[HN Gopher] Murderbot, she wrote
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Murderbot, she wrote
        
       Author : lastdong
       Score  : 134 points
       Date   : 2024-11-27 10:38 UTC (5 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wired.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.com)
        
       | ajford wrote:
       | One of my favorite series in the last few years. The tech side of
       | things are believable enough (at least compared to the usual
       | handwavy nature of sci-fi books) and now I understand why, as it
       | seems Wells has a history in IT!
       | 
       | I'm struggling to not gush about this book and trying to avoid
       | spoilers, but if you like a good sci-fi action/adventure book
       | with a strong lean towards a journey of self discover it's really
       | worth a read.
        
         | CBLT wrote:
         | Seconded - I enjoyed the audiobooks for Murderbot by Graphic
         | Audio. I originally found them on a torrent tracker when I was
         | searching for something else, and after enjoying the free trial
         | I bought the series through Graphic Audio's website.
        
           | ZeroGravitas wrote:
           | I listened to the version narrated by Kevin R Free, which I
           | enjoyed. It was my first experience with audiobooks so I
           | don't have much to compare but I did read some reviews of the
           | Graphic Audio versions which suggested they were not
           | considered good by some listeners, even those that liked
           | other productions from the same source.
        
         | technothrasher wrote:
         | I enjoyed the series for a while. But it was around about the
         | detective mystery story one that I got bored and wandered off
         | to read the Bobiverse books by Dennis Taylor.
        
           | imzadi wrote:
           | Bobiverse is great but the latest book is too much like the
           | Expeditionary Force books without Skippy.
        
         | mmaunder wrote:
         | Thanks will do. A colleague also loves the series.
        
         | moh_maya wrote:
         | I echo this. If you liked murderbot, you might also like the
         | Battleship Chronicles series by L. Claire (1), and ofcourse,
         | the Imperial Radh series by Ann Leickie (2), and bobiverse,
         | mentioned below, by Dennis Taylor (3), among others..
         | 
         | (1) https://www.goodreads.com/series/391892-the-battleship-
         | chron...
         | 
         | (2) https://www.goodreads.com/series/113751-imperial-radch
         | 
         | (3) https://www.goodreads.com/series/192752-bobiverse
        
           | VyseofArcadia wrote:
           | Seconding the Imperial Radch series, which has a similar "not
           | exactly human" perspective.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | I read the first three books of the Imperial Radh (Ancillary
           | Justice) series and for all of the love they get online I
           | found them rather dull. There's this fairly dramatic collapse
           | of a galaxy spanning empire happening in the background while
           | the protagonist frets over the level of offense she might
           | cause at the tea party if she chooses to wear the more
           | scandalous gloves. The last book gets a bit more into the
           | fractured psyche of the ruler, but even that gets shoved in
           | the background far more than you would expect so the
           | protagonist can worry about how she might hurt the feelings
           | of the local planetary governor if she doesn't show up for
           | his garden party.
           | 
           | The protagonist is basically a disconnected Borg drone,
           | although in their universe the drones are left with a bit
           | more autonomy than the Star Trek equivalents, but because the
           | protagonist is disconnected it doesn't matter nearly as much
           | as you would expect.
           | 
           | If you're interested in a big space opera about an empire
           | falling apart I found the Collapsing Empire series by John
           | Scalzi to be much more engaging.
        
             | jemmyw wrote:
             | I quite liked the focus on minutiae while the bigger events
             | were happening in the background. The third book even
             | discussed it - we live or die today after this battle, but
             | if we live then we still need to do the staff rota. It gave
             | a little sense of realism that made the larger events more
             | relatable.
        
             | finnh wrote:
             | Definitely don't read the most recent one, Translation
             | Space. It's some very bad "I like you but I don't know how
             | to say it!" YA-vein tropes and the climactic scene is,
             | essentially, people walking around a circular hallway a
             | couple times.
             | 
             | It was so bad it caused me to re-read the original three,
             | and I realized that only the first was one was any good.
        
             | msabalau wrote:
             | As a matter of taste, fair enough.
             | 
             | But having recently read about all etiquette concerns of
             | the Japanese admirals doing their life or death struggles
             | during WWII, it hardly seems unrealistic.
             | 
             | For a lot of people, seeing people navigate multiple
             | military/social/political spheres is part of the appeal of
             | imperial fiction.
        
