kids to an "edgy food and
         | entertainment place", that's not a thing. I think this is a
         | great textbook example of "There is such a thing as bad
         | publicity."
        
           | paulryanrogers wrote:
           | Dave and Buster's is an edgy arcade+alcohol place that plenty
           | of people brings kids to. I took some friends who were 19 and
           | 20 and we were turned away at the door.
        
             | parpfish wrote:
             | now's their chance to make dave and buster animatronics.
             | i'm thinking they could be a statler/waldorff style
             | hecklers making fun of the patrons.
        
           | mrsilencedogood wrote:
           | "Nobody wants to take their kids to an "edgy food and
           | entertainment place","
           | 
           | This is 100% wrong though, my 5 year old is in kindergarten
           | and they LOVED FNAF. Like, seriously a lot.
           | 
           | I've done my fair share of Chuck E Cheese birthday parties -
           | the place near me already doesn't have animatronics etc and
           | is virtually unrecognizable by people who knew it in the 90s.
           | It's literally just a single big room with 5 very long tables
           | to host 3-5 birthday parties concurrently, taking up about
           | 40% of the space. Then there's a smallish trampoline area
           | (which requires paying an additional $10 or $15 or somesuch
           | amount) comprising 10% or so, then the other 50% is just
           | arcade machines laid out in a grid that take a card scan
           | instead of coins, and pay out non-tangible credits instead of
           | physical tickets.
           | 
           | So I assume that's the future here - take a low-rent semi-
           | large space off a side-street of a main road, fill it with
           | low-operating-cost stuff, and let it collect revenue. Pretty
           | sensible business, and also utterly soulless and has
           | absolutely no cultural or sticking power.
           | 
           | I really cannot believe FNAF hasn't done some kind of play
           | here - you could absolutely charge 2-4x the price of Chuck E
           | Cheese's parties for a FNAF-themed "what-a-6-year-old-calls-
           | scary" birthday party / event space and no kid would ever go
           | to Chuck E Cheese ever again.
           | 
           | I'm guessing it's because Chuck E Cheese is busy being
           | mediocre and barely existing, and why do physical stuff when
           | you can make millions off selling plushies and funkos.
           | 
           | So I really think this is just a case of capitalism being too
           | lazy and profit-motivated to bother with providing something
           | people - kids - would definitely want.
        
         | sumtechguy wrote:
         | I was a showbiz kid (same thing but different 'band').
         | 
         | For me I really didnt care much one way or the other about the
         | animatronics. You would snarf down your pizza watch the dumb
         | show and go back to the game room. Now some of my friends were
         | smitten by the things. They wanted front row and would try to
         | get the merch.
         | 
         | They were mildly interesting and gave the place a uniqueness
         | over the dozens of other places with video games and pizza.
         | More importantly your parents would be in on it and would take
         | you out to a 'safe' arcade.
         | 
         | When the places where all over the place. It was a tiered
         | system. The showbiz/chuckie places were for kids under 12.
         | Usually much cleaner and less of the older kids bullying the
         | younger ones off the machines. The arcades were for the over 10
         | group and were much less supervised. The people running them
         | would actively discourage older kids from coming in by
         | themselves in groups of 4 or more. If you went in and dropped a
         | couple of quarters and kept to yourself they would ignore you.
         | 
         | I was invited back years later to a CC with a family. The pizza
         | was utter rubish, SB had better pizza. Many of the games were
         | outdated or broken. The place felt worn out and tired and very
         | focused on the ball pit (which any free playground can provide
         | a similar experiance). Not pleasant at all for anyone involved.
         | Pretty sure the animatronics was broken then too.
         | 
         | The five nights thing would be more for the 12+ crowd. CC is
         | squarely aimed at lower aged kids and parents who want 'a
         | break'. They might know about it and have played the game but
         | it would not factor much on if they want to go.
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | I think they are expensive to build, maintain, and ultimately
         | kids are dazzled by video screens now. The economics just
         | aren't there.
        
       | fullshark wrote:
       | I'll take this opportunity to plug the YouTube videos of
       | animatronics super fan Jenny Nicholson. Her videos on the Star
       | Wars hotel: https://youtu.be/T0CpOYZZZW4?si=8bzPpb_9kPaTsTto and
       | the theme park Evermore:
       | https://youtu.be/L9OhTB5eBqQ?si=utwaOeBFRpOQMStx are peak YouTube
       | content.
        
         | ClassyJacket wrote:
         | Jenny Nicholson is one of the best YouTubers, incredibly
         | thorough research, and one of the funniest people on the
         | platform. I just wish she posted more.
        
           | simonw wrote:
           | Her Star Wars hotel video was effectively just her talking to
           | a camera for four hours (2 hours at 2x speed), occasionally
           | sharing a photo or clip, and somehow it was genuinely
           | compelling viewing. Really impressive.
        
             | Sebb767 wrote:
             | > (2 hours at 2x speed)
             | 
             | This is such a strange note. It's far too obvious to be
             | meant as a genuine hint, but a snide remark would not fit
             | your otherwise positive comment.
             | 
             | Genuine question, why did you put this in?
        
               | marcellus23 wrote:
               | Maybe he just included it because that's how fast he
               | watched it? Doesn't have to have a purpose beyond
               | informational.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | She does talk a bit slower than average, but I tend to
               | YouTube at 1.5-1.75x, so 2x wasn't much more.
        
               | aoanevdus wrote:
               | Some people watch/listen to everything in sped up mode.
               | It may not be intended as a slight against the content.
        
               | simonw wrote:
               | Because it's important context. I didn't spend to give
               | the incorrect impression that I found the content so
               | compelling that I spent 4 hours watching it when I
               | actually watched it for 2 hours.
               | 
               | I also like to remind people that you don't have to spend
               | 4 hours of your time to watch a 4 hour video.
        
