[HN Gopher] Wonder is acquiring Grubhub
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Wonder is acquiring Grubhub
        
       Author : endtwist
       Score  : 109 points
       Date   : 2024-11-13 19:12 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (about.grubhub.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (about.grubhub.com)
        
       | chirau wrote:
       | How do these deals work?
       | 
       | I am assuming, and I could be very wrong, that Wonder is smaller
       | by market cap than Grubhub.
        
         | mkl wrote:
         | Wonder was valued at 3.5 billion USD in 2022:
         | https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/17/marc-lores-food-delivery-s...
        
         | avrionov wrote:
         | Both companies are not public. The investors need to agree on
         | the price and the deal is done.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | Both companies are private, so neither has a "market cap". They
         | just need to agree on a price.
         | 
         | In this case, GrubHub had taken on a bunch of debt; Wonder
         | agreed to assume it, and GrubHub's owners/investors get $150M
         | in cash.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _Both companies are private, so neither has a "market cap"_
           | 
           | Private companies have shares. Given a per-share price, you
           | can get a market cap. For a company with debt, like GrubHub,
           | enterprise value is a better metric.
        
             | zemo wrote:
             | > Given a per-share price
             | 
             | how do you know the per-share price
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _how do you know the per-share price_
               | 
               | Same way you do for a public company. From trades and
               | valuations. Private shares exchange hands in private
               | transactions as well as almost every time the company
               | raises money. If a company issues incentive stock
               | options, they're required to calculate a 409A price,
               | which while a bullshit number, is indeed a per-share
               | price.
               | 
               | Corporations, by law, have shares.
        
               | zemo wrote:
               | > Same way you do for a public company. From trades and
               | valuations.
               | 
               | how do you know what trades took place, and how many
               | shares were traded, and at what price?
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _how do you know what trades took place, and how many
               | shares were traded, and at what price?_
               | 
               | Company generally has these records. Various other
               | sources, _e.g._ PitchBook, compile them. In some
               | jurisdictions ( _e.g._ UK and India) they have to be
               | publicly announced, though that 's becoming less common.
               | 
               | TL; DR It is incredibly wrong to suggest private
               | companies don't have a market cap. As in finance 101
               | wrong.
        
               | zemo wrote:
               | > Same way you do for a public company. From trades and
               | valuations.
               | 
               | no, it's not the same, because the information is not
               | publicly available. They are the same in that in both
               | cases you multiply two numbers together; they are not the
               | same inasmuch as your ability to know those numbers is
               | vastly different. To say they're the same is misleading.
        
       | bsimpson wrote:
       | Those weird ghost kitchen things have more than half a billion
       | dollars to spend on acquisitions?!
       | 
       | I wonder how this came to be - did they already have that big of
       | a war chest, or did they hear they could buy a name brand and go
       | back to their investors to finance it?
        
         | philip1209 wrote:
         | Grubhub has revenue, which means they _might_ be able to
         | finance the acquisition with debt.
        
         | snarf21 wrote:
         | I see this is as simply buying scale more quickly than they
         | could grow organically.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | I'll look up the addresses of restaurants on Uber Eats, using
         | street view, before ordering. Most of them are at bodegas or
         | otherwise non-restaurant spaces.
        
           | Gormo wrote:
           | I recently saw a new burger joint pop up on Uber Eats with an
           | address not far from my home. It turned out to be the address
           | of the last remaining Ruby Tuesday restaurant in my area, but
           | the burger place did not advertise any connection to Ruby
           | Tuesday. Seemed very sketchy to me.
        
