[HN Gopher] I algorithmically donated $5000 to Open Source
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I algorithmically donated $5000 to Open Source
        
       Author : lorey
       Score  : 348 points
       Date   : 2024-12-03 22:45 UTC (5 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kvinogradov.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kvinogradov.com)
        
       | lorey wrote:
       | Had to modify the title slightly to pass validation. Also "How [I
       | algo...]" got removed, did not know that happens automatically.
        
         | asicsp wrote:
         | You can edit the title after submission (the automatic change
         | won't trigger).
        
       | mrbluecoat wrote:
       | Great post! I wish all companies would recognize their dependency
       | on open source and compensate accordingly.
        
       | 38 wrote:
       | 5000 is not that much anymore, especially in the US. would have
       | been better to split into $1000 chunks instead of $200
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | I know at least one of the maintainers in the list, I know they
         | live in the US and their project is something they maintain as
         | a hobby with no expectation of retribution, and I know they are
         | probably ecstatic to receive a small grant.
        
         | mikelward wrote:
         | Yeah, it's not much. But the publicity and the methodology and
         | the possibility of others doing the same is more impactful than
         | just the financial resources the author had.
        
           | kvinogradov wrote:
           | Thanks. That's a start experiment - I am going to donate more
           | using this approach in the future and hope that other people
           | will join me in this non-profit initiative.
           | 
           | While any particular donation I made to OSS maintainers is
           | small, it seems important that the recipients get more
           | attention and maybe will be less likely to burn out in the
           | future. For instance, some of them (btw, from Nebraska!) did
           | not receive anything for 18 years of contributing to OSS
           | before last week: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li
           | :activity:7269812...?
        
       | Wilduck wrote:
       | I think this is a really interesting model for providing funding
       | to open source software. There's something about the "Index Fund"
       | approach that is really appealing. I also think it's interesting
       | that the author was both balancing "value" and "risk". I do
       | wonder, if this became a more dominant strategy for providing
       | funding for open source how you would deal with a couple
       | potentially adverse incentives:
       | 
       | 1. Publishing the exact formula for funding is great for
       | transparency, but then leads to an incentive to game the system
       | to capture funding. Doing things like breaking your project up
       | into many small packages, or reducing the number of maintainers
       | are not good for the ecosystem but may lead to more funding.
       | Also, there starts to be an incentive to juice download numbers.
       | 
       | 2. In general, rewarding "risk" with additional funding seems
       | like it creates an adverse incentive. This seems like a really
       | tricky problem, because lack of funding is a major source of
       | risk. It seems like there could be a pendulum effect here if
       | you're not careful. Is there a way to structure the funding so it
       | encourages long term "de-risking"?
        
         | 3abiton wrote:
         | But the issue is, whatever the criterias are, they will become
         | the main kpis opensource projects (at least the not-so-driven
         | ones) will target for growth. Goodhart's law.
        
           | Wilduck wrote:
           | I think Goodhart's law only applies if you have fixed,
           | published criteria for funding. That's why I mentioned
           | transparency explicitly. I wonder if you could avoid some of
           | the worst of Goodhart's law by saying something like "the
           | formula changes every year, and we will publish it only after
           | 5 years, but the goal is to reward value provided, and de-
           | risk the ecosystem". The idea being you're explicitly trying
           | to incentivize broadly valuable work rather than specific
           | metrics.
           | 
           | It's a bit like the SEO dance. Publishing the exact formula
           | makes it much easier to game SEO, so instead search engines
           | say stuff like "we're trying to gauge the overall quality of
           | the site, we use metrics like [...] but not exclusively,
           | focus on making good, responsive, accessible content above
           | all else". Obviously it doesn't work perfectly and the more
           | money there is, the more incentive to game the system, but it
           | seems better than the alternative of publishing the exact
           | ranking algorithm.
        
