[HN Gopher] Show HN: Book and change flights with one email
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       Show HN: Book and change flights with one email
        
       Hi there,  TLDR; I built an inbox simulator so you can try BonBook
       in 15s, without sharing your email.  Earlier this year I was flying
       2-3 times per month and found booking and changing flights a
       hassle. So I decided to fix it.  BonBook lets you find, book and
       change flights with one email. It can also auto-find flights for
       events you're attending.  Over the last few days, I built a
       simulator that lets you interact with BonBook without sharing your
       email. It responds with real flights and each response includes a
       link to compare w/ Google.
        
       Author : themagyar
       Score  : 113 points
       Date   : 2024-12-03 02:31 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bonbook.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bonbook.co)
        
       | adawg4 wrote:
       | insanely easy, make it on SMS?
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | it's on the roadmap!
        
       | indchief101 wrote:
       | Wow, this is a brilliant idea! It sounds perfect for fewuent
       | travellers.
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Thanks for the kind words
        
       | SocksCanClose wrote:
       | I am one of the early customers and this works like a charm.
       | 
       | Was on a flight last week that was on the tarmac for two hours
       | due to weather one evening last week; the pilot finally got on
       | the PA system and announced we were headed back to the terminal.
       | I booked myself a new flight for the next morning within 90
       | seconds. Pure magic.
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Happy BonBook could help. Thanks for the glowing recommendation
        
       | rdl wrote:
       | Wow.I book a lot of flights, often waste a huge amount of time
       | find the best flight, and would use this for a lot of the easier
       | bookings. I was amazed at how well it works (in the simulator).
       | 
       | Google Flights is really the last Google product I routinely use
       | -- happy to have an alternative!
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Happy to give you one. Biased but the live beta is better.
        
         | danpalmer wrote:
         | > often waste a huge amount of time find the best flight
         | 
         | Would you trust that this would book you the "best" flight?
         | Every user has a different definition of "best" - cheapest,
         | shortest, fewest stopovers, shortest stopovers, airline
         | preference, lounge preference, seat preference, time of day
         | preference...
         | 
         | Personally I find Google Flights gives me the right amount of
         | detail and I book flights I'm happy with.
        
           | themagyar wrote:
           | Fair, beta isn't for everyone. It's geared towards frequent
           | fliers and people who want to save time. But lets break down
           | the points:
           | 
           | -> cheapest?? Frequent fliers are primarily concerned with
           | time efficiency.
           | 
           | -> shortest/fewest-stopovers/shortest-stops?? These are all
           | synonyms for efficiency.
           | 
           | -> airline preference?? Beta curates based on airline
           | loyalty.
           | 
           | -> lounge preference?? Not handled when booking flights..
           | 
           | -> seat preference?? Furthest forward aisle/window, avoid no-
           | recline, some want extra legroom (beta has an algo that
           | handles this).
           | 
           | -> time of day?? Easy, just add it to your request (works in
           | sim too).
        
             | danpalmer wrote:
             | My partner books a lot of travel for people who travel a
             | lot, and while some of this is broadly true, I think the
             | devil is in the details. They get a lot of preferences from
             | people who arguably should only care about their time, but
             | in reality also have comfort preferences.
             | 
             | When you say that shortest/fewest stopovers/shortest stops
             | are all synonyms for efficiency, this is true, but also
             | misses human factors. Some people prefer a single flight at
             | nearly all costs, some people prefer to have shorter
             | flights with stopovers even if the total time spent is
             | slightly longer. Ask someone if they'd rather have a 45
             | minute stopover or a 1.5 hour stopover and I bet most would
             | choose the latter, despite taking more time.
             | 
             | > time of day?? Easy, just add it to your request (works in
             | sim too).
             | 
             | This also misses the fact that everything is about
             | tradeoffs. I'd like a flight after 9am, the tool tells me
             | that will be A$500, oh yeah, you know what I don't mind
             | flying at 8:30am for A$200.
             | 
             | I think for a tool like this to work beyond a specific
             | audience of optimisation nerds who only care about their
             | time, it needs to treat _everything_ as negotiable, and
             | then present sensible alternatives outside of spec.
             | Sacrifice time for lower stress, sacrificing seat
             | preference for sooner flight, sacrificing airline
             | preference based on price, sacrificing destination based on
             | availability.
             | 
             | Being close to someone doing this job, and having travelled
             | a fair bit of long haul over the last few years, I know
             | that "efficiency" is very nuanced with personal
             | preferences, that most people don't give even a fraction of
             | the required information to be able to actually do this
             | well and back and forth is necessary.
             | 
             | I wish you all the best of luck, if you can make it work,
             | great!
        
