[HN Gopher] Handwriting but not typewriting leads to widespread ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Handwriting but not typewriting leads to widespread connectivity in
       brain
        
       Author : cryptozeus
       Score  : 125 points
       Date   : 2024-12-01 13:26 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.openread.academy)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.openread.academy)
        
       | throwaway519 wrote:
       | The paper:
       | https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10....
       | 
       | DOI: doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.1219945
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | So the study's findings only hold where typewriting means
         | typing "the presented word using the right index finger on the
         | keyboard," _i.e._ like a pigeon.
         | 
         | It looks like this was done because while handwriting is a
         | unihemispheral activity, typing with both hands is not. But it
         | trashes the results from a practical perspective.
        
           | DennisP wrote:
           | Which makes me wonder whether typing with both hands, hence
           | using both hemispheres, actually results in _more_ widespread
           | connectivity in the brain.
        
         | MiguelX413 wrote:
         | Thank you for presented the DOI too.
        
       | thenipper wrote:
       | Interesting! Explains that even though I've used a laptop since
       | 1992 to do school work because of my learning
       | disabilities(Dysgraphia, mid-line problems, poor fine motor
       | control) I still prefer to hand write my notes. Even if I never
       | read them I noticed that just the act of doing them helps me
       | remember things. I might not remember the source but I can
       | remember the act of note taking. I've noticed the same thing with
       | reading as well.
        
         | jumping_frog wrote:
         | Multimodality reinforces each other. Action, speech, listening,
         | all helping to let us understand a subject better.
        
           | HPsquared wrote:
           | This is why I think AI chatbots have so much potential for
           | education. Every student can have extended dialogue about the
           | topic and really exercise those neurons.
        
             | breakfastduck wrote:
             | I think the widespread use of that for education would have
             | precisely the opposite outcome that you'd want.
             | 
             | Nothing sinks in to anyones brain because they're not
             | actually talking about it and they don't need to actually
             | learn it for any reason in school because they can just ask
             | the chatbot again at any moment.
        
               | woleium wrote:
               | and that is a problem because?
               | 
               | i remember when maths teachers would scold me for not
               | knowing my multiplication tables "are you going to carry
               | a calculator around with you every day?" they would say
               | when seeing me use one. Turns out i do.
        
               | latexr wrote:
               | That is such a tired, boring, selective memory meme. Did
               | you not use a calculator later on in your education, say
               | high school, for stuff like graphing and helping with
               | equations? Do you not think educators in primary school
               | teaching basic arithmetic knew about that?
               | 
               | All our maths education is based on lies which are
               | progressively disclosed. You're told we can't go below
               | zero, that numbers are integers, that you can't take the
               | square root of a negative number... And slowly are
               | introduced to all those concepts building on what you
               | learned before.
               | 
               | And yet this meme of "hur dur, mah teachers saids I'd
               | haves no calculators on me but I use a phone all the
               | time, epic fail" prevails instead of pondering for two
               | seconds that maybe your teacher was giving a cookie-
               | cutter argument that a literal child could comprehend but
               | be unable to refute so they could continue with the damn
               | lesson.
               | 
               | And as if people use calculators that often. They don't.
               | Yet being able to do some basic arithmetic is useful in
               | such simple areas as shopping, to make more informed
               | decisions in a world that is constantly trying to trick
               | you.
        
               | squigz wrote:
               | Technological progress requires that we adapt education
               | at the same time. We can still teach the ability to
               | reason through problems when necessary, but still utilize
               | technology when useful
        
               | andrepd wrote:
               | If there is a good reason to, yes. To chase the latest
               | trends (which is what all this EduLLM talk is all about)
               | then definitely not.
        
               | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
               | I wonder if having offloaded arithmetic to calculators
               | has led to a society that can't do math in their head
               | well enough to make good choices at the supermarket or in
               | other daily situations where simple math would be useful
               | but the situation is too casual to pull out your
               | calculator.
               | 
               | But the impact of that is tiny compared to the prospect
               | of future generations offloading their general ideation
               | and critical thinking to machines instead of just number
               | crunching.
        
