[HN Gopher] Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser
        
       Author : OuterVale
       Score  : 414 points
       Date   : 2024-12-08 02:54 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nyxt.atlas.engineer)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nyxt.atlas.engineer)
        
       | Curiositry wrote:
       | A few years ago I doggedly tried to switch to Nyxt for everyday
       | use. I _really_ liked the concept, but at the time, it was too
       | buggy, and constantly crashed on me. I 'm going give it another
       | shot.
        
         | nextos wrote:
         | Nyxt is very promising, and I hope it gains momentum. The
         | obvious advantage of Nyxt is programmability and keyboard-
         | driven workflows.
         | 
         | However, I use old hardware, and it's a bit slow and laggy.
         | Chromium behaves the same way, so I imagine this is due to
         | WebKit and Blink being significantly heavier than Gecko.
         | 
         | Firefox is really snappy on old hardware, at least when running
         | Linux, and uses a modest amount of memory.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | What's considered old nowadays? My current desktop had some
           | ~3Ghz AMD processor from ~2020, I don't even remember what it
           | is. Maybe 16 GiB of memory. Runs Firefox and Jetbrains good
           | enough that I've not had to consider upgrading. I use a
           | Debian based distro.
        
             | olejorgenb wrote:
             | Not GP, but I have an i5 from around 2015. 4 cores, no
             | hyper threading), 32GB ram. And it's still good enough for
             | most things. Adding ram and a decent SDD gave it many extra
             | years.
             | 
             | In the prosess of switching it out completely now though.
        
               | chickenbigmac wrote:
               | What kind of work do you do with those specs? I have a
               | machine from around the same period with similar upgrades
               | and I feel that it really is good enough, especially if
               | you don't play video games.
        
               | wafflemaker wrote:
               | I had a similar CPU (i5 4690k) and it would have been
               | good for a few more years, if not the 3080 I once bought
               | after a fight with my wife. Old CPU was just slowing it
               | too much.
        
               | olejorgenb wrote:
               | It's actually the machine I use when working from home
               | and it works fine.
               | 
               | PyCharm IDE on a moderately big project. We've recently
               | focused on moving towards _fully_ type hinted code base,
               | using pyright as the checker /LSP. Which means I use a
               | good-enough-but-not-great plugin which makes pycharm use
               | pyright instead of the buggy heuristic based built in
               | type "engine". And this is noticeable slower, which is
               | part of my motivation for upgrading.
               | 
               | Other part is to be able to play a few games. I could
               | probably just upgrade my GPU, but I'm not sure if it's
               | even possible (outdated PCI port on my MB I think)
               | without getting something second hand.
               | 
               | Third part is that I want to play more with the new NLP
               | technology which is rapidly reaching a point where it
               | should be possible to do a lot of cool stuff. And I want
               | as much as possible to run locally.
               | 
               | My current old CPU is i5-3570 CPU @ 3.40GHz
        
             | nextos wrote:
             | OP here, running an i5-4250U. A 10-11 year old low-power
             | CPU and a SATA SSD, definitely quite slow by current
             | standards.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Hmm for me on BSD it's the opposite. But every release
           | something breaks in Firefox' GPU acceleration so I've kinda
           | stopped trying to fix it. I assume chromium handles that
           | better. Though I don't use it much.
        
           | stragies wrote:
           | Is this because Nyxt is an Electron App? (Is it?) The github
           | commit log mentions it. Or is that just a "variant" of Nyxt?
        
             | k4rli wrote:
             | Fortunately GTK. Contributing manual only says that
             | Electron support is experimental.
        
               | stragies wrote:
               | Cool, thanks. So there is the flatpak version, the
               | Electron version, and the GTK version? Is there an easy
               | way to install the native GTK version on recent
               | Debian(+backports)? Or only "make && make install"?
        
           | srid wrote:
           | > The obvious advantage of Nyxt is programmability and
           | keyboard-driven workflows.
           | 
           | Example real-world workflows that highlight the advantage of
           | Nyxt over other browsers?
        
           | aruggirello wrote:
           | Firefox with ViolentMonkey and uBlock Origin is my go to
           | solution. I keep hundreds of tabs open, Chrome|ium is simply
           | a memory hog.
        
         | irthomasthomas wrote:
         | It's been my default browser for about a year. Most bugs have
         | been fixed. Only twitter still crashes it.
        
       | phplovesong wrote:
       | Is this standalone or an emacs plugin? I rather use vim motions,
       | so is this locked to emacs, or can i do vim style for things
       | instead?
        
         | markasoftware wrote:
         | standalone
        
         | brabel wrote:
         | The only connection between this and emacs is that both use a
         | Lisp language (Nyxt is written in Common Lisp)... and that Nyxt
         | is inspired by how emacs works. Anyway, why did you assume it
         | is an emacs plugin? It doesn't say that anywhere.
        
           | shikck200 wrote:
           | My first impression was the same. Mostly from the
           | screenshots, each one had multiple places with an "emacs"
           | text element. If this is not bound to emacs, what the hell is
           | the emacs thing doing there?
        
             | llm_trw wrote:
             | It's written in common lisp which is universally written in
             | Emacs.
        
               | vindarel wrote:
               | (which can be written in other editors:
               | https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-
               | support.ht... vim, VSCode with LSP support, Jetbrains,
               | Atom/Pulsar, Sublime, Jupyter notebook...) (just saying
               | to not scare people. Emacs is still the best for CL IMO)
        
               | llm_trw wrote:
               | Yes, I can also wear underwear as a hat.
        
               | sourcepluck wrote:
               | Please, netizen, educate yourself. Common Lisp is written
               | in many places outside of Emacs.
               | 
               | If you want to wear your underwear as a hat, that's your
               | own business. Don't blame Common Lisp, or the array of
               | editors which have nice support for it.
        
             | evertedsphere wrote:
             | i imagine it means emacs keybindings, as opposed to vi
             | keybinds, in which case that indicator would indicate the
             | mode
        
         | opan wrote:
         | Last I used it, default keybinds were very emacs-y, but there
         | was a vim mode (was a bit rough) you could use instead.
        
         | sourcepluck wrote:
         | It's a standalone program, and you can absolutely use vim
         | keybindings! Not locked to emacs in any way.
         | 
         | Out of the box it is ready to do vim keybindings, emacs
         | keybindings, or CUA style keybindings. How practical, wouldn't
         | you say? :)
        
       | hassannawaz wrote:
       | Anyone interested can also check out the Vimium browser
       | extension.
        
         | derN3rd wrote:
         | There is also Homerow (homerow.app) for MacOS that does this on
         | a system level
        
           | aterp wrote:
           | Homerow looks very cool. Is it actively being supported?
           | Looks like it still uses App Center despite that being
           | sunset, plus the change log shows the last update in June
           | 2024, and before that in April 2023
        
         | the_gipsy wrote:
         | Or Tridactyl.
        
         | OvidNaso wrote:
         | Tridactyl for firefox is amazing too
        
           | poincaredisk wrote:
           | Or VimFx
        
         | beanaroo wrote:
         | Surfingkeys is my preferred extension
        
       | ramenbytes wrote:
       | The one thing holding me back from this is not being able to run
       | UBlock origin on it yet. I keep telling myself that eventually
       | I'll have the spare time to change that myself....
        
