[HN Gopher] Passport Photos
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Passport Photos
        
       Author : gaws
       Score  : 1454 points
       Date   : 2024-11-06 21:23 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (maxsiedentopf.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (maxsiedentopf.com)
        
       | meowster wrote:
       | I was expecting some kind of article about an issue with passport
       | photos or some kind of exploit, maybe photoshopping so it looks
       | like the person but fools automatic facial recognition...
       | 
       | but was pleasantly surprised instead.
        
       | throw03172019 wrote:
       | Thanks for the good laugh. Looks great!
        
         | ale42 wrote:
         | They're very funny indeed. I doubt they are AI-generated, they
         | would the best AI images I've ever seen. If they are, there
         | must be a lot of post-processing. But the artist being among
         | others a photographer, I imagine they're actual photos. See
         | other series on the website too, e.g.
         | https://maxsiedentopf.com/19-off-amelie-pichard/
        
           | throw03172019 wrote:
           | Thank you for the link!
        
       | kevinsync wrote:
       | The fish cursor is a delightful touch lol. I especially
       | appreciate not knowing where the anchor point is hahaha
        
         | pimlottc wrote:
         | I was confused why so many of the photos had a random fish it
         | them until I realized that was the cursor...
        
       | shrx wrote:
       | Hugged to death :(
        
         | accrual wrote:
         | Hug text: The website is temporarily unable to service your
         | request as it exceeded resource limit. Please try again later.
        
       | bravura wrote:
       | "Wear a tuxedo for your ID photos." - Glenn O'Brien (TV Party,
       | Downtown 81, the Style Guy)
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | I've always thought to go unkempt and unshaven.
         | 
         | This is so that I would be recognized from my passport if I was
         | detained for several months in a sketchy country.
        
           | chgs wrote:
           | It's odd, last time I went to the US they barely glanced at
           | my photo
        
             | telesilla wrote:
             | I believe the photo is encoded in the digital passport
             | contents and the computer will check your face in the
             | camera to see it matches. No human involved. Many countries
             | have automatic passport gates now using this method.
        
               | alexanderchr wrote:
               | If they already have your picture the agent will usually
               | know who you are before you have even handed over your
               | passport. The tech has gotten eerily good.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | A decade ago, I was sent for a two-month business trip to
           | China. I didn't have a valid passport (didn't need it within
           | EU/Schengen Area) and had to make one in a hurry. I went to
           | take my photo unkempt but freshly shaved. While in China, I
           | didn't bother shaving, but I did get myself a haircut, that
           | left me almost bald (communication mishap). One month in, I
           | had to spend a weekend in Hong Kong to renew the work visa.
           | On my way back, I happily handed my passport to the border
           | control officer, and then spent terrifying 15 minutes trying
           | to convince him, his colleague and then his superior, that
           | the clean-shaved unkempt person in the photo and the near-
           | bald, bearded person in front of them, are in fact the same
           | person.
        
             | jll29 wrote:
             | That's hillarious. Any chance you remember what you said to
             | the Chinese hairdresser versus what you should have said to
             | protect fellow HNers from such a mishap?
             | 
             | Xiang Wang Chang Yi Yang Duan  Qing Ba Hu Zi Gua Gan Jing
             | Wo Xiang Yao Bi Jiao Duan De  Tu De Xiang Ge Ying Er De Pi
             | Gu  ?
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | I just gesticulated wildly towards my head while making
               | the "scissors" hand sign and loudly and slowly saying
               | "HAIRCUT". I have no idea how that was misconstrued.
        
               | garaetjjte wrote:
               | Huh? That also happened to you?
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | No, I was being facetious hoping people wouldn't look at
               | the username :P
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | When I've needed haircuts in China, I've always had
               | someone take me to a barber. Problem solved.
               | 
               | In one case, I was walking in a shopping area, someone
               | approached me looking to sell souvenir artwork, I
               | explained that while I didn't need that I was looking for
               | a haircut, and she offered to take me to a barber
               | provided I bought a picture. Everybody wins.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | I thought myself to be smart, so with help of Google
               | Translate, I found the Chinese characters that were
               | supposed to spell "3 cm"[0]. I copied them down, and in
               | the barbershop, I proudly showed them to the barber, who
               | nodded and invited me to the chair. The guy was stellar,
               | but halfway through the cutting it dawned on me something
               | is wrong. Turns out, what I thought was "cm" was actually
               | spelling "mm"!
               | 
               | He would've likely double-checked with me if I tried to
               | spell this out at the shop[1], but apparently I came
               | across as someone who really knew what they want, coming
               | in confidently with the order already precisely written
               | in Chinese and all.
               | 
               | Lesson learned. I still think the idea was good, and I'd
               | still go for giving explicit length (it's a natural fit,
               | as it translates to cutting head numbers for the electric
               | hair cutters). I'd just triple-check it next time, and
               | not act like I have it all figured out.
               | 
               | --
               | 
               | [0] - Or thereabouts; I'm sure about the unit, but the
               | exact number might've been something else between 2 and
               | 6.
               | 
               | [1] - The barber didn't know English, but knew the metric
               | system and arabic numerals, so we've confirmed the
               | misunderstanding with pen and paper.
        
             | BLKNSLVR wrote:
             | Could you have turned your face upside down?
             | 
             | (or hold the passport photo upside down)
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | I may or may not have handed it upside down;
               | unfortunately, passports have other features around the
               | photo that help the guard know the officially correct
               | orientation...
        
               | philsnow wrote:
               | The brain has specific face-recognition machinery that
               | mostly only works with face-up faces. It can be easier to
               | objectively decide whether two photographs are of the
               | same person if they are presented upside-down or
               | sideways.
        
             | iJohnDoe wrote:
             | That's hilarious. Thanks for sharing.
        
             | wodenokoto wrote:
             | I had a similar experience where I had grown my beard and
             | cut my hair since getting my passport - not over month, but
             | years. I had trouble in Taiwan, and a manager was called.
             | Looked at me for two seconds and said "Europeans", and they
             | let me through.
        
