[HN Gopher] Fructose in diet enhances tumor growth: research
___________________________________________________________________
Fructose in diet enhances tumor growth: research
Author : gmays
Score : 164 points
Date : 2024-12-06 19:46 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (source.washu.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (source.washu.edu)
| lambdaba wrote:
| Steve Jobs is a prime example, he tried to treat his pancreatic
| cancer with fruit.
|
| Also see Thomas Seyfried's work on ketogenic diets for cancer
| https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/bcnews/science-tech-and-health/bio...
| methyl wrote:
| Pancreatic cancer doesn't have good prognosis in the first
| place, no matter what you eat or don't eat.
| twostorytower wrote:
| But his was actually one of the most treatable forms and he
| could have potentially had many many years added to his life
| had he initially listened to his doctors.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Yes I was downvoted last time I posted this, but: Don't try
| to be your own lawyer, and don't try to be your own doctor.
| mchannon wrote:
| This is the tail wagging the dog.
|
| Jobs' fruitarianism meant he didn't eat eggs, meat, dairy, or
| other sources of selenium. Fruit doesn't contain selenium.
| One of Selenium deficiency's side effects, well established
| in the literature: pancreatic cancer.
| throw646577 wrote:
| He's not a prime example of anything to do with fruit making
| things worse. His chosen therapy just as likely had no
| worsening impact on his cancer; the problem was it had no
| positive impact _either_ and he put off surgery.
|
| He had a rare form of pancreatic cancer that grows from the tip
| of the pancreas and can _sometimes_ be snipped out without
| consequence early enough that it doesn 't spread.
|
| He presumably freaked out about it all nevertheless (because
| it's terrifying), avoided surgery for too long and ended up
| having a Whipple procedure, which is fucking brutal.
|
| But there's still a pretty good chance he would have had early
| surgery and still ended up needing a Whipple procedure and
| still have passed away on roughly the same timescale. Because
| pancreatic cancer is a stealthy thing, and the Whipple
| procedure comes with its own frightening future.
|
| It's really sad he freaked out, it's really sad he didn't
| listen. But it's not that unusual. He's far from unique in
| making irrational decisions in the face of terrifying
| diagnoses. Should it have been a slam dunk decision? Yeah. Of
| course. But there we are.
| lambdaba wrote:
| He was following "fruitarianism" on and off even before his
| diagnosis, I think it's reasonable to suspect it had
| something to do with his cancer, but I wasn't aware of those
| details, so thanks for providing them.
| throw646577 wrote:
| And yet:
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16172215/
|
| I mean... in terms of our scientific understanding at this
| point, sporadic pancreatic cancer just comes from nowhere.
| We don't know why. In the case of the parent I lost to it,
| it _could_ have been triggered by a response to
| inflammation from previous surgery. It seems plausible. But
| nobody knows.
|
| I just think people snarking or factoiding about Steve
| Jobs' panicked response to an awful disease comes across as
| projection of other judgements more than anything else. He
| was a complicated, self-reliant person who made a bad
| decision when he was scared. And it _probably_ (but by no
| means certainly) cost him a few years of health. And now he
| is gone. And it 's still sad for the people who lost him
| and for the wider world.
| lambdaba wrote:
| I'm sorry about your parent.
|
| I didn't mean to dunk on Steve Jobs, but I'm sure even he
| would agree he had an eccentric and extremist personality
| and the bit about fruitarianism seems very relevant esp
| with happenings like [Ashton Kutcher being hospitalized
| when he tried to mimick
| it](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/jan/28/ashton-
| kutcher-...)
|
| relevant quote:
|
| > "First of all, the fruitarian diet can lead to, like,
| severe issues," Kutcher told USA Today. "I went to the
| hospital like two days before we started shooting the
| movie. I was like doubled over in pain. My pancreas
| levels were completely out of whack. It was really
| terrifying ... considering everything."
| znpy wrote:
| steve jobs was known to be an asshole. i wonder how much that
| had an impact on dealing with the condition.
|
| on the other hand, I wonder what kind of steve jobs would the
| world have had, had he survived.