           | MPSimmons wrote:
           | I enjoyed her Star Wars hotel review enough that I watched a
           | ton of her other videos. The thing that bugged me about her
           | channel, and the reason I unsubscribed, is because I couldn't
           | see any evidence that she ever really liked anything. She
           | never had a positive review of a thing. Every video was
           | taking something apart and criticizing it. I think her take
           | down of the SW hotel was probably just, but it's exhausting
           | hearing from someone who only finds flaws in things.
        
             | moron4hire wrote:
             | This is an issue I noticed about her, too. It's an
             | archetype of person I've noticed in others, especially back
             | in the small town I grew up in: they get enjoyment out of
             | _not enjoying_ things.
             | 
             | For the uninitiated, that sounds like a paradox. But
             | really, it's a need to be able to complain about something.
             | The more the person has to complain about, the better.
             | Something that was actually good would not allow the
             | opportunity for them to provide their (superior) input on
             | how it was done wrong.
             | 
             | The key give away is the fact that she keeps going back to
             | Disney. If I had experienced half of the slights and snafus
             | she claims [1] to have experienced, I'd never go back to
             | the place.
             | 
             | At the end of the day, I figured I had much better things
             | to do with my time than watch someone complain about theme
             | parks, even assuming the complaints were realistic. I like
             | taking my kids to theme parks on occasion, but I have no
             | desire to become so frequent of a customer that I ever need
             | some kind of "inside scoop".
             | 
             | [1] eeeeh, I don't necessarily disbelieve her. A lot of
             | what she says rings true for my own opinion of Disney. But
             | at the same time, her attitude is nearly identical to that
             | of folks I grew up with, speech patterns that I've come to
             | recognize as over aggrandized consumerist "suffering." It
             | feels like she's leaving a whole lot of context out,
             | context that might reveal the her trials and tribulations
             | were of her own making.
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | The Star Wars video was a bit strange to me. On one hand,
               | it did absolutely suck, but there also were many times in
               | the video where she obviously specifically chose
               | expectations on purpose knowing that the park would not
               | live up to them, and then acted like she was just totally
               | surprised that it happened. I found it even more
               | egregious for her Evermore park video, where she seemed
               | genuinely shocked to not have an absolutely perfect
               | roleplaying experience there.
               | 
               | It's all a bit strange because all of her unrealistic
               | expectations are perfectly woven into the realistic ones
               | in a way that makes it very difficult to distinguish what
               | is reasonable about her expectations. Somehow she manages
               | to make it so that something that will genuinely suck for
               | everyone, like standing in line for hours or her app
               | being totally broken, gets mixed up with much more
               | obviously subjective things like the actors not really
               | matching her energy.
        
               | yifanl wrote:
               | I don't recall anywhere in her video where she didn't
               | bring up expectations without also bringing up an example
               | of when the Disney company had already implemented the
               | idea.
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | That doesn't really relate to what I say. Just because a
               | company did something once before or even promised
               | something doesn't make it realistic to expect it
        
               | jorams wrote:
               | It's been a few months since I saw the video, but from
               | what I remember all of her expectations should have been
               | realistic when taking into account the price of the
               | experience. This was an _extremely_ expensive experience,
               | and she was comparing it to things done way better at way
               | lower price points.
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | It's not realistic to expect the experience to be that
               | good even if the price is insane, though, because it was
               | obvious Disney wouldn't be able to deliver on that
        
               | krisoft wrote:
               | > because it was obvious Disney wouldn't be able to
               | deliver on that
               | 
               | Then they should not claim it in their marketing
               | materials that they will deliver it. What happened with
               | the good old "underpromise and over deliver"? Besides she
               | is not demanding her money back. She is making a review
               | where she is informing the public that an experience did
               | not live up to the marketing of it and is not worth the
               | price.
               | 
               | In fact i believe that is the unstated conclusion of her
               | video. Disney should have crunched the numbers and should
               | have realised that the experience they are advertising
               | cannot be delivered.
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | Chronic complainers get validation from expressing
               | negativity because it garners more attention.
        
             | rafabulsing wrote:
             | This video (which might be my favourite from her) on a
             | particular church annual theater productions is positive.
             | Still poking fun at it and taking it apart, as she's wont
             | to do. But I do believe she genuinely enjoys how kish and
             | over the top it is.
             | 
             | https://youtu.be/ZK4gM7RC1M0?si=Je-NhLKBATelhcYq
        
               | halostatue wrote:
               | I think you meant `kitsch` (it's a hard word to spell,
               | and I misspelled it once while posting this).
        
             | mnky9800n wrote:
             | i find that in videos of her being critical of something
             | she describes something she likes and then explains why she
             | likes it and then describes why the thing she is
             | criticizing isnt that.
        
               | actuallyalys wrote:
               | She also does mention things she did like about the thing
               | she's criticizing. For example, she liked the themed food
               | at the Star Wars hotel, as I recall.
        
             | DamnInteresting wrote:
             | I've subscribed to her channel for a long time, and my
             | impression has been that she loves these kinds of things
             | (otherwise why keep exploring the space?), but she finds it
             | interesting and potentially productive to talk about the
             | flaws, as a way to strive for better. It's like she's
             | acting as an editor to an author--sure, editors are
             | technically criticizing, but they do so intending to
             | improve the original.
        
             | burningChrome wrote:
             | I had the same reaction. I got hooked on Bright Sun FIlms
             | and several of their other channels like Bright Sun Travels
             | which do similar reviews, but always seem to give positive
             | and negative feedback and are honest about resorts being a
             | good deal or not. The majority of Bright Sun Films cover
             | abandoned places which go into great detail about a
             | resort's history and why a resort or property failed and
             | what led to its downfall.
             | 
             | All of their stuff is incredibly well researched and have
             | always seemed to me to be pretty objective; which is why I
             | have avoided Nicholson's reviews - you already know its not
             | going to be very objective.
        
       | wileydragonfly wrote:
       | Today you learned his name is "Charles Entertainment Cheese."
        
         | bozhark wrote:
         | "Sharl" needs to focus on his driving
        
           | technothrasher wrote:
           | If you're talking about Sharl l'eclair, he drove just fine
           | yesterday.
        