               | zero-sharp wrote:
               | People internalize conversations and the thought
               | processes that went into them. If I have a conversation
               | with somebody, I often walk away remembering and
               | understanding what somebody else said and why they said
               | it. And these memories get used in future interactions.
               | So just like the offloading of arithmetic likely resulted
               | in people not being able to perform mental math, what
               | would be the result of conversing with an AI that has
               | hallucination/logical issues (a lesser intelligence)?
               | Isn't it reasonable to guess that this will result in
               | diminished reasoning?
        
               | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
               | I hadn't considered that. If that's the case then we
               | should hope people simply copy and paste the output
               | rather than try to engage with it or take it seriously.
               | 
               | Though in more practical economic terms, perhaps what
               | we're being trained for is a future in which the typical
               | worker has a low paying job sanity checking AI output
               | rather than a higher paying job doing the work themself.
        
               | HPsquared wrote:
               | That would not be a side effect of the dialogue, but from
               | awareness of the wider world.
        
             | onemoresoop wrote:
             | I think AI chatbots could help but only if that is an
             | additional modality to learn and doesn't trump all the
             | classical ones becoming the main mode. That would be
             | disastrous to learning IMO, nothing will stick because
             | users will internalize they could ask the bot to reason it
             | for them, something like "why remember all that trivia when
             | you could just google it".
        
       | squigz wrote:
       | > The experiment comprised a total of 30 trials, where each word
       | appeared in two different conditions, presented in a randomized
       | order. For each trial, participants were instructed to either (a)
       | write in cursive with their right hand the presented word with a
       | digital pen directly on the screen, or (b) type the presented
       | word using the right index finger on the keyboard. Before each
       | trial, the instruction write or type appeared before one of the
       | target words appeared, and the participants were given 25 s to
       | either write by hand or type the word multiple times, separated
       | by a space. EEG data were recorded only during the first 5 s of
       | each trial. To prevent artifacts produced by head and eye
       | movements caused by shifting gaze between the screen and the
       | keyboard, typed words did not appear on the screen while the
       | participant was typewriting. The writings produced by the
       | participants (see Figure 1 for example) were stored for offline
       | analyses.
       | 
       | I wonder what the effect would be when considering:
       | 
       | a) proficiency to write in cursive
       | 
       | b) touch typing ability
        
         | jt2190 wrote:
         | Yes I would think that it would be difficult to distinguish
         | between brain activity caused by learning a subject and brain
         | activity caused by learning to write cursive.
        
       | dgan wrote:
       | Linking this thread, because it already crossed my mind so many
       | times https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29863108
        
         | jodrellblank wrote:
         | Since that thread, did you try tablets and eInk/ePaper devices?
        
       | dcow wrote:
       | Could a factor be that most people primarily typewrite now so
       | it's second nature muscle memory but the handwriting task
       | requires just a little extra effort? I didn't see preexisting
       | disposition factored in at all, so I'm curious.
        
         | squigz wrote:
         | I think it's actually the opposite - most people can't touch
         | type, so they spend more time and concentration trying to type,
         | which means less focus on the actual content. I would think
         | that handwriting is more muscle memory for most people, thus
         | they can focus more on what they're writing, making connections
         | to it, etc.
        
           | vishnugupta wrote:
           | I didn't read the paper but does this mean if one learns to
           | touch type then there's no difference?
        
             | squigz wrote:
             | I'm not saying that, but I think it would bear
             | consideration, which the study does not do.
        
             | base698 wrote:
             | I think the difference in pressure holding the pen or
             | pencil and the dexterity required to form letters still
             | activates way more of the brain than simple touch type
             | would.
        
           | hakanderyal wrote:
           | There aren't any information in this study about if there
           | were any touch typists. This would be an interesting variable
           | to test for.
        
             | squigz wrote:
             | The typewriting participants were explicitly not touch
             | typing - they were instructed to... type with a single
             | index finger...
             | 
             | > participants were instructed to either (a) write in
             | cursive with their right hand the presented word with a
             | digital pen directly on the screen, or (b) type the
             | presented word using the right index finger on the
             | keyboard.
        