|
| would he have pushed cancer research further, somehow? maybe
| by getting involved and providing funding and technology,
| maybe novel technology, for cancer research? or would he have
| gone full-cynical and focused on something else entirely?
|
| we'll never know, for sure.
| andai wrote:
| Another comment mentioned that the mechanism by which fructose
| promotes tumor growth is that it increases circulating lipids.
| But I'm wondering, doesn't keto (which seems to fight cancer)
| also do that?
| throw646577 wrote:
| Not much evidence that keto fights cancer any better than any
| other exclusion diet; it might even be worse than meat
| exclusion diets.
| lambdaba wrote:
| "Not much evidence"? That is so far from the truth.
| outworlder wrote:
| > Steve Jobs is a prime example, he tried to treat his
| pancreatic cancer with fruit.
|
| That is true - and probably didn't help. But his case is a poor
| example since he delayed treatment for months.
|
| EDIT: Also, actual fruits are probably not an issue. It's
| difficult to eat too much fruit, unless in juice form... which
| he did.
| lm28469 wrote:
| > Steve Jobs is a prime example, he tried to treat his
| pancreatic cancer with fruit.
|
| Pancreatic cancer will fuck you up pretty much no matter what
| you do. I think it literally is the cancer with the smallest
| survival rate
| WorkerBee28474 wrote:
| > "We were surprised that fructose was barely metabolized in the
| tumor types we tested... We quickly learned that the tumor cells
| alone don't tell the whole story... one way in which high levels
| of fructose consumption promote tumor growth is by increasing the
| availability of circulating lipids in the blood. These lipids are
| building blocks for the cell membrane, and cancer cells need them
| to grow... Over the past few years, it's become clear that many
| cancer cells prefer to take up lipids rather than make them
|
| A bit of a red herring, but still interesting.
| jcims wrote:
| Went though a cancer journey with a loved one a few years ago. I
| was quite surprised at the complete lack of specialized guidance
| on nutrition. It was basically 'eat healthy', which isn't bad
| advice but it seems like there are probably optimizations to be
| had there.
|
| (Of course there's no end of it on the Internets, but as part of
| heathcare it was absent)
| bell-cot wrote:
| Cynical Reaction: There are no patent royalties, fat profits,
| nor bragging rights to be found in giving nutritional advice.
| WithinReason wrote:
| Or in researching nutrition
| stevenwoo wrote:
| The first half of her book talks about nutrition and health
| but the second half talks about her company that offers
| services to give people personal guidance on nutrition and
| monitoring their health, so there are some attempts to do
| this. https://www.caseymeans.com/goodenergy
| stvltvs wrote:
| We tend to emphasize diet a lot, I think because it's something
| we can control, but it might not help as much as we hope.
|
| Eating a healthy, plant-forward diet while minimizing alcohol
| and red meat might give us most of the benefit we can squeeze
| out of diet for cancer risk reduction.
| lambdaba wrote:
| > minimizing red meat
|
| could you provide the evidence that convinced you that red
| meat is detrimental to health?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41945838
|
| https://newatlas.com/medical/red-meat-iron-colorectal-
| cancer...
|
| https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/risk-
| re...
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27597529/
| liveoneggs wrote:
| I shared this story before on here but my aunt found out she
| had lung cancer when her t2 diabetes suddenly cured itself.
| cipheredStones wrote:
| Is there a known mechanism by which that happens? Or was it
| just a weird idiosyncrasy of her body and her diseases?
