[HN Gopher] Tracker Beeper (2022)
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       Tracker Beeper (2022)
        
       Author : gaws
       Score  : 364 points
       Date   : 2024-11-06 03:21 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (berthub.eu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (berthub.eu)
        
       | hifikuno wrote:
       | This is interesting. I always new the big tech companies had
       | trackers all over the place, but I didn't realize it was so bad.
       | 
       | Would be interesting to run this with and without ad blockers and
       | other filter lists to see how good they do at actually protecting
       | you from tracking.
        
         | tracerbulletx wrote:
         | Presumably it's google analytics. Some ad blockers will block
         | google analytics. Also Google Analytics claims to not do cross
         | site tracking or build user profiles, whether you believe that
         | is up to you, but it's incredibly commonly used by website
         | owners to track their own traffic.
        
         | ErigmolCt wrote:
         | This kind of setup could reveal which blockers are best at
         | keeping data
        
       | Zeetah wrote:
       | This reminds me of the Atari 8 bit computers making sound when
       | data was being transferred to the floppy drive and the cassette.
       | 
       | The TRS-80 flashed an asterisk in the upper right corner of the
       | display.
       | 
       | I wish this was an option with modern computers if nothing else,
       | for old times sake.
        
       | java-man wrote:
       | And all this data is stored permanently - to be analyzed by
       | numerous marketing departments and (future|fascist) governments.
        
         | RedComet wrote:
         | (current|democratic) governments
        
           | notpushkin wrote:
           | As well as (current|fascist) governments!
        
           | java-man wrote:
           | welcome to November 6, 2024
        
         | downboots wrote:
         | The future is here
        
       | tills13 wrote:
       | Devil's advocate but it's disingenuous to say "when you click x
       | it sends your click to Google"
       | 
       | Sure, it's sending that info to Google's servers, in the same way
       | it's sending your click to your ISP. But that data is reasonably
       | only accessible by the people who instrumented that tracking.
       | Businesses -- and governments -- install these tools on their
       | websites so they can better understand how people use them.
        
         | calrain wrote:
         | >> But that data is reasonably only accessible by the people
         | who instrumented that tracking.
         | 
         | ... and Google... and the people they sell aggregated traffic
         | data to...
         | 
         | CloudFlare (e.g. NSA [joke!]) also gets a truckload of data
         | from each web call, and your ISP, and the hosts of any <script>
         | tags, and the image hosts, and all the engagement tracking
         | plugins in your site...
         | 
         | The list is endless
        
           | notpushkin wrote:
           | Yeah, it's not like Google spins up a separate DB for you
           | when you sign up for Analytics - everything's in one pile,
           | ready to be mined for that sweet sweet user data. (That's the
           | reason there's such a generous free tier for website owners,
           | of course.)
        
         | Lammy wrote:
         | > But that data is reasonably only accessible by the people who
         | instrumented that tracking
         | 
         | No way -- the network itself is always listening:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
         | 
         | I bet it's possible to map every single human's social
         | connections given enough time to correlate their network
         | activity, e.g. a message-send on your phone that causes a
         | notification to be delivered to your friend's phone. No need to
         | break TLS or do anything other than encourage people to make as
         | many network connections as possible all the time, record the
         | fact that a given IP address has sent or received data, and
         | wait days/weeks/years for enough correlations to filter out
         | from the unbelievable volume of noise.
         | 
         | TLS-all-the-things actually makes this problem worse because
         | now every single connection _has_ to leave my network to hit
         | some """trusted""" origin /Cloudflare/whatever server instead
         | of just being cached at my gateway.
        
       | throwaway888abc wrote:
       | It would be also interesting stream of sounds for Android by
       | Google :-)
       | 
       | upvoted
        
       | ned99 wrote:
       | This is interesting little project, would love to see a counter
       | somewhere of how many requests i've sent by the end of the day,
       | definitely would be in the thousands! It's insane how 0 privacy,
       | we humans have, given WE created this, every word we type, every
       | word we speak, to some point is tracked
        
         | rockskon wrote:
         | I tire of the notion that if we don't have the technical acumen
         | to remove technical changes that provide data to third parties
         | and know the implications of what it means that we opted
         | ourselves into no privacy.
         | 
         | As opposed to the reality of these changes being relentlessly
         | forced on us with often opaque privacy implications.
         | 
         | You are blaming a blind man for not seeing what people are
         | taking from him.
         | 
         | The very framing that we've opted ourselves into a privacy-less
         | world is a lawyer's shoehorned logic applied to modern
         | technology. It's a tortured conception of the world.
        
