[HN Gopher] Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after ...
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Four dead in fire as Tesla doors fail to open after crash
Author : json_bourne_
Score : 142 points
Date : 2024-11-16 19:03 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (myelectricsparks.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (myelectricsparks.com)
| ndiddy wrote:
| Another similar incident happened around a week after that one:
| https://www.channel3000.com/news/dane-county-sheriffs-office... .
|
| One thing to note is that the car doors in Teslas are
| electrically controlled and a different failsafe method of
| opening the doors is required when the electrical system isn't
| working. Here's the steps for manually opening the Model Y's rear
| doors (car in the story the post links to):
| https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-AAD769C...
| and here's the steps for manually opening the Model S's rear
| doors (car in the story I linked to):
| https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-AAD769C... .
| Note that this involves removing the rear carpet in the Model S
| and the door pocket mat in the Model Y, and that the Model Y
| instructions note that some cars aren't even equipped with manual
| rear door releases. It seems like Tesla didn't account at all for
| what happens if passengers who aren't familiar with the car need
| to quickly exit in an emergency, especially if the driver's
| incapacitated and can't give them directions.
| rightbyte wrote:
| * Remove the mat from the bottom of the rear door pocket.
| * Press the red tab to remove the access door. * Pull
| the mechanical release cable forward.
|
| It doesn't feel very panic friendly to have the emergency
| release hidden?
| beAbU wrote:
| Especially egregious considering it's likely kids will be
| back there. And the release is in a place thats probably
| impossible to get to from the front seat (in the model Y)
| persedes wrote:
| Munroe on YT complained about exactly that 4 years ago :/
| Symbiote wrote:
| I have written this before [1].
|
| I had to kick the rear door of the family car after an
| accident when I was about 11. The car blocking both doors
| on the other side was on fire, and I was later told our car
| was also on fire.
|
| I wouldn't have known to lift the carpet and pull some
| release tag, and with the door badly damaged from a
| collision I also wouldn't have been able to kick it while
| pulling the tab. It was night, so finding and using a
| glass-smashing tool also seems unlikely.
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25941750
| pininja wrote:
| Every Uber I take in a Tesla would practically need an
| airline safety briefing for this. There's no way I'd find it
| on my own.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| Cancel and rebook (another brand).
| pininja wrote:
| They've had huge pushes to add EVs to their network,
| which is great but this means it's an increasingly likely
| for someone to get stuck. I'd include these instructions
| in their in-app safety center if I were them...
| speedgoose wrote:
| Wouldn't the average car safety be significantly below a
| Tesla Model Y anyway?
| OutOfHere wrote:
| Tesla has the highest fatality rate, so that is ruled
| out! :)
|
| Secondly, it is the coupling of electronic controls with
| unintuitive manual backups that create the danger.
| viraptor wrote:
| That statistic is not controlling for the drivers. It's
| interesting, but it may be biased by who buys Tesla and
| how they drive. Similar to likely "cars with aggressive
| custom paint jobs have higher fatality rate".
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| Doesn't matter if you're getting in someone else's car.
| viraptor wrote:
| Maybe. Taxi drivers have different
| incentives/experience/routes than the other population.
| It may apply to them, or not. For ride share, the choice
| of Tesla may have been mainly economical for them.
| remus wrote:
| > Tesla has the highest fatality rate, so that is ruled
| out! :)
|
| Do you have a source? Genuinely interested. From the
| little reading I've done Tesla seem to have put quite a
| bit of thought in to making their cars perform well in
| crash tests so it seems surprising that they'd have a
| high fatality rate.
| atoav wrote:
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2023/12/18/tesla
| -ha...
| speedgoose wrote:
| Isn't it missing the death aspect ?
| OutOfHere wrote:
| "Tesla Has Highest Fatal Accident Rate of All Auto
| Brands: Study" (2024)
|
| https://autos.yahoo.com/tesla-highest-fatal-accident-
| rate-16...
| remus wrote:
| Interesting quote from that piece:
|
| > The study's authors make clear that the results do not
| indicate Tesla vehicles are inherently unsafe or have
| design flaws. In fact, Tesla vehicles are loaded with
| safety technology; the Insurance Institute for Highway
| Safety (IIHS) named the 2024 Model Y as a Top Safety
| Pick+ award winner, for example. Many of the other cars
| that ranked highly on the list have also been given high
| ratings for safety by the likes of IIHS and the National
| Highway Transportation Safety Administration, as well.
