[HN Gopher] Oxide Cuts Data Center Power Consumption in Half
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Oxide Cuts Data Center Power Consumption in Half
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2024-11-21 18:12 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (oxide.computer)
 (TXT) w3m dump (oxide.computer)
        
       | grecy wrote:
       | I'm amazed Apple don't have a rack mount version of their M
       | series chips yet.
       | 
       | Even for their own internal use in their data centers they'd have
       | to save an absolute boat load on power and cooling given their
       | performance per watt compared to legacy stuff.
        
         | throawayonthe wrote:
         | (some of?) their servers do run apple silicon:
         | https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/
        
         | jauntywundrkind wrote:
         | For who? How would this help their core mission?
         | 
         | Maybe it becomes a big enough profit center to matter. Maybe.
         | At the risk of taking focus away, splitting attention from the
         | mission they're on today: building end user systems.
         | 
         | Maybe they build them for themselves. For what upside? Maybe
         | somewhat better compute efficiency maybe, but I think if you
         | have big workloads the huge massive AMD Turin super-chips are
         | going to be incredibly hard to beat.
         | 
         | It's hard to emphasize just how efficient AMD is, with 192 very
         | high performance cores on a 350-500W chip.
        
           | favorited wrote:
           | > Maybe they build them for themselves. For what upside?
           | 
           | They do build it for themselves. From their security blog:
           | 
           | "The root of trust for Private Cloud Compute is our compute
           | node: custom-built server hardware that brings the power and
           | security of Apple silicon to the data center, with the same
           | hardware security technologies used in iPhone, including the
           | Secure Enclave and Secure Boot. We paired this hardware with
           | a new operating system: a hardened subset of the foundations
           | of iOS and macOS tailored to support Large Language Model
           | (LLM) inference workloads while presenting an extremely
           | narrow attack surface. This allows us to take advantage of
           | iOS security technologies such as Code Signing and
           | sandboxing."
           | 
           | <https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/>
        
         | thatfrenchguy wrote:
         | There is a rack mount version of the Mac Pro you can buy
        
           | bigfatkitten wrote:
           | That's designed for the broadcast market, where they rack
           | mount everything in the studio environment. It's not really a
           | server, it has no out of band management, redundant power
           | etc.
           | 
           | There are third party rack mounts available for the Mac Mini
           | and Mac Studio also.
        
         | rincebrain wrote:
         | I don't think they'd admit much about it even if they had one
         | internally, both because Apple isn't known for their openness
         | about many things, and because they already exited the
         | dedicated server hardware business years ago, so I think
         | they're likely averse to re-entering it without very strong
         | evidence that it would be beneficial for more than a brief
         | period.
         | 
         | In particular, while I'd enjoy such a device, Apple's whole
         | thing is their whole-system integration and charging a premium
         | because of it, and I'm not sure the markets that want to sell
         | people access to Apple CPUs will pay a premium for a 1U over
         | shoving multiple Mac Minis in the same 1U footprint, especially
         | if they've already been doing that for years at this point...
         | 
         | ...I might also speculate that if they did this, they'd have a
         | serious problem, because if they're buying exclusive access to
         | all TSMC's newest fab for extended intervals to meet demand on
         | their existing products, they'd have issues finding sources to
         | meet a potentially substantial demand in people wanting their
         | machines for dense compute. (They could always opt to lag the
         | server platforms behind on a previous fab that's not as
         | competed with, of course, but that feels like self-sabotage if
         | they're already competing with people shoving Mac Minis in a
         | rack, and now the Mac Minis get to be a generation ahead, too?)
        
           | AceJohnny2 wrote:
           | I will add that consumer macOS is a piss-poor server OS.
           | 
           | At one point, for many years, it would just sometimes fail to
           | `exec()` a process. This would manifest as a random failure
           | on our build farm about once/twice a month. (This would
           | manifest as "/bin/sh: fail to exec binary file" because the
           | error type from the kernel would have the libc fall back to
           | trying to run the binary as a script, as normal for a Unix,
           | but it isn't a script)
           | 
           | This is likely stemming from their exiting the server
           | business years ago, and focusing on consumer appeal more than
           | robustness (see various terrible releases, security- and
           | stability-wise).
           | 
           | (I'll grant that macOS has many features that _would_ make it
           | a great server OS, but it 's just not polished enough in that
           | direction)
        
             | AceJohnny2 wrote:
             | > _as normal for a Unix_
             | 
             | veering offtopic, did you know macOS is a certified Unix?
             | 
             | https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3581.htm
             | 
             | As I recall, Apple advertised macOS as a Unix without such
             | certification, got sued, and then scrambled to implement
             | the required features to get certification as a result.
             | Here's the story as told by the lead engineer of the
             | project:
             | 
             | https://www.quora.com/What-goes-into-making-an-OS-to-be-
             | Unix...
        
