[HN Gopher] Mapping the Ionosphere with Phones
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       Mapping the Ionosphere with Phones
        
       Author : gnabgib
       Score  : 91 points
       Date   : 2024-11-13 18:59 UTC (5 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
        
       | acidburnNSA wrote:
       | Interesting use by Google of everyone's android phone data to
       | compute space weather info.
       | 
       | Do users who unknowingly contributed sensor data get a sticker or
       | badge or anything? Reminds me of seti@home.
       | 
       | What else could you do with full control of a global botnet of
       | high powered sensor packs like android phones?
        
         | BobbyTables2 wrote:
         | Imagine if they all transmitted simultaneously in a manner that
         | was phase synchronized at a particular destination...
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | What would you expect to happen?
        
           | RF_Savage wrote:
           | Most current day cellphone antennas don't have phasing for
           | any tuned directionality. There are hard limits to array size
           | due to physics and phones are just very small compared to yhe
           | wavelengths they use.
           | 
           | And then there is the general challenge of synchronizing the
           | transmitter phase. There is only so much that can be done via
           | GNSS.
           | 
           | If cellphone frequencies were not filled with cellphones, it
           | could make for a neat radiotelescope on receive.
        
             | cozzyd wrote:
             | This would be more practical with cell towers I think, but
             | again they have the same GNSS based timing
        
           | itishappy wrote:
           | Ignoring phase synchronization concerns, a cell phone can
           | transmit about 3W of power, so a million of them would be
           | about equivalent to the 3MW of the HAARP transmitter.
           | Frequencies are different, HAARP is in the MHz range, cell
           | phones are GHz, so while I bet your cell phone array would
           | have less effect on the ionosphere, I also bet it it would
           | cook a mean hot pocket.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
           | frequency_Active_Auroral_...
        
       | caf wrote:
       | The existing ground-station ionosphere data mentioned has been
       | used to detect missile launches:
       | https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1216884/detecting-mi...
       | 
       | I imagine you could do the same thing with much better coverage
       | using this distributed ionosphere monitoring method.
        
       | secretsatan wrote:
       | We're doing much more work now with RTK devices in our
       | application and this was recently an issue for us.
       | 
       | A customer had been complaining that the RTK devices we were
       | supporting were not working correctly and I got sent out there to
       | have a look. After some back on forth and getting tests done on
       | site, they revealed they often didn't get good fixes with any
       | equipment between late morning and late afternoon, and that's how
       | I found out about ionospheric interference and the the correction
       | service's ionospheric warning page which consistently reported
       | high interference around these times
        
         | mkesper wrote:
         | What is RTK in this context?
        
           | admash wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-
           | time_kinematic_positionin...
        
             | ramses0 wrote:
             | This is super interesting! For data quality nerdery:
             | "there's no such thing as a string (without an encoding)",
             | "there's no such thing as a timestamp (without a
             | timezone)", and apparently for geo-data:
             | 
             | There's no such thing as a location (without a relative,
             | timestamped, chain of reference points).
             | 
             | eg: 38deg53'52''N 77deg02'11''W (the white house), but
             | needs a timestamp (eg: continental drift, san andreas
             | fault: https://geotripper.blogspot.com/2023/10/why-did-
             | road-cross-s...)
             | 
             | ..and if you're doing this RTK-stuff, you kindof need to
             | know that "chain of custody": Here => There => GPS@time
             | 
             | With GPS, we've kindof lost a lot of surveying / map-
             | reading / orienteering in the general population, but
             | looking at the guy trying to map out where the lines in the
             | parking lot are to sub-millimeter accuracy really points
             | out that it's inherently a relative (and time-fixed)
             | process where the local _relative_ positions might not
             | change really appreciably at all, but relative to GPS, over
             | decades there'd probably be some skew (which could be
             | "corrected", but only if you kept that original "chain of
             | custody" of your measurements).
        
       | mannykannot wrote:
       | This is rather tangential, but I see from the map of Europe that
       | monitoring stations are clustered in three nations - Italy,
       | Portugal and Sweden (at least the southern part of the last,
       | which is as far as the map covers.)
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | From https://research.google/blog/mapping-the-ionosphere-with-
       | the...:
       | 
       | > Knowing the current ionospheric conditions allows a GPS
       | receiver to reduce location error by several meters.
       | 
       | This is amazing
        
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       (page generated 2024-11-18 23:02 UTC)