               | _flux wrote:
               | still people who are touch typists are able to find the
               | characters faster on the keyboard than others. this
               | message is written that way to test that out, in parts
               | where it was possible.
               | 
               | however, in my case the blank keycaps did make the task a
               | bit more difficult. i would write faster in cursive, and
               | it might feel less effort.
               | 
               | also the reason was outlined:
               | 
               | > Allowing the use of (the fingers of) both hands would
               | cause many unforeseen effects on the brain, which would
               | make it hard to interpret the results.
               | 
               | btw, this post was quite frustrating to write.
        
               | droningparrot wrote:
               | That might not be enough without any assessment of the
               | subject's typing skill. Touch typists have effectively
               | memorized the keyboard layout and would need less effort
               | to find the key to type, even if limited to one finger at
               | a time
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _The typewriting participants were explicitly not touch
               | typing - they were instructed to... type with a single
               | index finger..._
               | 
               | Looks like this did this because "allowing the use of
               | (the fingers of) both hands would cause many unforeseen
               | effects on the brain, which would make it hard to
               | interpret the results," since handwriting is done with
               | one hemisphere.
               | 
               | Still weird.
        
       | hk1337 wrote:
       | I feel like this has been said before quite a bit but a lot of
       | people always make excuses about how they're the exception.
        
         | HPsquared wrote:
         | My the exception?
        
           | hk1337 wrote:
           | Oops. Thanks
        
         | danielbln wrote:
         | Or not everyone is the same (even ignoring the.. interesting
         | stud design of the paper that excluded touch typists).
         | 
         | When I would learn vocabulary in school for a secondary
         | language, the teacher would always state how this is best done
         | by writing everything by hand. I never ever saw observed that
         | benefit and always felt that to be true for me.
         | 
         | So I might be delusional, or there is something else at play
         | here.
        
       | netbioserror wrote:
       | I made a point in college of taking handwritten notes (focusing
       | on what I didn't know) and handwritten test cheat-sheets (even if
       | they weren't allowed, simply as an exercise in summarizing). It
       | helped in memorization and understanding tremendously.
        
       | bastloing wrote:
       | Takes more brain cells to handwrite. I'd be interested in brain
       | activity of qwerty vs dvorak keyboards, now there's a study
        
         | onemoresoop wrote:
         | When handwritng you use some additional brain pathways to
         | finely coordinate the hand. When typing you don't need that but
         | use a different one that learned the keyboard. I think using
         | both is good to reinforce that knowledge.
        
       | Stevvo wrote:
       | The link sends me to an empty page that wants me sign to sign up
       | to upload PDF files to an AI tool. It's not clear what this tool
       | is for, or what relation, if any, it has to the headline.
       | 
       | Flagged.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | HN's software uses the canonical URL when it finds one and in
         | this case it was bad
         | (https://www.openread.academy/paper/reading?corpusId=null).
         | We've reversed that now.
        
       | westurner wrote:
       | I tried for a few minutes to find the HN thread where somebody
       | refuted the "handwriting is better than typing" _for fact recall_
       | claim.
       | 
       | OTOH, IIRC,
       | 
       | - EEG measures brain activation. It takes more of the brain to
       | hand write than to type, and so it is unsurprising that there is
       | more activation during a writing by hand activity than during a
       | typing activity.
       | 
       | - Do brain connectivity or neural activation correspond to
       | favorable outcomes?
       | 
       | - Synaptic pruning eliminates connectivity in the brain; and that
       | is presumably advantageous.
       | 
       | - Hyperconnectivity may be regarded as a disadvantage in
       | discussions of neurodiversity. Witness recall from a network with
       | intentional hyperconnectivity; too distracted by spurious
       | activations?
       | 
       | - That's a test of dumb recall, which is a test of trivia
       | retention.
       | 
       | - Is rote memorization the pinnacle of learning? To foster
       | creative thinking and critical thinking, is trivia recall
       | optimization ideal?
       | 
       | - (Isn't it necessary to forget so much of what we've been taught
       | in order to succeed.)
       | 
       | - Is spaced repetition as or more effective than hand writing at
       | increasing recall compared to passively listening?
       | 
       | - With persons who have injury and/or disability that prevents
       | them from handwriting, do they have adaptations that enable them
       | to succeed despite "having to" type instead?
       | 
       | - We don't hand write software; though some schools teach coding
       | with pen and paper (and that somewhat reduces cheating, which
       | confounds variance in success and retention).
       | 
       | - We write tests for software; we can't efficiently automatedly
       | test software for quality and correctness unless the code is
       | typed.
       | 
       | - Does anything ever grade, confirm, reject, or validate
       | handwritten notes?
       | 
       | - Are there studies of this that measure recall after typing, and
       | then after handwriting, too?
       | 
       | Edit: A, measure, B, measure; AND: B, measure, A, measure
        