               | autoexecbat wrote:
               | and Windows used to be certified for posix, but none of
               | that matters theses days if it's not bug-compatible with
               | Linux
        
               | jorams wrote:
               | This comes up rather often, and on the last significant
               | post about it I saw on HN someone pointed out that the
               | certification is kind of meaningless[1]. macOS poll(2) is
               | not Unix-compliant, hasn't been since forever, yet every
               | new version of macOS gets certified regardless.
               | 
               | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41823078
        
             | rincebrain wrote:
             | Did that ever get fixed? That...seems like a pretty
             | critical problem.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | Oxide is not touching DLC systems in their post even with a
         | 100ft barge pole.
         | 
         | Lenovo's DLC systems use 45 degrees C water to directly cool
         | the power supplies and the servers themselves (water goes
         | through them) for > 97% heat transfer to water. In cooler
         | climates, you can just pump this to your drycoolers, and in
         | winter you can freecool them with just air convection.
         | 
         | Yes, the TDP doesn't go down, but cooling costs and efficiency
         | shots up considerably, reducing POE to 1.03 levels. You can put
         | tremendous amount of compute or GPU power in one rack, and cool
         | them efficiently.
         | 
         | Every chassis handles its own power, but IIRC, all the chassis
         | electricity is DC. and the PSUs are extremely efficient.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | Companies buying massive cloud scale server hardware want to be
         | able to choose from a dozen different Taiwanese motherboard
         | manufacturers. Apple _is in no way_ motivated to release or
         | sell the M3 /M4 CPUs as a product that major east asia
         | motherboard manufacturers can design their own platform for.
         | Apple is highly invested in tightly integrated ecosystems where
         | everything is soldered down together in one package as a
         | consumer product (take a look at a macbook air or pro
         | motherboard for instance).
        
       | PreInternet01 wrote:
       | "If only they used DC from the wall socket, all those H100s would
       | be green" is, not, I think, the hill you want to die on.
       | 
       | But, yeah, my three 18MW/y racks agree that more power efficiency
       | would be nice, it's just that Rewrite It In (Safe) Rust is
       | unlikely to help with that...
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > it's just that Rewrite It In (Safe) Rust is unlikely to help
         | with that...
         | 
         | I didn't see any mention of Rust in the article?
        
           | PreInternet01 wrote:
           | It's pretty much the _raison d 'etre_ of Oxide. But carry
           | on...
        
             | sophacles wrote:
             | That's an interesting take. What's your reasoning? Whats
             | your evidence?
        
             | bigfatkitten wrote:
             | They wrote their own BMC and various other bits and pieces
             | in Rust. That's an extremely tiny part of the whole
             | picture.
        
             | transpute wrote:
             | OSS Rust in Rack trenchcoat.
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | What I don't get is why tie to such an ancient platform. AMD
       | Milan is my home lab. The new 9004 Epycs are so much better on
       | power efficiency. I'm sure they've done their market research and
       | the gains must be so significant. We used to have a few petabytes
       | and tens of thousands of cores almost ten years ago and it's
       | crazy how much higher data and compute density you can get with
       | modern 30 TiB disks and Epyc 9654s. 100 such nodes and you have
       | 10k cores and really fast data. I can't see myself running a
       | 7003-series datacenter anymore unless the Oxide gains are that
       | big.
        
         | farawayea wrote:
         | They've built this a while ago. A hardware refresh takes time.
         | The good news is that they may be able to upgrade the existing
         | equipment with newer sleds.
        