         | wongogue wrote:
         | It already has an adblocker. Check the FAQ.
        
           | ramenbytes wrote:
           | AdBlocker, yes. UBlock Origin, no. Maybe it's since reached
           | feature parity, last time I checked it hadn't from what I
           | could tell.
        
         | swhalemwo wrote:
         | so much this.. probably once a year I remember that nyxt would
         | be really cool to use, but then I see it still doesn't support
         | adblock on youtube and thus forget it again.
        
       | patrickkidger wrote:
       | So why this over qutebrowser [1] ? (Which has been my go-to
       | keyboard-first browser for a long time.) This isn't mentioned in
       | the FAQ despite I think being the natural comparison.
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser
        
         | llm_trw wrote:
         | Vim vs Emacs bindings for one.
        
           | yasser_kaddoura wrote:
           | You can configure both to use either.
           | 
           | List of emacs-like config in Qutebrowser:
           | 
           | https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser/blob/main/doc/hel.
           | ..
        
             | llm_trw wrote:
             | Like always it's a second class citizen. I spend a stupid 6
             | months trying to use emacs like vim. Emacs isn't a text
             | editor. If you need to edit text as a rectangle of
             | characters then you can drop in evil mode. Expecting to use
             | emacs control characters from evil mode it a bit like using
             | Kanji to write English.
        
               | jolmg wrote:
               | It was my experience too that it's better to commit to
               | using Emacs like Emacs. `C-x SPC` is the Emacs way to
               | select a rectangle of characters.
        
               | emptysongglass wrote:
               | Evil (VIM emulation mode in Emacs) does not in any way
               | behave like a second-class citizen. I use evil every
               | single day and it's fantastic.
               | 
               | Emacs is a text editor, yes, among other things.
               | 
               | If anyone is reading this who hasn't tried Emacs, don't
               | let takes like this spoil you giving Emacs a try. Doom
               | Emacs is a fantastic experience to get started but there
               | are more minimal starter kits that give you just evil-
               | mode to start.
        
               | llm_trw wrote:
               | I literally said you can use evil mode to edit text.
               | 
               | But trying to use vim inspired motion and editing in
               | other modes is a terrible idea. Just learn how Emacs does
               | it and stop thinking of everything as text. There is
               | usually deeper semantic meaning behind the syntax that an
               | Emacs mode will let you edit directly.
        
               | devjab wrote:
               | Doomemacs was everything I wanted Neovim to be for me
               | personally. I know it's a big war on the web, but for
               | some of us evil mode emacs is the easy way to use vim
               | motions.
               | 
               | The only real disadvantage for me is that it's
               | significantly easier to run Neovim on windows (work).
        
               | Y_Y wrote:
               | If you want to write English using kanji I recommend
               | starting here: https://www.zompist.com/yingzi/yingzi.htm
        
         | rgreekguy wrote:
         | Also no Python, all Common Lisp.
        
         | manx wrote:
         | I loved qutebrowser, but many pages didn't work because of the
         | rendering engine. That made me go back to Firefox.
        
           | rnhmjoj wrote:
           | The engine is QtWebEngine, which is essentially Chromium
           | without the proprietary stuff. It may a be a bit outdated,
           | but I've never seen a page not being rendered properly. Maybe
           | you used it way back when the default engine was QtWebKit.
        
             | manx wrote:
             | Interesting. I'll give it another try.
        
         | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
         | As someone who used Qute for a long time:
         | 
         | * Python is much slower than SBCL (yes, even if rendering is
         | done by Blink); including the lack of threading
         | 
         | * Bookmarks are pure crap, they don't have tags nor directories
         | to sort them better
         | 
         | * Less hackable (e.g. something that should be possible in
         | Nyxt: https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser/issues/3933)
         | 
         | * Massive gaps:
         | https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser/issues/2328
         | https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser/issues/2492
         | https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser/issues/5731 (!!!)
         | 
         | * Per domain/URL settings never progressed further than the
         | initial batch of properties:
         | https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser/issues/3636
         | 
         | * Adblocking is better than hostfile but still missing a lot
         | compared to uBlock
         | (https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser/issues/6480). No
         | script blocking matrix like uBlock "advanced mode" at all.
         | 
         | My impression is that it has been stuck in bug
         | fixing/dependency churn for a long time now. Switched to
         | Firefox while waiting for Nyxt to be usable (apparently, Nyxt 4
         | will be it).
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Nyxt does have ublock origin? It would be a must have for me
           | too.
        
             | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
             | Not yet, but Nyxt 4 is supposed to support WebExtensions.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | Nice!! Then I can also use my password manager and more.
               | Will deffo give it a try then. I hope it'll come soon.
        
           | treeshateorcs wrote:
           | you can redirect in QB. this is how i do it (from my config):
           | def redirect(info: interceptor.Request):             if
           | info.request_url.host() == "en.m.wikipedia.org":
           | new_url = QUrl(info.request_url)
           | new_url.setHost("en.wikipedia.org")                 try:
           | info.redirect(new_url)                 except
           | interceptors.RedirectFailedException:
           | pass
        
             | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
             | Cool, thanks for the tip!
        
           | rnhmjoj wrote:
           | > My impression is that it has been stuck in bug
           | fixing/dependency churn for a long time now
           | 
           | I don't think it's just your impression: it's exactly what
           | happened. Depending on Qt for the rendering engine means the
           | browser has been tied to the painfully long release cycle of
           | the whole of Qt. Quickly fixing bugs or implementing new
           | features is hard, they have to hack around limited APIs, beg
           | for more and continually fix new bugs introduced by upstream
           | (both Qt and google).
        
         | anonzzzies wrote:
         | For me; CL/SBCL. It is more fun _for me_.
        
       | nelsonfigueroa wrote:
       | The tree based history feature is amazing
        
         | bmacho wrote:
         | IMO browsers should remember browsing history (what pages have
         | I been on, and how did I get there), yet I never seen a browser
         | that can do that.
        
           | olejorgenb wrote:
           | Firefox does, but does a really poor you if exposing that
           | info. (See places.sqlite)
        
             | jolmg wrote:
             | Huh, you're right. I thought it only kept record of the
             | last visit to any URL, because that's what it shows in the
             | GUI, but the DB does have prior records... It's weird how
             | they went through the trouble of hiding entries in the GUI.
        
