[HN Gopher] Mind-Bending Soviet Era Oil Rig City on the Caspian Sea
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       Mind-Bending Soviet Era Oil Rig City on the Caspian Sea
        
       Author : rramadass
       Score  : 218 points
       Date   : 2024-11-06 11:59 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnn.com)
        
       | rramadass wrote:
       | Trailer - https://vimeo.com/ondemand/oilrocks
       | 
       | Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neft_Da%C5%9Flar%C4%B1
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | And a satellite map:
         | https://maps.yandex.com/?ll=50.858333,40.236111&spn=0.1,0.1&...
         | 
         | (Only Yandex seems to have imagery, the other services cut it
         | out as it's too far offshore.)
        
           | spacesanjeet wrote:
           | That is hands down one of the coolest maps I have come
           | across. Thanks a lot for sharing.
        
           | ant6n wrote:
           | You can get walking directions, it's about 9.5km end-to-end
           | along the furthest connected points. Looks like the roads
           | going further out have collapsed.
        
       | ffsoftboiled wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/GCmDC
        
       | Qem wrote:
       | How long real state prices can keep climbing before people are
       | forced to start colonizing seas or lakes like this?
        
         | christophilus wrote:
         | These will never be economical. Waterworld will always be sci-
         | fi, unfortunately.
        
         | zemvpferreira wrote:
         | Cities ocuppy maybe 0.5% of available land, if you're generous.
         | We're not wanting for solid ground.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | Globally no, but locally yes; the Netherlands famously turned
           | a sea inlet into a lake, then reclaimed a province from that
           | lake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevoland.
           | 
           | The tradeoff is between urbanization (think Singapore) vs
           | nature vs agriculture. The Netherands doesn't want or isn't
           | ready for building tall yet, for some reason.
        
             | bastawhiz wrote:
             | The Netherlands undertook that project for flood protection
             | and to increase land for agriculture. You can't exactly do
             | that on oil platforms.
        
             | justsomehnguy wrote:
             | > The Netherands doesn't want or isn't ready for building
             | tall yet, for some reason.
             | 
             | >> Population * 9 November 2024 estimate Neutral increase
             | 18,212,400[7] (69th) * 2011 census 16,655,799[8] * Density
             | 520/km2 (1,346.8/sq mi) (33rd)
             | 
             | Compare with Singapore:
             | 
             | >> Density 7,804/km2 (20,212.3/sq mi) (2nd)
        
           | p_j_w wrote:
           | In a world where transportation is effectively instant you're
           | correct. Here in reality, though, is another story. Living 2
           | hours away from a commercial center is practically useless
           | unless you have one of the increasingly difficult to find
           | fully remote jobs or enough money that you never have to work
           | again.
        
         | jebarker wrote:
         | Wouldn't that be more expensive than just building on
         | undesirable land?
        
           | Sakos wrote:
           | Maintenance for infrastructure and buildings on solid ground
           | is already expensive and difficult. I can't imagine how bad
           | it would be for a sea-based town or city.
        
         | bitcurious wrote:
         | Interesting premise.
         | 
         | Infill is pretty common in cities where real estate is
         | expensive. I'm not sure what the "tipping point" is but large
         | chunks of the city of Boston are built on what was water. The
         | neighborhood "Back Bay" is named quite literally. NYC likewise
         | has large chunks of prime real estate built on artificial land.
         | Manhattan's Battery Park was once water. The motivation here
         | does seem to have been economic.
         | 
         | Singapore also is similarly growing out into the sea, though
         | the motivation there is the lack of land in other directions,
         | not merely price.
         | 
         | The Aztec city of Tenochtitlan was similarly built in the
         | middle of a lake on a foundation of floating grass islands
         | called "chinampas." Here the motivation was martial - the lake
         | served as a moat for their imperial capital.
         | 
         | Venice was built similarly to the Tenochtitlan on mostly a
         | series of man-made islands, though the motivation seems to have
         | been population growth.
         | 
         | The Chinese today are building artificial islands in the South
         | China Sea, the motivation here is martial/legalistic - expand
         | the land territory and power projection to expand their claim
         | to the sea.
        
         | Oarch wrote:
         | Gibraltar is, to a large extent, land reclaimed on water.
        
         | m3047 wrote:
         | Wouldn't that be Alpaugh / Tulare Lake / Central Valley south
         | of Fresno? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulare_Lake and of
         | course the Netherlands...
         | 
         | People may disagree with this but IMO Tulare Lake illustrates
         | that it's not just "real estate" because plenty of real estate
         | is basically worthless. In this case it's land with water which
         | can grow things (same in Netherlands), and they made more of it
         | by continuing to suck more water out of the lake than rainfall
         | replenished.
        
         | cjaybo wrote:
         | I mean, given how much undeveloped area exists inland, probably
         | a very very long time?
        