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| There are people who think eating bread is healthy. "Eat
| health," and "eat cleaner" are two phrases that are doing
| cultural damage.
|
| Even the more educated members of family believe this.
| Nasrudith wrote:
| Healthy is always relative. I mean eating bread is healthy
| compared to say, eating deep-fried cake.
| alkyon wrote:
| With low fructose content (less then carrots per 100g), it's
| not a stupid choice. Naturally, if you don't binge on it,
| otherwise 2-3 slices daily won't kill you. I mean wholegrain,
| sourdough bread, to be precise.
| lm28469 wrote:
| They also will gladly prescribe you statins for life without
| mentioning that losing your excess 30kg and walking every now
| and then would likely greatly improve your cholesterol issues
| (or even solve them) and improve your general health. You can
| apply this to pretty much any modern wide spread disease.
|
| I think doctors don't even bother because they assume people
| already do as much as they're willing to do, the problem is
| that the interests of capitalism are diametrically opposed to
| your well being so most people start with quite a disadvantage,
| just look at supermarkets: the alcohol, candies, coke, cakes
| aisles are all bigger than the healthy food aisle, together
| they're like 80% of the building
| cipheredStones wrote:
| "Doctors won't mention that losing weight and exercising more
| will make you healthier" is quite a take.
|
| I've heard exactly the opposite from any number of people:
| that if you're overweight at all, many doctors will tell
| "lose weight and exercise" and then usher you out the door,
| rather than pay attention to the specifics of your medical
| problems - sometimes missing serious issues as a result.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| When they have to turn patients over at the rate of 10 per
| hour due to the policy of the private equity group that
| owns their practice, they will be inclined to offer blanket
| advice that, while actually good and applicable for 80% of
| people, will tend to miss the edge cases.
| outworlder wrote:
| > "one way in which high levels of fructose consumption promote
| tumor growth is by increasing the availability of circulating
| lipids in the blood. "
|
| Glad to see more research on this. Until recently, people trying
| to sound the alarm with regards to high fructose consumption
| (mainly high fructose corn syrup) have been dismissed.
|
| Excess fructose consumption increases tryglicerides, uric acid.
| Just uric acid alone causes a lot of issues, from heart disease
| to erectile dysfunction(inhibits NOX), even before gout starts.
| The range that's considered 'normal' has changed over time, but I
| feel it's too high.
|
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7352635/
|
| Note that fruits are unlikely to be an issue (except perhaps as
| fruit juice). Most people don't eat enough of them and they have
| plenty of nutrients that are beneficial.
|
| EDIT:
|
| > "Interestingly, the cancer cells themselves were unable to use
| fructose readily as a nutrient because they do not express the
| right biochemical machinery," Patti said. "Liver cells do. This
| allows them to convert fructose into LPCs, which they can secrete
| to feed tumors."
|
| Forgot about this. Non alcoholic fatty liver disease has been on
| the rise for a while now, and it's mostly the high fructose corn
| syrup again.
| meiraleal wrote:
| > Glad to see more research on this
|
| You are glad to argue for exactly the opposite of what the
| research found?
|
| Fructose is metabolized to lipids in the liver and that counts
| fruit juice, too. And the whole fruit.
| sneak wrote:
| FYI, high fructose corn syrup has only slightly more fructose
| (a single digit percentage) than normal sugar, which also has a
| fuckton of fructose in it.
|
| Corn syrup is a red herring.
| nayuki wrote:
| Correct. Sucrose (table sugar) is exactly 50% fructose, 50%
| glucose. The most common blend of HFCS is 55% fructose, 45%
| glucose - which is barely different.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup
| tasty_freeze wrote:
| That link has a bit of nuance. Some HFCS has _lower_
| fructose content:
|
| "HFCS 42" and "HFCS 55" refer to dry weight fructose
| compositions of 42% and 55% respectively, the rest being
| glucose. HFCS 42 is mainly used for processed foods and
| breakfast cereals, whereas HFCS 55 is used mostly for
| production of soft drinks.
| sithadmin wrote:
| Yup. ~5% more fructose than table sugar in its most common
| formulations, actually lower content than table sugar in some
| formulations (e.g. HFCS-42). The 'high fructose' moniker is
| derived from a reference to 'pure' corn syrup which is nearly
| 100% glucose, not a reference to table sugar as commonly
| assumed.
| tashoecraft wrote:
| I've heard the issue with high fructose corn syrup is that
| the levels of sugar in it does not correspond to its
| sweetness level. Corn syrup on its own is not very sweet, so
| to make it taste sweet you have to add much higher levels
| than if you had used other types of sweetener.