             | leoc wrote:
             | I think that might be the best strategy: a charity playing
             | Google and being transparent about what money it
             | distributes to whom, but being less transparent about the
             | exact mechanism it uses to calculate the disbursement, or
             | at least being ready to make arbitrary future changes at
             | its discretion to the mechanism to counter gaming (as well
             | as outright zapping clear offenders _ad hoc_ ). One nice
             | thing about this strategy is that it could generate a
             | virtuous circle: consolidate together a big enough pot of
             | money from early adopters and you could start getting some
             | good media coverage, which in turn might generate interest
             | and donations from "normie" sources which would never have
             | wanted to be in before then. Similarly and relatedly, IME
             | one of the excuses for low Open Source donations from big
             | US companies is "we have to monitor and audit where all
             | donated money goes, and that's too much overhead".
             | Centralise that work in a big, fairly well-trusted charity
             | to which multiple other organisations can donate and that
             | excuse is hopefully removed or partly removed. It has long
             | annoyed me that the Open Source Initiative never (AFAIK)
             | tried to take on this role, despite having been (at one
             | time, at least) the most obvious candidate for the role.
             | 
             | Of course, the big hazard here is "who watches the
             | watchmen?" But public scrutiny plus the fact that others
             | can jump in and try to take some of the same middleman role
             | might help to keep that risk partly under control.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > Publishing the exact formula for funding is great for
         | transparency, but then leads to an incentive to game the system
         | to capture funding.
         | 
         | I say think of it as an authorization protocol, and watch how
         | people break it in order to figure out how to fix it.
        
         | ants_everywhere wrote:
         | > There's something about the "Index Fund" approach that is
         | really appealing
         | 
         | This is an approach I'm actively working on, although I haven't
         | actively donated anywhere yet.
        
       | bajabaq wrote:
       | This is cool: good, reasonable methodology (I like the value x
       | risk idea).
       | 
       | Two requests: 1) could you easily add the projects to the CSV
       | file (maybe one column left of the user: "projectA;projectB;...")
       | 2) could you share the code (understanding that it's rough and
       | lots of hand-curation)
       | 
       | I've long given to EFF, FSF, and other projects sporadically, but
       | this method seems excellent and expandable and customizable,
       | maybe something like: 1) identify the packages on your machine
       | (or used by your team) 2) score them 3 donate based on score
        
         | dmacedo wrote:
         | I believe this is a better approach for scale.
         | 
         | Make it a local or company-wide identification of FOSS
         | packages, and a way for those individuals, teams, and
         | businesses to score them by importance or criticality (or needs
         | of the FOSS project if they are aware).
        
         | kvinogradov wrote:
         | Thanks!
         | 
         | 1) Yes. My plan is to continue iterating on this approach and
         | publish more data later, including projects and some other
         | inputs (PyPI, etc.)
         | 
         | 2) Maybe. I prefer the full transparency and have planned to
         | publish the code too, but some comments suggest that it might
         | not be ideal. Need to think more about this.
        
       | tlocke wrote:
       | I was 18th on the list, thanks for the donation!
       | 
       | There's also the approach to funding that looks at things from
       | another angle, and says we should have a basic income, or
       | negative income tax, for everyone.
        
         | freen wrote:
         | If a sufficiently large number of participants, with sufficient
         | resources participate, then any open source project with
         | sufficient utilization and value will receive funding.
         | 
         | Lots of "sufficients" in there, of course.
        
       | iandanforth wrote:
       | I love the idea! Anyone here from MS/Github who could integrate
       | this into Github sponsors? That way you could "Donate to Open
       | Source" and see the allocation distribution without having to do
       | all this work.
        
       | bradley13 wrote:
       | As soon as money is in play, greedy people will start gaming the
       | system. The anonymous guy in Nebraska won't have a chance, even
       | if he is interested.
       | 
       | tl;dr: well intentioned, but it isn't gonna work.
        
         | kassner wrote:
         | Specially when GitHub gatekeeps users from accepting
         | sponsorships, even if you have stuff published for over a
         | decade.
        