         | ElFitz wrote:
         | > I tried for a few minutes to find the HN thread where
         | somebody refuted the "handwriting is better than typing" for
         | fact recall claim.
         | 
         | You would have found it, had you written it down.
         | 
         | Kidding aside, is this the one?
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42288545
        
       | kstenerud wrote:
       | I've been taking notes in a text editor since 1994. What I found
       | was that taking notes via computer was much easier because I
       | could finally keep up with what I'm taking notes about (typing is
       | MUCH faster than writing), and could therefore spend more time
       | considering the thing I'm taking notes on, rearrange things,
       | group them, etc using simple keyboard commands.
       | 
       | My impression is that my retention went way up and I had better
       | understanding overall because I could discover the underlying
       | patterns quicker when I was spending less time and energy
       | encoding my thoughts into words.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | I am 100% the same.
         | 
         | People often claim that taking notes by hand, because it is
         | slow, forces you to interpret and condense what you are
         | learning into a more compact representation, and therefore
         | understand it better.
         | 
         | That has _never_ been the case for me -- while I 'm busy doing
         | that thinking, I missed the last 3 sentences from the lecturer,
         | and then am struggling to catch up, and when I finally figure
         | out what they're explaining again, there's no more time to
         | write it down.
         | 
         | But I can type faster than lecturers speak. And obviously you
         | don't take notes verbatim either, just the gist of a sentence.
         | Then after the seminar is over, I can go over the notes at my
         | own pace to build my understanding. Details that didn't seem
         | that relevant during the seminar, I suddenly realize are key.
         | 
         | I really don't understand why people don't talk about this
         | advantage more.
        
         | zffr wrote:
         | During college lectures my retention was highest when I didn't
         | notes at all. I found that if I took notes, most of my brain
         | power went towards capturing the content instead of actively
         | engaging with it.
         | 
         | Once I stopped taking notes, it freed up my mind to think
         | critically about the material and helped me quickly identify
         | when I was confused about something. When I was confused, I was
         | able to ask the professor about it immediately instead of
         | trying to figure it out on my own after the lecture
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | A middle ground is just to jot down a few words when
           | something is unclear, just enough to let you know what you
           | need to go back and review.
           | 
           | Not all professors want to take questions during lecture, it
           | works fine in small classes but it can be quite disruptive in
           | a large lecture class when you have a sylabus to stick to in
           | a fixed number of lecture meetings.
        
       | blargey wrote:
       | "Allowing the use of (the fingers of) both hands would cause many
       | unforeseen effects on the brain, which would make it hard to
       | interpret the results" so all participants had to "type using the
       | right index finger [only]".
       | 
       | How does one rule out the relevance of those "unforeseen effects"
       | when claiming to compare typing in general vs handwriting in
       | general? The paper only contains that one line about the matter,
       | in the "Participants" section. (also, do Norwegian university
       | students in their early twenties normally write in cursive?)
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _when claiming to compare typing in general vs handwriting in
         | general_
         | 
         | Yeah, the paper claims "whenever handwriting movements are
         | included as a learning strategy, more of the brain gets
         | stimulated, resulting in the formation of more complex neural
         | network connectivity," which is bunk given the methodology.
        