| cwillu wrote:
| Not sure how to square that with the chemical composition
| of hfcs.
| 01100011 wrote:
| Right. The main issue with HFCS is that it's really cheap so
| it gets added to a lot of things that wouldn't normally
| contain sugar or it is added in greater amounts than other
| sugars.
| jandrewrogers wrote:
| > mainly high fructose corn syrup
|
| It should be pointed out that contrary to what many people
| assume, "high-fructose" does mean that it has more fructose
| than sugar. Sugar is 50% fructose, and many widely used HFCS
| formulations contain _less_ fructose than sugar (e.g. the 42%
| fructose formulation used in most processed food). Even the
| formulation used in soft drinks is only 55% fructose,
| marginally more than sugar.
|
| If you replace HFCS with sugar in your diet it is basically a
| no-op in terms of being healthy and in many cases will increase
| your fructose intake.
| gus_massa wrote:
| In table sugar each fructose is conected to a,glucose in a
| single molecule (so 50% and 50%).
|
| In high fructose corn syrup they are disconected.
|
| This cange a lot of things like how fast they get to the
| blood and how fast cells can use them.
|
| I'm skeptical of a lot of good/bad reported health effects,
| but it's not obviously a nop.
| XorNot wrote:
| Fructose _can 't_ be used by cells directly - it does not
| effect blood sugar levels, because it has to be processed
| by the liver into glucose first.[1]
|
| The potential issues with fructose are related to the
| matabolic processes which convert it into glucose, which is
| what your cells actually use.
|
| So eating say, straight fructose in fact won't spike your
| blood sugar since it has a much more convoluted metabolic
| path to consumption. Something like HFCS is more likely to
| be a problem because the _glucose_ content is not in the
| dissacharide form of sucrose and _can_ be directly
| absorbed.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose
| chiph wrote:
| I was recently diagnosed with fatty liver disease. The liver-
| related numbers in my blood work were slightly elevated. An
| abdominal ultrasound confirmed it.
|
| Liver problems have historically been caused by excessive
| alcohol consumption (leads to cirrhosis, etc.) But I'm a
| teetotaler. The other version of fatty liver disease - the non-
| alcoholic kind - can be caused by excessive fructose
| consumption. Since I have been drinking diet sodas for years,
| that likely isn't it either (Diet Dr Pepper uses Aspartame as a
| sweetener).
|
| But there are hints that artificial sweeteners trick the body
| into thinking they're getting the real thing and it will store
| those calories as fat. So I have started a fat-loss program
| where the first thing to go has been soda. And I'm down 15
| pounds so far.
|
| Many thanks to the "LoseIt" app developers for making it easy
| to track my calories. And please get your numbers checked at
| your next doctor visit.
| 01100011 wrote:
| Fatty liver here as well. Not a big consumer of sugar or
| alcohol though so I suspect something else is the cause. My
| liver doc ordered a couple dozen obscure blood tests to see
| if we can find the cause. I take a lot of supplements and
| vitamins, but the doc didn't see anything that should have
| caused it. My parents and siblings, despite being more obese
| and consuming more sugar, also do not have it.
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| Is fatty liver disease also common in teetotalers / non-
| fructose drinkers of average weight?
| Gibbon1 wrote:
| Thing I read that's a bit fascinating and possibly important
| is your digestive system has taste buds and it's own nervous
| system. I wouldn't be gobsmacked if it responded to
| artificial sweeteners. And that causes issues.
|
| Other thing I read is fructose is processed by the liver via
| some of the same paths that alcohol does. Would surprising if
| they didn't share some of the same negative health outcomes.
| heisenbit wrote:
| Fructose is primarily processed in the liver and shares some
| processes with alcohol processing with toxic byproducts.
| Fructose processing yield triglycerides contributing to the
| less ideal fat in blood. When I cut my fructose consumption
| down for a while to less than 10g/day my triglycerides in my
| blood dropped considerably - my GP did not believe it was my
| diet. It is shocking how little some doctors know about
| fructose influence on the body despite the considerable amount
| is is consumed.