         | skywhopper wrote:
         | Looks like they only spent $150M in cash and took on $500M of
         | debt to do the ancquisition. They raised $250M from outside
         | investors to pay for it. So sounds like they have $100M to try
         | to make a go of it.
         | 
         | I expect the value to go way down as they squeeze all sides of
         | the equation: drivers, restaurants, and customers.
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | IMHO it's sort of the inverse*: its not that weird ghost
         | kitchen things have $500 mil for acquisitions, its that Marc
         | Lore has enough salesmanship to get private capital to lend
         | $100M to get a turnkey delivery business for his food
         | entrepreneurship, and the banker loans can pretty it up to
         | sound like $600M, and the decision makers at GrubHub get a
         | mildly-embarrassing outcome instead of an extreme outcome.
         | (shutdown)
         | 
         | * I know a decent amount about finance, but don't practice it
         | daily enough to find it second nature. I'd appreciate a
         | similarly colloquial perspective from someone who reads me as
         | naive.
        
           | mgiampapa wrote:
           | I think that future loosening of the credit markets due to
           | political factors is also playing a roll. By the time the
           | runway is spent they may expect to be in a very different
           | market so buying scale now is the move.
        
         | xyst wrote:
         | They don't have jack shit. It's all based on hype, keep the
         | train rolling so the early investors can get their cut while
         | the other suckers hold the bag
        
           | akudha wrote:
           | I suppose these career options have _relatively_ much higher
           | chances of making good money:
           | 
           | 1. Become a corporate lawyer, charge by the hour - win or
           | lose, lawyers get paid
           | 
           | 2. Run a soulless media company - rake in the ad dollars from
           | both parties (during elections) and other soulless companies
           | spending VC money on advertising (all the time)
           | 
           | 3. Be early investor, pump and dump
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | I have a bad feeling about Wonder. One opened near my office
         | and had a load of free meal promotions and it was packed. A few
         | weeks later it went very quiet. I had a few meals and they were
         | decidedly meh. The promise of ordering options across a dozen
         | different cuisines is appealing but not when all of them are
         | underwhelming.
        
         | skizm wrote:
         | Apparently they have totaled ~$1.7B in funding according to
         | Bloomberg:
         | 
         | > Lore's startup also raised $250 million in equity investment,
         | bringing the total amount of capital it's secured to $1.7
         | billion
        
       | jaymzcampbell wrote:
       | Mentions the $650mln they'll pay Just Eat for it, neglects the
       | fact Just Eat paid $7.3bln. Quite the write down. And in just 4
       | years.
        
         | popcalc wrote:
         | Where did all the money go?
        
           | schmidtleonard wrote:
           | Lowered expectations.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | Earlier investors. Ever hear of _pump and dump_? After you
           | sell you're insulated from future performance as long as you
           | don't commit actual fraud etc.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _Earlier investors. Ever hear of pump and dump?_
             | 
             | When did GrubHub buy early investors' shares with company
             | cash?
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Early investors had already "sold" the company well
               | before this transaction:
               | https://about.grubhub.com/news/grubhub-stockholders-
               | approve-...
               | 
               | It was an all stock transaction, so they maintained an
               | indirect stake but it was significantly diluted:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Eat_Takeaway.com
               | Meanwhile Just Eat Takeaway investors got taken for a
               | ride.
        
           | rpcope1 wrote:
           | Well, when you're in the business of selling a dollar for
           | eighty cents, all the money probably got flushed down the
           | toilet.
        
             | darth_avocado wrote:
             | You get $10/month dining credits if you're an Amex card
             | holder. Imagine the cost of all promotions.
        
               | hunter2_ wrote:
               | I always wondered if the promotions were handled with
               | restaurants more like "we (the platform) recoup our promo
               | losses via the regular platform fee you (the restaurant)
               | pay regardless" or more like "if a customer uses a
               | promotion, we (platform and restaurant) split the loss,
               | unrelated to the regular platform fee". Like when I use a
               | platform promo for reasons well beyond trying a new place
               | for the first time, am I screwing the restaurant, the
               | platform, or some combination?
        
               | eszed wrote:
               | Mostly the restaurant, at least in the case of these
               | companies' "free delivery" membership deals. Restaurants
               | pay a higher commission on those orders. (Whether that's
               | enough to outweigh the operating deficit built into their
               | current pricing I have no idea, but some fraction is
               | being passed along to their merchant "partners".)
        
