[HN Gopher] Gladiators in ancient Anatolia lived to entertain th...
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Gladiators in ancient Anatolia lived to entertain the masses
Author : diodorus
Score : 60 points
Date : 2024-11-05 02:33 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (archaeology.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (archaeology.org)
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| > _A pair of mounted gladiators featured in the initial
| spectacle_
|
| Anyone have primary sources for this? Diodorus?
| iLoveOncall wrote:
| I don't understand why the title got edited by OP from "How
| gladiators in ancient Anatolia lived to entertain the masses" to
| remove the "How". It just turns it into an obvious statement and
| doesn't convey what the article is about, which is about their
| life, training, etc.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| HN automatically does that.
| jajko wrote:
| What would be the reason? In most titles / statements I can
| come up with it changes the meaning, and saving 4 chars ain't
| good enough reason, better would be a/an/the.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| Apparently those kinds of titles are considered
| "clickbaity". I agree that this particular edit makes
| things confusing.
| fuzzfactor wrote:
| I think there was a rapidly rising tide of auto-generated
| blogspam "How-To" articles at one point, that can be
| filtered in a fairly specifc way.
| remoquete wrote:
| You can re-edit it to preserve the How though.
| HPsquared wrote:
| I wonder what the statistics look like on these auto
| adjustments.
| krisoft wrote:
| > It just turns it into an obvious statement and doesn't convey
| what the article is about, which is about their life, training,
| etc.
|
| It's not an obvious statement.
|
| It tells us that the gladiators aimed to entertain the masses.
| It could have been that they didn't care about their audience
| (and only cared about money, or saving their lives). Or it
| could be that they had contempt for their audience (if they for
| example were forced to fight against their will). It could also
| have been that they lived to entertain the elites and not the
| masses. Or lived to entertain other gladiators, or please the
| gods or any other alternatives.
| apples_oranges wrote:
| This looks like professional wrestling to me. Way to go,
| Anatolians!
| cptnapalm wrote:
| More than you'd think! I recall reading about touring
| gladiators. Rome might have been the big city, but audiences
| get tired of seeing the same gladiators all the time, so they'd
| go on tour. Now if you have a highly successful gladiator and
| you're in Podunkus, Asia Minor, would you risk losing your meal
| ticket to some hairy local? No. You fix the match. After the
| tour, you head back to Rome for the triumphant return and
| people are excited to see your guy again.
| fuzzfactor wrote:
| I would say they were dying to entertain the masses too.
|
| And then during the thrilling final act, it often came true.
| PittleyDunkin wrote:
| > The most common perception of gladiatorial games is that they
| were violent and gruesome because someone always died," says
| archaeologist R. R. R. Smith of the University of Oxford, who
| directs excavations at the site of Aphrodisias. "This isn't
| true. In gladiatorial games, most of the time, both
| participants left the arena on their feet. The games weren't
| about killing, but about the excitement of two men fighting,
| about showcasing skill, discipline, endurance, strength,
| tactics, and different weapons." In the rare cases when
| gladiators were killed or condemned to death, they had been
| trained to die theatrically to add to the performance's impact.
| tokai wrote:
| Yeah, would rather have been a gladiator than a charioteer.
| GJim wrote:
| Yet many of us bikers long to compete in the Isle of Man
| TT.
|
| Here is an example of what a lap of the circuit looks like
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31RZ5wU-Fg0
|
| Riding in the TT is like climbing Everest. It's the
| ultimate challenge. Typically, there is at _least_ one
| death during racing each year. Often many more.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man_TT
| wil421 wrote:
| What does this have to do with chariots or am I missing
| some context?
| whartung wrote:
| Just supposing that being a chariot driver was more
| dangerous and lethal than being a Gladiator.
|
| The Isle of Man motorcycle races (with a death toll of
| 1-2% per year) are, both today, and historically, one of
| the most dangerous motor vehicle events in the world.
|
| IoM takes both novices and veterans. Yet, they all sign
| up anyway. It's a thrilling spectacle to be sure.
| WalterBright wrote:
| I thought IoM vetted the contestants to keep out inept
| riders.
| whartung wrote:
| That's the whole point. IoM is an equal opportunity
| killer.
|
| The "novices" are those new to the course, not new to
| racing. They're skilled racers, proven, successful. But
| stuff happens, and the course can be unforgiving.
|
| David Jefferies was a lap record holding, TT winning
| champion when he collided with a wall in 2003.
| GJim wrote:
| The point you missed..... is that like chariot racing
| once was, the TT is a stupidly dangerous thing to do, yet
| it's a race many will willingly risk their lives to
| compete in for the challenge.
|
| ergo, I'd much rather be a charioteer (a modern TT
| racer), than a comparatively safe gladiator (a modern
| boxer). :-)
| frandroid wrote:
| So, WWE more than war-like fighting
| PittleyDunkin wrote:
| I think MMA would be a more apt comparison; the fighting
| itself was very real, if still entertainment.
| tokai wrote:
| With how expensive payouts to the stable of a dead
| gladiator could be[0], it seems very likely to me that a
| lot of the matches were at least coordinated, if not
| outright planned.