           | ipdashc wrote:
           | Yeah, I'm kind of surprised by all the uniform praise in the
           | comments - NOT saying it's not a cool tool, it's definitely
           | very impressive and the author's done a nice job, but I could
           | never really see myself using this. Mainly just because
           | flights are super expensive, I can't see myself trusting a
           | bot to make the best choice instead of spending 10 minutes of
           | my own time to potentially save a lot of money. I guess it's
           | a different world when you're a super frequent flier (or when
           | your company is paying, of course).
           | 
           | It reminds me of the Carvana ads that called out home
           | delivery for cars. Like, it's definitely neat, and I'd love
           | to skip scummy dealerships, but convenience is wayy down my
           | list of priorities when I'm dropping that much money on
           | something.
        
             | themagyar wrote:
             | Worth noting: if you don't specify a time of day in your
             | search, you will see the cheapest flight on that day.
             | 
             | Bots can analyze several thousand flight options (which
             | even the sim does) in a few seconds. So odds are it catches
             | a deal someone might otherwise miss.
             | 
             | Also, because BonBook searches direct w/ airlines, it sees
             | inventory not shared with Google (and regularly has better
             | fares).
        
               | ipdashc wrote:
               | Interesting, the last one is pretty surprising. I kind of
               | just assumed all airline booking systems (Expedia, Google
               | Flights, Kayak, whatever) all used the same underlying
               | service - maybe SABRE or something, but that's a total
               | shot in the dark. Would love to hear what the difference
               | is, assuming you're comfortable with sharing!
        
               | themagyar wrote:
               | Can share a bit of background: (TLDR; airlines want to
               | keep more profit so are witholding some fares.)
               | 
               | A system called GDS (Global Distribution System) was
               | built in the 60s as a data transmission standard. Was
               | used by airlines to publish fares (among other things).
               | But it was complicated so aggregators (Sabre, Amadeus,
               | Travelport) were born to ingest all this published data
               | and make it easily searchable.
               | 
               | When travel went online in the late 90s, Online Travel
               | Agents (OTAs) were using this data, and since then most
               | new OTAs have too. (An example; Expedia's first patent
               | minimized GDS searches per customer request, saving them
               | $$).
               | 
               | But, because OTAs take a cut and airline margins are
               | thin, IATA (group of airlines) came up with a new system
               | called NDS (New Distrubution Standard) in mid 2010s.
               | Since its an XML standard that anyone can consume direct,
               | airlines have been trying to push everyone onto NDC by
               | simply not publishing certain tickets via GDS, requiring
               | OTAs to book X% of tickets via NDC and even removing
               | inventory entirely.
               | 
               | Some examples: American trying to go full NDC recently
               | but getting pushback and Turkish Airlines pulling out of
               | Sabre.
        
               | ipdashc wrote:
               | Super cool stuff. Thanks for the info.
        
               | Y_Y wrote:
               | Is there a reasonable way for me to consume this data
               | directly? I'd love to be able to pull a big pile of
               | flight prices and mess around with the data, but I'd
               | prefer not to pay big money or have to register as a
               | travel agent or anything.
        
               | themagyar wrote:
               | Depends on the detail. There are a few simple ones (eg
               | flightlab).
        
           | rdl wrote:
           | I would use it for flights where the best flight is pretty
           | obvious, or in cases where satisficing is fine. I'd tbh
           | mostly use it when OTHER PEOPLE ask me to find a flight for
           | them.
           | 
           | I'd also use it to quickly book flights on my preferred
           | airlines because I have free changes/cancellations on those,
           | so the value of getting something booked immediate and then
           | refined later (and possibly rebook) is fine.
        
       | sib wrote:
       | Great idea. Would use (flew 140 segments the year before Covid).
       | 
       | One piece of feedback:
       | 
       | I asked for a "flight from LAX to..." and it recommended flights
       | from SNA and ONT (two other airports in the Greater Los Angeles
       | area). These airports are easily 1.5 - 2 hours away from LAX at
       | commute times.
       | 
       | I suggest that, if the user requests a specific airport (as
       | indicated by an IATA code), you limit responses to that airport
       | code by default, rather than broadening the search to a region.
       | 
       | If I had asked for a "flight from Los Angeles to..." I would not
       | have been surprised by the current behavior (and probably would
       | have appreciated it.)
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Solid feedback.
         | 
         | To keep the demo light, it doesn't have full functionality but
         | being specific on airports vs cities is part of the live beta.
         | 
         | NYC is another example w/ EWR. Can say "NYC" or specify "JFK or
         | LaGuardia". DC too for people wanting to avoid the drive w/
         | BWI.
         | 
         | Happy to share access. Feel free to shoot me an email
         | (attila@).
        
