[HN Gopher] High Levels of Banned PFAS Detected in Hershey's Pac...
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       High Levels of Banned PFAS Detected in Hershey's Packaging
        
       Author : nicovank
       Score  : 80 points
       Date   : 2024-11-11 21:02 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (grizzlyreports.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (grizzlyreports.com)
        
       | jprete wrote:
       | The first thing I saw on the page was a phone-screen-filling
       | disclaimer that everything they said was opinion. I didn't read
       | any further.
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | It's a news/reporting site, they should all have this. So you
         | are discounting one of the few honest news sites for being
         | honest.
        
           | chiefalchemist wrote:
           | If it's opinion then it's op-ed. That's not news. If they
           | were truly honest they would not say they are a news site.
        
             | tern wrote:
             | They're probably being extra careful to protect themselves
             | from defamation lawsuits. I have _more_ trust in the
             | information reading this, because I can assume they 're
             | willing to say things that put them at risk of being sued
             | by powerful organizations.
        
               | dmoy wrote:
               | Not just defamation lawsuits, but also the SEC
        
               | Maarten88 wrote:
               | It's very worrying that consumer protection against
               | poisoning in the US comes from a for-profit company that
               | makes money by short selling companies they found to have
               | issues and then covering their back this way against
               | lawsuits, which any less aggressive reviewer would face.
        
               | kyleee wrote:
               | On the other hand it's great to have them investigating
               | all these companies and their widespread misdeeds
        
               | Maarten88 wrote:
               | The investigating is great, the problem is who is doing
               | it and for what reason.
               | 
               | If the misdeed is done by a non-public or poor company
               | there is no money to be made so they would never even
               | investigate it. And not accepting a payoff that returns
               | more than the short position would be ignoring fiduciary
               | responsibility, so some investigations could disappear.
        
               | chiefalchemist wrote:
               | You can trust the information. That's a personal choice.
               | But that doesn't make it journalism-driven news - in the
               | textbook definition sense - for everyone else.
               | 
               | As honest goes: "We are an op-ed oriented information
               | sharing site. We do not adhere to normal journalistic
               | standard."
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | 1,200 words of legalese, boiling down to "you can't hold us
           | liable for anything we say here" is not "being honest".
        
           | nohuck13 wrote:
           | It's also an activist short seller. They make money by
           | publishing negative research reports on companies they've
           | shorted. It's a valuable service.
           | 
           | The disclaimer amounts to "we're not insider trading and we
           | really believe this stuff" many different ways. Insider
           | trading is illegal so they are scrupulously careful to stay
           | away from MNPI (and want you to know that). Really believing
           | this stuff is important because if they turn out to be wrong,
           | it's sort of ok to be honestly wrong, it's not okay to be
           | knowingly wrong and put out the report anyway to manipulate
           | the stock.
           | 
           | And so paragraphs and paragraphs of
           | 
           | >"Reports are based on generally available information, field
           | research, inferences and deductions"
           | 
           | We're not insider trading
           | 
           | >"Our opinions are held in good faith, and we have based them
           | upon publicly available facts and evidence"
           | 
           | We really believe this stuff, also we're really not insider
           | trading.
           | 
           | > "We conducted research and analysis based on public
           | information in a manner that any person could have done if
           | they had been interested in doing so."
           | 
           | Did we mention we're not insider trading?
        
             | kyleee wrote:
             | Well perhaps if these companies didn't all have skeletons
             | in their closets, they may be able to avoid the bad press,
             | lawsuits, stock prices issues, etc. That is probably the
             | best way to avoid all this
        
               | nohuck13 wrote:
               | Agree, that's why it's a valuable service to make it hard
               | to have skeletons.
        
             | nova22033 wrote:
             | Hindenburg published a report about Super Micro and their
             | information/analysis turned out to be right.
             | 
             | How is this insider trading? Do they have access to
             | material non-public information?
        
               | nohuck13 wrote:
               | You seem to think I'm arguing that they are insider
               | trading. I'm not arguing that!
        
           | tedunangst wrote:
           | It's not a news site.
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | That's why I flagged it.
        
         | dialup_sounds wrote:
         | You can't even click the button to not agree to their terms
         | because it's not a button.
        
       | fn-mote wrote:
       | They commissioned the testing by independent labs. Scroll past
       | the disclaimer. The results should be surprising & they are bad
       | news.
       | 
       | One interesting remark, although not nearly the most damning item
       | in the article:
       | 
       | > Our expert heading this case believes that HSY deliberately
       | uses uncommon, harder-to-detect PFAS compounds to avoid detection
       | and bans, while the negative health implications of such uncommon
       | substances remain similar.
        
