[HN Gopher] Show HN: Feels Like Paper
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Show HN: Feels Like Paper
"Feels Like Paper!" is a series of prototypes about augmenting
physical paper through AI. Various ML models, LLMs and a mixed
reality headset are used to infuse physical paper and ink with
properties of the digital world without compromising on their
physical traits.
Author : MoroL
Score : 235 points
Date : 2024-11-27 18:43 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.lukasmoro.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.lukasmoro.com)
| jitl wrote:
| I love the lens effect at the bottom of the viewport and design
| of the site overall, really cool. Do you have a post about that
| effect - or is the best way to learn about it in the developer
| tools?
| MoroL wrote:
| Thank you. You can investigate progressive blur.
| muti wrote:
| Too bad it makes the whole thing laggy enough that I didn't get
| past the first few paragraphs on my phone, and there's no
| obvious way to disable it
| jitl wrote:
| Alas :( my phone is fine scrolling at 120hz with the effect
| (iPhone 15 pro max)
| r87 wrote:
| I'm the opposite end of spectrum. I really disliked the frosted
| glass look on images as they loaded and left the page before
| finishing reading due to how off-putting I found it to be.
| swores wrote:
| It didn't make me leave the page, but I agree that I too
| found the effects annoying and off putting.
| chronogram wrote:
| I also left the page early. I enjoy reading, and wasn't able
| to do that as effectively on this website.
| oneeyedpigeon wrote:
| As another top-level comment pointed out, this is a bit of a
| dark-pattern to indicate paywalled content. In this case, I
| think it would be better without it.
| echoangle wrote:
| This site is lagging a bit, maybe turn down the blur effects on
| every single element
| hmottestad wrote:
| It's actually fine on my phone. I've got the latest and
| greatest though.
| WD-42 wrote:
| Maybe getting hugged to death? Every image is blurry (I'm
| assuming this is pre-load optimization thing).
| vunderba wrote:
| From the article: _Keichii Matsuda wrote a manifesto called
| "GODS". In it he describes an anaphor for augmented reality
| rooted in pagan animism. Unlike monotheistic Western approaches
| of interfacing artificial intelligence like ChatGPT or Siri, he
| advocates to leverage the possibility of augmented reality
| technologies to extend places and objects to populate the world
| with many different agents or "gods"._
|
| Author should read Daemon by Daniel Suarez written in 2006 that
| explores the idea of persistent and potentially powerful AR
| entities that interact with humans. It also loosely plays with
| the idea of AR somatic gestures acting as a mystical conduit for
| "primitive incantations" that have a physical affect on the real
| world.
| MoroL wrote:
| Hey, thanks for the literature recommendations and pointer.
| Will definitely have a look at them.
| heisenzombie wrote:
| A subject also tackled in the (oft HN recommended)
| https://qntm.org/ra
| thrtythreeforty wrote:
| Others have suggested _Ra_ for those that find this concept
| compelling. Let me also recommend basically all of Karl
| Schroeder 's work, which touches on machine intelligence in
| lots of ways. The steampunk Virga series has AIs which act on
| behalf of nature, _Lady of Mazes_ has "votes" which are
| physical embodiments of political movements, and _Ventus_ has
| sentient terraforming robots who no longer think as humans do.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Lords of Kobol, hear my prayer.
|
| I guess we're bound to switch between polytheism and monotheism
| as technology advances. Some could say, all of this has
| happened before.
| e12e wrote:
| Reminds me of the escaped AIs of Willam Gibson's sprawl
| triology, as in "Count Zero" (1987) - all though they only
| manifest in cyberspace - VR not AR:
|
| > (...) The man smiled at Bobby. "Count Zero," he said, "they
| tell us that's your handle."
|
| > "That's right," Bobby managed, though it came out as a kind
| of croak.
|
| > "We need to know about the Virgin, Count." The man waited.
|
| > Bobby blinked at him.
|
| > "Vyej Mirak" -- and the glasses went back on -- 'Our Lady,
| Virgin of Miracles. We know her' -- and he made a sign with his
| left hand-- 'as Ezili Freda."