|
| > So, why are Teslas -- and many other ostensibly safe
| cars on the list -- involved in so many fatal crashes?
| "The models on this list likely reflect a combination of
| driver behavior and driving conditions, leading to
| increased crashes and fatalities," iSeeCars executive
| analyst Karl Brauer said in the report. "A focused, alert
| driver, traveling at a legal or prudent speed, without
| being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, is the
| most likely to arrive safely regardless of the vehicle
| they're driving."
| speedgoose wrote:
| I would still favour the car that has good crash test
| safety scores and AI powered safety features that work
| relatively well according to independent tests, over the
| random taxi.
|
| But otherwise I agree, the door opening mechanism should
| be improved.
| everybodyknows wrote:
| Why not do the first two steps, and stow the mat and access
| door on a shelf in your garage?
| more_corn wrote:
| Yeah that's not happening when you're literally on fire.
| pininja wrote:
| Regulations are written in blood.. it's really disappointing to
| see a car make it to production without an obvious mechanical
| way to open the door. I've been in many teslas and hadn't given
| this much thought, figuring there'd surely be a way to open the
| door if I need to get out.
| nemomarx wrote:
| why are the doors electronically controlled to start with? is
| it cost savings?
| eptcyka wrote:
| It is more cyber that way. Also, yes, electromechanical
| systems are easier to design.
| stouset wrote:
| There's still a second mechanical release so this is
| strictly more complicated than simply having a mechanical
| system to begin with.
| eptcyka wrote:
| Routing the mechanical linkage to a place in the door
| that would make sense for a door handle to be is the
| difficult and expensive part.
| davrosthedalek wrote:
| Bowden cables are dirt cheap.
| eptcyka wrote:
| The cables are cheap, designing a door latch system to be
| easy to install/cheap to manufacture is not. Why do you
| think all parking brakes on all ICE vehicles have turned
| electric now?
| newaccount74 wrote:
| Probably because forgetting to pull the handbrake is a
| very common cause of accidents?
| cyberax wrote:
| They use frameless windows, so the electronic release
| slightly lowers them to avoid them scraping the door frame.
| PittleyDunkin wrote:
| Why do they want frameless windows?
| dagmx wrote:
| Frameless windows are aesthetically pleasing to many
| people. Tesla aren't alone in that preference, they are
| just one of the few brands that use frameless by default
| even on the lowest end vehicles they sell, so there's a
| higher number out there.
| onetokeoverthe wrote:
| at the funeral...
|
| "at least they had pleasing windows."
| throwuxiytayq wrote:
| Why do they want glued-on RAM and SSDs?
| OptionOfT wrote:
| In 2008 I had a BMW Convertible with frameless doors. When
| you pulled the door handle the window dropped. Same from
| the inside.
| neuralRiot wrote:
| Every car with frameless windows does this without the
| need for a death-trap electric door release, i work in
| McLarens and the windows will drop if the battery gets
| low so you can open the vertical doors with a dead
| battery.
| lttlrck wrote:
| Dropping the windows on frameless doors goes back to at
| least the 90s and mechanical door handles.
|
| I wouldn't be surprised if it goes back even earlier and
| someone even tried it entirely mechanically without
| electric windows...
|
| Update: it looks like it was first done on 1946 Buick
| convertibles.
| yibg wrote:
| There were plenty of older frameless doors where the door
| itself opens mechanically and the window lowers slightly. A
| lot of the older subarus for example.
|
| What's special about Tesla (or any of the other newer cars
| with full electrical door opening mechanisms) that makes
| this not an option?
| cyberax wrote:
| > What's special about Tesla (or any of the other newer
| cars with full electrical door opening mechanisms) that
| makes this not an option?
|
| Cost-cutting, mostly.
| dagmx wrote:
| A lot of cars have electronically controlled doors.
|
| It's due to the frameless windows. Opening the door requires
| the windows to roll down slightly to avoid damage to the
| outer trim.