       | orbital-decay wrote:
       | _> When filmmaker Marc Wolfensberger first found out about Neft
       | Daslari, he thought it was a myth. He kept hearing about this
       | secretive city_
       | 
       | In what way it was secretive or a myth?? There were multiple
       | books and movies about it, it was a major job source and a ton of
       | people worked there.
        
         | instig007 wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Tower#Secrecy
        
         | pimlottc wrote:
         | It says he learned about it in the 90s, information about
         | distant parts of the world was much harder to come by back
         | then, particular regarding Soviet countries (at least for
         | Westerners)
        
       | timonoko wrote:
       | What was the Soviet film about hero Komissar riding around on a
       | motocycle on those bridges and fixing all kinds of problems?
        
         | kranke155 wrote:
         | Oh I'd love to know. Sounds cool
        
         | timonoko wrote:
         | Plenty of films about Oilfields of Baku.
         | 
         | https://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/53_folder/53_...
         | 
         | Because it was in glorius SovColor and because the hero had
         | greasy ElvisPresley-pompadour, I would say it was shot in
         | between 1960-1970.
        
           | 082349872349872 wrote:
           | The 1966 "26 commissars" is b/w, so maybe later than that?
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8riDkh3hJHY
           | 
           | There's a painting in colour, however: https://en.wikipedia.o
           | rg/wiki/26_Baku_Commissars#/media/File...
           | 
           | Lagniappe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan_Democrati
           | c_Republic...
           | 
           | EDIT: wrong geography, but apparently the "technical" long
           | predates the Toyota Hilux:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9fbO9NX1no#t=3553s
        
       | 1oooqooq wrote:
       | most people ignore wwii was decided on baku.
       | 
       | it was the reason for Barbarossa, the first Germany defeat, and
       | it was the only way Germany could replenish the oil used on the
       | Russian offensive, which forced them to squeeze the polish camps
       | dry. they lost it one baku.
       | 
       | it was also where most modern billionaires made their fortune.
        
         | Arainach wrote:
         | >was also where most modern billionaires made their fortune
         | 
         | Could you explain this claim?
        
           | palmfacehn wrote:
           | The Baku oil fields were capitalized by the Rothschild
           | banking dynasty, which was already immensely wealthy before
           | the oil age. Perhaps others will weigh in, but as I recall
           | this was in response to the fabulous wealth Rockefeller was
           | realizing in the United States. Petroleum had always been
           | present around Baku and elsewhere, but it hadn't been
           | exploited on the same industrial scale. It was sometimes
           | regarded as an inconvenience which devalued land.
        
             | kjellsbells wrote:
             | Exactly so. A really good, very readable book on this and
             | oil in general is Daniel Yergin's The Prize.
        
               | mistrial9 wrote:
               | yes agree that is an enjoyable and informative read..
        
             | Arainach wrote:
             | Sure - I don't doubt that Baku made some people fabulously
             | rich, I'm more curious about "most modern billionaires",
             | specifically "most". I'm not even convinced that most
             | modern billionaires made their billions through petroleum,
             | much less Baku.
        
               | palmfacehn wrote:
               | Not sure what that poster meant by that.
               | 
               | In this case, the Rothschilds were already a powerful
               | European banking dynasty. There are many shadowy
               | speculations about the different branches of this family.
               | Perhaps this is where the confusion originates.
               | 
               | The Nobel family did better relative to their previous
               | station. In the end the Baku concerns were sold to
               | Rockefeller before being nationalized after the Russian
               | Revolution.
        
               | 1oooqooq wrote:
               | i think you're making the common meaning mistake between
               | modern and current times when in a history discussion
               | context.
        
             | 1oooqooq wrote:
             | thats and the Nobels are the more public ones. there's also
             | billionaires from the astrian dynasties all over baku.
             | 
             | also stalin journalism career took off there.
        
           | kaonwarb wrote:
           | I suspect the intended context is most _Russian_
           | billionaires.
        
           | Aspos wrote:
           | Nobel (the Nobel prize guy) made his fortune in Baku, IMSMR
        
             | anonymousDan wrote:
             | I thought he made his fortune from TNT and then founded the
             | Nobel prize out of guilt?
        
               | Aspos wrote:
               | I believe that's where he invented it
        
         | frenchy wrote:
         | > the first Germany defeat
         | 
         | Assuming you're talking about stategic defeats, I'm pretty sure
         | the Battle of Britain was earlier. Possibbly North Africa too,
         | but that's more debatable.
        
       | shawn_w wrote:
       | When did CNN get a paywall?
        
         | bcks wrote:
         | A month ago. https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/01/media/cnn-launch-
         | digital-subs...
        
       | yuxt wrote:
       | In the late 1980s, I went on an expedition along Kazakhstan's
       | eastern shore of the Caspian Sea. One of our stops was supposed
       | to be a fishing village, but when we got there, it was completely
       | empty. Hundreds of mud huts sat abandoned as everyone had just
       | disappeared. In one of the yards, a camel was still there. It
       | felt haunting, like walking through a ghost town. The strangest
       | part? There was no sea anywhere nearby! The Caspian had dried up
       | so quickly that people had to leave their homes behind because
       | they couldn't live there anymore.
        
