[HN Gopher] Undersea Cables Connect the Global Internet
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       Undersea Cables Connect the Global Internet
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 51 points
       Date   : 2024-11-18 15:53 UTC (6 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nautil.us)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nautil.us)
        
       | khuey wrote:
       | As always, Neal Stephenson's Mother Earth Mother Board from 1996
       | is the must-read classic of this subject.
       | 
       | https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/
        
       | cj wrote:
       | Definitely an interesting writing style. Wasn't expecting to
       | learn that the internet "weighs" about as much as an apple.
       | 
       | The amount of analogies/comparisons used in this article is
       | incredible. I almost think it would be easier for the average
       | non-tech reader to understand if they compared it to something
       | more directly relatable, like the power lines that deliver
       | electricity to your house.
       | 
       | I wonder how much "weight" of electricity I consume per year.
        
         | dataflow wrote:
         | > Wasn't expecting to learn that the internet "weighs" about as
         | much as an apple.
         | 
         | Something doesn't make sense here. An electron is 1/2000th the
         | mass of a proton. So 1/2000th of the mass of your hard disk is
         | its electrons. So they're saying the entire internet runs on
         | thousands of hard disks? That seems off by several orders of
         | magnitude... what are they measuring?
        
           | Gare wrote:
           | Only some of those electrons can move freely.
        
           | K0HAX wrote:
           | The following are all based on assumptions I'm making.
           | 
           | The type of people who are likely to make analogies for how
           | much the internet might weigh are almost certainly not
           | physicists. They're probably smart, and they're probably used
           | to doing math (programmers), but they might miss details that
           | career physicists would think are obvious.
        
       | voxadam wrote:
       | Is it just me or does this page render improperly in Firefox
       | while appearing correct on Chrome. Interestingly, the homepage
       | looks correct in both browsers but the layout for the story pages
       | are wonky in Firefox.
       | 
       | -
       | 
       | Firefox 132.0.1 (64-bit)
       | 
       | Chrome 131.0.6778.85 (Official Build) (64-bit)
       | 
       | Fedora 41, KDE Plasma 6.2.3, AMD64
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | Using 132.0.2 (64-bit) on Arch Linux and I think the layout and
         | everything else is rendering perfectly fine? Try disabling
         | addons/extensions and/or use a private window, sometimes
         | removal of ads can shift things around.
        
         | AzzyHN wrote:
         | No issues here on Firefox 128.4.0esr, even with uBlock Origin
         | medium mode[1] blocking 31% of the page.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-
         | mode:-medium...
        
       | unsolved73 wrote:
       | Here is the map for the curious:
       | https://www.submarinecablemap.com
        
         | araes wrote:
         | Thank you for providing the reference.
         | 
         | That was my exact complaint on reading the article. "Seriously,
         | you went through that entire article, and never gave people the
         | ability to personally explore the cable connections themselves?
         | Shame."
         | 
         | Also, bonus content from recent news. The two cables cut are:
         | 
         | [1] (C-Lion1, Finland-Germany, this got referenced a bunch)
         | https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/c-lion1
         | 
         | [2] (BCS East-West Interlink, Lithuania-Sweden, kinda difficult
         | to find) https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/bcs-
         | east-w...
        
         | AzzyHN wrote:
         | > The telecommunications analytics agency TeleGeography
         | maintains an addictive map of all the world's undersea
         | cables[...]
         | 
         | They weren't kidding, it is addictive! I'm surprised that zero
         | undersea cables connect directly to the SF Bay Area, and how
         | many cables there are in the bay around Seattle/Vancouver.
         | 
         | And the Far North Fiber connecting Norway, Ireland, Alaska
         | (USA), and Japan, but none of the other countries it goes by on
         | the way. I wonder why.
        
       | andy_ppp wrote:
       | I wonder if we should design infrastructure that is resilient to
       | cables being cut, I'm pretty certain everything would break right
       | now if the Atlantic cables were cut. Does anyone know of an easy
       | way to test this? Would cloudflare or AWS go down for example?
       | What about my local bank?
        
