[HN Gopher] Open-interpreter: A natural language interface for c...
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       Open-interpreter: A natural language interface for computers
        
       Author : 2-3-7-43-1807
       Score  : 69 points
       Date   : 2024-11-18 11:06 UTC (7 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | cxr wrote:
       | It's funny that we're getting so much attention funneled towards
       | the thought-to-machine I/O problem now that LLMs are on the
       | scene.
       | 
       | If the improvements are beneficial now, then surely they were
       | beneficial before.
       | 
       | Prior to LLMs, though, we could have been making judicious use of
       | simple algorithmic approaches to process natural language
       | constructs as command language. We didn't see a lot of interest
       | in it.
        
         | samtheprogram wrote:
         | Uh, we did...? Alexa, Siri, Ok Google...
         | 
         | A lot of money was poured into that goal, but because every
         | type of action required a handcrafted integration, they were
         | either costly to develop or extremely limited. That's no longer
         | the case.
        
           | cxr wrote:
           | > Alexa, Siri, Ok Google
           | 
           | Complex digital assistants aiming to be do-everything
           | secretaries are not what I had in mind when I said "simple
           | algorithmic approaches".
           | 
           | That aside, which of those were attempts to improve input to
           | a computer like the project submitted here? Everything you
           | listed was most focused on (a) trying to establish voice as a
           | valid input method (b) to create a new class of applications
           | (c) for more-or-less locked down devices. (The one assistant
           | that's closest to what I'm referring to--but still misses the
           | mark--is the one you didn't mention: Cortana.)
           | 
           | > because every type of action required a handcrafted
           | integration, they were either costly to develop or extremely
           | limited
           | 
           | That describes all conventional software--think of everything
           | you do on your computer. How many lines of code across how
           | many different software packages, each handcrafted, are on
           | your computer? And how narrow versus broad and featureful is
           | each one (calc.exe, for example)? "Do one thing and do it
           | well" is an entire, night regarded philosophical outlook
           | about how to make great software.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | > Prior to LLMs, though, we could have been making judicious
         | use of simple algorithmic approaches to process natural
         | language constructs as command language. We didn't see a lot of
         | interest in it.
         | 
         | Siri was released in 2011, and Alexa and Google Assistant
         | followed soon thereafter. Companies spent tens of millions of
         | dollars improving their algorithmic NLP because voice
         | interfaces were "the future". I took a class in the late 2010s
         | that went over all of the methodologies that they used for
         | intent parsing and slot filling. All of that has been largely
         | abandoned at this point in favor of LLMs for everything.
         | 
         | My hope is that at some point people will come back to these UI
         | paradigms as we realize the limitations of "everything is a
         | chat bot". There's a simplicity to the context-free limited
         | voice assistants that had a set of specific use cases they
         | could handle, and the effort to chatbot everything is starting
         | to destroy the legitimate use cases that came out of that era
         | like timers and reminders.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | I have a somewhat different perspective. The way I see it,
           | for the past 10+ years, the major vendors were going out of
           | their way to try for generic NLP interface. At that point,
           | it's already been known that controlled language[0] +
           | environmental context could allow for highly functional voice
           | control. But for some reason[1], the vendors really wanted
           | for assistants to guess what people mean. As a result, we got
           | 10+ years of shitty assistants that couldn't reliably do
           | anything, not even set a goddamn timer, and weren't able to
           | do much either - it's hard to have many complex features when
           | you can't get the few simplest ones right.
           | 
           | This was a bad direction then. Now, for better or worse, all
           | those vendors got their miracle: LLMs are literally plug-and-
           | play boxes that implement the "parse arbitrary natural-
           | language queries and map them to system capabilities"
           | functionality. Thanks to LLMs, voice interfaces could
           | actually start working. If vendors could also get the "having
           | useful functionality" part right.
           | 
           | (Note: this is distinct from "everything is a chat bot".
           | That's a bad idea simply because _typing text sucks_ ,
           | specifically typing out your thoughts in prose form is about
           | the least efficient way to interact with a tool. Voice
           | interfaces are an exception here.)
           | 
           | --
           | 
           | [0] -
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_natural_language
           | 
           | [1] - Perhaps this weird idea that controlled languages are
           | too hard for general population, too much like programming,
           | or such. They're not. More generally, we've always had to
           | "meet in the middle" with our machines, and it was - and
           | remains - always a highly successful approach.
        