       | leoc wrote:
       | It's a great idea; I have some similar thoughts. The looming
       | problem, though, is that Goodheart's Law is likely to strike if
       | this ever gets scaled up significantly.
        
         | cbeach wrote:
         | In case anyone else was wondering:
         | 
         | Goodhart's law is an adage often stated as, "When a measure
         | becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure"
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law
        
           | leoc wrote:
           | In concrete terms, what you would or will see, if enough
           | money starts going down this track, is open-source
           | contributors changing their behaviour as they seek to make
           | projects "donation-optimised" and to maximise their personal
           | share of donations, and likely also "donation-bait" projects
           | which exist simply to game the system. But even though all
           | this could get quite bad, it's still quite likely to be less
           | bad than the status quo. EDIT: If you're thinking of making
           | such a contribution yourself I don't think the downsides
           | should deter you yet, at least unless you're lucky enough to
           | have control of a truly large bag.
        
             | TiredGuy wrote:
             | On that note, the article states that it donates more to
             | higher risk projects, and risk increases by OpenSSF score.
             | One question I had about the article is does that mean that
             | projects with more security vulns get a higher donation? If
             | so, then that might become a perverse incentive to leave
             | security gaps in your code.
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | I think you can solve that by funding the dependencies you rely
         | on and have them fund their dependencies and so on...
         | 
         | A related project I recently found out about is
         | https://www.drips.network/ The more I think about it, the more
         | I like it.
         | 
         | In fact, TFA says
         | 
         |  _> But how should one decide which users to sponsor and how
         | much to donate to each one? It requires data on their
         | importance, and I used PyPI to roughly estimate it for Python
         | packages._
         | 
         | It's better to have one of the slabs in the XKCD comic fund the
         | ones immediately below it than to have users look at the whole
         | thing from the outside and try to arbitrarily allocate
         | importance via some metric like PyPI downloads, GitHub stars
         | and whatnot
        
           | leoc wrote:
           | It's a good start, but it's vulnerable to sticky fingers,
           | patronage relationships and so on if the money becomes
           | serious. For example, what if a project writes internal code
           | instead of having a dependency on someone else's library? Do
           | they get to keep the money which would have gone to an
           | external contributor, creating an incentive to pull
           | everything in-house? Or do they still have to push the same
           | amount of money upstream? That creates the opposite
           | incentive, a bag of free money which can be directed to
           | third-party libraries which purely by coincidence happen to
           | be staffed by members of the downstream project and/or their
           | pals.
           | 
           | But as I said elsewhere, I'm not using this to dismiss the
           | idea or assert that it can't improve things overall. The
           | status quo seems to be pretty bad, so an alternative
           | certainly doesn't have to be flawless to be better overall.
        
         | swatcoder wrote:
         | Worse (and very unfortunately), any kind of unmonitored/low-
         | attention payment scheme that starts funneling meaningful money
         | to countless small libraries turns those libraries into revenue
         | streams whose ownership can be valued and sold.
         | 
         | And when that happens, you'll quickly start to see professional
         | schemers and hustlers coming in to buy them, the most
         | aggressive of whom will start surreptitiously converting some
         | of those projects into things like data siphons or bot shells,
         | may relicense and restructure them for further monetization or
         | to set up targeted lawsuits, etc
         | 
         | It creates a whole new and dangerous incentive scheme, not
         | unlike the one that's already corrupted the browser extension
         | ecosystem.
         | 
         | To avoid that from happening, people need to be actually paying
         | attention to what they're paying for, when they're paying for
         | it, so that they can make sure they're still getting what they
         | expect. Automated/algorithmic schemes like this specifically
         | avoid that.
         | 
         | They're a great idea in theory, meant to address a real issue
         | in what reward open source developers might see from popular
         | work, but as you suggest, it opens a very wide and inviting
         | door for trouble at scale.
        
