[HN Gopher] Cane Toads: An Unnatural History (1988)
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       Cane Toads: An Unnatural History (1988)
        
       Author : jjgreen
       Score  : 34 points
       Date   : 2024-11-12 23:52 UTC (5 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cinemasojourns.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cinemasojourns.com)
        
       | croisillon wrote:
       | for future archeologists wondering about the comments: the post
       | title has been changed to "Cane Toads: An Unnatural History" but
       | it was originally "What's Your Favorite Invasive Species?"
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Yes--the thread was just a shallow/generic* list, which doesn't
         | do justice to the interesting article, so we changed the title
         | to that of the documentary which the article is mostly about.
         | I've swept those earlier comments under the rug
         | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42128515) so we can focus
         | on cane toads now!
         | 
         | * a good HN thread is mostly about specifics, not generics:
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
        
         | jjgreen wrote:
         | Ha, not thought that it might be mistaken for an "Ask HN".
         | 
         | Gribbit.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | [stub for offtopicness]
        
         | gregjor wrote:
         | Favorites non-native invasive species? I have to say human
         | beings. Followed by domestic dogs.
        
           | Clubber wrote:
           | FWIW, when researching Virginia Creeper trying to kill my
           | trees, I learned that Virginia Creeper isn't invasive because
           | it is native, so apparently to be considered an invasive
           | plant, it can't be native.
           | 
           | https://www.fs.usda.gov/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenocissus_quinquefolia
        
             | noworriesnate wrote:
             | And the definition of native seems to be: it spread there
             | through natural processes, which often means predating the
             | development of agriculture around 11,000 B.C.
        
         | heraclius1729 wrote:
         | Privet. Freakin' privet. I have spent countless hours trying to
         | eradicate the descendants of a privet hedge that my great
         | grandfather planted a hundred years ago; they've been taking
         | over the nearby forest.
         | 
         | Talk about generational trauma.
        
         | The_Blade wrote:
         | Kudzu
        
         | billfruit wrote:
         | Are air-potatoes an invasive species in the US of A?
        
           | jackmoore wrote:
           | Yes, in Florida
        
         | eesmith wrote:
         | Horses in the US, which fit into the ecological niche of the
         | equidae which died out during the Quaternary extinction event.
        
         | conception wrote:
         | Pretty much every tree in San Diego. Kate Sessions basically
         | reshaped the entire ecosystem and it turned out pretty good?
        
         | Gormo wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | aithrowawaycomm wrote:
           | We should define "invasive species" to mean "species which
           | gets transported to another ecosystem via means beyond its
           | control or natural behavior" and therefore exclude humans.
           | The _Homo_ genus evolved to be highly migratory and climate-
           | adaptable compared to almost all other mammals, and certainly
           | compared to other primates. Crossing into Eurasia was a
           | natural behavior for _Homo sapiens,_ and something we had in
           | common with _erectus_ , though of course we were much more
           | successful.
           | 
           | There is a huge biological distinction between human
           | migration as a natural behavior of the human animal, versus a
           | toad which is deliberately introduced into a distant
           | ecosystem via human intervention, or a spider which
           | accidentally hitches a ride on a piece of driftwood and
           | populates a distant island.
        
             | Gormo wrote:
             | > We should define "invasive species" to mean "species
             | which gets transported to another ecosystem via means
             | beyond its control or natural behavior" and therefore
             | exclude humans.
             | 
             | Why?
             | 
             | And what is the fixed reference point that defines
             | "natural" behavior in contrast to what I would assume you
             | would call "unnatural"? Isn't everything that happens
             | within the constraints of the earth's ecosystem by
             | definition "natural"?
             | 
             | > or a spider which accidentally hitches a ride on a piece
             | of driftwood and populates a distant island.
             | 
             | How and why is that different? If conditions in the natural
             | ecosystem result in the spider ending up in the new island,
             | and its extant traits prove to be a good match to the
             | ecosystem there, resulting in it thriving and reproducing
             | extensively, how is that more like the toad and than the
             | human?
             | 
             | It seems like you are drawing distinctions based on the
             | particular normative ideas that _you_ hold, which are in
             | turn both antropocentric at the macro level, and subjective
             | to you specifically at the micro. I 'm not sure this
             | normative framework is a good analytical model for
             | understanding objective reality.
        
         | swayvil wrote:
         | Most favorite : Cuckoo Pint
         | 
         | Least favorite : Japanese Stiltgrass
        
         | geraldog wrote:
         | Mine is Dioscorea bulbifera
        
         | cjonas wrote:
         | Favorite: earthworms
         | 
         | Least favorite: spotted knapweed
        
           | eszed wrote:
           | Earthworms are invasive?
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworms_as_invasive_speci.
           | ..
           | 
           | TIL. Thank you!
        
         | beretguy wrote:
         | Clover
        
         | A_D_E_P_T wrote:
         | _Kalanchoe delagoensis_ , the chandelier plant. It's nice to
         | look at, tough, supremely prolific, and inedible. A superior
         | and extremely sensible form of life. Give it a few million
         | years, and it's going to take over. (Jointly with Kudzu and
         | Japanese Knotweed.)
        
         | solids wrote:
         | Argentinean ant
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | European Starling - love their plumage and the massive flocks
         | they form in fall.
        