         | Uehreka wrote:
         | I'd heard this fact before, it was honestly kind of obnoxious
         | how the writer kept wanting to remind us how much they also
         | know this fact.
        
         | rglover wrote:
         | "My government name is Charles Entertainment Cheese, but people
         | on the street call me Chuck E. Cheese."
        
         | reginald78 wrote:
         | Wild me I just realized I have always been reading the name as
         | Chunk E. Cheese.
        
         | astura wrote:
         | No I didn't, it's already a widely known fact and it was even
         | mentioned on Jeopardy! A week or two ago.
         | 
         | Edit: here's the Jeopardy! clip, everyone got the question
         | right: https://youtube.com/watch?v=IJ6Ra54q3wA
        
       | knowsuchagency wrote:
       | They're now working on Optimus
        
       | api wrote:
       | The unfortunately defunct podcast The Nonsense Bazaar has a
       | hilarious and wonderful episode on the Chuck E Cheese saga:
       | 
       | https://thenonsensebazaar.com/listen/131-chuck-e-cheese/
        
       | doublerabbit wrote:
       | Surprised that no one mentioned that Chucky E Cheese also ran
       | from floppy disks.
       | 
       | https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/01/chuck...
        
       | xrd wrote:
       | I went with my kids to a Chuck E Cheese party a few years back.
       | 
       | It was the perfect encapsulation of modern American capitalism.
       | 
       | As my kids milled about, suddenly the employees started chanting
       | "Chuck E! Chuck E!" And, encouraging the kids to pump their arms
       | in the air.
       | 
       | My kids did this as I stood there and the horror crept over me.
       | 
       | Then, Chuck E came out. My kids were putty in his hands at that
       | point. He could have said "Now, turn to your dad and murder him.
       | Don't think, just do it." And, they would have done that.
       | 
       | Then, they ate extraordinarily crappy pizza. I did too. It was a
       | coping mechanism for me, I'm not sure why my kids ate it.
       | 
       | After that, they went into the arcade and were encouraged to
       | "earn" tickets. Those tickets could be converted into cheap
       | plastic toys that cost $0.10 to make in China. Earning 100
       | tickets would cost several dollars on a debit card. And, the
       | conversion rate was 10000 tickets for that cheap plastic shit. It
       | wasn't a good exchange rate. But, man, my kids were sucked in.
       | 
       | It was a gorgeous example of American capitalism. I have to tip
       | my hat to Chuck E. He's a maestro.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | It's fun. They sell fun, and kids aren't going to view this
         | though a philosophically deconstructive lens.
         | 
         | Memories like these will last kids their lifetime. I certainly
         | remember going when I was their age.
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | Lighten up dude, sheesh.
        
           | drivers99 wrote:
           | One could say the same back. It's just Gen X dark humor,
           | being sarcastic about whatever is popular. (I'm Gen X too
           | btw.)
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Imagine buying the per play games and not just getting the
         | minutes.
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | I feel like they can easily make the stuff you get from these
         | things at least marginally worth it and still make a ton of
         | money. It'd at least make the adults feel a bit better, but
         | somehow it always seems to be the first thing they try to save
         | on.
         | 
         | Then again, I find that I'm often the only one that has issues
         | exchanging $20 for fifteen minutes of fun and a $0.1 toy.
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | You can never make enough money. Most local governments don't
           | care that kiddy games are unregulated and you have no shot at
           | winning the grand prize. Hence, "It was the perfect
           | encapsulation of modern American capitalism."
        
         | UniverseHacker wrote:
         | Were you standoffish and angry enough that you managed to
         | prevent the kids from having a fun party? It sounds like good
         | harmless fun- dancing, games, pizza, and toys/prizes. The only
         | negative to me is that the loudness and dancing can be
         | overwhelming for some kids.
        
       | bbarnett wrote:
       | A call out to Bruce the Moose.
        
       | neom wrote:
       | Bankrupt - Chuck E Cheese's is a great 30ish min doc I highly
       | recommend, actually everything put out Bright Sun youtube is
       | super good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbI3zOm2BkE
        
       | analog31 wrote:
       | I wonder how many punk bands will bid on the robots.
        
         | wpietri wrote:
         | You might appreciate this repurposing of some Chuck E Cheese
         | robots: https://chicagoreader.com/blogs/how-logan-arcade-got-
         | its-mis...
        
       | jihadjihad wrote:
       | Good riddance. I was always so creeped out by the band as a kid.
       | Just hustle it up so I can get back to Skee-Ball and Smokin'
       | Token, sheesh!
        
       | staplung wrote:
       | Following Dolli Dimples nightmare decent into booze and drugs and
       | Jasper T. Jowls repeated arrests for excessive drooling, the
       | wheels really came off. Pasqually ended up in an psych ward after
       | an acute psychotic break, Crusty the Cat contracted rabies under
       | mysterious circumstances, and Chuck himself has never been seen
       | after his crypto pump and dump scheme.
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | Call Peter Jackson! "Meet the Feebles" needs a sequel.
        
         | ethbr1 wrote:
         | Next up on VH1, 'Munch's Make Believe Band: Where Are They
         | Now?'
        
       | rectang wrote:
       | From a 1977 video embedded in the article:
       | 
       | > _Dolli Dimples, the singing hippopotamus, is powered by a
       | computer system capable of handling 450 instructions per second._
        
       | enos_feedler wrote:
       | "At the time, Atari was selling its arcade games for US $1,500 to
       | $2,000 each, but the real money was in the $50,000 in coins that
       | a game would take in over its lifetime"
       | 
       | Has business changed since then? Surely Nvidia isn't selling GPUs
       | with such a low fixed up front price only for the hyperscalers to
       | turn around and rent them out for all the profits. Am i missing
       | something?
        