           | leoc wrote:
           | I generally agree, though some of those specific risks
           | already exist and some (like license changes) are if anything
           | probably less likely if they mean giving up significant
           | donation money.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | My concern is that the value a project brings isn't always
       | objectively measurable. You can try to approximate it, sure,
       | using # of downloads and whatever else, but then those metrics
       | can also be easily gamed if the incentives are large enough. For
       | example if you applied this same logic to the npm ecosystem then
       | the creator of is-odd would retire a billionaire.
       | 
       | Regardless, donating something is always better than donating
       | nothing, so kudos.
        
         | kvinogradov wrote:
         | Thanks. There is no ideal set of metrics for value, but some
         | measurable ones correlate with it. The more reasonable inputs
         | are accounted for, the harder it is to game the system.
         | 
         | Regarding is-odd, it would unlikely receive a high score even
         | with the current primitive version of my algorithm, as it
         | already includes the package size among the "risk" set.
        
       | IAmLiterallyAB wrote:
       | One thing I want to try is looking at all the packages on a
       | minimum install of a Linux distro. How many of those are just a
       | dude?
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | Title is cut off; it is missing "... via GitHub Sponsors and PyPI
       | data ". My project, for instance, does not use GitHub, nor is it
       | a Python library or even Python-only.
       | 
       | I suspect that a better measurement might be based on what
       | software people actually have installed, perhaps using the Debian
       | Popcon data.
        
       | mrtksn wrote:
       | Ha, maybe there should be a tool that calculates your "bill"
       | based on the OS stuff you are using and help you make a single
       | payment that distributes it to the rightful owners. That bill
       | thingy can be calculated as how much you actually used this stuff
       | and how much donation they currently receive and then you pick
       | how much you feel like paying thing month.
       | 
       | Distribution can favor projects that need funding to be
       | sustained. Maybe you are using niche library than only 20 other
       | people are using it but you are getting great value out of it,
       | then maybe it can be reasonable to be billed $100(or not a strict
       | sum but high coefficient to make your donation go mostly to this
       | particular library).
        
         | kvinogradov wrote:
         | There are some relevant tools for this, such as
         | https://thanks.dev. While it doesn't work as a usage-based
         | billing, at least it provides a way to fund all dependencies.
         | 
         | However, the issue is that most organizations relying on OSS
         | are not tech companies. They mainly have no clue about OSS
         | sustainability (e.g., airports and hospitals) and are unlikely
         | to ever fund their own software supply chains, unfortunately.
         | That's why there should be a data-driven index to address the
         | global OSS supply chain, not only any particular ones.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | I still think it's much more efficient to let your teams vote
         | for 8 or 10 libraries, once or twice a year, send N dollars for
         | every vote over <enough to make it worthwhile to track down
         | donation information and cut a check> and carry over remainders
         | from one vote to the next, so that everything below the cutoff
         | gets some love every couple of intervals.
         | 
         | A lot of people will vote for the obvious ones, a few people
         | will vote for the underdogs and it'll come out in the wash.
         | 
         | That also fights the common complaint here of people gaming the
         | system by splitting up their libraries too much. Sindre, for
         | instance, would get some money for p-limit, p-retry, and maybe
         | p-queue, but not much else for his astounding menagerie of
         | micro-libraries.
        
           | treve wrote:
           | One thing is a bit frustrating for me personally is that I
           | have a few packages that get tons of downloads yet very
           | little stars. This is because I solve a niche well. Im
           | usually deep in the dependency tree, rarely as a direct
           | dependency. I would definitely be ignored by this scheme.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | I don't know what the solution to that is. I think you'd
             | still get a few votes. I think it's unlikely for library
             | authors to pass some of their donations down to the
             | libraries they depend on.
             | 
             | Foundations should probably be doing some of this work.
             | Maybe government as well. National Science Foundation did
             | it for a bit, partly because of Al Gore, but that is also
             | how we ended up with the current model of everything being
             | free either until it isn't, or until you become the produce
             | (advertising, user tracking).
        
