[HN Gopher] Henry James and H.G. Wells (1958)
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       Henry James and H.G. Wells (1958)
        
       Author : lermontov
       Score  : 44 points
       Date   : 2024-11-26 13:33 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bopsecrets.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bopsecrets.org)
        
       | greentxt wrote:
       | Interesting. Rexroth to his credit wasn't a terrible poet.
        
         | devindotcom wrote:
         | And it seems, a snob of some standing himself!
        
       | drcwpl wrote:
       | Wells was way above James in quality, prolific output and wide
       | ranging genres, from sci-fi to history, fiction and social reform
       | - his life story is worth studying carefully. His work even led
       | towards the atomic bomb and statute of human rights.
       | 
       | Dream boldly and build responsibly -
       | https://onepercentrule.substack.com/p/hg-wells-dream-boldly-...
        
         | WillAdams wrote:
         | In particular, his _Outline of History_ is well worth reading
         | for its examination of how the commons (in terms of common
         | pastural areas and so forth shared by a community) were eroded
         | away by the newfangled notion of individual property.
         | 
         | It's on Project Gutenberge, and the Librivox recording may be
         | workable depending on your tolerance for voices and background
         | noise.
         | 
         | Though it's worth noting that the authorship of that text is
         | challenged/potentially problematic --- look up Florence Deeks'
         | copyright challenge.
        
           | mjklin wrote:
           | He also wrote a fascinating biology textbook ("The Science of
           | Life", with two co-authors) and a book about the economy
           | entitled "The Work, Wealth, and Happiness of Mankind". His
           | nonfiction work deserves as much attention as his fiction, it
           | is excellent.
        
           | drcwpl wrote:
           | I have a copy of the Outline of History, now I will look for
           | the Librivox recording. In his Autobiography he discusses
           | Florence Deeks' copyright challenge. He was rather frustrated
           | by the challenge. Apparently she made several claims against
           | others too.
        
         | devindotcom wrote:
         | I don't know that I would agree he is above James in "quality."
         | Wells was of course great, but he also put out a lot of trash.
         | James may have been the more limited of the two in tone, topic,
         | and social politics, but his work is of a different caliber in
         | terms of prose, complexity, and coherence.
        
         | GeoAtreides wrote:
         | > Wells was way above James in quality
         | 
         | In all of my twelve years on this godforsaken site, i had never
         | had the displeasure of reading something more wrong; it
         | actually transcends being wrong and, as Pauli would put it,
         | it's not even wrong.
        
           | serious_angel wrote:
           | I may see it, but perhaps a more descriptive opinion of yours
           | backed up with actual shades from your own viewpoint will
           | provide a better trust with your comment. Sure, sometimes
           | words cannot explain a thought, but effort may at least
           | spread a few light rays on it supporting during discoveries.
           | What do you think? Why do you, personally, disagree with
           | someone's else opinion highlighting the whole 12 years of
           | your experience of communication...
        
             | nuz wrote:
             | I get what you're doing but I don't find this a fair
             | caricature of james' writing style
        
               | polynomial wrote:
               | Feels LLM generated. Clever either way.
        
           | vundercind wrote:
           | It's not even a pair of authors I'd have considered comparing
           | in a "who's higher-quality" way. It's like comparing
           | Spielberg and Aronofsky or something, as one being "way
           | above" the other "in quality". I dunno, man... maybe? But I
           | dunno. Pretty sure you can make it look like either one's way
           | better than the other by picking your framing of "best", and
           | in _several_ different ways.
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | The general consensus of the literary establishment at least up
         | to 20 years ago is that James was far greater than Wells, I
         | believe that is still the accepted viewpoint, although some
         | things I have heard and seen recently make me think that Wells
         | may be getting re-evaluated, but still not above James I
         | believe.
         | 
         | That said I happen to have a great deal of literary contempt
         | for James and think he should be completely thrown away as a
         | worthless piece of junk - which reasons I will not expound on
         | here. Whereas I only ever found Wells sort of boring.
         | 
         | OK I found James boring too, but also a conceited punk of
         | considerably lower quality than his own opinion and the
         | critical establishment has given for an ability to write
         | complicated sentences about inessential things (that was not
         | expounding on my reasons, that was just a little snide aside)
        
