[HN Gopher] MaXX Interactive Desktop -- the little brother of th...
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       MaXX Interactive Desktop -- the little brother of the great SGI
       Desktop on IRIX
        
       Author : gjvc
       Score  : 135 points
       Date   : 2024-11-22 23:21 UTC (23 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (docs.maxxinteractive.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (docs.maxxinteractive.com)
        
       | rhabarba wrote:
       | This is actually nice. Desktops were much less annoying back in
       | the day.
        
         | AnimalMuppet wrote:
         | Well, they didn't serve you ads on the start menu...
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | They did (sort of). They were called demos and trials. But
           | there was no DRM. FlexLM was easy to crack. The WWW was
           | largely plaintext.
           | 
           | I sadly fried my Octane 2 at some point (and got my Indy's,
           | DS10L Mac Pro G5 (also RIP and Suns to the garbage waste
           | disposal). The Octane 2 specifically was also using a lot of
           | Watt. But it was fun to play with, and of course it ran IRIX
           | ;)
           | 
           | (I still remember how good the audio card in the Indy was
           | compared to my PC's.)
           | 
           | I noticed other day prices are still high on eBay. Better off
           | buying recent enterprise stuff (mind the Watts though).
           | 
           | One funny thing to note is SGI completely missed out on the
           | AI era and boom.
        
         | taeric wrote:
         | I'm curious how you mean? I'm mainly on PopOs nowadays, and it
         | seems largely fine? What are the main annoyances?
        
           | oguz-ismail wrote:
           | Rounded corners and huge paddings
        
             | taeric wrote:
             | Funny, I'll have to look when back at a computer in a few
             | days. I don't recall the padding being that bad. Granted...
             | I do largely use it as an emacs machine. I'm sure that
             | colors what I notice.
        
             | spookie wrote:
             | This. The very reason I use KDE (I have tried tiling wm's,
             | and they are horrible if I use my drawing tablet, which I
             | use a LOT), then customize it in a way to minimize wasted
             | space (taskbar on the left, take out window borders
             | padding, etc).
             | 
             | Then I go and enable compact look on firefox, take out a
             | bunch of useless icons for things I don't use, and bam my
             | 4K screen is able to accommodate all my work. Even though I
             | do still use 125% DPI scale, not via KDE mind you, because
             | I love eyes.
             | 
             | And even then, it still looks slick and modern. It's crazy
             | how much space we waste with flat design on desktop.
             | Crazyyy.
        
               | DrPhish wrote:
               | Out of curiosity, what was the showstopper on dwm?
        
               | oguz-ismail wrote:
               | > dwm is customized through editing its source code
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | I'll take filled rounded corners over the window border
             | bulge atrocity seen in IRIX.
             | 
             | Also keep in mind IRIX (and most classic desktops) assumed
             | 72 DPI displays rather than 96 DPI displays. That means
             | when you view a screenshot or render them unadjusted they
             | look 75% the size they did back in the day. Still plenty
             | denser in many ways... just not as much as loading it up on
             | a modern "96 DPI is 100%" screen would imply.
        
               | mixmastamyk wrote:
               | I miss real window borders that you could see and drag--
               | what a concept.
        
             | mhd wrote:
             | OpenLook would like to have a word about those corners...
             | 
             | (But yes, in general it's all custom "cards" and list
             | views. HTML didn't allow a good set of GUI widgets, so
             | people adapted, and now the cruel circle has closed with
             | desktop UIs being "informed" by web and mobile views)
        
       | indrora wrote:
       | It's a shame that it's not (visibly) open source. There's so much
       | that could be done at this point. The shambling corpse of SGI is
       | dead enough that anything left of their legal department must be
       | absolutely destroyed.
        
         | hbbio wrote:
         | << All the legacy code is under the SGI Special License
         | Agreement and not available. Binaries are available as FREE-
         | WARE for Linux (intel) platform. However we are in the process
         | of changing the license to BSD 3-Clause, but it is complicated.
         | 
         | All new code under the MaXX Interactive Desktop Project is
         | under a BSD 3-Clause License and is available at
         | https://gitlab.com/maxxdesktop
         | 
         | >>
         | 
         | Read more here:
         | 
         | https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/books/licensing/page/sgi-sp...
        