|
| > Bobby became aware of the fact that his mouth was open, so he
| closed it. The three dark faces waited. Jackie and Rhea were
| gone, but he hadn't seen them leave. A kind of panic took him
| then, and he glanced frantically around at the strange forest
| of stunted trees that surrounded them. The gro-light tubes
| slanted at every angle, in any direction, pink-purple
| jackstraws suspended in a green space of leaves. No walls You
| couldn't see a wall at all. The couch and the battered table
| sat in a sort of clearing, with a floor of raw concrete.
|
| > "We know she came to you," the big man said, crossing his
| legs carefully. He adjusted a perfect trouser-crease, and a
| gold cufflink winked at Bobby. "We know, you understand?"
|
| > "Two-a-Day tells me it was your first run," the other man
| said. "That the truth?"
|
| > Bobby nodded.
|
| > "Then you are chosen of Legba," the man said, again removing
| the empty frames," to have met Vyej Mirak." He smiled.
|
| > Bobby's mouth was open again.
|
| > "Legba," the man said, "master of roads and pathways, the loa
| of communication . . ."
|
| > Two-a-Day ground his cigarette out on the scarred wood, and
| Bobby saw that his hand was shaking
| repeekad wrote:
| The blur effect on the bottom of the page makes me feel like I'm
| constantly about to be price walled, haha
| Parfait__ wrote:
| The blur effect is not good at all man. Just do a regular loading
| spinner or skeleton.
| bberenberg wrote:
| I really enjoy the "Mark & Comment" prototype. I want to read
| more on paper, but really don't like digitizing my notes. This
| flow seems much better for me. As AR devices improve, I expect
| this kind of low tech / high tech fusion will improve our
| experiences in novel ways.
| phildenhoff wrote:
| Yeah I'm very interested in this. I'd love to be able to easily
| create digital representations of handwritten notes, even if
| that requires me to markup specifically-formatted documents.
|
| I love reading paper (and eink) but I hate losing notes, and I
| don't have a good process for importing those notes to my
| Logseq database.
| alex_smart wrote:
| Whatever service you are using to host your website is not doing
| a very good job. Tiny <1kb assets are taking upto minutes to
| load.
| MoroL wrote:
| Sorry for that. I use Vercel.
| bix6 wrote:
| I was a little confused at first but I really enjoyed this.
| Awesome work!
| MoroL wrote:
| Thank you.
| luismedel wrote:
| IMHO, an interesting content a bit devalued by the presentation.
| Sometimes less is more (I know, nothing new)
| xnx wrote:
| Neat. https://dynamicland.org/ was the first thing I though of.
| Glad you referenced them on the page.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| Tell me when there isn't a 1kg headset involved in any of this.
| gtothesquare wrote:
| It is much better enjoyed in a desktop.
|
| Love the butterfly!!!
|
| Kudos for experimenting not just with AI but with webdesign. The
| hover preview is really neat too.
|
| keep it up!
| heisenzombie wrote:
| I love this, I'm a big fan of this approach to technology. The
| weakness in this approach, for me, is that these examples seem to
| be mediated through AR glasses, which kind of undoes the analog-
| ness of the whole thing a bit.
|
| For an (old!) example that doesn't use glasses, I'm reminded of
| https://www.topobox.co/
| pimlottc wrote:
| Thin gray text on an off-white background is not very easy to
| read, especially on mobile
| LocalPCGuy wrote:
| And not very accessible as well (fails color contrast
| standards, just over 3:1, 4.5:1 is minimum). I thought light
| grey text on a light background finally went out of style a few
| years back.
| RheingoldRiver wrote:
| That is a dead butterfly [0] being reanimated, not a live
| butterfly flying
|
| [0]: https://www.emilydamstra.com/please-enough-dead-butterflies/
| herodotus wrote:
| Thanks for providing that link. What an amazing artist!
| MoroL wrote:
| Agree 100%. Needs iteration. Thanks for the link.
| flopsamjetsam wrote:
| Until I clicked on the link, I thought you were just using a
| metaphor :)
| beepbooptheory wrote:
| Ugh one of those things I kinda hate to know now.
