[HN Gopher] A particle physics course for high-school students
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       A particle physics course for high-school students
        
       Author : treetalker
       Score  : 229 points
       Date   : 2024-12-04 03:49 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ppc.web.cern.ch)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ppc.web.cern.ch)
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | Amazing stuff! I visited CERN this year on holiday. One of the
       | few places where humanity's desire for betterment remains.
        
       | niemandhier wrote:
       | That is brilliant and beautiful, I just wished that they would
       | not default to English.
       | 
       | Sure that's what you use to talk about particle physics, but this
       | is targeted towards kids and by doing this the "Organisation
       | europeenne pour la recherche nucleaire" makes it harder for
       | French, Swiss, German etc. kids to follow.
       | 
       | It should not be hard to do a voiceover, at 4h I'd even
       | volunteer.
        
         | 2143 wrote:
         | What should they have defaulted to?
         | 
         | I mean, wouldn't any language they choose exclude others?
        
           | bowsamic wrote:
           | French would definitely be the more obvious choice in this
           | case
        
             | mschild wrote:
             | Both English and French are the official working languages
             | of Cern.
             | 
             | They should include more languages than just English, but
             | French is not by default the more obvious choice.
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | Right, but there are other reasons why French is more
               | obvious, not just "by default" but based on arguments and
               | reasoning. Or has HN truly forgotten about these things?
        
               | solveit wrote:
               | The previous poster was actually inviting you to expound
               | on the other reasons.
        
         | ppppo wrote:
         | I'm sure they have infinite resources and time to make it
         | available in every language ever including braille.
         | 
         | But seriously, it's obviously meant to have a wider audience
         | than just those countries you mentioned. Not even mentioning
         | the elephant in the room that they are funded by many other eu
         | countries (~23) that have their own languages as well. What
         | else besides the most international language in the world
         | should they have chosen?
        
           | niemandhier wrote:
           | Adding a language does not exclude another? I completely
           | understand that you do the videos in English and for adult
           | audience that's great, but for kids below 16 it's a bit
           | challanging.
           | 
           | I just wish that for non English speaking kids there would be
           | more resources in their native languages, especially since
           | mathematical interests and interest in languages rarely are
           | equally strong.
           | 
           | The fact that the US has such a large unified one language
           | market really gives them an edge when it comes to creating
           | content.
           | 
           | It would be stupid to ask American educators to provide
           | content in language irrelevant in their country; but given
           | that France, Italy and Germany together provide for 40% of
           | cern budget wishing for human made subtitles surly is nothing
           | outrageous.
        
             | gus_massa wrote:
             | YouTube is doing some auto-dubbing. It detects I'm in
             | Argentina and it shows the autranslated Spanish version. I
             | hate it. It's not bad, a little robotic, but not bad.
             | 
             | For kids below 16 ... I agree. My 7 y.o. is studing some
             | English at school and sometimes she watchs cartoons in
             | English, and she aparently understand most of it. But
             | watching technical stuff is more difficult.
        
             | FredPret wrote:
             | It's much easier to learn complicated things in one's
             | native tongue.
             | 
             | OTOH, it's a huge advantage to learn technical English
             | early on. It's the language of computers, engineering,
             | science, math, business.
        
             | scionthefly wrote:
             | This is version 1.0. CERN education has a great track
             | record of native language activities and will no doubt
             | expand to other languages assuming this course is
             | successful and useful.
        
         | cjfd wrote:
         | Well, it says 'pilot version' so maybe there will be a more
         | definitive version later that is available in more languages.
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Volunteer accepted!
         | 
         | 1. Watch the video with subtitles in your language.
         | 
         | 2. Record audio of you reading the subtitles in time with the
         | video.
         | 
         | 3. Upload your recording as YouTube video or to an audio
         | hosting website
         | 
         | 4. Post a link to your recording, as a comment on YouTube and
         | in a message to the producers
         | 
         | Optional: Download the video from YouTube using available
         | tools, and merge your audio track into the video, and re upload
         | it.
        
       | demaga wrote:
       | It's only 4 hours? I expected it to be longer, even for an
       | introductory course.
       | 
       | Anyway, it's a great effort! And it makes me happy to see how
       | seriously they take it.
       | 
       | Since I have near 0 knowledge in the matter, I might actually
       | take it.
        
       | ngcc_hk wrote:
       | Strange about the comments.
       | 
       | " Subtitles are available in all languages! Simply switch on
       | closed captions and select the auto-translation of the original
       | subtitles in your preferred language."
       | 
       | I think each speaker has its native language and hence this is
       | the universal access approach.
       | 
       | I did wonder whether their native language is English. But
       | English good for me. Well we are not commenting on ...
        
         | mamediz wrote:
         | I'm surprised about the auto-translation, it's working great.
         | However, unforntunately I think there is no option to auto-
         | translate the quizzes.
        