       | Blackthorn wrote:
       | If you like Murderbot, you owe yourself to check out her other
       | series, The Cloud Roads. Absolutely fantastic.
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | Thanks for the recommendation!
        
         | imzadi wrote:
         | Another good one is Service Model by Adrian Tchaikovsky
         | 
         | Also, I feel like if I am recommending something I have to
         | recommend Dungeon Crawler Carl, which is my current obsession.
         | I've read all the books multiple times in multiple formats, but
         | it's not much like Murderbot.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | i am reading service model right now with our scifi book
           | club. this book needs a trigger warning for programmers.
           | reading it feels like work because i am constantly analyzing
           | what coding faults lead to the choices the robots are making.
        
           | georgeecollins wrote:
           | Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky is also very good imo.
        
             | moomin wrote:
             | Honestly that's the book I recommend to anyone who thinks
             | Heinlein, Asimov and Niven are all there is to good sci-fi.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | See also Ann Leckie's Ancillary books (5)
        
         | blacksmith_tb wrote:
         | I found the Ile-Rien books more fun, esp. Death of the
         | Necromancer, a nice Francophile steampunk vibe.
         | 
         | I like Murderbot ok, though it's beginning to feel a little
         | like a shaggy dog joke at this point.
        
         | noitpmeder wrote:
         | Her newer novel "Witch King" is also pretty good! Nominated for
         | (but didn't win) the 2024 Hugo. Just finished it last week.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | When I tried to answer the question, "what did you do with your
         | time while you were laid off?" Part of that answer was "read
         | about forty books" of which about twenty were Wells'
         | 
         | 5 Ile Rien, 7 Cloud Roads, 2 Emilie, Witch King, plus rereading
         | Murderbot
        
           | meonkeys wrote:
           | Which were your favorites?
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | I'm curious if Witch King will be standalone or not. That
             | might change my answer. The Ile Rien ones were good, the
             | Emilie ones would make good YA fare. The Raksura books are
             | told by a nonhuman culture, but things get very dark at
             | some points. I'd say that one of the main characters in
             | that series is a bit of a prototype for Murderbot, and
             | another the prototype for Ship.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | I found the Il-Rien books more engaging than the Cloud Roads.
         | Especially the Fall of Il-Rien trilogy. I'm currently reading
         | the two-in-one book they released earlier this year in the Il-
         | Rien universe.
        
         | zem wrote:
         | absolutely! better than murderbot imo, especially the first two
         | books.
        
       | adamgordonbell wrote:
       | Super fun popcorn sci-fi books. I enjoyed them all.
       | Popcorn thrillers are books that are lighter in content, jam-
       | packed with entertainment value, and not too dark, and meant to
       | be read in one sitting.
        
         | noirbot wrote:
         | They reminded me a lot of a sci-fi version of the classic
         | action hero airport novel stuff like Jack Reacher or the Bourne
         | books. Just a super competent hero who generally succeeds
         | despite things being messy and chaotic.
        
           | adamgordonbell wrote:
           | Yeah, I think it's actually hard to write something that
           | quick moving and action packed.
           | 
           | It's perhaps a different skill then character development or
           | world building or prose polishing, but it's how you get these
           | books people blaze through.
           | 
           | ( Now sometimes I blaze thru something and hate it at the
           | end, but thats a different problem ... )
        
       | btown wrote:
       | https://archive.is/2024.12.02-165105/https://www.wired.com/s...
        
         | BryanLegend wrote:
         | https://archive.ph/gAC9R
         | 
         | archive.is seems to be down.
        
       | inanutshellus wrote:
       | I haven't read the stories for many years now but for some reason
       | both I and my wife assumed the bot would look female, and both of
       | us were independently surprised to learn that the protagonist was
       | cast as male in the upcoming series.
        
         | romanows wrote:
         | I think Murderbot doesn't have a gender, so it'll probably be a
         | pretty androgynous look anyway. I listened to Kevin R Free's
         | fantastic narration, so maybe I would have expected a male
         | actor, except that I do the aphantasia thing and never
         | visualize anything from books to begin with!
        
           | inanutshellus wrote:
           | Yes, the robot is not described with a gender and it needn't
           | have a gender -- or even the semblance of one -- but for
           | whatever reason my wife and I both ignored that and assigned
           | it as female, and were really really surprised many years
           | later by the casting of a dude. We didn't even talk about it
           | when reading the books. Just came up when we were both
           | surprised by the casting.
           | 
           | Kinda cool when your book-made vision shifts like that. It's
           | one of the funnest parts of reading a book before the movie
           | comes out... that sensation of /mental annexation/ that
           | happens.
           | 
           | Excited to see the show!
        