           | fader wrote:
           | As Erma Bombeck said, "when you look like your passport
           | photo, it's time to go home".
        
           | sph wrote:
           | I was thinking the neutral-to-serious face requirement in
           | passport photos is so that you can be easily recognised when
           | you're being detained at the airport and asked to wait for 3
           | hours in an interrogation room. That's exactly what one would
           | look like.
        
             | lazide wrote:
             | Or, like another poster said an Irish passport officer said
             | - 'dour'.
        
       | teractiveodular wrote:
       | Hugged to death, here's an archive copy: https://archive.is/uPMjd
        
       | vallode wrote:
       | Oh! Something I took a part in on HN. That's a first. Almost
       | everything there was practical. Highly recommend checking out all
       | of Max's work, beaming with creativity.
        
         | swyx wrote:
         | how did you come to take part?
        
           | vallode wrote:
           | It was fairly random, someone in my network had mentioned
           | that Max was looking for people to take part in the project
           | and I reached out. I was given a date and time slot and that
           | was that.
        
         | edm0nd wrote:
         | So its not mentioned on the post but is this your actual
         | passport photo that was accepted and used and you have it on
         | your physical passport right now?
        
           | vallode wrote:
           | I'm not sure anyone tried to actually use it as a passport
           | photo. Would have been a great touch though.
        
             | consf wrote:
             | It's actually a really exciting thought...
        
             | latexr wrote:
             | Would that even work? Are you not in Europe, where passport
             | photos are taken on location?
        
               | lobochrome wrote:
               | In Germany and Japan, you bring one. It wouldn't be an
               | issue if it fit the biometric spec.
        
               | Hamuko wrote:
               | I'm in Europe and mine sure was not taken on location.
               | Had it done in a mall, and they sent it electronically to
               | the police.
        
               | jhugo wrote:
               | In both of the two European countries I've been involved
               | in a passport application for, we had to bring photos
               | along, which we got taken by a photographer in a copy
               | store. There was no certification of the photographer
               | involved that I'm aware of, just the usual list of
               | requirements for the photo that they had to follow.
        
               | croisillon wrote:
               | from the 3 or 4 docs i've had made within 10 years
               | requiring this specification, only once was the pic taken
               | on location
        
               | tauntz wrote:
               | > where passport photos are taken on location
               | 
               | Europe is not a single thing and that statement is not
               | correct.
               | 
               | I'm in Estonia (which is in the EU) and you can either
               | submit a picture online or take the picture on location.
        
               | philsnow wrote:
               | An oddball question, but do you have that government
               | document/card that also works as a smartcard to create
               | digital signatures? Does that get used typically in
               | interactions with the government (or maybe even
               | businesses)?
        
               | willyt wrote:
               | In Britain you just upload a digital photo so it would
               | work here.
        
               | nuancebydefault wrote:
               | How odd, there's no verification if it is your photo
        
               | taejo wrote:
               | Don't know about Britain but the US also allows passport
               | renewals by mail, so they can't check the photo against
               | your face but they presumably can check it against your
               | previous passport photo.
        
           | kookamamie wrote:
           | While this may have not been done, I don't see a reason why
           | these wouldn't have been accepted. Source: I am a certified
           | passport photographer.
        
             | ramonverse wrote:
             | how do you get certified to be a passport photographer?
        
               | scrozier wrote:
               | In the US, anyone can take the photo, including yourself.
        
               | 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
               | I did this. It's surprisingly hard to find a solid white
               | background and get uniform lighting at home. Took many
               | shots.
        
               | mikepurvis wrote:
               | Fifteen years ago I did my own in Canada, and just wrote
               | my own name and phone number on the back as at the
               | "photographer". They gave me the hairy eyeball at the
               | passport office though but let it slide since the pics
               | did meet the requirements.
               | 
               | After that I got them done at the local framing shop.
        
               | chgs wrote:
               | In the U.K. people used to go to a booth, but nowadays
               | you just get a well lit white wall and take a selfie on
               | your phone.
        
       | xoxxala wrote:
       | Clever usurpation of expectations _and_ artistic.
        
       | eric_h wrote:
       | this really makes me regret doing nothing like this when I
       | recently had my passport photos taken.
        
         | nickjj wrote:
         | I had my photo taken by an employee at the post office where
         | they submit the application. It would have been fun to walk in
         | and start duct taping myself to the wall without saying a word.
        
         | extraduder_ire wrote:
         | Here (ireland), you can take your own photo with a phone or
         | something. Though, they explicitly say "no selfies". I'm glad
         | of this, since I can try multiple times to get a good one.
         | Also, you normally get them in the post in two to three days.
         | 
         | I'll likely try something like this next time I renew.
        
       | cbsks wrote:
       | > Can I smile in my passport photo?
       | 
       | > Yes. Make sure your eyes are open and your mouth is closed in
       | your photo.
       | 
       | https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/how-app...
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | > Neutral expression (not smiling, laughing or frowning)
         | 
         | https://www.passports.gov.au/PhotoGuidelines
        
           | redundantly wrote:
           | Just got passports for my kids recently. My 14-year old was
           | scowling in his photo. They accepted it.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | They know that nobody standing in front of a customs
             | officer that is looking at their photo will actually be
             | smiling. So having it neutral or even scowling as your
             | experience will be much more likely to match. /s
        
           | awesome_dude wrote:
           | But but but - I have resting happy face!
        
           | scrollaway wrote:
           | Some countries (definitely France) are implementing automatic
           | passport photo checks. Those checks are not at all rigorous
           | concerning smiles. I managed to get a photo I'm actually
           | proud of in my new ID!
        
             | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
             | They _do_ have problems with facial hair, though, IME.
        
         | wasabi991011 wrote:
         | Yet on the same page, they have
         | 
         | > Pose and Expression: Have a neutral facial expression with
         | both eyes open and mouth closed.
         | 
         | In my view, neutral and smiling are incompatible, but I guess
         | that is up to interpretation.
        
