[HN Gopher] The rectangular cows of Art UK (2018)
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       The rectangular cows of Art UK (2018)
        
       Author : onychomys
       Score  : 134 points
       Date   : 2024-11-21 13:12 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (artuk.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (artuk.org)
        
       | shaftoe444 wrote:
       | Top kine.
        
       | actionfromafar wrote:
       | Also rectangular pigs.
        
         | InDubioProRubio wrote:
         | Reference? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSD6WhIAF8Y
        
         | gilleain wrote:
         | Brother, may I have some oats!
         | 
         | edit : Ah, in fact that painting is in the article at the very
         | end : "A Pair of Pigs Image credit: Compton Verney"
        
           | Aardwolf wrote:
           | While I don't know what these oats are a reference to, I
           | can't help but think of the absolute classic Fresh Oats from
           | this LGR video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSxaUHT3yoI
           | 
           | From back when LGR was still reviewing silly games and
           | edutainment games
        
             | gilleain wrote:
             | It's from https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/brother-may-i-
             | have-some-oats (I only learned of the meme recently, not
             | from the original)
        
         | Oarch wrote:
         | Outrageous lack of rectangular chickens.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | TLDR:
       | 
       | > The answer, as best I can find it, seems to be related to the
       | points about status.
       | 
       | > The second is the overly bulgy bit in front of their front
       | legs, the brisket. And, also according to my research, when
       | cattle are judged for competitions or prizes, the brisket is
       | taken into consideration.
        
       | dTal wrote:
       | As with a magic trick, the delight resides more in the mystery
       | than the solution, and this article spends its time
       | appropriately. Were the answer given too quickly - were the
       | reader not given the opportunity to marinate for a time in the
       | oddness of the phenomenon, while being drip-fed increasingly
       | outlandish examples - the impact of the reveal at the end would
       | be lost. The punchline is the recontextualization of what we
       | think of as "art" as functional objects, and it is only through
       | being invited to ponder for ourselves for a time that we are
       | prevented from pretending that we understood this all along.
        
       | jdietrich wrote:
       | The shape of the cows is exaggerated, but not by much - many
       | breeds of cow are just incredibly rectangular in profile.
       | 
       | https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5475e650e4b0df...
        
         | onychomys wrote:
         | Honestly, I knew I had to submit it when I got to the sheep.
         | The cows aren't far off, but that sheep!
        
           | jihadjihad wrote:
           | Haha yeah that sheep is pretty wack.
        
             | Cumpiler69 wrote:
             | Brits had Minecraft sheep before Minecraft
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Those beluga whale pigs I've seen somewhere before and they
           | haunt my dreams.
        
         | Mistletoe wrote:
         | And the beef cattle industry ideal shape has evolved over time
         | as well. In the past that rectangle with short stubby legs was
         | what they wanted.
         | 
         | https://onpasture.com/2016/07/04/from-big-to-small-to-big-to...
         | 
         | All 3 parts of this are fascinating.
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | Now in certain regions cattle are bred for being hardy and
           | general overall health in extreme climates, quantity of beef
           | production vs resources that are put into a herd
           | financially... Such as:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughtmaster
           | 
           | There is also the aptly named SQUARE MEATER which maintains
           | the rectangular cow aesthetic
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Meater
        
           | shermantanktop wrote:
           | "Ideal" is a nice word for arbitrary fashion, literally a
           | herd mentality.
           | 
           | This mirrors what happens with muscle cars, women's handbags,
           | JavaScript frameworks, and so many other things. The purpose
           | remains ostensibly functional but the real driver is peer
           | group status, to the point that function is totally
           | compromised but the peer group loves it.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | Isn't any philosophy about cows a herd mentality?
        
             | gilleain wrote:
             | So an arbitrary ideal, then? As in, not conforming to 'the'
             | ideal in the sense of some platonic, eternal idea of a cow,
             | but some ideal in the mind of farmers of what they would
             | prefer cows to be.
        
         | masto wrote:
         | The first thing I did was take 5 seconds for an image search to
         | confirm that the cows in the paintings look like.. actual cows.
         | Then I read the article, and remain perplexed about art and
         | those who write about art.
        
