[HN Gopher] AI helps researchers dig through old maps to find lo...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       AI helps researchers dig through old maps to find lost oil and gas
       wells
        
       Author : gnabgib
       Score  : 225 points
       Date   : 2024-12-04 17:50 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (newscenter.lbl.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (newscenter.lbl.gov)
        
       | juujian wrote:
       | Sad thing is that researchers and NGOs are policing away at old
       | wells on a shoestring budget while the original operators have
       | made off with lots of money. Extract the profits, socialize the
       | damages...
        
         | Dah00n wrote:
         | Well, that _is_ the American way.
        
       | BlueTemplar wrote:
       | Albert, such a helpful guy !
        
       | postepowanieadm wrote:
       | One day, when I have too much time and too much money, I will
       | make a roguelike with map converted from old maps.
        
         | schlauerfox wrote:
         | Don't let dreams be dreams, start small, the minimum. One map,
         | one screen. Just a toy for yourself. A little effort expended
         | repeatedly yields compound interest.
        
       | karim79 wrote:
       | That's the ticket! I've always known that AI will save us all.
        
       | alephnerd wrote:
       | The same methods have also been used to identify archeological
       | sites [0]!
       | 
       | [0] - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-36015-5
        
       | spydum wrote:
       | I think this is cool but this is mostly being used to find leaky
       | old forgotten wells.
       | 
       | Not tap unused or forgotten wells. This is purely risk avoidance,
       | which usually means it won't get much attention or funding.
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | > which usually means it won't get much attention or funding
         | 
         | Leaky wells are a legal and insurance liability, which has a
         | downstream impact on the financing of a drilling project.
        
           | dowager_dan99 wrote:
           | They are also a huge, unfunded public liability in many
           | jurisdictions, like mine (Alberta). Companies disappear but
           | their rec-rem responsibilities last forever.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | You have to find them to make the case to fund the remediation.
         | Quantify, calculate, and communicate the risk and cost, then
         | action.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Fine them at rates that dwarf whatever cost it would take to
           | fix them. That would be the motivation necessary. Tell them
           | they have 30 days after being notified before the fines
           | start. Someone else on some other thread mentioned the ideas
           | of exponentially increasing fines. Do that here.
           | 
           | Of course, the company has to still exist
        
             | Dah00n wrote:
             | >Of course, the company has to still exist
             | 
             | The system in place in the US means they mostly do not. A
             | fund holding the amount of money it would take to clean up
             | whatever you do on the land should be mandatory. Leave the
             | land as -- or better -- than you bought it. Of course,
             | that's very un-American.
        
               | codingdave wrote:
               | Huh, in my energy industry experience, we always
               | remediated sites. And set aside funding for it before any
               | construction was done. The cost estimation and funding of
               | it was part of the initial planning and approval. I
               | thought it was mandatory and mostly did happen. Some
               | quick research says it is legally required, but IANAL nor
               | an expert.
               | 
               | Of course, that has not always been the case, and things
               | falls through the cracks, but I would not immediately
               | dismiss the entire industry as being non-compliant. I
               | would dismiss the entire industry as flawed and needing
               | change, but not on this specific point - it is vastly
               | improved over past decades.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | > Of course, that has not always been the case, and
               | things falls through the cracks, but I would not
               | immediately dismiss the entire industry as being non-
               | compliant.
               | 
               | There's a point in time where this changed and permits
               | needed at least a plausible expectation of remediation.
               | If I had to guess that would have been late 1980s to mid
               | 90s.
               | 
               | Most of the sites abandoned without remediation are from
               | permits obtained before that time. I'm sure there's some
               | cases where there was a setaside for remediation and it
               | wasn't sufficient and the corporate entities involved
               | went bankrupt, so it wasn't finished; but IMHO, most of
               | the problem is older sites. Older sites also tend to have
               | worse records, so there's that too.
        
           | Dah00n wrote:
           | If you know they are out there (and we do know) then hiding
           | your head in the sand until someone stuffs proof up your
           | behind seems rather.... well, you get the point.
           | 
           | In my opinion, that is like not fixing roads until someone
           | collects data on potholes and forces you to, instead of
           | actually keeping an eye on roads and bridges. A very American
           | POV I'd say.
        
             | cowsandmilk wrote:
             | Your opinion is very European in that it assumes you can
             | just walk around and find these. The US west where this is
             | focused is vast expanses of open un occupied land and
             | cannot just be inspected to find the abandoned wells from a
             | century ago. Same for large parts of Australia, so no
             | surprise the Australian commenters also find this
             | interesting.
        
