[HN Gopher] Poisoning the Day
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Poisoning the Day
        
       Author : tollandlebas
       Score  : 163 points
       Date   : 2024-11-22 11:23 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ashore.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ashore.io)
        
       | rob74 wrote:
       | > _the producer of pretty much every contemporary pop singer
       | you've heard of_
       | 
       | While his portfolio is no doubt impressive (including names such
       | as Taylor Swift, Lana del Rey and Lorde), this is still a bit too
       | much hyperbole for my taste...
        
         | jheriko wrote:
         | but none of these people are actually good, so its ok.
        
       | aflukasz wrote:
       | Fun take.
       | 
       | I suggest countering it with a concept of "day reusability". You
       | know, just as with rockets...
        
       | cadamsau wrote:
       | Seems to be the exhaustion that happens when you've built up
       | waste products that need to be cleared by sleep.
       | 
       | But has anyone found success re-establishing that fresh mind
       | without sleeping?
       | 
       | Maybe meditation can help?
        
         | ClearAndPresent wrote:
         | You might enjoy this discussion:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41942096
        
           | sudahtigabulan wrote:
           | The pattern didn't work on me, but maybe because I only
           | watched a couple of cycles on my phone.
           | 
           | Has anyone had the experience where if you try to watch an
           | anthill (or just many ants in one place), your vision gets
           | out of focus after a couple of seconds? And you can't just
           | re-focus, even after turning away from the ants. It takes a
           | while until you are able to focus again.
           | 
           | It's very relaxing. I'm wondering if this is the same effect
           | they are after with the animation.
        
         | GistNoesis wrote:
         | The Magic of Not Giving a F** :
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwRzjFQa_Og
        
           | WJW wrote:
           | It's always been ironic that a book about not caring what
           | other people think needs to censor the word "fuck" in its
           | very title.
        
             | hackable_sand wrote:
             | That book is full of ironies. It is the energy drink
             | equivalent of motivation.
        
         | dainiusse wrote:
         | Perhaps nsdr (popularized by Huberman).
        
       | cess11 wrote:
       | "Helpfully, this is one area of productivity where people with
       | children are actually ahead of the curve.
       | 
       | Because kids are professional day poisoners."
       | 
       | When it's legal and otherwise sound I prefer to work and do
       | business with parents for partly this reason. If they've managed
       | to navigate the first few years of broken sleep and don't use
       | work as escapism, then they're probably pretty hardy.
        
         | ndjdjddjsjj wrote:
         | If you want something done ask the busiest person you know
        
       | Etheryte wrote:
       | This feels like an incredibly elaborate way to say that he's a
       | morning person. There's plenty of people for whom the entire
       | thing works the exact opposite, and of course loads of people
       | everywhere in between. I wouldn't really read deep into this,
       | it's one of those takes that tries really hard to sound profound,
       | but it really isn't.
        
         | kelvinjps10 wrote:
         | Did you read the article?, is about doing the importnat stuff
         | when no one is around to distract you. >Not an early riser? No
         | problem, just flip it.
         | 
         | Avoid the day. And when it's done, that's when your focussed
         | work starts (my favourite adherent of this approach is Demis
         | Hassabis: who works a "second day" from between 11pm and 4am).
        
           | Y_Y wrote:
           | I read the article and had the same response as GP. I don't
           | know on what basis the author believes you can "flip it", but
           | it seems at odds with the idea that at some point your day is
           | "poisoned" and the rest must be written off, presumably until
           | you can reset it by sleeping.
        
             | Tade0 wrote:
             | I guess it follows that one should... take a nap in
             | between?
        
           | UnreachableCode wrote:
           | How do you flip it though? What does that really mean?
        
             | ted_bunny wrote:
             | Maybe it means finding an antidote rather than a poison.
             | Dealing with bullshit first until you get inspired, and
             | then doing the focused work.
        
             | boo-ga-ga wrote:
             | It can be a different thing for each person. For example,
             | you might have some evening ritual that allows you to
             | refresh your mind. Like an easy nice run. And then, with
             | disabled notifications and clear mind, you can tackle your
             | creative endeavors:).
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | I find that advice vague. What does "avoiding the day" even
           | mean?
           | 
           | Anyway, for me it was easier to wake up earlier than try to
           | do focused work after an exhausting day with children. Doing
           | stuff in the middle of the night is a privilege of the
           | childless anyway.
        