           | varenc wrote:
           | I interpreted the GP comment very differently. I took it to
           | just mean that "we" as "humanity as a whole" have constructed
           | the no privacy world we inhabit. Which seems quite true. I
           | don't get any sense of casting blame on individuals for
           | lacking the technical acumen to secure their own data. I
           | absolutely agree with your sentiment though.
        
             | card_zero wrote:
             | Humans aren't a cohesive team acting with a common goal, so
             | we do a lot of things to other humans that would be crazy
             | if those other humans counted as "ourselves" and we were a
             | team, such as trade sanctions, closed borders, chemical
             | warfare, resource competition, Coldplay, and of course
             | greenhouse gas emissions. But we've never been a team, and
             | it's an implausible expectation.
        
         | jay_kyburz wrote:
         | On my Gmail tab, the unlock origin icon tells me it has blocked
         | over 10k requests, and I'm fairly sure I rebooted my computer
         | yesterday.
        
         | ErigmolCt wrote:
         | I think it would be eye-opening to see just how many requests
         | we're actually sending out in a day
        
       | goodlinks wrote:
       | For me the two things that show this well are:
       | 
       | 1. Quick and easy: Install pihole and add every reasonable list
       | you can find of tracker urls to block. And just watch the live
       | log.
       | 
       | 2. Takes a bit more time: install opnsense or pfsense. Block dns
       | out of your network (but allow pihole) and watch the live log of
       | blocked dns requests. Assuming everythong has been told to use
       | pihole
       | 
       | 3 (bonus round). A bit more time again: create vlans or similar
       | put the devices that you have checked every do not call home
       | option on and block their internet access. And watch the live
       | logs of blocked traffic
       | 
       | Its quite a depressing process and not sure its worth maintaing
       | as a live setup, but its certainly an eye opener.
       | 
       | Each one of these steps blocks an order of magnitude less stuff,
       | but is interesting whats in each bucket. Pihole gets hits at an
       | astounding rate
        
         | lokimedes wrote:
         | I tried this exact setup with a combination of Ubiquiti and
         | pihole config. It is really unmaintainable and I missed a
         | verification / audit layer, especially for verifying that the
         | Chinese grass/vacuum robots didn't leak data, etc.
         | 
         | It would be a full time job, and then some, when the kids' apps
         | didn't work due to my block lists...
         | 
         | Since then I have surrendered and now use a custom Cloudflare
         | DNS endpoint.
        
           | goodlinks wrote:
           | Fwiw ubiquity devices are some of the "set every setting to
           | never call home but still did" devices. I cant remember if
           | they also tried to bypass the configured dns.
           | 
           | :(
        
             | lokimedes wrote:
             | Yeah, I have noticed that I may have bought into a bit too
             | much "slick Apple UX" syndrome with my Ubiquiti
             | "conversion", but it was sooo pretty.
        
               | goodlinks wrote:
               | I still use it but keep the devices on a vlan that cannot
               | dial out.
               | 
               | And use the software not an appliance to manage it.
               | 
               | Its not just the slick ui, its the devices themselves,
               | and how well it all works. I got fed up of wifi at home
               | not being as good as at work. And unifi are cheap
               | compared to some corporate grade stuff
        
       | smolder wrote:
       | This would be like the old school computing environment where you
       | get an audible beep every time something is written to your hard
       | disk. People noticed abusive code much more easily then.
        