               | slightwinder wrote:
               | What do you mean with hiding? There is a whole submenu
               | for history, with multiple different interfaces for
               | navigating the history. For me it's right under bookmarks
               | in the app-menu/burger-menu, or in the sidebar.
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | Wonder if there are issues waiting. Recently Firefox
             | nightly got tab grouping, a old demand by users, so who
             | knows:)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related. Others?
       | 
       |  _Nyxt - The Hacker 's Browser_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39183823 - Jan 2024 (2
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Nyxt: The Hacker 's Browser_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36006423 - May 2023 (252
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Nyxt 3.0.0_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35869378 -
       | May 2023 (30 comments)
       | 
       |  _Why Lisp?_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35852321 -
       | May 2023 (327 comments)
       | 
       |  _Nyxt 3 Pre-release 1 (a Lisp powered web browser)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32097424 - July 2022 (66
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Lisp in Production: an interview with the guys behind Nyxt
       | Browser [video]_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30271989
       | - Feb 2022 (15 comments)
       | 
       |  _Nyxt browser annotations beat pen and paper_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30184792 - Feb 2022 (46
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _"Why should I use Nyxt if I can use Vimium?"_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28632422 - Sept 2021 (10
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Nyxt 2.2.0_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28623720 -
       | Sept 2021 (35 comments)
       | 
       |  _Nyxt - The Internet on Your Terms_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28037300 - Aug 2021 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _Show HN: Nyxt Browser 2.0.0_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27219646 - May 2021 (121
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Nyxt Browser_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26509612 -
       | March 2021 (125 comments)
       | 
       |  _Nyxt browser: mouseless copy /paste_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25956152 - Jan 2021 (56
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Dashboard for Nyxt_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25151976 - Nov 2020 (2
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Nyxt Browser 2.0.0 Pre-release_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24353927 - Sept 2020 (11
       | comments)
        
         | opan wrote:
         | It used to be called Next Browser, so older posts might call it
         | that.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Ah thanks! Extending backward:
           | 
           |  _Next browser 1.3.2: Hooks, file manager and clipboard ring_
           | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21023816 - Sept 2019
           | (1 comment)
           | 
           |  _Next browser 1.3.0: your Lisp daily driver_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20613661 - Aug 2019 (3
           | comments)
           | 
           |  _Next browser - web browser in Common LISP_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20064589 - May 2019 (49
           | comments)
           | 
           |  _Show HN: Next Browser native on Linux_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18608454 - Dec 2018 (114
           | comments)
           | 
           |  _Next browser campaign: last week of fundraising_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18308031 - Oct 2018 (2
           | comments)
           | 
           |  _Next Browser Feedback (Lisp)_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18038967 - Sept 2018 (2
           | comments)
           | 
           |  _Next - extensible keyboard-oriented web browser_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16985119 - May 2018 (15
           | comments)
           | 
           |  _Show HN: NEXT Browser - A Lisp-based browser_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16108081 - Jan 2018 (3
           | comments)
           | 
           |  _nEXT Browser: A nEXT Generation Extensible Lisp Browser -
           | Alpha_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15797548 - Nov
           | 2017 (12 comments)
           | 
           |  _Show HN: nEXT Browser - A Lisp-based browser_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15418719 - Oct 2017 (44
           | comments)
        
       | OsrsNeedsf2P wrote:
       | > Instantly switch between your tabs [...] Easily find relevant
       | tabs with a fuzzy search
       | 
       | I personally use virtual desktops for organizing windows of tabs,
       | but if I was one of the masochists who had 100+ open tabs, I
       | would be moving to this immediately
        
         | jolmg wrote:
         | As one such masochist, I hesitate because the tabs aren't tabs.
         | I'm not saying there should be tabs, but this is different. I
         | tend to see a page and open interesting links in new tabs, so
         | the tabs to the right of the current tab are related to this
         | tab. So, there's a tree-like organization to the tabs, even
         | though they're presented linearly. In this browser, that kind
         | of information seems lost, at least in its stock configuration.
         | 
         | Windows are also about particular topics, but here all windows
         | have all buffers available.
         | 
         | The fuzzy search doesn't really do anything for me. I'm not
         | really interested in seeing e.g. all Amazon tabs together. I'd
         | prefer to see some Amazon tabs that are about particular
         | selections of books next to other tabs of various URLs and
         | titles that are also about those particular selections of
         | books, and in the tree/linear-like order they were opened in.
         | 
         | Also, the tree-like order isn't always from following a link. I
         | may, for example, check out a book on an Amazon product page,
         | and a reviewer makes mention of other similar books, so I may
         | open tabs next to this one that search those titles somewhere
         | (DDG/Amazon/etc).
         | 
         | If I were to make this usable for me, it's probably by
         | automatically keeping record of what buffer I was on when I
         | opened a new one, then making a buffer that presents this
         | information in a modifiable tree. The fuzzy search can be
         | replaced by a search in this buffer. It would simply scroll to
         | the spot, so I'd have access to ancestors and descendants from
         | the match.
         | 
         | A benefit of generalizing to buffers rather than webpages is
         | that presumably I could make simple placeholder buffers that
         | act as parents representing topics where I would have used
         | windows in the past.
         | 
         | Also, I'd need keybindings to walk the tree like Ctrl-Tab and
         | Ctrl-Shift-Tab. Maybe also a way to set the root node for a
         | window, to limit the navigation of Ctrl-Tab in it.
         | 
         | Another thing is that it also facilitates closing tabs when
         | one's done with a topic. Firefox has "close all tabs to the
         | right" for that, though one can also middle click a tab
         | repeatedly until enough tabs have been closed to close a
         | (sub)topic. The buffer tree would simply need to have some
         | "close this and descendants" type of option.
        
           | forgotpwd16 wrote:
           | >If I were to make this usable for me, it's probably by
           | automatically keeping record of what buffer I was on when I
           | opened a new one, then making a buffer that presents this
           | information in a modifiable tree.
           | 
           | This is already available in the form you described as Global
           | History Tree. See: https://nyxt-browser.com/article/global-
           | history-tree.org
           | 
           | But this is only a presentation and no management (currently)
           | exists. A 1-1 window/buffer map is (also) an open issue.
        
         | trenchgun wrote:
         | Chrome has tab search. In MacOS, Shift+Cmd+A
        
         | matt_trentini wrote:
         | I am one of those masochists frequently with 200+ tabs open and
         | Firefox does an excellent job managing them.
         | 
         | Prefix a query with '%' to search only within open tabs.
        
       | binary_slinger wrote:
       | Some good ideas here especially the history tree and keyboard
       | history. Don't care much for the hacker = keyboard mentality, I
       | enjoy using my mouse.
        
         | softwreoutthere wrote:
         | "I don't want to learn. I don't want to drive. The more you
         | drive, the less intelligent you are."
        
         | sourcepluck wrote:
         | Please, it's only in the comments that people are reducing a
         | complex reality to a silly and childish "hacker = keyboard"
         | thing.
         | 
         | Nyxt aims to provide a great experience for emacs and vim users
         | from the first run, but also has CUA bindings, and also has
         | absolutely standard support for pointing, clicking, dragging,
         | you name it. Get your mousing hand ready, binary_slinger,
         | because the 1s and 0s are ready to get slung inside Nyxt
        
       | Valodim wrote:
       | Pretty wise comment about web extension support by the main dev
       | here: https://github.com/atlas-
       | engineer/nyxt/issues/2875#issuecomm...
        