             | jeltz wrote:
             | Nah, I have several friends who work in the middle of the
             | night after the kids have gone to sleep. That seems to be
             | the the optimal solution for evening persons with kids.
        
           | glitchc wrote:
           | This is not possible to do in most workplaces, unless it's
           | remote and the time zone difference works in your favour.
        
         | frou_dh wrote:
         | If you don't wanna read elaborations on known concepts then
         | don't read articles.
         | 
         | I think simplistic terms like "morning person" and "night owl"
         | are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliche
         | applied to identity. Much like "introvert" and "extrovert".
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | Well I think they refer to the genetic make-up of the
           | circadian timing system, as mentioned in
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_owl .
        
             | vundercind wrote:
             | Most modern night owls just have very bright whole-house
             | lighting and a world-class 24/7 carnival in their pockets.
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | Does the following part mean they're a morning person, or is it
         | orthogonal?
         | 
         | > _"Every day is a new beginning. You wake up and at some point
         | in the day, someone shoots up a school, or something's going on
         | with your family, or you wake up and eat the wrong thing. And
         | then you're done. Emotionally cooked. Literally and emotionally
         | poisoned._
         | 
         | > _Every day I wake up and can get to the studio before
         | something has shattered my existence, I am grateful. And I can
         | do things._
        
           | safety1st wrote:
           | Yeah it sounds like he's just terminally online. The whole
           | idea here did not resonate with me at all. If I have serious
           | work to do I isolate myself and do it until it's done or I'm
           | out of steam.
           | 
           | If the day "poisons" me that means I should have been more
           | disciplined - the correct answer to consuming news media, for
           | instance, is always to consume less of it. If someone is
           | consistently poisoning my day the answer is to reduce contact
           | with them.
        
             | cocacola1 wrote:
             | That's what he says, though, at least in the context of
             | Antonoff. He gets to the studio and gets to work without
             | being sidetracked or letting other things sidetrack him.
             | The "poison" is just the distractions to avoid.
        
           | anal_reactor wrote:
           | Yes, this means he's a morning person. I feel great in the
           | evening because I'm done with all the shit that happened
           | during the day, now it's finally "me-time". There's nothing
           | like a sudden wave of energy at 3AM. In the mornings I always
           | think about all the unpleasant stuff that is going to happen
           | during the day.
        
         | nomilk wrote:
         | Tangental but I noted this quote from 4HWW:
         | 
         | > Ask: if this is the only thing I accomplish today, will I be
         | satisfied with my day? Don't ever arrive at your computer
         | without a clear list of priorities, you'll just read
         | unassociated email and scramble your brain for the day.
         | 
         | When I read that last bit ("scramble your brain") I had a
         | profound sense of agreement that this was incredibly applicable
         | to me. I feel like distractions 'poison' my vibe, productivity,
         | priorities, and most importantly, distract that bit of my brain
         | that ticks away in the background working on important creative
         | stuff. When it's distracted with news, emails, or other junk,
         | it's unavailable to work on creative/important problems that
         | actually matter.
        
           | user_7832 wrote:
           | Is 4hww 4 hour work week, the book, that you're referring to?
           | It's a good quote!
        
             | postoplust wrote:
             | (not OP) Yes, the quoted strategy is from The 4-Hour
             | Workweek (Ferriss 2007)
        
         | omgtehlion wrote:
         | Maybe he is, but the advice stays for "evening-persons" too.
         | I'm not an early bird, but I noticed that I am most productive
         | when I pull all-nighters, when nothing happens and when no one
         | bothers me. With age it is harder and harder to do though...
        
