[HN Gopher] We can mine asteroids for space food
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       We can mine asteroids for space food
        
       Author : reinaldnaufal
       Score  : 107 points
       Date   : 2024-11-26 09:29 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cambridge.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cambridge.org)
        
       | api wrote:
       | This reminds me of US research that was done during the Cold War
       | about surviving a nuclear winter by producing food products
       | directly from petroleum. It's theoretically possible and you
       | could survive on it as a supplemental source of calories.
       | 
       | I think optimizing farming for space flight is probably better,
       | especially if you have always-on solar power (as you do anywhere
       | near the sun) or nuclear power. Hydrocarbons from asteroids and
       | comets are probably better suited for things like plastics
       | manufacture and petrochemicals, since you would not have biotic
       | oil sources in space.
        
         | jvanderbot wrote:
         | I can't think of a single reason we wouldn't just eat algae
         | sludge or synthetic protein mash or something else. Farming is
         | not a space- or weight- optimized process.
        
           | szvsw wrote:
           | To be fair, people will still be people... if the
           | sludge/protein mash can be mildly upgraded to
           | diversity/quality comparable to MREs (not that I've ever had
           | one) sure, but for long term space flight it seems plausible
           | that the psychological/morale detriments of eating sludge
           | every day (or any single meal for that matter) would be
           | significant.
        
           | stoneman24 wrote:
           | Isn't there a requirement for lots of fibre in the diet as
           | well as vitamins, protein, carbohydrates and fats. As well as
           | the psychological effect of eating good food and not mush.
        
             | whycome wrote:
             | Soluble fiber is broken down partially in the gut by
             | bacteria/fermentation. Lots remains. Insoluble fiber passes
             | through mostly unchanged.
             | 
             | You see where this is going.
             | 
             | You need only minimal new inputs and the rest can be
             | recycled.
        
               | stoneman24 wrote:
               | To extend D Rumsfeld
               | 
               | there are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
               | We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we
               | know there are some things we do not know. But there are
               | also unknown unknowns--the ones we don't know we don't
               | know.
               | 
               | And now things that we know and wish that we didn't (ie
               | spaceship recycling)
        
               | whycome wrote:
               | Pee is largely recycled right now on the ISS. It's mostly
               | water.
               | 
               | And nitrogen is good for growing plants - the cellulose
               | of their structure is the ideal insoluble fibre for us.
               | Though, cows turn it into usable sugars.
        
               | api wrote:
               | I heard someone call the ISS closed water system the
               | infinite coffee machine. Yesterday's coffee becomes
               | today's coffee.
               | 
               | It sounds gross but if we get good enough at it it'll
               | work.
               | 
               | Like any settlement on a frontier the first people in
               | space aren't going to eat well. They'll survive. After a
               | long time I imagine we will get good at growing and
               | manufacturing food up there. It's honestly not even close
               | to the hardest problem. Full recycling and modular
               | manufacturing for complex items is a lot harder.
        
             | debacle wrote:
             | If I'm in a fragile metal bubble in the deep black vastness
             | of space, the texture of my nutrisludge will be the least
             | existential of my worries.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | If Rimworld (the game) is to be believed, people that eat
               | too much nutrisludge will eventually snap and eat the
               | people around them.
        
               | themaninthedark wrote:
               | And then turn them into hats....don't forget the hats.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | > If I'm in a fragile metal bubble in the deep black
               | vastness of space...
               | 
               | ... maintaining your mental health is probably a
               | significant concern, which may indeed be surprisingly
               | impacted by the texture of your nutrisludge.
        
         | vegetablepotpie wrote:
         | I'm really curious about this. I did find one 2022 article
         | about producing edible fats from petroleum [1].
         | 
         | It does cite two articles from the '60s one about building
         | acids from petroleum, and building long chains of fat from
         | biological sources. I've found that people may have been
         | thinking about it at the height of the Cold War. Do you have
         | any links you could point me to?
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02638...
        