| tail_exchange wrote:
| It ruined pretty much all butterfly drawings for me. It's the
| kind of thing that is better not knowing lol
| stevage wrote:
| I think it's overblown. It made me pay more attention to
| butterflies in the real world and what I see is when landed
| they often flap their wings intermittently. So I just think
| of the drawings with wings open as catching one of those
| moments.
| jerkstate wrote:
| I agree with your sentiment, the human body is sometimes
| considered most beautiful with the limbs extended in
| dance, that does not mean it is always posed that way. I
| lay in the "corpse pose" every day, it does not mean I am
| dead.
| teach wrote:
| _Ce n 'est pas un papillon._
| pertique wrote:
| I'd also link to a recent HN post [0] exploring butterfly
| flight. The top comment shows the actual flight pattern of a
| butterfly.
|
| Perhaps zombie butterfly fly differently, but otherwise it's
| doubly dead.
|
| This isn't a real nit, but I figured I throw it out there
| anyway.
|
| [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42183079
| mewpmewp2 wrote:
| I understand when butterflies are standing by their wings
| wouldn't be that far ahead, but is it the case also when they
| are flying? That is not so clear to me. When flying it seems
| there can be a lot of variance where their wings can be.
| gcanyon wrote:
| The moment I saw the live vs. dead comparison it hit me:
| center of lift vs. center of mass. Why would the butterfly's
| wings ever project that far forward when there is zero mass
| out there to lift? I suppose it's not impossible -- maybe the
| butterfly is hard-braking? But in normal flight that just
| wouldn't work. I never thought about it like that before, but
| now I can't unsee it.
| mewpmewp2 wrote:
| Out of curiousity I took a look at some midflight photos as
| well as slow mo videos. It could also vary by butterfly
| type, but there were definitely midflight photos were I saw
| wings quite extended front. Also in slow mo it almost looks
| as if they are swimming through air where they extend wings
| front to grab air and bring them back down. I suggest
| taking a look at some slow mo videos. It now occurs to me
| why there's a swimming technique called butterfly. The
| animation in the web app doesn't do the swimming technique
| justice, it's rather static, but at least I do think at
| certain point they have their wings quite extended, so
| unless you animate this whole thing, I don't think it's as
| fair to call it dead compared to if it's standing by with
| wings extended.
| gcanyon wrote:
| That's fair -- to something as small as a butterfly the
| air is much more soup-y, so swimming is maybe a better
| description than flying. That would imply they do need to
| extend forward beyond their head to pull forward through
| the air.
| Ratelman wrote:
| There is quite a variation in its wing position while flying:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odvYot6Rldw&ab_channel=Earth.
| .. So at least some butterflies do actually move their
| forewings significantly forward of their head while in flight
| (as stated by edamstra on June 2nd, 2017 - comment on the OP
| link)
| mewpmewp2 wrote:
| I took a look at some slow mo videos and midflight photos,
| and these were really interesting. In particular what
| seemed interesting is how in some videos they almost like
| swam through the air in which case they did extend their
| wings up front as if to grab air under it and then they
| brought them back down. So the animation on the web app is
| more static, but I don't think it's fair to call it a dead
| butterfly based on that. Also I think I now understand why
| there's a swimming technique called butterfly.
|
| Seeing those slow mo videos and some of the images in the
| edamstra link I think it's a bit unfair to criticise some
| of the things like earrings etc, because with many of those
| it's very plausible they could be mid-flight moments
| (especially earrings as they are literally in the air).
|
| And the "dead butterfly" shirt seems to be very aware and
| all of those could be same butterfly during its flight
| representing all the possible positions.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| Butterfly can also refer anything open / wide-open.
| sram1337 wrote:
| That butterfly is very distracting. So much so that I didn't read
| the article.
|
| I don't see a way to make it go away
| gsinclair wrote:
| When I scrolled down on mobile, the butterfly was no longer
| visible.
| MoroL wrote:
| Hi everyone, my traffic today is high so my website might become
| slower soon, because it surpasses my budget for "Fast Data
| Transfer" from Vercel. I am sorry for any inconvenience.