         | crmd wrote:
         | My last Irish passport photo was rejected for smiling (I'm
         | American born). The embassy lady said your expression is
         | supposed to be "dour".
        
         | chiph wrote:
         | I'm an American. I smile at everyone.
        
           | OJFord wrote:
           | You have a great day now you're so welcome.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | Ok, so the premise doesn't _entirely_ work in your specific
         | country.
         | 
         | It does in mine: https://www.gov.uk/photos-for-passports
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | lol I thought these were AI generated at some point too just
       | because of how silly they are
        
         | avgDev wrote:
         | Organic + cage free is how I like my photos.
        
       | alimoeeny wrote:
       | Don't forget to scroll down the page. The girl with the wine
       | glasses is my favorite. And the guy taped to the wall.
        
       | jonny_eh wrote:
       | All the fun stuff is happening out of frame.
        
       | rconti wrote:
       | It's a lot of "fun" trying to get acceptable photos. Last week I
       | went to my local American Automobile Association (AAA) office to
       | get an International Driver's Permit (IDP). It's just a
       | translation of your license, which is valid for 1 year. I had to
       | take 2 passport-sized photos with me, which I did.
       | 
       | But I was told they wouldn't be accepted because I had long hair
       | and a beard in them, but short hair and no beard now. That's
       | absurd, because it's the same photo used in both of my passports,
       | and there's no requirement that you don't alter your appearance
       | from your passport photo. Somehow border guards can crack the
       | code.
       | 
       | Amusingly, my California driver's license shows short hair and no
       | beard, but the AAA person wasn't even looking at my CA license at
       | the time. What happens if I grow long hair and a beard before I
       | travel? Was he just trying to upsell me on a $9.99 photo?
       | 
       | We had a hell of a time getting the UK passport authorities to
       | accept the photos we sent in for her passport; they recommend
       | getting your photos taken at an "official" UK location where the
       | digital photos are identified by a code you send in. Well, we
       | happened to be traveling through Australia during this timeframe,
       | so we were able to stop at an Australian Post Office, which
       | supposedly had the same "digital" system, but instead of a code
       | to send to the UK authorities, they handed us printed photos and
       | a web link. Thankfully I was able to use the web link to download
       | the photo and upload it to the UK site, where it was approved
       | almost immediately, and the new passport arrived back at our home
       | before we returned from our trip. But there's no user-obvious
       | criteria that was being used to reject the SEVERAL rounds of
       | photos we had sent to the UK earlier.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | > But I was told they wouldn't be accepted because
         | 
         | yeah, and I would have expected nothing less. from my personal
         | experience, the photos were required to be recent. just based
         | on your having visited a barber would signal to me that the
         | photos were not recent. even if you visited the barber while
         | you waited for the 1-Hour Photo guy to finish, a logical person
         | would realize this was not going to work out well
        
           | rconti wrote:
           | The criteria says "Two original passport pictures" ; it does
           | not say "recent".
           | 
           | Regardless, the photos are recent (<1yr) and my driver's
           | license has a 5 year validity and passports 10 year validity.
           | As an illogical person, I sometimes change my appearance over
           | a given 10 year span.
           | 
           | When I renew my US passport by mail, they don't actually know
           | what I look like at the time of the renewal.
        
             | devilbunny wrote:
             | IDP's are only valid for a short period of time. I suspect
             | that money-grubbing may play a role, but the purpose of
             | them is to let you identify yourself to police in a
             | language (especially an alphabet) you don't speak. So
             | perhaps it's something that clerk had heard some horror
             | story about and was giving good advice.
        
               | rconti wrote:
               | Yes, I suspect the 1 year validity of the IDP plays a
               | part here. The gentleman who said my photo wouldn't be
               | accepted was front desk (and, apparently, photo-taking)
               | staff; he wasn't even the person creating the IDP. I
               | agree with you that I suspect he was trying to be
               | helpful.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | New photos: $9.99
               | 
               | Fake dressup beard: $0.99
               | 
               | I know which one I'd choose.
        
               | devilbunny wrote:
               | $9 isn't worth being detained while on an international
               | trip in a place where the police don't speak your
               | language because they don't believe your photo is you.
               | Actually, it's less expensive than the last set of
               | passport photos I had made, so maybe I'll just go to AAA
               | next time.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | Especially since sometimes 'detained' can mean 'beaten'.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | comparing the validity of existing documents is moving the
             | goal posts and pretty dishonest to the conversation.
             | 
             | you're applying for a new passport. to be shocked that at a
             | minimum the pictures would look like you at the time of the
             | application is pretty...I don't even know what word to use
             | here. there's a way to make dealing with gov't agencies
             | simple and as painless as possible, and then there's this.
        
               | rconti wrote:
               | The point that identity photos often look different from
               | the person being identified isn't remotely dishonest to
               | the conversation. It's the entire point, in fact: Does
               | this actual human person look like this person depicted
               | in this photo? That's why I bought up the passport photo
               | situation to compare it to.
               | 
               | If you'll re-read more closely, you'll see that I was not
               | applying for a new passport. I also wasn't working with a
               | government agency.
               | 
               | By the way, it was simple and painless. I was told to
               | bring photos if I had them; otherwise they could be done
               | on-site for $9.99. I opened up my desk drawer on my way
               | out of the house, and I happened to have photos. So I
               | brought photos. I was told they were not acceptable, so I
               | accepted the offer of an on-site photo, which took about
               | 90 seconds, paid my fee, and went on my way. There was
               | nothing difficult about it. I would not have saved myself
               | any hassle had I left the photos in my drawer.
               | 
               | It's unclear to me why you have gone out of your way to
               | misunderstand or misinterpret the situation, other than
               | in a misguided attempt to be antagonistic, but it's not
               | working.
        