         | gibspaulding wrote:
         | Apparently producing margarine from coal was actually done
         | during WWII.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarine?wprov=sfti1#Coal_but...
         | 
         | https://www.sciencehistory.org/stories/magazine/brave-new-bu...
         | 
         | Edit: The more I read on this the more doubtful I'm becoming
         | that this was actually produced at scale. If anyone has a
         | better source I'd love to see it!
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I was never a fan of margarine, but the more I learn tidbits
           | like this the more I think it strange.
        
           | dialup_sounds wrote:
           | I can't decide if this sounds more like a startup idea or a
           | proposal from the coal lobby.
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | The British company ICI had a product called Pruteen, which was
         | made by growing bacteria on methanol produced from natural gas
         | as the energy source. It was intended as cattle feed; if people
         | ate it there would be an excess of purines which could lead to
         | gout.
         | 
         | Pruteen was followed by the more successful product Quorn,
         | which is made from a fungus grown in fermentation tanks with
         | glucose as the energy source. It is intended for human
         | consumption as a meat substitute.
        
         | Symmetry wrote:
         | ALLFED[1] is an organization doing research into how we could
         | keep most everyone alive if we have a decade of winder after a
         | super volcano, asteroid impact, or nuclear winter. Processes
         | that convert hydrocarbons into calories are certainly in their
         | playbook.
         | 
         | [1]https://allfed.info/
        
       | pavel_lishin wrote:
       | Reminds me of the CHON factories from the Heechee Saga, by
       | Frederik Pohl.
        
         | yborg wrote:
         | My brother in _Gateway_ (1977).
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | Still can't get this series on kindle
        
       | twodave wrote:
       | I wonder if it would be possible for e.g. asteroid material to
       | work as an indirect source of nutrition? I.e. carry a specialized
       | yeast on board that can "eat" the asteroid, and, sort of like
       | sourdough, use the yeast's excess growth as food for humans...
       | Sounds nasty now that I say it out loud haha.
        
         | andai wrote:
         | Starmite!
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | Minemite
        
         | jareklupinski wrote:
         | > a specialized yeast on board that can "eat" the asteroid
         | 
         | that's my 'retirement project'
         | 
         | https://www.the-odin.com/bacterial-crispr-and-fluorescent-ye...
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Problem is that the vast majority of material is metal, so your
         | digester needs a way to saturate the metal to reach the CHON,
         | and and then extract the digester. Is that really better than
         | extracting the CHON directly and then processing it?
        
           | busssard wrote:
           | that depends so much on the kind of asteroid i thought.
        
             | PaulHoule wrote:
             | Carbonaceous Chondrite asteroids have carbon in the form of
             | coal but also carbonate rocks as well as moderate amounts
             | of water as well as stony minerals (silicon, aluminum) as
             | well as iron.
        
         | gus_massa wrote:
         | That's the actual plan. It's not explsined in the introduction,
         | but in the middle of the article they explain that they will
         | food bacterias with the proceced material, and later people
         | will eat the bacteria.
        
         | speerer wrote:
         | This is very close to the subject of the article. In the
         | following quotation, "consortia" means (I think) globs of
         | algae:
         | 
         | > After comparing the experimental pyrolysis breakdown
         | products, which were able to be converted to biomass using a
         | consortia, it was hypothesized that equivalent chemicals found
         | on asteroids could also be converted to biomass with the same
         | nutritional content as the pyrolyzed products. This study is a
         | mathematical exercise that explores the potential food yield
         | that could be produced from these methodologies.
        
           | twodave wrote:
           | Ah, thanks. Exposing my non-academic reading comprehension ;)
        
           | mkl wrote:
           | Yes: "A group of symbiotic microbes" -
           | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/consortium#English
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | We're the scary aliens other ETI's make sci-fi horror movies
         | about.
         | 
         | " _...and they wield GREY GOO that turns *everything* it
         | touches into nutrients they lap up in their flappy
         | appendages..._ "
        
           | benpacker wrote:
           | We always have been
        
           | josefresco wrote:
           | I could have done just fine without learning about "grey goo"
           | today thank you very much.
        
           | roughly wrote:
           | "They're Made out of Meat" https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolica
           | r/writing/prose/text/think...
        
