[HN Gopher] Maslow 4: Large format CNC routing made accessible
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Maslow 4: Large format CNC routing made accessible
Author : mdaniel
Score : 221 points
Date : 2024-11-19 02:09 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.maslowcnc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.maslowcnc.com)
| mdaniel wrote:
| They had a submission 8 years ago[1] but I came across the
| YouTube announcement[2] of their new 4.1 Kickstarter campaign[3].
| It only seeks $16,000 of which they've currently raised $249,000
| based in no small part that they've already shipped several
| successful releases, I'd guess
|
| Their project is open source[4], GPLv3 for the on-device software
| and CC-BY-SA 4 for the cad files
|
| 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12705546
|
| 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5bZfNOZi-A
|
| 3:
| https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/maslow4/maslow41-access...
|
| 4: https://www.maslowcnc.com/source
| RobotToaster wrote:
| > https://www.maslowcnc.com/addendum
|
| I need to know what drama happened to cause this, lol
| leoedin wrote:
| There's a YouTube explainer somewhere. But the basic gist is
| that after developing the first Maslow device as open
| hardware, MakerMade sold their own version (with agreement
| from the original designer, who I don't think wanted to spend
| all his time manufacturing them). Then MakerMade decided they
| owned the "Maslow" name and it all got messy.
| giarc wrote:
| Sounds very "mullenweg"ish.
| mhb wrote:
| This is what it actually does: https://www.maslowcnc.com/about-
| maslow4
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| Aha, a plunge router attached to a Roomba j/k ;). That page is
| very helpful. Hard to say what it's good for unless you're a
| dedicated woodwork buff. Otherwise a jigsaw seems like enough
| for a lot of this.
| Projectiboga wrote:
| I think it can do beveled and rounded edges plus do surface
| cuts* like for cabinent doors. And this will cut even edges,
| jigsaws are trickier for curves. *(likely wrong word)
| zharknado wrote:
| Capabilities that would be most impressive with a jigsaw:
|
| - 50mm of z-axis travel
|
| - Cuts in the center of a 4x8' sheet of material
|
| - Repeatable cuts to a decent tolerance
|
| - Cuts made while you sleep
| diggan wrote:
| > - Cuts made while you sleep
|
| Can you leave the Maslow completely unattended? The video
| examples/timelapses I came across seems to always have a
| person removing sawdust (or something) every X minutes.
| syntaxing wrote:
| It's pretty ill advised to leave any subtractive
| manufacturing machinery unattended
| mhb wrote:
| Can we have a word about my butter sculpture?
| buildsjets wrote:
| Commercial machine shops that run "lights off" typically
| will have continuous process monitoring, automated fire
| detection, automatic fire extinguishing, smoke
| containment and evacuation, and of course the correct
| permits and insurance coverage.
| okaram wrote:
| And, correct me if I'm wrong, they also have a person
| somewhere around and a big red button, right?
| jdietrich wrote:
| Not if they're running lights-out, which is increasingly
| common in machining. A modern machine tool with all of
| the features mentioned above is designed to run
| unattended. It isn't uncommon for bar-feed lathes or
| mills with pallet pools to be actively running for
| >160hrs per week. If you're careful about your parameters
| and run the machine well within its capability, you
| rarely need to hit the big red button. Modern machines
| are smart enough to hit the big red button themselves
| when they really need to, and alert a human to the fact
| that something has interrupted production.
|
| https://www.mscdirect.com/betterMRO/metalworking/definiti
| ve-...
| zharknado wrote:
| Good point, probably ill-advised to sleep with it
| running!
| cpwright wrote:
| There was a Roomba equivalent company out there, which would
| have wheels that drive the motor around, but they never
| shipped. Maslow moves itself by pulling on belts on fixed
| anchor points.
|
| The Shaper Origin has you move the machine, and it makes
| corrections using machine vision to track its position. It
| will give you more accuracy than a Maslow; but at a much
| greater cost and more attention.
|
| A jig saw does not make as clean cuts as a router, and you
| need to have the workpiece suspend so the blade can go
| through the work. With a router, you can just have a
| spoilboard underneath.
| Suppafly wrote:
| >The Shaper Origin has you move the machine, and it makes
| corrections using machine vision to track its position. It
| will give you more accuracy than a Maslow; but at a much
| greater cost and more attention.
|
| I really don't understand the market for the shaper. Even
| the youtubers that get paid to shill them don't seem to
| have a compelling reason to be using them.