| FractalHQ wrote:
| I often proxy Vercel through Cloudflare for a free cache layer
| on their edge cdn.
| MoroL wrote:
| Sorry everyone my website is now paused. I migrate it to
| Cloudflare rn.
| risenshinetech wrote:
| Seemed like it would be interesting to read, but I slammed the
| back button once the butterfly (wtf), blur effect, and thin grey
| font on a white background overwhelmed me.
| FractalHQ wrote:
| I liked the fun animation, but I agree that the text should be
| darker for readability / accessibility.
| pmontra wrote:
| Agreed. The correct text color is the one of the titles. The
| paragraphs are too gray, they have not enough contrast. Place a
| sheet of paper from a book or a magazine side to side with that
| page and the text on the paper will be much easier to read
| 99.99% of the times. Is there any irony in that? Given the
| subject of the post, maybe not. It's a demonstration that
| hundreds of years of paper typography yield a better ergonomy
| than 30 years of the web.
| ryukoposting wrote:
| Design choices like these tend to negatively influence my
| opinion of whatever I'm about to read. That's a shame, too,
| because the demonstration that followed is a very rare use case
| for AR and AI that didn't make me roll my eyes.
| asgerhb wrote:
| I slammed the reader-mode button, which unfortunately killed
| the videos.
|
| Not having looping/procedural animations in your articles is an
| accessibility feature. People with ADHD simply can't read
| blocks of text if there's visual noise flitting about
| everywhere.
| ksec wrote:
| This Deployment is paused by the owner.
|
| Your connection is working correctly.
|
| Vercel is working correctly.
| bmicraft wrote:
| That's interesting, I'm getting SSL_ERROR_NO_CYPHER_OVERLAP in
| Firefox. And ssllabs.com can't even test the site apparently.
|
| I wonder it those those are connected somehow.
| xelxebar wrote:
| > The intricate user experience of physical paper is unmatched...
|
| So much this. Our hands have such a disproportionate
| concentration of nerves compared to the rest of our body, it's a
| shame current tech is soley focused on visual and audio
| interaction (with some very minor haptics).
|
| A piece of paper or book has texture, heft, temperature, and
| stiffness which our hands pick up on and interpret so
| effortlessly we don't even consciously notice most of the time. I
| want those information channels in my user experience. Leafing
| through paper and books has so many nice features: the weight
| distribution tells you about how far along you are; fingers can
| flip pages or between chapters with high fidelity and high
| feedback for tracking the context switch; earmarking or sticky
| notes encode metadata that's immediately available when needed
| and hidden otherwise, without having to navigate layers of
| organization; the mechanics of splaying out multiple pages on a
| table is effortless compared to manipulating desktop windows; we
| even subconsciously pick up on non-uniformities in physical
| layout, which helps with disambiguation---i.e. noise is
| information.
|
| Don't get me wrong, the interactivity of screens is wonderful,
| and e-ink dose bring one tiny nicety of paper to them, but I
| think we've barely even begun to tap into the possibilities of
| computer user interfaces.
|
| FWIW, very terse languages like APL have the very nice property
| that programming with pen and paper actually feels natural, and
| you actually see it happen organically during discussions amongst
| array programmers. I think our current programming paradigms may
| be more constrained by HCI limitations than we realize.
| MoroL wrote:
| Sorry everyone. My hosting was not prepared for the amount of
| traffic while I migrate you can find the explorations on Twitter
| as well.
|
| https://x.com/lukas_moro/status/1829487148078412019
| https://x.com/lukas_moro/status/1838207092471050645
| https://x.com/lukas_moro/status/1847299759603699906
| leerob wrote:
| (I work at Vercel) It seems like you possibly have a spend cap
| on, which would automatically pause your site when a certain
| amount of spend is hit. Vercel is working correctly in this
| case.
|
| If you are hosting a lot of video files, I would recommend
| using Vercel Blob (object storage). This is a better fit for
| larger volume assets like images or videos, versus "fast data
| transfer" as you mentioned in another comment for critical
| assets like stylesheets or scripts.