             | vizzier wrote:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6JFTmQCFHg
        
       | lupire wrote:
       | "The asteroid mass needed to support one astronaut for one year
       | is between 160k metric tons and 5k metric tons. "
       | 
       | 10 to 500 tons per person per day.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | Well, if you never recycle anything and rely only on the
         | extremely low quality reserves you found floating around...
         | 
         | I have no idea why the measurement unities even make sense.
        
       | Null-Set wrote:
       | Asteroids which enter a planet's atmosphere will probably yield
       | even better food, because they will be a little meteor.
        
         | tessierashpool wrote:
         | underrated comet
        
           | nonethewiser wrote:
           | stellar even
        
         | bpodgursky wrote:
         | My 3 year old used to think the dinosaurs are gone because a
         | meat eater killed them all.
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | The Dodo bird could probably be considered a dinosaur, not
           | entirely wrong...
        
         | whycome wrote:
         | because they will be a little meteor, right?
         | 
         | How did you comet o that conclusion?
         | 
         | And a hungry mouth will approach: "please sir, armageddon some
         | more?"
        
       | donaldihunter wrote:
       | Title should really be "How we might be able to ..."
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | We're just lucky the HN title ruiner bot didn't change it to
         | "We can food"
        
       | zelias wrote:
       | For my Factorio friends out there, this sounds like grounds for a
       | mod that let's you "mine" nutrients in space
        
         | Wingy wrote:
         | This is roughly a thing in Space Age!
        
           | Filligree wrote:
           | Really? Can you make spoilage somehow?
        
             | cortesoft wrote:
             | Spoilage is a thing in Factorio now
             | 
             | https://wiki.factorio.com/Spoilage
        
               | Filligree wrote:
               | Yes, but I'm not aware of a way to make it from
               | asteroids.
        
         | goda90 wrote:
         | The space version of this mod:
         | https://mods.factorio.com/mod/SeaBlock
        
       | butlike wrote:
       | Lisa Simpson: "Look (the boar) is licking the slime off that
       | rock! That's what he's been eating: slime!"
        
       | coding123 wrote:
       | I can't wait for us to start mining asteroids and my bank account
       | has $123,456,789,101,123,500,700!!!!!!
       | 
       | And then use that to buy $80 trillion dollar cheeseburgers at
       | McD's!
        
       | jmcmaster wrote:
       | I am a layperson for astrochemistry but IIRC comets have much
       | higher hydrocarbon content by an order of magnitude or more (and
       | obviously more water, fewer metals to contend with for extraction
       | energy requirements).
       | 
       | Anyone have more insights? Did I miss mention of comets in my
       | skim of the paper?
       | 
       | Ps usually HN not a punfest, but kudos for the Starmite(tm)
       | @andai
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | I think comets are significantly harder to get a hold of;
         | they're in long-period orbits, and changing their trajectories
         | - or even catching up with them! - is significantly harder than
         | catching something that circles the sun inside the orbit of
         | Jupiter.
        
       | tlb wrote:
       | The relevant comparison is the energy needed to turn asteroids
       | into food vs. the energy needed to turn exhaled CO2 and poop back
       | into food. Astronauts live in closed ecosystems, so you don't
       | need to bring in additional mass. Just close the cycle.
        
       | metalman wrote:
       | As a young child I was filled with hope, and some other mixed
       | feelings, as it was anouced that the lunar astronoghts would be
       | testing to see if the moon was made of blue cheese.My hope was
       | that this would be brought back to feed all of the hungry people,
       | but as I didnt want any myself, I had mixed feeling of not
       | sharing there lot.And was quite disapointed to hear the
       | anouncement from the moon, that it was not in fact made of blue
       | cheese. No one is going to be disapointed if the astroslime cakes
       | dont work out.
        
       | jamieplex wrote:
       | I know this whole thing is just a thought experiment, but I had
       | to wonder about not only the cost of all of this per "astronaut"
       | (off the cuff - $10M per person per year), but the massive amount
       | of energy needed for "life and food production". Just a single
       | line item on my list of "doubtful, but not impossible" is the
       | three quarters of a million Joules of energy needed to melt just
       | 1000 grams of asteroid ice inside your protective environment.
       | And you are gonna need a LOT of liquid water to accomplish all of
       | this out in space...
        