         | LocalH wrote:
         | Wow. Junk science indeed. "Unforeseen effects on the brain" so
         | you essentially test in a way that is incomparable to those who
         | are experienced typists?
         | 
         | If you're only using one finger to type, of _course_ you 're
         | using less brain activity to control that one finger, versus
         | all ten.
         | 
         | I'm unable to read the actual paper, but from the comments
         | here, it sure seems like they worked backwards from an existing
         | premise ("handwriting is better than typing for retaining
         | information") and found a way to make that "truth".
         | 
         | Edit: Missed the link to the article in the comments. Reading
         | it now.
        
           | Forge36 wrote:
           | They give a recommendation for education, but didn't measure
           | retention.
           | 
           | I agree with their premise provided students don't know how
           | to touch type (given the anecdotal amount of visual typing
           | I've seen a reason concern for students) it's also
           | interesting that it's cursive, which is being taught less.
        
         | Forge36 wrote:
         | I think it gets worse > To prevent artifacts produced by head
         | and eye movements caused by shifting gaze between the screen
         | and the keyboard, typed words did not appear on the screen
         | while the participant was typewriting.
         | 
         | So no only were typists not touch typing, they couldn't see
         | what they were typing.
         | 
         | Too many variables are changed between the two tests.
         | 
         | A) writers can see whole words vs no visual feedback B) writers
         | use their natural writing technique (2 or 3 fingers?) vs 1.
         | 
         | It'd be interesting to test typing with a single hand (using
         | words that can be entirely touch typed with one hand)
         | 
         | I'm surprised the choose not to gather that data.
         | 
         | https://repository.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2306&...
         | 
         | Is interesting in that it shows the opposite effect: improved
         | recall. It also measured velocity/speed of response. Which
         | shows writing was faster.
         | 
         | Another idea for a test: writing without ink.
        
           | ryanjshaw wrote:
           | Not disagreeing with your points here in this context, but
           | it's interesting to note that I learned touch typing on a
           | typewriter in school and I know which letters I've missed
           | when typing, and can happily copy pages of text without
           | needing to see the screen - even to correct any errors.
        
             | Forge36 wrote:
             | I wonder if that's lost with this paper's method of typing.
             | 
             | I learned on a Mac. The course material was copying from a
             | book without looking at the screen, then correcting the
             | errors. This second pass to correct mistakes is different,
             | and it's not clear that you can be removed when taking
             | notes without affecting learning.
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | > So no only were typists not touch typing, they couldn't see
           | what they were typing.
           | 
           | This is how I feel as a left hander while writing the old
           | fashioned way. I can't see what I'm writing so I get sloppy
           | really quickly, and always need paper with lines.
           | 
           | Not that this makes their methodology not totally bunk, of
           | course.
        
             | Loughla wrote:
             | Do you have any advice for helping a child who is left
             | handed and sucks at penmanship?
             | 
             | My youngest is left handed, and his writing is just trash.
             | I have no idea how to help him outside of specific left
             | handed writing tools (that I'm pretty sure don't help at
             | all).
        
               | seanmcdirmid wrote:
               | Learn to type? I never got over my penman ship problem, I
               | just learnt to type and printed all my exams in college.
               | And then it didn't matter much after school since I would
               | mostly type anyways.
               | 
               | If I had to do it over again, I would probably force
               | myself to write right handed. It should be possible to
               | get used to it, but that would really be a choice they
               | have to make for themselves.
        
               | belval wrote:
               | Not sure if it can be found online, but there is a hand
               | position trick that allows left-handed people to "drag"
               | the pencil instead of pushing which makes it much closer
               | to right-handed motions.
               | 
               | I am left-handed and my handwriting is terrible, but my
               | partner is also left-handed and her handwriting is very
               | nice but she position her hands as described above to
               | "pull", so clearly it can be done if you apply yourself.
               | 
               | She also hand writes a lot more while I am almost
               | exclusively typing these days so practice definitely
               | helps.
        