|
| The doors still have a mechanical release so there's no cost
| savings involved. For the front door they're right next to
| the electronic release. For the rear doors they're hidden
| under the passenger door pocket.
|
| Edit: to everyone replying I never said it was a necessity. I
| explained why they did it. I'm aware of alternate approaches.
| bahmboo wrote:
| Not necessarily. Many cars have manual doors and frameless
| windows. A 1996 Subaru comes to mind. Tesla could easily
| make the windows dip when a mechanical handle was
| activated.
|
| Electronic door latches are fine, it's the backup mechanism
| that is the problem. Some cars have the mechanical
| alternate forward of the electrical release such that if
| you are grabbing frantically you would eventually pull it.
| This still looks minimal if that is more important than
| safety.
| tirant wrote:
| Most current BMWs with frameless windows still have
| mechanical door openings (e.g. BMW i4).
| badgersnake wrote:
| Indeed, my 2001 E46 BMW had this. It's not complicated or
| new.
| xbar wrote:
| This is a design choice, not a requirement.
|
| My frameless-windows 2007 car uses a mechanical door latch
| and the window rolls down slightly as I pull the latch.
| hughesjj wrote:
| Also every convertible ever
| dvdbloc wrote:
| I always thought it was a luxury item like soft close doors
| on high end luxury cars. Supposed to feel premium compared to
| actually pulling a mechanical handle.
| DrillShopper wrote:
| To make the marks they're selling the death sedans to feel
| like they have something special until the vape batteries
| under the car spontaneously combust and roast them like a gas
| station hotdog
| noncoml wrote:
| Lexus's latest cars have electrically controlled doors as well.
| The mechanical failover is a bit better mind you, you have to
| pull twice instead of pushing, but I am not sure how panic
| proof it is.
|
| I live techlnology but IMHO it is overdone in modern cars.
| Please bring back tactile and mechanical controls where
| possible.
| globalise83 wrote:
| What is an "unlikely event" for any given passenger is nearly a
| 100% certainty for Tesla. The engineers and product managers
| who came up with that solution probably have trouble sleeping
| at night these days.
| solardev wrote:
| I bet they wanted something more obvious but were overridden
| by someone who wanted to keep the vehicle sleek and
| futuristic. If so, it's the worst kind of "I told you so" :/
| renewedrebecca wrote:
| But _who_ at Tesla would do that?
| DrillShopper wrote:
| Someone told me something that stuck with me: "for any system
| with millions of users a 1 in a million event happens
| multiple times a day"
| giantg2 wrote:
| "Tesla didn't account at all for what happens ..."
|
| Tesla might not have, but you can. Always have a glass breaker
| and seatbelt cutter in your vehicle. Doors get crumpled and
| can't open regardless of make/model.
| jeffbee wrote:
| "Police say area man had burglary tools and weapons in his
| vehicle at the time of the arrest..."
| fallingsquirrel wrote:
| > Always have a glass breaker
|
| Isn't this advice becoming dated now that most new cars have
| side windows with laminated glass?
|
| https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28422725/car-windows-
| glas...
| dyauspitr wrote:
| Still probably easier to kick out a laminated window with
| cracks in it.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| Kick out the window with a very forceful boot kick with
| both legs.
| viraptor wrote:
| That advice will work for significantly limited number of
| population. Like, it's true, but also "hope you have
| enough mass/strength/flexibility". My little-old-lady
| neighbour could not do it.
| trinix912 wrote:
| > Note that this involves removing the rear carpet in the Model
| S and the door pocket mat in the Model Y
|
| Seriously? How many people would be capable of pulling this
| stunt off in a burning vehicle filled with smoke? Especially
| considering the fact that in this case the vehicle was packed
| (5 people in it)--it's hard enough to get your own feet out of
| the way.
|
| If this passes the safety regulations, those regulations should
| be changed. Not just expecting car manufacturers to do it out
| of their good will because they won't.
| unsnap_biceps wrote:
| Regulations are written in blood. This is likely the first
| time a mass produced car went this far in not caring about
| the humans inside. I would say that they will be new
| regulations soon, but given the political climate in the US,
| I'm unsure if it will actually happen.
|
| We can only hope that Canada and other countries takes the
| lead and forces the improvements to passenger safety.
| trog wrote:
| Someone on Mastodon pointed out that not all Model Ys even have
| the manual release. I didn't believe this could be true - how
| could regulators allow this?
|
| But it's actually listed on the Model Y page
| (https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-
| AAD769C...): "Note Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a
| manual release for the rear doors."
|
| Not sure what the distribution is or whether it's just an "old
| version" problem?