         | anal_reactor wrote:
         | Exactly this.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > This feels like an incredibly elaborate way to say that he's
         | a morning person.
         | 
         | If you read the whole article there's a section dedicated to
         | evening people.
         | 
         | Regardless, the advice is about avoiding emotionally draining
         | stimuli until you've accomplished what you want to do for the
         | day.
         | 
         | You can wake up at noon and still do that. The root problem is
         | that people are consuming large amounts of negative news and
         | social media early in the day and draining their mental
         | capacity before they even get started on what they want to do.
         | 
         | I see this all the time in, for example, junior hires. Some of
         | them will tell me they're exhausted or they have no time to do
         | anything outside of their 40 hour workweek. When I ask some
         | questions to figure out where their time is going every day, it
         | always comes down to spending so much time on phones and
         | watching Netflix that their time and energy are fully consumed
         | before they have a chance at anything else.
         | 
         | The advice in the article is good and it's not about being a
         | morning person.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | > You can wake up at noon and still do that.
           | 
           | That's not necessarily true. If you're a morning person
           | managing other people that are not morning people but insist
           | on having daily meetings in the morning, you're an asshole. I
           | find meetings early in the morning sadistic and way more
           | draining than reading the news, but I'm not the type that
           | gets emotional about the news while I will react negatively
           | in an early meeting at the drop of a pin. It's not about
           | needing coffee nor did I get up on the wrong side of the bed
           | or whatever demeaning quip you want to offer. I'm not up to
           | speed until later in the day, and forcing me to pretend I am
           | is just rude. This is the biggest downside to WFH where
           | everyone can live in whatever timezone so someone's afternoon
           | meeting is my morning rather than just scheduling the meeting
           | where everyone is on the same schedule. It's one of the few
           | things about working in an office I can appreciate.
           | Definitely not to be misread as a vote for RTO.
        
             | adamauckland wrote:
             | If you're a morning person and you're scheduling meetings
             | for the morning you're literally wasting your period of
             | productivity.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | I couldn't agree more
        
               | tdeck wrote:
               | Unless the closest you ever get to productivity is having
               | meetings :).
        
             | groby_b wrote:
             | > If you're a morning person managing other people that are
             | not morning people but insist on having daily meetings in
             | the morning, you're an asshole.
             | 
             | This of course raises the question why forcing morning
             | meetings on morning people is an asshole move, but forcing
             | morning people to meet afternoon people in the afternoon is
             | OK.
             | 
             | Can I suggest that maybe we all need to put on our big-
             | boy/girl pants and accept that the world has more people
             | than ourselves? And that this means we all need to
             | compromise from time to time?
             | 
             | It is absolutely impossible to get any team efforts done in
             | a world where everybody insists we all exclusively work in
             | their own preferred style of work.
        
           | mindslight wrote:
           | > _If you read the whole article there's a section dedicated
           | to evening people._
           | 
           | It's a perfunctory mention of the exact kind morning people
           | commonly throw out to superficially address an evening
           | person's actual constraints.
           | 
           | The article's whole thesis is that after some point in the
           | day your emotions will end up fried. An evening person can't
           | simply flip the arrow of time to make it so that _before_
           | that point in the day, their emotions have started off fried
           | but then get unfried afterwards. Rather completely different
           | approaches are needed.
           | 
           | The most important part of any meta thinking is to know
           | thyself. I'm sure this article is thoroughly useful for a
           | subset of people, but not me. It would be nice if authors
           | were upfront about the constraints they are writing from, and
           | especially if they didn't try to hand wave them away.
           | 
           | For myself, the news does not significantly affect my
           | emotions more than a handful of times per year. I'm certainly
           | not getting exposed to it or other goings-on through
           | adversarial notifications. And my actual mobile pocket device
           | generally lives by the door. Those are basic table stakes for
           | _my own_ existence.
        
             | rolisz wrote:
             | I have small kids, so at the moment I'm a "whenever I have
             | 5-10 quiet minutes" at a time person.
             | 
             | But I remember that I used to be an evening person. And
             | what I remember is that in the evening things got quiet in
             | my head. Yes, usually "emotional" things happened during
             | the day, but after 8-9 PM I had a boost of clarity and
             | could get some difficult tasks.
        
             | pseudosavant wrote:
             | No matter what time you are getting up, I think this is
             | suggesting that if there is something important for you to
             | get done, it is better to get it done sooner than later. I
             | am a complete night owl, but leaving the most important
             | items to the end of the day has rarely been a winning plan
             | for me.
        
         | vonnik wrote:
         | He's really talking about how to maintain focus and
         | neurological energy, but doesn't have the right words.
         | 
         | Fwiw, I wrote about it here:
         | 
         | https://vonnik.substack.com/p/the-inner-game-of-knowledge-wo...
         | 
         | It's something I struggle with, too.
        
