[HN Gopher] Show HN: Proxmox VE Helper Scripts: Make managing yo...
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       Show HN: Proxmox VE Helper Scripts: Make managing your Proxmox
       homelab a breeze
        
       Author : BramSuurdje
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2024-11-12 18:37 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (community-scripts.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (community-scripts.github.io)
        
       | prettyStandard wrote:
       | A bit of a tangent. I've been trying to manage libvirt& Unraid
       | through terraform, but have run into issue after issue. I'm about
       | given up, and will just manage the virtual machines manually...
       | 
       | What's the virtualization technology on proxmox?
       | 
       | What's the advantage to using something like this as opposed to
       | terraform or salt stack or Ansible?
        
         | beardbound wrote:
         | proxmox is using KVM for virtualization and Linux Containers
         | (LXC) for the containers. I agree that something like terraform
         | and/or ansible would make more sense for an IAC (infrastructure
         | as code) deployment. Most of the people I talk to that use
         | proxmox for a homelab prefer to do things manually and don't
         | bother with any IAC implementation.
         | 
         | For work I'm a firm believer in reproducible environments and
         | IAC. We actually a combination of vagrant, libvirt, and KVM to
         | spin up local clusters for quick testing and development. It
         | works out pretty well, but in my homelab I don't have anything
         | complicated enough to bother setting up terraform/ansible for.
         | Although I imagine if my server crashed I probably wouldn't
         | think that way anymore.
        
         | daqnz wrote:
         | It is also worth mentioning that Proxmox uses ZFS making
         | snapshotting quick and Proxmox also has a very good backup
         | system.
         | 
         | If you want to treat your self-hosted applications as "sheep"
         | (1) , then terraform k8s etc. is a better bet.
         | 
         | But if you are happy to manually restore from a backup or
         | snapshot when something goes wrong, or automatically have your
         | LXC container shifted to different hardware if you have a
         | cluster, then Proxmox is for you. The reality is that in a home
         | setup you will spend about as much or less time maintaining
         | your "pets" than than you would your "farm".
         | 
         | (1) I write this from New Zealand
        
       | BLKNSLVR wrote:
       | I'll definitely look into the docker LXC and Home Assistant VM.
       | I'd been using docker in a VM on proxmox, successfully mind you,
       | but perhaps there's some more efficiency to squeeze...
        
         | paranoidrobot wrote:
         | HAOS as a VM on proxmox works well.
         | 
         | I used some of tteck's helper scripts to set up mqtt and
         | zigbee2mqtt LXC containers with a passthrough of the USB zigbee
         | device.
        
         | daqnz wrote:
         | The scripts for both these projects work very well. I would
         | recommend Home Assistant HAOS in a VM over a LXC or docker.
        
       | bigmattystyles wrote:
       | Related https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42016605
        
       | WaxProlix wrote:
       | I decided to run proxmox on my homelab rather than having a k8s
       | setup, and I've come to sort of regret it. LXCs are awesome, but
       | being bound to just them or qemu VMs doesn't fit all of my needs.
       | With Kubernetes I could just add support for lightweight VMs
       | (Firecracker hypervisor, or unikernels or something) with a
       | project like Kata. Proxmox is just not extensible.
       | 
       | It's also just not amenable to automation or reproducible builds
       | in the same way as an established pod manager like Kubernetes:
       | there's no support that I can find for Terraform, and so you're
       | stuck with regular full-disk backups and maybe some
       | Chef/Ansible/Puppet tooling, which I don't want to invest in
       | [re]learning.
       | 
       | Still, very cool resource management and passthrough model, and
       | it's easy to set up and maintain, with a nice control panel.
        
         | tombert wrote:
         | I've pretty thoroughly drunk the NixOS Kool-aid.
         | 
         | For awhile I ran Docker Swarm with a bunch of SBCs, then k8s,
         | then just a big server running Ubuntu + Cockpit, then Proxmox,
         | until I have finally settled on NixOS.
         | 
         | NixOS has decent container support if necessary, but I've found
         | that its declarative nature means I almost never bother with
         | containers. "Uninstalling" something is generally as simple as
         | "remove it from the config file, rebuild", and it's not hard to
         | do cgroupey stuff if you need to manage memory and the like.
         | 
         | Not to mention that I think NixOS's nginx DSL is wonderful.
         | It's so nice being able to have my proxy configs (along with
         | LetsEncrypt) managed directly (and correctly) by the config
         | environment instead of me writing my own scripts and the like.
         | 
         | (I'm not sure if there are any distributed NixOS things,
         | because I could totally see something neat being built on
         | Flakes)
         | 
         | My homelab has never been simpler and I've never been happier
         | with it.
        