           | the__alchemist wrote:
           | I had the same reaction; this was a glaring omission; photos
           | of cows should have been at the top of the article as a
           | reference. The article's main (but unstated) point isn't
           | _cows in these paintings are rectangular_ , but _cows in
           | these paintings are unrealistic in the same way_. To prove
           | this point, he used many of these paintings, but no pictures
           | of actual cows, which would have proven his or her point.
           | 
           | Doing the work myself, as you have, I find that many cows
           | _are_ rectangular. The author is unequipped to dispel me of
           | this notion, if it 's incorrect, but could have easily if he
           | had addressed it preemptively by clearly stating his actual
           | thesis. (Unrealism, not rectangleness). (And if he is
           | correct)
        
             | DiscourseFan wrote:
             | You've missed the point. It's not that cows are
             | unrealistically sqaure, it is that its strange how many
             | paintings of rectangular cows there are, and the author
             | guesses its because _they're all displaying the profile_.
             | Why is this perspective so dominant in the 19th century,
             | and what does it mean for the formal considerations of the
             | artwork? These are the questions that are important, not
             | whether or not cows are _actually_ sqaure.
        
               | the__alchemist wrote:
               | I concur that what you describe is a central theme. I
               | also think that a lack of addressing the question (with
               | pictures or words) of realism leaves it open for readers
               | to take away themes other than the one you highlight.
        
               | DiscourseFan wrote:
               | There is no "realism," photography is its own form of
               | art. What's remarkable is how common this perspective is
               | even today, such that it has been produced as "realistic"
               | for you and how you see the world.
        
               | gilleain wrote:
               | I agree, however there is something to be said for the
               | distance between the subject and the representation. If
               | the 'underlying cow' is already somewhat square, then the
               | representation in painting or photo is going to be close
               | to that nebulous reality.
               | 
               | While it might be possible to take a photo of a cow that
               | turns out looking spherical (due to the lighting or
               | angle), it is surely going to be harder?
        
               | DiscourseFan wrote:
               | I guess there's the platonist/pythagorean angle that
               | circle, sqaure, and triangle are fundemental forms of
               | seeing and artworks can only approximate them. But even
               | then that is only for the forms of our perception and is
               | _not_ fundemental to the thing in itself, which has
               | neither a name nor a definite shape, but is also in some
               | sense shaped by forces of perception (in a material
               | sense). But then I would argue that technology itself
               | opens up not only new ways of seeing but also new formal
               | possibilities and claiming that there is something
               | fundemental to the forms of seeing to form _in general_
               | limits those possibilities.
        
           | fracus wrote:
           | I spent my time trying to figure out what artuk was.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | I should note that this image of a rectangular cow is hosted on
         | _SQUARE_ space.
        
         | isoprophlex wrote:
         | Gorgeous brisket!
        
         | torlok wrote:
         | One of the first things you learn about farming cows is that
         | meat cows are rectangular, and dairy cows are triangular.
         | 
         | Some of the paintings are quite exaggerated though, probably
         | for the purpose of bragging rights by the patron.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | Particularly in the haunches.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorthorn
         | 
         | One of the cows pictured.
        
       | Nursie wrote:
       | I haven't yet read the whole article, but I immediately find it
       | fascinating - I grew up in the UK and these images are familiar,
       | they were in country pubs and occasionally people's houses.
       | 
       | It never occurred to me to ask why!
       | 
       | I guess I assumed the images were old, and someone wanted to show
       | off that they had a particularly spectacular cow. And the author
       | is right, so many of them are side on and rectangular.
       | 
       | I wonder how many other things in the world that I've ignored as
       | basically wallpaper actually have a backstory...
        
       | TheJoeMan wrote:
       | Recurring xmas gift for my mother for decades:
       | https://www.calendars.com/shop/cows-cows-cows-2025-wall-cale...
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | Something to recite while giving it
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_(poem)
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | Well, I suppose rectangular cows would make the math even
       | simpler, as you wouldn't have to use polar coordinates or have p
       | as a factor in your calculations.
        
       | plank wrote:
       | Only explanation: No physicists were involved in painting these
       | cows. (Everybody knows that physicists only know spherical cows)
       | Kind regards, Roel (yes, physicist by origin)
        
         | zehaeva wrote:
         | I came here to make this same joke good sir! You beat me to it!
        