           | jclulow wrote:
           | Yes we're definitely building the next generation of
           | equipment to fit into the existing racks!
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | They do have a good point here. If you do the total power budget
       | on a typical 1U (discrete chassis, not blade) server which is
       | packed full of a wall of 40mm fans pushing air, the highest speed
       | screaming 40mm 12VDC fans can be 20W electrical load _each_. It
       | 's easy to "spend" at least 120W at maximum heat from the CPUs,
       | in a dual socket system, just on the fans to pull air from the
       | front/cold side of the server through to the rear heat exhaust.
       | 
       | Just going up to 60mm or 80mm standard size DC fans can be a huge
       | efficiency increase in watt-hours spent per cubic meters of air
       | moved per hour.
       | 
       | I am extremely skeptical of the "12x" but using larger fans _is_
       | more efficient.
       | 
       | from the URL linked:
       | 
       | > Bigger fans = bigger efficiency gains Oxide server sleds are
       | designed to a custom form factor to accommodate larger fans than
       | legacy servers typically use. These fans can move more air more
       | efficiently, cooling the systems using 12x less energy than
       | legacy servers, which each contain as many as 7 fans, which must
       | work much harder to move air over system components.
        
         | eaasen wrote:
         | FWIW, we had to have the idle speed of our fans lowered because
         | the usual idle of around 5k RPM was WAY too much cooling. We
         | generally run our fans at around 2.5kRPM (barely above idle).
         | This is due to not only the larger fans, but also the fact that
         | we optimized and prioritized as little restriction on airflow
         | as possible. If you've taken apart a current gen 1U/2U server
         | and then compare that to how little our airflow is restricted
         | and how little our fans have to work, the 12X reduction becomes
         | a bit clearer.
        
       | unsnap_biceps wrote:
       | > When we started Oxide, the DC bus bar stood as one of the most
       | glaring differences between the rack-scale machines at the
       | hyperscalers and the rack-and-stack servers that the rest of the
       | market was stuck with. That a relatively simple piece of copper
       | was unavailable to commercial buyers
       | 
       | It seems that 0xide was founded in 2019 and Open Compute Project
       | had been specifying dc bus bars for 6 years at that point. People
       | could purchase racks if they wanted, but it seems like, by large,
       | people didn't care enough to go whole hog in on it.
       | 
       | Wonder if the economics have changed or if it's still just neat
       | but won't move the needle.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | Things like -48VDC bus bars in the 'telco' world significantly
         | predate the OCP, all the way back to like 1952 in the Bell
         | system.
         | 
         | In general, the telco world concept hasn't changed much. You
         | have AC grid power coming from your local utility into some BIG
         | ASS RECTIFIERS which create -48VDC (and are responsible for
         | charging your BIG ASS BATTERY BANK to float voltage), then
         | various DC fuses/breakers going to distribution of -48VDC bus
         | bars powering the equipment in a CO.
         | 
         | Re: Open Compute, the general concept of what they did was go
         | to a bunch of 1U/2U server power supply manufacturers and get
         | them to make a series of 48VDC-to-12VDC power supplies (which
         | can be 92%+ efficient), and cut out the need for legacy 5VDC
         | feed from power supply into ATX-derived-design x86-64
         | motherboards.
        
         | zamalek wrote:
         | It's normally incredibly difficult for employees to disrupt at
         | massive companies that would be the type which runs a data
         | center. Disruption usually enters the corp in a sales deck,
         | much like the one Oxide would have.
         | 
         | It's stupid, but that's why we all have jobs.
        
           | hnthrowaway0328 wrote:
           | I think engineers should be more forceful to lead their own
           | visions instead being led by accountants and lawyers.
           | 
           | After engineers have the power of implementation and de-
           | implementstion. They need to step into dirty politics and
           | bend other people's views.
           | 
           | It's either theirs or ours. Win-win is a fallacy.
        
             | philipov wrote:
             | Let me know how that works out for you!
        
             | andrewjf wrote:
             | Being able to navigate this is what differentiates a very
             | senior IC (principal, distinguished, etc) and random
             | employees.
        