|
| [0] "But if he were injured or killed, the lease would
| convert to a sale and the gladiator's full cost would
| have to be paid, a sum that might be some 50 times higher
| than the lease price."
| https://www.jstor.org/stable/30038038
| Mistletoe wrote:
| By nature they are violent because they are fighting. I would
| not like these odds.
|
| > There have been works that estimate the actual percentage
| of deaths; the highest I've heard is 1/5 matches resulting in
| a death, quite often accidentally. That was Mary Beard's
| estimate. Many other authors have estimate somewhere between
| 1/5 and 1/8 matches resulting in deaths.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/12k1r6/how_f.
| ..
| trhway wrote:
| That about the odds to be killed in a year for a Russian
| volunteer signing up to go to Ukraine. They do it for just
| $3k/month - for many Russians it is a great money and thus
| they risk their lives. Giving the limited options, it may
| as well be that many gladiators were happy to fight in the
| arena instead of dying from hunger and exhaustion in say
| quarry.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Given all the training done with gladiators, if every match
| resulted in a death, it would likely be unsustainable.
|
| Imagine if Formula 1 racing was a demolition derby.
| DamnYuppie wrote:
| To be honest when I think of Gladiators I think in terms of
| WWE wrestling more than I do MMA. As it is meant to be more
| of a spectacle.
| clown_strike wrote:
| Looks more like Medieval Times to me. WWE is just a bunch
| of performative groping.
|
| Even Cirque du Soleil carries more risk of death. The
| corpse removal process is seamless enough that the show
| continues.
| brendanfay wrote:
| Just like me :(
| gosub100 wrote:
| This is a semi-related topic from a video I recently watched
| during medieval sieges: "What motivated a person to be first to
| climb up a ladder attacking a fortress?"
|
| https://youtu.be/bwM0gP1p0xw?si=rt_lkLF5j-Mx3Gc8
| sabujp wrote:
| this is the one that I ended up watching a few days ago after
| the one above came into my feed :
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmat8xK9raM
| kgwgk wrote:
| > a video I recently watched during medieval sieges
|
| Not so recently then.
| fuzzfactor wrote:
| Still waiting for the sequel, seems to be getting a bit
| overdue . . .
| gosub100 wrote:
| Lol. I should never edit before I have my coffee.
| rambojohnson wrote:
| duh
| _DeadFred_ wrote:
| I hate how politically jaded I have become reading anything
| related to modern archeology.
|
| When first introducing Ephesus (why not add '(a Greek founded and
| speaking city)'. I mean they are talking about Roman cultural
| introduction to the existing culture, saying 'Anatolia' doesn't
| give me context of the culture being introduced to Roman ways.
| There was no 'Anatolian' culture.
|
| Why say 'Greek-style athletic contests' when they were just
| actual greek athletic contests held largely in Greek founded,
| Greek speaking cities? With so much modern agenda filtering
| archaeology I can't help but see erasure that much of Anatolia
| was Greek or greek founded. I just see a misleading implication
| that these cities hosting 'greek style contests' weren't, you
| know, culturally Greeks. It is crazy that there are 14 instances
| of Anatolia and the only time Greek occurs is 'Greek style'.
| ilayn wrote:
| Anatolia is a Greek word. Read some. It will give you
| confidence about yourself so you don't seek confirmation from
| every piece.
| _DeadFred_ wrote:
| And your point other than a personal attack on my feelings of
| self worth (in direct violation of not just the rules but the
| ethos of Hacker News)?
|
| Anatolia is a location, not a culture. This is an article on
| cultural changes. Using Anatolia, a large region of land, as
| a descriptor for culture seems weird an needlessly imprecise
| in an archeological/anthropological sense for an article
| talking about an impact on cultures (what cultures?). Why
| would someone use 'Greek-style athletic contests' when 'greek
| athletic contests' is a more accurate/direct/correct
| description?
|
| It is totally valid to say 'I don't like the current trend of
| twisting words/obfuscating, it sucks and makes me defensive
| reading the article, and the use of this less descriptive
| subsubstition and zero direct mention triggered that
| distrust'. Or are you saying I should just brainlessly
| consume everything I read online and to do otherwise is
| somehow not manly?
| ilayn wrote:
| You should read more carefully to start with before
| accusing everything you see that does not fit into your
| narrative.
|
| requiring n time the word Greek until you are satisfied is
| a you problem. I don't care enough about you to attack you
| personally. If you read more on these you would not get
| stuck in these accounting problems.
| biorach wrote:
| I don't see the need to ascribe anything to an agenda. This is
| an article for popular consumption. They are focusing on the
| exciting bits (the gladiator stuff) and skimping on the wider
| cultural background. All pretty standard for popular science
| articles.
| _DeadFred_ wrote:
| How does that necesitate using the less descriptive 'Greek-
| style athletic contests' than just saying Greek athletic
| contests? Wouldn't it be better to use the more familiar
| Greek or identifier in the case of popular consumption?
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(page generated 2024-11-07 23:01 UTC)