             | 0x0000000 wrote:
             | How were they selling a dollar for 80 cents? The actual
             | food is more expensive on grubhub than ordering through the
             | restaurant, and then there are multiple fees on top of
             | that.
        
               | bena wrote:
               | But there is the cost of hosting, developers, drivers,
               | etc.
               | 
               | And that's all cost that is not borne by the restaurant.
               | 
               | And there _is_ a limit to how much people would pay to
               | get something delivered. So they 're probably pricing the
               | delivery, etc less than they've actually paid.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | We've seen this before and we'll see it again. There are
               | lots of people who will pay for things below cost.
               | Sometimes that cost comes down but a lot of the time it
               | does not especially in relatively affluent countries. I
               | don't have a personal driver or chef like I might have in
               | some places. I do have some other house/yard services but
               | very occasionally and I consider them luxuries.
        
               | makestuff wrote:
               | Tons of marketing/advertising. The free GrubHub+
               | subscription through prime probably burned through a lot
               | of cash. I doubt Amazon was paying them very much (if
               | anything) to Grubhub. Then you have all of the corporate
               | staff (around 3k based on google search) who are highly
               | paid.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | And the competition from UberEats and Doordash, who also
               | are constantly promoting discounts, free orders, etc. so
               | there's almost no way they can recoup actual costs let
               | alone turn a profit.
        
           | deprecative wrote:
           | Where it always goes, to the top.
        
           | fakedang wrote:
           | FAANG salaries and freebies.
        
             | jonny_eh wrote:
             | FAANG wasn't involved at any point
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | > _Where did all the money go?_
           | 
           | all of it, including its future, was valued at $7 billion,
           | but there was never $7 billion in cash. Maybe it was $700
           | million in cash paid for 10% of it, which would value the
           | whole thing at $7 billion. If that totally-made-up 10% number
           | happens to be the right number, then it hasn't lost much at
           | all overall, but the investor who paid that has to share the
           | sale price with a bunch of other shareholders who paid less.
           | So, this owner lost money, but the firm did not necessarily.
           | 
           | (I'm not saying this is what happened, and maybe a quick
           | google would get us closer to the actual numbers, I'm just
           | saying you have to pay attention to the wording of what is
           | being claimed; media likes to exaggerate.)
           | 
           | what has disappeared is "belief in the future prospects of
           | this company to bring in profits worth $7B" which was why the
           | last investors invested, and why the early investors set up
           | the kitchens and other frameworks to support those hopes. And
           | it's not that the opportunity wasn't a good one, perhaps a
           | competitor "won", or perhaps there are too many competitors
           | trying to share the $7B pie.
        
         | mikequinlan wrote:
         | They are actually paying $150 mln in cash and taking on $500
         | mln in debt.
        
           | xeromal wrote:
           | multi level narketing
        
       | snarf21 wrote:
       | At first blush, this might seem like another silly roll-up.
       | However, I believe in Marc Lore completely and it will be
       | interesting to see what this becomes. This is bad news for
       | DoorDash (imo).
        
         | Centigonal wrote:
         | I could see a world where Doordash, Toast, etc specialize in
         | delivery from existing restaurants, while Wonder/GrubHub lean
         | into an exclusive selection of food from ghost kitchens.
        
         | deprecative wrote:
         | To be fair, DoorDash is bad news for DoorDash because a $8 meal
         | costs $30.
        
           | dools wrote:
           | Ahhh a slice line
        
           | JasserInicide wrote:
           | I mean, they're all like that, adding on 40% to the actual
           | meal total.
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | Discussion (26 points, 3 hours ago, 63 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42127304
        
       | crmd wrote:
       | Support your local restaurants. Don't let these vampire platform
       | companies enshitify your city's food scene.
        
         | deprecative wrote:
         | We say shopping at Whole Foods, Walmart, and Kroger.
        