         | mikae1 wrote:
         | _> People tend to think in terms of what they could lose, and
         | not in terms of potential gains. It 's easier for users to take
         | familiar extensions to a new browser, than having to learn how
         | to use an analog._
         | 
         | How is this thinking wise? What are the potential gains and
         | analogs for the end (without having to learn how to code)?
         | 
         | What is the analog to Bypass Paywalls Clean and Cookie
         | AutoDelete as an example?
         | 
         | If writing new extensions in Common Lisp was so easy, why do
         | they only list two extensions as available?[1]
         | 
         | Nyxt and qutebrowser target power users but leave out
         | WebExtension support. I think they'd be a lot more popular if
         | they didn't.
         | 
         | [1] https://nyxt.atlas.engineer/extensions
        
           | trenchgun wrote:
           | They do not leave out WebExtension support, they are working
           | to get there:
           | 
           | > We're focusing on #2989 since it will allow running Nyxt on
           | macOS and support WebExtensions. https://github.com/atlas-
           | engineer/nyxt/issues/2875#issuecomm...
        
             | trenchgun wrote:
             | Like, they are working on it right now. Or the
             | prerequisite, to get electron version of Nyxt working.
             | https://github.com/atlas-engineer/nyxt/issues/3544
        
           | Valodim wrote:
           | Did you interpret the comment as an argument for not having
           | web extensions and recreating the features builtin instead?
           | Because I'm fairly sure it's saying the opposite, even the
           | last you quoted.
        
         | Valodim wrote:
         | Another interesting one, about whether or not to build on
         | electron: https://github.com/atlas-
         | engineer/nyxt/issues/2989#issuecomm...
        
       | Ylpertnodi wrote:
       | Took a while to find this (windows user, me - always looking for
       | something new):
       | 
       | For which operating systems is Nyxt available?
       | 
       | Linux BSD (unofficial) macOS (experimental) Windows (unofficial
       | (via WSL))
       | 
       | Official ports for Windows and macOS are in development.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | As someone that started in computing when affordable computing
       | was all about keyboard, and mices only existed in computers with
       | prices similar to buying a car or a mortgage, I don't get the
       | hype of keyboard == hacker mentality.
       | 
       | Specially since that on my hacker circle of Demoscene, during the
       | 16 bit days, we were mostly on Atari and Amiga systems, then we
       | had plenty of mouse time, and no one ever stop to wonder we
       | weren't hackers because we had mices.
        
         | lll-o-lll wrote:
         | Even outside of the "hacker" community, keyboard has always
         | been associated with higher expertise. Average "MS Word" user -
         | Navigate through various menus to find what they want to do.
         | Power Users - Memorized all the "shortcuts".
         | 
         | I think that's mostly what it is. A keyboard (and a bunch of
         | memorizing), gives mastery over the applications UI.
        
           | anonzzzies wrote:
           | I still miss Wordperfect for that reason: messing around with
           | Word wysiwyg, even with people who have decades of
           | experience, is just painful to watch or do.
        
             | gcanyon wrote:
             | WordStar!!! :-) I wrote two novels in that thing.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | Check WordTsar
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Some shortcuts are helpful, until one needs to do anything
           | that affects visual position or drawing.
           | 
           | Very few people master shortcuts that require three key
           | chords or more.
        
           | pdntspa wrote:
           | Maybe it just strokes the egos of those desperate for some
           | validation
        
         | poincaredisk wrote:
         | >I don't get the hype of keyboard == hacker mentality.
         | 
         | This is not about a hype or "looking cool". Mouse and GUIs are
         | faster and more ergonomic for exploratory activities ("how do I
         | do X" for a new task, skimming a document or folder, etc),
         | while keyboard (keyboard shortcuts, command line) is faster for
         | routine, repeatable tasks. Web browsing is full of the latter.
         | 
         | I personally strongly prefer the keyboard and find it
         | exhausting to reach for the mouse all the time, but it's a
         | matter of personal preference. I don't think less of someone
         | when I see they heavily use the mouse when programming, though
         | in my opinion they are missing out.
        
           | pasc1878 wrote:
           | Browsing is mainly of exploration (e.g. reading) then data
           | entry (which does require a keyboard but all on one page no
           | scrolling) and much less repeatable tasks.
           | 
           | My hand is usually already on the mouse. Switching apps,
           | scrolling text etc.
           | 
           | I started on PC-DOS and mainframes so was originally all
           | keyboard, but having mouse made things much easier for me.
           | 
           | Now don't get me started on gestures - I can never remember
           | any. - Which might be some of the reason to use mice I can't
           | remember a lot of keyboard shortcuts let me have discoverable
           | menus etc. Pit Smalltalk did not become mainstream.
        
             | Borg3 wrote:
             | Thats interesting. Im using GUI Windows OS, but im very
             | heavy keyboard user, utilizing shortcuts and alt+tab for
             | windows switching. I barely even use start or desktop to
             | start most common apps I use. I wrote myself QuickRun tool
             | that is activated by Win+Q, and I type what I want to run.
             | Usually its just 2-3 first letters of alias name, like bash
             | and autocompletion kicks in. Mouse is used mostly to
             | position windows sometimes. Keyboard is just much faster..
        
               | pbhjpbhj wrote:
               | Do you use multiple desktops? Windows seems terrible at
               | positioning windows, I can't work out how to tell a
               | window to move to the next desktop, say, or just start on
               | a particular desktop (nevermind start at a particular
               | position). Instead it takes a lot of mouse work just to
               | setup after a boot/reboot.
               | 
               | Do you have a solution?
               | 
               | I'm stuck with native solutions, otherwise I gather this
               | can be fixed with AHK. I'm interested in what you use
               | either way.
        
               | cropcirclbureau wrote:
               | I'm currently using this[0] AutoHotkey script library for
               | such purposes.
               | 
               | [0]: https://github.com/FuPeiJiang/VD.ahk
        
               | Borg3 wrote:
               | Yeah I am, but im on very old Windows.. Also, I never
               | bother that much about windows positioning. Because most
               | stuff is usually maximized already, hence I often use
               | alt+tab to switch. As for multiple desktops, I use
               | Desktops 2.0 with is great little utility to create 4
               | virtual desktops. You can switch between them using
               | Win+[1-4] so again, keyboard shortcuts. You cannot move
               | windows between desktops but its not issue for me. I like
               | this feature actually. I treat those desktops like some
               | contexts. Basic, Work, VM.. So, apps cannot escape given
               | desktop.. And apps are nicely segregated this way. Switch
               | is instant.
        
               | card_zero wrote:
               | I've never seen the point of multiple desktops, but I
               | went and found out the answer to the first question
               | anyway. You hold down win+tab, a nice layout appears
               | showing all your windows and all your desktops, and you
               | drag a window to a desktop.
               | 
               | I notice you can also reorder the desktops: right click
               | (while holding win+tab), select "move left". _Maybe_ it
               | will then boot into whichever one 's leftmost.
        
               | zeagle wrote:
               | I'm curious what extras you can do with your tool. I use
               | spotlight style search with Microsoft powertoys with good
               | effect. Admitidly stuff like unit conversion doesn't come
               | up often but very helpful for finding files and apps
               | compared to Windows search.
        
