[HN Gopher] The Cosmos Teems with Complex Organic Molecules
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       The Cosmos Teems with Complex Organic Molecules
        
       Author : sundarurfriend
       Score  : 40 points
       Date   : 2024-11-23 11:25 UTC (5 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.quantamagazine.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.quantamagazine.org)
        
       | 082349872349872 wrote:
       | what about chirality?
        
         | gus_massa wrote:
         | They have 50% and 50%. Also, "complex" is very small, like
         | 20-30 atoms. I think someone found small polymers with 100. A
         | lot for not-live stuff, but tiny in comparison to the molecules
         | inside a cell.
        
           | roughly wrote:
           | Do you have a source for the 50/50 chirality?
        
       | MrMcCall wrote:
       | Only human-level organisms can contemplate the grandeur of this
       | vast, vast universe and its Unfathomable Creator. We Earthlings
       | required billions of years of cellular evolution on our planet
       | before we were even possible, so, yeah, the seeds of life are
       | _naturally_ produced by relatively basic chemistry.
       | 
       | "There are no accidents." --Master Shifu
        
         | cmiller1 wrote:
         | The seeds of life, but the next step, their germination so to
         | speak, is the hard part. All life on Earth is part of one grand
         | tree, so out of those billions of years the step from complex
         | organic molecules to life only was completed successfully once
         | as far as we can tell.
        
           | conjectures wrote:
           | Genuine question: how would we tell/know if it was more than
           | once?
           | 
           | Doesn't other life-2 floating around in the primordial soup
           | look like food to life-1? Or wouldn't it be co-opted
           | mitochondria style?
        
             | cmiller1 wrote:
             | There's a whole wikipedia page answering exactly this
             | question:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent
             | 
             | From biochemical similarities, the chirality of certain
             | sugars and amino acids, dna similarities, etc. the evidence
             | for a single common ancestor of all life on Earth is fairly
             | strong; however we don't really have evidence that there
             | never were other lifes that simply were outcompeted at
             | their very early stages.
        
           | MrMcCall wrote:
           | The speed of light has put a severe limit on what we can
           | "know" about life in the other 1+ trillion (?) galaxies, or
           | even in the other hundreds of billions (?) of stars in our
           | own Milky Way.
           | 
           | And it was all apparently very difficult, from our point of
           | view, but that aspect of creation -- and more specifically,
           | its Creator -- are beyond the ken of _creatures_ such as
           | ourselves, even with our vastly superior talents and
           | abilities. Very few of us reach the pinnacle of our ability
           | to commune with the vast information system that is the
           | universe around us.
           | 
           | "It is so wonderful, now that I am in in a constant
           | conversation with You." --Rumi (my paraphrase from memory)
           | 
           | "The Way goes in." --Rumi
        
             | spacemark wrote:
             | Who or what exactly is this Creator you speak of? Would
             | love to know.
        
             | exe34 wrote:
             | > Very few of us reach the pinnacle of our ability to
             | commune with the vast information system that is the
             | universe around us.
             | 
             | what did you smoke to get this power?
        
         | m3kw9 wrote:
         | If life can happen here it can happen in another part of the
         | universe from similar conditions and that's only for the
         | conditions we know of. People go down to the ocean where we
         | didn't think life can exist, and found out it can, and that's
         | just on earth
        
           | spacemark wrote:
           | Right, but life down there didn't independently spark from
           | raw organic molecules. Or, rather, there is no evidence for
           | that, whereas there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest all
           | such life on earth is migratory to new ecosystems and shares
           | one common ancestor.
           | 
           | That leap from organic molecules to "life" is still a bit of
           | a mystery. And how often it occurs is still up for debate.
           | 
           | Look at Earth's history - trees existed for 60 million years
           | before some chance bacterial mutation stumbled on efficiently
           | breaking down lignin. And then boom, trees everywhere - every
           | continent on earth - immediately (in geologic timescales)
           | were decomposed.
           | 
           | The fact that it took 60 million years for extant bacteria to
           | allow for that should give pause to any sweeping statements
           | about the certainty of life and especially complex life.
        
       | octopoc wrote:
       | Doesn't this essentially prove that if there is life outside
       | earth, almost all of it will be carbon based? As opposed to
       | silicon based.
        
         | CuriouslyC wrote:
         | Sulfur and phosphorus can also form complex molecules in
         | addition to silicone. Carbon forms complex molecules in a
         | larger array of chemical environments though.
         | 
         | Ultimately everything hinges on how you define life.
        
         | Mistletoe wrote:
         | Silicon based never really made much sense to me anyway. The
         | bonds it forms are too stable and hard to break apart.
         | 
         | https://www.the-ies.org/analysis/does-silicon-based-life-exi...
        
         | alwayslikethis wrote:
         | Given the abundance of elements, Carbon-based life with water
         | as liquid is probably the most likely.
        
         | roughly wrote:
         | Roughly, life is carbon based because carbon has interesting
         | properties for biochemistry and is the cheapest way to make a
         | range of complex molecules. If life somewhere were not to be
         | carbon based, there'd need to be some reason why carbon based
         | life didn't take off instead.
        
       | asah wrote:
       | Does this affect the Sagan equation?
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | No because we don't actually know any of the coefficients. It's
         | not supposed to be a real measure, it's just a fun thought
         | exercise. Guessing at a many variables is still just guessing.
        
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