         | jabroni_salad wrote:
         | The DOI has an orphaned wells program and it seems like one of
         | the few things that the BLM does with bipartisan support.
         | 
         | https://www.doi.gov/orphanedwells
        
       | jofer wrote:
       | This is super useful, but it's a bit disappointing to see map
       | digitization called "AI".
       | 
       | I mean, sure, these are methods broadly in the computer vision
       | realm and that gets referred to as "AI" sometimes. But at the end
       | of the day, this is "find all unfilled black circles of a
       | specified diameter on these images". It's amenable to (and has
       | been done by) traditional computer vision methods for a long
       | time. There are certainly a lot of cases where a CNN type
       | approach can perform better than traditional computer vision and
       | there are always improvements to make.
       | 
       | However, I think it's a bit odd to treat this type of use case as
       | some sort of AI breakthrough that wasn't possible or wasn't
       | frequently done in the past.
       | 
       | Why can't normal standard work have a press release? Why do we
       | need to play pretend and add buzzwords just to make things sound
       | "cool"?
       | 
       | ...But that's just me being a bit bitter, perhaps...
        
         | lovich wrote:
         | > Why can't normal standard work have a press release? Why do
         | we need to play pretend and add buzzwords just to make things
         | sound "cool"? > ...But that's just me being a bit bitter,
         | perhaps...
         | 
         | Were you complaining as heavily about OCR or Markov chains ever
         | being referenced as AI in their hay day?
         | 
         | The term "AI" is in an infinite treadmill and the day it stops
         | being useable as a time sensitive reference is probably the day
         | it surpasses humanity and becomes its own State
        
           | a_wild_dandan wrote:
           | You can make highly accurate predictions of what contrarians
           | will say by assuming that they define AI as "whatever
           | computers can't do yet."
           | 
           | LLMs aren't _truly_ intelligent. [No True Scotsman
           | fallacy...] They don 't _really_ reason. [A distinction
           | asserted without giving a falsifiable definition of
           | reasoning...] They 're _just_ next token predictors! [Which
           | must be mutually exclusive with intelligence, I suppose?]
           | Etc, etc, etc. Find your favorite pretext to dismiss modern
           | AI, ignore the holes in the argument, and satisfyingly
           | conclude that it 's all smoke and mirrors.
           | 
           | Consequently you see hilarious takes from skeptics, like
           | comparing today's enormous investment in AI to when people
           | sold blockchain cartoon monkeys. Or claiming that modern
           | models aren't useful for anything, as if they exist in an
           | alternative reality where hundreds of million of people don't
           | use them daily, and there's no incessant firehose of new
           | tools/products/results discussed in news/social media
           | constantly.
        
           | jofer wrote:
           | It's not that, it's breathlessly proclaiming that techniques
           | that have been standards for decades are "groundbreaking AI".
           | The hyperbole makes it impossible to get at anything, and if
           | you accurately propose a time tested solution at work these
           | days, it gets dismissed because it's "not AI". So now
           | standard computer vision methods that aren't AI in any way
           | are getting proclaimed as "AI". It's quite annoying, as least
           | from the perspective of someone who does more or less this
           | exact thing (geospatial analysis and data processing of
           | various types) for a living.
           | 
           | Folks won't let you use the right tool for the job anymore
           | unless you make wildly hyperbolic claims about how
           | groundbreaking it is and claim it's cutting edge AI.
           | 
           | The situation is bad for everyone. There's nothing wrong with
           | using the right tool for the job and accurately describing
           | it. I'm tired of having to inaccurately describe methods to
           | be allowed to use them. E.g. claiming a Hough transform is
           | "deep learning" so folks won't immediately dismiss it and
           | demand I use some completely incorrect approach to a simple
           | problem.
        
         | driverdan wrote:
         | Because too many people now refer to all of machine learning as
         | AI.
        
           | a_wild_dandan wrote:
           | All of machine learning _is_ AI. It 's a subset, by
           | definition.
        