           | tomtheelder wrote:
           | Local grocery stores have basically been extinct for decades-
           | and realistically that isn't that surprising given they
           | mostly sell commodity products. We don't need to let
           | restaurants suffer the same fate.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | Agreed. I'm super lucky in that we have a local independent
             | grocery in our neighborhood. Prices are definitely a little
             | higher than the big grocery chains, but the convenience of
             | walking 2.5 blocks is hard to beat when I need something
             | immediately (which turns out is fairly often).
        
             | deprecative wrote:
             | Restaurants are by definition food commodification.
        
           | pie420 wrote:
           | no, we don't. if we're not mindless little drones we stopped
           | shopping there a long time ago, don't lump us in with
           | yourself
        
             | deprecative wrote:
             | Someone's defensive about a statement of the American
             | populace.
        
           | pkilgore wrote:
           | What point are you trying to make? Seems like a failure of
           | government to enforce monopolization laws than individual
           | consumers.
        
             | deprecative wrote:
             | Consumers are voters.
        
         | fragmede wrote:
         | Which is an empty platitude if restaurants won't meet customers
         | where they are - on their smartphones. I'll use my local
         | restaurants' app/webpage when there is one and get pick-up, but
         | if there isn't one, I'll be real - I just use Doordash. When
         | I've got people over and need to order food, it'll take 45 mins
         | between everything else going on to figure out a restaurant,
         | and then another hour to pick some food. And then someone
         | changes their mind while on the phone with the restaurant.
         | Orrrr (after we pick a restaurant) we just pass the phone
         | around.
        
           | talldayo wrote:
           | Ah, but there's the catch. Resturants _aren 't_ meeting you
           | there, Grubhub workers are. Resturaunts largely just optimize
           | for takeout, and whether or not your food arrives warm is
           | less of their problem and more of the Grubhub worker's issue.
           | And as delivery drivers quit over low pay and their
           | businesses go bankrupt, I really see no way for restaurants
           | to support this behavior.
           | 
           | Additionally, you have to look at it from a pragmatic
           | perspective. When I visit the East and West coast of the US,
           | meal delivery is popular enough that you might think it's a
           | booming business. Everywhere else it's pretty much dead
           | though. In places where the cost of living isn't enough to
           | compensate for a restaurant and their middleman (read: most
           | of the US), you can't even find a driver most hours of the
           | day. It's one of those nonsense businesses like Uber that
           | _seems_ like a great idea on paper but one that falls apart
           | outside the Bay Area economy. Most places in America are not
           | gentrified enough to pay peons gas money in exchange for
           | hand-delivered McDonalds.
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | edited to be clear this is for pickup. a number of local
             | restaurants meet me there.
        
           | pie420 wrote:
           | get off the digital heroin and start living real life again.
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
             | nilamo wrote:
             | The whole comment was about how hard it is to wrangle 10+
             | people. How is that digital, or not real life? It's
             | literally a group of people spending time together face to
             | face.
        
           | bena wrote:
           | This really seems like exaggeration. Two hours? How many
           | people are we talking about here?
           | 
           | Also, nothing you've mentioned really solves your issues.
           | Even with DoorDash, you'll need to pick a restaurant. And
           | DoorDash doesn't solve the problem of someone changing their
           | mind as they are ordering.
           | 
           | And then you still have to wait for the food to be prepared
           | and delivered. And there's no guarantee on when it will
           | arrive. So it winds up being a wash.
           | 
           | Also, there's a reason places that don't do delivery don't do
           | it. The cost doesn't justify it. Then there's the whole "meet
           | me where I am" attitude. They're the ones with the service
           | you want. You have some obligation to meet them yourself.
           | 
           | And if you don't want to, that's fine. We used to manage all
           | of this well enough before
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | Or just order from local restaurants using GrubHub. Most mark
         | up their menu prices to absorb the hit they take from working
         | with GrubHub and similar services. Some will encourage you to
         | order directly or through a different 3rd party by including a
         | flier with the delivery order. But many others only offer
         | delivery through 3rd parties like GrubHub.
        