         | ttyprintk wrote:
         | If we can talk long term, then a survey of the asteroid belt
         | would reveal two special bands of density: close to ice, and
         | close to gold. Returning a gold asteroid to Earth orbit has
         | straightforward economics. Build a small cylinder or globe
         | around an ice asteroid and melt just enough of it to kickstart
         | the greenhouse effect.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | Gold is only really valuable because we agreed it is; it has
           | industrial applications (good conductor, malleable) but
           | mostly it is priced based on its prettiness. If we were
           | suddenly totally awash in gold, I guess the price would go
           | down.
           | 
           | It is fairly dense, so maybe the best application for gold if
           | you have lots of it in space (and not many morals) might be
           | to threaten to drop it on people/cities/whatever.
        
             | christophilus wrote:
             | > If we were suddenly totally awash in gold, I guess the
             | price would go down.
             | 
             | Yes, and this has happened at least twice in history: when
             | Europeans discovered the Americas and moved a bunch of gold
             | into Europe, and when Europeans discovered World Wars and
             | moved a bunch of gold back to the Americas.
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | Europeans stole so much gold from S America it messed up
               | the economy in China.
        
         | MetallicDragon wrote:
         | In space, assuming you're not too far out, heat is abundant.
         | Literally just put the ice in an insulated room with a window
         | facing the sun. If you want to get fancy, use mirrors to focus
         | the sunlight.
        
       | Terr_ wrote:
       | I suppose the next step beyond vegetarianism and veganism will be
       | mineralism: Food using molecules certified never to have been
       | part of any known living organism.
       | 
       | I remember there was a fictional advertisement for such a product
       | in a sci-fi story, but not exactly where.
        
         | ada1981 wrote:
         | I think such a technical advancement would parallel a moral
         | one.
         | 
         | I've been vegan 25 years and would be happy to silence the "but
         | what about plants" people once and for all.
        
           | TaylorAlexander wrote:
           | I'm vegan too. Someone will say "what about the
           | microorganisms in your gut" or something. People often have a
           | negative reaction to vegans and that's not going to change.
        
           | throwawaycities wrote:
           | Obviously some plants die and others don't in harvesting.
           | 
           | Mostly the "even broccoli screams when you rip it from the
           | ground" is a joke more often than actual trolling.
           | 
           | I think the valid moral argument is that as a result of
           | modern agricultural practices substantially more animals are
           | killed than animal husbandry. Usually the counter-arguments
           | involves moving the moral goal posts by valuing farm animals
           | over "pests and insects", or blaming the modern agricultural
           | practices and suggesting organic farming cures those harms.
        
           | mmooss wrote:
           | There's a distinction - between obvious BS that is a
           | philosophical puzzle to rebut on one hand, and genuine issues
           | on the other. You don't really have to play the game of the
           | former, unless you don't like philosophical puzzles of
           | course.
        
           | FrustratedMonky wrote:
           | What about the atoms?
        
         | Teever wrote:
         | I've wondered about this too and if in our quest to colonize
         | the solar system and mine asteroids we will inadvertently
         | destroy remnants of dead extraterrestrial life or artifacts of
         | alien species such as defunct sentinel probes that were hidden
         | in an asteroid.
         | 
         | It would be tragic if the only proof of alien life in the solar
         | system was gobbled up by some automated asteroid miner that
         | turns asteroids into shitty consumer goods.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | Is mined food processed food?
        
           | jaydeegee wrote:
           | Every* food is processed food the amount of processing
           | varies.
        
         | jorgesborges wrote:
         | This actually makes sense to me in terms of logical coherence.
         | I understand and support people who follow ethically-motivated
         | diets but the fact is a line is always drawn somewhere. Plants
         | are alive. Why is a carrot's life less important than a
         | rabbit's?
         | 
         | I don't think we're good at making claims about where
         | particular organisms sit along a gradient of consciousness we
         | can't even properly define.
         | 
         | I like to imagine other civilizations in the universe might use
         | this basic distinction to evaluate how sophisticated a culture
         | is -- do they still needlessly eradicate life for more
         | convenient consumption? Akin to asking, are they still a pre-
         | warp civilization?
        