         | rogerrogerr wrote:
         | I know of a way to test it...
         | 
         | But realistically, I would think the US/Americas would be
         | approximately fine. Most, if not practically all, services
         | people on the NA continent use are based in the US from both a
         | corporate and technical perspective. The command+control stuff
         | for distributed systems is probably in the US.
         | 
         | Across the pond(s), yeah, I'd expect more disruption.
        
           | Swizec wrote:
           | When I was in high school, our cable out of the country got
           | cut on the border with Austria. For a few hours we could only
           | access domestic websites, which was a pretty interesting
           | experience.
           | 
           | 20 years later I wonder how many of those are hosted on
           | AWS/GCP/Azure and would break anyway. Probably all but the
           | biggest.
        
             | Mistletoe wrote:
             | An interesting thought experiment is what would happen to
             | each region's internet culture if cut off like this from
             | one another? It would be like a speciation event like when
             | animals get cut off from one another by continental drift
             | etc.
        
           | andy_ppp wrote:
           | I understand the US would be fine! Europe would struggle I
           | think.
        
         | yuliyp wrote:
         | What kind of resiliency are you hoping to achieve? For most
         | routes, there are many dozens of cables starting at many
         | different locations and taking many distinct paths across the
         | ocean. The companies using these cables take great pains to
         | ensure redundancy for critical paths: they'll validate minimum
         | distances between the cables, ensure that they have a variety
         | of landing points, ensure that they have enough spare capacity
         | to handle a certain number of cables all being out for repair
         | simultaneously. Alternatives to cables would be either land-
         | based wireless (radio, point-to-point microwave) or satellite,
         | both of which have much lower throughput capabilities and also
         | are vulnerable to sabotage of transmission/receiver locations.
         | 
         | While the number of cables is not large enough to put it out of
         | the reach of many nations, it's also something that no group
         | with the capability of doing it would really want to do: it's a
         | surefire way to invite retribution from basically the rest of
         | the world, while not really achieving much militarily: armies
         | almost invariably have their own communication systems
         | (satellite, microwave, transoceanic fiber whose location is
         | secret, etc).
        
         | chgs wrote:
         | We do have resiliency - the internet reroutes around these cuts
         | l. Knock out every Atlantic cable and traffic from NY to London
         | would route via LA and singapore.
         | 
         | I see this all the time on traffic from far east to Europe when
         | a Red Sea cable dies, and I've seen it from India to Europe too
         | (and seen traffic rerouted via South Africa and up the west
         | coast a fair bit)
         | 
         | Latency is higher, but on the whole things continue to work.
         | Until there's enough damage - problems tend to be if you cut
         | enough that cables and the routers they are connected to start
         | to bottleneck.
        
         | araes wrote:
         | Sure, which of the 24 Atlantic cables are you going to cut with
         | their 5-15 day repair time estimates? Or maybe the 20+ routing
         | the other way around the Earth. (See map linked above)
        
           | taneliv wrote:
           | Where do you get these repair time estimates? I couldn't find
           | a good source, but for example [1] says that, yes, one to two
           | weeks to repair, but two to three weeks to get the ship from
           | Europe to West Africa.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.channelstv.com/2024/03/16/internet-
           | disruption-su...
        
         | AzzyHN wrote:
         | Hypothetically you could test this by forcing your connections
         | to avoid certain data centers... how you would do this, I'm
         | unsure. It's been a while since I've taken a course on it but I
         | swear CompTIA Network+ covered this
        
       | jdblair wrote:
       | Mother Earth Mother Board, from 1996, is a better article, but
       | behind a paywall. https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/
        
       | bcye wrote:
       | I think this website set a new record: Asking to share data with
       | 1587 "partners"
        
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       (page generated 2024-11-24 23:01 UTC)