         | bigfatkitten wrote:
         | OCP hardware is only really accessible to hyperscalers. You
         | can't go out and just buy a rack or two, the Taiwanese OEMs
         | don't do direct deals that small. Even if they did, no
         | integration is done for you. You would have to integrate the
         | compute hardware from one company, the network fabric from
         | another company, and then the OS and everything else from yet
         | another. That's a lot of risk, a lot of engineering resources,
         | a lot of procurement overhead, and a lot of different vendors
         | pointing fingers at each other when something doesn't work.
         | 
         | If you're Amazon or Google, you can do this stuff yourself. If
         | you're a normal company, you probably won't have the inhouse
         | expertise.
         | 
         | On the other hand, Oxide sells a turnkey IaaS platform that you
         | can just roll off the pallet, plug in and start using
         | immediately. You only need to pay one company, and you have one
         | company to yell at if something goes wrong.
         | 
         | You can buy a rack of 1-2U machines from Dell, HPE or Cisco
         | with VMware or some other HCI platform, but you don't get that
         | power efficiency or the really nice control plane Oxide have on
         | their platform.
        
         | indrora wrote:
         | You simply can't buy OCP hardware is part of the issue, not new
         | anyway. What you're going to find is "OCP Inspired" hardware
         | that has some overlap with the full OCP specification but is
         | almost always meant to run on 240VAC on 19in racks because
         | nobody wants to invest the money in something that can't be
         | bought from CDW.
        
         | TZubiri wrote:
         | One is the specs and the other is an actual implementation,
         | what am I missing?
        
       | shivak wrote:
       | > > The power shelf distributes DC power up and down the rack via
       | a bus bar. This eliminates the 70 total AC power supplies found
       | in an equivalent legacy server rack within 32 servers, two top-
       | of-rack switches, and one out-of-band switch, each with two AC
       | power supplies
       | 
       | This creates a single point of failure, trading robustness for
       | efficiency. There's nothing wrong with that, but software/ops
       | might have to accommodate by making the opposite tradeoff. In
       | general, the cost savings advertised by cloud infrastructure
       | should be more holistic.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | The whole thing with eliminating 70 discrete 1U server size AC-
         | to-DC power supplies is nothing new. It's the same general
         | concept as the power distribution unit in the center of an open
         | compute platform rack design from 10+ years ago.
         | 
         | Everyone who's doing serious datacenter stuff at scale knows
         | that one of the absolute least efficient, labor intensive and
         | cabling intensive/annoying ways of powering stuff is to have
         | something like a 42U cabinet with 36 servers in it, each of
         | them with dual power supplies, with power leads going to a pair
         | of 208V 30A vertical PDUs in the rear of the cabinet. It gets
         | ugly fast in terms of efficiency.
         | 
         | The single point of failure isn't really a problem as long as
         | the software is architected to be tolerant of the disappearance
         | of an entire node (mapping to a single motherboard that is a
         | single or dual cpu socket config with a ton of DDR4 on it).
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | That's one reason why 2U4N systems are kinda popular. 1/4 the
           | cabling in legacy infrastructure.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | PDUs are also very failure-prone and not worth the trouble.
        
         | dralley wrote:
         | >This creates a single point of failure, trading robustness for
         | efficiency. There's nothing wrong with that, but software/ops
         | might have to accommodate by making the opposite tradeoff.
         | 
         | I'll happily take a single high qualify power supply (which may
         | have internal redundancy FWIW) over 70 much more cheaply made
         | power supplies that stress other parts of my datacenter via
         | sheer inefficiency, and also costs more in aggregate. Nobody
         | drives down the highway with 10 spare tires for their SUV.
        
           | hn-throw wrote:
           | Let's say your high quality supply's yearly failure rate is
           | 100 times less than the cheap ones
           | 
           | The probability of at least a single failure is 1-(1-r)^70.
           | 
           | This is quite high even w/out considering the higher quality
           | of the one supply.
           | 
           | The probability of all 70 going down is
           | 
           | r^70 which is absurdly low.
           | 
           | Let's say r = 0.05 or one failed supply every 20 in a year.
           | 
           | 1-(1-r)^70 = 97% r^70 < 1E-91
           | 
           | The high quality supply has r = 0.0005, in between no failure
           | and all failing. If you code can handle node failure, very
           | many, cheaper supplies appears to be more robust.
           | 
           | (Assuming uncorrelated events. YMMV)
        
             | carlhjerpe wrote:
             | Yeah but the failure rate of an analog piece of copper is
             | pretty low, it'll keep being copper unless you do stupid
             | things. You'll have multiple power supplies provide power
             | on the same piece of copper
        
               | hn-throw wrote:
               | TL/DR, isnt there a single, shared, DC supply that
               | supplies said piece of copper? Presumably connected to
               | mains?
               | 
               | Or are the running on SOFCs?
        