           | analognoise wrote:
           | Oh cool, I'll come back after it's BSD, this looks neat!
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | The name makes me think of Holomaxx Technologies (styled as
       | holoMaXx technologies), the vanity DBA of one Ilarion Bilynsky,
       | also known as SsZERO. SsZERO was a squirrely guy with an
       | interesting USENET presence in the late nineties. At first he was
       | a bit like the later Imari Stevenson: a spoiled, videogame-
       | obsessed teenager whose confidence far exceeded his competence.
       | He promised the Holomaxx Ultimate Video Game Project or UVGP, a
       | kickass game console that would beat all others and even feature
       | AGI, to everyone on rec.games.programmer and several other
       | newsgroups, and became quite truculent, to the point of rudeness,
       | when actual game devs replied with constructive criticism. He
       | accused them all of "thinking linearly", as opposed to his own
       | "dimensional thinking". This was a TimeCube-like epistemology of
       | Ilarion's creation, under which a circle can be a straight line
       | at the same time, if you rotate it by 90 degrees, given by 90(n)
       | so 90(45) would be a line at a 45-degree angle, that still had
       | the properties of the original circle. It was also critical to
       | how the UVGP worked, as it would possess "dimensional logic" and
       | a "dimensional information crossover" or DFX. If you note that
       | "information" begins with I and not with F, well, you're just not
       | thinking dimensionally my friend.
       | 
       | Needless to say the UVGP never came to fruition, or else it
       | exists in a higher dimension us linear thinkers just can't
       | comprehend. Ilarion would then pivot Holomaxx into a reseller of
       | computer and audiophile parts (thousand-dollar speaker wires and
       | the like), as well as a bespoke web development company (I think
       | they claimed Kazaa as a client). They are most famous, however,
       | for unsuccessfully suing Microsoft and Yahoo! because the spam
       | filters at those two providers filtered out correspondence
       | originating from Holomaxx as spam. The case of _Holomaxx Techs.
       | v. Microsoft_ is cited in case law concerning the reach of the
       | CAN-SPAM Act and Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act,
       | in terms of how much discretion a provider has in filtering
       | communications going over their network that are, in the provider
       | 's determination, harmful.
       | 
       | I don't know where I'm going with this except to say that until I
       | dived in and checked out the authorship, I wondered if Ilarion
       | were involved with this desktop project. It sounds like the sort
       | of thing he might get involved with, especially since SGI was
       | synonymous with "kickass computing power" among gamers in the
       | 90s. Thanks for the trip down 90s USENET memory lane, MaXX
       | Desktop!
        
         | 1oooqooq wrote:
         | These comments are what I pay internet for.
        
       | jasoneckert wrote:
       | This is great. Perhaps it's finally time for me to upgrade from
       | my SGI Fuel to a Linux system running MaXX:
       | https://triosdevelopers.com/~jason.eckert/trios/SGI_Fuel.jpg
        
         | fusivdh wrote:
         | You still use your fuel? Nice.
         | 
         | What upgrades do you have? I only have a 500Mhz cpu, but i have
         | 4 Gb and I put in an ssd. I also put in a modern power supply
         | which makes it a little less loud.
         | 
         | Man that thing is loud
        
           | jasoneckert wrote:
           | In addition to bumping it to 4GB, the only upgrade I did was
           | for the HDD. I'm not sure if mine has a quieter PSU, but it
           | doesn't seem (to me at least) to be louder than any other PC
           | when running.
        
           | classichasclass wrote:
           | 900MHz, 4GB and a DCD V12. Need to fix the PSU, but I love
           | the Big Red look. And hey, it's quieter than a Tezro.
        
             | fusivdh wrote:
             | I forgot I also have a V12, but no DCD. I also have a sound
             | card, but its mot connected (my old PSU gave me problems as
             | it died)
        
         | classichasclass wrote:
         | Or you could just run this on it, which would probably compile
         | just fine on Linux-MIPS: https://github.com/rhaleblian/pirix
        
       | kristopolous wrote:
       | Used to be called 5DWM.
       | 
       | Also CDE is now open source, being actively maintained, and is
       | still the CDE you remember. Even on a vintage hosting platform
       | https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
        
         | Fnoord wrote:
         | Solarized Dark keeps CDE alive for me, sortof.
        
         | IOT_Apprentice wrote:
         | When I worked at HP in the mid 80s I met the guys there that
         | developed the UI design of CDE. Ironically done on Macintosh
         | IIs using Pixelpaint. It was a very nice design.
        
         | chasil wrote:
         | Did they update dtksh with Korn's final ksh93 release?
        
