[HN Gopher] US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or...
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US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison
Author : ruffrey
Score : 19 points
Date : 2024-12-05 16:53 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (fincen.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (fincen.gov)
| ptliddle wrote:
| A Texas court just enacted a nationwide injunction on this.
|
| https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/nationwid...
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| I'm not big on reporting, but arguing that the report is
| burdensome for small businesses is laughable. The BFOI takes
| 5-10 min to complete.
| ilamont wrote:
| For you and I and everyone else on HN, the report is indeed
| trivial.
|
| For many other small businesses, it is not.
|
| There are millions of businesses which still operate largely
| on paper invoices and registers. Owners can't understand the
| text of the BOI website or the technical requirements, which
| includes registering for Login.gov.
|
| Others are completely engrossed in their day to day
| operations and won't even hear about the dire warnings from
| an obscure federal agency. If they happen to check the Yahoo
| or Hotmail accounts they use for their business (often their
| personal communications too) they are just as likely to
| ignore it as spam.
|
| That leaves it up to local accountants to fill the gap. Many
| don't know, or aren't keeping track of this because it's not
| a tax thing. When I asked my accountant about it she didn't
| answer for more than a month, and then sent out an
| explanation to all of her clients along with the following
| message:
|
| _If you want to engage us to prepare the BOI, our hourly
| rate is $250 will apply, with a one hour minimum. To minimize
| your fee, it is imperative for you to provide us with all the
| information required at once. Please contact our office if
| you wish us to prepare the BOI and we will send an engagement
| letter that will need to be signed and a list of documents we
| will need to prepare the BOI._
|
| Ignoring the $500 per day fines and threat of prison time,
| can you see how dealing with this is a non-starter for a lot
| of small businesses?
| CharlieDigital wrote:
| > There are millions of businesses which still operate
| largely on paper invoices and registers
|
| It was a really easy report to file. It was mostly about
| the ownership structure. A lot of scare tactics out there
| to make money, but filing it was just a few clicks and I
| had to get some info from my co-founder.
|
| I don't remember, but there's only like at most 10 screens
| and each is relatively short.
| ilamont wrote:
| Tell it to my 70 year old stone mason who doesn't have a
| computer, uses his phone only for making calls, only
| issues paper invoices and estimates, and only takes paper
| checks.
|
| Or the local restaurant owner from Guatemala in the
| nearest town who only takes cash, and has no mechanism
| for orders other than pointing at the menu or picking up
| the phone.
|
| A fact that seems to be lost on many tech people in
| coastal cities is technology literacy is limited. A 2016
| OECD skills survey laid out the problem with very deep
| data across developed countries:
|
| https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-
| matter_978926...
|
| If you want a summary, this stat should stand out: "26%
| of adults were unable to use a computer"
|
| https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
| CharlieDigital wrote:
| If you were a good Samaritan and actually concerned, you
| can literally sit down and finish this with them in a few
| minutes.
| bdangubic wrote:
| you are 100% right... but "70 year old stone mason who
| doesn't have a computer" has to file taxes with the IRS.
| also "Or the local restaurant owner from Guatemala in the
| nearest town who only takes cash" also needs to file
| taxes with the IRS. this is as important of a thing as
| your Apr 15th deadline to file your returns. so this "low
| tech / no tech" really is a cop-out - if you are a
| business owner you have responsibilities or you'll get
| closed up or punished (or both) if you do not comply
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| The BFOI isn't require for Sole Proprietorships which is
| probably the case with your stone mason and maybe the
| restaurant owner too.
|
| If they know enough to register and report as an LLC or
| Corporation then they likely know enough to fill out this
| report.
|
| I agree with you on the disparity in tech knowledge among
| small businesses. And probably they'll never hear about
| this report.
| jdlshore wrote:
| I just filled out the form. It's very straightforward and
| doesn't require registering for login.com.
|
| The bigger issue is knowing that it's needed. I wouldn't
| have known about it without seeing this post on HN.
| ilamont wrote:
| I did too. I was required to register for login.gov.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| you don't have to unless you want a FincenID; otherwise
| you can just upload your DL picture; I did it without any
| login
| LorenPechtel wrote:
| Yeah, this is the first I've heard of ownership
| information needing to be filed--but I don't have any
| LLCs to file for, anyway.
|
| Reading what the AG said about it he seems to feel it's a
| major intrusion for the government to require identifying
| the owners. I think that's what this is about--exposing
| the shell corporations. And of course the people who are
| keeping dirty books won't like that.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| Do you know what the BFOI requires? I just filled one out
| this morning.
|
| It's literally just the names and govID numbers of the
| beneficial owners. All the info you need is a picture of
| the driver's license for each owner. That's it. Not a
| single figure. No percentage of ownership or shares etc.
| Requires absolutely zero accounting.
|
| Also, the website requires no login, lessening the burden.
| (Actually for a gov website I thought it was pretty well
| designed, with clear help/explanations, etc.)
|
| Your accountant is souping it up.
| Cody-99 wrote:
| >For many other small businesses, it is not.
|
| They manged to form an LLC but can't fill out an additional
| simple form? Come on man be for real.
| cyanydeez wrote:
| Its burdensome for shell games and transparenct
| Artistry121 wrote:
| I think you're wrong. State, federal, local, speciality (food
| and alc), health, banking forms... as an entrepreneur there
| are already dozens of ways to screw up and miss something.
| Adding on extra things makes it easy to miss and adds on yet
| another burden.
|
| How many forms how many times a year do we need to fill out
| to be able to be free commercially? Are you free if you can
| be fined and thrown in jail for not filling out paperwork?
|
| It all adds up and doesn't add any value.
| encoderer wrote:
| Yes it was not hard.
|
| But why are we adding draconian punishments for new business
| paperwork?
|
| Why are you ok with that part?
|
| Why shouldn't this just be a fine?
|
| We really should not be ok with this if you wouldn't
| personally be ok with a friend going to jail who failed to
| file. I, for one, am definitely not.
| add-sub-mul-div wrote:
| Ken Paxton brings lawsuits against everything, though. Does
| this one have any merit?
| mminer237 wrote:
| This lawsuit was filed by a bunch of small entities, most
| importantly the Libertarian Part of Mississippi, but not
| including Ken Paxton, and a judge already granted the
| injunction, so at least he thinks it has merit. By the letter
| of the law, it's pretty clearly unconstitutional, but under
| the last hundred years of precedence of allowing almost
| anything under the commerce clause, it's less clear. The
| biggest issue with the CTA is definitely that it affects some
| non-profits. Arguing that requiring local non-profits to
| report their managers to the feds is "regulating interstate
| commerce" is a stretch for even the most liberal courts.
| LorenPechtel wrote:
| It doesn't make sense to me that a state court should be able
| to issue a nationwide injunction.
|
| And what's burdensome about it? (Now, a case could definitely
| be made for it being stupid duplicated effort. Every year I'm
| annoyed with FinCen over having to file a form about foreign
| accounts--almost all of the information also appears on our tax
| return. However, it's a minute or two of cut and paste once a
| year, no great burden.)
| mminer237 wrote:
| It's not a state court. It was a federal judge in the Eastern
| Texas district: https://polsinelli.gjassets.com/content/uploa
| ds/2024/12/cta-...
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(page generated 2024-12-05 23:01 UTC)