         | Self-Perfection wrote:
         | I think your expedition was actually along Aral sea. That is
         | dried.
         | 
         | Caspian sea is rather stable.
        
           | yuxt wrote:
           | The Volga Hydroelectric Station, located on the Volga River,
           | directly impacts the Caspian Sea. The Volga River, Europe's
           | longest, flows into the Caspian Sea and contributes about 80%
           | of its freshwater inflow. The construction of the Volga
           | Hydroelectric Station and other dams along the river has
           | altered its natural flow, reducing the volume of water
           | reaching the Caspian Sea. This reduction has contributed to
           | the sea's declining water levels.
           | https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/150452/the-
           | caspian-...
        
             | Izikiel43 wrote:
             | Is that the dam from metro exodus?
        
       | abcd_f wrote:
       | Doesn't appear on the satellite view in Google Maps. Just water.
       | 
       | What's up with that?
       | 
       | https://maps.app.goo.gl/dr71WrLZ7G97E5br9?g_st=ic
        
         | Elfener wrote:
         | Interesting. It's not just the oil rig itself, the whole lake's
         | satellite view is the same blue colour, while other bodies of
         | water are more detailed.
        
           | pxeger1 wrote:
           | Oceans, plus I guess the Caspian Sea, don't get much
           | satellite coverage because no one (except militaries) wants
           | it enough. For the ocean, Google Maps uses bathymetry data to
           | synthesise shaded blue imagery. The Caspian in particular I
           | guess is such a uniform colour either because it's so shallow
           | that Google's shading algorithm doesn't shade it at all?
           | (Compare to the northwesternmost parts of the Adriatic Sea,
           | for example)
        
             | jcrawfordor wrote:
             | A big issue here too is the image stitching; aerial images
             | are registered for big tile maps based in part on feature
             | analysis of the edges and that just never works right for
             | images of the ocean (mostly you have waves, and they're in
             | different places in each image). Even if you register it
             | perfectly the waves ensure that the edges will still have
             | stitching artifacts. As a result the "false color" oceans
             | that Google Maps shows just look better than actual
             | imagery.
             | 
             | The "imagery" source for the oceans in Google Maps is (or
             | at least was) GEBCO, it's a global bathymetric dataset made
             | by registering depth sounding tracks from mostly commercial
             | vessels. I thought maybe GEBCO didn't cover the caspian sea
             | but it looks like it does for the last decade or so, but
             | admittedly it seems to be data from just one survey and
             | it's tagged as limited quality (at least in older versions
             | of the dataset), so maybe Google ignores it.
        
           | alephnerd wrote:
           | Products like Google Maps stitch satellite and aerial photos
           | together to make a cohesive image.
           | 
           | There's no reason to spend tens of thousands of dollars on
           | getting precise images in the middle of a sea or ocean from
           | Maxar so a low-res image is more than enough.
           | 
           | Also, most of the high-res images you see of regions on
           | Google Earth or Maps tends to come from aerial photography,
           | not satellites.
           | 
           | These products will also update the images every couple
           | months to years. For example, you could see the aftermath of
           | the Donetsk airport battle and Homs Siege in Google Maps in
           | 2014-15, but not anymore.
        
             | MichaelZuo wrote:
             | It's not a low-res image... because the oil rig city would
             | still be blurry but somewhat visible, it's a no-res image,
             | entirely generated with no connection to reality.
        
         | beejiu wrote:
         | There's historical imaging on Google Earth
         | https://earth.google.com/web/@40.24978465,50.87045099,-66.75...
        
           | wingworks wrote:
           | Weirdly time lapse mode has a clearer image of it.
        
         | photochemsyn wrote:
         | The issue of how the satellite data feed ends up censored is
         | pretty interesting. Here's the probable central issue:
         | 
         | > "While countries still reserve the right to withhold map
         | data, the number of state and private companies that sell
         | satellite images makes hiding the globe incredibly difficult.
         | At the same time, this also means that state or non-state
         | actors can beat private companies to the exclusive rights of a
         | satellite image, meaning they can partially censor the image
         | before others can license it."
         | 
         | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-21/why-large-parts-of-ea...
        
       | itronitron wrote:
       | They could call it "Wet Texas"
        
       | malomalsky wrote:
       | Motherbase from mgs5
        
         | wayvey wrote:
         | Came to say exactly that, similar vibe
        
       | freefaler wrote:
       | There is another very interesting field built over swamps and
       | lakes in Siberia where they built the rigs on artificial islands.
       | 
       | https://as2.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/01/99/42/41/1000_F_199424123_E5...
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samotlor_Field?useskin=vector
       | 
       | https://maps.app.goo.gl/nq28Ct4FLyBGx5eP8
       | 
       | It was deemed too strategically important and was not put on
       | maps.
        
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