           | PartiallyTyped wrote:
           | I draw my line based on units of consciousness that I half-
           | arbitrarily assign to different animals. I think most people
           | do so, the assignment seems to be a sort of emergent property
           | of the local society within which any individual is brought
           | up.
        
           | wruza wrote:
           | In my book about distant civilizations they eradicate all
           | life except the forms that are able to function as you
           | described. Because it's pointless to just avoid participating
           | in a meat grinder that life itself is naturally. The point is
           | to stop anything that suffers from suffering. They dream
           | about visiting every world and eradicating unascended lifes
           | there for that same reason.
        
             | mmooss wrote:
             | > it's pointless to just avoid participating in a meat
             | grinder that life itself is naturally.
             | 
             | We've revolutionized human life over a few generations, and
             | even more over a few hundred years. One outcome is that you
             | can communicate freely - politically and technologically -
             | with people all over the world. And you use that to say how
             | pointless it is to try to improve.
             | 
             | Think bigger and better. People did all that work to get us
             | to this point; what will we do? How will we pull our
             | weight?
             | 
             | The only thing you have to fear is trendy contempt itself.
        
           | jraph wrote:
           | > Why is a carrot's life less important than a rabbit's?
           | 
           | A rabbit probably ate a lot of carrots, you are better off
           | eating just the carrot directly if you want to reduce the
           | killing :-)
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | A trolley hurtling down the tracks towards a rabbit, and if
             | you pull a lever it will go on to a different track that
             | kills the same number of carrot plants that the rabbit has
             | already eaten in its lifetime...
        
               | labster wrote:
               | And then the rabbit pulls the reverse lever, and the
               | trolley is speeding back towards Elmer Fudd.
        
           | tialaramex wrote:
           | Many years ago my lecturer, Professor Stevan Harnad drew the
           | line at backbones, if you have a spine or similar arrangement
           | it's not OK to eat you. These days Harnad is a Vegan, which
           | entails prohibition against a much larger array of animals
           | being eaten or indeed taken advantage of in any way for your
           | benefit.
           | 
           | There is no reason to imagine that if there was alien life it
           | would be able to comprehend us at all, for fictional
           | convenience it has been usual to depict aliens as basically
           | just humans in Halloween costume and there is every reason to
           | assume they would be entirely incomprehensible instead. Even
           | in soft SF, try say Iain M Banks' repeated reference to other
           | forms of life which show essentially no interest in the scale
           | of events that our human-like characters are engaged with.
           | The Stellar Field Liner, a vast entity living in the
           | magnetosphere of a star, the Excession, seemingly a living
           | portal to other universes, or even just the Dirigible
           | Behemothaurs which are island sized creatures that think a
           | Galactic Cycle (225 million Earth years) is not very long.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | Mm.
             | 
             | So, are The Affront the literary equivalent of a human in a
             | halloween costume? Extreme sadism as the only definiting
             | trait I can recall, so they probably count as Planet of
             | Hats* even if the physiology is too different to be a
             | costume department's job in a TV show.
             | 
             | * https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats
        
               | tialaramex wrote:
               | Sure, it's really hard to do SF where you have aliens and
               | keep them alien, because they no longer fulfil ordinary
               | plot parameters. The key characters in the parallel story
               | in Greg Egan's novel "Incandescence" aren't humans, never
               | have been humans, and they live somewhere that humans
               | would immediately die horribly and we'd need an XKCD
               | "What if?" discussion to figure out how they die exactly
               | 'cos they're much too close to a collapsed star and
               | there's also no Oxygen and you can bet everything is
               | totally saturated in radiation... They're probably...
               | tiny? Nevertheless, they're our protagonists for fully
               | half of a novel, so, they're going to get humanized.
        