           | fracus wrote:
           | No one drives down the highway with one tire either.
        
             | AcerbicZero wrote:
             | Careful, unicyclists are an unforgiving bunch.
        
           | shivak wrote:
           | A DC busbar can propagate a short circuit across the rack,
           | and DC circuit protection is harder than AC. So of course
           | each server now needs its own current limiter, or a cheap
           | fuse.
           | 
           | But I'm not debating the merits of this engineering tradeoff
           | - which seems fine, and pretty widely adopted - just its
           | advertisement. The healthcare industry understands the
           | importance of assessing clinical endpoints (like mortality)
           | rather than surrogate measures (like lab results). Whenever
           | we replace "legacy" with "cloud", it'd be nice to estimate
           | the change in TCO.
        
         | jsolson wrote:
         | The bus bar itself is an SPoF, but it's also just dumb copper.
         | That doesn't mean that nothing can go wrong, but it's pretty
         | far into the tail of the failure distribution.
         | 
         | The power shelf that keeps the busbar fed will have multiple
         | rectifiers, often with at least N+1 redundancy so that you can
         | have a rectifier fail and swap it without the rack itself
         | failing. Similar things apply to the battery shelves.
        
           | immibis wrote:
           | It's also plausible to have multiple power supplies feeding
           | the same bus bar in parallel (if they're designed to support
           | this) e.g. one at each end of a row.
        
             | eaasen wrote:
             | This is how our rack works (Oxide employee). In each power
             | shelf, there are 6 power supplies and only 5 need to be
             | functional to run at full load. If you want even more
             | redundancy, you can use both power shelves with independent
             | power feeds to each so even if you lose a feed, the rack
             | still has 5+1 redundant power supplies.
        
         | sidewndr46 wrote:
         | This isn't even remotely close. Unless all 32 servers have
         | redundant AC power feeds present, you've traded one single
         | point of failure for another single point of failure.
         | 
         | In the event that all 32 servers had redundant AC power feeds,
         | you could just install a pair of redundant DC power feeds.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >Unless all 32 servers have redundant AC power feeds present,
           | you've traded one single point of failure for another single
           | point of failure.
           | 
           | Is this not standard? I vaguely remember that rack severs
           | typically have two PSUs for this reason.
        
             | glitchcrab wrote:
             | It's highly dependent on the individual server model and
             | quite often how you spec it too. Most 1U Dell machines I
             | worked with in the past only had a single slot for a PSU,
             | whereas the beefier 2U (and above) machines generally came
             | with 2 PSUs.
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | But 2 PSUs plugged into the same AC supply still have a
               | single point of failure.
        
             | sidewndr46 wrote:
             | you could have 15 PSUs in a server. It doesn't mean they
             | have redundant power feeds
        
             | jeffbee wrote:
             | Rack servers have two PSUs because enterprise buyers are
             | gullible and will buy anything. Generally what happens in
             | case of a single PSU failure is the other PSU also fails or
             | it asserts PROCHOT which means instead of a clean hard down
             | server you have a slow server derping along at 400MHz which
             | is worse in every possible way.
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | > This creates a single point of failure,
         | 
         | Who told you there is only one PSU in the power shelf?
        
         | sunshowers wrote:
         | Look very carefully at the picture of the rack at
         | https://oxide.computer/ :) there are two power shelves in the
         | middle, not one.
         | 
         | We're absolutely aware of the tradeoffs here and have made
         | quite considered decisions!
        