| fallinditch wrote:
| My understanding is that naturally occurring fructose found in
| whole fruits is accompanied by fiber, vitamins, and minerals,
| which help mitigate any negative effects of fructose when
| consumed as part of a balanced diet.
|
| However, it sounds like we should maybe be avoiding excessive
| amounts of certain fruit. See: A Definitive Guide to Fructose
| Content in Fruit [1]
|
| There was a recent episode from Diary of a CEO with a cancer
| expert. He seems to have some really sound advice. One particular
| take away for me was his finding that when the body enters a
| ketogenic state due to fasting the body produces defences that
| eat up cancer cells [2]
|
| [1] https://iquitsugar.com/blogs/articles/a-definitive-guide-
| to-...
|
| [2] https://youtu.be/VaVC3PAWqLk?feature=shared
| ChumpGPT wrote:
| Fruit has changed dramatically over the last Century. I imagine
| there was a time when it was much smaller, less sweet, and only
| available seasonally. In this new world, we have 24/7/365
| access to as much and whatever we want.
|
| There are Cherries along with every type of fruit you could
| want at Costco today and it's December.
| Noumenon72 wrote:
| Cherries out of season are wrinkly and weird tasting, unless
| Costco has solved that. Cherries and pomegranates are my two
| most "seasonal" fruits, in contrast to the always-available
| ones. I feel like mangoes and cantaloupes have seasons too, I
| just don't know how to detect them since they keep selling
| them even when they're not good.
| Nasrudith wrote:
| Except the fruit in the past was often available out of
| season but as pickling or preserves, via either excesses of
| salt or sugar. For several centuries. Let alone the parts of
| the world that don't really have four seasons, instead having
| only two, wet and dry seasons. The point being I'm not sure
| how much relatively recent norms will actually be able to
| tell us about health.
| lambdaba wrote:
| I doubt modern fruit, optimized for sweetness, has a very
| favorable vitamin-mineral/fructose ratio.
| url00 wrote:
| Not sure why you are being downvoted, this is a good point to
| bring up.
| Vitamin_Sushi wrote:
| I didn't downvote, but I can imagine that most people
| weren't aware of that claim. I'm skeptical of it as well
| since I'm not aware of any research that shows fructose in
| fruit increasing over time.
| swatcoder wrote:
| Commercial incentives are to engineer varietals for
| contemporary aesthetics (sweet, unbitter, colorful,
| unblemished, large) and crop turnover (rapid growth,
| tolerance for depleted soil), nutrition has been _way_
| down on the priority list for nearly a century now.
|
| https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-
| depletion-an...
|
| If you don't believe food is sweeter and less nutritious,
| you're firing a shot at many-billion-dollar industries
| that have been earnestly been trying to optimize the
| above for all that time.
|
| It's not a pleasant thing to believe, but its hard to
| refute.
|
| IIRC, You should be able to do your own deep dives here:
|
| https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/food-
| search?type=SR%20Legacy&query=
| sidibe wrote:
| If you're older I think some of this is obvious. Biggest
| example for me is grapefruit, they used to be barely
| sweet, when I was a kid they were mostly bitter and we
| used to add sugar to them, now they're always extremely
| sweet.
| lambdaba wrote:
| same here! Thanks for bringing up memories of sugar
| grapefruit. My parents' generation used to sugar their
| strawberries...
| MrDresden wrote:
| This may differ based on location, as my grapefruit (non
| organic normal supermarket bought) are still quite
| bitter. I'm located in Europe so these might be Spanish
| grapefruit, though not sure.
| l5870uoo9y wrote:
| Try buying conventional fruit and an organic one and
| taste the different, e.g. grape fruit.
| XorNot wrote:
| Because it's not a factual statement. It's a "truthy"
| sounding statement, but the person making it didn't
| actually go and look it up, which they could've done in
| seconds on the device they're currently using.
|
| It's practically the definition of FUD (fear, uncertainty,
| doubt). Based on no evidence "I think there's a danger
| because it's feels like there's a danger!"