       | unstyledcontent wrote:
       | James is a master, there is no doubt. But I'm convinced to now
       | check out Wells who I somehow haven't read anything of!
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | If you just want to dip in then I can heartily recommend Wells'
         | short stories, of which he wrote a bunch. Standard Ebooks has a
         | nice edition for free: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/h-g-
         | wells/short-fiction
        
           | drcwpl wrote:
           | Super, thank you
        
         | pomian wrote:
         | Absolutely everyone should read "The Time Machine." If you
         | prefer, then an unabridged audiobook is great, I recommend
         | putting in the effort to find a reading by Simon Vance. (It
         | isn't a long book.) The first paragraph of The Time Machine, is
         | one of the best introductory paragraphs ever written (in my
         | opinion, obviously.) One relishes the imagery it reveals, as
         | you read it, like a great main course of a fine meal - with
         | delight, flavour and a promise of more.
        
           | drcwpl wrote:
           | "The first paragraph of The Time Machine, is one of the best
           | introductory paragraphs ever written (in my opinion,
           | obviously.) One relishes the imagery it reveals, as you read
           | it, like a great main course of a fine meal - with delight,
           | flavour and a promise of more."
           | 
           | Beautifully put - I will look for Vance's reading
        
         | devindotcom wrote:
         | Definitely do Time Machine first, then his other "classics for
         | a reason" the War of the Worlds, the Invisible Man, the Island
         | of Dr Moreau, and IMO the Food of the Gods. His work tends to
         | have a sort of bipartite structure where the second half
         | diverges quite a bit from the first or there is a major
         | thematic shift partway, usually as a consequence of "committing
         | to the bit." Sometimes it seems like he has lost the plot,
         | other times that he has found it. But the books are extremely
         | readable.
        
         | billfruit wrote:
         | 'Kipps', is the novel H G Wells, reportedly considered the most
         | favourite amongst his works.
        
       | throw4847285 wrote:
       | It's only fair to include James's response to Wells.
       | 
       | 'It is art that makes life, makes interest, makes importance, for
       | our consideration and application of those things, and I know of
       | no substitute whatever for the force and beauty of the process.'
       | 
       | I haven't read enough of either author to have an opinion on
       | their relative literary merit, but James is right about that, at
       | the very least.
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | I've read a fair amount of both, and I think that James is
         | definitely the superior prose stylist. Wells has an interest in
         | social structures that informs a great deal of his plots
         | (especially ( _The Time Machine_ ). They're in many ways
         | incomparable if only because their literary projects have very
         | different aims.
        
         | vundercind wrote:
         | I bet that appreciating what they're really talking about would
         | require digging into a broader debate about the best approaches
         | to, and attitude toward the writing of, good literature, which
         | was a decades-long topic among a bunch of major figures in
         | literature in the late 19th and early 20th century.
         | 
         | I mean, there are probably always such debates going on to some
         | degree, but this is a specific one that saw James and some
         | fellows on a side opposed to a bunch of other authors. I only
         | know about it because I happen to have read part of a book of
         | criticism of EM Forster earlier this year, and I gather that
         | debate was kinda _the_ major topic among that set for a long
         | while (Forster was on the opposite side of it from James)
        
       | wrp wrote:
       | > His [Wells'] novels are not social novels at all.
       | 
       | The science fiction novels for which Wells is best known form a
       | small part of his fiction output, and are from early in his
       | career. Most of his ca. 50 novels are "social", propagandistic
       | and dull, and known mostly to literature professors.
       | 
       | As for Wells' non-fiction work, all I can say is don't confuse
       | "opinionated" with "knowledgeable". Wells was a prolific writer
       | but not a careful scholar. He was at one point failed out of
       | college.
        
       | technothrasher wrote:
       | > Everybody knows the famous remark by Wells ...
       | 
       | Oh, yes, of course, of course. <slowly slides away and looks for
       | a corner to stand in>
        
         | devindotcom wrote:
         | In a 1958 collected correspondence between two famous authors,
         | "everyone" has a very specific connotation! "Everyone likely to
         | have picked up this book"
        
           | technothrasher wrote:
           | I know, it just reminded me that I should know more about
           | Henry James than I do.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | So someone else besides Trump uses everyone to that extent?
           | While technically not incorrect, every one vs everyone,
           | changes the meaning drastically.
        
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