           | dartharva wrote:
           | Murderbot frequently blends into the crowd as a dude though,
           | that's a recurring theme in the series.
        
             | jghn wrote:
             | Yes, I was surprised by all the people here who had a
             | female mental picture for this reason. While obviously it
             | is genderless, my recollection was that there were plenty
             | of times where the narrative had it passing as male.
        
               | inanutshellus wrote:
               | I'll say I've only read the first ... uh... three? four?
               | novellas, and it's been many moons. I don't recall any
               | point where having a female form would've been
               | noteworthy. Not like a /Stomship Troopers/ shared shower
               | moment or anything.
               | 
               | Mainly I think we came up with that mindset immediately
               | upon reading the first novella and never updated it.
        
               | jghn wrote:
               | It's entirely possible that there's never any point where
               | "observed gender" is even implied and my mind just filled
               | in some blanks when it talks about passing for human. To
               | be honest I never gave it an ounce of thought before this
               | whole conversation.
        
             | romanows wrote:
             | I remember Murderbot working to blend in and pass as human,
             | but I don't remember it trying to pass as male or being
             | perceived as male?
        
         | EthanHeilman wrote:
         | I assumed MurderBot would not look male or female but look
         | androgynous. Additionally the merging of machine and meat would
         | result in thin limbs, likely they are going to have to do a lot
         | of CGI work in post.
         | 
         | Casting a big name actor in the role, especially a male actor
         | who tends to play tough guys, seems like a mistake. ~80% of the
         | murderbot fans I've talked to, decided they weren't watching
         | the series when they heard that casting decision. Generally the
         | take was: "if that is who they cast, they don't understand why
         | the books worked." I reserve my judgement until the series
         | comes out, actors can act and should not be cast based on
         | audiences expectations, but it does not auger well.
        
           | lukev wrote:
           | Really? My partner and I and some of our friends thought the
           | opposite. Skarsgard _can_ be tough but in many of his roles
           | he exhibits a fairly unconventional form of masculinity.
           | 
           | My expectation is that he's going to be able to play an
           | ungendered character quite well.
        
             | vundercind wrote:
             | Having never heard of this series until this HN thread, I
             | assumed from context that you meant _Bill_ Skarsgard, who
             | of course is a natural for an out-of-place somewhat-alien
             | a-touch-androgynous misfit, having played that kind of role
             | well before.
             | 
             | It turned out not to be the one I was sure you meant,
             | hahaha. "Iceman" from Generation Kill is rather a twist,
             | but of course, as mentioned, actors _are_ supposed to be
             | able to act....
        
         | joshkel wrote:
         | For what it's worth, Murderbot's "Security Consultant Rin"
         | human disguise is apparently female.
        
           | dartharva wrote:
           | No it's not.
        
             | joshkel wrote:
             | Why do you say that?
             | 
             | I don't have access to the books right now, but from what I
             | remember, Rin is referred to as she/her, and random Reddit
             | comments (https://www.reddit.com/r/murderbot/comments/118s7
             | on/comment/...) back that up.
        
               | dartharva wrote:
               | Have you read the later entries in the series?
        
               | joshkel wrote:
               | Yes. I don't remember Murderbot using the Rin disguise /
               | persona later on.
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | It's an android, not a gyndroid!
        
         | metaphor wrote:
         | I found it effortless to go along with the idea of a gender-
         | ambiguous construct antihero throughout _All Systems Red_ , but
         | trying to carry the consistency of that descriptive ambiguity
         | after a certain point in _Artificial Condition_ required way
         | too much squinting by my mind 's eye.
        
         | erganemic wrote:
         | That's interesting! My wife and I both pictured him as
         | masculine. In my case, as a cis, bi man who's honestly
         | evaluated how I play my gender, it was because a lot of the way
         | Murderbot feels about being amidst humans is IMO just dead-on
         | how a lot of men feel being amidst women?
         | 
         | Like "everyone here is a little wary of me, and I can't even
         | really blame them for it, because I just categorically am a
         | more threatening presence."
        
       | dageshi wrote:
       | I'm a bit mystified by the hype for murderbot. I read it and
       | thought it was OK but a lot of people rave about it.
       | 
       | Still not every book is for every person, it didn't connect with
       | me but it very obviously has its fans.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I felt similarly. Read what I think was the first book. Enjoyed
         | it well enough. But also didn't feel a burning need to snag
         | further books.
        