               | NRHuntoon wrote:
               | I'm left handed and had terrible penmanship as a child
               | and all through undergrad. A few things have really
               | helped me. 1. Get pens that write with low friction. As a
               | lefty you're 'pushing' the pen instead of pulling it, and
               | tools with higher friction cause the pen to tilt up in
               | your hand. I found writing with gel pens, a nice fountain
               | pen, or now I use 0.2/0.25 inking pens as my main 'daily
               | driver'. 2. Focus on a few 'problem letters' and get them
               | well sorted. I always struggled with things like 'u' and
               | 'v', '5' and 's', etc. In college I had to make these
               | work, so I spent a lot of time developing a specific
               | style for all of the problem symbols and got *really*
               | good at them. 3. Print vs cursive. I know in school they
               | make you learn cursive, but a lot of the connections
               | between letters decrease readability, and increase
               | complexity for writing them. I no long write in pure
               | cursive, but I have a sort of hybrid print/cursive
               | script. I write many letters in their cursive form as
               | they are faster and flow better, but I never connect
               | letters together. It is a good compromise between speed
               | and readability. 4. Practice, practice, practice. I know
               | this is probably self evident, but it really does take
               | practice. Practice writing letters slowly. It's like
               | martial arts, you go slow and get the movement perfect.
               | Then do it over and over again. That builds the muscle
               | memory better.
        
               | DougN7 wrote:
               | I don't know if it helps, but Tul brand pens in the US
               | are gel pens like you mention. I've never had a favorite
               | pen, but I do since a friend introduced these to me.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | Learn to write upside down, then turn the paper upside
               | down and write from right to left.
        
               | lloda wrote:
               | I've seen left handed people tilt the paper 90deg and
               | write more or less downwards. Their writing looked fine.
        
               | xenospn wrote:
               | I'm left handed, and my handwriting writing goes from
               | really nice to shit when I use different pens. My advice
               | is experiment with different types. I love BiC pens, they
               | feel super smooth.
               | 
               | Also, growing up in Israel, where we write right to left,
               | I don't recall any of my right-handed friends having
               | issues with handwriting.
        
               | loup-vaillant wrote:
               | My SO is left handed, and here's her trick: _slant the
               | paper_.
               | 
               | If you write with the same positioning we teach to right
               | handers, the hand hides the writing, and if you use a
               | fountain pen you just smear the writing before it has a
               | chance to dry. So don't: slant the paper, like 45 degrees
               | counter clockwise, and position your hand above the line
               | you're writing. Somewhat. I'm not the leftie, I'm working
               | from memory here.
               | 
               | The key idea is to keep the text visible, and keep the
               | writing position relatively comfortable. Then it's just
               | down to training. Target a specific style, draw
               | individual letters... write stuff while concentrating on
               | the _writing_ , not whatever you need the writing for
               | (you can't really practice _and_ take notes for
               | instance).
               | 
               | Mostly boring advice, that apart from slanting the paper
               | probably applies to everyone. _(Note: I also have
               | terrible hand writing, grain of salt and all that.)_
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | There might be no 'normally' remaining any more :
         | 
         | I've heard that in some <<almost only words>> fields, laptops
         | for students (and projectors for professors) got generalized
         | during lectures (?),
         | 
         | while in math-heavy fields (and I assume, anything involving
         | frequently having to do drawings / schematics), paper for
         | students (and blackboards for professors) were still
         | overwhelmingly used only a few years ago, and I predict are
         | still going to be, until both hardware (e-paper just only
         | barely got colour now !) and software gets much, MUCH better.
        
           | Panzer04 wrote:
           | I think things like iPads aren't uncommon, at least that's
           | what I was using - but handwriting on an iPad is virtually
           | identical to pen and paper, so no real difference.
        
             | BlueTemplar wrote:
             | We'll have to disagree on that, since IMHO even e-paper
             | falls short of paper (while having other benefits of
             | course)
        
         | awinter-py wrote:
         | > Allowing the use of (the fingers of) both hands would cause
         | many unforeseen effects on the brain, which would make it hard
         | to interpret the results. Participants gave their informed
         | written consent
         | 
         | but is it truly informed consent if it is written with multiple
         | fingers?
        