               | Borg3 wrote:
               | Absolutly no extras. I used to use SlickRun with is much
               | more heavier tool, but I never ever used those extras.
               | And since I started to using Desktops 2.0, I had to write
               | my own tool that was aware of virtual desktops.
               | Everything else I handle from bash (Cygwin).
               | 
               | You can take a look at it here:
               | http://borg.uu3.net/~borg/?quickrun
               | 
               | Be aware tho, it looks ugly in Win10 and onward.
        
             | hyperhopper wrote:
             | > My hand is usually already on the mouse. Switching apps,
             | scrolling text etc.
             | 
             | When using Linux my hand is almost never on the mouse and I
             | groan when I have to do it. My terminal, browser
             | experience, mp3 player, IRC client, etc, are all usable
             | with only a key board. Even rearranging windows is just a
             | keyboard action.
             | 
             | Even on windows, I can't remember the last time I switched
             | windows with a mouse instead of alt tab. Scrolling text is
             | just pressing j in vimium or even in vanilla chrome just
             | pressing spacebar. If your hand is on the mouse that much
             | you're probably not being optimal
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | What a wonderful DG/UX like user experience....
        
           | hakfoo wrote:
           | I was surprised that Trackpoint-style devices still remain a
           | niche product since it explicitly solves the "I need to move
           | the cursor but don't want to reach for the mouse" problem.
           | 
           | I'm aware of about four models of standalone keyboard with it
           | available, but that's trivial even compared to the bazillion
           | keyboards with touchpads for couch typing.
        
         | corank wrote:
         | For text editors or IDEs, basically contexts where we expect a
         | lot of typing, I get why sticking to the keyboard is desirable.
         | I don't get how it's better to browse the web without using the
         | mouse. Most of the time on the web I just read, not type.
        
           | christophilus wrote:
           | For me, I'm often using the web as a reference while
           | programming. It's nice to be able to flip over to it (using
           | the keyboard) and use the same familiar key bindings I'm
           | using while in my workflow.
        
             | corank wrote:
             | That's indeed a nice use case. In general keeping to the
             | keyboard can be helpful in the context of typing, but if
             | I'm just reading news or blog posts or watching videos I'd
             | go with a mouse.
        
           | opan wrote:
           | >Most of the time on the web I just read, not type.
           | 
           | This is kind of why it works. In vim you spend most of your
           | time in normal mode, reading, moving around, making quick
           | edits. It takes good advantage of the whole keyboard even
           | when you're not writing new text. I use qutebrowser, which
           | has default vim-style bindings for everything and an emphasis
           | on the keyboard. It works very well.
        
             | corank wrote:
             | I think an important difference between how I use vim and
             | how I use a web browser is that in vim I need to type
             | frequently. Though I may spend most time in normal mode in
             | vim, I still need to switch to insert mode to make edits
             | very frequently. With my normal web browsing it's not the
             | case, so I'm more comfortable with a mouse for that. But I
             | realise that this depends largely on the specific use case
             | for web browsing. Reading blog posts is quite different
             | from reading some documentation where one needs to search
             | and backtrack frequently, for example, although both are
             | done on a web browser. The latter involves the keyboard
             | more frequently so would benefit from a keyboard-centric
             | interface more.
        
             | paulryanrogers wrote:
             | I wonder how much of that is how and when one comes up in
             | the industry. I learned a little vi at uni only by
             | necessity after years of DOS and Windows 3/9x. It felt so
             | awkward. Decades later I only use vi on servers, but slowly
             | its macro ('normal') mode has grown on me.
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | > I don't get the hype of keyboard == hacker mentality.
         | 
         | It's all about investing a little time to learn something that
         | dramatically speeds up your workflow. A mainstream user has no
         | interest in this even if they work with the computer all day.
         | Hackers as computer enthusiasts do.
         | 
         | When you worked on those early computers you either had to be
         | an enthusiast or be forced by an employer to use them :)
         | 
         | GUIs are great for infrequent tasks. TUIs for efficiency at
         | frequent ones.
        
           | ucosty wrote:
           | We're talking about a web browser, right? What workflow?
        
             | kstenerud wrote:
             | It's an elitism thing. Notice the terminology "investing
             | time to dramatically speed up workflow". This is the mantra
             | that the keyboard-only adherents have latched onto, and
             | extend to EVERYTHING, including things that are perfectly
             | serviced via mouse control, or don't even need speeding up.
             | 
             | Arguing with them is like arguing with audiophiles.
        
               | anonzzzies wrote:
               | Not sure why arguing is needed? You like a mouse, I think
               | it sucks. If we meet up, we can trivially measure what is
               | faster. What is there to argue?
        
               | codingdave wrote:
               | Or we can not measure which is faster and just respect
               | that everyone has their own preferences.
        
               | anonzzzies wrote:
               | Also fine :)) Just no need to argue about it.
        
               | goku12 wrote:
               | The irony is that the side accusing keyboard users of
               | elitism is asking them to respect everyone's preferences!
               | Sure, but the keyboard users didn't start this discussion
               | either.
        
               | card_zero wrote:
               | How to make interfaces for popular software. Or even
               | unpopular software.
        
               | qwertox wrote:
               | What strikes me as odd is that this browser is not in a
               | terminal, but in a window. So no usage through SSH, no
               | terminal benefits, which are the origin of the keyboard-
               | oriented workflow.
               | 
               | When I press F12, does an inspector open? Where does it
               | open? When I select some words, how do I send them to a
               | new tab in YouTube, Amazon, Google or Stack Overflow? How
               | do I open all the links which are within a selected
               | rectangle in new background tabs? Or use uBlock Origin's
               | element picker?
               | 
               | I'm pretty sure this browser is super fast and all is
               | super optimized and a top tier workflow, but mostly in
               | certain limited scenarios.
        
               | ramenbytes wrote:
               | > When I press F12, does an inspector open? Where does it
               | open? When I select some words, how do I send them to a
               | new tab in YouTube, Amazon, Google or Stack Overflow? How
               | do I open all the links which are within a selected
               | rectangle in new background tabs? Or use uBlock Origin's
               | element picker?
               | 
               | What did you think of the demos? The sorts of things you
               | mentioned seem like things doable in NYXT based on the
               | demos, possibly even the exact sort of stuff they are
               | trying to make possible. It looks like it's basically
               | Common Lisp with a web browser attached, which suggests
               | it should be fairly moldable too. I have not seriously
               | used it myself though, so I can't say for sure what the
               | limits are.
        
             | anonzzzies wrote:
             | You use the browser only to browse? We have all kinds of,
             | usually quite shitty, web apps all types of LoB, ERP, etc.
             | There is a _lot_ of workflow to improve on.
             | 
             | Not necessarily with Nyxt or keyboard of course.
        
               | skydhash wrote:
               | Even with a pdf browser, keyboard shortcuts come in
               | handy. Especially with a big enough screen so that you
               | can display the whole page at once.
        
             | raydev wrote:
             | Finding relevant text quickly. On the web. The web is where
             | you go to find more information.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | I don't consider being computer enthusiasts a synonymous with
           | keyboard only use.
           | 
           | As mentioned, I started into computing when TUIs were the
           | only affordable computing model.
           | 
           | There is no magic to me about whatever greatness of TUI and
           | CLI.
        