           | lkbm wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure you draw the same line:
           | 
           | * Pealing a carrot: not cruel
           | 
           | * Skinning a rabbit alive: unnecessarily cruel
           | 
           | For all the nonsense about plants experiencing "pain", they,
           | uh, don't. Animals do. Outside of bad philosophical
           | arguments, everyone behaves broadly in accordance with that
           | belief.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | I certainly behave as though plants do not experience pain.
             | 
             | However: plants are only noticeably animate in time-lapse
             | footage, and have no mouth with which to scream.
             | 
             | I have no idea why the particular electrochemical
             | properties of the neurotransmitter exchange membranes in my
             | body are able to give rise to qualia, so without that I
             | can't rule out plants doing that but _very slowly_.
             | 
             | Of course, if they do, then my skin may have an independent
             | qualia to my kidneys let alone to what I call "me", so as
             | you say, I don't live my life as if it were so.
        
           | aylmao wrote:
           | I know a lot of people choose to draw lines, but I personally
           | don't think it's necessarily a "line" one has to draw. I
           | think this is best thought of as a gradient. A rabbit is more
           | like us, than a carrot. It has eyes, a backbone, moms take
           | care of their babies, etc. We look at a dogs and can clearly
           | see loyalty, happiness, longing, etc-- emotions we associate
           | a lot with humanity.
           | 
           | Where these animals fall in the "they're similar to a human"
           | gradient is highly subjective, especially since it may have
           | an emotional component to it. But we don't have to all agree
           | on the definition of this gradient when the consequences
           | (what to eat) are very personal.
           | 
           | I will say though I admire this in humans. We have achieved
           | plentifulness to the point we can attach moral and emotional
           | meaning to our diet if we wish to. It's a pretty unique
           | expression of our empathy.
        
             | Waterluvian wrote:
             | Where there's a gradient and a binary decision, there's
             | absolutely a line.
        
             | tripper_27 wrote:
             | Hey, will say your right about "seems similar to human",
             | but behavior such as moms taking care of their babies is
             | found in many plant species, as is loyalty. Probably
             | happiness and longing as well.
             | 
             | Ask yourself how many of these feelings arise from the
             | rational thinking part of your brain vs how they seem to be
             | full body sensations, and realize that the central nervous
             | system might allow such signals/awareness to propagate at
             | mammal speed, but why would a plant need that speed?
             | 
             | There really is no reason why a CNS is needed for these
             | emotions to be active, just a way to distribute
             | hormones/chemical signals throughout the body.
        
           | otikik wrote:
           | I think the distinction has always been between "alive" and
           | "conscious", not between "alive" and "dead". A rabbit is more
           | self-aware than a carrot, we think (because it has a central
           | nervous system).
           | 
           | If you dig deep enough, the frontier between alive and death
           | is actually blurry. Things like viruses challenge the
           | intuitive understanding of what alive means.
           | 
           | The water cycle makes it so that any water that you consume
           | today will probably have been part of some other alive being
           | at some point in the past.
        
             | flysand7 wrote:
             | Well according to biological taxonomy, viruses aren't
             | "life", so the terms "alive" and "dead" don't quite apply
             | to them
        
           | tayo42 wrote:
           | Some creatures are really weird too. Cutting up urchins for
           | uni made me think what is really alive or what animals really
           | are
        
           | tzs wrote:
           | > Plants are alive. Why is a carrot's life less important
           | than a rabbit's?
           | 
           | Some have indeed wondered about plant rights. There is even a
           | vegetable rights protest song, "Carrot Juice is Murder" [1].
           | 
           | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM
        
           | sharpshadow wrote:
           | Well said a carrot and a rabbit are equal you can eat both.
        
         | jajko wrote:
         | But there will never ever be such guarantee that could be taken
         | seriously. How do you know that 2 star generations ago (so say
         | roughly 10 billion years ago), in our previous neighborhood, a
         | massive hypernova wiped out advanced civilization and you are
         | now just consuming molecules that were once part of sentient
         | living being, even with IQ much higher than yours?
         | 
         | Nah, you can never be 100% sure, its one of those situations
         | reachable only on paper.
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | The phrasing "any _known_ living organism " already excludes
           | that.
           | 
           | Even if it didn't, a guarantee in product marketing is a
           | promise and quasi-legal committment, not a certification of
           | objective universal cosmic truth.
           | 
           | In some cases, everybody _knows_ that statistically there
           | will be at least one case where the guarantee is broken, but
           | that doesn 't void anything.
        