         | dgfitz wrote:
         | Selling shovels?
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | If you mean the arcade business, absolutely, operators have
         | gone through several boom and bust cycles and the business is
         | basically unrecognizable from what it was in the 80s and 90s.
         | To bring this back to your analogy, imagine if Nvidia decided
         | they were going to charge a $10/hr license fee on the driver
         | software for datacenter-licensed GPUs. This business model is
         | called revenue share licensing[0] and all the Japanese rhythm
         | and fighting games (i.e. the ones that are _actually games_ )
         | moved to revshare over the last decade and change.
         | 
         | Naturally, American operators[1] hate this, both because it
         | makes the network a single point of failure and because they
         | can't hold onto old versions of games during lean times. When
         | DDR came back to US arcades, Dave & Busters (back when Round1
         | was a lot smaller than it is today) specifically demanded a
         | perpetually licensed version of the game, which made upgrade
         | kits a pain in the ass. A lot of Japanese arcade games don't
         | actually get official US releases because of this, or they're
         | just Round1 exclusives[2], despite the fact that there's a
         | fairly big and dedicated American player base for rhythm
         | games[3].
         | 
         | The irony is, revshare licensing would fix one of the _other_
         | biggest fears American operators have about running rhythm
         | games: ASCAP. When Guitar Hero got an arcade port, the
         | collection societies started going after arcade operators that
         | had bought the machines. I suppose the entire perpetual
         | licensing business model that arcade machines used to use is
         | not actually legally coherent[4], at least for games with
         | licensed music in them. But having actual per-credit licensing
         | attached to the machines would be an easy way to tell
         | collection societies to fuck off, because they already got paid
         | when you paid your revshare to the arcade manufacturer, and
         | they can 't sue you if you paid for your license.
         | 
         | There's two other big metas in American arcades:
         | 
         | - Redemption arcades, or the "child-friendly casino". Chuck E.
         | Cheese was a pioneer in this particular kind of arcade brain
         | rot and most American operators just run these kinds of games
         | exclusively. Actually, Japan does this way worse than America
         | does; pretty much every arcade in Japan will have an insanely
         | large section of crane games, gamble-able horse racing
         | simulators, or _literal slot machines_. It 's just that Japan
         | also isn't horribly underserved like the US market is.
         | 
         | - Retro arcades, which run older perpetually licensed games,
         | typically on a "pay for entry" basis. Problem is keeping all
         | these old games in order; they don't make new parts for old
         | games. You basically have to be an electronics restoration
         | expert to run a retro arcade well; I suppose this is why 8-Bit
         | Guy got into the business with Time Rift Arcade.
         | 
         | [0] The arcade cabs are always-online; they will fail to start
         | if they cannot connect to their central server. Alongside
         | buying the cab, you also have to buy a VPN box for the
         | manufacturer's online service and pay a monthly fee, per cab,
         | for access to that service. The online service then tracks each
         | credit played on the machine and charges you some fraction of a
         | dollar per credit.
         | 
         | [1] There's two exceptions: Hawaiian arcade operators (which
         | have a steady stream of Japanese tourists) and Round1 (which is
         | a Japanese arcade chain with US operations)
         | 
         | [2] Round1 has an exclusive rhythm game called Music Diver
         | which they operate in both their US and Japanese locations. In
         | the US, Music Diver's right up front and gets a lot of casuals
         | playing. In Japan, it's hidden in the back and there's no one
         | playing.
         | 
         | [3] EU/UK is somehow even worse, even though they have the
         | urban infrastructure for arcades and we _don 't_. Best they
         | have is DDR A20 PLUS with eAmuse stripped out - reheated
         | leftovers from the Dave & Busters / Round1 deal that fell
         | through two years ago.
         | 
         | [4] It's one thing for ActiVision to license a bunch of rock
         | music and stick it in an arcade machine, but buying the cab
         | doesn't exactly give you a license to publicly perform the game
         | and the music attached to it. Sort of like how game streaming
         | is technically illegal, even though everyone does it, and the
         | game industry wants you to do it.
        
           | Shank wrote:
           | > But having actual per-credit licensing attached to the
           | machines would be an easy way to tell collection societies to
           | fuck off, because they already got paid when you paid your
           | revshare to the arcade manufacturer, and they can't sue you
           | if you paid for your license.
           | 
           | This is precisely why revenue share exists as a model. There
           | are a lot of US operators who are still cold to the idea, but
           | it isn't out of the question that operators would pay for
           | updated, modern games. Rhythm games especially are difficult
           | due to cross-border licensing issues.
           | 
           | The times are changing though: There has been an ongoing
           | maimai DX location test in the US (in California, Round1 PHM
           | and in Texas, at Dave 'n Busters), and there was recently the
           | successful completion of the location test for Taiko no
           | Tatsujin, with a full scale launch starting in November.
           | There are pains, but these games are slowly coming over.
           | 
           | I assume you already know this stuff, but I think the average
           | person would read your take as fairly cynical. The fact that
           | SEGA Fave and Bandai Namco are even remotely considering
           | operating online, networked rhythm games in the US is
           | something to be thankful for. maimai's location test was
           | online, with a large catalog of songs, on the international
           | ALL.net service. Compared to the maimai PiNK loctest, which
           | was offline with paltry songs, it's way, way more likely to
           | be a long-term initiative.
        