         | tsukurimashou wrote:
         | its a productivity thing, would you rather type text with a
         | physical keyboard or would you rather use a virtual keyboard
         | and mouse?
         | 
         | you can miss more easily with a mouse and have to adjust the
         | position of the cursor to line up on two axis before any action
        
           | kstenerud wrote:
           | That's a false dichotomy. I'd rather have a physical keyboard
           | and a physical mouse (or touchpad).
           | 
           | The "line up the two axis" thing is immaterial, and has no
           | practical impact on actual productivity.
        
             | dartos wrote:
             | Minimal impact and no impact different.
             | 
             | "Line up the two axes" was kind of a silly way to put it,
             | but the position you aim your cursor varies quite often,
             | but where you type on a keyboard doesn't.
             | 
             | You can develop muscle memory for the latter. It's why
             | hotkeys are so widely used.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Why bringing virtual keyboard into the picture, we aren't
           | talking about tablets and phones.
        
           | codingdave wrote:
           | That is a really biased way to spin things. Of course virtual
           | keyboards are the worst of both worlds. And lining up a mouse
           | on multiple axes is just an odd way to look at it -- on a
           | keyboard you need to line up your fingertip on three axes for
           | every keystroke, if you are wanting to go to that level of
           | detail.
        
             | dartos wrote:
             | I don't think it's very biased.
             | 
             | When using a mouse you need to completely move your hand to
             | another device, and aim that device at an arbitrary
             | position.
             | 
             | With a keyboard the positions you move your fingers are
             | fixed and because of that, you can develop muscle memory
             | and type very quickly without thinking about where to move
             | your fingers. It's called "touch typing."
             | 
             | There's no such thing for using a mouse since the target
             | position of the mouse movement can vary wildly from website
             | to website and can vary based on the position of a given
             | window.
        
               | codingdave wrote:
               | Using a mouse is completely natural if you do it often.
               | So is using a pen on a tablet. Whatever you use, you get
               | so used to it that is it an extension of your own hands
               | or whatever you use to control input. Your own bias is
               | showing in the assumption that you can develop muscle
               | memory for keys but not other input devices, or that
               | because links are in different places, the mouse becomes
               | cumbersome.
        
               | dartos wrote:
               | You can't develop muscle memory when your target movement
               | isn't the same.
               | 
               | Using a mouse is natural as in intuitive. You don't need
               | to really tech someone to use a mouse. It's easy in that
               | way.
               | 
               | But that's not the same as muscle memory. Using my hands
               | is very natural, but when learning guitar, I still need
               | to be conscious of what position my hand is going to be
               | in. After a while, since my hand is constantly going to
               | the exact same position, I develop muscle memory and no
               | longer need to be conscious of where my hand is going.
               | 
               | I feel like I shouldn't need to explain muscle memory
               | with analogy.
        
               | jorvi wrote:
               | Touchpads exist.
               | 
               | A mouse (or rather, a floating cursor) is often a much
               | more efficient way to get your cursor in position than
               | slamming your arrow or hjkl keys multiple dozens of
               | times.
        
               | dartos wrote:
               | Touchpads don't solve for muscle memory for the same
               | reasons mouses don't.
               | 
               | And yeah, of course. Most people who use keyboard based
               | workflows dont just use hjkl to move a cursor around. In
               | vim, for example, there are many more text-centric ways
               | of moving around a document.
               | 
               | Using a keyboard is generally much faster. Try using your
               | daily code editor without any hot keys at all. No F5, no
               | Ctrl-s, none of that.
        
               | jorvi wrote:
               | > Touchpads don't solve for muscle memory for the same
               | reasons mouses don't.
               | 
               | Uh, what? I have my touchpad tuned so that one swipe from
               | top left to bottom right is exactly equal to going from
               | the top left to bottom right of my display. And aside
               | from that, how do you think people play FPS games, that
               | they think about every mouse movement and then do it?
               | 
               | > Most people who use keyboard based workflows dont just
               | use hjkl to move a cursor around.
               | 
               | > Try using your daily code editor
               | 
               | One of the few usecases where you can do that, and in
               | general is extremely heavily biased towards keyboard use.
               | 
               | Having a touchpad or mouse is great because it is
               | adaptable and versatile. It doesn't require the
               | application developer to have accommodated every step a
               | keyboard user wants to optimize for. Not to mention there
               | is no "quickly" using your keyboard with one hand if you
               | constantly need to hold modifier keys :)
               | 
               | > Using a keyboard is generally much faster.
               | 
               | That was my point, it is until it isn't. On any
               | application without Vim or EMacs bindings I'll happily be
               | leaping over hundreds of lines of text with one or two
               | swipes whilst you are sitting there, going
               | _taptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptap_
               | with horrid inefficiency.
        
               | dartos wrote:
               | > Uh, what? I have my touchpad tuned so that one swipe
               | from top left to bottom right is exactly equal to going
               | from the top left to bottom right of my display. And
               | aside from that, how do you think people play FPS games,
               | that they think about every mouse movement and then do
               | it?
               | 
               | I think that FPS players are conscious of where they are
               | aiming. They don't just automatically move their mouse in
               | the exact same way to hit every enemy on screen.
               | 
               | There may be some specific movements, like swiping or
               | turning 180 degrees which have a specific motion (or
               | gesture) related to it, but that isn't the same as
               | aiming, which you can't memorize as where you aim is
               | different every time depending on your targets position
               | and movement.
               | 
               | > Not to mention there is no "quickly" using your
               | keyboard with one hand if you constantly need to hold
               | modifier keys :)
               | 
               | Yes there is :)
               | 
               | > On any application without Vim or EMacs bindings I'll
               | happily be leaping over hundreds of lines of text with
               | one or two swipes whilst you are sitting there.
               | 
               | I'm sorry, but this is a bad argument. Obviously is
               | software isn't made to support keyboard centric use, it
               | will not be great to use it only with a keyboard.
               | 
               | Imagine if you were writing a book, but your software
               | wasn't made with keyboard support. You'd need to use the
               | mouse to click every letter. Or one where each clickable
               | button is buried in >3 layers of dropdown menus. That
               | would be equally terrible.
               | 
               | If you have an application optimized for keyboard
               | interaction, it will be faster (tho less intuitive) to
               | interact with it than one which is optimized for mouse
               | movements.
               | 
               | There is a good compromise between speed of use and
               | intuitive usability which is mouse-centric with hot keys.
               | 
               | But to interact as quickly as possible, you'd want to
               | stick with one consistent input device, and motion based
               | input devices don't cut it.
               | 
               | I mean use what you want though. If you like using a
               | mouse, use it.
        
               | skydhash wrote:
               | > I'll happily be leaping over hundreds of lines of text
               | with one or two swipes whilst you are sitting there
               | 
               | I'd be doing search and land exactly where I need to be.
               | For each important operation, there's always a more
               | efficient operations as shortcuts are composable in a way
               | pointing is not.
        
           | JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote:
           | I guess it depends on the kind of application. I use the
           | keyboard a lot, but I'd kill myself if I had to use the git
           | command-line interface. Once I bought Sublime Merge, I
           | stopped learning what was (and still is) a waste of time to
           | me. I'm faster with a global visual description and a mouse
           | for some tools.
        
