[HN Gopher] 19th-Century 'Toy Book' Used Science to Prove That G...
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       19th-Century 'Toy Book' Used Science to Prove That Ghosts Were an
       Illusion
        
       Author : prismatic
       Score  : 62 points
       Date   : 2024-11-05 02:27 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
        
       | ccppurcell wrote:
       | This article gets the colours wrong. Do the red figure example
       | for yourself. If you do it correctly you will clearly see cyan,
       | which is the opposite of red in RGB . It has nothing to do with
       | the "primary colours" of blue and yellow mixing. Basic science
       | facepalm from Smithsonian it seems.
        
         | tgv wrote:
         | The title is also wrong. It's more "... to show that mediums
         | could fool you easily."
        
         | hnbad wrote:
         | It's a common mistake thanks to people learning in school that
         | the "primary colors" are red, yellow and blue but the
         | explanation is mostly right otherwise: you see cyan because
         | it's a mix of blue and _green_ , i.e. what you get when you
         | subtract red from white light.
         | 
         | Of course human visual perception is a bit more complex than
         | that but the primary mistake here is mixing up RGB and RYB.
         | Quirks of color perception then result in referring to the
         | resulting color as "green" when it clearly contains blue.
        
           | jhbadger wrote:
           | Also, the whole idea that "green" and "blue" are different
           | things is culturally determined -- many languages either use
           | one word that contains the shades English speakers call
           | "blue" and "green" or did so historically before introducing
           | separate words after they were influenced by English or other
           | languages that make the distinction.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue%E2%80%93green_distinction.
           | ..
        
             | KTibow wrote:
             | Doesn't the eye have distinct perceptors for green and
             | blue, or am I missing something?
        
               | jhbadger wrote:
               | No. There are three types of cone cells (S, M, and L)
               | that are most responsive to various wavelengths of light,
               | but as the picture shows, most "colors" are within the
               | high and low ranges of more than one type of cone.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell
        
             | jhbadger wrote:
             | For those who downvoted this, did you read the wikipedia
             | entry? Seriously, the idea that many languages don't make a
             | blue/green distinction is a fact.
        
               | jon_richards wrote:
               | The classic example is Homer's "Wine-dark sea", but it
               | gets a lot more complicated than that https://en.wikipedi
               | a.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_...
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | I think there is more to it than a simple "facepalm". In the
         | modern RGB model, green and blue are primary colors, and mixed
         | together, you get cyan, the opposite of red. So the explanation
         | is generally correct, the only thing wrong is that yellow is
         | considered a primary color instead of green.
         | 
         | But look here, and remember the book was published in 1864:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_colors
         | 
         | Look at the color wheels of that period and earlier, especially
         | this one: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Color_star-
         | en_(terti...
         | 
         | And you see that red is the opposite of green. Why not cyan? I
         | don't know. I guess cyan simply wasn't a well recognized color
         | back then, maybe cyan was called green (a blueish green). Maybe
         | our perception changed with the availability of modern pigments
         | and screens.
         | 
         | As for the color you see when trying the illusion, it is even
         | more interesting because it is actually an impossible color!
         | [1] It doesn't correspond to a wavelength of light or a
         | combination thereof, you can only perceive it through an
         | illusion like this one. If we follow the Wikipedia article, and
         | considering that the afterimage appears on a dark background
         | that would be "stygian cyan". Spooky! Again, the theory was
         | probably unknown in 1864.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color
        
           | fmbb wrote:
           | > Why not cyan? I don't know.
           | 
           | Because tradition, and the pigments they used. Red, yellow,
           | blue worked great.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_color
        
       | dukeofdoom wrote:
       | Is there a youtube channel that reviews rare books
        
         | miah_ wrote:
         | Several, I have enjoyed the content from
         | https://www.youtube.com/@tomwayling
        
       | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
       | > _Prove That Ghosts Were Simply an Illusion_
       | 
       | This is false. The only thing it proves is that ghosts CAN BE an
       | illusion. Failure to recognize the difference between the two is
       | why such books haven't stopped people believing in ghosts.
        
         | RobertRoberts wrote:
         | You are missing a critical point. Before this, there was likely
         | no proof that people could share or rely on to question if
         | _any_ ghost could be an illusion.
         | 
         | This is very important to future critical thinking because this
         | gave people evidence to back up being skeptical for future
         | illusions that they can't immediately explain.
        
           | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
           | I agree that it's important to advance knowledge of what's
           | possible, but that is very different from proving a negative.
        
         | mistermann wrote:
         | Wouldn't the failure to recognize be more like the cause of why
         | so many people believe that it is a knowable fact that there
         | are no ghosts (and various other "supernatural" phenomena)?
        
           | picture wrote:
           | Are any facts knowable? Besides the fact that something
           | exists, in some shape or form, at this particular moment,
           | that allows the thought about this to happen.
        
           | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
           | Also that, yes. But I do see a space where the authors (and
           | subsequent article writers) recognizing and acknowledging the
           | limitations of proof would help them frame their arguments in
           | such a way that they ultimately convince more people of not
           | having seen actual ghosts.
        
         | redundantly wrote:
         | >> Prove That Ghosts Were Simply an Illusion
         | 
         | > This is false.
         | 
         | It's not false, that's just the headline.
         | 
         | The book targeted a very specific illusion that con artists
         | would use to scam people. That did prove the ghosts being
         | presented as real were in fact illusions.
        
           | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
           | > _It 's not false, that's just the headline_
           | 
           | It is false, and it's also not just the headline.
           | 
           | > _That did prove the ghosts being presented as real were on
           | fact illusions._
           | 
           | Again, this is false. It proved only that illusory facsimiles
           | of ghosts are possible. You cannot prove that someone didn't
           | see a ghost just because there are non-ghost mechanisms for
           | people to think they're seeing ghosts. That's not how proving
           | things works.
        
         | nuancebydefault wrote:
         | I've never seen of a convincing proof that anything exists nor
         | that anything does not exist.
         | 
         | 'prove' simply needs not to be taken literally in this context.
         | You can replace it here by 'make a suggestion that'
        
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