         | api wrote:
         | Homo Sapiens of course, everywhere but a few places in Africa.
         | We're kind of the ultimate invasive species. We have walked on
         | the Moon.
         | 
         | Almost all living humans are colonizers or illegal immigrants
         | if you go back far enough.
        
           | PittleyDunkin wrote:
           | I think you'll find both concepts, at least in widespread
           | use, are fairly novel concepts. Many would define
           | colonization as a financial institution, for instance, not
           | merely migration or displacement/integration. The
           | legalization of immigration is generally a 19th (and
           | certainly 20th) century innovation, as it requires overcoming
           | significant technological barriers associated with
           | identification and centralized bureaucracy.
           | 
           | For instance, my ancestors have lived on this continent for
           | almost exactly 400 years. Only one of them came here legally,
           | and I don't think any came here illegally.
        
         | crafack wrote:
         | Mine is Rosa rugosa.
         | 
         | The mature fruits tastes great as jam, and the seeds is an
         | excellent itching powder!
        
         | DrBazza wrote:
         | Favourite: rabbits. What did the Romans ever do for us?
         | 
         | Least favourite:
         | 
         | American grey squirrel in the UK killed off most of the UK's
         | red squirrels via squirrelpox.
         | 
         | And Green Parakeets are established in quite a few areas of the
         | UK as well.
        
         | gmuslera wrote:
         | For some definition of favorite, I would go with rabbits.
        
           | kristianp wrote:
           | They also became invasive in Australia. Myxomatosis was
           | imtroduced to control them.
        
         | jjkaczor wrote:
         | "Purple loostrife" (Lythrum salicaria) (in Ontario, Canada)
         | 
         | It is certainly pretty - but I hate it because during college,
         | I had a landscaping business with a friend where we had to
         | remove it from a swamp...
        
         | physicsguy wrote:
         | Himalayan basalm is all over the place by rivers in the U.K...
         | its invasive and difficult to remove because in quite a bizarre
         | and cool fashion, when it's ready to disperse seeds, it's seed
         | pod explodes from actually quite gentle physical contact.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/XUOEHDRLDFk?si=6ZyxKQR-SxhZcMWt
        
         | world2vec wrote:
         | Rose-ringed parakeet (Psittacula krameri) in Portugal, my home
         | country. It's very cute and super resilient, no fear of getting
         | endangered.
        
         | BitwiseFool wrote:
         | >"What's Your Favorite Invasive Species?"
         | 
         | Homo sapiens! Their only natural enemy is themselves.
        
       | arlattimore wrote:
       | There is another similar invasive story in Australia to do with
       | the prickly pear, introduced with the First Fleet, later spread
       | uncontrollably across the country and was subsequently conquered
       | using the Cactoblastis Moth.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prickly_pears_in_Australia
       | 
       | These are some of the many reasons why Australia now has very
       | stringent biosecurity laws.
        
       | driggs wrote:
       | "Cane Toads: An Unnatural History" is an outstanding documentary
       | film, and is worth watching even if the topic of invasive toads
       | doesn't catch your immediate interest.
       | 
       | This film's approach to presenting the interaction between man
       | and toad inspired Hamilton Morris, who used it as a conceptual
       | guide when producing his own documentary series. Hamilton
       | interviewed director Mark Lewis in podcast #72.
       | 
       | You can find a full copy of "Cane Toads" on YouTube:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkxwrpJg5W0
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | Great doco.
       | 
       | There's a lot of new lore since the doco, and probably some
       | that's been removed... was that guy really getting high by
       | boiling them?
       | 
       | You can now get cane toad tadpole pheromone lures -
       | https://watergum.org/tadpoletrapping/
       | 
       | > cane toad tadpoles are instinctively drawn to and consume other
       | cane toad eggs <> attraction is driven by a specific pheromone
       | released by the eggs
       | 
       | How university ethic committees kill a cane toad tadpole -
       | 
       | > Current best practice is the stepped hypothermia which involves
       | putting your catch in a container in the fridge, followed by the
       | freezer (8 hours in each will do for tadpoles)
       | 
       | There is some delusional thinking going on there I'll leave to
       | reader.
       | 
       | [edit] Their trap is a cunt to set-up. Great MVP but someone
       | needs to design a floating trap or something.... the sides of a
       | dam are not a consistent gentle slop. A great TikTok/Maker
       | challenge.
       | 
       | Set-up here - https://imgur.com/a/IVnOMPm
        
       | kristianp wrote:
       | I live in Brisbane, QLD and I have seen one frog in the last 8
       | years. It's all cane toads now.
       | 
       | Apparently the population of one species of monitor lizard has
       | fallen by 90% due to cane toads spreading into their habitat.
       | 
       | [1] Monitor lizards trained not to eat toxic cane toads
       | https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35235518
        
       | diptera911 wrote:
       | You can buy a cane toad leather hat with croc teeth from famous
       | Aussie made Jacaru hat brand.
       | 
       | https://jacaru.com/products/1017-outback?variant=29981911941...
        
       | longitudinal93 wrote:
       | A few native birds have developed novel strategies for dealing
       | with them. The jabiru will repreatedly drag them through water
       | until they've released all their poison before consuming them,
       | and the native magpie has learned to flip them on their backs and
       | eat them through their stomachs.
        
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