         | VyseofArcadia wrote:
         | I enjoyed the novella but also didn't feel like it did anything
         | particularly new or interesting. I think a lot of people just
         | relate to a snarky unwilling protagonist who would rather be
         | watching TV.
        
           | georgeecollins wrote:
           | >> a lot of people just relate to a snarky unwilling
           | protagonist who would rather be watching TV.
           | 
           | You put that beautifully! That is what I enjoyed about it.
        
           | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
           | I think that is a new and interesting protagonist tbh. So
           | many are heros or have to develop into heroism. It's
           | refreshing to just have someone who explicitly doesn't save
           | the world or similar stakes.
        
             | VyseofArcadia wrote:
             | Maybe the pop culture obsession is new, but the snarky,
             | reluctant protagonist is something I have seen enough to be
             | kind of tired of. Off the top of my head, Murderbot also
             | reminds me of the protagonist of _Sixteen Ways to Defend a
             | Walled City_ which I recently read.
             | 
             | If you enjoyed Murderbot, take that as a recommendation,
             | although it is less sci-fi and more historical fiction.
        
               | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
               | Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City has a protagonist
               | who is reluctant but is forced to face huge stakes,
               | namely the fall of a city at war. Murderbot is
               | interesting for more than its reluctance: the stakes are
               | distinctly different and far more about introspection and
               | self actualization.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | While I liked it for what it is, the reluctant antihero
             | isn't exactly a new concept, other than possibly in the
             | present aspect of being a semi-autistic robot/AI.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | My thought when I was reading it was that Murderbot is a
           | stand in for people on the autism spectrum. This is an
           | unusual viewpoint in literature and probably resonated with a
           | lot of people in a similar situation. I personally liked the
           | stories and will read the next installment when it comes out,
           | but found myself gravitating more towards ART than Murderbot.
           | If I had any quibbles it would be how the living people are
           | underdeveloped and sometimes no better than background
           | furniture. This naturally arises from the viewpoint of the
           | protagonist, but can be somewhat annoying to the reader.
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | It seems to have a lot of resonance with trans people too.
             | I'm autistic but there's enough overlap between the two
             | groups that I've noticed how people in both communities
             | react to the series.
        
         | georgeecollins wrote:
         | It's the kind of book(s) that are better if they sneak up on
         | you. The whole point is that murderbot wants to be left alone
         | (to watch soap operas!) but keeps having to wrestle with being
         | a person in often particularly difficult and confusing
         | circumstances. The delight is that it can be wry and
         | insightful.
         | 
         | If someone tells you it is going to have big messages I could
         | see how it would be disappointing.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | I listened to the GraphicAudio adaptation of the series and
         | couldn't keep it down. It's genuinely great!
         | 
         | The Murderbot series is specifically the kind of literature
         | that's meant for serialized A/V adaptation in my opinion; but
         | just as a novel of course it won't compete with the kinds of
         | Gibson, Stephenson, Egan or even Weir.
        
         | imzadi wrote:
         | A lot of the people I see recommending it, including myself,
         | listened to the audiobook. I think Kevin R Free really brings
         | it alive.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | Same. It was ok. Kind of ended before it got going. Definitely
         | not good enough to make me want to read more.
        
         | mananaysiempre wrote:
         | _Murderbot_ is indeed somewhere between OK and good--personally
         | I'm leaning towards good, but I wouldn't compare it to a
         | masterclass in short-form writing (like anything by Sheckley)
         | or a longer piece you could debate for hours afterwards (like
         | _A Memory Called Empire_ , to give a recent example). It
         | doesn't try to be mind-numbingly flashy, it doesn't
         | proselytize, it just brings you to alien vistas to meditate on
         | the nature of universal human experience. That is to say, it
         | belongs to a good, storied strain of SF that's quite rare
         | amongst its modern specimens.
         | 
         | I'd rave about that.
        
           | finnh wrote:
           | A Memory Called Empire was so good! Seems like nobody has
           | heard of it.
        
             | titanomachy wrote:
             | It won the Hugo and was shortlisted for the Nebula, so at
             | least some people have heard of it. Those are the two most
             | famous sci-fi awards. Sometimes I look at their shortlists
             | for ideas on what to read next.
        