       | ValentinA23 wrote:
       | https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/dec/16/physicist-bo...
       | 
       | Your educational experiment involved 54 schoolchildren, aged
       | 15-17, who were randomly selected from around 1,000 applicants,
       | from 36 UK schools - mostly state schools. The teenagers spent
       | two hours a week in online classes and after eight weeks were
       | given a test using questions from an Oxford postgraduate quantum
       | physics exam. More than 80% of the pupils passed and around half
       | earned a distinction. Were you surprised by their success?
       | 
       | At one point, I was going to call off the whole thing because I
       | thought it was going to be a complete disaster. We'd originally
       | wanted the kids to interact with each other on social media or
       | communicate online, but that wasn't allowed due to the ethical
       | guidelines for the experiment. I thought, what sort of
       | educational experience is it, if you can't talk to each other?
       | 
       | This is the Covid generation: none of them put their cameras on
       | [for the online classes], so we were looking at a black screen.
       | None of them asked questions using their voices, they just typed.
       | It was a difficult teaching challenge by all standards. We also
       | saw a self-esteem problem with the students. But the majority of
       | kids liked that we had announced that you didn't need a complex
       | maths background. The maths had been a barrier to kids who had
       | wanted to access this knowledge.
       | 
       | And then we got back the numbers. They did significantly better
       | than we see from university-level students. Exams were marked
       | blind, so we don't know how many came in with the aim of pursuing
       | Stem. We are processing that data now.
        
         | kitd wrote:
         | Now I have questions about the Oxford postgraduate quantum
         | physics exam :)
        
           | sesm wrote:
           | Exactly, how can one pass a postgraduate level exam 'without
           | complex math'?
        
             | tzs wrote:
             | It didn't say their exam was an _entire_ postgraduate exam.
             | It said they passed an exam consisting of questions _from_
             | a postgraduate exam.
             | 
             | I'd guess that if someone tried to take the entire exam it
             | would include things that do require "complex math"
             | (whatever that is). But you don't have to get to the parts
             | of QM that require such math in order to cover things that
             | exhibit the meat of QM, such as superposition,
             | entanglement, and uncertainty principles. I'd guess that it
             | was those kinds of things covered for these students and
             | that is what they were tested on.
        
             | elashri wrote:
             | I have doubt that anyone with a high school maths would
             | even understand any of these (2023 MSc QM level Oxford
             | exam) [1] . but reading the original source on the study
             | [2] it seems like it is not this or any of what we expect.
             | 
             | > This article is concerned with a new language for
             | quantum, to which we refer as quantum picturalism (QPict)
             | [5]. It is the subject of two books written by some of the
             | authors, respectively entitled Picturing Quantum Processes
             | [10] and Quantum in Pictures (QiP) [9]. The first one is
             | the text book of an Oxford University postgraduate course
             | that has been running for well over ten years now. The
             | second one, remarkably, has no mathematical prerequisites
             | beyond what is already taught to 6-7 year olds in the UK,
             | namely angles
             | 
             | [1] https://mmathphys.physics.ox.ac.uk/sitefiles/advanced-
             | quantu...
             | 
             | [2] https://oxford24.github.io/assets/act-
             | papers/49_high_schoole...
        
         | gus_massa wrote:
         | > _from 36 UK schools_
         | 
         | > _and after eight weeks were given a test_
         | 
         | Was the test remote or in-person? I've seen children (and
         | adults) cheating even for stupid tests that have no
         | grades/prices/whatever.
        
         | Gooblebrai wrote:
         | > we were looking at a black screen. None of them asked
         | questions using their voices, they just typed. It was a
         | difficult teaching challenge by all standards
         | 
         | IMO This is one of the most depressing things about teaching
         | teenagers online in real-time. But I don't know what we can do
         | about it. Should we adapt to it? Are there any benefits to
         | enforcing the cameras and voice dialogues?
        
           | quacked wrote:
           | The only way you can get teenagers to really engage with any
           | kind of instruction is to take some of the guardrails off and
           | let them interact freely. This means they'll ask
           | controversial questions, use slang, curse now and again,
           | crack jokes, and go off into tangents that they've been
           | thinking about. Adults are allowed to do all this at work,
           | but teenagers aren't allowed to do it at school, and virtual
           | education makes this even more boring.
           | 
           | One example: for online teaching, that may require a
           | streaming model where there's a live, mostly uncensored chat
           | where they can keep side conversations going and react to the
           | material. I'm not sure if that model would be of use, but I
           | do know that trying to get teenagers to engage requires the
           | same thing it always has, which is taking them seriously as
           | adults and not censoring them.
        
           | LoganDark wrote:
           | I'm autistic and prefer text for virtually all communication
           | because it's easier for me to control a keyboard than it is
           | for me to control my voice.
        
         | ndriscoll wrote:
         | That sounds neat, but it seems like it's specifically for
         | certain (discrete) processes? Like can you use this to e.g.
         | derive the shape of atomic orbitals or predict something about
         | spectra (which are kind of important parts of quantum
         | mechanics)? If not then the implication that it's somehow
         | teaching people years of material in 16 hours is about as silly
         | as it sounds.
         | 
         | The "famously bizarre" parts are the parts that tie it back to
         | the questions that first motivated it, e.g. what is "stuff"
         | made out of, why do molecules behave the way they do, and how
         | to reconcile that with naive predictions you might have from
         | Coulomb's law.
        
       | whitehexagon wrote:
       | It is many years since I visited CERN, but I really enjoyed my
       | time there. One of the scientists was wandering around the
       | visitor center willing to chat about the science at a quite
       | detailed level.
       | 
       | Programs like this education experiment are essential to maintain
       | interest in these big science projects that can take decades of
       | planning and execution. A sliver of hope for humanity that we are
       | still willing to collaborate on such a massive scale to deliver
       | and run such projects.
       | 
       | Well done everyone, apart from the person that decided the home
       | of the internet was not capable of self hosting the videos.
        
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