           | sib wrote:
           | Cool, thanks - I sent you an email
        
       | pomian wrote:
       | So I've tried a few variations on ticket searches. Pain language
       | great. Two fliers great, can specify times and stops. Trans
       | continental with connections, works - specifying destinations and
       | round trips Worked great too. Local flight in Western Canada,
       | came up with options, but very expensive, and in USD. I don't use
       | Google for flights - but your tool provides a very efficient way
       | of communicating to google, to get what you want. One thing I
       | noticed so far, that Google prefers Lufthansa over KLM on search
       | results. Anyway, great work. Keep us informed!
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Pertinent note: BonBook doesn't communicate with/use Google at
         | all. Google link is just there for result comparison.
         | 
         | BonBook has its own internal search+recommendation engine. And
         | private beta let's you actually book the flights in two clicks
         | via the checkout link. That's why you can also change/cancel
         | them with an email.
         | 
         | This is also probably why you are seeing LH > KL.. BonBook
         | doesn't yet have access to KLM inventory.
         | 
         | And haven't added non-USD currency support yet.
        
       | chirau wrote:
       | Gmail sent me back a failed mail response:
       | 
       | ''' Address not found Your message wasn't delivered to
       | test@bonbook.co because the address couldn't be found, or is
       | unable to receive mail. '''
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Yes, test@bonbook.co is not valid for booking. And private beta
         | requires onboarding.
         | 
         | The inbox simulator provides high-level functionality of the
         | beta without access.
        
       | dddw wrote:
       | > No cheap carriers by design Why no love for the frugal ?
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Different mindset.
         | 
         | BonBook is targeted at travelers solving logistics problems who
         | make lots of repeatable decisions and fly often (eg. need to be
         | in X at Y).
         | 
         | No saying what can be done with time.
        
           | matt3D wrote:
           | While that's a good point, I think it would be wise for them
           | to incorporate budget airlines if they are looking at the
           | European market.
           | 
           | There are so many routes that are served exclusively by
           | budget airlines.
        
             | themagyar wrote:
             | Noted re the EU. Though there's another side to it as well.
             | 
             | BonBook does more than just booking (eg. one-email changes)
             | and many budget airlines make this difficult with their
             | restrictive fare rules.
        
         | namdnay wrote:
         | They're probably not distributed by whatever GDS API the app is
         | using
        
           | themagyar wrote:
           | Beta (and sim) intentionally does not search them.
        
       | genericspammer wrote:
       | Really cool and useful, how long have you worked on this?
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Thanks. Built this sim in a few days. Iterating the beta since
         | summer.
        
       | porridgeraisin wrote:
       | This is nice. How do we choose currency?
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Email sim doesn't have this (can't actually buy tickets).
         | 
         | And haven't built out currency support for the beta yet but its
         | on the list.
        
           | porridgeraisin wrote:
           | Great, thanks
        
       | dankwizard wrote:
       | Is this US only? Nothing is working for me in Australia
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | The email sim doesn't allow booking but should still work to
         | demo functionality. And it's not geo-limited. What are you
         | seeing?
        
           | zacmps wrote:
           | For me the demo pulled up flights, but in USD, I'd need it to
           | be localised to be useful.
           | 
           | Airlines also tend to present different prices for different
           | locations/currencies so I doubt this would be as simple as a
           | UI change (though that would still go a long way!).
        
             | themagyar wrote:
             | Yes, the demo doesn't localize results. And Beta doesn't
             | have currency support just yet but it's on the list.
             | 
             | Beyond the price differences, airlines also grant scoped
             | 'ticketing authority' in jurisdictions (eg. can only sell
             | these tickets in EU or US+Canada etc).
        
               | maeil wrote:
               | How is this enforced? Purely IP-based? Sounds like we now
               | need a VPN when buying tickets.
        
               | Ylpertnodi wrote:
               | >Sounds like we now need a VPN when buying tickets.
               | 
               | Frame 6: You guys are buying tickets _without_ a vpn?
        