           | zemo wrote:
           | I just call them, it's not like the phone company takes a cut
           | when you order on the phone.
        
             | standardUser wrote:
             | That's good for you. I prefer putting together my order
             | with the menu on my phone, adding notes and having a moment
             | to think about those notes, adding delivery instructions,
             | tipping with the same credit card I pay with, tracking my
             | order, having an order history I can view, and not
             | bothering people who are busy running a restaurant and
             | don't need to be talking to me on the phone since this has
             | all been automated for a couple decades. And to be frank,
             | many restaurant workers don't have the best English skills
             | and may be in a loud environment, making phone calls more
             | difficult.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe] Some more discussion:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42127304
        
         | hoppyhoppy2 wrote:
         | [dupe "dupe" comment]
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42129024
        
           | ChrisArchitect wrote:
           | Does that say dupe? Just flagging it properly
        
       | recursive wrote:
       | Apparently Wonder is unrelated to Wonder Bread.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | Also unrelated to Stevie Wonder.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Apparently Wonder is unrelated to Wonder Bread_
         | 
         | The deal was paid for with Wonder's bread.
        
       | sib wrote:
       | I wonder (no pun intended) how much of this is driven by Marc's
       | residual dislike of Amazon?
       | 
       | Amazon currently has a partnership with Grubhub to provide
       | Grubhub delivery as a Prime benefit.
       | 
       | Amazon competed strongly (some might say unfairly) many years ago
       | with Marc's first big startup, Diapers.com, and effectively
       | forced him to sell to Amazon.
       | 
       | He later started Jet.com and sold it to Walmart - in many ways as
       | a second chance to compete with Amazon.
        
       | ahstilde wrote:
       | marc lore is underrated
        
       | longtimelistnr wrote:
       | Ghost kitchens are the biggest scam in the food delivery world.
       | why would anyone pay for an unsanitary kitchen to fry them up
       | some frozen food?
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | Who says they're unsanitary? Are they not subject to the same
         | kinds of health inspections that regular restaurants have to go
         | through?
        
           | Jenk wrote:
           | In the UK and EU they certainly are.
        
           | longtimelistnr wrote:
           | In they U.S. they are often converted shipping containers or
           | poorly regulated rental kitchens
        
         | KeplerBoy wrote:
         | a lot of fast food is frozen at some point. That's just how
         | that industry works.
        
         | thfuran wrote:
         | Many normal restaurants do a lot of heating up pre-prepared
         | food as well.
        
           | longtimelistnr wrote:
           | The point still stands, at least you get table service and
           | hot food if you go into the restaurant
        
           | jancsika wrote:
           | 1990s app buzz: discover and distribute music 100,000% more
           | efficiently than brick and mortar!
           | 
           | 2020s app buzz: eat food _at least_ as expensive as brick-
           | and-mortar that is _no worse_ in quality!
        
             | pfdietz wrote:
             | > no worse in quality!
             | 
             | Evidence needed.
        
         | grubbs wrote:
         | My buddy ordered from a spot called "Mega Quesadilla" and was
         | raving about it. Turns out the ghost kitchen was just an IHOP
         | making quesadillas.
        
           | henryfjordan wrote:
           | Most of the legacy chain restaurants do this. Outback
           | Steakhouse has a chicken tender ghost kitchen, Denny's has a
           | grilled cheese / melt brand, etc
        
         | knowitnone wrote:
         | Americans are happy to pay for any food that goes directly in
         | to mouths. They'd pay more if pre-chewed.
        
       | geor9e wrote:
       | This part feels like The Onion. 30 private taxis coordinating for
       | your meal. "customers can order from upwards of 30 restaurants in
       | a single order, with each item being made-to-order in a sequenced
       | fashion so that they finish simultaneously and can be delivered
       | to the customer together."
        
         | widgeyboy wrote:
         | Agree, I don't think that's going to work in practice.
        