         | ErigmolCt wrote:
         | Having those beeps would make data activity so much more
         | transparent, just like the old days
        
         | Lammy wrote:
         | Me every time I buy yet another Noctua fan
         | https://i.imgur.com/XAEtm4P.png
        
         | billpg wrote:
         | There's been times I've seen the HDD light blinking and I've
         | thought to myself "You're running remote-desktop right now. Why
         | do you need the hard disk so much?"
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | I absolutely hate the combined location/search bar. I get the
       | autofill of previous locations visited, but sending every single
       | key press is not something I'm interested in at all. Is this a
       | Chrome only feature or any browser that has default search engine
       | set to Google?
        
         | uzyn wrote:
         | I would assume it's most browsers. You can see Google
         | suggestions popping under the address bar as you type on many
         | browsers: Safari, Firefox, etc.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Some people can, but I've disabled that shite. Also, I don't
           | use Chrome, so it would still be interesting if the default
           | search was not Google in Chrome to see if Chrome still sends
           | the keystrokes to Googs. It's one of those things that I've
           | always hoped Chrome keylogging was just a conspiracy theory,
           | but never cared to look one way or the other. There are some
           | things that even for science I just don't have the time, so
           | hoping others will/do.
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | Install Firefox, add search bar back to the menu, disable URL
         | bar search, job's a good'un.
        
           | willtemperley wrote:
           | Firefox phones home every time it is opened.
        
             | yupyupyups wrote:
             | Install Librewolf or Mullvad Browser. Both are based on
             | Firefox and shouldn't phone home.
        
             | Lio wrote:
             | Tye key question is why.
             | 
             | For example, if it phones home to check it's up to date
             | then I'm OK with that.
             | 
             | If it's for advertising then I'm not OK with it.
        
               | Lammy wrote:
               | No, the reason doesn't matter. Seemingly-benign things
               | like update checks, NTP syncs, and weather apps still
               | create metadata about the fact that you're awake and
               | using the computer plus your physical location. Not even
               | VPN avoids this.
        
               | talldayo wrote:
               | So... we should all protest any form of device that
               | features DNS caching or OCSP?
        
             | yoavm wrote:
             | To do what exactly?
        
             | robin_reala wrote:
             | Toggling everything off in "Data Collection and Use" in
             | settings doesn't change this?
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | Chrome's combined search + address bar seems like a fantastic
       | data source for reverse search warrants:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_search_warrant
       | 
       | Imagine a reverse warrant for any person who has searched
       | "torproject.or" in the process of navigating to torproject.org
        
       | Kapura wrote:
       | A friend of mine in university 10+ years ago wrote a simple
       | utility to feed web request data bytestreams directly to audio
       | output, essentially creating static noise when webpages were
       | doing things. He said it led him to some interesting discoveries.
        
         | anilakar wrote:
         | You only need to AM demodulate it and you basically have a
         | classic radar warning receiver for the internet age :-)
        
           | danhau wrote:
           | You mean interpret the noise as an AM signal and demodulate
           | it? I wonder what that would sound like.
        
       | uzyn wrote:
       | Search suggestions are hardly ever useful, but cause a massive
       | privacy leak.
       | 
       | They are shipped on by default for most browsers (Chrome,
       | Firefox, Safari), but at lease they can be disabled (search for
       | "search suggestions" in config).
        
         | Ferret7446 wrote:
         | Sounds like an anecdote. I find search suggestions useful as it
         | saves typing a lot of the time.
        
       | JimmyWilliams1 wrote:
       | Great information
        
       | cloudking wrote:
       | If you really care about this kind of stuff, a simple AdGuard or
       | Pi-hole setup can block all these requests across your network.
        
         | talldayo wrote:
         | I've always found it funny how is Android being better at
         | blocking Google requests than iOS is. You'd think Apple
         | wouldn't be so willing to sell out their users for a sketchy
         | default, but apparently a captive userbase doesn't have much
         | say in the matter anyways.
        
           | albumen wrote:
           | Citation needed. This 2018 study [1] looks at google data
           | collection on android and iOS in various aspects, and
           | concludes that android devices send quite a bit more to
           | Google than iOS devices.
           | 
           | [1]: https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-
           | content/uploads/2018/08/DC...
        
             | talldayo wrote:
             | Android lets you control your phone's firewall completely.
             | iOS doesn't, case closed.
        