             | kmeisthax wrote:
             | I don't just know about the maimai DX location test, I
             | actually flew out to the Puente Hills Mall[0] just to play
             | it.
             | 
             | One other thing I left out (because I thought it was too
             | inside-baseball) is that the way Japanese companies
             | structure their overseas operations also harms the US
             | rhythm game market. For example, the only reason why we got
             | a maimai DX location test was that SEGA had completely
             | upended their US arcade division. It used to be licensed
             | out to a completely different company with _zero_ interest
             | in rhythm games. Presumably with the same assumption that
             | they wouldn 't sell well or that arcade operators wouldn't
             | sign a revshare agreement. The best we could get was a
             | bunch of offline'd Chunithm Paradise Lost machine with all
             | the licenses stripped out[1].
             | 
             | Likewise, US players are also very cynical because of how
             | poorly served we are for our given market size. When
             | Taiko's US launch was announced a lot of people were
             | worried that the cab quality would be shit because they
             | were being assembled in the US (presumably for shipping or
             | tariff reasons). The rhythm game community has a long
             | memory; we remember what Raw Thrills did to DDR in the name
             | of cost-cutting. The Taiko cabs that R1 USA got so far seem
             | to be good, fortunately, but it's not irrational to worry
             | about these sorts of things.
             | 
             | I can absolutely see some independent operators outside of
             | Round1 picking up Taiko (or maimai if SEGA FAVE decides to
             | grant our wishes). But I would still be rather shocked if,
             | say, Dave & Busters[3] wound up running either game, given
             | that they basically pulled out of rhythm games.
             | 
             | [0] Which is comically dead. Outside of the Round1 and the
             | AMC basically half the shops are closed and the other half
             | are going out of business. If PHM wasn't Round1's hero
             | store the mall probably would have shut down by now.
             | 
             | [1] Hope you like Jingle Bells
             | 
             | [2] After Raw Thrills fucked DDR so hard it left the
             | states, the reintroduction of DDR to the US (Hawaii
             | exclusive) involved a special deal with Konami, Round1, and
             | Dave & Busters. Because D&B was involved, they insisted on
             | perpetual licensing, even though Konami had moved to
             | revshare in every other region. Which meant having to buy
             | upgrade kits.
             | 
             | [3] Or, hell, Chuck E. Cheese; even though Taiko would slot
             | in _perfectly_ with their target demo.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > or _literal slot machines_
           | 
           | While I agree with the description of "kid-friendly casino",
           | the big thing distinguishing "literal slot machines" to me is
           | that they pay out in tokens. Any machine at Chuck E. Cheese
           | would pay out in tickets.* That means you go in with X
           | tokens, come out with Y tickets, and can't feed the tickets
           | back into the machine. Instead, you get a plastic ring with a
           | spider on it.
           | 
           | But you do get something; with a slot machine, you're
           | guaranteed to end up with nothing.
           | 
           | * Actually, I think there was some kind of shelves-and-
           | pushers machine where the goal was to somehow trigger the
           | mechanism to shove a bunch of tokens off a shelf. This was
           | not popular.
        
             | enos_feedler wrote:
             | In port huron michigan at the birchwood mall that shelf was
             | full of quarters!!
             | 
             | There was an article in the JR cookbook / anarchist
             | cookbook about how to win these games I i remember
             | correctly. Could never pull it off as a 10 yo that neened
             | my parents to drive me there
        
           | vikingerik wrote:
           | And the retro arcades are really bars for their business
           | model. The profit is all in the $9 beers and $16 nachos, not
           | the admission charge or coin drops. The games are just the
           | crowd draw like live music or trivia or whatever.
           | 
           | Redemption games get families loading up $50 per kid at the
           | card machine (and then $50 more after the kids blow it in
           | twenty minutes); retrocades aren't pulling that from anybody.
        
             | enos_feedler wrote:
             | Im going to bring this back to my cloud computing analogy.
             | I'm trying to figure out the future of the business model
             | wrt GPUs. Its possible that GPUs and machine learning APIs
             | could act as the "crowd draw" meanwhile they make all the
             | profit on overpriced commodity x86 vcpu and storage buckets
             | (the beer and nachos)
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | Don't forget the bar + arcade. There's usually overlap with
           | other types of arcades, but it's more like the arcade is a
           | draw to sell beer instead of pizza.
           | 
           | The "pay for entry" model is also a way to get around
           | offering pirated games or other games that normally would be
           | not legal to accept quarters for.
        
       | mrandish wrote:
       | I guess it's nostalgic for some but even as a kid back when the
       | chain first rolled out I recognized right away that the
       | animatronics were low rent versions of earlier Disney
       | animatronics that were much better (albeit, significantly more
       | complex and thus more expensive).
       | 
       | I guess if you're a toddler it's still a big, colorful, moving
       | stuffed animal that talks, which might seem fascinating. But for
       | an older kid it wasn't entertaining or engaging while the Disney
       | animatronics still were.
       | 
       | Reflecting now on why one worked on me and the other didn't, I
       | think the lack of variable speed motion had a lot to do with it
       | because ease-in/out can add so much life and expression.
        
       | ginkgotree wrote:
       | My question is: Where can I buy the animatronic band members
       | after they are decommissioned?
        
       | andirk wrote:
       | Since the name is/was Chuck E. Cheese's (possessive), should this
       | article title be: "Chuck E. Cheese's's animatronics band bows
       | out"?
        
       | hoseja wrote:
       | Instead of leaning into the FNAF craze?
        
         | latentsea wrote:
         | FNAF feels like something you want to view from far away
         | through a screen and not actually live it. Having played FNAF I
         | think the real thing would be less appealing than more.
        
       | frognumber wrote:
       | Personally, I think this is a dead-end business decision. I've
       | seen this gamebook play out over and over. It rarely ends well.
       | 
       | The problem is that in 2024, kids can play video games and watch
       | stupid videos in the comfort of their own home. Perhaps screens
       | beat animatronics, ball pits, and whatnot, but there's no
       | competitive advantage over superior alternatives in the new
       | space.
       | 
       | Examples:
       | 
       | - Book stores. Cut costs to compete with online sellers. Move
       | more and more digitally. Have no upside over pure online stores.
       | Keel over.
       | 
       | - Radio Shack. Stop selling electronics components, and start
       | targeting to the bigger market of cell phones. Have no
       | competitive advantage over Best Buy or cell phones stores. Keel
       | over.
       | 
       | In those situations, it's better to either:
       | 
       | * Shift business models (e.g. Radio Shack could become a very
       | competitive makerspace, host kid afterschool programs, maker
       | camps, and refocused on Raspberry PI, 3d printers, Micro:bits and
       | similar).
       | 
       | * Shrink the business to follow a declining market without taking
       | on debt (Radio Shack couldn't support the number of stores it
       | had, but it could very much have supported 1/5 of the stores)
       | 
       | Both of those approaches usually require starting to adapt before
       | the sky starts falling.
        