               | devilbunny wrote:
               | > It's unclear to me why you have gone out of your way to
               | misunderstand or misinterpret the situation
               | 
               | It's the internet. Even HN isn't immune to the Eternal
               | September.
               | 
               | I still think Reddit is useful, sometimes, and I've got
               | karma to burn for years, so I find it hilarious when my
               | comments get downvoted into hell over some trivial
               | issues. Since I don't care about imaginary internet
               | points except to make sure that people can read what I
               | post (I don't want to fall into the well of negativity on
               | that), I don't delete the ones that get buried.
               | 
               | That poster you replied to is doing the kind of crap you
               | see on the Reddit front page subs. They're almost all
               | trash. You get upvoted for hivemind, you get downvoted
               | for going against the grain. Regardless of the merit of
               | the comment.
               | 
               | Hell, I've been downvoted here for my very milquetoast
               | comment that maybe the clerk was trying to help you keep
               | out of trouble in a country where you really need an IDP
               | (different alphabet, e.g.). You can't downvote before you
               | have a bunch of points here, and I almost never do - if
               | you're wrong I'll try to help you fix it, and if it's
               | just a disagreement then... that's life? You pretty much
               | have to explicitly be an unprovoked major asshole or
               | advocate straight-up genocide to make me downvote you.
        
           | brianleb wrote:
           | So I actually shave my beard every time I get a haircut (so,
           | let's say every 8 weeks).
           | 
           | What does 'recent' mean, since you have already acknowledged
           | that temporal recency is irrelevant? When am I traveling?
           | What's accurate to my current appearance? What if I started a
           | cancer treatment that renders me unable to grow a beard?
           | 
           | Your flippant reply ignores reality, and these aren't even
           | edge cases.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | If you are applying for a new passport where you are
             | needing these photos, the common sense logic from the
             | person accepting/rejecting them would be do the photos look
             | like the person in front of them. No? Reject. Yes? Accept.
             | The flow chart is pretty simple.
             | 
             | The frequency of your grooming habits _AFTER_ receiving a
             | passport are irrelevant to the actual approval of a
             | passport. This doesn 't need to be hard.
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | > do the photos look like the person in front of them
               | 
               | To what ridiculous extent do you take that, though? You
               | must be wearing the same clothes? You must be made-up in
               | the exact same way? I think it's pretty clear that the
               | test should be "is it obvious that the person in the
               | photo is the same as the person in front of you" and
               | somebody with a beard does _look like_ themself, even
               | when they shave that beard.
               | 
               | Of course, this raises other interesting questions: is it
               | OK for you to use a photo of your identical twin?
        
         | technothrasher wrote:
         | > But I was told they wouldn't be accepted
         | 
         | Huh. Last time I got an IDP from AAA, I don't think the lady
         | behind the desk even really looked at the photo. She just took
         | my $20, copied the info from my app to my permit, stapled one
         | of the photos to the permit, and handed it to me. It was like
         | less than three minutes total.
        
         | dwroberts wrote:
         | The criteria for UK stuff is normally really clear?
         | https://www.gov.uk/photos-for-passports
         | 
         | Can see how it would be annoying if they don't explain which
         | criteria is being violated though
        
           | rconti wrote:
           | Yeah, the criteria is clear, but do everything you can to
           | meet it, and the online submission will just say the photo
           | quality is "poor" (unlikely to be approved) and not explain
           | what's poor about it. I spent a lot of time juggling aspects
           | of the photo itself as well as of the scan (DPI, compression,
           | etc) and nothing seemed to make a difference.
        
             | IanCal wrote:
             | Anecdata from the other side, I've done a few passports for
             | family now and it gives immediate ratings and we've not had
             | any issue at all.
        
               | rjh29 wrote:
               | I took a phone selfie against a white wall and it was
               | accepted fine.
        
             | Macha wrote:
             | My prior passport photo was taken with the Irish Passport
             | office's manual "send in photos and someone decides if it's
             | good enough" process they had at the time. As I always wore
             | glasses, I wore them in my photo too, which given they
             | didn't obscure the face, the manual check indicated they
             | were fine.
             | 
             | For my latest renewal, they've moved to an app based
             | process which just flat out rejects any with my glasses on
             | because the prescription is so strong it distorts the
             | outline of my face (at least that's my best guess, as the
             | app claims compatibility with glasses.
             | 
             | Anyway, since renewing the passport to one without glasses
             | in my passport photo, I've found I much more frequently get
             | rejected at automated passport gates, often needing to take
             | my glasses off so I match the passport photo better.
        
         | ethbr1 wrote:
         | > _But I was told they wouldn 't be accepted because I had long
         | hair and a beard in them, but short hair and no beard now._
         | 
         | Tell them your religion doesn't permit beardless photos, so you
         | grew one for the photo.
         | 
         | When they ask what religion, pick one with beards.
         | 
         | It's AAA, not the police -- the person behind the desk will
         | shrug, now with a reason not to care, and create your IDP.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | > When they ask what religion, pick one with beards.
           | 
           | I just love this sentence.
        
             | donw wrote:
             | Gotta cover all the bases and tell them you're Jewslamic
             | Rastodox Sikhamish.
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/pastafarian-who-
             | fought-...
        
             | philsnow wrote:
             | "I can't tell you, it's one with beards and also secrets"
        
               | viridian wrote:
               | "Right, I'm just going to jot down Eastern Orthodoxy
               | then, move along."
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | My newest Comcast cancellation reason is telling them I'm
               | converting to the Amish faith, and could I talk to them
               | for a moment about it...
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | A lot of companies seem to have "policies" that are grounded
           | in nothing. Airlines are especially bad about this, thinking
           | they know better than you whether you'll be able to get
           | through immigration at the destination. For whatever reason,
           | airline policies about whether you can get on the plane are
           | completely unrelated to the destination countries' policies
           | about whether you can be allowed in.
           | 
           | The _most_ egregious such policy that comes to mind was when
           | Philippine Airlines refused to give me a boarding pass for a
           | flight to China unless I filled out a health declaration form
           | that was guaranteed to expire before my flight arrived.
           | 
           | There was of course no obstacle to me filling out (a new copy
           | of) the form on arrival in China. As was necessarily the
           | case, given that the pre-flight declaration _expired during
           | the flight_.
        