       | Wilsoniumite wrote:
       | I feel like there is a big risk here, which others have already
       | mentioned, but in fact this risk has already been realized w.r.t
       | npm packages.https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41178258
        
         | kvinogradov wrote:
         | While some mistakes are probably inevitable (like it happened
         | with Tea protocol), sourcing a wide range of metrics from
         | multiple sources, fixing bugs and building reasonable
         | guardrails can prevent them from repeating.
         | 
         | For instance, given that my algo-donating aims to support the
         | global OSS supply chain (not to distribute any crypto tokens
         | like Tea did), it could potentially even focus only only "old"
         | repos. They carry higher maintenance-related risks, but it will
         | take years to distort such target area for donations.
        
       | lorenzleutgeb wrote:
       | Comparing to index funds is neat. What Flattr.com offered was to
       | set a monthly budget and then not allocate according to an index
       | but according to your preferences (value per flatter = monthly
       | budget divided by number of flatters).
       | 
       | Flattr is no more. But I could see that work out for open source
       | projects: Allocate a fixed monetary amount per unit of time you
       | want to donate. Record "intent to donate" during that period.
       | This could be done via a browser extension or a CLI. At the end
       | of one period, distribute.
        
       | joshdavham wrote:
       | I think someone should also donate to the person who created that
       | open source meme.
        
         | kvinogradov wrote:
         | It does not seem that Randall Munroe (xkcd) accepts public
         | donations, but he recently released his own book, which can be
         | bought at https://xkcd.com/what-if. I've just ordered.
        
       | kibwen wrote:
       | _> Value increases with # total downloads and LTM downloads on
       | PyPI._
       | 
       | While I applaud the OP for the initiative, if this ever takes off
       | it will cause people to exploit the system in the following ways:
       | 
       | 1. Hammer the package registries with fake downloads, which will
       | increase the financial burden on the registries both in terms of
       | increased resource usage and in employing countermeasures to stop
       | bad actors.
       | 
       | 2. People spamming the repositories of popular packages with PRs
       | that just so happen to add a dependency on their own personal
       | package, so that they can pick up transitive downloads. This
       | increases the burden on package authors who will need to spend
       | time rejecting all of these.
       | 
       | So this approach carries the risk of possibly making things even
       | worse for OSS maintainers.
       | 
       | If a metric can be gamed, and there is a financial incentive to
       | game it, it will be gamed. I coin this the "this is why we can't
       | have nice things" law.
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | Exactly, and Goodhart's law drives the nails in the coffin.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
        
         | ddulaney wrote:
         | The mechanism is kinda like the Spotify fake songs case:
         | https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/north-carolina-musician...
         | 
         | In the same way, there was a fixed pot of money available split
         | up by popularity, so making thousands of songs and streaming
         | them as much as possible with bot accounts is profitable, even
         | though each bot account cost a few dollars per month.
         | 
         | Here, the bots you use to juice your numbers don't even need a
         | subscription fee!
        
           | reaperman wrote:
           | Which is why spotify should pay a percentage of MY
           | subscription fee to only the artists that I listen to. My
           | money shouldn't go to Taylor Swift if I don't listen to
           | Taylor Swift.
           | 
           | That would eliminate direct financial payment from botting.
           | But botting could still affect trending or "related"
           | recommendations for indirect financial boost.
        
             | suzumer wrote:
             | The issue there is that the listens from people who listen
             | to less music would be worth more than the listens from
             | people who listen to more music.
        
               | imtringued wrote:
               | That's not an issue. That's the entire point. You track
               | listens per account and if you're only listening to a
               | single niche musician, all your money (not someone
               | else's) goes to that musician.
               | 
               | The real mystery is why it should work any differently,
               | because the cross subsidy seemingly creates a perverse
               | profit incentive for bots to scalp off some of that cross
               | subsidy. The economics are broken. This is socialism for
               | the rich and popular.
        