         | hehehheh wrote:
         | Can you make a square cow from a spherical cow using only
         | compass and straight edge?
        
         | UniverseHacker wrote:
         | Physicists switch between square, spherical, and cylindrical
         | cows depending on the coordinate system they are working in.
         | However they would be squares with a unitless volume and length
         | of 1. There is no need for rectangular cows, because you can
         | just redefine the basis vectors to make it square.
        
       | kjhughes wrote:
       | American art by the late 20th century depicted cows more
       | realistically: https://shorturl.at/aqvDa
        
       | webwielder2 wrote:
       | People think that art from the past must have all been done by
       | masters, but just as with any pursuit at any time, most
       | practitioners are mediocre to bad.
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | I love the weird stuff HN throws up.
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | At least these artists had actually seen a cow. There are some
       | hilarious medieval artworks of lions where the artist had clearly
       | never seen a lion. https://www.sadanduseless.com/medieval-lion-
       | art/
        
         | defanor wrote:
         | Sounds like a fun fact, but were those drawn by people who can
         | draw cows and humans, and aim to draw realistically? Middle
         | Ages were quite a dip in art generally, AFAICT, with humans
         | often not looking realistic, either.
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | I guess it possible that these were just terrible artists,
           | But it seems more likely that they just didn't know what a
           | lion actually looked like. Afterall, if you were an English
           | medieval monk, how likely were you to see an actual lion?
           | They were no photos to go off.
           | 
           | Check out this Cambodian lion:
           | https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/a-guardian-lion-281362
           | The craftsmanship is quite impressive. But it doesn't look
           | anything much like a lion IMHO.
        
             | defanor wrote:
             | I guess that Cambodian lion is rather like the Chinese
             | lions, which "are intended to reflect the emotion of the
             | animal as opposed to the reality of the lion" [1], falling
             | into the bucket with intentionally unrealistic (non-
             | lifelike) art.
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_guardian_lions#Ap
             | peara...
        
             | gilleain wrote:
             | There were a few English artists who might have had the
             | opportunity of knowing what they looked like, given there
             | were lions at the Tower of London:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_London
             | 
             | "Records of 1210-1212 show payments to lion keepers" -
             | although who was allowed to visit the lions is a different
             | question ...
        
         | throwup238 wrote:
         | Someone made a timeline of European drawings of elephants after
         | they disappeared from Europe:
         | https://www.uliwestphal.de/elephas-anthropogenus/index.html
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | That's amazing. Thanks.
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | Not quite on point: the reason there are so many pictures of cows
       | is not 'ubiquity'. There are many phone boxes in Britain, not so
       | many paintings of them.
       | 
       | The question is really, why are cows so relevant to paint? The
       | answer is, the people who could afford to pay a painter were
       | wealthy landowners, and their pride and joy was often purebred
       | cattle. Each picture is some valuable animal, an advertisement if
       | you will.
        
       | DonHopkins wrote:
       | I'm taking a short break from grinding Factorio: Space Age, to
       | mention that the timeless cult classic masterpiece Wagnerian
       | Blade Runner of cargo hauling space operas "Space Truckers"
       | (1996, Dennis Hopper), featured prescient square pigs, which
       | packed tightly and efficiently into space trucks.
       | 
       | Space Truckers - Title Scene (Square Pigs):
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJtHMe3MltU
       | 
       | "Square pig" prop from Space Truckers:
       | 
       | https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/movie-tv-memorabilia/-squar...
       | 
       | Square Hogs are pigs bred and farmed on Mars:
       | 
       | https://aliens.fandom.com/wiki/Square_Hog
       | 
       | >Square Hogs are merely pigs that have been genetically jacked up
       | and overfed, confined in square cages making them extremely obese
       | and fat.
       | 
       | >The Earth company Inter Pork ship these animals across human
       | space.
        
       | BlandDuck wrote:
       | How does this posting coincide with the posting of this YouTube
       | video. Coincidence? I think not!
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/shorts/8s2_wjUTT-M
        
         | onychomys wrote:
         | Alasdair posted this clip on bluesky, where I saw it. In the
         | comments, Art UK had posted this article as a reply. Once I
         | clicked through, I knew it would be exactly what HN would
         | appreciate, and here we are.
        
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