|
| Happy to help out if you have questions, email is lee at vercel
| dot com.
| voytec wrote:
| Is ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH the effect of this cap?
| If so - that's a really weird approach at blocking a website.
| > openssl version OpenSSL 3.4.0 22 Oct 2024 (Library:
| OpenSSL 3.4.0 22 Oct 2024) > openssl s_client
| -connect www.lukasmoro.com:443 Connecting to
| 2a06:98c1:3120::b CONNECTED(00000005)
| 00E167F201000000:error:0A000410:SSL
| routines:ssl3_read_bytes:ssl/tls alert handshake
| failure:ssl/record/rec_layer_s3.c:908:SSL alert number 40
| leerob wrote:
| No, I am referencing the "deployment paused" page.
| xyzzy_plugh wrote:
| This is fine content for private communications with your
| customer but rubs me the wrong way posted here. It doesn't
| read to me that your customer is being negative about Vercel
| in any way, so to me it feels arrogant to come here and say
| "well actually you can't afford us."
|
| If you feel differently, and think it's acceptable to do so,
| why not instead say that on the error page? "Customer has
| exceeded their budget. Please add additional funds."
|
| If you don't think such messaging is appropriate, then I'm
| curious why you think doing it here would be?
|
| If you want to be truly helpful to your customer, you would
| consider raising or temporarily uncapping their traffic as a
| gesture of good will.
| leerob wrote:
| The "deployment paused" screen is shown publicly when hard
| spend limits are reached for a project. These limits are
| configured by the user.
|
| Spend controls aren't necessarily about affordability, it's
| often for peace of mind (similar to a fixed price server,
| or a disposal card with a limit).
|
| I also don't view them as being negative on Vercel (we
| likely could have alerted them better, as it seems this
| caught them off guard).
|
| Their traffic isn't capped and they can change this if they
| prefer. But I'm guessing there's some large asset causing
| unexpected usage, which is why I offered my email. Happy to
| walk through it with them and figure out a path to
| optimize.
| woodrowbarlow wrote:
| i think HN has a high bar for when somebody comments as a
| representative of their company. it's not uncommon for
| someone repping their company to step in with a comment
| like "i've temporarily added credits on your account so
| your post can stay up".
|
| fwiw, i read your comment as just trying to be helpful.
| but sometimes there is an assumption that if you're
| publicly representing your company, then you're also
| enabled to make reasonable ad-hoc overrides as an
| outreach opportunity.
| omnimus wrote:
| When the cheap static site hosting became "you have a spend
| cap on"...
|
| As William Wallace once said " they may take our servers, but
| they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!"
| wheybags wrote:
| Fwiw I host some static html websites on a cheap ovh vps (used
| to be a literal core i3 kimsufi box for a couple hundred a
| year, it's very slightly beefier now), and have hit the front
| page of hn with that setup several times with no issues.
|
| Not trying to attack anyone for their tech choices, just a
| little reminder that the simple solutions are still there and
| they are cheap and work really well :p
| kayvulpe wrote:
| Anyone else getting ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH?
| system2 wrote:
| I did:
|
| This site can't provide a secure connection www.lukasmoro.com
| uses an unsupported protocol.
| ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH
|
| It is a cloudflare site but the SSL is Google Trust Services
| (https://pki.goog/).
|
| It is likely cloudflare SSL mode (full/strict/flexible) might
| be screwing up the site SSL. It usually happens to me when I
| launch a brand new site with freshly migrated DNS. I won't
| waste more time, also www version of the site points at
| somewhere else. Well...
| MoroL wrote:
| The project is currently available here.
| https://folio-2-0.pages.dev/paper
| MoroL wrote:
| Back online again sorry for the down-time.
| hellweaver666 wrote:
| I'm sure this is very interesting but given that you decided to
| use light grey text on a white background the whole page was
| unreadable.
| nomilk wrote:
| 404 for me.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| I think the loading blur effect is cool and, if it weren't for
| the drama queens on HN, inoffensive.
| alt227 wrote:
| I really dont like the blur effect on the photos. Every time I
| scroll down the page I think my internet is broken!
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