             | skydhash wrote:
             | While Sublime Merge is a nice piece of software, Magit is
             | the very best example of a power user tool. Fast,
             | versatile, and intuitive.
        
         | goodpoint wrote:
         | Keyboard is not only faster, but requires less attention.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Depends on the typing skills between chair and monitor.
        
         | shiomiru wrote:
         | For best ergonomics, both should be well supported.
         | 
         | If I'm programming and want to look up something in the docs,
         | then it's annoying to switch to the mouse and then back, but I
         | pretty much have to with traditional browser UI. (Or tab
         | through a million links to find the right button to click, use
         | cursor keys to scroll, etc.)
         | 
         | Similarly, if I'm just scrolling around with the mouse, then I
         | should be able to do everything that I can with the keyboard
         | (apart from text input). The context menu is good for
         | discoverability, but being context-dependent makes it
         | impossible to rely on muscle memory.
        
         | vunderba wrote:
         | I think you're projecting a bit. I'm sure there are a few weird
         | KEYBOARD VS MOUSE people that occupy the same bizarre neurotic
         | domain space as TABS VS SPACES, but most people just have their
         | own personal preference and leave it at that.
         | 
         | Personally, it's not about what's faster - it's about
         | _switching_. If my hands are already resting lightly on the
         | keyboard, then the keyboard is faster - and vice versa.
         | 
         | To decrease the amount of switching I have to do, I use an
         | extension called Vimium that quickly highlights all links with
         | key bindings. For example "g i" automatically puts the first
         | <input> level field into focus.
         | 
         | https://github.com/philc/vimium
        
         | antasvara wrote:
         | As a younger person, I've never really been alive for a
         | computer that had no mouse.
         | 
         | So for people of my generation, it's really only the tech savvy
         | ones that would use key commands for anything but the most
         | rudimentary stuff (think copy, paste, save, and print).
         | 
         | Thats not to say that keyboard == hacker mentality, but that a
         | keyboard-first tool like this wouldn't really target the
         | average consumer at this point.
        
         | sourcepluck wrote:
         | > I don't get the hype of keyboard == hacker mentality
         | 
         | There's no (or extremely little...) hype, it's just the sort of
         | thing which starts to appear prominent in a world where
         | conversations are driven more and more by the titles on videos
         | and articles, rather than the other way around.
         | 
         | I claim that the following are all pretty factual, all at once:
         | 
         | 1. meese can be faster and more convenient, in certain cases
         | 
         | 2. keyboards can be faster and more convenient, in certain
         | cases
         | 
         | 3. what people (even the computer-savvy) are used to matters
         | much more than what is "objectively" best or fastest or
         | whatever
         | 
         | 4. "hacker" is a polysemic term - playful creative norm-
         | bending, technical mastery of some domain, making Ataris and
         | Amigas do funny stuff it seems they shouldn't have been able
         | to, getting access to a gaming console you weren't supposed to,
         | solving a problem in a surprising manner, reverse engineering
         | some game, etc
         | 
         | 5. emacs is an empowering, wonderful text editor
         | 
         | 6. so is (hyper/super/ultra/n/eo/) vi(m)
         | 
         | 7. nyxt is about much more than keyboard shortcuts (Lisp,
         | freedom, etc)
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | I think it goes like this https://i.imgflip.com/9d2ec7.jpg
        
       | guerrilla wrote:
       | WebKit backend though, right?
        
         | jolmg wrote:
         | Yes, but they're trying to add a Chrome-based one:
         | 
         | https://github.com/atlas-engineer/nyxt/issues/2989
         | 
         | They have this repo for Common Lisp bindings to QtWebEngine,
         | but it's been archived:
         | 
         | https://github.com/atlas-engineer/cl-webengine
         | 
         | Seems they're currently trying Electron:
         | 
         | https://github.com/atlas-engineer/cl-electron
        
           | guerrilla wrote:
           | Oh, that's disappointing. I want this on Gecko, to support
           | the competition and get away from Firefox's increasingly
           | user-unfriendly UI.
        
             | ethagnawl wrote:
             | Have you checked out Zen?
             | 
             | https://zen-browser.app/
        
       | brimstedt wrote:
       | Any initiative to make a fast powerful UI is a good one imo.
       | 
       | Some features, like clipboard history and window management (i.e
       | "tabs") are better left to the desktop environment though. Every
       | app shouldn't need to reimplement this logic.
        
         | forgotpwd16 wrote:
         | The homepage probably to broaden the audience talks about
         | _tabs_ but as can see in screencasts, in-program, they 're
         | called (borrowing from Emacs) _buffers_. In contrast to tabs,
         | buffers don 't belong to a specific window and can switch to
         | one within another window.
        
       | Bigie wrote:
       | I've used this browser for a long time. At first, it was very
       | promising, but later on, I found it quite distracting when I
       | needed to work, so I had to give up. If you enjoy the vim-style
       | feel of operation, you might want to try this browser's
       | extension, as it can accommodate your habits along with normal
       | web browsing. Of course, I still hope that the browser can
       | improve, and I will try downloading it again to use for a while.
       | 
       | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/vimium/dbepggeogbai...
        
         | sam_lowry_ wrote:
         | I am using Vimium all the time. It's so ingrained in my muscle
         | memory that I do not remember the key combinations anymore.
        
       | falqun wrote:
       | I don't know, I feel like some of the more pressing features of
       | this browser are already provided with add-ons such as Vimium.
       | And I would really like to see this on a Firefox back-end /
       | compatible with the likes of uBlock origin. I don't want to have
       | another chrome derivative that has a fancy new UI to boast.
        
       | ecef9-8c0f-4374 wrote:
       | The comments got me already antagonistic towards the project.
       | 
       | But what I saw was quite nice. I mean I won't switch my default
       | browser but there were some good ideas.
        
       | jpgvm wrote:
       | Not sure if anyone else remembers uzbl but I'm sad that didn't
       | catch on. Will give this a go I guess.
        
         | theiasson wrote:
         | I definitely remember ( and miss) both uzbl and luakit.
        
       | sylware wrote:
       | A hacker browser is either:
       | 
       | - an headless big tech engine (blink|webkit|geeko) with AI bots
       | strapped to a virtual mouse and virtual keyboard, probably
       | installed on compromised systems, and remotely controlled.
       | 
       | - a real everyday hacker browser, namely certainly not with a c++
       | big tech engine (blink|webkit|geeko), but along the line of a
       | simple no-gc computer language which does not require an insane
       | compiler (excluding de-facto c++,java,rust,etc). Ofc, they will
       | have to piggy back the planned obsolescence of Big Tech browsers
       | and shadowy permanent compatibility breaking of Big Tech with
       | their engine (don't forget big tech wants to make you dependent
       | on their own complexity, not anything else).
        
       | jarbus wrote:
       | As long as qutebrowser still works, I'll stay loyal. Designed for
       | vim keys first and foremost + python config is plenty for me.
        