               | knutzui wrote:
               | A fixed monthly subscription amount with unlimited usage
               | will always carry this deficiency. A solution that
               | addresses this would be usage-based pricing.
        
           | imtringued wrote:
           | I find that court case very off putting, since it was Spotify
           | that stole the royalties, because the same mechanic applies
           | to simply being popular. When will someone sue Taylor Swift
           | for stealing royalties?
           | 
           | Also, since they didn't change the economics, they have done
           | nothing to prevent this from happening again. Any economist
           | that sees that he can earn $12 from a $11 payment would keep
           | doing this until the risk adjusted return is equal to the
           | interest rate. Ironically this will remain profitable until
           | the cross subsidy is gone. I.e. there is an incentive to use
           | the bots to boost real musicians who lose out from not being
           | the recipient of the cross subsidy.
        
         | TuringTest wrote:
         | _> While I applaud the OP for the initiative, if this ever
         | takes off it will cause people to exploit the system in the
         | following ways_
         | 
         | It's true that the metrics used in this story could lead to
         | being exploited. But the value of the initiative is not in the
         | specific method used to donate, but in the idea of finding
         | worthy yet non-obvious projects to donate and in leading by
         | example.
         | 
         | If the initiative catches on, the community can find better,
         | harder-to-exploit methods to find deserving targets, as for
         | example it has happend with NGOs. This idea could create a
         | healthy ecosystem that supports FLOSS software, just like the
         | idea of a stock exchange supported the emergence of public
         | traded corporations in the XVIII and XIX centuries.
        
           | kiba wrote:
           | If everyone use their own idiosyncratic algorithm for
           | choosing OSS to donate to, it's going to be awfully hard to
           | exploit.
        
             | gleenn wrote:
             | There are probably only so many obvious metrics from which
             | to pick and you wouldn't have to game them all, just pick
             | the easiest ones and keep grinding. Fraudsters are usually
             | motivated and not that dumb.
        
           | kvinogradov wrote:
           | Exactly! The idea is to use available data for evaluating the
           | value and risk of OSS and then allocate donations accordingly
           | to the wide algo-based systemic index, not to a narrow set of
           | manually picked projects (usually large or popular ones).
           | 
           | The current algorithm is far from being perfect (it's an MVP)
           | and will never be, but with more measurable inputs and after
           | multiple iterations with the help of the community, it can
           | lead to an analogue of "S&P500" for OSS, that's worth using
           | for donating to reduce the risk of the global OSS supply
           | chain we all rely on.
           | 
           | As with publicly traded companies, having a decentralized set
           | of private donors with skin in the game helps a lot to
           | efficiently evolve the approach and make it harder to exploit
           | in the future. And on the contrary, I would not trust an
           | algorithm created and maintained by some state-owned or
           | simply very large institution.
        
             | lacker wrote:
             | Even an index fund has some human-curated criteria for what
             | to include, though, right? The S&P 500 isn't open to just
             | anyone. So it seems totally legitimate to have it be not
             | completely algorithmic.
             | 
             | If there were an "Open 500" that was trying to be like the
             | open equivalent to the S&P 500, I would happily donate to
             | it. Right now I do GitHub sponsors but it feels kind of
             | random.
             | 
             | You just don't want to include projects like React or
             | TypeScript that are operated by a for-profit company - they
             | don't need our donations. You want it to be, this money is
             | actually going to an organization that will invest it in
             | software quality.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Rather than trying to donate to the most popular packages,
         | people could try to donate to the packages they use, and then
         | their dependencies (it would be nicer, though, if repos had a
         | way for packages to list their dependencies and automatically
         | propagate donations they received down--which would be a usable
         | by the top level packages but, eh, you have to trust people at
         | some point).
        