             | foomar wrote:
             | I think the rationale behind this is that many countries
             | will fine the airline around $10,000 for each passenger
             | that doesn't have the right immigration documentation and
             | has to be deported. So there is a reason they err on the
             | side of caution for them at the expense of making your life
             | harder
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | It's not the denied entry pipeline that a lot of
               | countries worry about. Those have always been the
               | airline's problem.
               | 
               | It's the lawful refugee claims they might be forced to
               | consider/accept if a claimant can make landfall.
               | 
               | And their dislike of citizens using minimal ID to
               | lawfully gain entry home.
               | 
               | So they extort the airlines to fulfill their wishes on
               | foreign soil.
        
             | consf wrote:
             | Why enforce something that's bound to become irrelevant by
             | the time it's needed?
        
               | taneq wrote:
               | To avert liability, usually.
        
             | walthamstow wrote:
             | These kind of policies are usually grounded by the one
             | dickhead who tried to do something completely stupid that
             | they never anticipated, now they have to have a policy for
             | it.
        
               | taneq wrote:
               | Every dumb rule and warning label has a story attached.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > These kind of policies are usually grounded by the one
               | dickhead who tried to do something completely stupid that
               | they never anticipated, now they have to have a policy
               | for it.
               | 
               | How do you think that could create a policy of "before
               | boarding the plane, you must fill out some invalid
               | paperwork which will be available, and valid, after you
               | disembark"? There is literally zero consequence for not
               | doing it, and also literally zero benefit for doing it.
        
             | xattt wrote:
             | > A lot of companies seem to have "policies" that are
             | grounded in nothing.
             | 
             | A lot of this comes down to people not wanting to stick
             | their head out to change process and groupthink.
             | 
             | I witnessed an individual in a "worker bee" capacity trying
             | to suggest a small-but-significant change on a client-
             | facing first-contact form. They went through their CoC to
             | get the message out, but got the "that's nice, dear"
             | treatment.
             | 
             | Said "worker bee" moved into a different department some
             | time later, and all of a sudden, it was such a great idea
             | that no one had thought about.
        
         | mr_toad wrote:
         | > but instead of a code to send to the UK authorities, they
         | handed us printed photos and a web link.
         | 
         | I had a similar experience with getting UK photos at a chemist,
         | they said they could do digital photos and didn't. So I went to
         | the Photo Warehouse and it was smooth sailing. I guess the
         | specialist photo outfits are more likely to know what they're
         | doing.
        
         | TreeInBuxton wrote:
         | In my recent experience renewing my UK passport, I found I was
         | able to submit the image regardless of the complaining it gave,
         | I just had to write a note as to why I thought the image did in
         | fact meet their criteria.
         | 
         | In my case, whatever detection software they used seemed to
         | think my eyes were closed, which they were not.
         | 
         | I just used a normal picture taken on a phone, against a plain
         | white wall, accepted with no issues.
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | I made my passport photos on a phone camera against a white
         | wall, stitched them together with other family members and
         | printed them on a 4x6 photo at CVS.
         | 
         | I think it cost something like $0.68 for 2 photos, each of
         | which had all four of our photos plus 2 extra spots.
        
         | avgDev wrote:
         | The IDP feels like such a scam. I have to get it every year and
         | it is so annoying.
        
           | csomar wrote:
           | It doesn't feel like a scam. It IS a scam. You were able to
           | get a 3 year valid one but now they reduced it to 1 year. If
           | my permit is valid for 10 years, so should the IDP. But then
           | it'd cost x10 if they were to keep the same profit. So
           | suddenly asking for close to $200 will _feel_ outrageous.
           | Just shows how corruption can be worse than a monetary loss.
        
             | YZF wrote:
             | You don't even need it most of the time. Almost every
             | country will just accept a driver's license from most other
             | countries as long as it's fairly standard and has a section
             | in English. I've driven in dozens of countries with my
             | local driver's license.
        
               | jhugo wrote:
               | Yeah, I don't bother any more, but it has happened a
               | couple of times to me in Europe that a rental car company
               | asked for it and then refused to rent without it. In both
               | cases I just walked over to a different company's desk
               | and they didn't ask.
        
               | avgDev wrote:
               | I've had several companies refuse rental and ask for IDP.
               | $20 to avoid hassles is worth it for me.
        
           | jhugo wrote:
           | There are some websites that will issue a translation of your
           | license that looks very similar to the "official" IDP.
           | Depending on where you're going it might be sufficient.
           | (Generally works fine for avoiding police "coffee money"
           | shakedowns in Southeast Asia, for example.)
        
         | gregoryl wrote:
         | Your first mistake was relying on Aus Post to do anything
         | correctly. They cna barely deliver packages.
        
         | laurencerowe wrote:
         | I found the digital upload thing easier when I last renewed my
         | UK passport since you can just take a photo with your phone and
         | get instant feedback.
        
           | rconti wrote:
           | It's been awhile, but probably my mistake was scanning an
           | actual high quality passport photo with a flatbed scanner
           | rather than just halfassing it with a phone camera, since
           | that seems to have worked so much better for everyone here!
        
         | YZF wrote:
         | Unless you are traveling to some weird place almost everywhere
         | will accept a standard driver's license if it has English on
         | it.
        
           | agurk wrote:
           | Two 'weird' places I have visited this year that required an
           | IDP were Japan and Taiwan.
        