           | high_priest wrote:
           | I love how you have connected the dots between evaluation of
           | ideas, metaphorisation & invention of consciousness. Linking
           | to relevant book.
           | 
           | I've come up with the same, internalised, realisation, based
           | on my relation with religion & science. Both are a way to
           | describe our world with metaphors (e.g. electric & water
           | currents). At some point, for some people, one is a more
           | attractive way, to describe our relation with the
           | environment.
        
         | julianeon wrote:
         | There's something it it though that's not interchangeable, that
         | becomes a bigger factor as you age (see: that Bezos quote).
         | 
         | The brain is becoming more physically tired during the day. At
         | a certain point, say 5pm, it's done: the accumulated wear and
         | tear is too much. Try again after sleeping.
         | 
         | This might not be a concern at 20 but is at 60 (Bezos' age).
        
         | devjab wrote:
         | I think there is some sound advice in there that just happens
         | to fit into his mornings. Take always like having your day
         | poisoned by news, stuff in your life and so on would also occur
         | for you if you woke up later. I do agree that it's not that
         | deep. Anyone who's bipolar has ADHD or other "doesn't fit into
         | the 9-5 society" issues can likely tell you how their emotions
         | will fuck with their productivity.
         | 
         | There isn't a whole lot you can do with it if you don't have
         | the freedom to work when you're energised and stop when you're
         | not. A lot of us in the software industry have the advantage of
         | being able to not work a lot during "normal hours" and then
         | pull off an entire weeks worth of work on a Saturday, but a lot
         | of us don't. I worked 30 hours a week for a while (37 is normal
         | in Denmark) and I consistently scores between 20-30% better on
         | our infernal measurements for quality and productivity than I
         | did when I went back to a 37 hour week. Not because I was doing
         | anything different, felt less motivated or was intentionally
         | trying to do anything different. I was simply more tired and it
         | impacted me more than it might do to neurotypical (or whatever
         | we call healthy people these days). Of course for me personally
         | the 37 hours are way better because it pays 20% more.
         | 
         | Anyway, even if you aren't neurodivergent like me I still
         | suspect you're not cut out to do office work as though you were
         | at an assembly line. Which is really where the modern "work
         | week" originated. Cutting down on distractions, getting enough
         | sleep and so on will obviously work in your favour. So yeah, I
         | agree with you.
        
       | shubhamjain wrote:
       | Focusing on a small unit of work (e.g, a day), can make you lose
       | sight of the bigger picture, like how you need a break, or what
       | you're working on isn't motivating anymore, which is why I kind
       | of dislike most productivity advice.
       | 
       | Too much focus on how to optimise your day, your schedule and not
       | much emphasis on how to feel motivated about work you're doing.
        
       | f3b5 wrote:
       | > _I sincerely doubt that anything great in the history of
       | humanity has been built in the post-lunch afternoon_
       | 
       | Interestingly, late afternoon is the time that I am most
       | productive when coding. At 6pm when work ends I often feel that I
       | could easily go on for another few hours
        
         | import_gravity wrote:
         | I'm in the same boat where 6pm comes and I actually have a hard
         | time shifting gears from writing code or thinking intensely
         | about my project. I've been working on my focus and starting
         | earlier in the day. The difference is when I get on track
         | earlier I still chug along until the end of the day. Then by
         | night I'm exhausted and go to bed early.
         | 
         | Work/life balance is important so I should probably listen to
         | my body and focus when it wants to.
        
       | brador wrote:
       | There is option 2: work slower, with a list.
        
       | afh1 wrote:
       | If you don't have a good night's sleep your day is poisoned from
       | the start. That compounds to life-ruining status if not quickly
       | addressed.
        
       | j_crick wrote:
       | > no sudden alert about Putin's latest military actions
       | 
       | I think it's a bit condescending towards people whose day quite
       | physically depends on the absence of this kind of news. It's not
       | like Putin is invading Manhattan currently.
        
       | eptcyka wrote:
       | Having moved to an entirely on-sore job, I really long for the
       | days when I could wake up around noon and be incredibly
       | productive after 20:00. Nowadays, it is a struggle to wake up at
       | 06:00 and get to the office to get some things done before the
       | heat of the day sets in. I resonate with this deeply.
        