             | mrweasel wrote:
             | The issue is that the terms have escaped the computer
             | science labs and the media and the public have latched on
             | to AI, and uses it for everything.
             | 
             | It is true that all of this, machine learning, large
             | language models, natural language processing and much more
             | is AI, in the sense that it falls under the same artificial
             | intelligence umbrella in computer science. It just feels a
             | little like some one is using the term "construction" over
             | and over, but what they are specifically talking about is
             | some very specialized type of carpentry. It's not wrong,
             | it's just not all that precise and give the wrong
             | impression.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > However, I think it's a bit odd to treat this type of use
         | case as some sort of AI breakthrough that wasn't possible or
         | wasn't frequently done in the past.
         | 
         | Classic computer vision is an _utter_ PITA - especially when
         | dealing with multiple libraries because everyone insists on
         | using a different bit /byte order, pixel alignment, row/col
         | padding, "where is 0/0 coordinate located and in which
         | directions do the axes grow" and whatnot.
         | 
         | The modern "AI" stuff in contrast can be done by a human in
         | natural language, with no prior experience in coding required.
        
           | jofer wrote:
           | It's usually the exact opposite for this sort of thing. You
           | can't do this with natural language. Traditional computer
           | vision is well suited to it and works with some tweaks.
           | "Modern" techniques for it require collecting insane amounts
           | of training data for simple things. You can't just throw
           | transfer learning at this because it's a lot different than
           | standard photographs that models are trained on. The old
           | school methods are faster and more reliable for a significant
           | number of problems in the geospatial world. And you still
           | need a lot of deep expertise no matter what.
        
         | Hilift wrote:
         | USGS have maps from over 100 years ago. They have already been
         | digitized. These are probably projects to search through like a
         | person would looking for things. People that collect insulators
         | used to collect the actual maps long ago looking for old
         | abandoned telegraph line locations (compared to today).
         | 
         | AI is useful for searching for targeted stuff where you can
         | replace a person doing something that is probably pretty easy,
         | but there is a lot of work that can be automated. Like
         | searching for new viruses. AI has made identifying new viruses
         | relatively easy and much quicker than a person, who typically
         | tweaks input and data looking through what is noise to identify
         | genome sequence of a new virus.
        
       | hilbert42 wrote:
       | It seems to me this approach could also be used for other aspects
       | of mining. For instance, in Australia where I live there are many
       | old gold, opal and other mines that have long been forgotten but
       | which remain dangerous.
       | 
       | Most are unlikely to emit toxic or greenhouse gasses but they're
       | nevertheless still dangerous because they're often very deep
       | vertical shafts that a person could stumble across and fall in.
       | These old mines were likely closed over when they were abandoned
       | but often their closures/seals were made of wood that has
       | probably rotted away over the past century or so.
       | 
       | It stands to reason that AI would be just as effective in this
       | situation.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > Most are unlikely to emit toxic or greenhouse gasses but
         | they're nevertheless still dangerous because they're often very
         | deep vertical shafts that a person could stumble across and
         | fall in.
         | 
         | That's a problem in Germany as well [1] - particularly in NRW,
         | where most of Germany's mining activity is concentrated for
         | centuries. About two or three times _a week_ an old shaft
         | collapses somewhere in Germany, leading to sinkholes - there 's
         | tens of thousands old mine shafts in the country and
         | information on a lot of the legal ones got lost in one of the
         | two world wars, and on top of these come quite the lot of
         | illegal operations. Usually the damage is in some remote area,
         | some forest or whatnot, but in some rare cases, entire
         | buildings vanish or have to be condemned.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.stern.de/gesellschaft/bergbauschaeden--
         | zehntause...
        
           | creshal wrote:
           | And for a long time, it was legal to have fun constructs like
           | "so the mine entrance goes horizontal for a bit until the
           | main shaft starts right under the local orphanage", so
           | sinkholes can be all sorts of fun.
        
             | HdS84 wrote:
             | In Mendig (Eifel) there is an enormous mine for millstones
             | which was in us for the whole middle age until the 19th
             | century or so. Most people just dug down from their Celler
             | and the whole city stands on enormous caverns.
        
               | saalweachter wrote:
               | As an American, I tend to think that D&D contrivances
               | like "everyone's basement is connected to a massive
               | labyrinth" are unrealistic, but ...
        
         | westurner wrote:
         | Is securing old mines a good job for (remotely-operated
         | (humanoid)) robots?
         | 
         | Old mines can host gravitational energy storage.
         | 
         | From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35778721 :
         | 
         | > _FWIU we already have enough abandoned mines in the world to
         | do all of our energy storage needs?_
         | 
         | "Gravity batteries: Abandoned mines could store enough energy
         | to power 'the entire earth'" (2023)
         | https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/03/29/gravity-batteries-...
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | On the other hand, old gold mines tend to be the best place to
         | find gold - the older the better since the technological
         | capabilities for gold recovery today are much greater then
         | those of the old miners (yet evidently they must've been
         | finding something to think it worth to keep digging).
        