       | zcw100 wrote:
       | I believe the telco's did dc power for years so I don't think
       | this anything new. Any old hands out there want to school us on
       | how it was done in the old days?
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | big ass rectifiers
         | 
         | big ass solid copper busbars
         | 
         | huge gauge copper cables going around a central office (google
         | "telcoflex IV")
         | 
         | big DC breaker/fuse panels
         | 
         | specialized dc fuse panels for power distribution at the top of
         | racks, using little tiny fuses
         | 
         | 100% overhead steel ladder rack type cable trays, since your
         | typical telco CO was never a raised floor type environment
         | (UNLIKE legacy 1960s/1970s mainframe computer rooms), so all
         | the power was kept accessible by a team of people working on
         | stepladders.
         | 
         | The same general thing continues today in serious telco/ISP
         | operations, with tech features to bring it into the modern era.
         | The rectifiers are modular now, and there's also rectiverters.
         | Monitoring is much better. People are moving rapidly away from
         | wet cell 2V lead acid battery banks and AGM sealed lead acid
         | stuff to LiFePo4 battery systems.
         | 
         | DC fuse panels can come with network-based monitoring, ability
         | to turn on/off devices remotely.
         | 
         | equipment is a whole lot less power hungry now, a telco CO that
         | has decommed a 5ESS will find itself with a ton of empty
         | thermal and power budget.
         | 
         | when I say serious telco stuff is a lot less power hungry, it's
         | by huge margins. randomly chosen example of radio transport
         | equipment. For instance back in the day a powerful, very
         | expensive point to point microwave radio system might be a full
         | 42U rack, 800W in load, with waveguide going out to antennas on
         | a roof. It would carry one, two or three DS3 equivalent of
         | capacity (45 Mbps each).
         | 
         | now, that same telco might have a radio on its CO roof in the
         | same microwave bands that is 1.3 Gbps FDD capacity, pure
         | ethernet with a SFP+ fiber interface built into it, and the
         | whole radio is a 40W electrical load. The radio is mounted
         | directly on the antenna with some UV/IR resistant weatherproof
         | 16 gauge DC power cable running down into the CO and plugged
         | into a fuse panel.
        
         | iamthepieman wrote:
         | Every old telco technician had a story about dropping a wrench
         | on a busbar or other bare piece of high powered transmission
         | equipment and having to shut that center down, get out the
         | heavy equipment, and cut it off because the wrench had been
         | welded to the bus bars.
        
           | jclulow wrote:
           | Note that the rack doesn't accept DC input, like lots of
           | (e.g., NEBS certified) telco equipment. There's a bus bar,
           | but it's enclosed within the rack itself. The rack takes
           | single- or three-phase AC inputs to power the rectifiers,
           | which are then attached to the internal bus bar.
        
       | farawayea wrote:
       | Their tech may be more than adequate today. Bigger businesses may
       | not buy from a small startup company. They expect a lot more.
       | Illumos is a less popular OS. It wouldn't be the first choice for
       | the OS I'd rely on. Who writes the security mitigations for
       | speculative execution bugs? Who patches CVEs in the shipped
       | software which doesn't use Rust?
        
         | AlotOfReading wrote:
         | The answer to "who does X" is Oxide. That's the point. You're
         | not going to Dell who's integrating multiple vendors in the
         | same box in a way that "should" work. You're getting a rack
         | where everything is designed to work together from top to
         | bottom.
         | 
         | The goal is that you can email Oxide and they'll be able fix it
         | regardless of where it is in the stack, even down to the
         | processor ROM.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | This. If you want on prem cloud infra without having to roll
           | it yourself, Oxide is the solution.
           | 
           | (no affiliation, just a fan)
        
             | carlhjerpe wrote:
             | If you want on prem infra in exactly the shape and form
             | Oxide delivers*
             | 
             | I've read and understood from Joyent and SmartOS that they
             | believe fault tolerant block devices / filesystems is the
             | wrong abstraction, your software should handle losing
             | storage.
        
               | eaasen wrote:
               | We do not put the onus on customers to tolerate data
               | loss. Our storage is redundant and spread through the
               | rack so that if you lose drives or even an entire
               | computer, your data is still safe.
               | https://oxide.computer/product/storage
        
         | packetlost wrote:
         | Illumos is the OS for the hypervisor and core services, they
         | don't expect their customers to run their code directly on that
         | OS, but inside VMs.
        
         | sunshowers wrote:
         | The illumos bare-metal OS is not directly visible to customers.
        