       | pugworthy wrote:
       | This seems like the ultimate in ultra-processed / factory food.
       | 
       | Kind of interesting to read the comments on the other recent post
       | on ultra-processed foods
       | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42246739) and consider the
       | arguments made against there and whether they would apply here.
        
         | adastra22 wrote:
         | You would likely use this "food" to feed more traditional
         | agriculture for human consumption. A better way of positioning
         | it is processing the content of abiotic asteroids into a
         | biological system capable of providing nourishment to
         | astronauts and space colonists.
        
           | roughly wrote:
           | The article says the cost of feeding one astronaut for one
           | year is around 5,000-160,000 tons of ore per year. My
           | understanding is the rule of thumb is about an order of
           | magnitude nutritional drop off each step - that is, to
           | produce 100cal of meat requires 1000cal of plant food.
           | Bumping those yield estimates, especially the pessimistic
           | end, up by another factor of 10 is just a phenomenal amount
           | of material to process for one person for one year.
        
             | Teever wrote:
             | That's just the mass you need to extract the resources that
             | make up the food that one person consumes in a year.
             | Assuming you don't just space the human waste and instead
             | reuse it you'll be accumulating material that can make up
             | the biomass that will comprise a large and intricate food
             | web that will eventually make up the biomes of large
             | O'Neill cylinder stations.
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | I didn't read the paper in depth, just skimmed it, but it
             | seems like their assumption is that the astronauts will be
             | eating some sort of microbe slurry; so I _think_ that the
             | cost includes only that, not using microbes to feed higher-
             | order life or growing plants.
        
               | roughly wrote:
               | Agree, but the post I was responding to was suggesting it
               | be used as an agricultural feedstock to feed things the
               | astronauts eat - that's where my order-of-magnitude
               | calculation came from.
        
       | 4b11b4 wrote:
       | still need fiber though
        
       | pyrolistical wrote:
       | Wouldn't it be simpler to do what the Martian did?
       | 
       | Bring low mass items: seed and bacteria.
       | 
       | Mine high mass items: dirt and water.
       | 
       | Concentrate sunlight
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | Where exactly do you mine "dirt" from on a planet that hasn't
         | had any sort of biosphere to create it? Dirt isn't just "stuff
         | you're standing on" - it contains a lot of _stuff_ that 's been
         | decomposing.
         | 
         | Plus, Mars is full of chemical compounds that we suspect are
         | pretty terrible for you, and the Moon's regolith is full of
         | jagged, sharp bits that aren't good for you or the plants
         | they're growing in.
         | 
         | Mining "dirt" from most of the places we can get to would do as
         | good of a job of growing food as grinding up your windows &
         | plumbing.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | From the viewpoint of a space colony food is a renewable resource
       | as after humans "consume" the food the food is now CO2 and other
       | waste products. Martians may vent CO2 but I'd think asteroid
       | colonists would seek to recycle every bit of volatile that they
       | can.
        
       | ForOldHack wrote:
       | Yes, but without a proper replicator, how does it taste? Burnt
       | toast? Three week old socks? Munster cheese?
        
       | amanaplanacanal wrote:
       | Velikovsky hypothesized that the manna of the ancient Israelites
       | was hydrocarbons from meteors magically transformed into
       | carbohydrate. It's good to see that his important research is
       | being continued ;-)
        
       | fenollp wrote:
       | > The asteroid mass needed to support one astronaut for one year
       | is between 160 000 metric tons and 5000 metric tons.
       | 
       | Even these orders of magnitude are correct, this is still
       | 14t-438t of material to process /per day/ just for one person.
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | Eating like an elephant, I see
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | Reading these threads, I am reminded of a short story I once
       | read, where we invented transporters, but every time you went
       | through one, a copy stepped out, and left you in this weird limbo
       | world, like in _The Langoliers_. You couldn't actually eat or
       | drink anything, so transportees became cannibals, and killed and
       | ate newcomers.
        
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