         | Lammy wrote:
         | You are technically correct, but one shouldn't have to be In
         | The Know to avoid this stuff. Computers should not be privacy-
         | adversarial by default.
         | 
         | This is the same mindset that shames people for their
         | "unhealthy food choices" when the most widely available, widely
         | affordable, and widely advertised food is sugary corn slop.
        
       | dentalperson wrote:
       | It would be mostly quiet (remember that humans only hear up to
       | ~20 kHz).
       | 
       | Sure, this is a joke today, but if we continue down our current
       | path, we would probably hit ultrasonic rates in the not too
       | distant future.
       | 
       | The video was fun and insightful to watch. Big fan of
       | sonification of computer processes. We can hear such a large and
       | important range of frequencies (more than the 'audible range'
       | because we hear impulses in the subsonic range as events) and it
       | works as a nice complementary in real time for an experience that
       | charts can't convey.
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | So true. Although I often prefer silence, the sounds my devices
         | make can be really nice. For example I open my Nextcloud app on
         | my phone and the drives in my server start rattling. I find it
         | soothing.
         | 
         | Reminds me of Picard lecturing a young engineer on how in the
         | old days they "were trained to detect some warp core
         | misalignment of .2 micron" (or something).
         | 
         | I understand that some astronomers listen to radio telescope
         | outputs and my car mechanic can often hear what's wrong in a
         | heartbeat.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | Back when HDDs were noisy, I could tell when my computer was
           | stressed, or about to crash, or hung, etc just from the drive
           | noise.
           | 
           | Similarly now with when my 3D printer is leveling, or about
           | to finish the print, or which part it's printing.
        
         | lynx23 wrote:
         | I talked to a scientist who works on sonificantion over a cofee
         | once. Whats interesting is, that they keep finding applications
         | where sonification is superior to visualisation. it boils down
         | to continuous monitoring being more efficient via an audio
         | channel, because humans are not really able to focus on a
         | monitor without occasional distractions. If you do the
         | sonification right, its also easier to detect subtle changes
         | over time.
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | For a second I thought this was a legislative proposal. If you
       | thought cookie banners were annoying, just wait!
        
       | SushiHippie wrote:
       | (2022)
       | 
       | Previous discussion:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32617787 - Tool beeps every
       | time data is sent to google - 108 comments - Aug 2022
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32549604 - Audible feedback
       | on just how much your browsing feeds into Google - 206 comments -
       | Aug 2022
        
       | killjoywashere wrote:
       | Ok, now, can you add a think sparkline graph down the left edge
       | of the page, either a whisker plot or a line graph, illustrating
       | the density? If the information becomes too dense, maybe spread
       | out to a spectrograph?
       | 
       | Interesting that the next thing down on HN right now is
       | https://www.titledrops.net/ which actually implements this near
       | the bottom of the page, just title drops instead of calls to
       | google.
        
       | theanonymousone wrote:
       | The year is 2022.
        
       | yosito wrote:
       | The Daily Mail site sounds exactly like I expected: a throwback
       | to my old dialup modem.
        
       | ErigmolCt wrote:
       | Hearing the actual frequency of data transfers to companies would
       | probably make people much more aware of the constant data flow
       | from their devices. And I think it would eventually start to
       | scare me
        
       | haolez wrote:
       | If you want to scare people, do it while Incognito. And repeat
       | the search bar suggestions while on it ;)
        
       | hcfman wrote:
       | Brilliant!
        
       | gloosx wrote:
       | This is awesome! I would like the same thing for Windows though,
       | but for every 1 GB of data sent to MS, Steve Ballmer would quote
       | one of his classics, like "Microsoft is not a monopoly" or
       | "Google's not a real company"
        
       | mnadkvlb wrote:
       | The name reminds me of the south park episode with trapper keeper
       | :)
       | 
       | was a crazy episode
        
       | Bluecobra wrote:
       | Reminds me a bit of the -a flag for snoop on Solaris in where you
       | can listen for packets on /dev/audio. I wonder if that ever made
       | it into tcpdump.
        
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