[HN Gopher] Atmospheric analysis shows Venus never had Earth-lik...
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       Atmospheric analysis shows Venus never had Earth-like life,
       scientists say
        
       Author : aguaviva
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2024-12-02 22:27 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | GenerocUsername wrote:
       | Venus dry now. Venus dryness not changing. Therefore Venus always
       | dry. Therefore Venus never had earth like life
        
         | jvanderbot wrote:
         | Venus planetary science (Venusian?) lacks the abundance of in-
         | situ data that Mars has. We'll know more in a decade.
        
           | pantalaimon wrote:
           | Are there any probes planned?
        
             | kulahan wrote:
             | Yes, they cover this in the article. Flyby + probe.
        
             | jvanderbot wrote:
             | Yes! Venus just got a lot of attention lately, when it was
             | clear Mars priorities were declining.
             | 
             | https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/planets/venuspage.htm
             | l                   DAVINCI - NASA Venus Flyby and Probe
             | (2029)         VERITAS - NASA Venus Orbiter (2031)
             | EnVision - ESA Venus Orbiter (2031)
             | 
             | Davinci: https://ssed.gsfc.nasa.gov/davinci/
             | 
             | Veritas: https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/veritas/
             | 
             | EnVision: https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Sci
             | ence/Envisi...
             | 
             | That davinci page is pretty cool!
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | What new tech have they used to allow the in-situ data to be
           | obtained that allows the lander to not be crushed/melt on the
           | surface?
        
             | jvanderbot wrote:
             | Crushing is manageable but melting is the issue. At this
             | point all planned missions are still orbiters, so Venus
             | will still not have the wealth of in-situ data that Mars
             | does.
             | 
             | There are two major concepts that I found really fun: 1)
             | airships and 2) steampunk rovers.
             | 
             | Airships:
             | 
             | 2018 JPL: https://science.nasa.gov/resource/aerial-
             | platforms-for-the-s...
             | 
             | 2020s report on in-situ sampling using airships as
             | mothership https://kiss.caltech.edu/final_reports/Venus_In_
             | Situ_Final_R...
             | 
             | Clockwork rover for long-lived venus exploration:
             | https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/a-clockwork-rover-for-venus/
             | 
             | I don't think that last one was (too) serious, but it was
             | interesting to sus out the costs/benefits at TRL1-2 at
             | least.
             | 
             | AGU is a fairly open, very accessible conference for
             | tracking progress on these. Here's a short paper on venus
             | long lived surface missions.
             | 
             | https://arxiv.org/pdf/1611.03365
        
               | tivert wrote:
               | > Clockwork rover for long-lived venus exploration:
               | https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/a-clockwork-rover-for-
               | venus/
               | 
               | STRANDBEEST EVOLUTION 2021:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C97kMKwZ2-g
               | 
               | Screw Venus, they need to work on adding mechanical
               | computers to these Strandbeests, so they can turn around
               | and wander the world's beaches autonomously for _years_
               | at a time.
        
       | risenshinetech wrote:
       | The article absolutely does not support the claim made in the
       | title. Either the writer did an awful job of summarizing the
       | findings, or the findings are very weak.
        
         | kulahan wrote:
         | Huh? They specifically said, in a quote from the article, that
         | it rules out Earth-like life. It's too dry to have supported
         | that kind.
        
         | LegionMammal978 wrote:
         | The paper's arguments [0] are from climatic modeling. When
         | Venus formed, it had lots of water in its interior. If its
         | magma oceans cooled very slowly, most of the water would have
         | escaped into space. But if its magma oceans cooled quickly,
         | there may have been liquid water on the surface at some point,
         | and there would have also been lots of interior water left.
         | This interior water wouldn't have much chance to escape, even
         | after the surface water boiled away.
         | 
         | They found that there's very little hydrogen present in its
         | volcanic gases, suggesting that it doesn't have much interior
         | water, and that it didn't in the past, which precludes the
         | formation of surface oceans. It's not incontrovertible proof
         | (something we'll most likely never have), but it's still solid
         | evidence against oceanic life.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-024-02414-5
        
           | Teever wrote:
           | But how can they rule out the water leaving the planet very
           | quickly _after_ a long time of Earth Like conditions?
           | 
           | It's been a while since I took a solar system geology course
           | but IIRC Venus undergoes periodic planet wide resurfacing
           | events that wipe out the geological record.
           | 
           | I'm not sure if we can tell when those events started
           | happening. It's entirely plausible they only started
           | happening recently (geologically speaking) which possibly
           | would not show up in the gas analysis.
           | 
           | Again, I'm no expert.
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | We should still be looking at Venus cloud cities, they are much
       | better than Mars, with at least as a magnetosphere.
        
         | kirykl wrote:
         | ultimately we need to move away from the Sun not closer
        
           | gambiting wrote:
           | If by "ultimately" you mean "in the next few hundred million
           | years" - sure. But that's an absolutely nonsensical time
           | scale to be worrying about when we're at a stage where we can
           | barely escape Earth's orbit.
        
           | rqtwteye wrote:
           | We have a few hundred million years before we need to worry
           | about the sun.
        
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