| jdietrich wrote:
| Broadly the same market as the Festool Domino. The Domino
| doesn't do anything that you can't do with a dowel jig or
| a biscuit jointer, it's just does one thing quickly,
| accurately and well. The Shaper Origin isn't a
| replacement for a full-sheet CNC router with an ATC, but
| it is an excellent alternative to a plunge router and a
| stack of custom templates. Nobody _needs_ one, but for
| someone who does high-end custom cabinetry and joinery,
| the Origin should give a good ROI.
| jansan wrote:
| I am confused. In some videos it is hanging vertically by two
| wires, but here it seems there are four wires and it works
| horizontally. Are people using both setups?
| xarope wrote:
| In the about link (above), they do mention the frame:
|
| "If you would like to build the frame shown in the video,
| that frame is 12' feet, by 2' by 7' tall."
| etskinner wrote:
| Yes, they support either setup, vertical or horizontal
| emilecantin wrote:
| There are 2 Maslow versions: V1 was hanging from 2 chains,
| and "4" is held from the 4 corners of the workspace, allowing
| it to be used both in the vertical and horizontal
| orientation.
|
| V1 also had the electronics & motors on the frame, while V4
| moved everything on the sled itself. This enables the option
| for the "frame" to be basically just 4 anchors on your garage
| floor, which makes this a very flexible machine.
| linsomniac wrote:
| _nearly_ vertical. It needs 12-15 degrees from vertical.
| Horizontal is fine.
| amelius wrote:
| Is this using any feedback mechanism on the position, or is it
| just feed-forward?
|
| Anyway, I want a machine like this that can paint.
| etskinner wrote:
| There's a little bit of feedback: Each belt has a rotary
| encoder to track position, and the motors apply positive
| torque rather than positive position. This is in contrast to
| how stepper motors work on a 3d printer, for example.
| mhb wrote:
| > Anyway, I want a machine like this that can paint.
|
| https://youtu.be/osUTMnDFV30?si=wLUXKoyTDgfZELKu
| amelius wrote:
| Heh, nice, from the guy who also made a wacky hair cutting
| robot.
|
| I think his approach can be improved if indeed he replaced
| the guiding rails by a system with corner-points only. That
| would make it more user-friendly.
| FlyingAvatar wrote:
| I backed the original Maslow and also the Maslow 4, and recently
| a 4.1 upgrade. The creator is a really dedicated guy and the
| Maslow is a great CNC for those who cut sheets goods from wood
| (though folks have adapted it to other materials) and are OK with
| some tinkering.
|
| There is a decent sized community that supports the software as
| well.
| bradly wrote:
| How straight are its cuts? I've used traditional large 10'x5'
| woodworking CNCs and found them very challenging if not using
| them daily.
| FlyingAvatar wrote:
| I don't have direct experience with long, straight cuts in my
| use case, but based on what I have seen in the forums the
| Maslow 4 is pretty good at them. It has an auto-calibration
| feature that the original did not have which makes it much
| less finicky to dial in than the original Maslow.
|
| In the forums, I have seen people cutting cabinet parts with
| it, so I have to assume the straightness is acceptable, but
| it might be worth asking those who are using it for that
| purpose specifically.
| dyauspitr wrote:
| I wonder if it's possible to have a purely portable system like
| this. So no cables, just omnidirectional wheels and maybe some
| wireless locators in the corner of the room. It would need to
| correct for wheels losing traction, slope etc.
| WillAdams wrote:
| What you are describing is the Goliath CNC:
|
| https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2130625347/goliath-cnc-...
|
| didn't really make it over the long haul.
|
| The Shaper Origin seems more successful:
|
| https://www.shapertools.com/en-us
| hatsix wrote:
| Shaper Origin took a genius approach. There's very little
| movement of the cutting head, and the machine itself is moved
| by the person. You get the precision of CNC, without the
| complexity of moving a machine that is heavy enough to push a
| cutter through wood over an uneven surface
| ano-ther wrote:
| I guess the wheeled approach quickly loses traction when
| trying to exert force. The Shaper Origin avoids that by being
| hand-pushed (with human-level force feedback and control).
| imtringued wrote:
| The entire point of wheels is to provide as little rolling
| resistance as possible. The very idea of Goliath is
| contradictory. You want stiffness and rigidity, while also
| being free to move around. The only way their system could
| work is by having a vacuum clamping system with a movable
| gantry.
| emilecantin wrote:
| This one is relatively portable; everything is self-contained
| on the sled. It just needs four anchors points, and it'll auto-
| detect where they are in relation to each other during the
| calibration process.
|
| A lot of users just have 4 concrete anchors on their garage
| floor, and they put the sled away in a drawer somewhere when
| not in use.
| freeqaz wrote:
| Anybody know if there are any accessible large format 3D printers
| that have big nozzles? (Ie like >1mm)
|
| I briefly looked but there were all crazy $$$ so curious if
| others know!