           | ragazzina wrote:
           | I personally see "Hi there, it looks like the internet
           | dropped the ball somewhere. Please try your request again.".
        
             | themagyar wrote:
             | Yes, the internet did in fact drop the ball. Fix is live.
        
       | 3np wrote:
       | Sounds super useful!
       | 
       | Feature request: Cryptocurrency available as a payment option.
       | The payment part is a major painpoint in flight reservations.
       | Would be happy to help with integrating if of interest.
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Yes, its on the roadmap. Zooming out, crypto gets super
         | interesting in terms of industry dynamics.
         | 
         | If you shoot a note to the contact email, will take a look.
        
       | drewrbaker wrote:
       | Would love to be able to have this buy my the flight at an
       | optimal purchase time. Like I say "LAX to JFK for Jan 10th to Jan
       | 15th, between $400 and $600" and it will wait until that is seen
       | and then buy for me. That would be a real new feature.
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Calling it 'scheduled booking'. It's on the roadmap :)
        
         | r0fl wrote:
         | You can set up alerts using Google flights that will email you
         | when prices change
         | 
         | I save thousands using this feature each year
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | I like that feature! But now I'm wondering if Google is
           | selling that data back to airlines.
        
         | evan_ wrote:
         | why would you ever set a minimum price? If you're looking for a
         | certain service level just have it look for that. Otherwise I'd
         | be worried you'd miss out on a flight that fits all your
         | criteria but costs $385 or something
        
       | padolsey wrote:
       | I imagine this is a much harder problem than meets the eye. Even
       | for my own travel, there are like a dozen things I'm trying to
       | optimize for. Time, money, seat, travel to/from airport (traffic,
       | train cost, taxi pickup/dropoff ease), lounge quality, layover
       | length or complexity vs cost calculus, loyalty program, airport
       | navigation, airport amenities, flight hospitality quality etc.
       | etc.
       | 
       | When an AI can take into account all these subtleties and work
       | reliably then yeh, I'd give it a go. But for now I'm kinda ~ok
       | with the time cost of finding a non-rubbish flight.
       | 
       | I guess this is where 'travel agents' once used to shine.
       | 
       | Also: I want to be _absolutely_ certain the flight was booked --
       | that nothing was dropped, that no weird API failed to callback,
       | that no letter was dropped from my name, that no silly email
       | parser thought I meant London, Ontario, Canada.
       | 
       | Ps. Cool demo!
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Thanks. Definitely more complicate than originally imagined.
         | 
         | A lot of this can be done automatically with time (eg, already
         | built an auto-seat algo), but there is a reason the beta is
         | focused on frequent fliers solving logistics problems and
         | making repeatable decisions :) That said, think you'll be
         | surprised by how well it optimizes already.
         | 
         | During beta onboarding, you make an account with all travel
         | info (no need to parse this). Travelers also confirm their
         | booking before purchase ("checkout" links to a page with all
         | flight info in a lot more detail instead of 'access' link). And
         | BonBook sends a confirmation email post-booking (required by
         | federal regs).
        
         | bux93 wrote:
         | Not to mention cabin luggage allowances (as well as the
         | likelihood they will be honored and you won't be checking your
         | cabin luggage at the gate, or stowing your bag in row 45 when
         | you're in row 9). Even finding the (cabin/checked) luggage
         | allowances on an airline's website can be a task for AI.
        
         | Y_Y wrote:
         | I was very to booking a flight to SJO instead of SJC. The
         | interface just said "San Jose" so it looked fine. Might have
         | been nice to go to Costa Rica instead.
        
           | themagyar wrote:
           | Checkout link in beta provides details. But you can request
           | both :)
        
         | TeMPOraL wrote:
         | > _I guess this is where 'travel agents' once used to shine._
         | 
         | Score one for self-service software "improving lives" and
         | "increasing productivity" by allowing everyone to do the job
         | that would previously be done much more efficiently by
         | dedicated specialists :).
         | 
         | Still, reading that:
         | 
         | > _Even for my own travel, there are like a dozen things I 'm
         | trying to optimize for. Time, money, seat, travel to/from
         | airport (traffic, train cost, taxi pickup/dropoff ease), lounge
         | quality, layover length or complexity vs cost calculus, loyalty
         | program, airport navigation, airport amenities, flight
         | hospitality quality etc. etc._
         | 
         | I envy your dedication. Halfway through reading this list, I
         | already feel like going by a train instead. I can't imagine
         | doing it myself without some specialized software; I'd lose my
         | mind trying to do it with the normal travel/accommodation
         | search and booking websites.
         | 
         | > _Also: I want to be _absolutely_ certain the flight was
         | booked -- that nothing was dropped, that no weird API failed to
         | callback, that no letter was dropped from my name, that no
         | silly email parser thought I meant London, Ontario, Canada._
         | 
         | Very much this. It's my main concern here, too. I need live
         | feedback on every input at every step throughout the process,
         | because I don't trust software to not screw this up.
        
