[HN Gopher] The world of Dante's Divine Comedy
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       The world of Dante's Divine Comedy
        
       Author : lermontov
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2024-12-02 18:44 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lithub.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lithub.com)
        
       | liontwist wrote:
       | > Dante is clearly writing in the expectation that his intended
       | audience of learned men will know these references and understand
       | their relevance,
       | 
       | We just replaced the Bible and Homeric texts with Star Wars and
       | marvel. Everybody at the time would know the biblical allusions
       | even if they were illiterate.
       | 
       | > many conditions that nowadays are routinely cured or prevented
       | would have been inevitably fatal; not all of the souls in the
       | Comedy who died in their thirties and forties
       | 
       | Are they confusing average lifespan for typical lifespan? Isn't
       | this contradicted by the later paragraph in the same article?
        
         | yCombLinks wrote:
         | I don't see that error being made. What makes you think that?
         | Tons of people died in their 30s and 40s from curable illnesses
         | before modern medicine. Life expectancy of people that reached
         | adulthood was still under 50 during that time period.
        
           | zusammen wrote:
           | It was wildly variable. Nomads actually had higher life
           | expectancies, and were taller, than most agrarian people.
           | 
           | A Neolithic person who made it to 20 had a good chance of
           | making it into his 50s or 60s, but a serf's odds weren't
           | great and a day laborer's were near zero.
        
       | Almondsetat wrote:
       | An often overlooked fact of the Comedy, is that it actually makes
       | some novel theological arguments and sometimes puts itself in
       | contrast withe Church. This goes agains the common knowledge that
       | in the "Dark Ages" the Church was tyrannical and oppressive. In
       | fact, the Church of the Middle Ages had an extraordinary
       | tolerance and interest towards discussions, criticism, and
       | contradictions. Counter-intuitively, the later Church of a more
       | "enlightened" age began turning into the intolerant regime we all
       | know about
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | >Counter-intuitively,
         | 
         | or intuitively, it is when you start to lose influence and
         | power that you become more crazy and aggressive about
         | maintaining what you have, like the truism that really tough
         | guys don't act all macho, a truly dominant church does not mind
         | the small theological disputations.
        
         | riquito wrote:
         | ... Dante was exiled from the Pope and, if captured, the order
         | was to burn him at the stake                   Alighieri Dante
         | e condannato per baratteria, frode, falsita, dolo, malizia,
         | inique pratiche estortive, proventi illeciti, pederastia, e lo
         | si condanna a 5000 fiorini di multa, interdizione perpetua dai
         | pubblici uffici, esilio perpetuo (in contumacia), e se lo si
         | prende, al rogo, cosi che muoia                  (Libro del
         | chiodo - Archivio di Stato di Firenze - 10 marzo 1302)
        
           | Almondsetat wrote:
           | This was a political exile because his side lost and he was
           | politically active. Very common everywhere and doesn't refute
           | my post
        
             | Izikiel43 wrote:
             | Everything except pederasty seems political, that one seems
             | iffy
        
           | gattilorenz wrote:
           | This sentence is coming from podesta Cante de' Gabrielli da
           | Gubbio, i.e. the equivalent of the city's government, not
           | from the Pope or a religious authority.
        
       | rpastuszak wrote:
       | If you're interested in Divine Comedy here's one I cannot
       | recommend enough:
       | 
       | Walking with Dante by Mark Scarbrough:
       | https://walkingwithdante.captivate.fm
       | 
       | It's slow and immensely comprehensive, but also very accessible
       | and so much fun! His love for the subject and enthusiasm are
       | contagious.
       | 
       | Sharing this because thanks to HN I learned about some of my
       | other favourite podcasts: Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur
       | and The History of Rome by Marc Duncan. I finished THoR twice and
       | I listen to Isaac's podcast every week. I keep coming back to
       | Dante.
        
       | 082349872349872 wrote:
       | Dante did make the 1st circle sound like a far more interesting
       | destination than any unending praise-singing up above.
        
         | gmoot wrote:
         | If you are comparing Inferno to Paradiso, then this is a poor
         | summary of it.
        
           | greenie_beans wrote:
           | to those of us who are still stuck in purgatorio, the circle
           | with all the virtuous doesn't sound like a bad spot.
        
         | benatkin wrote:
         | Indeed, and without saying it outright. Show, don't tell.
        
         | optimalsolver wrote:
         | Well that's what happens when you exclude every interesting
         | historical person from Paradise.
         | 
         | Eternity in heaven with a bunch of joyless saints and martyrs
         | just sounds like an additional circle of hell.
         | 
         | Reminds me of this post:
         | 
         | https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/qZJBighPrnv9bSqTZ/31-laws-of...
         | 
         | >Beware of packing your Utopia with things you think people
         | should do that aren't actually fun. Again, consider Christian
         | Heaven: singing hymns doesn't sound like loads of endless fun,
         | but you're supposed to enjoy praying, so no one can point this
         | out.
        
           | graemep wrote:
           | That is a straw man heaven. Its supposed to be indescribable
           | and the hymn singing a metaphor for an aspect of it.
        
           | Izikiel43 wrote:
           | Reminds me of the good place show.
        
       | GJim wrote:
       | _Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch 'intrate_
       | 
       | Dante's words on the gates to hell; almost always translated as
       | "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here".
       | 
       | However, Clive James (yes, that Clive James), translated it much
       | better as:
       | 
       | "Forget your hopes. They are what brought you here."
       | 
       | An utterly unforgettable bloke to all those who met him:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_James
        
         | qsort wrote:
         | It's an interesting translation but it's adding a layer that
         | most certainly wasn't there.
         | 
         | The original almost literally translates to the most common
         | English translation:
         | 
         | Lasciate = leave behind
         | 
         | ogne = every
         | 
         | speranza = hope
         | 
         | voi = you
         | 
         | ch' = who
         | 
         | intrate = enter
        
       | acheron wrote:
       | Le cose ti fier conte quando noi fermerem li nostri passi su la
       | trista riviera d'Acheronte.
        
       | RyJones wrote:
       | I traded wicker.com for a 1544 edition of La Comedia.
        
         | habosa wrote:
         | Ok I need to hear the full version of this story.
        
           | RyJones wrote:
           | I loved the Dead Milkmen. I bought the wicker.com domain for
           | reasons. The guy who does the thing wanted this to be the way
           | his wife wanted it to be
        
             | joloooo wrote:
             | This introduced more questions than answers when Dead
             | Milkmen entered the scene.
        
       | samcgraw wrote:
       | Have been going through The Divine Comedy this year as a part of
       | https://100daysofdante.com, cannot recommend enough!
        
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       (page generated 2024-12-02 23:00 UTC)