       | cjs_ac wrote:
       | When I did my teacher training fifteen or so years ago, we were
       | told that information that was written down by hand was retained
       | for longer than information that was typed. This article seems to
       | correlate with what I was taught.
       | 
       | However, there's no underlying theory to anything in psychology.
       | Psychologists come up with things they call _theories_ , but when
       | you look at them a bit more closely, they're 'just-so stories'
       | that happen to fit some experimental results. The experimental
       | results themselves are shallow correlations between inputs and
       | outputs. Prod the brain in this specific way, and see how it
       | responds. EEG experiments like the one linked only tell us what
       | bits of the brain respond to what stimuli; we don't know what's
       | actually going on in forming a response to that stimulus.
       | 
       | You can point to the ethics protocols by which experimenters are
       | bound to not harm their subjects - these are important and
       | worthy. You can point to the advertising industry's use of
       | psychology to improve its effectiveness, but this is itself a
       | shallow endeavour. As far as improving our understanding the
       | brain as a physical system, the discipline of psychology is much
       | activity with little achievement.
        
       | dmd wrote:
       | But this is not handwriting vs typing. It's handwriting vs. "a
       | weird input method none of the participants had ever used
       | before", namely pecking at the keyboard with one finger of one
       | hand.
        
         | deepsun wrote:
         | But if the results were null, would anyone share and repost the
         | article?
        
           | richrichie wrote:
           | Hence "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False".
           | 
           | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1182327/
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | Now do it with a Dvorak or Colemak layout. lol.
        
       | Aardwolf wrote:
       | Neither handwriting nor typewriting existed while the brain
       | evolved.
       | 
       | Why does the more modern method have to be the bad one again?
        
       | tarboreus wrote:
       | I'm visually impaired and not being able to write in a notebook
       | is one of the relatively few things I actually miss.
        
       | utopicwork wrote:
       | I was forced to handwrite my whole school life and was forced to
       | switch off of cursive when teachers decided they didnt want to
       | read it so writing was very slow and painful for me. Typing blew
       | open my ability to think because I could just bash out what I
       | needed written down immediately and then edit as I saw fit
       | instead of just missing my window to write something down and
       | like not retaining it at all.
        
       | DavideNL wrote:
       | ...so, do i need to register to be able to see the article? (i
       | see a blank page with the text "Someone has a copy - request"...)
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Fixed now - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42290219
         | for explanation.
        
       | codr7 wrote:
       | Crappy science aside, I second the findings, sort of.
       | 
       | I always carry a notebook/pen with me, writing/drawing helps my
       | brain process information in a way that doesn't happen with a
       | keyboard. Whiteboards are even better, if slightly less portable.
        
         | codr7 wrote:
         | Hey now dimwits, it's not like I'm forcing anyone, just sharing
         | my experience.
        
       | lovegrenoble wrote:
       | This has been known for a long time...
        
       | amai wrote:
       | In the age of AGI why is handwriting recognition still so bad and
       | not a mainstream technology?
       | 
       | Why do I still have to painstakingly write math formulas in LaTeX
       | instead of just writing them by hand?
       | 
       | Why don't we write computer code by hand instead of typing it in
       | and struggling with encodings?
       | 
       | We have face/object recognition and audio recognition which is
       | often better than humans. But handwriting recognition is still
       | quite lacking. Are there technical reasons for that or is our
       | monopolistic IT industry just focusing on the things nobody needs
       | like Metaverses, Augmented Reality and Chatbots?
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Because writing by hand is slower for most people, and makes
         | editing difficult?
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | I think the base premise of this comment is wrong? Apple has
         | had many features like this available for a long time and it's
         | hard to think of many things that are more mainstream
         | technology. You can input text, equations and what have you
         | with the Apple Pencil, you can scan your handwritten notes to
         | text in Notes, etc, it's all already there.
        
         | squigz wrote:
         | Write code... by hand?
         | 
         | This is surely not a serious suggestion, right?
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | Oh my god writing code by hand would be awful. I can type so
         | much faster than I can write, and my hand doesn't start to hurt
         | after a few words like it does when I write. Plus, how would
         | code completion work with handwriting?
         | 
         | I hate handwriting with a passion
        
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