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| Some countries may not require it, though it does seem pretty
| suspicious to omit that, regardless of what regulatory quirks
| there are in the world.
| DrillShopper wrote:
| Damn if only we had the tech to open doors mechanically.
| Imagine that world. I hope Elon takes a few weeks away from
| destroying the US Government in January to think about this./s
|
| For real though, I hope the relatives of the deceased take Elon
| personally and Tesla as a company for all they're worth.
| semiquaver wrote:
| > Note: Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual
| release for the rear doors.
|
| Astounding.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| > Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual release for
| the rear doors.
|
| Yikes. Makes me wonder if this is market-dependent. I mean, do
| you expect "Emergency manual door release" to be a line item in
| Tesla's configurator? Didn't think so.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| The model Y's inability to roll down its rear windows is another
| safety liability. I had to vomit out of an Uber and had much
| difficulty getting my head out the tiny opening.
| dagmx wrote:
| Perhaps you mean "roll it down all the way", but it most
| definitely can roll down most of the way.
|
| As someone with a large head myself, I can most definitely fit
| it out comfortably of mine.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| I don't have a large head. There is zero chance of crawling
| out the window if you're trapped in these cars.
| dagmx wrote:
| That's a different point entirely. You talked about being
| unable to fit your head out comfortably. I addressed that.
| Reason077 wrote:
| If the door won't open electrically, then very likely the
| power windows won't work either.
|
| So to be able to crawl out the window, you'd have to break
| the glass, which would make the full size of the opening
| available.
| Beijinger wrote:
| Real life problems. Thanks for sharing :-)
| namdnay wrote:
| That's not really specific to Tesla. Lots of cars have rear
| windows that only hinge open slightly
| Reason077 wrote:
| This is an issue with many modern cars, not just Tesla. The
| rear windows physically can't roll all the way down due to the
| shape of the doors.
|
| One way to solve it might be to design a window mechanism where
| the glass rotates in the frame rather than just sliding on a
| single axis. But as always, there's a cost and complexity trade
| off.
| crazygringo wrote:
| > _Tesla has faced criticism in the past for the design of its
| manual release levers, which are considered poorly designed and
| unintuitively placed. These emergency measures require intimate
| knowledge of the car, something that may not be feasible in a
| panic situation._
|
| First, how is this remotely legal? Are there not safety standards
| to ensure adults can easily exit a vehicle on fire?
|
| Second, regardless of regulations, what on earth were they
| thinking at Tesla? Cars catch on fire and need fast emergency
| exit. Do they not care that their passengers might die?
|
| I am absolutely horrified by this. Those poor passengers.
| uberdru wrote:
| Not to mention the way these things burn. Basically an inferno.
| . .
| RoyTyrell wrote:
| And now he's bought his way into US aristocracy so he can do
| whatevr he wants and no one can stop him. He doesn't like
| criticism from the NTHSB? Well he can deem the NTHSB
| "inefficient" and have it downsized and the leaders sacked.
| Does the FTC think he's lying about his self-driving claims?
| Well maybe the FTC is inefficient and he just makes a call to
| Trump and the DoJ won't be investigating anything either. The
| US is now completely an oligarchy and kleptocracy.
| BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
| To be fair we've been ruled by corporations for a while.
| davidw wrote:
| This is taking it to another level.
| dwattttt wrote:
| After all the other levels it's been taken to? Surely
| not!
| archagon wrote:
| This is completely true, but it does mean his cars will be
| unsellable elsewhere in the developed world.
| bdjsiqoocwk wrote:
| Don't worry, I'm confident that with Enron Musk at the
| Department of Government Efficiency, if this is illegal now it
| won't be for much longer. People like Musk are just natural
| born problem solvers.
| mmooss wrote:
| Actions speak. Also, think of the many hours, spent by many
| people, designing, testing, writing the manual, manufacturing,
| etc. Lots of people need to sleep at night.