         | throw0101d wrote:
         | > _Bigger businesses may not buy from a small startup company._
         | 
         | What would you classify Shopify as?
         | 
         | > _One existing Oxide user is e-commerce giant Shopify, which
         | indicates the growth potential for the systems available._
         | 
         | * https://blocksandfiles.com/2024/07/04/oxide-ships-first-
         | clou...
         | 
         | Their CEO has tweeted about it:
         | 
         | * https://twitter.com/tobi/status/1793798092212367669
         | 
         | > _Who writes the security mitigations for speculative
         | execution bugs? Who patches CVEs in the shipped software which
         | doesn 't use Rust?_
         | 
         | Oxide.
         | 
         | This is all a pre-canned solution: just use the API like you
         | would an off-prem cloud. Do you worry about AWS patching stuff?
         | And how many people purchasing 'traditional' servers from
         | Dell/HPe/Lenovo worry about patching links like the LOM?
         | 
         | Further, all of Oxide's stuff is on Github, so you're in better
         | shape for old stuff, whereas if the traditional server vendors
         | EO(S)L something firmware-wise you have no recourse.
        
         | mycoliza wrote:
         | We write the security mitigations. We patch the CVEs. Oxide
         | employs many, perhaps most, of the currently active illumos
         | maintainers --- although I don't work on the illumos kernel
         | personally, I talk to those folks every day.
         | 
         | A big part of what we're offering our customers is the promise
         | that there's one vendor who's responsible for everything in the
         | rack. We _want_ to be the responsible party for all the
         | software we ship, whether it 's firmware, the host operating
         | system, the hypervisor, and everything else. Arguably, the
         | promise that there's one vendor you can yell at for everything
         | is a more important differentiator for us than any particular
         | technical aspect of our hardware or software.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | > How can organizations reduce power consumption and
       | corresponding carbon emissions?
       | 
       | Stop running so much useless stuff.
       | 
       | Also maybe ARM over x86_64 and similar power-efficiency-oriented
       | hardware.
       | 
       | Rack-level system design, or at least power & cooling design, is
       | certainly also a reasonable thing to do. But standardization is
       | probably important here, rather than some bespoke solution which
       | only one provider/supplier offers.
       | 
       | > How can organizations keep pace with AI innovation as existing
       | data centers run out of available power?
       | 
       | Waste less energy on LLM chatbots?
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Current ARM servers actually generally offer "on par" (varies
         | by workload) perf/Watt for generally worse absolute performance
         | (varies by workload) i.e. require more other overhead to
         | achieve the same total perf despite "on par" perf/Watt.
         | 
         | Need either Apple to get into the general market server
         | business or someone to start designing CPUs as well as Apple
         | (based on the comparison between different ARM cores I'm not
         | sure it really matters if they do so using a specific
         | architecture or not).
        
       | ZeroCool2u wrote:
       | If any Oxide staff are here, I'm just curious, is BlueSky a
       | customer? Seems like it would fit well with their on-prem setup.
        
         | danpalmer wrote:
         | Not Oxide or Bluesky, but firstly I'd suggest that asking the
         | company about their customers is unlikely to get a response,
         | most companies don't disclose their customers. Secondly,
         | Bluesky have been growing quickly, I can only assume their
         | hardware is too, and that means long lead time products like an
         | Oxide rack aren't going to work, especially when you can have
         | an off the shelf machine from Dell delivered in a few days.
        
           | ramon156 wrote:
           | > most companies dont disclose their customers
           | 
           | In my head I'm imagining an average landing page. They slap
           | their customers on there like stickers. I doubt bluesky would
           | stay secretive about using oxide if they did
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | events.bsky appears to be hosted on OVH. Single-product SAAS
         | companies less than a few years old are unlikely to be a major
         | customer cohort for Oxide.
        
         | mkeeter wrote:
         | Nope, but many of us (Oxide staff) are big fans of what Bluesky
         | is doing!
         | 
         | One of the Bluesky team members posted about their requirements
         | earlier this month, and why Oxide isn't a great fit for them at
         | the moment:
         | 
         | https://bsky.app/profile/jaz.bsky.social/post/3laha2upw3k2z
        
       | throw0101d wrote:
       | See perhaps "Oxide Cloud Computer Tour - Rear":
       | 
       | * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJmw9OICH-4
        
       | kev009 wrote:
       | Where is the GPU?
        
         | kev507 wrote:
         | maybe the real GPU was the friends we made along the way
        
       | arpinum wrote:
       | How long before a VPS pops up running Oxide racks? Or, why
       | wouldn't a VPS build on top of Oxide if they offer better
       | efficiency and server management?
        
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