           | daqnz wrote:
           | Any reason you didn't go NixOS in a Proxmox VM? The advantage
           | would not be having to do a full reinstall if anything went
           | wrong and being able to spin up other OS' if needed. The
           | downside would be a few percentage of performance loss.
        
         | KAMSPioneer wrote:
         | It's certainly a different model of deployment. I like it,
         | though it does have its warts.
         | 
         | However there is a (community) TF module...?
         | https://registry.terraform.io/providers/Telmate/proxmox/late...
         | (I have no experience with it as I typically reach for
         | Ansible).
         | 
         | Also, easy-to-install ZFS makes it hard for me to cajol myself
         | into trying something else. And if I want k8s for play time I
         | can always spin up (a/some) VM(s).
        
         | tupilaq wrote:
         | I've used this[1] Terraform provider together with the Talos[2]
         | distribution for deploying a Kubernetes cluster. I agree that
         | the APIs available with Proxmox are not fully featured, but it
         | more than suits my needs.
         | 
         | I'm running a four node cluster on salvaged SFF machines
         | backing up lvm snapshots to home brewed TruNAS storage and it
         | all makes me happy.
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/Telmate/terraform-provider-proxmox
         | 
         | [2] https://factory.talos.dev/
        
           | frantathefranta wrote:
           | You probably know this but it's good to run a cluster with an
           | odd number of nodes. You don't even need another full node,
           | just a quorum node like a RPi.
        
             | tupilaq wrote:
             | Yes, of course.. I'm actually in the process of replacing
             | nodes. The original 3x Ryzen5 4-core 32Gb hosts are being
             | replaced by Ryzen9 12-core 96Gb hosts.. its just taking a
             | bit of time. As long as I only ever take one down for
             | updates at a time, its no bother for a home-lab
             | environment.
        
         | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
         | Have you tried incus?
         | 
         | https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/
        
           | doubled112 wrote:
           | I moved my Proxmox single node home-prod setup to Incus over
           | the last couple of weeks.
           | 
           | Incus feels a lot less...legacy? Old school? Something.
           | 
           | Not a lot different when it gets down to it though. It's
           | easier to work at the CLI with Incus. Backups are a little
           | less straight forward.
        
             | unixhero wrote:
             | Proxmox isn't legacy, far from it.
        
         | j45 wrote:
         | Different technologies are for different approaches and
         | applications.
         | 
         | It's relatively trivial to use the pve command line utility to
         | create or modify vms in proxmox.
         | 
         | Still, the originating reason of this post is due to a large
         | number of useful scripts to help make things more manageable
         | and maintainable, and the founder of it having to step away,
         | and there being gratitude for their help to make things much
         | more manageable.
        
           | WaxProlix wrote:
           | I hadn't intended to take away from that. And I've used these
           | scripts myself for spinning up resources - they're definitely
           | a help.
        
           | daqnz wrote:
           | > Still, the originating reason of this post is due to a
           | large number of useful scripts to help make things more
           | manageable and maintainable
           | 
           | Also makes it very quick to try out an application, arguably
           | less time than even docker.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | But you can just chuck Kubernetes nodes on Proxmox? I have my
         | nodes running on XCP-ng. The beauty of running a hypervisor is
         | maximum flexibility. I can try out different distros etc,
         | either for k8s nodes or otherwise. I run my router on there
         | (opnsense). I can play with stuff like nix and guix and could
         | even install Windows if for some reason I wanted to.
        
         | placardloop wrote:
         | Proxmox doesn't preclude you from having k8s. You can create
         | VM(s) in Proxmox and then install k8s on them, then run your
         | app workloads in k8s.
         | 
         | You do have to treat Proxmox VMs like "pets, not cattle" since
         | they are more difficult to automate, but that's the same story
         | as if you were managing your k8s host on bare metal too. The
         | benefit with Proxmox-hosted VMs though is that you can use
         | Proxmox for whole-VM backups and migrations, so you can have
         | the best of both proxmox and k8s!
        