         | BoxFour wrote:
         | > The problem is that in 2024, kids can play video games and
         | watch stupid videos in the comfort of their own home
         | 
         | I always thought of Chuck E. Cheese as being aimed at hosting
         | larger children's gatherings, freeing parents from concerns
         | about space or catering. The video games would just be an
         | extension of things they already want to do, but the draw is no
         | cleanup/planning.
         | 
         | Considering how curated children's activities have become (no
         | more "free range" children), and how expensive housing is (more
         | renters, less likely to host a big bash), it could actually
         | address a growing need.
         | 
         | Whether it's more attractive than booking a dedicated kids
         | venue and just ordering pizza is open to debate.
        
         | jazz9k wrote:
         | I take my kids there a few times a year. They are both under 10
         | and love it.
         | 
         | The price also isn't too bad: $20 for unlimited plays on any
         | game for an hour.
        
         | alberth wrote:
         | > The problem is that in 2024, kids can play video games and
         | watch stupid videos in the comfort of their own home
         | 
         | With that thinking, why do restaurants exist when you could
         | just eat from the comfort of your own home (or going to a
         | sports game in-person, etc).
         | 
         | What's being sold is the experience and/or convenience.
         | 
         | In the case of Chuck E Cheese, it's a bit of both. Parents get
         | to buy an experience for their kids, and if it's for a birthday
         | party - they are buying the convenience of not having to
         | host/cook/cleanup a party.
        
           | donatj wrote:
           | Cooking food on par with a restaurant can take literal hours.
           | 
           | Turning on a TV/Home console takes seconds. The convenience
           | factor is not there.
        
             | bunderbunder wrote:
             | I think that the more important factor is that home console
             | games are genuinely a better play experience than what's in
             | arcades nowadays. The graphics are better, the game quality
             | is better, etc.
             | 
             | Minecraft Dungeons vs. Minecraft Dungeons Arcade is an
             | interesting case study. Introducing arcade mechanics
             | designed to prompt kids to put more money into the machine
             | legitimately makes the game less fun. Every few minutes
             | you're interrupted and taken out of the game and back into
             | meatspace so that you can put another couple dollars in the
             | slot. And some of the more interesting elements of the game
             | had to be removed because there's no saving your progress
             | in the arcade. _And_ you and your friends are crammed in
             | around the cabinet, either constantly bumping each other
             | with your elbows or playing in a mildly uncomfortable
             | position to try and keep your elbows in. At home you can
             | spread out on the couch or floor.
             | 
             | Back in the 80s and early 90s I put up with a poorer
             | gameplay experience because arcade machines still had
             | noticeably better graphics. (Dragon's Lair might be the
             | poster child for this phenomenon.) But that just isn't the
             | case anymore.
        
               | entropicdrifter wrote:
               | >Back in the 80s and early 90s I put up with a poorer
               | gameplay experience because arcade machines still had
               | noticeably better graphics. (Dragon's Lair might be the
               | poster child for this phenomenon.) But that just isn't
               | the case anymore.
               | 
               | Yeah, I mean even with games that had perfectly
               | equivalent gameplay with debatably better controls like
               | Street Fighter 2 arcade vs home, you still got 90% of the
               | experience with the home version. Nowadays the best
               | reasons to play at arcades are prohibitively expensive
               | hardware-specific games like DDR, other more advanced
               | Japanese rhythm games like BeatMania, racing games, and
               | mecha piloting simulators.
               | 
               | The only other thing that _could_ work well in an arcade
               | model nowadays would be a high end VR setup, but ideally
               | you 'd have your own sealed booth for that with an
               | omnidirectional treadmill. They were starting to take off
               | before COVID shut most of them down for good. Here's
               | hoping VRcades do eventually become more of a thing
               | again.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | Well when you host a kids party at your home you now have
             | to bring food and clean up. And chuck e cheese can handle a
             | lot more screaming children than your home ever could.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Bookstores do have upside over pure online stores though, they
         | can lay out their shop with interesting books and the like,
         | personalised recommendations from staff, organise events,
         | rebrand as a coffee shop, etc etc etc. Sure, pure book shops
         | that sell books are at a disadvantage, but in my country
         | there's still plenty of local book shops that at least for now
         | keep their head above water.
         | 
         | Radio Shack could've had a field day when the Raspberry Pi and
         | co came around and made electronics and programming a hobby for
         | the masses, especially if they rebranded into a hacker space of
         | sorts and organised events and classes and the like. Whether
         | that would've saved them is another matter though, as the
         | Raspberry revolution also came with very cheap and affordable
         | electronics, which only works if sold en masse.
        
           | frognumber wrote:
           | That's exactly my point. Many of those bookstores survived.
           | 
           | The ones that died were the ones who tried to lower prices to
           | compete with online, had commercial books selling shelf space
           | (rather than curated selections), and minimum-wage employees
           | who didn't know what they were selling.
           | 
           | I don't mind paying for good books, and what I'll pay for is
           | having a person who has read a lot of books and can recommend
           | what I'll enjoy.
        
         | jzig wrote:
         | I've noticed the similar pattern and always wondered how Micro
         | Center seems to manage to do OK.
        
           | voidfunc wrote:
           | They're not over expanded and are generally fun to visit.
           | They basically have the right number of stores to interest
           | ratio in an area and they're competitive on pricing.
        