           | williamdclt wrote:
           | Vietnam famously doesn't. You can rent a motorbike without
           | showing any sort of license, but in the most touristic areas
           | (eg Ha Giang loop) the police picks out foreigners to check
           | and get their bribe.
           | 
           | And I have a vague remembrance (take with a whole rock of
           | salt) that foreigners from many countries technically
           | _cannot_ legally drive there even with an IDP, because
           | there's 2 competing IDP standards or something like that. But
           | I'd guess you'd be fine
        
             | jhugo wrote:
             | Yeah, the actual law is irrelevant most of the time, since
             | it's just a shakedown. I did encounter one cop who knew
             | about the 2 different IDP conventions and was able to
             | extract the coffee money even if you had one. If you don't
             | want to pay, offering to accompany them to the station to
             | pay there (and get a receipt) usually works, especially if
             | you're out in the countryside, since they don't want to
             | give up on the chance to stop a bunch of other people. If
             | you do choose to pay, they'll usually share your license
             | plate on a WhatsApp group with the other local police if
             | you ask them to, so you won't get hassled again for the
             | rest of the day.
        
               | jon-wood wrote:
               | Not sure why but I'm quite tickled by the existence of
               | WhatsApp groups to coordinate who's paid their bribe for
               | the day. I think it's the thought of breaking the law
               | being done in an orderly way.
        
               | Macha wrote:
               | You may enjoy the second image in this article, of
               | looters forming an orderly queue and making sure not to
               | obstruct the pavement while doing so:
               | 
               | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023924/London-
               | riot...
               | 
               | Interestingly, the article complains about the looters
               | using BBM to communicate, which is a bit of a blast from
               | the past.
        
           | rconti wrote:
           | Japan.
        
         | consf wrote:
         | It seems absurd that the requirements can vary so much and yet
         | remain so vague
        
         | koliber wrote:
         | Public service message: in many countries, the IDP,
         | International Driving Permit, is not needed.
         | 
         | Since it is only a translation, it carries no official weight.
         | 
         | Many countries that use the Latin alphabet only need a
         | translation of the drivers license (ie IDP) if the alphabet on
         | the driver's license is not Latin.
         | 
         | Check online before you travel.
         | 
         | This can save you a trip to the AAA, a few bucks, and an
         | encounter with a clerk who questions the validity of your
         | beard.
        
           | bux93 wrote:
           | Tell that to Mr. Prawo Jazdy.
           | https://www.irishtimes.com/news/phantom-pole-haunts-garda-
           | at...
        
             | taneq wrote:
             | Ask them for directions to the Forest of Skund. ;)
        
           | pmontra wrote:
           | As an example, Australia wants one. I can't remember if
           | Geneva or Vienna type or both. Last time I've been there was
           | 2019 and my country uses the Latin alphabet too (it was
           | invented here.) The official document is the country's of
           | origin driving license but basically owning a valid IDP
           | states that your country and the destination country are
           | signatories of one of those two conventions and agree to let
           | their own citizens drive in both countries with no need of
           | further tests.
           | 
           | Some countries recognize some foreign driving licenses, at
           | least for a while, without the need of the IDP. The USA is
           | one of them but it has been a long time since I drove a car
           | there so it could have changed or be regulated state by state
           | and not at federal level. The USA is a signatory of the 1949
           | Geneva convention.
        
             | chgs wrote:
             | I've hired cars in Austrailia without an IDP, just my
             | British driving license.
        
           | rconti wrote:
           | Yeah; I'm a USian, and this one is for Japan which "requires"
           | it. I also got one for Italy a bunch of years ago, as I was
           | told the car rental agencies would not rent me a car without
           | one.
           | 
           | Otherwise I've never bothered, and I've rented cars in a half
           | dozen countries in Europe, Australia, NZ....
        
         | unit149 wrote:
         | Geneva Convention which established IDPs in the post-war period
         | ran parallel to measures implemented under the Marshall Plan.
         | The regulation of road signs and establishing protocols for
         | uniformity within the EU and 101 member states involved in its
         | ratification paved the way for the re industrialization of the
         | EU.
         | 
         | https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/MTDSG/Volume%20I/Cha...
        
       | stevenhubertron wrote:
       | This is the web I miss.
        
       | ldargin wrote:
       | I took my own passport photo with my mirrorless camera, and a
       | whiteboard as the background. It took a while to get it right,
       | with no bright spots on the background and now shadows. It was
       | accepted.
        
         | aimor wrote:
         | A tip for 10 years from now: take the picture with diffuse
         | backlighting and you can easily blow out the background
         | completely. For example, a sheer curtain in front of an outdoor
         | window is just about perfect.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | Ten years from now, hopefully you won't have to be taking and
           | printing your own passport photos. I haven't done that in _at
           | least_ a decade, maybe two, in Europe. I go to the office
           | that handles it and there's a machine there that takes your
           | photo.
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | The system here is simple, I just paid the 9,90 for photo,
             | it is directly uploaded to the police and I am texted a
             | code. I log on their system, put in the code. And pay.
             | Passport is delivered to pickup location near me in week or
             | so... Only issue is the signature and fingerprints, have to
             | reserve time early or wait in line.
        
               | latexr wrote:
               | Here it's simpler, the same machines handles everything.
               | You make the appointment, go there, and done. Then it's
               | just the pick up.
        
               | desas wrote:
               | Here it's simpler, you fill out the form on your phone,
               | take a picture on your phone and then the passport
               | arrives in the post. Then you eventually sign it after a
               | bored border official passes comment.
        
             | taejo wrote:
             | Why go to the office when you can take a selfie with your
             | phone and order your passport online?
        
       | frompdx wrote:
       | Great project. It reminds me of the SNL sketch (can't remember
       | which) where the character says "I like to keep a piece of sliced
       | ham folded up in my pocket just so I have my own little secret."
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | https://snltranscripts.jt.org/06/06pporch.phtml
         | 
         | No video that I could find.
        
           | frompdx wrote:
           | Yep, that's the sketch I'm thinking of.
        
       | jftuga wrote:
       | tangent:
       | 
       | I wrote this: https://github.com/jftuga/photo_id_resizer
       | This program is used to resize large photo ID images. When image
       | resizing occurs, a content aware image resizing library is used
       | with its face detection algorithm to avoid face deformation.
        
         | albumen wrote:
         | honest question: why is this needed? I would have thought that
         | when downsizing an image, most programs would (should?) use
         | bicubic interpolation to give a pretty accurate downsampled
         | version of the image.
        