       | daqnz wrote:
       | Along with the submitter, I am also on the team of maintainers
       | who volunteered to help with maintenance of this project after
       | tteck's sad news that they were entering hospice (1). The team
       | members are all motivated individuals, who are enthusiastic on
       | carrying on tteck's legacy.
       | 
       | We are moving forward in a transparent manner and I am more than
       | happy to answer any questions.
       | 
       | (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42016605
        
         | lotophage wrote:
         | Oh wow, this is truely sad news.
         | 
         | I only recently went down the homelab/selfhosted path and the
         | majority of my containers were setup using tteck's scripts.
        
           | daqnz wrote:
           | > Oh wow, this is truely sad news.
           | 
           | Incredibly sad. It's a real testament to tteck that he took
           | the time to transition the project, and make his wishes known
           | how he wanted us to proceed. Tteck is a legend.
        
       | sgc wrote:
       | I have been looking into setting up my first Proxmox box, here is
       | my take as a newcomer.
       | 
       | I wanted to do what I think is a very basic and very common
       | setup: Modem > proxmox box > OPNsense VM > physical wifi router
       | via onboard 10Gb NIC + internal network VMs like OMV etc. The
       | goal is to add a full network filter via OPNsense, and allow
       | access to a media sever and backup etc from the internal network.
       | 
       | I see no OPNsense, OMV script is basically contra-indicated
       | because it should be a VM instead of the LXC container, and I
       | don't see any glue scripts to get VMs talking to each other,
       | which is an important part of Proxmox configuration. So it looks
       | like there is room here to get some basic setup scripts for a
       | simple home server either improved or added to the collection.
        
         | TheSmiddy wrote:
         | > I don't see any glue scripts to get VMs talking to each other
         | 
         | I'm confused by what you mean here? Don't they just use the
         | network like any other computer?
         | 
         | I haven't had to do any special configuration to get my VMs to
         | talk to each other.
        
         | daqnz wrote:
         | There is no OPNSense script I think historically in part
         | because any misconfig could expose the Promox instance to the
         | world. It is easy enough for advanced users to spin up a VM
         | with the ISO. There has been a request for a OPNSense script
         | made recently.
         | 
         | I agree with OMV. It certainly can be used as is, but not
         | usually how people want to use it. A note was added to the
         | script a few days ago.
         | 
         | > I don't see any glue scripts to get VMs talking to each other
         | 
         | There is a Tailscale script which technically helps them talk
         | to each other (over Tailscale) :)
         | 
         | The scripts are designed to setup self contained LCX
         | containers. We are trying to avoid building our own k8s.
        
       | xrd wrote:
       | Am I right that proxmox takes over your entire machine?
       | 
       | I have been using a combination of docker and lxc/lxd to manage
       | my VMs. But, cockpit (on ubuntu) does not give me a perfect
       | experience for managing running VMS, etc.
       | 
       | I wish there was a good solution for all of this. But, it feels
       | like you need to cobble together a bunch of kibana tools to get
       | true monitoring.
        
         | alsetmusic wrote:
         | Yes, installing Proxmox is akin to installing ESXi.
        
         | gchamonlive wrote:
         | I wanted to delegate management of my raid array to higher
         | level tools since it died on me seemingly for nothing (I was
         | able to recover all the drives but none of the files).
         | 
         | I tried TrueNAS but it's very rigid. Proxmox seems to give you
         | more control over what's installed on the server but it's also
         | quite locked down. Don't remember exactly what was it that
         | pushed me off Proxmox. I think it was that I needed to manage
         | some VMs over LXD API and others over proxmox and I couldn't
         | mix and match, I had to choose one without extra hacks.
        
         | unixhero wrote:
         | Monitoring is there in Proxmox
        
       | mateus1 wrote:
       | Heartwarming to see the community response here, long live tteck.
       | 
       | I've just built my first homelab and have favored OpenMediaVault
       | which seems better suited for my use.
        
       | evoke4908 wrote:
       | I doubt you have a whole lot of control over this, but this
       | website is _misery_ to use on a phone. Browsing scripts gives you
       | six or ten tiles per page, navigation buttons are _only_ in the
       | header. There are no page numbers or any indication of progress.
       | At a glance, there appears to be no way of filtering or sorting,
       | although there is some arbitrary grouping being applied in the
       | middle of the list. Also the script descriptions only show three
       | lines of text, which is not nearly enough to give a clue to what
       | the script is for.
       | 
       | This is probably the worst implemented list view I've ever seen.
       | Completely useless.
        
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