         | snakeyjake wrote:
         | >Radio Shack. Stop selling electronics components, and start
         | targeting to the bigger market of cell phones. Have no
         | competitive advantage over Best Buy or cell phones stores. Keel
         | over.
         | 
         | I was a radio shack employee as a teen in the 90s, right before
         | the pivot to cellphones started. I joined the Army and got the
         | hell out of there right before the 1998 catalog came out, the
         | one with the Sprint PCS partnership on the cover. I helped
         | install and stock the Sprint furniture and signage.
         | 
         | At my store and every single store I was aware of, if they had
         | not pivoted to cellphones they would have gone out of business
         | in 2000.
         | 
         | By 1998 people no longer purchased computers at electronics
         | stores. They either bought them from Gateway, out of PC
         | Magazine or Computer Shopper, or from Walmart.
         | 
         | By 1998 people no longer bought CB radios from electronics
         | stores. They no longer saw Optimus or Realistic scanners/AV
         | receivers as desirable products. Throughout the 80s and early
         | 90s the Japanese brands snuffed out the cheap Radio Shack
         | brands.
         | 
         | By 1998 people hadn't purchased electronic components in
         | volumes high enough to turn a profit (needed to pay wages,
         | rent, and buy inventory) in 10-20 years.
         | 
         | Even in the late 90s, components were a vestigial organ, a
         | money pit, a revenue black hole.
         | 
         | "But I used to buy capacito.." You were the exception.
         | 
         | You were the atypical customer.
         | 
         | You literally lost Radio Shack money and hastened the
         | transformation every time you walked past the CD players and
         | plasma spheres towards the back of the store where the
         | components lived.
        
           | frognumber wrote:
           | > At my store and every single store I was aware of, if they
           | had not pivoted to cellphones they would have gone out of
           | business in 2000.
           | 
           | Let's shorten this: "if they had not pivoted, they would have
           | gone out of business in 2000." A pivot was needed, and a long
           | time earlier. They key question is which pivot.
           | 
           | Identifying a big market, with a lot of competition and no
           | competitive advantage, was better than nothing, but worse
           | than identifying a market with some competitive advantage.
           | 
           | > You literally lost Radio Shack money and hastened the
           | transformation every time you walked past the CD players and
           | plasma spheres towards the back of the store where the
           | components lived.
           | 
           | True.
           | 
           | To make money, they would have needed to monetize me for a
           | lot more than the price of a component. Have a quick look to
           | see what Russian School of Math charges for afterschool math
           | classes, what summer STEM camps cost, or tuition at a
           | university. More critically, look at the derivative -- which
           | prices are going up and which are going down.
           | 
           | If you earn 50 cents selling me a resistor, I'm losing them
           | money.
           | 
           | If you earn $1000 teaching my kid something about
           | electronics. All of a sudden you need far fewer of me, and
           | you broaden the appeal to anyone educated with money and a
           | child.
           | 
           | They had everything in place to do that, right down to
           | wonderful educators like Forrest Mims.
           | 
           | And if they had done that well, there would have been many
           | more of me around now too.
        
             | snakeyjake wrote:
             | >Have a quick look to see what Russian School of Math
             | charges for afterschool math classes, what summer STEM
             | camps cost, or tuition at a university.
             | 
             | None of those are geographically distributed physical
             | locations that need to be staffed and operated constantly.
             | They're monolithic institutions, pop-up restaurants of
             | learning, or virtual.
             | 
             | I would have used Kumon as an example except the comparison
             | breaks down when you realize parents pay Kumon a lot of
             | money to increase their children's test scores, and very
             | few schools test for hobby electronics.
             | 
             | Pivoting to your plan would have achieved the same result:
             | the death of Radio Shack.
             | 
             | Preserving a brand for the sake of preserving a brand
             | doesn't make sense.
             | 
             | Customers don't exist for after-school hobby electronics
             | classes for teens at over 8,000 locations across the US. So
             | you pivot anyways (to a sector you have no practical or
             | institutional knowledge in, which doesn't exist already),
             | close down 7,000 stores (to roughly match the number of
             | Kumon locations), get rid of all of your inventory because
             | you don't have the scale at 1,000 small locations to make
             | competing with big-box or online make any sense and then--
             | bam!
             | 
             | Radio Shack's dead anyways.
        
               | naasking wrote:
               | > Customers don't exist for after-school hobby
               | electronics classes for teens at over 8,000 locations
               | across the US.
               | 
               | I'm not sure that's obvious, at least if you don't
               | completely restrict yourself only to specific kinds of
               | electronics, eg. have computer assembly, troubleshooting,
               | phone and other device repair classes/workshops, etc. The
               | most successful pivots create a market where there
               | previously was none.
        
               | frognumber wrote:
               | > None of those are geographically distributed physical
               | locations that need to be staffed and operated
               | constantly. They're monolithic institutions, pop-up
               | restaurants of learning, or virtual.
               | 
               | I think you're misunderstanding how these operate. Almost
               | all of these are staffed and operated for at least the
               | same number of hours as a typical Radio Shack location.
               | 
               | > to a sector you have no practical or institutional
               | knowledge in, which doesn't exist already
               | 
               | No, Radio Shack had more institutional knowledge here
               | than just about anyone else. They made electronics kits,
               | wonderful books, etc. A better example is AoPS opening up
               | physical tutoring center (which they did, and which has
               | been very successful).
               | 
               | > close down 7,000 stores (to roughly match the number of
               | Kumon locations), get rid of all of your inventory
               | 
               | If you do this, you're managing the pivot like an idiot.
               | Here is how you pivot:
               | 
               | 1) Start a summer camp at one location. Iterate on the
               | program until it's efficient and turnkey.
               | 
               | 2) Start a small number of afterschool programs in a
               | similar fashion
               | 
               | 3) See what it takes to be successful. Perhaps grant some
               | kind of certificate for those, and ideally, frame it so
               | it can go on a college application, or if you're really
               | ambitious, so amount of college credit. I can name a
               | dozen other places this could go, but critically, it
               | takes a bit of financial elbowroom to have time to
               | explore and pivot like this.
               | 
               | Once this is going, expand reach to more and more stores.
               | And do this in 1990, so you have time and elbowroom,
               | rather than in 2000.
               | 
               | For big institutions, pivots almost never work wholesale.
               | 
               | > close down 7,000 stores
               | 
               | Scaling down was probably necessary at some point, but
               | bankruptcy was not.
               | 
               | Scaling down can be followed by scaling back up.
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | I'm firmly in the "creepy as hell" camp. I only was compelled to
       | attend such a horror-show once or twice, and left early each
       | time.
        
       | shemnon42 wrote:
       | It's not about the stag show anymore, it's about the midway games
       | that spew out tickets. A literal children's casino.
        