         | AceJohnny2 wrote:
         | that's literally FUD, though: Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt.
         | 
         | Without proof, you can't conclude anything about _intent_.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | If I kick you in the balls repeatedly, you can't _prove_ I
           | wasn 't possessed by a demon and am totally innocent of the
           | act.
           | 
           | In the real world, we're allowed to draw reasonable
           | conclusions.
        
             | gibolt wrote:
             | So, the reasonable interpretation is that people at HSY
             | were possessed by demons? Knowledge like that could
             | streamline the court system
             | 
             | /s, if unclear
        
           | unsnap_biceps wrote:
           | You can be sure Hershey will throw a supplier to the wolves
           | if they can point a finger and be reasonably sure there's no
           | way to trace the decision back to Hershey.
        
             | Suppafly wrote:
             | There is almost certainly no way this is Hershey's fault,
             | they don't make packaging, they just buy it from suppliers.
        
               | nielsbot wrote:
               | 1) Could they have known? 2) Are they required to test?
        
               | kyleee wrote:
               | Unless they are/were aware of the issue and chose to
               | ignore it/cover it up
        
         | Lance_ET_Compte wrote:
         | Their "intent" is to make as much money as possible for their
         | shareholders. Nothing else matters; not today, and not in the
         | future.
        
       | _DeadFred_ wrote:
       | PSA: Check your bike lube. I was shocked to find out mine was
       | basically just PFAS I'm dumping into my garage/the forest trails.
       | I have to think bikers care more than average about nature/where
       | they ride, and apparently we don't care all that much.
        
         | mtreis86 wrote:
         | Try Boeshield instead, it's wax suspended in solvent.
        
           | l1tany11 wrote:
           | There are much newer products than boeshield which have a lot
           | higher wax content, preform a lot better, and don't have the
           | nasty stuff in them like naphtha.
           | 
           | Silca ss drip, ufo drip, flower power wax are all drip on
           | lubes that all test better than boeshield (last longer, less
           | chain wear, etc).
           | 
           | Boeshield is only 2.5% wax.
        
         | teaearlgraycold wrote:
         | Do you know if Rock "N" Roll has PFAS in it? I don't see
         | anything mentioned online.
        
           | giraffe_lady wrote:
           | I looked into it a couple years ago and can't find anything.
           | I believe it does though.
           | 
           | It doesn't have the consistency (or price) of a ceramic and
           | it's not an oil or wax. It's _something_ suspended in a
           | volatile liquid. If you spill some it evaporates quickly and
           | you can inspect the residue which is the actual lubricant. I
           | don 't know what else it would be but PTFE or PFAS.
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | Same with some granite countertop sealer I bought in a spray
         | bottle. Had to dig online for a while before I could figure out
         | what it's made of, which is almost pure PFAS. Crazy considering
         | we prepare foods near it.
        
           | kyleee wrote:
           | Wild, thanks for sharing. Any brands or other details you
           | uncovered? I'd bet that most/all common products for
           | countertop sealing may be implicated?
        
           | amluto wrote:
           | A bunch of the lubricants that are FDA approved for
           | incidental food contact contain PTFE. It's unclear how
           | harmful the teeny tiny particles of PTFE are.
        
         | Centigonal wrote:
         | FWIW: TriFlow contains PTFE, which is an exceptionally inert
         | PFAS. the process of manufacturing it involves some nasty PFAS
         | chemicals which are then dumped into the environment, though.
        
         | Theodores wrote:
         | I appreciate your concern, however, as a cyclist, I have a good
         | idea of how many oils and solvents I use and it is chicken feed
         | compared to what car dependent people use. What next, concern
         | about the dust coming from the brake blocks on my bicycle and
         | the plastic nanoparticles that come from the tyres?
         | 
         | I use WD-40 on occasion and I think the nudge is needed to not
         | breathe that stuff. But again, the aerobic benefits of cycling
         | outweigh the problems of breathing WD-40 needed to lube the
         | cables every winter or so.
         | 
         | But I like the idea of the American driving his two tonne
         | monster vehicle to the trail to then be concerned about a speck
         | of PFAS dropping off the bike onto the trail.
         | 
         | There is bike shedding with the original article too. I don't
         | eat processed foods including candy bars so those wrappers are
         | not something that ever get into my house. However, I see the
         | toxins as the refined sugars, variously saturated fats and
         | other non-food ingredients in this garbage. Worrying about the
         | PFAS chemicals in the wrapper is a bit silly when you regard
         | the whole product as toxic.
         | 
         | A similar bit of bike shedding goes on with 'pesticides'
         | sprayed on crops. People worry about a bit of glycosphate
         | sprayed on their lettuce but overlook the fact that most of
         | what they eat is definitely not healthy. They worry about the
         | 'pesticides' on the lettuce and ignore the burger, 'cheese' and
         | bun, none of which are what the body needs.
        
       | amanaplanacanal wrote:
       | This report has already triggered new class action lawsuits.
        