         | aaron695 wrote:
         | > could also be used for other aspects of mining.
         | 
         | Can you link to even one Australian georeferenced historical
         | topographic map with 'gold, opal or other mine shaft' in it
         | that their AI uses?
         | 
         | How the hell would a gold mine shaft get on a topographic map?
         | (mining leases are just checkerboards -
         | https://treloars.cdn.bibliopolis.com/pictures/112669_00.jpg?...
         | )
         | 
         | I really don't understand HN.
         | 
         | Can I suggest go out and touch grass and find a (known) mine
         | shaft for yourself. Locations are on forums, be part of reality
         | for a bit. Not saying explore it, just go to the entrance.
         | 
         | On TikTok urban cavers are pumping out old mineshafts and
         | exploring them. I'm not going to link because it's cool having
         | abandoned mines around. We are probably a decade off people
         | bulldozing them all to think of the children and parents can
         | teach their kids the dangers of Minecraft instead. So do it
         | now.
        
           | zeofig wrote:
           | It's simple really. You use the power of imagination. In your
           | mind, AI can do anything!
        
           | nkrisc wrote:
           | And the other side of HN, where abandoned mineshafts are a
           | societal good and bulldozing hazards that blight the
           | landscape makes kids soft?
        
         | defrost wrote:
         | It seems to be this approach (using AI to identify symbols on
         | old maps) would be useless in finding old shafts in Australia
         | as such things pepper the landscape in various regions (eg: the
         | Kalgoorlie goldfields) but the majority were rarely marked on a
         | map beyond the obvious lease records that exist that _probably_
         | had shafts _somewhere_ within the lease pegs.
         | 
         | A better approach would be to tune an "AI" or rather an
         | adaptive Kalman filter variation to highlight probable shafts
         | from airborne EM and|or ground ERT surveys:
         | 
         | *
         | https://www.earthdoc.org/content/papers/10.3997/2214-4609.20...
         | 
         | *
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001379522...
         | 
         | * https://nextinvestors.com/learn-to-
         | invest/mining/electromagn...
         | 
         | *
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_tomogra...
         | 
         | * Variations on this type of thing:
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00983...
        
           | jvanderbot wrote:
           | A kalman filter does what, in this case? Pardon my ignorance,
           | but I have only seen that used for estimating locations /
           | parameters of some process or target, not for determining
           | existence ("is N>0?") or amounts ("what is N?").
           | 
           | You could cobble together a quantity estimation doing some
           | kind of batch data association with noisy "presence"
           | measurements, but you're probably not much better off than
           | k-means at that point and any KF-based measurement will
           | basically just say "Yes N>=1" because the probability is
           | nonzero.
        
             | defrost wrote:
             | There's much fun to be had with filters of varying kinds -
             | in airborne mag KF filters can be used for removing heading
             | induced signal - variations due to the plane travelling in
             | specific headings wrt earth magnetic field.
             | 
             | In a similar handwavy fashion, after picking instrument
             | paramers and distances that might twitch on shaft
             | responses, filters can be zeroed on regions with no shafts
             | to see if an enhanced response can be amplified when
             | processing the return over ground with a shaft to the
             | surface.
             | 
             | Other tells for lost 'hidden' shafts might include Lidar
             | profiles of spoil heaps .. these are clear in some cases,
             | eroded and softened in many others.
             | 
             | A good many old shafts are visible from the air in any
             | case; more so at some times of days than others - if the
             | will is there to map them then a first pass combo of visual
             | processing and lidar returns to map out open shafts is a
             | good start.
        
               | jvanderbot wrote:
               | > KF filters can be used for removing heading induced
               | signal
               | 
               | OK - fits what I'd use them for
               | 
               | > filters can be zeroed on regions with no shafts to see
               | if an enhanced response can be amplified when processing
               | the return over ground with a shaft to the surface
               | 
               | OK - I see, look for outliers as positives, though the
               | input signals here are not clear I can see the path. Your
               | KF filters produce a "likely signal" and that is used
               | downstream to actually do estimation. Probably, if I've
               | learned anything, by plotting those "likely signals" on a
               | map and dispatching a team with cameras.
               | 
               | > Other tells for lost 'hidden' shafts might include
               | Lidar profiles of spoil heaps
               | 
               | Here we're outside what I'd call just "filtering". It's
               | more like a big data science problem to model and label
               | mounds.
               | 
               | I was just confused by zeroing in on "KF" in the comment
               | above. If we're talking a big data pipeline, then yeah,
               | KF has its place in all that.
        