| 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
| Is there a lower prevalence of cancer in cultures that fast?
| wigster wrote:
| or in Inuit people who i imagine don't get much fresh fruit
| except a few berries?
| lambdaba wrote:
| everywhere, cancer & chronic disease rates go up as diets
| get westernized
| lm28469 wrote:
| Yep, that's because most cancers are lifestyle related,
| remove alcohol, tobacco and bad diets/obesity and you
| remove 75% of cancers.
|
| https://www.oatext.com/which-environment-makes-cancer.php
| lambdaba wrote:
| Obviously yes, so is most chronic disease, but bring up
| people being healed by lifestyle & diet intervention and
| prepare for relentless attacks from both doctors and
| laypeople.
| cortic wrote:
| Isn't that just selection bias, as diets get westernized
| so does medical care and so we detect more diseases..
| lambdaba wrote:
| this is even counter to mainstream medical opinion
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| Life expectancy also goes up as lives get westernized, so
| people live long enough to become adults and die from
| cancer, rather than Malaria, diarrhea, etc
| lm28469 wrote:
| > cultures that fast?
|
| Are there any culture that fast in a way that would matter
| here ? Most of fasting traditions are mostly performative.
| The average joe probably fasted more by default a few
| thousand years ago than most people do now
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I don't know about that, but there does appear to be a
| tradeoff between nutrition and fertility. When you eat less,
| you're less fertile. When you're less fertile, you live
| longer. A lot of what appears to allow us to live longer is
| lower rates of cancer, but the data I've seen there isn't
| rock solid and it isn't something I've dug deeply into. I
| only mention it because it's certainly studied and a question
| worth pursuing, with very interesting papers available if you
| look.
|
| Something I read recently was about eunuchs living something
| like 25% longer than intact counterparts. However, the data
| was limited (15 each of eunuchs and intact as I recall).
| There were very few confounding factors, however. Really
| interesting stuff.
| altairprime wrote:
| It would still be net beneficial for anyone consuming
| industrial fructose to switch to fresh fruit of any kind.
| However, yes, if you've already withdrawn added fructose in
| processed foods and drinks from your diet, you could certainly
| optimize further on which kinds of fresh fruit you consume. It
| won't make any difference if you still drink fructose soda,
| though.
| throw646577 wrote:
| Going to go out on a limb here and say you probably shouldn't
| get any scientific advice about nutrition -- or really any
| scientific advice at all -- from anyone on Diary Of A CEO.
| lambdaba wrote:
| what a dumb remark, what does it matter who the host is
| thot_experiment wrote:
| It absolutely does matter?? If you're trying to do
| reference class forecasting and your class is "a person who
| is not a CEO" and then you're forecasting based on anecdata
| of "people who are a CEO" you're not going to get good
| predictions.
| airstrike wrote:
| people on the show aren't strictly "CEOs" in the truest
| sense of that word. just to pick an obvious
| counterexample, Robert Greene is an author, not a CEO,
| and he was a guest
| throw646577 wrote:
| The host in this case is a significant investor in Huel who
| seemingly fails to mention his relationship to it when
| bigging it up.
|
| https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rwz5xkrg8o
|
| To me it casts any discussion of nutrition on his podcast
| in a somewhat different, less than neutral light.
| lambdaba wrote:
| Okay, but the parent was implying that would discredit
| the interviewee. One thing I've observed with people that
| have an important message to disseminate is they are not
| fussy about what the medium is
| throw646577 wrote:
| I don't know if it would or would not. But some cynicism
| feels warranted by association.
|
| And then there's the further research you can do:
|
| https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ketogenic-diets-for-
| cancer-...
|
| I dunno. I don't know enough to evaluate this in precise
| detail. But I do know enough to feel cynicism about
| extraordinary claims.
| Ronwe wrote:
| In general yes, but there are some good guests that were
| there. For example, in case of nutrition, Dr. Layne Norton
| called him out on having a guy that was talking nonsense on
| the podcast and then they got in touch with Layne and had him
| on the podcast where he explained many of the misinformation
| about nutrition currently in wild.