         | Pooge wrote:
         | Makes me think of the "cobra effect", like the Great Hanoi Rat
         | Massacre.[1]
         | 
         | Set arbitrary metrics like download count -> bad actors make
         | bots to download their package -> they profit while the
         | registry suffers from very heavy load.
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hanoi_Rat_Massacre
        
         | sesm wrote:
         | 2 is already happening, I have seen this multiple times.
        
         | uncomplexity_ wrote:
         | sweet sweet human nature.
        
       | igor47 wrote:
       | Does anyone know of a non profit that routes money directly to
       | open source projects? I'm wondering what's the best way to
       | support open source via 501c3 dollars
        
       | jvanderbot wrote:
       | I think someone should make an ETF that donates 1-2% of profits
       | to the open source packages that the companies use. Tie profit
       | directly to payback to the community.
       | 
       | Undisclosed use would be a bad idea - your package could be
       | receiving free funding!
        
       | jillyboel wrote:
       | Must be nice to have $5k to burn. Probably means you have too
       | much money.
        
         | Nimishg14 wrote:
         | The guy is a GP at a VC so I think this spend goes from their
         | marketing budget.
        
           | kvinogradov wrote:
           | This spending comes from my personal pocket and does not even
           | create any tax relief. I just think that Open Source is
           | important and want to efficiently support it.
        
       | yu3zhou4 wrote:
       | I tried to fix software funding - I think people can sell
       | licenses to their software, we can introduce new licenses that
       | allow free usage for individuals and nonprofits and charge the
       | companies. I am the worst marketer/seller ever and failed with
       | getting the publicity. I still think that's a worthwhile idea and
       | have all the source code for this platform
        
         | bruce511 wrote:
         | >> we can introduce new licenses that allow free usage for
         | individuals and nonprofits and charge the companies
         | 
         | You definitely can use such a license for your project. That's
         | trivial to do.
         | 
         | However, of course, that would not be an OSS compatible
         | license.
         | 
         | I'm as big a fan of OSS as the next guy. I'm also a fan of
         | eating. I sell my work (as source code) with a proprietary
         | license. That's how I "solved" the problem, at least for me.
         | 
         | Ideologically I'd love for it to be open source. But there's no
         | sustainable way of capturing that value. So rather than not-do-
         | it I chose to charge for it instead. (Shrug).
        
       | hartator wrote:
       | Great initiative!
       | 
       | Yeah, doing open source is very unthankful even outside of that
       | money consideration. I have a 5k+ star GitHub project for like 9
       | years, 200-300 bug requests via GitHub/personal email, and maybe
       | I got maybe 1 genuine thanks email without a request.
        
       | kvinogradov wrote:
       | Hey HN community, thanks a lot for your great feedback and
       | actionable critique!
       | 
       | It was a simple MVP for personal OSS donations, and I have many
       | considerations on how to evolve it and especially to prevent it
       | from becoming a victim of Goodhart's Law at scale. Some of them:
       | 
       | 1) Value and Risk scores shall include more metrics:
       | dependencies, known funding, time since the last dev activity,
       | active contributors, etc. A wider set of connected but relatively
       | independent metrics is harder to fake. Also, it will help to
       | exclude edge cases -- for instance, I auto-donated to Pydantic
       | (it's a great OSS), but such support is unlikely needed as they
       | have raised $12.5M Series A from Sequoia this year.
       | 
       | 2) Algorithmic does not mean automatic. While I see a strict,
       | measurable, and ideally fully transparent methodology crucial for
       | donating, it does not mean that all inputs shall be automatically
       | generated. For instance, in the stock ETF world, one can
       | generally rely on such metrics as "annual financials" for trading
       | because they are annually audited (although it does not prevent
       | fraud in 100% of cases). In the OSS world, data from trusted
       | ecosystem actors can also be part of the equation.
       | 
       | 3) Many guardrails are possible: limited budget per project,
       | manual checks of top repos with the most anomalous changes in
       | metrics. Also, if we target the sustainable maintenance of OSS
       | the world relies on (I do!), then new projects (1-2 years) will
       | unlikely get high scores - that adds another protection layer.
       | 
       | Given the interest in this topic, I am going to continue
       | developing this algorithm further and expand it to other
       | ecosystems (e.g. JS/TS and Rust). Your feedback here is very
       | valuable to me, and those who would like to help make the algo
       | better or donate through it are invited to the newly created
       | gist:
       | 
       | https://gist.github.com/vinogradovkonst/27921217d25390f1bf5e...
        