         | RaftPeople wrote:
         | > _I imagine this is a much harder problem than meets the eye.
         | Even for my own travel, there are like a dozen things I 'm
         | trying to optimize for._
         | 
         | But if you created "profiles" of how you might search with
         | various weight settings, it seems like it could get reasonably
         | close without having to re-enter all of the details each time.
        
       | lastofthemojito wrote:
       | Seems like a neat idea but I just tried 4 times and got the same
       | response every time:
       | 
       | > Hi there, I couldn't find any flights for your request. Please
       | try again.
       | 
       | > -BonBook
       | 
       | I was trying input like "Find me a flight from BWI to PWM
       | December 27 to January 1".
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | We had a bug with one of our external provides earier this
         | morning, but its now resolved.
        
       | theqwxas wrote:
       | I am not sure about the US market, but Skyscanner [1] works great
       | in Europe, I wonder how this is different. Besides from being
       | structured as an email, it offers quite similar functionality of
       | finding optimal flights (in some sense of optimal). It may just
       | be me, but I am definitely misunderstanding the inbox metaphor.
       | Why is it an inbox? Why is there emphasis on _one email_? I don't
       | book flights through email -- I go on an airline's website to
       | book.
       | 
       | For now it seems to be always responding with "Hi there, I
       | couldn't find any flights for your request. Please try again.", I
       | could not test it out. Unless this is a demo version, and is
       | working as expected.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.skyscanner.net/
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | The beta is email-based booking, changes and more. The demo
         | simulates the search experience via email.
        
         | pomian wrote:
         | I get results everytime. Maybe not the cheapest. But it's
         | something, and it's fast... Very fast. (Compared to going to a
         | website.) With a very simple sentence full of acronyms that we
         | all use buy now, it is a fun experimental tool. (Then clicking
         | through the Google link, you can actually continue and book.)
         | But, I agree, Skyscanner is awesome.
        
           | themagyar wrote:
           | Beta turns booking into two clicks.
        
       | prmoustache wrote:
       | Hi there, I couldn't find any flights for your request. Please
       | try again.
       | 
       | Cross checking with skyscanner there are indeed no flight in the
       | morning I asked, but there are in the afternoon, maybe propose
       | alternatives with nearby airports and/or timeslots when there are
       | no flight meeting requirements?
        
         | hinach4n wrote:
         | Getting the same results, here is my query: "Find me a flight
         | for the 10th, 11th or the 12th from BKK to London, ideally
         | heathrow."
        
           | themagyar wrote:
           | Can't handle multi-date (yet).
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | Yes, this is a bit more complicated but on the roadmap. Great
         | suggestion.
        
       | TripleChecker wrote:
       | 'Yes. BonBook is live in private beta and can do a whole lot more
       | than just find flights. Click here to request access.' - why keep
       | it a secret? What else can it do? :)
        
       | themagyar wrote:
       | Hi HN: Looks like LLM API calls started being rejected. Working
       | on a solution...
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | UPDATE: We're back!
        
       | freeone3000 wrote:
       | I told it to give me a direct flight and all of its flights have
       | an Atlanta layover. It also ignored my seat pitch request, my
       | checked bags request, and gave me only WestJet flights when Air
       | Canada flights are cheaper.
       | 
       | Is this a frontend to google flights? Sabre integration might get
       | you the info you need to do these queries.
        
         | themagyar wrote:
         | The sim has limited ability to make it lightweight, free from
         | signup and responsive in ~15 seconds.
         | 
         | Beta is much more capable.
         | 
         | GFlights is not used, link is there for comparison.
        
       | ishtanbul wrote:
       | It would be great if i could chat with chatgpt and it could book
       | it for me, like a travel agent
        
       | crro wrote:
       | Super cool! Are you using an API for travel or scraping the
       | flights from a website?
        
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       (page generated 2024-12-04 23:01 UTC)