         | kyleee wrote:
         | But doesn't look to have affected stock price so far
        
       | javiramos wrote:
       | Is there a way to flush my body of PFAS?
        
         | code_biologist wrote:
         | Blood donation. Menstruating women get some level of this for
         | free. Not much otherwise.
         | 
         | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8994130/
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | You pee it out, too, but slowly.
        
           | JasserInicide wrote:
           | Giving blood is also a great way to get rid of heavy metals
           | like mercury.
        
           | singleshot_ wrote:
           | Thousand dollar idea: plasma donation center where they throw
           | the plasma away.
           | 
           | (Ten thousand dollar idea: technology that cleans up the area
           | where they dump the plasma).
        
             | nielsbot wrote:
             | Why not clean the plasma of PFAS and put it back? Like
             | dialysis but for biotoxins. (Actually, would the current
             | dialysis process do this?)
        
           | andrewSC wrote:
           | Wait. Doesn't this mean you're just giving PFAS to the blood
           | recipient?
        
             | bonzini wrote:
             | He/she has probably lost some PFAS recently, if in need of
             | a transfusion.
        
             | blargey wrote:
             | Yes, but their blood/plasma PFA concentration won't change
             | at all unless your blood has extremely high PFA
             | concentrations.
             | 
             | Even if it did, the average blood/plasma recipient is more
             | concerned about "not dying of blood loss" than PFAs.
        
             | ridgeguy wrote:
             | Not necessarily. I visit our local medical vampire every 3
             | months to drain a pint due to high levels of ferritin
             | (hemochromatosis issues). I asked what they do with the
             | blood. They destroy it by ashing it. The tech said they do
             | this with any blood drawn from someone with a known disease
             | state. So if phlebotomy becomes a common treatment for PFAS
             | loads, I'd guess the draws would be destroyed. I hope.
        
           | blargey wrote:
           | That can dilute what's circulating in your bloodstream, but
           | not what's already accumulated in your brain, lungs, liver,
           | kidneys, and probably some other organs that weren't studied
           | yet.
        
             | Suppafly wrote:
             | Does it accumulate in organs, or would it go back into the
             | bloodstream eventually?
        
           | superxpro12 wrote:
           | So those bloodletting docs from the 1700's were really ahead
           | of their time then
        
         | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
         | A, B, or C...
         | 
         | A. Stop production world wide. Start decomposing PFAS in the
         | environment (there are some chemical methods). You'll probably
         | need a new liver. Wait lots of years.
         | 
         | B. Go to space. Don't come back. You'll probably need a new
         | liver. Also wait years.
         | 
         | C. Cremation
         | 
         | This is something we are probably going to be dealing with for
         | 10s of generations...
        
       | Eumenes wrote:
       | I dont think the consumers of cheap candy products care tbh.
       | Hershey and similar tiered chocolate all have emulsifiers like
       | polyglycerol polyricinoleate and lecithin. If something is sold
       | at a gas station, its bad for you.
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | No level of "clean lab report" healthiness would convince me
         | that the mediocre-at-best tastes and feel-kinda-crappy after-
         | effects of cheapo chocolates were worth paying for.
        
         | unsnap_biceps wrote:
         | What's wrong with lecithin? It's naturally occurring in eggs.
        
       | j45 wrote:
       | Maybe the concern about plastic packaging that seemed to deeply
       | resonate with few people, and has some merit to be more broadly
       | considered.
        
       | cryptica wrote:
       | We haven't come so far from the time of the Romans who drank from
       | lead pipes. We're just wrestling with different chemicals and
       | different physical, environmental and social effects.
        
         | nielsbot wrote:
         | In fact we still have lead pipes. Supposedly the water we pipe
         | through them is treated to cause the pipes to be inert.
         | 
         | https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/politics/lead-pipes-joe-biden...
        
       | dccoolgai wrote:
       | Recently, I've found myself trying to avoid any food that touches
       | any plastic mostly for this reason. It's so hard to do - even
       | aluminum drink cans are coated with plastic on the inside,
       | apparently.
        
         | unsnap_biceps wrote:
         | The lining is better for you than the aluminum being directly
         | in contact with the acidic beverage, but I totally understand
         | your concern.
        
       | sevensor wrote:
       | PFAS has made me terribly suspicious of lubricants and
       | waterproofing agents, and things that have been
       | lubricated/waterproofed. "Compostable" paper food containers
       | especially. Can it really be ok to eat bread that doesn't spoil
       | on a paper plate that doesn't soak through?
        
         | unsnap_biceps wrote:
         | I exclusively purchase wax coated paper plates and cups. They
         | generally work just great for picnic stuff, but don't work at
         | all for hot stuff like soups/coffee/hot chocolate.
         | 
         | They're at least twice as expensive, but I think it's worth it.
        
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