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| Is there any information on nutrition at all? Isn't it 100%
| misinformation?
|
| Every week a new thing contradicts last week's thing.
| guerby wrote:
| A researcher opinion on Dr. Layne Norton:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ4p1bCsUio
|
| "When Predator Becomes Prey: Will Dr Layne Norton Choose
| Humility or Humiliation? by Nick Norwitz"
|
| YMMV
| turing_complete wrote:
| I don't like the interviewer, but just three weeks ago, Eric
| Schmidt was on the podcast and he is obviously very smart and
| knowledgeable about technology and business.
| throw646577 wrote:
| And yet, and yet, I still wouldn't take his diet advice
| that seriously.
| airstrike wrote:
| If you're going to make a bold claim like that, shouldn't you
| provide some support? Otherwise you're expecting us to just
| take an anonymous person's word for it... and particularly a
| throwaway account.
|
| You're saying "discount science based not on facts, but on
| the form in which such science is published" which is utterly
| unscientific
| throw646577 wrote:
| I did reply to another comment about my concerns about
| Diary of a CEO in the context of nutrition advice.
| culopatin wrote:
| That list of fructose levels is pretty useless when the units
| of measurement change per fruit. 1 cup vs 1 guava or 1 banana?
| doodlebugging wrote:
| At least they didn't use standard layman units like a
| fractional volume of an Olympic sized swimming pool.
| eikenberry wrote:
| I thought levels of fructose weren't as important as other
| qualities, like fiber content. For example, Dates are often
| referenced as a good fruit option due to the high fiber content
| but that guide doesn't mention fiber at all and has dates in
| the high fructose category. This seems like standard operating
| procedure in anything dietary where it is more about a specific
| aspect of the food and less about communicating well rounded
| advice.
| lm28469 wrote:
| > I thought levels of fructose weren't as important as other
| qualities, like fiber content.
|
| > Dates are often referenced as a good fruit option
|
| fyi, 100gr of dried dates it like 3 to 4 times the average
| amount of sugar recommended per day. Just 2 medjool dates and
| you hit your daily sugar recommendation.
|
| At the end of the day your body will have to process the
| stuff you ingest, if it comes with fibers the digestion will
| be slower, but if you eat too much of X Y Z day after day
| it's just a matter of time before your body gives up
| papa_bear wrote:
| I believe you'll meet the "Added or Free sugar"
| recommendation with 2 medjool dates, but AFAIK, the
| guideline isn't as strict on naturally occurring sugars, if
| there is any guideline at all aside from general carb
| consumption. Dates also have a surprisingly low glycemic
| index for how sweet they are.
| l5870uoo9y wrote:
| Monkeys at a UK were put off "human" bananas and developed
| diabetes[1]. Fruit is healthy desert not - like vegetables -
| main course.
|
| [1]: https://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/15/world/europe/uk-zoo-
| monke...
| georgecmu wrote:
| > One particular take away for me was his finding that when the
| body enters a ketogenic state due to fasting the body produces
| defences that eat up cancer cells
|
| As with everything, mileage will vary.
|
| Pro: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6375425/
|
| Contra: https://www.cancer.columbia.edu/news/study-finds-keto-
| diet-c...
|
| "We did indeed see that the ketogenic diet suppressed tumor
| growth -- but we also saw, surprisingly, that it promoted tumor
| metastasis," says Gu. "That was really a shock to us."
| fallinditch wrote:
| I think there's a misunderstanding here, my fault for not
| being clearer. I think I should have used the phrase 'when
| the body enters a state of ketosis' i.e. the state you get to
| when fasting when your body starts burning core fat. I
| believe the word ketogenic refers to the type of meat heavy
| diet. Thanks for those links, the fact that eating a lot of
| meat can promote tumor metastasis does not surprise me.
| sophacles wrote:
| There are plenty of vegetarian ketogenic diets. A ketogenic
| diet is one that contains very few, or no carbohydrates to
| maintain the ketosis - just high in fats and medium in
| proteins. Meat is a convenient form of food with those
| properties, so often people maintaining such a diet eat a
| lot of meat.