         | mimentum wrote:
         | There already exists, GeoResGLOBE.
         | 
         | https://georesglobe.information.qld.gov.au/
         | 
         | Go for your life ;)
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | The problem is that if oil/mining companies had to take care of
         | old wells/mines they'd instantly go bankrupt.
         | 
         | The only reason they make so much money is because they
         | disregard externalities
        
           | aziaziazi wrote:
           | You mean, like other companies with worldwide concurrence?
        
           | gosub100 wrote:
           | Take care of old mines from other companies?
        
           | AndyMcConachie wrote:
           | They'd still make tons of money if they had to cleanup their
           | spills and old mines. They're just greedy and want to make
           | more.
        
             | lm28469 wrote:
             | > They'd still make tons of money
             | 
             | I don't think you understand the scale of the problem...
             | Plugging leaking wells in the US alone is estimated to cost
             | $280b, that's 10 years of net profit for Shell or
             | ExxonMobil. Even taking the top 5 world oil companies
             | _profit_ from 2022 (most profitable year so far) you're
             | short $80b, for the US alone, and that's only onshore
             | wells.
             | 
             | > Researchers estimate that there are between 2-3 million
             | abandoned oil and gas wells in the United States, and more
             | than 117,000 of those, across 27 states, are "orphaned"--
             | that is, uncapped, unproductive, and with no responsible
             | party identified to manage leakage or pollution risks
             | 
             | https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/plugging-methane-leaking-
             | oil...
             | 
             | https://www.sciline.org/environment-energy/abandoned-oil-
             | gas...
        
               | PittleyDunkin wrote:
               | If the companies can't responsibly operate as a for-
               | profit entity, nationalization seems like a reasonable
               | path forward.
        
           | themaninthedark wrote:
           | The problem is if software companies had to take care of
           | their old programs/vulnerabilities they'd instantly go
           | bankrupt.
           | 
           | I think you will find many oil and mining companies have gone
           | bankrupt(as well as software companies) and that the problem
           | is a bit more nuanced than just treating the entire industry
           | as a single monolithic entity.
        
             | ZeroGravitas wrote:
             | Many of the oil and gas (and coal) companies that have gone
             | bankrupt are part of a deliberate ploy to load up debts and
             | externalities on firms that go bankrupt so that the people
             | who benefitted can escape their responsibilities.
        
           | BlueTemplar wrote:
           | And last I checked, tight oil US companies (taken together)
           | were _not_ even profitable (except for a single quarter) even
           | _despite_ a low interest rate financial environment and
           | wildly insufficient funds dedicated to cleanup ?
        
       | dukeofdoom wrote:
       | How long until AI can dig through old rabbit holes and come out
       | with Mossad connected US politicians?
        
         | jaggederest wrote:
         | This is a fun thing to think about - historical reconstruction.
         | In the extreme, you end up with something like Accelerando[1]'s
         | "resimulated" people - people recreated and resimulated in full
         | fidelity from any and all available history, but who may never
         | have actually existed. A bit like an AI hallucinating people.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-
         | static/fiction/acceler...
        
       | eichin wrote:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8QWxJhna8Y shows off some of the
       | efforts of https://welldonefoundation.org/ to actually _do_
       | something once they find them - which also puts more emphasis on
       | the abandonment part (specifically the industry irresponsibility
       | involved in allowing them to become hazards in the first place.)
        
         | bluSCALE4 wrote:
         | People should be confronted and shamed if their ancestors did
         | this and they won't do right by them.
        
           | oaththrowaway wrote:
           | Why do I get the blame and shame for something my
           | grandparents might have done wrong?
        
             | agf wrote:
             | If and only if you are still benefiting from that wrong, or
             | others are still suffering for it.
        