         | throwaway290 wrote:
         | People have some solution so they are searching for problems it
         | can fit. Doesn't mean it's the best one...
        
         | regularfry wrote:
         | COBOL and SQL would like a word.
        
       | smlacy wrote:
       | I find the "Can you ..." phrasing used in this demo/project
       | fascinating. I would have expected the LLM to basically say "Yes
       | I can, would you like me to do it?" to most of these questions,
       | rather than directly and immediately executing the action.
        
         | iamjackg wrote:
         | I'm very curious why you think that! Sincerely. These models
         | undergo significant human-aided training where people express a
         | preference for certain behaviours, and that is fed back into
         | the training process: I feel like the behaviour you mention
         | would probably be trained out pretty quickly since most people
         | would find it unhelpful, but I'm really just guessing.
        
         | jasonjmcghee wrote:
         | If an employer were to ask an employee, "can you write up this
         | report and send it to me" and they said, "yes I can, would you
         | like me to do it?", I think it would be received poorly. I
         | believe this is a close approximation of the relationship
         | people tend to have with chatgpt.
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | Depends, the 'can you' (or 'can I get') phrasing appears to
           | be a USA English thing.
           | 
           | Managers often expect subordinates to just know what they
           | mean, but checking instructions and requirements is usually
           | essential and imo is a mark of a good worker.
           | 
           | "Can you dispose of our latest product in a landfill"...
           | 
           | Generally in UK, unless the person is a major consumer of USA
           | media, "can you" is an enquiry as to capability or whether an
           | action is within the rules.
           | 
           | IME. YMMV.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | What distinguishes LLMs from classical computing is that
         | they're very much not pedantic. Because the model is predicting
         | what human text would follow a given piece of content, you can
         | generally expect them to react approximately the way that a
         | human would in writing.
         | 
         | In this example, if a human responded that way I would assume
         | they were either being passive aggressive or were autistic or
         | spoke English as a second language. A neurotypical native
         | speaker acting in good faith would invariably interpret the
         | question as a request, not a question.
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | In your locality.
           | 
           | I've asked LLM systems "can you..." questions. I'm asking
           | surely about their capability and allowed parameters of
           | operation.
           | 
           | Apparently you think that means I'm brain damaged?
        
             | gnabgib wrote:
             | Surely there's better Windmills for you to tilt at.
        
             | int_19h wrote:
             | LLMs are usually not aware of their true capabilities, so
             | the answers you get back have a high probability of being
             | hallucinated.
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | I finally got around to trying this out right now. Here's how to
       | run it using uvx (so you don't need to install anything first):
       | uvx --from open-interpreter interpreter
       | 
       | I took the simplest route and pasted in an OpenAI API key, then I
       | typed:                   find largest files on my desktop
       | 
       | It generated a couple of chunks of Python, asked my permission to
       | run them, ran them and gave me a good answer.
       | 
       | Here's the transcript:
       | https://gist.github.com/simonw/f78a2ebd2e06b821192ec91963995...
        
         | swyx wrote:
         | simon's writeup is here
         | https://simonwillison.net/2024/Nov/24/open-interpreter/
         | 
         | i always thought the potential for openinterpreter would be
         | kind of like an "open source chatgpt desktop assistant" app
         | with swappable llms. especially vision since that (specifically
         | the one teased at 4o's launch
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJHw33cVeHo) has not yet been
         | released by oai. they made some headway with the "o1" device
         | that they teased.. and then canceled.
         | 
         | instead all the demo usecases seem very trivial: "Plot AAPL and
         | META's normalized stock prices". "Add subtitles to all videos
         | in /videos" seems a bit more interesting but honestly trying to
         | hack it in a "code interpreter" inline in a terminal is
         | strictly worse than just opening up cursor for me.
         | 
         | i'd be interested if anyone here is active users of OI and what
         | you use it for.
        
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