|
| On the other hand, many in our society devalue human life in
| the name of progress, anti-liberal politics, etc. If society
| shrugs at Covid deaths, war deaths, oppression, climate change
| death and costs - why worry about this?
| proee wrote:
| This seems like a huge failure on the part of the NTSB. Tesla
| is getting a lot of attention for this incident, but are there
| other manufactures that would have had the exact same problem
| given this same incident?
|
| The entire point of organizations like the NTSB is to prevent
| unsafe cars from going into production.
|
| The NTSB has given this type of door opening a green light.
| WHY?
| proee wrote:
| In reading a bit on this topic: According to the NTSB,
| vehicle models with automatic locking doors should
| automatically unlock after an accident.
|
| This begs the question did the door automatically unlock?
| Perhaps the vehicle was so damaged that the door could not be
| opened due to structural damaged to the door itself.
| unsnap_biceps wrote:
| Unlock doesn't mean unlatched, right?
|
| The emergency release cable is to unlatch the door.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| Unfortunately the NTSB doesn't actually have that power...
|
| It's an investigative agency, intended to investigate
| accidents and make recommendations. Unfortunately, they're
| just that: recommendations, not mandates. It's up to the
| agencies that govern the respective industries to issue
| regulations enforcing those recommendations (i.e., the NHTSA
| or FAA).
| proee wrote:
| The tolerance on many doors is such that even with a slight
| amount of damage, they are "physically" unable to open. The
| latch mechanism can get "jammed". Per the NTSB, they recommend
| that all electronic locks disengage in the case of an accident.
| Does Tesla follow this recommendation?
|
| It's possible the vehicle was damaged in such a way that none
| of the door could open because of mechanical interferences.
| debo_ wrote:
| I'm waiting for a new regulation that requires all EVs to have a
| sledgehammer in the passenger cabin.
| creesch wrote:
| How about a simple tiny safety hammer instead. The ones a lot
| of cars (at least here in the EU) are already outfitted with.
| As others have pointed out, any car should have such a hammer.
| trinix912 wrote:
| I'd assume it doesn't do much with laminated (rear) windows.
| It would require way too much force to break them enough to
| crawl out.
|
| Also, I've only seen those on busses, never in cars (I'm in
| the EU as well).
| snapetom wrote:
| For a long time, I lived in an area with a lot of creeks and
| rivers. Since my first car with electric windows and locks, I
| keep something like this:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-...
|
| in the glove box or center console. Call me paranoid, but I
| don't trust the electronic system to work if my car is sinking.
| teruakohatu wrote:
| Don't Tesla gloves boxes require the touch screen to open?
| tokai wrote:
| Everyone should have a glass breaker in their car. Even if the
| car has mechanical doors.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| It is said that the glass breaker no longer helps with
| laminated side windows. What then. Kicking the window out, if
| that's even possible, could be the only way.
| tamimio wrote:
| Unfortunately kicking doesn't work, it needs to be strong
| enough with momentum which you can't do from the inside with
| current position, not to mention any injuries from the
| impact.
| tamimio wrote:
| I have two in the compartment between the front seats, and I
| also have an axe secured under the seat. However, accidents are
| random events; you never know what will happen. If these tools
| are still in place, can you reach them, and are you able to use
| them, among other things? So I wouldn't count on it in the
| slightest.
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| I'll leave a thought that isn't a Tesla criticism (because the
| others are good): everybody should carry a lifehammer in their
| car. If not for saving your own life, it might come in handy for
| saving somebody else's.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Lifehammer-Brand-Safety-Hammer-Nether...
|
| Don't buy the cheap Chinese knockoffs.
| snapetom wrote:
| I'd add that for anything your life depends on, my general rule
| is don't buy from Amazon. Buy from the manufacturer. Way too
| many counterfeits on Amazon.
| pyrophane wrote:
| Note that these tools don't work if you have laminated side
| windows, which many cars now do!
| BuyMyBitcoins wrote:
| I don't know much about laminated windows, but would a $5
| hammer from a hardware store work?
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| laminated windows have a layer of plastic in them. You need
| a cutting tool.
|
| https://youtu.be/DyZrQ3Q0ZR0?t=75
|
| Also I know this video has a firefighter in it but I will
| tell you that FFs are more likely to use a sawzall than a
| hand tool.