| numpad0 wrote:
| 1mm nozzles and long leadscrews are generally AliExpress
| available.
|
| Frame and Z-axis rigidity, vibration damping are going to be
| complicated, but super stretching an existing 0.4mm CoreXY to,
| say, 300x300x600mm, isn't that complicated in principle.
| wespiser_2018 wrote:
| The other issue is the heating element. As the nozzle size
| gets larger, the rate limiting factor is no longer the motion
| system and whatever adaptive control, but how fast you can
| melt the plastic.
|
| Most consumer 3d printers can't really take advantage of
| these large size nozzles, although you could print slowly and
| it'd still be cool!
| CarVac wrote:
| You want a really long meltzone like a Chube hotend.
| postalrat wrote:
| I don't think CoreXY scales up nicely because the belts get
| so long.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| For the 'consumer' market, Elegoo's OrangeStorm Giga has
| 800x800mm 3d printer for less than 3000$ USD. Looks it like
| comes with a 0.6mm nozzle, but optionally can put a 1mm nozzle
| on it.
|
| From what I remember of youtube reviewers, plenty of problems
| though, as the first of its kind. Hopefully they get fixed, but
| not sure you'd want to get it now if you just want to print.
| imtringued wrote:
| I hope you're prepared to spend thousands of dollars on
| filament.
| ranger_danger wrote:
| > The included power supply will work with 110-240 volts.
|
| What about 100V for Japan?
| mdaniel wrote:
| I had no idea that was a thing - I guess the great thing about
| standards: so many to choose from :-(
|
| That being said, to the very best of my knowledge (all 30
| minutes of surfing around their project site :-D ) they only
| _recommend_ the Dewalt routers, but I 'd bet it would work just
| fine with whatever local router you could get at your Japanese
| hardware store that is already set up for 100V
| hatsix wrote:
| The Dewalt recommendation is pretty strong. The router needs
| to be the right size to be clamped into the machine. There
| are some people on the forums who have had luck adapting a
| proper CNC cutting head, but you won't find that down at your
| local hardware store.
| numpad0 wrote:
| It's just a cheap brushed motor, it'll run at 100V just fine...
| buildsjets wrote:
| It's 2024. You can buy a voltage/phase converter off of
| aliexpress and convert any random input voltage and phase to
| any random output voltage and phase for a pretty trivial
| expense. I'm using a 5kW one to run a 208v 3 phase motor off of
| 220v one phase in my shop, it cost maybe $100 or so.
| ranger_danger wrote:
| > It's 2024
|
| Not sure what you are implying with that. Not everyone is an
| electronics expert.
| Suppafly wrote:
| Considering it uses a readily available off the shelf router,
| you can presumably get the Japanese version. I suspect the
| Japanese version is probably using the same motor as the US
| version.
| Animats wrote:
| I saw something like this about ten years ago. It was vertical,
| instead of horizontal. The workpiece was set up on a big slanted
| easel, and the router unit was supported by only two cables, with
| gravity pulling it downward. The cable drives were fixed, rather
| than being on the cutting head, so the cutting head was just a
| router and a mechanism to push it away from the workpiece.
| Simple.
| hatsix wrote:
| Probably the first version. It can still be mounted vertical...
| well, close to vertical.
| Animats wrote:
| Yes, here it is.[1]
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60q6U7NjTQ
| Giorgi wrote:
| Very limited practical application.
| cjaackie wrote:
| I was skeptical of the safety of building this until I saw it was
| an off the shelf dewalt with special parts installed. It's more
| reassuring that it's core has been through rigorous testing by a
| reputable manufacturer.
| Suppafly wrote:
| >It's more reassuring that it's core has been through rigorous
| testing by a reputable manufacturer.
|
| Basically every CNC uses some sort of off the shelf router or
| router motor.
| ynoxinul wrote:
| Classic CNC routers use massive frame and rails to eliminate
| play. How is this thing supposed to be precise if it just hangs
| on four cables?
| emilecantin wrote:
| Cables are kevlar-reinforced belts and the machine knows how
| long they are and how much tension in on them so it's
| relatively easy to compute how much they'd stretch under most
| conditions.
|
| The frame these belts are mounted on still needs to be stiff,
| though. A concrete floor is a pretty good option.
| debatem1 wrote:
| I really wanted to love this, but after setting up an older
| version and spending untold hours debugging it I just can't make
| myself believe anymore. I am glad to see them move to four cables
| though-- two + weights was a nice bit of math but not so great as
| physics.
|
| If you're looking at this, think hard about whether it's possible
| to cut a router template for what you want to do on a normal
| sized 2.5D CNC router. It's what I do and is good enough to build
| a business around.