         | ranger_danger wrote:
         | https://github.com/NsCDE/NsCDE
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | The file manager in this looks a lot like my beloved ROX-Filer.
       | Would love to try this if I could install it on FreeBSD. I don't
       | see it in a cursory glance at Ports.
        
         | girvo wrote:
         | FreeBSD support is listed on the site as a goal/feature (I've
         | no idea which one), but I've no idea whether its aspirational
         | or not:
         | 
         | > To run on multiple OS: Linux, FreeBSD and Windows11 WSL2.
         | 
         | The actual installation instructions seem to be for Linux
         | kernels sadly.
         | 
         | https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/books/octane-v22-installati...
        
         | hexagonwin wrote:
         | It is indeed ROX, at least it was in the 2020 release.
         | 
         | Sadly this is closed source and only amd64 Linux binaries are
         | available..
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | How did we have this at one point but now we have gnome and it's
       | single threaded , bad extensions take down the whole session
       | desktop manager?
        
         | 1oooqooq wrote:
         | gnome was hijacked long ago to undermine linux adoption. I will
         | not elaborate any further.
        
       | jazzyjackson wrote:
       | The link to "Installation Guides"
       | https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/books/mid-v211-installation...
       | at the bottom of the page next to the Slack/Facebook/Bluebird
       | icons 404s :(
        
         | girvo wrote:
         | The correct link is
         | https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/books/octane-v22-installati...
         | as far as I can tell
        
       | taeric wrote:
       | I'm curious how projects like this have been impacted by the
       | Wayland work?
        
         | AtlasBarfed wrote:
         | In ten years maybe we'll know.
        
       | somat wrote:
       | While I enjoyed 4dwm when I had a sgi, I am not convinced the
       | desktop environment was that great, it did however have a very
       | nice file manager, which I guess is 90% of a desktop environment,
       | so perhaps it was pretty good after all.
       | 
       | The best sgi ui innovation, which unfortunately I rarely see
       | anywhere else, was the use of drop pockets, these are drag and
       | drop targets, small squares that are uniformly styled to give the
       | user a hint that dropping something here is useful.
       | 
       | I was unable to find a good example with multiple pockets, but
       | for example: when you see that blue square in the file manager,
       | you know you can drop something there and it will try to use it
       | as a path.
       | 
       | https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/books/user-experience-ux/pa...
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _these are drag and drop targets, small squares that are
         | uniformly styled to give the user a hint that dropping
         | something here is useful._
         | 
         | Something similar exists in macOS, but isn't widely used, as
         | far as I can tell.
         | 
         | You can create a script in Automator that does things with an
         | input file, and then save it as a desktop icon that you can
         | drop things onto. I have a few of these for auto-resizing
         | images.
         | 
         | (Bonus: Because it's done in Automator, you can also have the
         | same script appear under Quick Actions when you Option-click
         | the file/s.)
         | 
         | Panic's Transmit allows you to create a desktop icon that sends
         | whatever's dropped on it to a server via FTP, SFTP, S3, Google
         | Drive, or a dozen other methods.
        
         | dmd wrote:
         | Vaguely related, I saw an extremely nice little bit of UI on a
         | MRI machine console the other day. When planning a sequence of
         | scans, you drag them into a listbox. But once that listbox is
         | "full" from top to bottom, it's hard to append to the end
         | (rather than inserting between two existing scans), because you
         | keep having to hit that tiny 1px wide target between the bottom
         | of the box and the last entry.
         | 
         | So someone at Bruker noticed this, and made a drop target UNDER
         | the listbox that's labeled Drop Here to Append. It makes things
         | SO much more pleasant.
         | 
         | Best screenshot I could find online:
         | https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Horea-Christian/publica...
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | Had great scrollbars. When dragged there would be a shadow to
         | show where the bar _was._ So you could go back if needed. Also
         | the first platform I noticed that you could middle click the
         | scrollbar to move directly, or control click the titlebar to
         | lower. Though those conventions may have been from Motif?
         | 
         | It listed wm hot keys on the window menu and had vector icons.
         | Yes, believe it was the best desktop of the era.
         | 
         | Would like to see an improved version of it, not merely a
         | faithful reproduction. I hesitate to say modern because it
         | often means dumbed-down. But made for higher resolution would
         | be great.
        