         | mudkipdev wrote:
         | Great idea, I also think it'd be interesting to systematically
         | donate to the projects with the lowest bus factor (or as that
         | one XKCD describes it: "the project that a random person in
         | Nebraska has been maintaining since 2005")
        
           | kvinogradov wrote:
           | Yes, that would be a very useful risk metric! Assuming access
           | only to public APIs (GitHub, package managers, etc.), how
           | would you define the bus factor in terms of data? I am
           | thinking about # unique contributors over the last X years.
           | 
           | It's funny that the experiment uncovered exactly such a case:
           | a person from Nebraska got my donation as the first income
           | from his open source contributions over the last 18 years and
           | shared this on Linkedin:
           | 
           | https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7269812.
           | ..
        
       | theendisney wrote:
       | Building something for fun with others seems underrated outside
       | software. I sometimes look with jelousy at pictures of amish barn
       | raising. Who benefits is rather different tho.
        
       | gauss233 wrote:
       | Open-source maintainers are the base that holds the entire
       | industry! It is such a nice noble and generous act, I honestly
       | wouldn't dedicate my skills and time to work in something that is
       | not going to help me to pay the bills. (pretty selfish, I know
       | xD). it's great to have you guys around!
        
       | NelsonMinar wrote:
       | This reminds me of when Redhat went public in the late 90s and
       | did a generous thing with the friends and family round for the
       | IPO. They included every open source contributor they could find
       | in the Redhat sources. Including me, a grad student at the time.
       | I made a few thousand dollars flipping the stock which probably
       | doubled my salary for the year. (My contribution was an early
       | HTML mode for emacs.) It was a really nice gesture.
       | 
       | Reddit did something similar last year in their IPO. I'd love to
       | read an article on how people benefitted from it.
        
       | kinderjaje wrote:
       | I wanted to see if chatGPT will be able to understand the meaning
       | of this comic, and i think it did.
       | 
       | *Gpt message:*
       | 
       | This comic humorously highlights a critical issue in the tech
       | world: the dependency of massive modern digital infrastructure on
       | small, often overlooked, and underfunded components maintained by
       | individual contributors. The large stack in the illustration
       | represents the complex and sprawling "modern digital
       | infrastructure," while the tiny piece at the bottom, maintained
       | by a "random person in Nebraska," symbolizes open-source software
       | or obscure tools that are crucial for the functioning of this
       | entire system.
       | 
       | The key message is that large systems often rely on foundational
       | work done by unsung heroes who may not receive the recognition,
       | support, or resources they deserve, despite the critical nature
       | of their contributions. This comic resonates particularly with
       | the tech community, where dependencies on small open-source
       | projects are common.
        
       | kinderjaje wrote:
       | By the way, a lot of money goes to open-source projects via
       | donations in exchange for an SEO backlink. A lot of stuff going
       | down there.
        
       | LtWorf wrote:
       | Oh what a coincidence. I wrote pypular
       | (https://codeberg.org/ltworf/pypular) to artificially increase
       | download counts on PyPI (talked about it at a MiniDebConf).
       | 
       | I was claiming that there are important incentives to play this
       | sort of games.
       | 
       | Seems OP proved me right!
        
       | xk3 wrote:
       | Wow! I was surprised to see myself on the list. Sure enough, I
       | see a donation and it will take 90 days to pay out the first
       | time.
       | 
       | Interesting project
        
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