| johnobrien1010 wrote:
| What business did you build around it?
| debatem1 wrote:
| Custom forms for concrete pours. Also did a little bit of
| work making supports for plaster casting.
|
| I was never really able to sell the advantages to artists,
| but got some good side gig money for landscaping stuff.
|
| (Just to clarify: the business is wound down, but I
| personally still use the approach in art projects)
| giarc wrote:
| As someone with access to a big 5x10 CNC and a large laser, I
| much prefer the laser for making forms (acrylic or wood, then
| use jig saw plus trim router). CNCs are just a step up in terms
| of complexity for part time use. You have to consider feeds and
| speed, chip load etc, whereas a laser is much more forgiving.
| However, I realize accessibility for each tool isn't always
| easy.
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| I would love to see an opensource handheld cnc router akin to the
| shaper origin.
|
| https://www.shapertools.com/en-us/origin
| sjpb wrote:
| I loved that idea & tried prototyping one using two "laser"
| mice instead of the tape/vision approach but the accuracy
| wasn't anywhere near good enough
| TKnab wrote:
| There is this https://www.compassrouter.com
|
| Repo here: https://github.com/camchaney/handheld-cnc
|
| Not at all associated with the project, just came across it the
| other day. Look like it uses a single optical mouse sensor and
| corrects in a single dimension at a time.
| inm wrote:
| Have had the parts for one of these sat in a box for a good few
| years now, but unfortunately have never managed to make room to
| build a frame.
|
| Discovered the Lowrider 3d printed CNC a couple of months back
| which better fit the bill for me to be able to store (printing
| gantry on a shelf, bed suspended from the ceiling!) so hoping
| soon that'll enable some of the projects I had in mind for the
| Maslow.
| jollyllama wrote:
| A noble goal, but what is the tradeoffs on a home/small biz
| hacker setting up one of these vs. trying to pick up a comparable
| used solution? Existing CNCs can run for decades with the right
| maintenance. It's not my area of expertise but gcode seems pretty
| standard too.
| jkestner wrote:
| I got the Maslow because I didn't see any other solutions to
| let me cut a 4 x 8 sheet in a small space for that cost.
| Simon_ORourke wrote:
| I'm sure folks like myself living in a city townhouse without the
| luck of having a woodworking studio "out back" are cursing our
| lack of facilities for having this kind of fun.
| giarc wrote:
| On the flip side, if you live in a city townhouse, there's
| likely a makerspace with all this and more. For the cost of
| that Maslow, I get a year membership to my makerspace that has
| a full woodshop, metal shop, electronic benches, sewing, 3D
| printers, large format printers, laser cutters, CNCs etc etc.
| buildsjets wrote:
| This looks like it provides an amazing amount of capability for
| the price, if it meets your needs. ($525 kit + $125 motor, saved
| you some clicking).
|
| For comparison I have an Avid 48x96 bed type CNC router that I am
| into for close to $10k. Obviously the more expensive machine has
| more cutting capability, but I am curious what the actual
| accuracy of this machine is.
|
| I am getting +/- 0.010" or so for large parts, cutting .032"
| thick aluminum 6061-T3. Probably doing better than that on wood
| due to lower cutting forces and less machine deflection.
| emilecantin wrote:
| $125 motor? What are you talking about?
|
| The kit costs $525, and yes you need to supply a trim router
| (they recommend the Dewalt DWP611 which I paid $269 CAD for,
| but members of the community have successfully used other ones)
| which you might already have.
|
| You also need to build a frame, or add anchors to your shop
| floor. This can run you from a few tens of dollars for concrete
| anchors to $300+ if you want to build something fancier.
| buildsjets wrote:
| A Dewalt DWP611 costs me $128.99 USD with free shipping and
| it can be on my doorstop by 4AM.
|
| I'm sorry that you live in a country with an economy is
| managed such that that the same motor costs you more than
| double, but you are the outlier in this dataset.
|
| Maybe next year when the tariffs kick in, we in the US can be
| lucky enough to pay 269 USD for something that costs 129 USD
| currently.
|
| https://a.co/d/6LVfRAI
| emilecantin wrote:
| Oh okay, you call routers "motors"; that's what threw me
| off.
|
| But yeah, price-gouging in Canada is nothing new; even
| factoring exchange rates it should be ~180 CAD.
| penneyd wrote:
| For a full sheet low cost CNC the v4 LowRider is hard to beat
|
| https://docs.v1e.com/lowrider/
| jes5199 wrote:
| I still have the original Maslow in the box it came in :-/ I just
| never had the capacity to get it running, there are steps
| dylan604 wrote:
| So essentially, the SpiderCam minus z-axis?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spidercam
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