       | h4ck_th3_pl4n3t wrote:
       | I'm a little confused of what the current state of the project
       | is.
       | 
       | The Photo Gallery [1] features a couple of installations, running
       | on 4k screen hardware and a Xeon X5690 as it seems, but is still
       | based on CentOS from 2004 and running a Linux 4.18 kernel?
       | 
       | Do they have compilation problems or kernel mod problems, or that
       | they need to port their display server and kernel mods to newer
       | APIs in the upstream kernel?
       | 
       | Looking at the roadmap [2] this looks like a major development
       | effort with huge stories along the way. Is there a foundation
       | people can support financially?
       | 
       | [1] https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/books/misc/page/photo-
       | galle...
       | 
       | [2] https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/books/whats-
       | next/page/novem...
        
         | hulitu wrote:
         | > I'm a little confused of what the current state of the
         | project is.
         | 
         | The project seems to be sleeping. The development was veeery
         | slow. It was not open source so, in the end, CDE is the way to
         | go if you need something like this.
        
       | bonaldi wrote:
       | Click "installation guides" > "book not found".
       | 
       | I'm so tired.
        
       | bastloing wrote:
       | CDE killed off openlook, another nice desktop environment mostly
       | on Sun workstations. Lots of time spent on both, with my optical
       | mouse and optical mouse pad.
       | 
       | Looks like there's an open source clone though
       | 
       | https://sourceforge.net/projects/openlook/
        
         | ranger_danger wrote:
         | I think a window manager project without a single screenshot
         | should be illegal
        
           | bastloing wrote:
           | Yeah. I used openlook on a Sun grayscale monitor. Would be
           | interesting to see what it looks like in color.
        
       | gjvc wrote:
       | _too much use of italic / oblique_
        
       | 1oooqooq wrote:
       | Little known fact is that the SGI 5.6+ (certainly 6) settings
       | controls was the first "electron app".
       | 
       | It ran a mozilla process, with CSS1.x to style the controls like
       | Motif. And the Javascript code interacted with the underlying XUL
       | hacks in a manner not much different from WebOS palm used decades
       | later.
        
         | ddingus wrote:
         | Pretty sure that app ended up in IRIX 5.3.
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | EMWM can do that without propietary components.
        
       | ddingus wrote:
       | Man, I sure hope this project can get traction.
       | 
       | The Indigo Magic Desktop coupled with the 4DWM X window manager
       | was among the top computing experiences I've had! At my peak, I
       | was a sysadmin for our setup where I worked and as a reseller,
       | was basically a remote sysadmin for a fair number of other
       | installations.
       | 
       | Used to keep lists of Free Juno numbers while traveling just so I
       | could get online in the days before fairly ubiquitous free or low
       | cost wi-fi. Dial up on those was what? 2.5kbytes per sec, or
       | thereabouts.
       | 
       | Plenty for that kind of support work, but I digress!
       | 
       | I loved it. The red pointer, which I continue to use to this day,
       | crisp interactions, launch/event sounds, drop pads, and too many
       | other niceties to list here, made for great experiences.
       | 
       | And IRIX itself was no joke. The scheduler is amazing! It
       | remained responsive in almost all scenarios.
       | 
       | Once, for a training class, I had updated the software revision.
       | But, on one machine I had left the app open with some action
       | pending.
       | 
       | I saw one student appearing to run the old revision, which I
       | thought impossible because those files were gone! Well, IRIX
       | cached the whole damn thing. gr_osview showed a huge file cache,
       | which I saw evaporate once the app was closed all the way.
       | 
       | Then things were just fine. Excellent!
       | 
       | And the tools. How many machines have you all used with a CD
       | Player that had "Save Track As..." built in as a standard option.
       | 
       | Want to remote display a high end CAD package with 3D rendering
       | and the works? 4DWM with the GLX extensions handled it nicely.
       | 
       | ....
       | 
       | Anyhow, I hope this gets some momentum. I would love to run it
       | and maybe show it off to some younger users in the building what
       | computing was like.
        
         | sillywalk wrote:
         | > How many machines have you all used with a CD Player that had
         | "Save Track As..." built in as a standard option.
         | 
         | The CD Player in BeOS could save all or parts of CD Tracks.
         | Also, BeOS would show CDs as a directory of numbered AIFF or
         | WAV files, I can't remember which. There was also some optional
         | software that wold look up the CD info up with CDDB and would
         | show the track names in the Tracker (the BeOS file manager)
        
       | johnea wrote:
       | This almost seems more like an OS than a desktop. (microservices,
       | messaging)
       | 
       | I guess my opinion is biased given my longterm use of "window
       | managers", specifically fluxbox.
       | 
       | Maybe the features of this are more in line with the development
       | environments provided by gnome of KDDE?
        
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