           | jftuga wrote:
           | https://github.com/esimov/caire?tab=readme-ov-file#face-
           | dete...
           | 
           | This shows an example of what can happen when you perform a
           | basic resizing of faces. You will notice the distortion when
           | this library is not used. When I had to resize 40,0000
           | photos, I noticed better visual outcomes when using this
           | library for my testing set of photos.
        
         | jval43 wrote:
         | A screenshot or example would help. Interesting idea.
        
       | major505 wrote:
       | Well lhat is a weid website. Can unseet that anytime soon.
        
       | pfist wrote:
       | What an amusing experiment! I laughed out loud many times. A
       | novel way to explore the boundaries of something so stringent.
        
       | bze12 wrote:
       | Reminds me of those portraits in the Haunted Mansion ride that
       | expand when you go down the elevator.
       | 
       | https://hauntedmansion.fandom.com/wiki/Stretching_Room
        
       | jtheory wrote:
       | I especially appreciate this on the assumption that it will be
       | pulled in as input for AI training.
        
       | TacticalCoder wrote:
       | My actual passport photo is like that. We were on vacation, sunny
       | place, warm, no pant, only a boxer. And only nature around us, no
       | white wall. So I put on a nice shirt, was still in my boxer, and
       | wife held a white towel behind my face while someone took a
       | picture.
       | 
       | On the original pic you could somehow see that it was a towel and
       | not a white wall but some photoshopping took care of that.
       | 
       | Why a shirt while in underwear? A shirt looks "serious". And real
       | people like that. They like a shirt, it looks serious. As to why
       | the boxer underwear: for the same reason as in TFA.
       | 
       | Next time I'll show up with the complete picture and cut it in
       | front of the person asking me for the picture.
        
       | stogot wrote:
       | I lost it at the duct hands
        
       | daft_pink wrote:
       | Where can we see/buy this artwork?
        
       | djcoding wrote:
       | I once used a website https://makepassportphoto.com to create
       | such photos for my family
        
       | endofreach wrote:
       | This looks like what my experience taking a passport photo with a
       | 8 month old mini human felt like.
        
         | k1kingy wrote:
         | Oh boy do I know the feeling. We live overseas and both our
         | kids were born here. So basically the first thing we had to do
         | was get them their passports. Trying to get a 2-4 week old baby
         | to open their eyes and look somewhat at the camera was... an
         | experience.
         | 
         | Tip: Swaddle the baby, lie it on top of a plain light piece of
         | fabric (we used one of my work shirts) and click the camera 100
         | times.
         | 
         | Having said that though, I'm starting to think an 8 month old
         | would be even harder based on the fact that they move :D
        
         | consf wrote:
         | I can only imagine the challenge!
        
       | consf wrote:
       | The rules (for passport photos) are designed to strip away any
       | trace of individuality, which feels ironic for a document that's
       | so personal
        
         | Ekaros wrote:
         | On other hand it kinda is document of subjectdom. You are
         | ultimately subject of particular nation.
        
       | matthberg wrote:
       | Looking at other art by him, his latest piece _Democracy_
       | features three figures in voting booths, one with their pants
       | pulled down. Sure feels timely. He wrote a nice blurb with it
       | too, I love it when artists include some of their thoughts in
       | portfolios rather than just the photos alone (though this piece
       | was a sculpture).
       | 
       | https://maxsiedentopf.com/democracy/
        
         | ivolimmen wrote:
         | I actually came to the comments to post the same.
        
         | tijtij wrote:
         | Art imitating life
         | 
         | "Rebelse Belg trekt broek naar beneden in stemhokje"
         | 
         | Translation: Rebellious Belgian pulls down pants in voting
         | booth
         | 
         | https://www.ad.nl/buitenland/belg-trekt-broek-uit-in-stemhok...
        
       | vincnetas wrote:
       | If it's a "print" do not add changing images. Now we have on
       | first slot "Passport Photos" story with plinking photos, which
       | makes me wanna click X ASAP...
        
       | indus wrote:
       | This is what the internet was in 1998, before hustlers invented
       | SEO.
        
       | hcfman wrote:
       | Integrate artwork with clearview. Check.
        
       | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
       | Now I want to see more 'extreme' passport photos -- one taken
       | from the top of a skyscraper, in the middle of a rollercoaster
       | ride, etc.
        
       | kweks wrote:
       | When I got French nationality, I spent 6 months growing an
       | impressive old-style moustache just for the ID photo. it's the
       | little things that count.
        
         | swah wrote:
         | If one goes with a fake (but not obviously fake) moustache,
         | would they question?
        
           | lazide wrote:
           | What is your definition of fake - can be pulled off? Not your
           | own hair?
           | 
           | Lots of options here.
        
             | moffkalast wrote:
             | What if it's your own hair, but glued back on haha
        
               | Temporary_31337 wrote:
               | Where from and is it curly?
        
               | Moru wrote:
               | It doesn't really matter. If you are not recognizable,
               | it's not valid. That is the whole point of a photo-ID the
               | photo has to be a good likeness with you. Glad the GP met
               | friendly people that let him get away with it but don't
               | count on it working for ever :-)
        
               | ygra wrote:
               | The driver's license is not an ID, though. Besides, at
               | least in Germany you get it and then it never changes. So
               | the photo is pretty much always outdated.
        
               | MobiusHorizons wrote:
               | It is definitely an ID in some countries (notably the US,
               | where it is by far the most common).
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | In most US states, your drivers license is the only photo
               | ID most people have.
        