         | khy wrote:
         | A Wonder just opened near my house, and the "different
         | restaurants" seem to really be just different sections of a
         | large menu with distinct branding. I.e., there is a single
         | physical kitchen that makes food from the different
         | "restaurants".
        
           | gkoberger wrote:
           | Yeah, it's a cloud kitchen with a eating area.
           | 
           | I don't think anyone thinks this is "innovation"... it's just
           | a slightly different take on Uber Eats / Spoonrocket / food
           | courts / cloud kitchens / etc.
           | 
           | And if there is an "innovation", it's the vertical
           | integration... it's a business "innovation," not a tech one.
        
           | pfdietz wrote:
           | There are a bunch of "restaurants" in our town that are just
           | different menus serviced at the same ghost/cloud/dark
           | kitchen. The quality is generally not good. I wonder about
           | the quality at Wonder -- the broader the menu, the harder it
           | is for the preparers to get good at it.
        
             | bunderbunder wrote:
             | I'm thinking here of an Indian place near my office that
             | graduated from ghost kitchen to food hall restaurant. I had
             | their food both before and after, and the difference was
             | night and day. I actually didn't want to try the food hall
             | version, based on my experience with their ghost kitchen
             | incarnation. But a friend convinced me to give them another
             | chance, and now they're one of my favorite places for when
             | I want to splurge on lunch.
             | 
             | I don't really know what the difference is, but I'm
             | guessing it's that they didn't get to have a kitchen setup
             | that was well adapted to their menu at the ghost kitchen.
        
               | mapt wrote:
               | You can change the name, the brand, of a ghost kitchen
               | startup 'restaurant' overnight if you think it's stale
               | due to bad consumer experiences. So you need to care less
               | about those.
        
         | nonameiguess wrote:
         | Upon seeing this, I first thought "a bread company is buying
         | Grubhub?" Then I clicked the article and realized no, this is a
         | different company I've never heard of, apparently because
         | they're only located in five US states all in the northeast
         | nowhere near where I live.
         | 
         | As others have said, they appear to have physical locations and
         | you can even go eat in person there, and they don't pick up
         | food from 30 different restaurants to deliver to you. They seem
         | to just get licenses to use the names and recipes of celebrity
         | chefs or other restaurants. That raises the question of what
         | the point of a restaurant even is. Seemingly, there has to be
         | some quality gain from using a particular kitchen and
         | particular staff, a particular source of ingredients, whatever
         | it is. There has to be a reason some enterprising
         | businessperson can't just hire random cooks, buy recipes from
         | celebrity chefs, and recreate the experience and quality of a
         | meal at 30 different top rated restaurants in a single kitchen.
         | 
         | That seems just as impossible as delivering from 30 different
         | places at the same time.
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | Microsoft cafeterias manage it by just contracting out most
           | of the stations to local restaurants. They provide the
           | trained staff and get a consistent revenue stream in return.
           | They've even got a local celebrity chef branded restaurant in
           | the executive building (34) with a 3 course fixed price menu.
           | It's not a single kitchen per se, but the equivalent is
           | commercial kitchens that are all over the place with multiple
           | clients sharing the space simultaneously. This just adds
           | online ordering and centralized management.
        
           | jfengel wrote:
           | Because an enterprising businessperson has no idea how to run
           | a kitchen.
           | 
           | Recipes are in many ways the least important part of what a
           | chef provides. They're not secrets. If there's a "secret
           | ingredient" it's that they're using more butter and salt than
           | you'd use at home.
           | 
           | What a chef provides is a process. They get the ingredients
           | ordered, at the quality level they want for a price they're
           | willing to pay. They ensure that the ingredients show up, in
           | the amounts needed, without waste and without falling short
           | -- and have backup plans. They staff the kitchen, and ensure
           | that they have all prepared their stations before service
           | begins. They train the expediter to ensure that all of the
           | food comes out together, without things waiting under the
           | warmer.
           | 
           | The chef also provides a menu, which is more important than
           | the recipes. It has something for every guest, and every item
           | can be finished before the guest gets impatient.
           | 
           | It's not impossible for a business guy to hire a top-notch
           | executive chef to do that work, but the business guy cannot
           | do it. It requires years in the kitchen to know what factors
           | are important. It requires a deep understanding of the
           | culture of kitchen workers, and how to get the best out of
           | them. It would require an enormous staff to do that properly,
           | and training them extremely well.
           | 
           | You can see this at work at a place like The Cheesecake
           | Factory. It's hardly great food, but it's reliably good. The
           | menu is enormous, on par with a dozen restaurants at once. It
           | can be done. You're just not going to do it Silicon Valley
           | style, learning as you go.
        