       | low_tech_love wrote:
       | As a programmer who refuses to use AI support in development, I
       | feel like an animatronics character being phased out. :(
       | 
       | The world used to love me...
        
         | triyambakam wrote:
         | Why do you refuse?
        
       | keeganpoppen wrote:
       | I thoroughly enjoyed this article. I had _no_ idea that Nolan
       | Bushnell  / Atari was behind the original Chuck E. Cheese, but in
       | retrospect it makes so much sense. What an amazing playfulness
       | and somewhat crazy thing for them to do-- i don't think having
       | the kind of success Atari had was an accident when you read about
       | visionary, long-term stuff like that (even if the venture itself
       | didn't technically work out _that_ well for Atari  / Bushnell
       | _this_ time...).
        
       | bunderbunder wrote:
       | At least in my area, Chuck E Cheese is experiencing stiff
       | competition from places like ClimbZone, a kid-oriented climbing
       | gym and ropes course, and Altitude, a trampoline park for kids.
       | They all have the arcade, albeit in somewhat scaled back form.
       | Their food offerings are vestigial.
       | 
       | I've been to kids' birthday parties at all of these. Chuck E
       | Cheese is the only one that doesn't have our kids asking to go
       | back again on the ride home. They have a good time while they're
       | there, but they don't perceive much "replay value".
       | 
       | In light of that, this seems like a good move on Chuck E Cheese's
       | part. They arguably can't completely get rid of the show
       | component for brand identity reasons, but converting it to
       | screens probably reduces their cost structure enormously. And it
       | could free up some floor space, which would let them shift the
       | focus toward physical play. That is something that has a lot more
       | novelty value for kids nowadays than it did when I was growing
       | up. I think probably because the availability situation has flip-
       | flopped: they live in an ocean of high quality passive
       | entertainment, but opportunities to jump and run with a crowd of
       | other kids are becoming increasingly hard to come by.
       | 
       | I still suspect it's too little too late though? Chuck E Cheese
       | locations are physically too small to accommodate a really good
       | indoor play space. They're typically in strip mall locations that
       | don't offer the kind of floor and overhead space needed to
       | install indoor play equipment that's up to modern standards for
       | novelty.
        
         | afavour wrote:
         | I can second this. Here in Brooklyn there was some big woop
         | made about the local Chuck E Cheese getting a trampoline floor,
         | seemingly a direct reaction to the arrival of these giant
         | trampoline parks. We went to take a look and it was pretty sad,
         | a tiny little area that had a time limit for each kid to manage
         | demand.
         | 
         | But like you say, they're stuck. There's a great (I mean,
         | relatively speaking) trampoline park in the city but it's out
         | in an industrial area where they could easily find a space the
         | size of a football field. The Chuck E Cheese is in a shopping
         | mall and clearly has no extra space to use.
        
           | conductr wrote:
           | The couple we frequent have had digital screen "bands" at
           | least the last 5 years and the kids mostly just ignore it.
           | They usually have someone wear a mascot uniform and come
           | dance during the main event, but most kids could care less.
           | They're over in the arcade area. The addition of the
           | trampoline area just occurred recently and the whole time we
           | were their they had a teammate chasing kids off of it because
           | most of them didn't have the necessary grippy socks. Initial
           | observations on my end was that it's going to cost them more
           | to manage it than it will bring in in revenue.
           | 
           | We go there sometimes alone because my son is obsessed with a
           | particular arcade they have and it's like a special treat to
           | take him, outside of birthday parties the place seems dead.
           | Also, I never see anyone actually eat there. I think birthday
           | parties is their entire business at this point. It's even a
           | joke amongst our parent groups that if you are late to plan
           | something, just do Chuck E Cheese because it's easy and
           | pretty much always available. The kids enjoy it either way
        
         | DSMan195276 wrote:
         | The odd part to me is that back when I was a kid Chuck E Cheese
         | _did_ have a play area section, with at least a tube climbing
         | thing, ball pit, etc. When I took my daughter there a few years
         | ago though it was nothing but arcade games, and I think it was
         | the same one my parents used to take me too.
         | 
         | IMO this is an extra bad move for them because it means they're
         | directly competing with all the arcade places near me and those
         | are much better maintained (and/or have various other
         | attractions).
        
           | mikepurvis wrote:
           | Competing with dedicated arcades _and also competing with
           | home video games_. Like, the only arcade cabinets that are
           | remotely of interest to me as an adult are the ones with a
           | novel input mechanism-- DDR, light gun games, and driving
           | sims.
           | 
           | Everything else feels kind of pointless when I can play the
           | same thing at home with way better graphics and no predatory
           | progression nonsense.
           | 
           | A big climber and ballpit is 100x more novel to today's kids
           | than a knockoff kart game or sidescrolling beat-em-up.
        
           | antifa wrote:
           | My Chuck E Cheese didn't have that, which is probably why I
           | always preferred discovery zone (my NES at home was better
           | than most arcades anyways).
        
       | astura wrote:
       | Good, they terrified me as a child. Really uncanny valley
       | territory.
        
       | lenerdenator wrote:
       | I mean, yeah, the animatronics are weird in today's age, but
       | honestly, the whole premise is what does the chain's image in.
       | 
       | Is it really anything other than chaos and sleaze distilled? You
       | can have stoned 19-year-olds cavorting in the supply closet,
       | drunken parents slugging it out at a birthday party, a man
       | sneezing on a pizza he just baked, _and_ a crying child
       | defecating in the ball pit _simultaneously_. All against a
       | hypnotic background of flashing lights and arcade sounds.
       | 
       | This is a grotesquery, torn from the pages of Huxley. One can
       | only imagine the Romans had a similar palace of decadence for
       | children shortly before their collapse.
       | 
       | No sane society would allow this to exist, let alone as a
       | profitable enterprise. I know anglophone North America isn't
       | sane, but isn't this a little too far, even for us?
        
       | DiscourseFan wrote:
       | I remember when I went as a little kid the animatronics scared me
       | so much I shit myself and I haven't been back since
        
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