             | metaphor wrote:
             | Teixcalaan earned two Hugos for Weller in short order; of
             | course people have heard of it.
             | 
             | However, it shouldn't be surprising that it's little known
             | to the type of crowd that Murderbot Diaries is likely to
             | appeal to...perhaps even more so when audiobook is the
             | preferred consumption format for such short novellas as
             | many commenters here have expressed.
        
           | metaphor wrote:
           | If it's a masterclass in anything, it's proven to be a low-
           | risk, revenue-generating productization formula with options
           | that I've noticed Tor has leaned heavily into for roughly the
           | past decade, e.g. Seanan McGuire, Becky Chambers, Ursula
           | Vernon, Nghi Vo.
        
         | jemmyw wrote:
         | I agree, it was OK. I was hoping, based on the reviews and
         | hype, that the books would be much more witty. They turned out
         | to be pretty humourless.
        
         | vundercind wrote:
         | I have found recommendations of (especially) genre novels from
         | people I don't personally know to be nearly useless. The usual
         | problem is that the work is just _OK_ but gets talked up like
         | it 's great. Sometimes, it's outright bad.
         | 
         | I've got enough past actually-greats--genre and otherwise--to
         | catch up on, I don't need 100 "OMG it's _so_ good! " comments
         | from a dozen sites steering me toward a newer book that turns
         | out to be pretty damn mediocre. That's been the outcome often
         | enough that I just have to ignore those kinds of comments, no
         | matter how frequently-encountered and how unanswered by
         | credible-seeming naysayers they go--those aspects, maddeningly,
         | don't seem to correlate with them being more likely to be good
         | advice on what to read next.
         | 
         | IDK what the deal is, though I suspect it's actually multiple
         | forms of difference in judgement of fiction and expectations
         | for how one frames a recommendation, which have different
         | causes but the same outcome.
         | 
         | Like, I basically need a top-ten in-genre books and a top-ten
         | (dealer's choice) works outside that genre in any medium from
         | someone recommending a book, to even begin to judge if what I'm
         | going to find on the other side of the recommendation is
         | probably going to at least be _fairly_ good. A bare
         | recommendation, no matter how glowing, carries no signal. Let
         | me know what _else_ you think is good, and I can start to get
         | an idea of whether we 're in alignment, because otherwise
         | there's a decent chance we very much are not.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | I agree. When I first used to go to bookstores, the "highly
           | recommended!" books tended to be star wars type books.
           | 
           | Even author recommendations are hit or miss.
           | 
           | I loved well's murderbot series. I tried her other books
           | (Raksura) but it wasn't as fun.
           | 
           | I found American Gods to be highly praised, and though it was
           | hard to get through. Gaiman's short story "How to talk to
           | girls at parties" was fun though.
           | 
           | https://neilgaiman.com/Cool_Stuff/Short_Stories/How_To_Talk_.
           | ..
           | 
           | I liked Neal Stephenson's early books like snowcrash or the
           | diamond age, but the baroque cycle lost my trust.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | I liked it and read the first couple of installments, but it's
         | a bit of a one trick pony.
        
       | 0x457 wrote:
       | Love that series.
        
       | malshe wrote:
       | I loved Murderbot series and I have HN to thank for it. So many
       | wonderful book recommendations come from HN comments!
        
       | baldeagle wrote:
       | The Texas A&M sci-fi convention mentioned in the article is
       | coming up in early February. You can bounce over to Cushing
       | library to check out the collection, including a copy of
       | Fahrenheit 451 in an asbestos zipper case (obviously, you can't
       | check that one out of it's special container).
       | 
       | https://www.aggiecon.net/
        
       | dartharva wrote:
       | For anyone interested in the Murderbot series I will
       | wholeheartedly recommend the GraphicAudio adaptation:
       | https://www.graphicaudiointernational.net/our-productions/se...
       | 
       | David Cui Cui is a fantastic narrator and shines in his
       | performance as Murderbot.
        
       | meonkeys wrote:
       | Lovely series! Wells is awesome.
       | 
       | How does Wired continue to thrive without a paywall? (please I
       | hope I didn't just jinx it) (huh, maybe there _is_ a paywall and
       | I just haven 't hit it yet? I just noticed an archive.is and
       | archive.ph links in other comments)
        
       | hersko wrote:
       | This series reminded me about my favorite HFY short story of all
       | time: ABBY514
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/c0ojkr/oc_abby514/
        
       | bithead wrote:
       | "To shreds, you say"
        
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