               | philsnow wrote:
               | I was going to make a quip about how that's because,
               | compared to Europe, almost nobody in the States has
               | bothered to get a passport.. but apparently the
               | percentage of Statesians who have passports has
               | skyrocketed in the last 35 years from ~3% to 51%:
               | https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/Z9qF8/6/
        
               | generj wrote:
               | For any US Citizens renewing a US passport: if you want a
               | national ID that fits in your wallet, you can pay $30 and
               | get a passport card. They are a no brainer upgrade to a
               | passport application or renewal IMHO. Cost is a bit
               | higher due to a $35 application fee if you are getting
               | them separate from a passport book but I think they are
               | still worth it.
               | 
               | They can be used for land and sea entry to the US. They
               | serve as ID on domestic flights and for I9 employment
               | verification.
               | 
               | Many countries technically require you to always travel
               | with national ID or require it for traveling on trains
               | (since they have national IDs, unlike the US). But
               | passports are bulky and American travelers have been
               | taught to leave them in safes or buried in bags where
               | they are hard to steal. A passport card can be kept on
               | hand 24/7 in case a national ID is needed.
               | 
               | In the event you lose your actual passport after
               | traveling abroad, they would save a ton of time at the
               | embassy since you have a form of passport already on you.
               | Compare this to the panicked alternative of trying to get
               | a replacement with a photocopy of your passport (which
               | standard travel advice says you should have for this
               | reason) and somehow getting a birth certificate.
        
               | curmudgeon22 wrote:
               | Very much an id in Canada too.
        
               | yencabulator wrote:
               | My European driver's license expires in 2046, but the
               | fine print says if my appearance substantially changes,
               | or the police requires it, I must get a new one.
        
               | gsich wrote:
               | It acts as an ID in most cases.
        
               | Moru wrote:
               | Germany is doing away with the eternal drivers licenses
               | in stages. Better look that up before you loose yours.
               | Wifes license runs out in January next year, eep.
        
               | bragr wrote:
               | >Wifes license runs out in January next year, eep
               | 
               | Genuinely asking, how does that qualify as "eep"? Is
               | renewing onerous or expensive in Germany? I ask because
               | in the US, renewing a license is usually cheap and done
               | quickly online, except for about once a decade, they
               | require a new photo (which itself doesn't take too long
               | with an appointment).
        
               | Moru wrote:
               | It was totally forgotten. I thought it was done already
               | but we forgot to order it so thanks for the reminder :-)
               | 
               | We don't live in Germany so she has to get a swedish one
               | now anyway.
               | 
               | Yes, it's been online since as long as I can remember.
               | 25-ish years probably.
        
               | dkga wrote:
               | It is in some countries
        
               | eloisant wrote:
               | Most photo id are valid for 10 years. Your appearance can
               | change in 10 years.
        
         | PyWoody wrote:
         | I grew an absurd handlebar mustache for my driver license
         | photo. It never fails to get a double-take and a laugh.
        
           | buu700 wrote:
           | Related: https://youtu.be/IoM2Cwt2cVQ
        
             | inanutshellus wrote:
             | Relatably related: https://youtu.be/Yh9O9ETuF_0?t=119
             | 
             | (T.J. Miller driver's license photo routine)
        
           | burningChrome wrote:
           | In college my GF loved to give me hickeys (against my will)
           | on my neck before I would go out at the bar because she
           | thought it would dissuade women from flirting with me.
           | 
           | After we had a particularly bad fight, after things cooled
           | down and we were making up, she put a huge one on my neck.
           | Like it looked like someone wrenched me with a baseball bat.
           | Next day it was really bruised and looked horrible. I had to
           | get my DL renewed and they took the pic with the bruise and
           | all.
           | 
           | I got the same thing, bouncers and every time I had to
           | present somewhere would get the "Ohhhhhhh bro, that is BAD!"
           | which would then lead to other people clamoring to see it.
        
       | mrweasel wrote:
       | There's at least a few of these which may not be acceptable as a
       | passport photo, due to the top of the shoulders not being
       | visible.
        
       | yzydserd wrote:
       | Could do a similar project for Zoom/Teams. I often wonder what's
       | just out of view.
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | https://scontent-zrh1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/455099012...
         | 
         | Or maybe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RQxD4Ff7dY#t=48s ?
        
       | nbeleski wrote:
       | As someone who has actively written algorithms for passport
       | security verifications, including photo strict requirements and
       | validation, this post really struck a chord with me.
       | 
       | Awesome work!
        
         | blantonl wrote:
         | Interesting. I have a friend who has been completely unable to
         | upload a photo for his passport renewal online because he has a
         | lazy eye.
        
         | amichal wrote:
         | I expected the layout, head size, expression etc rules to be
         | more or less standard across countries. More than a decade a go
         | our dual citizen baby got both passports at once and I thought
         | I could use one of the US duplicates for the other country...
         | an hour of fiddly standards checking, measuring, reprinting,
         | cropping and I got something that would pass on the application
         | but got a scolding that it was not _quite_ right.
        
       | _joel wrote:
       | Wanna buy any pegs^H^H^H^H toast Dave?
       | https://maxsiedentopf.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Passpor...
        
       | robertlagrant wrote:
       | It's very fun, but I don't think it's challenging any rules.
        
       | ambyra wrote:
       | Would be great to tape the whole picture inside the passport. I'm
       | sure the passport officials could use a good chuckle. ... or
       | you'll go to jail.
        
       | JSDevOps wrote:
       | Genius lol.
        
       | paran0ia wrote:
       | Love it
        
       | paran0ia wrote:
       | I want to have a passport photo like this for myself
        
       | huesatbri wrote:
       | calm.jpg
        
       | ramassnel1 wrote:
       | Damn this is fire
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I have the feeling that this should be presented in an animated
       | way.
       | 
       | Like, you see somebody's passport, then it zooms out, the
       | passport disappears and you see the entire picture.
        
         | vestrigi wrote:
         | Nice idea, maybe even tied to the scroll wheel.
         | 
         | I'd love to see this in a book that has simple white pages with
         | little cutouts showing only the passport picture of the next
         | page. Then you turn that page around and see the full picture.
        
       | andrewshadura wrote:
       | I once had a conversation with a friend about passport photos. In
       | particular, how much makeup are you allowed to wear? And, how
       | much makeup if you're a man? Next day I went and got myself a
       | driving license with a photo wearing black lipstick. The photo
       | lady was unhappy but was unable to find a rule to justify sending
       | me home.
        
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