               | tharkun__ wrote:
               | That's a very slippery slope.
               | 
               | How do you define "benefit"?
               | 
               | Your dad swindled thousands of "investors" out of their
               | retirements and left you millions. You are benefiting
               | from this and the children of the "investors" are
               | suffering.
               | 
               | Your great-grand-dad swindled thousands of "investors"
               | out of their retirements and you inherit a business
               | empire. You are benefiting from this and the hundreds of
               | great-grand-children of the "investors" are also
               | suffering. They could've had inheritances but they didn't
               | and work at Walmart.
               | 
               | You can trace your lineage to Thomas Jefferson who
               | apparently owned 600 slaves over his lifetime. You still
               | benefit from him having been a president and a wealthy
               | man. You should have to trace ancestry of those slaves
               | and compensate their current living family members.
        
               | lukan wrote:
               | Slippery slope indeed.
               | 
               | But if your wealth comes from a line of crime, then yes,
               | compensation would be adequate.
        
               | themaninthedark wrote:
               | Cool! How far back are we going? What evidence is
               | required?
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | However far back and whatever evidence needed until it
               | starts affecting us.
        
               | qup wrote:
               | I have some neanderthal DNA, and you extincted my people,
               | so let's start settling up
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | Morally, sure, if you know your wealth is sourced from
               | crime, you likely have a moral obligation to disgorge it.
               | 
               | Practically, that's difficult. If you grew up wealthy
               | because of generational crime that provides life
               | advantages you can't return. At best, you could make sure
               | you direct any inheritance to victims if possible or a
               | suitable charity (and not your family foundation).
               | 
               | Legally, this is not plausible. All sorts of legal
               | principles dictate that lawsuits must be timely (for
               | various values of timely) and estates become
               | unlitigatable not very long after they're closed. There
               | are some cases in the news about crimes in WWII and such,
               | though.
        
               | lukan wrote:
               | It is a very complicated topic.
               | 
               | But the law knows such things in principle, even though
               | usually not individually, but rather collectivly.
               | 
               | Like the native americans get some sort of privilege
               | today. And (some) black americans demand reparations for
               | past slavery.
               | 
               | But where to draw the line indeed. I don't think there is
               | a universal answer.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | Predecessors at work, sure. Ancestors? Nah. I'm sure I had
           | some jerks in my lineage somewhere, and I don't owe anyone
           | atonement for their acts.
        
             | bluSCALE4 wrote:
             | Guess I don't mean all ancestors, mainly talking about
             | multi-generational wealth here.
        
           | gosub100 wrote:
           | Like north Korea does in the gulag? Three generations of
           | punishment?
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | That's a huge amount of effort (and carbon-fuel-powered energy)
         | involved in capping the well. Based on the numbers they
         | provide, I guess it's still worth it even if you consider the
         | lifecycle of all the trucks and equipment and concrete. But
         | that is quite an expensive procedure. Is it really so important
         | to completely plug the hole with impermeable concrete? You
         | can't plug it 1/3 of the way and then put a metal cap on with a
         | 10-year maintenance schedule?
        
       | bluSCALE4 wrote:
       | Though headlines like these annoy me since we, the people, are
       | being pressured to change our way of life when there are bigger
       | fish to fry, I'm glad we trying to fix things within our control.
       | Things like this shouldn't even be studied, they should be
       | addressed aggressively and fixed so we can get a clearer picture
       | of what we as individuals are responsible for.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Study is the necessary predecessor to fixing.
        
       | candlemas wrote:
       | I don't know what they mean by AI but this reminds me of an old
       | fortune:
       | 
       | *** Special AI Seminar (abstract)
       | 
       | It has been widely recognized that AI programs require expert
       | knowledge in order to perform well in complex domains. But
       | knowledge alone is not sufficient for some applications; wisdom
       | is needed as well. Accordingly, we have developed a new approach
       | to artificial intelligence which we call "wisdom engineering". As
       | a test of our ideas, we have written IMMANUEL, a wisdom based
       | system for the task domain of western philosophical thought.
       | IMMANUEL was supplied initially with 200 wisdom units which
       | contained wisdom about such elementary concepts as mind, matter,
       | being, nothingness, and so forth. IMMANUEL was then allowed to
       | run freely, guided by the heuristic rules contained in its
       | heterarchically organized meta wisdom base. IMMANUEL succeeded in
       | rediscovering most of the important philosophical ideas developed
       | in western culture over the course of the last 25 centuries,
       | including those underlying Plato's theory of government, Kant's
       | metaphysics, Nietzsche's theory of value, and Husserl's
       | phenomenology. In this seminar, we will describe IMMANUEL's
       | achievements and internal architecture. We will also briefly
       | discuss our recent efforts to apply wisdom engineering to oil
       | exploration.
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | If anybody likes treasure hunting, there are lots of lost gold
       | mines too
       | 
       | You can come across the land parcel claims sometimes by families
       | that don't have the capital to mine
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | I found out Red Hat is now using AI to dig through git commits in
       | large upstream projects to find out what new features were added
       | and removed, to direct downstream QE efforts. It's done with a
       | human review afterwards. Kind of interesting, not sure yet how
       | well it'll work in practice.
        