             | organsnyder wrote:
             | I have enough trouble getting food on the table at the
             | right time when I'm making a relatively simple meal for my
             | family. Reading this description (which seems spot-on to
             | me, though I don't have experience working in foodservice)
             | is making me anxious just imagining it.
        
               | jfengel wrote:
               | It is definitely nerve-wracking. But when things are
               | going well, there's a kind of zen to it. They have the
               | advantage of doing the same thing every day. They know
               | the plan, and they stick to it.
               | 
               | Until something goes wrong with the plan -- somebody
               | calls out sick, the refrigerator fails, an order gets
               | messed up and has to be re-cooked -- and the rhythm gets
               | disrupted. The dining room is full so new orders are
               | getting backlogged, and more mistakes get made because
               | you're off your game...
               | 
               | It's not for the faint of heart. It doesn't have to be as
               | unpleasant as some TV shows make it out to be. But it's a
               | whole different kettle of fish from cooking at home.
        
         | 015a wrote:
         | Its a ghost kitchen. It isn't 30 restaurants, its one
         | restaurant with 30 brands.
         | 
         | This idea was tried years ago (they'd claim to be the first) by
         | a company based out of Indianapolis named Clustertruck
         | (https://www.clustertruck.com/); though their branding was more
         | "one restaurant, 30 food truck brands". The aim was: you can
         | order a bunch of stuff, the software in the kitchens times it
         | to all come out at the same time, and ETAs the driver to pick
         | it up for delivery.
         | 
         | The company is still around but isn't all that successful. They
         | split the software portion into a second company, closed down a
         | bunch of kitchens, raised prices, etc. I think the reality that
         | hit them was: It really doesn't matter all that much that you
         | can order tacos and pasta all in one order, except for large
         | parties but that's an uncommon situation. The genre of food
         | matters less than the specific food being ordered (e.g. I don't
         | just want a burger, i want a five guys burger). Additionally,
         | the food might have usually been delivered at a higher quality
         | than a typical Uber Eats/etc delivery, but that's still a
         | distance away from restaurant quality; but the prices were
         | obviously higher than eating at a restaurant.
         | 
         | Uber Eats/etc are _barely_ successful, and the only reason they
         | can find that success is because they don 't have to manage all
         | the typically lossy parts of food delivery (restaurants & the
         | drivers). Gig apps are good businesses because they avoid this
         | vertical integration: No depreciating assets, little real
         | estate, low competition, no worry about managing minimum wage
         | workers, no health inspections, no stoves breaking down, just
         | some software engineers and marketing (I'm simplifying but you
         | get my gist). Why anyone would think vertically integrating
         | something involving a restaurant is a good idea is, well,
         | crazy. Even ghost kitchens on the typical range of delivery
         | apps are stupid; oh sure your startup is one of the most
         | classically unprofitable kinds of businesses on the planet, I
         | bet that'll survive when interest rates rise.
        
           | calmoo wrote:
           | Uber Eats in the USA, yes, it's more hands off in terms of
           | gig workers. In the UK and Germany and many other countries
           | though, there have been many court rulings to essentially ban
           | gig-working and enforce employee protections.
        
       | nemo44x wrote:
       | Grubhub has fallen so far it's amazing. They (and Seamless who is
       | the same thing in different regions) had such a big start but had
       | their model disrupted. And while they were being disrupted they
       | were trying to turn a profit as a public company and DoorDash
       | just ate their market as they were in growth mode. Interesting
       | sequence of events that led to them being acquired by Wonder.
        