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| Ouhh didn't realize that cars switched up windows so much. Is
| there a modern alternative tool that a common person could
| use?
| ch1234 wrote:
| I don't buy safety/medical products from Amazon. There was a
| time (maybe even today still) where those products go into a
| big bin with no verification of who the actual supplier was
| (1st vs 3rd party). I don't know how to verify if the issue has
| been resolved today, but life-critical items such as
| tourniquets, meds, etc. are expected to be 100% made by the
| supplier. Unfortunately, the money in the industry is so big
| that "cheap Chinese knockoffs" are being sold as high-quality
| replicas, even though they may not meet all the required specs.
|
| There were many cases a few years ago of people buying branded
| tourniquets, only to be sold fake ones. The item looked
| genuine, but the integrity of the plastic could not maintain
| the pressures needed and broke. An emergency is not the time to
| realize that mistake.
| OptionOfT wrote:
| https://www.lifehammerproducts.com/app/uploads/2024/06/20240...
|
| Lifehammers don't work on laminated glass, like your front
| windshield (that would be bad, as it would mean a rock chip
| would shatter your window).
|
| But more and more manufactures are putting in laminated side
| windows in their cars both for comfort (noise) and rollover
| protection, so Lifehammers don't work there either.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptaIBTyiKkc
|
| I believe in the USA lots of tests are actually done without
| seatbelts, and this makes the requirements harder to meet.
| Upvoter33 wrote:
| This isn't a solution though; the driver of an uber may have a
| lifehammer somewhere, but the passengers don't know about it.
| It is simply criminal not to have an obvious way to open the
| door.
| remram wrote:
| This is way too big for everyday carry, just in case my Lyft
| happens to be a model S. They should forbid those as cabs or
| take them off the road entirely.
| Havoc wrote:
| wow. That's genuinely scary. Sitting on top of a lithium fire
| while locked in seems terrifying.
|
| I wonder whether legislators should require inclusion of one of
| those glass break hammers in each car?
| criddell wrote:
| Would those hammers work on Tesla windows? IIRC, they now use
| laminated glass (like windshield glass) on the door windows as
| well.
| mgarfias wrote:
| My Chevrolet truck while having an actual door latch, doesn't
| open the doors if they're locked. You have to pull twice.
|
| Is that an electronic counter (likely) or mechanical? If the
| latter, no big deal, if the former it's even worse than the Tesla
| - at least my MY has a separate mechanical over ride.
| serf wrote:
| older generation BMWs do this same thing; it's achieved by a
| ratchet system on the door handle that interacts with the
| mechanically actuated lock.
|
| it isn't electronic in the case of BMW. I don't know what
| Chevrolet does.
| alex1138 wrote:
| You know, I was really sad when the Shuttle retired in 2011
| (which itself had numerous safety problems they probably had to
| fix). And this glowing idea SpaceX will aid us onwards into the
| future, blah blah.
|
| I hope to god SpaceX doesn't act in a careless way like Tesla has
| been accused of doing
| sorenjan wrote:
| They damaged at least one car when their launch pad was
| suddenly distributed over a large area, throwing concrete
| pieces at least 6.5 miles.
|
| https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-04-26/spacex-sta...
| browningstreet wrote:
| I recently had a break-in to my Tesla. All captured on sentry
| mode. The thief got in with a subtle, barely visible stab of
| their wrist. The Tesla service person who replaced my window
| figured it was a spark plug. In the video they barely make
| contact with my window and the whole window shatters, completely.
|
| So maybe at least storing spark plugs in each door bin.
|
| (Btw none of the relevant police jurisdictions cared a whit about
| the break in. There were cameras where it occurred. I'm not sure
| what the societal discouragement is for car break-jns. Seems like
| the relevant authorities have basically granted permission to car
| hooliganism. They took the police report but explicitly
| acknowledged no one would look at it.)
| trallnag wrote:
| Are you living in a good neighborhood?
| Ccecil wrote:
| It is the spark plug insulator. They are using the ceramic from
| it to break the glass. I remember hearing about this in the 90s
| with thieves carrying insulators on strings in their pockets.
|
| https://www.carparts.com/blog/can-a-spark-plug-break-a-windo...