         | throwaway2037 wrote:
         | > downstream QE efforts
         | 
         | What does this phrase mean?
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/what-open-source-upstream
        
       | uz44100 wrote:
       | AI seems to be everywhere these days. That was gonna happen one
       | day. This is gonna be really interesting in coming days.
        
       | _heimdall wrote:
       | We really need a more clear definition of what "AI" means.
       | 
       | What the article describes sounds like it could have been built
       | with 10 year old image processing tools and basic algorithms
       | crunching the large amount of sensor data used to identify
       | potential wells.
       | 
       | What makes this tool AI rather than an algorithm? Or machine
       | learning?
        
         | acdha wrote:
         | Computer vision is AI, it's just not an LLM: a computer is
         | performing work like our brains do. Your argument is basically
         | what Bertram Raphael was saying in the 1970s: "AI is a
         | collective name for problems which we do not yet know how to
         | solve properly by computer".
        
           | gosub100 wrote:
           | Some CV is AI, like "identify pictures of cats", but not
           | straightforward filters in an algorithm such as "narrow the
           | bands of visible light to those that make existing mineshafts
           | stand out, then scan the entire continent recording the top
           | 20% of matches for this value (with some wiggle room to
           | account for variants)".
           | 
           | That is very much manual intelligence
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | It's simple: AI is what you call it when it's useless / when
         | you don't know what you're talking about / when you're looking
         | for investors money. When it becomes useful it gains a name,
         | like "computer vision", "machine learning", "natural language
         | processing", "image generator"
        
       | _heimdall wrote:
       | > Researchers used the AI algorithm to scour four counties of
       | interest that had substantial early oil production - Los Angeles
       | and Kern counties in California, and Osage and Oklahoma counties
       | in Oklahoma - and found 1,301 potential undocumented orphaned
       | wells. So far, researchers have verified 29 of the UOWs using
       | satellite images and another 15 from surveys in the field;
       | 
       | It would be really helpful if they called out how many potential
       | wells were inspected and couldn't be verified. Are they
       | confirming at 100% or 10%?
        
       | dc0848 wrote:
       | Could it help me find my keys I lost this morning?:))
        
         | TuringTourist wrote:
         | There is a (likely small) chance that you lost your keys in an
         | unknown or lost oil/gas well. So yes, in theory.
        
       | reflectiv wrote:
       | I was a developer at Shell a couple years back and led a project
       | where we were using nascent GPT-1/2 to process and search over
       | mountains of documents. It was a fun project where I wrote a
       | complex/fancy UI for a stratigraphic filter and indexing
       | system...
       | 
       | Seems this is just a natural progression...neat.
        
         | tikkun wrote:
         | That's pretty cool that Shell was such an early adopter.
         | 
         | Who led the adoption of GPT-1/2 there - a developer, you, a VP,
         | someone else?
        
           | reflectiv wrote:
           | AI in general at the time was led by a VP and a particular
           | group (that was AI tech specialized) under him. The initial
           | idea came about from them. We were trying to find new ways of
           | using AI to research new sources of crude at the time.
           | 
           | Another AI project I worked on there was a chemical tank use
           | estimation and refuel application which used tank sensors,
           | previous use history and some other metrics to pre-purchase
           | and deliver product to keep tank reserves above a certain
           | threshold.
           | 
           | For context, all of this was circa 2018-2021.
        
       | fulafel wrote:
       | As we regulate AI with concerns energy and emissions, wouldn't
       | this be the low hanging fruit to forbid first?
        
       | thuuuomas wrote:
       | The negative tone of some comments here betrays that techno
       | optimist suggestion that tech will solve environmental issues.
       | Clearly, the incentives just aren't there!
        
         | DrillShopper wrote:
         | Tech has caused more and worse environmental issues than it has
         | ever solved.
        
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