       | afavour wrote:
       | Silly money, behaving stupidly.
       | 
       | I feel for the restaurant owners: not only were they forced into
       | accepting the likes of Grubhub as a middle man, that same
       | middleman now also owns restaurants that compete directly with
       | them. If the restaurants have any power at all they should stop
       | using Grubhub right now. I don't know anyone still using it
       | (which is crazy, Seamless used to dominate NYC).
       | 
       | I sincerely hope the entire thing burns to the ground. The last
       | thing I need in my life is for all the restaurants in my
       | neighbourhood to be soulless, VC operated chains.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | Delivery should be done as a coop between local businesses.
         | Always should have been that way.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | Restaurant business is so risky anyhow, managing a co-op too
           | sounds like a big extra load to take on.
        
           | bunderbunder wrote:
           | Sometimes I miss when delivery meant either Chinese or pizza,
           | and the businesses were specialized in that kind of work.
           | Which meant it didn't cost an arm and a leg, and the whole
           | system was vertically integrated in a way that gave your food
           | a fighting chance of still being hot by the time it arrived.
           | 
           | Also the restaurants got a chance to teach their delivery
           | staff how to properly handle the food. Which meant that the
           | Chinese restaurants, for example, could get away with using
           | oyster pails instead of having to resort to the "maximum
           | packaging waste" option.
        
         | timnetworks wrote:
         | I refuse to use GrubHub and not only because it makes a $12
         | sandwich into a $22 sandwich, but also because small business
         | needs cash. If you're tipping $2.37 on your credit card, kick
         | bricks.
        
           | ihuman wrote:
           | I thought the tips go to the delivery person, not the
           | restaurant?
        
         | madamelic wrote:
         | I stopped using Seamless when the corner sandwich shop went
         | from $15 on an $8 sandwich to $25.
         | 
         | It made my blood boil when the receipt had 3 different fees
         | before we even got to the tip.
        
       | objektif wrote:
       | Wonder guy is a trader and I think this is a good trade. The
       | question is who is he going to dump this whole thing to next?
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | Yet another company propped up by private equity. Wonder Group
       | raised $700M during a funding round in March 2024, with a total
       | of $1.5B raised overall [1]
       | 
       | How long until it succumbs to the same fate as other PE funded
       | companies (Foxtrot)? Then the people left holding the bag are the
       | vendors that won't get paid. Employees don't get paid. Doors
       | locked up one day with no reason.
       | 
       | Love how it has all of these celebrity endorsements as well to
       | keep the facade going.
       | 
       | At the end of the day, it's a glorified ghost kitchen.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.inc.com/rebecca-deczynski/wonder-marc-lores-
       | fast...
        
       | andrewla wrote:
       | What the heck is going on here? This feels very ZIRP-ey; private
       | equity chasing disruption in the hopes of the next acquisition.
       | 
       | Is this just a race to the bottom as all these delivery companies
       | burn cash to subsidize their failing model and hope that they can
       | be the last one standing?
        
       | yawnxyz wrote:
       | whoa, they own Chai Pani and Fred's Meat and Bread, both of which
       | are _excellent_ fast casual spots in Atlanta. It's just... it's
       | like $28 for a Philly cheesesteak, so I've only been to each
       | twice. edit: ok it's $16 each apparently, but still
       | 
       | But also, they own physical chains, real estate ("food halls" aka
       | bougie food courts) and now... meal delivery? It sounds like the
       | most expensive-to-operate things all squashed into one.
       | 
       | edit: and they own Blue Apron?! I feel like they're going to buy
       | Candy Crush next
       | 
       | It's really hard to see how this is going to work out long-term.
        
         | bastardoperator wrote:
         | Acquisition of Farming Simulator incoming...
        
       | pbamotra wrote:
       | Wonder owns Blue Apron too.
        
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