|
| note from the article: "Keeping Spark Plug Shards Might Be
| Illegal in Your State" so keep that in mind
| fHr wrote:
| You want less regulations, so deal with the consequences.
| Upvoter33 wrote:
| This is why it's so dumb to want "more" or "less" regulation;
| clearly, there is some regulation we want, and some we might
| not. We should always be arguing specifics, not generalities.
| newobj wrote:
| Don't trust software engineers to handle edge cases and failure
| modes
| syndicatedjelly wrote:
| Or teach them? Risk management is something any (and every)
| engineer should learn
| remram wrote:
| That's what regulation and compliance is for. Engineers are
| actually very good with those.
| Syonyk wrote:
| > _This tragic incident has sparked a debate about the safety
| features of electric vehicles and the necessity for more
| intuitive emergency mechanisms._
|
| Tesla is an ever-more-irritating case study in what happens when
| you throw out all the accumulated wisdom of an industry,
| dismissing them as aging dinosaurs, because _you know code._
|
| For most of the last century and change, cars have had some
| predictable behaviors. In the event of a total power loss
| (engine, electrical, etc), you can still steer the car, brake the
| car to a safe and controlled stop, and get out of the car. As far
| as I knew, these were basic certification requirements, once
| those things came around. You can't do a pure drive-by-wire
| system, because _when_ (not if, _when_ ) things go badly wrong,
| you still need to be able to control the vehicle. This is why we
| have mechanical linkages between the steering wheel and the front
| wheels, hydraulic brakes that function without booster vacuum,
| mechanical door opening levers, etc.
|
| In a panic situation, say, "car is on fire," people are not going
| to calmly consider how to remove bits of carpet and access the
| emergency release mechanism _they don 't know about._ They are
| going to yank on the normal door opening lever, repeatedly. It
| should be a basic certification requirement that _this works,_ at
| least for the front doors (I 'm willing to grant that the rear
| doors can have the "interior handle disabled" child safety
| things, but also, once your kids are out of car seats, this
| shouldn't be left enabled).
|
| Tesla's arrogance about the lessons learned by the last century
| of the auto industry is killing people. I'm sure they've
| justified it internally as "Well, once our self driving stuff is
| working, our cars will never crash or fail so this doesn't
| matter," but come on. It's been a decade and that stuff still
| isn't working, so maybe put some mechanical door handles on your
| cars.
| davidw wrote:
| Wait until that same throwing out the accumulated wisdom is
| applied to the US government...
| sorenjan wrote:
| There are keychain sized glass breakers available, maybe a good
| christmas present for a Tesla owner? Although I don't know if
| they still carry keys.
| jonpurdy wrote:
| Just calling out the poor way this (and many) articles write
| about car accidents. I'm not a Tesla fan at all but blaming Tesla
| for the crash is incorrect.
|
| (It is correct to blame them for the way the door locks work
| though and therefore can be blamed for the excess injuries/deaths
| that result from the design decision.)
|
| From the article:
|
| > Four people were killed in a fire after a Tesla Model Y lost
| control and hit a pillar in Toronto last month.
|
| > Five people were trapped inside a Tesla Model Y after it
| crashed and burst into flames The Tesla didn't lose control, the
| human driver lost control of the vehicle.
|
| From a previous article the day after:
|
| > Police said the driver of the Tesla lost control of the vehicle
| while travelling at a high rate of speed and collided with a
| guard rail. The vehicle then struck a concrete pillar, they said,
| before bursting into flames.
|
| If it wasn't for the irresponsible driving on the part of the
| human driver, this incident wouldn't have occurred in the first
| place. The driver paid for this with their and others' lives.
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| >It is correct to blame them for the way the door locks work
| though and therefore can be blamed for the excess
| injuries/deaths that result from the design decision.
|
| This is what is being discussed here: that four people burned
| to death because they were unable to exit the vehicle.
| ncr100 wrote:
| Tragic.
|
| And disappointing that the Tesla PR department is not responding
| to the public's questions, according to this article.
| tamimio wrote:
| https://archive.is/2024.11.16-143549/https://myelectricspark...
|
| One of the reasons I will never buy an electric car, the
| batteries are dormant bombs.
| more_corn wrote:
| Nightmare fuel
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