       | wruza wrote:
       | I love visual navigation and exploration and wish programming was
       | mouse-only too (with an on-screen keyboard to help with names).
       | I'm actually using this setup for browsing - lots of bookmarks
       | and gestures and an on-screen kbd.
       | 
       | Typing is overrated. Very sad that our tools are all typing-
       | based.
       | 
       | (Yes I can point at least at prolog, epilog, mov reg,imm and int
       | nn parts in a 8086 hexdump, if you're curious how true of a
       | hacker this is.)
        
       | ezequiel-garzon wrote:
       | This is a timely coincidence for me. I started using yesterday
       | Shortcat [1] for the Mac, and I'm very pleased. It gives you
       | access to pretty much everything with the keyboard, not just the
       | browser. To be fair, Nyxt provides other features such as
       | scripting.
       | 
       | [1] https://shortcat.app/
        
         | hiatus wrote:
         | I really wish it was open-source. I loved the concept and the
         | app worked in most applications (though not the best with
         | Slack). But I have reservations when it comes to granting full
         | screen access to an app made by some unknown developer.
        
           | Vegenoid wrote:
           | I feel the same, so I simply block its network access (via
           | LuLu), and it works just fine that way. I wish it was open
           | source so I could hack on it and so development could
           | continue - it's a really cool idea and works pretty well.
        
       | ethagnawl wrote:
       | I was intrigued until I saw this in the FAQ:
       | 
       | > What is Nyxt?
       | 
       | > Nyxt is a browser with deeply integrated AI and semantic
       | document tools that work as a second brain to help you process
       | and understand more, more quickly.
       | 
       | No mention of what sort of "AI", where it's run, etc. If nothing
       | else, this sounds like a recipe for a warm laptop and unreliable
       | results.
        
         | sigmonsays wrote:
         | The AI plug is obligatory. They have to ride the hype train
         | too.
         | 
         | This browser was around before AI was popular and when I used
         | it, it was great. The only downside is the lack of ability to
         | run extensions, like bitwarden.
        
           | goku12 wrote:
           | Nyxt is supposed to be as extensible as Emacs and way more
           | extensible than mainstream browsers that use WebExtensions.
           | The lack of extensions is likely due to its miniscule market
           | share.
        
             | avodonosov wrote:
             | Somebody should use the extrnsibility to integrate it with
             | blockchain then, to make even more cool.
             | 
             | (and more hot)
        
               | yapyap wrote:
               | hahaha, you're joking right? honestly I can't tell over
               | text
        
               | margalabargala wrote:
               | Not at all. A blockchain integration will go perfectly
               | with the builtin AI.
        
               | avodonosov wrote:
               | Joking. But there is some truth in every joke...
        
             | slightwinder wrote:
             | > The lack of extensions is likely due to its miniscule
             | market share.
             | 
             | It's because they are not implementing support for
             | WebExtensions. Which is of course not that simple, but it's
             | not because of lacking market share.
             | 
             | And it seems they are kinda have it on the list[1], by
             | switching to chromium[2].
             | 
             | [1] https://github.com/atlas-engineer/nyxt/issues/2875 [2]
             | https://github.com/atlas-engineer/nyxt/issues/2989
        
         | dartos wrote:
         | Nyxt has been around long before the whole ai hype.
         | 
         | I guess they're just trying ti ride the marketing wave.
        
         | medo-bear wrote:
         | im inclined to believe this is gof ai not nn ai
        
           | sourcepluck wrote:
           | Had to look that up: "Good Old-Fashioned Artificial
           | Intelligence"
        
         | sourcepluck wrote:
         | I agree that's is a bad look, and I wonder who does Nyxt's
         | writing. And I wonder what they mean, I didn't think there was
         | any sort of LLM integration, and definintely not built in...
         | has something changed there?
         | 
         | Do they just mean it's built with Lisp? What are these semantic
         | document tools?
        
           | ksp-atlas wrote:
           | When I first tried nyxt I never saw anything about AI (I
           | never ended up using it because it would frequently crash and
           | it was annoying to customize)
        
         | scrps wrote:
         | Just clustering, which makes sense, as far as I can see peeking
         | at the code. Whole codebase is lisp which I don't have a ton of
         | experience with so caveat emptor.
         | 
         | https://github.com/atlas-engineer/nyxt/tree/master/libraries...
        
         | vindarel wrote:
         | Last time I looked there was no AI at all. I guess it's a
         | buzzword the so called manager of the team felt obliged to put
         | in.
        
       | kelsey98765431 wrote:
       | Pretty sure firefox is the hackers browser
        
         | sourcepluck wrote:
         | Somebody call jwz, quick
        
       | geddawm wrote:
       | It's a show stopper that there's no macos support (afaiu).
       | Eagerly awaiting that...
        
       | alanbernstein wrote:
       | What I want is a hacker's bookmark manager, but integrated into
       | my existing browser (Firefox).
        
         | irthomasthomas wrote:
         | I use nyxt browser and a lisp function to send my bookmarks to
         | GitHub issue. my domain https://undecidability.com redirects to
         | it. And the code for it is at
         | https://GitHub.com/irthomasthomas/label-maker (it started as an
         | gh issues ai manager. Bookmarks is just my main use-case for
         | that)
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | Does still need "show multiple pages in the same window"
       | functionality though. If I can segment emacs, I should be able to
       | segment my hacker browser.
        
       | sourcepluck wrote:
       | When are we getting a web engine written in SBCL? :) or how hard
       | would it be, I wonder...
       | 
       | One thing about Nyxt that's great is this idea of trying to push
       | towards being renderer-agnostic. I'm not sure how achievable that
       | is in reality, but when you hear the idea you think oh yeah,
       | surely that would make sense if we want to have good things in
       | the world.
       | 
       | To all the people saying "I like my mouse! Why are these keyboard
       | people so elitist!", the Nyxt people are not on a crusade against
       | your lovely mouse. This isn't ratpoison (a window manager I
       | adored using for a while, but that's a different story).
       | 
       | I have never seen anything on the Nyxt blog or elsewhere claiming
       | mouse-users aren't humans, with full rights, deserving of fine
       | browsing experiences like the rest of us. If I missed something,
       | go ahead, please link it to us all and prove your point.
        
         | sourcepluck wrote:
         | https://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/inspiration.html
         | 
         | That's linked to from the ratpoison page, I enjoyed reading it
         | a few years ago, it hasn't gotten any less funny in the
         | meantime.
         | 
         | Why did I ever leave ratpoison...
        
       | arminiusreturns wrote:
       | I wish it was a GPL compat license, but a common lisp renderer
       | agnostic system has me super curious!
       | 
       | edit: ok this is fast and I like it! eww take a backseat!
        
       | ThinkBeat wrote:
       | I have been interested in this project for a while now. That
       | somebody has now added to the documentation:
       | 
       | "Nyxt is a browser with deeply integrated AI"
       | 
       | Made me entirely lose interest.
       | 
       | It sounds like it could be a privay problem
       | 
       | I did however dig deep to figure out what their EULA and
       | whatnotstates. (or the code)
        
       | drakenot wrote:
       | Every time I've tried to use Qutebrowser, or similar -- I end up
       | bouncing from it because I want proper extension support.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-12-08 23:01 UTC)