       | Aurornis wrote:
       | This is good advice, though people are getting distracted by the
       | unnecessary morning/evening talk.
       | 
       | This is a real problem for people who have a habit of reading a
       | lot of news and social media first thing in the morning. Some
       | people show up to work having consumed hours of the latest rage-
       | bait on Reddit, sky-is-falling takes on Twitter, and news about
       | the latest wars, disasters, and political problems. They're
       | emotionally and mentally burdened before they even get started on
       | work.
       | 
       | It often manifests as people claiming they don't have any time to
       | do anything outside of their 40 hour work weeks. I've mentored
       | several early 20s people working relatively easy jobs, having no
       | significant other or kids, and no real obligations who lament how
       | they never have time or energy to do anything after working 40
       | hour jobs. Every single time having them check their screen time
       | stats results in eye-popping amounts of Reddit, Twitter, TikTok,
       | and other endless streams of stress and ragebait content. Putting
       | a 30 minute limit on these apps with their phone's built-in tools
       | can work wonders on fixing their lives.
        
       | jheriko wrote:
       | there are some interesting points here but a lot of it is just
       | acknowledging lack of quality and willpower.
       | 
       | do better. try harder.
        
       | world2vec wrote:
       | This was a vapid and useless article. "Just be a morning person",
       | gee thanks that sounds awful to me.
        
       | cocacola1 wrote:
       | What they're saying is that I shouldn't be scrolling Hacker News
       | at 7:28am. Understood.
       | 
       | This advice holds true for me. The days I don't have anything
       | bother me go well. The days that I do, don't.
        
       | brailsafe wrote:
       | True, this is why Deep Work is a book people like. Optimizing how
       | much time you can spend without any interruption, immersed in
       | where you attention needs to be and not where it doesn't, but
       | don't expect too much of it, it'll get poisoned and it's not
       | sustainable to think or act otherwise.
        
       | corytheboyd wrote:
       | Generally agree with the sentiment that you should stop trying to
       | create if you lose the spark. Don't understand this idea that you
       | HAVE to pay attention to social media and world news. Just don't?
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | I'm definitely also heading increasingly to "digital minimalism".
       | 
       | Or maybe _online_ minimalism. The  "digital" is kind of
       | orthogonal.
        
       | ddellacosta wrote:
       | For someone who suffers from anxiety like myself, and therefore
       | empathizes well with the perspective in the article (i.e. an
       | emotionally-charged event can have an impact on my productivity):
       | 
       | I think a better approach is to focus on becoming emotionally
       | resilient so that things don't overwhelm so easily, or so it's
       | possible to reset even given an emotional challenge. At least,
       | that has been critical in my life to avoid spirals of self-
       | recrimination or agonizing over things I can't affect or control.
        
         | munificent wrote:
         | I agree with this, but I also don't think the strategies are
         | mutually exclusive.
         | 
         | Especially if what you want to be productive on is art, it's
         | good to take advantage of the time when you feel most connected
         | to yourself. But I find that connection requires lowering _all_
         | of my defenses, including to the outside world. So it 's still
         | best to do that before I've been beset by the news.
         | 
         | At the same time, being more resilient can help me get other
         | useful stuff done through the rest of the day, including stuff
         | that is sort of adjacent to the art-making process. (For
         | example, I make music and it's hard to find an inspired melody
         | later in the afternoon when my head is aswirl with the chaos of
         | the world, but I can still putter around with sound design and
         | mixing.)
        
           | ddellacosta wrote:
           | > I agree with this, but I also don't think the strategies
           | are mutually exclusive.
           | 
           | Yes I absolutely agree, and I should have said it. Thank you
           | for making this point.
           | 
           | Emotional resiliency is not just about receiving negative
           | stimuli and recovering from that. It's as much about knowing
           | yourself well, knowing what kinds of situations or stimuli
           | you should try to avoid or minimize, and knowing where and
           | when you can best function to your full potential. So I very
           | much agree with what you're saying.
        
       | thimkerbell wrote:
       | Weird pattern, that posts with titles like that seem to surface
       | around Thanksgiving.
       | 
       | Russian? Chinese?
        
         | workflowing wrote:
         | American?
        
           | thimkerbell wrote:
           | Could be. The time I noticed it in a travel nexus, everyone
           | (young adult, white) was speaking unaccented English. (again,
           | just before TG)
        
       | IAmGraydon wrote:
       | I think I'm pretty good at productivity, and to me it's the
       | opposite. You don't let the outside events poison the day. You
       | know how to get things done despite all that. If your day is
       | controlling you, you'll never control your destiny.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-11-26 23:00 UTC)