| arcticbull wrote:
| Ketosis occurs when your body switches from consuming
| glucose as its primary fuel source to consuming ketones
| which are generated from the breakdown of fatty acids,
| either from the diet or endogenous.
|
| Almost all body tissue can run on ketones instead of on
| glucose, except for certain important tissues like red
| blood cells, 30% of the brain, retina, some kidney tissue,
| etc.
|
| For the rest, your body synthesizes the glucose it needs
| via gluconeogenesis from some protein substrates and from
| glycerol backbodes from triglycerides. These inputs can be
| either from the diet or from your fat stores.
|
| Fasting for a few days causes your body to enter authophagy
| through the inhibition of mTOR in addition to ketosis, so
| that could account for some of the difference.
| weird-eye-issue wrote:
| In mice. I'm not a mouse, are you?
| mbreese wrote:
| An oncologist I know was fond of saying that we cured mice
| of cancer ages ago... cancer in humans is much more
| complicated.
| neom wrote:
| Just as an aside, as a complete rat lover and obsessed
| fancy rat freak, I always find it somewhat sad we could
| probably come up with some great drugs for them (they
| notoriously die very easily), just, well, who cares about
| rats???
| pharrington wrote:
| correct title is "Research reveals how fructose in diet enhances
| tumor growth"
| beastman82 wrote:
| I just asked Gemini about this, and it linked me to this article,
| published today.
|
| Maybe we have a reliable nutrition guide after all!
| deanc wrote:
| On a similar note...
|
| There is a particular type of kidney disease called Polycystic
| Kidney disease which is genetic. Essentially cysts grow all over
| your kidneys, they swell up, and eventually fail (usually over
| many years). There is emerging research that glucose contributes
| to the growth of these cysts and early research suggests
| ketogenic diet can have a measurable impact on the growth of
| these cysts and improve kidney function.
| defensem3ch wrote:
| what was the source of fructose used in the study? it doesn't say
| uhtred wrote:
| Why are so many techies also keto fanboys.
|
| I suspect it's because diets like keto say it's OK to eat loads
| of meat and basically don't require any sacrifice. Fuck the
| environment and fuck other animals right bros?!
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| It's hard to find tech jobs that aren't in support of some
| activity which is making the world a less pleasant place to be.
| So you're starting from a pool which has already has some
| cognitive dissonance momentum going. I don't think it's too
| surprising that that momentum would carry over into dissonance
| re: the side effects of your diet.
| Nasrudith wrote:
| Take your blinders off, please. Tech is nowhere unique in
| that issue and pretending so itself is its own major delusion
| of exceptionalism.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I feel like fruit used to be food but now the available cultivars
| resemble candy. Or maybe it's just my taste buds changing, not
| sure.
| hex4def6 wrote:
| I feel like I came across some similar research years ago.
|
| It brought up a question that I'm hoping someone in this field
| could answer: Does it make sense to speed up cancer cell
| replication while providing chemo drugs?
|
| It seems like this would result in greater discrimination between
| fast-replicating cells (cancer) and normal cells. In turn, this
| would allow faster chemo treatments, or less collateral damage.
| eecc wrote:
| Also this time "In mice"? (I hope)
| zenon wrote:
| Maybe worth noting that you have to eat a pretty large dose of
| fructose for it to make it all the way to the liver. More than in
| a few pieces of fruit. The small intestine converts up to 1g/kg
| (of bodyweight) fructose to glucose and other metabolites before
| it enters the liver portal vein.
| mchannon wrote:
| Fun fact: Sucrose, from our friends cane sugar and beet sugar, is
| a glucose/dextrose molecule tied to a fructose molecule. And when
| you digest it, you get the effects of some of each.
|
| Another fun fact: The "H" in HFCS stems from the fact just plain
| "corn syrup" is defined as 0% fructose. Fast food restaurants
| push the percentage to 58%+ fructose to turbocharge the sweetest
| taste in their sodas.
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